0:00

Wonder. A plus subscribers can binge new

0:02

seasons of Business Wars ad free

0:04

right now. Join Wonder He placed

0:06

in the Wonder He app or

0:08

on Apple podcasts. Twenty

0:21

fourteen Taylor Swift strides into a

0:23

boardroom of the Big Machine offices

0:25

in Nashville. The head of a

0:28

record label, Scott or Shadow sits

0:30

at a large meeting table with

0:32

other executives. They're here to discuss

0:34

the strategy for Swift's fifth album,

0:36

which she's just finished recording. but

0:39

More Shudder has some notes. Taylor,

0:42

thanks for flying in. Swift nods

0:44

graciously. She recently moved from Nashville

0:46

to New York City full time.

0:49

Bullshit. It continues. So.

0:51

He turned in some really great songs

0:54

I mean bravo, but I couldn't help

0:56

but feel something was missing. Swift.

0:59

Listens expectantly. Okay,

1:02

what are you thinking? What?

1:04

We really need is some country. Can you

1:06

give us three songs that can play on

1:08

country radio Dj? Love you but they're not

1:11

going to play this pop stuff. But.

1:13

Swift is not interested in that

1:16

she's done with country music. Listen.

1:19

Scott I read or of you have read

1:21

that really stuck in my mind. Read.

1:23

With Swift's last album. It

1:26

was a pop country hit that

1:28

immediately sold four million copies. But.

1:30

Even with that success. Swift.

1:33

Obsessive li tracks the criticism

1:35

she received. Their of

1:37

you Said read wasn't cohesive on this

1:39

album. I want them to sound like they

1:41

all belong together. A son will stick

1:43

out like a sore thumb. Or

1:46

shudder and the other executives exchange

1:48

looks. Swift is not backing

1:51

down. She's. Twenty five,

1:53

Now not the teenager she was when

1:55

she first sign. Morshed.

1:57

A tries another tack. Well.

1:59

okay Why don't we country

2:01

up what you've already got? Let's

2:03

add a fiddle and steal guitar solo on

2:05

Shake It Off. That'll work for

2:08

country radio. Right, guys? Uh-huh. You

2:10

bet. The room of execs nod in

2:12

agreement. They turn to Swift. She

2:15

shakes her head. Scott, you know

2:17

that's not going to match the production on the

2:19

rest of the album. Forshetta

2:21

starts to red-en with frustration. Listen,

2:24

if you want to do a bit of

2:26

pop, that's fine, but let's be smart and

2:29

capitalize on both markets. Swift

2:31

leans forward. I'm pouring my

2:33

heart into these songs, and I love these

2:35

songs. So if they're pop, they're pop.

2:38

I can't just shoehorn a country song in there.

2:40

It'd be so disingenuous. But

2:42

of course you don't get that, because you're not

2:44

an artist. Forshetta can

2:46

no longer bend her to his will, but

2:49

Swift makes him millions playing to a

2:51

country audience. He worries

2:53

she'll alienate those fans by going

2:56

full pop. He's got

2:58

to find a way to swear. You've

3:00

got an established, astronomically successful career

3:03

in country music. To shake that

3:05

up would be the biggest mistake

3:07

you ever make. Swift

3:09

is not having it. Exactly, Scott.

3:12

I've got an astronomically successful career in

3:14

country music, and I'm going to make

3:16

this decision. Not you! We're

3:19

done here. But

3:21

they're far from done. This

3:25

is just the opening salvo in the

3:27

savage battle to come. One

3:29

that will be fought in boardrooms, on

3:31

her music videos, on social media,

3:34

and on stage. This

3:37

fight will nearly destroy

3:39

Swift until she

3:41

deploys her most powerful weapon, her

3:44

rabid fans, and

3:46

acid-dipped lyrics. If

3:53

you're losing steam and working towards that.

3:55

New Year's resolution, well, I have just

3:57

the thing. Audible. No Matter what your

3:59

goals are, get re-inspired. with audible rich

4:01

variety of wellness content and categories like

4:03

physical, mental, spiritual, motivational, occupational and financial

4:05

wellness, I've got Audible app on my

4:07

phone and waiting in line for school

4:09

pick up. I had a book to

4:12

my list that everyone's been talking about.

4:14

It's called Atomic Habits by James Clear.

4:16

These are easy and practical steps we

4:18

can all take to overcome moods and

4:20

emotional distraction. And as an Audible member,

4:22

well, you get to keep one title

4:24

a month from their entire catalogue including

4:26

best sellers, a new releases new members

4:29

can try Audible right? Now for thirty

4:31

days, head on over to audible.com/b

4:33

W or text be doubled you

4:35

to five hundred Five hundred That

4:38

audible.com/b W or Text B w

4:40

Two five hundred Five hundred to

4:42

try Audible Free for thirty days.

4:45

Applecart is the credit card created by

4:47

Apple. You. Earn three percent daily cash

4:50

back when you use it to by the

4:52

new Apple Vision Pro or any products at

4:54

Apple. And you could automatically grow

4:56

your daily cash had four point five, zero

4:58

percent annual percentage shield. Would you open a

5:00

high yield savings account? Apply. For

5:02

Applecart in the wallet app on I phone.

5:05

Applecart subject to credit approval Savings

5:08

available to Applecart owners subject Eligibility:

5:10

Applecart in Savings by Goldman Sachs

5:12

Bank Usa Salt Lake City Branch

5:14

member Ft I see terms apply.

5:20

From wondering, I'm David Brown and this

5:22

is business. In

5:49

the last episode, Taylor Swift signed

5:51

on to Scott Moore said his

5:53

label and quickly rose to startle

5:55

Scooter Braun. Discovered Justin Bieber who

5:58

went on tour with Swift's. But

6:00

as Swift started pivoting to pop

6:02

her relationship with more shudder began

6:05

to sour. In this episode Swift

6:07

make so bold move that bullshit

6:09

as sees as a threat to

6:12

his business so he teams up

6:14

with brought to protect his and

6:16

best. This

6:19

is episode. Fab

6:22

Live. In

6:32

westerly Rhode Island. Swift

6:35

stretches out on a son lousy

6:37

or by the pool. She's wearing

6:40

a floppy hat and dark sunglasses.

6:42

nearby actor Emma Stone. We apply

6:44

sunscreen while her boyfriend doctor Andrew

6:47

Garfield sips a cold beverage. Tv

6:49

star Lena Dunham floats languidly on

6:52

an inflatable bad is it a

6:54

list gathering of actors or models?

6:58

Sweatshops, Our. Ideals.

7:03

Are a few jump at the suggested

7:05

they run into switch giant kitchen and

7:07

just to work. With

7:10

Baftas a bedroom vacation home last

7:12

year for seventeen million dollars. I

7:16

got it. It's

7:18

not Swift's only property. Earlier in

7:21

the year, she bought Peter Jackson's

7:23

former Try Back a penthouse for

7:25

nineteen million dollars. She spent two

7:28

million dollars on a Nashville apartments.

7:30

Most is rarely they're. All

7:33

right, there's this said. or

7:35

ah, I'm years and measuring

7:37

flowers. It's

7:39

no accident that her home is

7:42

swarming with female celebrities. After getting

7:44

flack on social media for being

7:46

boy assist with guys like John

7:48

Mayer and Jake Gyllenhaal, she cultivated

7:50

a group of female friends the

7:52

frescoes with her pearls. These

7:55

days, Swift is less likely to be photographed

7:57

with a new boyfriend then she is. The

8:00

money for like much rather they

8:02

could see with musicians like hi

8:04

I'm and Floors she's embrace them

8:06

as best friends and pictures of

8:08

her with them probably make her

8:11

more likable to were mostly see

8:13

mail fan base. Mix

8:15

it up. All

8:20

right is ready to go now than

8:22

the women high five. For.

8:26

Swiss the weekend is a much needed break

8:28

from working on or album in fighting with

8:30

her label. Swift once

8:32

the record to be called Nineteen

8:34

Eighty Nine the year she was

8:36

born and she wants the cover

8:38

of the album to be a

8:41

faded Polaroid of herself and her

8:43

shirt featuring flying sea gulls. The

8:45

picture cuts off her face just

8:47

below the eyes for initials T

8:49

S and Nineteen Eighty Nine or

8:51

the bottom. She wants to ditch

8:54

the typical country cover she's going

8:56

for edge and unpredictable for most

8:58

female celebrities, their faces a saleable

9:00

asset. But with his

9:02

album cover, Swift wants to prove

9:04

that she's so well known that

9:06

fans will recognize or from just

9:09

one blurry body parts for read

9:11

lists. Shudder, Sexist

9:13

Crypt and once or to name

9:15

the album after one of the

9:17

song titles typical of country music

9:19

Alex he wants her to show

9:22

or full face that Days sells

9:24

out. But

9:26

this is more than a debate out.

9:29

She's making a statement about says

9:31

she wants to least and what

9:34

she wants to put see may

9:36

not realize is that she's about

9:38

to touch the third rail of

9:40

the music business. Streaming.

9:48

November Twenty Four Teas Charlottesville, Virginia

9:50

A teenage girl sits in her

9:52

bedroom talking to her friends and

9:54

snap for Mac. Book is open

9:56

on are bad Blasting one of

9:58

the Taylor Swift's old albums. Spotify.

10:00

She saw Swift in concert

10:02

last year as The Commission's

10:05

fast. All the

10:07

sudden. The. Music Cuts: What's.

10:11

The spot a five shows an error

10:13

message. That's

10:15

weird. She navigates to

10:18

Swift's artist page. Is

10:23

blank. There's nothing there. Not a

10:25

single Taylor Swift album is on

10:27

spotify. she keeps clicking. This must

10:29

be some sort of mistake for

10:32

she supposed to listen to Swift

10:34

Sauce. She

10:36

quickly goes to our immediately

10:38

stocks. A mess with. The

10:41

responses or if it's not just

10:44

her, it looks like Swift is

10:46

removed all her music from spotify.

10:50

Smithy closes or laptop stiver hurt

10:52

ago the Target and by the

10:54

new Swift Cd. Swift's

10:57

decision to pull her catalog from

11:00

Spotify isn't a surprise. Few months

11:02

ago, Swift wrote an op ed

11:04

in the Wall Street Journal where

11:07

she denounced streaming saying it doesn't

11:09

compensate artists. Fearless Spot of I

11:11

quickly response noting that Swift is

11:14

actually been paid millions of dollars

11:16

were shadow hits back on Swift's

11:18

behalf, saying that they haven't seen

11:21

that much money. Lots

11:23

of artists have protested the

11:26

paltry sums the streaming platform

11:28

gives performers must. She's the

11:30

biggest star so far. The

11:32

fact the company actually response

11:34

is a sign of just

11:36

how powerful she is. Taylor.

11:40

Swift doesn't realize it in the

11:42

moment, but her decision to yank

11:44

her songs from spot A Fine

11:46

will actually pit her against Mega

11:48

Talent agent Scooter Braun, who owns

11:50

a stake in the company. but

11:54

he's preoccupied was trying to save

11:56

neighbors career after a drunk driving

11:58

arrests It

12:00

won't be long before all

12:02

of them, Porchetta, Braun, and

12:04

Bieber, close in on her.

12:14

November 2014, New York City. Swift

12:18

is in her Tribeca apartment, sitting on the

12:20

couch in a red plaid flannel shirt with

12:22

her two cats. It's

12:25

a text from Swift's publicist with a link to

12:27

a Business Week article. Swift clicks

12:30

on it. The headline reads, Taylor

12:33

Swift is the music industry. Well,

12:36

that's nice. She pulls

12:38

one of her cats close to her and keeps going.

12:41

Big Machine Records founder Scott Porchetta

12:43

and his little-known pop act attain

12:45

mass success in an ailing industry.

12:49

Little known? They've been

12:51

sarcastic? From the headline,

12:53

it sounds as though this is going to be a

12:56

story about her. It

12:58

does talk about how her albums actually

13:00

sell copies in an industry where that's

13:02

less and less common. But

13:04

really, it's a profile of Porchetta. And

13:08

he's taking a lot of credit for

13:10

her success. And

13:12

her decisions. She

13:14

calls her publicist. Wait, did you

13:16

read this? He says he's the

13:18

person who decided to take my music from Spotify.

13:21

He's trying to take credit for my decision, as if

13:24

it was his idea. Yep, taken

13:26

care of. We had a,

13:28

quote, source close to Swift. That

13:31

would be me. Say, Scott is exaggerating

13:33

his involvement because he's trying to sell the

13:35

company. Swift nods,

13:38

satisfied. She'd heard rumblings

13:40

that Porchetta's trying to sell the label before

13:42

she leaves. Do you think

13:44

I need to make any comment myself? No.

13:47

I don't think it's a good look for you to get into a

13:49

public fight with Scott. Not right now. Scott

13:52

used a business magazine as his mouthpiece.

13:54

But remember, you have the

13:57

most powerful weapon of all. What's

14:01

that? The.

14:03

Swiss These. Swift

14:06

does is her publicist, suggest

14:09

and doesn't say anything publicly.

14:11

Get. He

14:13

won't be long before she sticks

14:16

system or said and to all

14:18

the other man who she thinks

14:20

have wronged her when it happens

14:22

he will be an abrupt a

14:24

break from her past emotionally and

14:27

artistically. And it

14:29

will be dawn of far

14:31

bigger stage in spectacular fashion.

14:37

Do. You ever wonder where all your

14:39

money went? Like every single time

14:41

you look at your bank account?

14:44

Honestly, it's probably all those subscriptions.

14:46

I felt that way till until

14:48

I got Rocket Money. Rocket Money.

14:50

Help me see all the subscript

14:52

since I'm paying for us and

14:54

it was eye opening. Between streaming

14:56

services, fitness apps, delivery services. it

14:58

all adds up so quickly. Rocket

15:00

Money as a personal finance apps

15:02

that fines and cancels your unwanted

15:04

subscriptions, monitors you're spending and health

15:06

floor your belts, Rocket Money

15:08

has over five million users and as

15:10

helped Save It's members an average of

15:13

seven hundred twenty dollars a year with

15:15

over five hundred million utensil subscriptions. Stop.

15:18

Wasting money on things you

15:20

don't use? Cancel your unwanted

15:22

descriptions by going to Rocket

15:25

Money that Pounds. Last wonder

15:27

it's that's Rocket money.com/laundry Rocket

15:29

money.com/laundry. Shopify.

15:31

Is already taken the cash register online.

15:33

Helping millions save billions around the world?

15:35

We did. You know that shopify can

15:38

do the same thing at your retail

15:40

store? Give. Your point of

15:42

sale system. A serious upgrade

15:44

was shopify. Shopify is the

15:46

commerce platform, revolutionizing millions of

15:48

businesses worldwide. With. Shopify. You

15:51

get a powerhouse selling partner that

15:53

effortlessly unites you're in person and

15:55

online sales into one source of

15:57

truth. Track every sail across your.

16:00

This in one place and know exactly

16:02

what's in stock. Do retail

16:04

right with Shopify! Sign.

16:06

Up for a one dollar

16:09

per month trial period at

16:11

shopify.com/wondering all lowercase. Go.

16:13

To shopify.com/wonder he did

16:15

take your retail business

16:17

to the next level

16:19

today? Shopify That com/wondering.

16:35

February. Twenty sixteen: The Staples Center

16:37

in Downtown Los Angeles. Swift's it's

16:39

Front row with a Grammy awards

16:41

and a Red Cross top and

16:43

magenta skirt for hairs cut in

16:45

a sleek straight bob. no more

16:48

loose country curves. She's

16:50

waiting nervously the hear the results of album

16:52

of the year. The

16:55

announcer opens ya the live

16:57

and says to magic words

16:59

Killer Flip. Flops

17:02

mousetrap sofa. she stands up.

17:05

And hugs her friends Selena Gomez. She

17:07

embraces producer Jag Antar know who made

17:09

the majority of this record with it.

17:12

And then she strides onto the stage.

17:16

For the last year. The

17:20

Recording Academy. For getting us is

17:23

unbelievable. Honor. She begins by

17:25

thanking her collaborators and then.

17:28

She. Gets serious? And

17:30

as the first. Woman:

17:33

To win. I

17:38

wanna say to all the young women

17:40

out there. They're

17:42

going to the people along

17:45

the way to let's try

17:47

to undercut your success or

17:49

take credit for your accomplishments.

17:51

Are your same. The

17:54

crowds years Seems like she's talking about

17:56

rapper Kanye West and the way he

17:58

destroyed during the two that. The nine

18:00

be a Male was a flap

18:02

which he claims made her famous,

18:04

And then there was the hugely

18:06

public scuffle over whether she agreed

18:08

to allow kind to use a

18:10

lyric in a song about her

18:12

sweat keeps going that he cheated.

18:15

On the work. Of

18:17

people to. Someday when you got what

18:19

you're going you'll look around and you

18:22

will know that you and the people

18:24

who love you to put you there

18:26

and that will be the greatest feeling

18:28

in the world. House.

18:37

And it's telling that Swift is

18:39

not once mentioned more shadow or

18:42

thank her label, And while many

18:44

assume it's address to West, it

18:46

could also be about bullshit. Nineteen

18:50

Eighty Nine goes on to become

18:52

not only the most successful album

18:54

of a career, was the top

18:56

three albums of the entire decade.

18:58

It sells five million copies in

19:00

it's first nine months, making it

19:02

the fastest selling album since two

19:04

thousand and four. But

19:07

even though Taylor Swift is

19:09

riding high, it's all about

19:11

the com crashing down. August

19:18

second: Twenty Sixty Nashville, Tennessee.

19:22

Has been lot of media attention lately,

19:24

so Swift is lying low in her

19:26

apartment. She's lounging in bed

19:28

with one of our cats on a large white

19:30

do they. Just. Than one

19:32

of her cat stands up right and

19:35

tux your ears backed. making a hilarious

19:37

expression. She snaps a video of the

19:39

cat standing up on it's hind legs.

19:41

She's been trying to stay offline lately,

19:43

but this clip is too cute. Not

19:46

the post. Scorn

19:48

on. Like

19:50

a girl today. She.

19:57

Adds to her instagram stories. Swiss

20:01

public image has been at an all

20:03

time low this summer. There

20:05

was a controversy over whether Swift agreed to

20:07

allow Con Yea to use a lyric one

20:09

of his songs In June, Kim Kardashians said

20:11

that her husband kind yeah I had call

20:14

Swift for approval of the lyric. When.

20:16

Script denied it. Kardashians uploaded a table

20:18

flip of the call that made it

20:20

sound as though swift and heard West

20:23

song and didn't object. For.

20:25

Dash in it with the a mogi of

20:27

a snake as if to say that. Swift

20:30

was that snake. And

20:32

then well. then it fell to swift

20:35

like the whole internet turned against her.

20:37

Anonymous. Masses calling her a liar

20:40

and saying the she's playing the victim.

20:42

So. She's been trying to stay off social

20:45

media and out of the headlines. But

20:48

just as she looks for her kitty

20:50

on her instagram feed, she sees a

20:52

picture from Justin Bieber. She.

20:54

Reads: Caps. Killer

20:56

Swift? What up? It's

20:59

a black and white face time

21:01

screenshot of Bieber with Scooter Braun and

21:03

Konya West. Swift's.

21:05

Heart sinks. As

21:07

a lot going on in this one screenshot.

21:10

The messaging is not that subtle. It

21:13

signals that Bieber, who she thought

21:15

of as a friend, is taking

21:18

sides kind gays and West is

21:20

now a client of Braun. Swift.

21:24

Throws her phone down. She's furious.

21:26

these guys are ganging up on

21:28

her when worst of all, Were

21:31

Shudder hasn't publicly spoken out in

21:33

support and that steam zur. Inside

21:38

the big machine offices own Music Row

21:41

in Nashville. He's

21:44

got a taylor has ago and.

21:47

She holds up her phone which is

21:49

open on the Bieber Instagram post. Is

21:52

you see this? Not

21:54

good. A half that thing

21:56

still kicking around. Yes,

21:59

Yeah, it is. I just wish

22:01

you would all go away. Puschetta

22:03

nods. Mmm, I

22:05

get that. So what did

22:07

you want to talk about today? Well

22:10

I've been thinking about what's next. This

22:13

is my last album on our deal. After

22:16

her next record, Swift's six album deal is

22:18

up at Big Machine. This

22:20

means she'll be able to sign to another label or

22:23

renegotiate at Big Machine. Right.

22:26

And you know we'd love to have you stay at the label. Pass

22:29

us home for you. Swift

22:31

wriggles in her seat slightly. Well

22:34

I'd be open to exploring that

22:36

possibility, but in order to

22:38

resign, I'd need my masters

22:40

back. Taylor,

22:43

I just can't do that. You know

22:45

I'm exploring selling Big Machine. Without

22:48

your masters, this label is worth a whole lot

22:50

less, and I need to take that into

22:52

account. Swift begins

22:54

to cry. Look, this

22:57

is the worst summer of my life. I

23:00

just want to be able to get my masters back

23:02

and move forward. Why is this

23:04

so hard for you to understand? Well

23:07

we can keep talking about it, but

23:09

maybe now is not the right time. Swift

23:15

is facing the fact that her reputation

23:17

is in shambles, and

23:19

she has no idea how to mend it. She

23:23

decides to disappear from public view. Swift

23:26

will use this time to gather her strength. She'll

23:29

use this sense of shame as

23:32

fuel to go through a painful

23:34

metamorphosis. And when she

23:36

returns to the stage, her

23:38

lyrics will be weapons, and

23:41

her new persona will be unrecognizable.

23:52

Most weight loss plans are one

23:54

size fits all, not taking into

23:56

account each person's individual needs. Noom

23:58

takes into account Dietary

24:00

restrictions. Medical issues and other personal

24:02

needs to build a plan. That. Works

24:05

for you Everyone's journey. Is

24:07

different. So your daily lessons or

24:09

personalized to you and your goals

24:11

stay focused on what's important to

24:13

you. With news, psychology and biology

24:15

based approach, Sign up for your

24:17

free trial today at noom.com that's

24:20

an O M.com and check out

24:22

News! First ever cookbook. The New

24:24

Kitchen for one hundred healthy and

24:26

delicious recipes to promote better living

24:28

available to buy now wherever. Books

24:30

are sold, May

24:46

Twenty Seven Team: Los Angeles. Swift.

24:49

Is on says to film her first music

24:51

videos and she became persona non grata. The

24:54

said as a smoke filled graveyard

24:57

be camera zooms in on a

24:59

giant gravestone that reads here lies

25:01

Taylor Swift's reputation. All

25:04

of a sudden, a ghoulish looking Swift's

25:06

closer way out of the grave. She's

25:08

in zombie make up. Swift

25:11

start singing as she grabs a

25:13

shovel and refills the grave. In

25:23

this revenge video for her

25:25

album Reputation, the lyrics are

25:27

appointed reference to West Swift

25:30

performs the line and staccato

25:32

as though there's a period

25:34

after. Every single word for

25:37

voice punches across a minimum

25:39

drumbeat showcasing her new thrash

25:41

electronics. or

25:44

for is clear this is

25:46

not the old taylor is

25:49

soft blonde ways and as

25:51

aura sweeties this is the

25:54

new taylor hard edges ready

25:56

to strike and she's not

25:58

taking minister And

26:03

cut! Swift

26:05

hurries to hair and makeup to change out

26:07

of the zombie prosthetics. The

26:09

makeup artist leans in to Swift. I

26:12

love what you're doing. Making a whole artistic

26:14

statement about your public perception after all that.

26:17

You know, it's very brave. Thank

26:20

you. This

26:23

record, Reputation, is her chance to

26:25

address the haters. She

26:27

ended up writing a whole album about

26:29

her image. Now

26:31

dressed in a slinky orange outfit with

26:34

tall, skin-tight boots, she

26:36

watches as the prop people set up

26:38

a giant gilded cage. Swift

26:40

is going to swing inside it like a

26:43

caged songbird. It's a

26:45

callback to her old house in Nashville,

26:47

where she used to have a giant

26:49

gold birdcage. But it

26:51

also seems to be a visual representation

26:53

of her relationship with Borsettia. She's

26:56

his songbird, locked

26:58

into a cage. August

27:05

25, 2018.

27:07

Nashville's Nissan Stadium. Swift

27:10

is in her green room, getting ready to go

27:12

on stage. She's about to perform

27:14

the home leg of her Reputation tour, in

27:16

front of nearly 70,000 people. Her

27:20

sixth album sold two million copies

27:22

worldwide in the first week. Swift

27:25

is still selling records like it's the 90s, even

27:28

though streaming is decimated record sales

27:31

figures overall. And she's selling

27:33

out stadiums, too. Come

27:36

in. Swift looks

27:38

up. It's Borsettia. Hi,

27:41

Taylor. I just wanted to catch you quickly.

27:43

I know you wanted to talk about buying

27:45

your masters back. It's only

27:47

minutes before she has to be on stage. She's

27:50

annoyed, but she seizes the opportunity

27:52

to talk about her masters. Yes,

27:55

I do. What's your price? It's

27:58

not a question of price, Taylor. Look,

28:01

here's the way I see it. A deal

28:03

to deal. What we agreed to back in the

28:05

day was that I would own the Masters. And

28:07

you'd be signed to a six album deal. He

28:10

holds up a finger. Now, Reputation

28:12

was your last album on that deal.

28:14

So, what I propose is

28:16

this. Stay signed to Big Machine. Sign

28:18

a new deal with us. And

28:21

then we can figure out the right price for

28:23

your Masters. Taylor,

28:25

you're on a 20. Swift

28:27

turns to Borschetta. Look,

28:29

Scott. I gotta go. Of

28:32

course. Have a great show. But

28:37

Swift is frustrated. She

28:40

feels like for all she's done for

28:42

Borschetta, he should just let

28:44

her have her Masters at a reasonable price.

28:47

Why should she tie herself to him in

28:49

his record label for another 10 years? November

28:59

2018. Tribeca, New York

29:01

City. It's early morning and

29:03

Swift is at home getting ready to

29:06

make a big announcement. But

29:08

first, she types a message to

29:10

Borschetta. Scott, I

29:12

hope this finds you well. Since communication

29:14

ran dry on our negotiation, I've done

29:16

what I told you I would do

29:18

and gone out exploring other options. Owning

29:21

my Masters was very important to me. But

29:24

I've since realized that there are things that mean even

29:26

more to me in the bigger picture. At

29:30

the Big Machine offices in Nashville, Borschetta's

29:32

reading the message. I

29:35

also saw a rare opportunity to affect

29:37

positive change for a lot of other

29:39

artists with the leverage I have right

29:42

now. I wanted to

29:44

tell you first that I'll be

29:46

signing with Lucian. Holy,

29:49

Taylor's signing with Universal. He

29:52

reads on. I still view

29:54

you as a partner and friend and

29:57

I hope you feel the same, sending

29:59

you a hug. and my most sincere

30:01

gratitude and so much

30:03

love, Taylor." Borschetta

30:08

buries his head in his hands. But

30:11

back in New York, Swift is elated.

30:14

This is a huge day for her. She's

30:17

signing with Universal Music Group, and

30:19

as part of the deal going forward, she's

30:22

going to get to own her masters. Borschetta

30:26

digests the news slowly. He

30:29

thought this was coming, but still

30:32

it stings. He probably

30:34

feels like he discovered Swift and made

30:36

her who she is. For

30:39

her to leave, it almost feels

30:41

like a divorce. But

30:45

it poses a financial dilemma for Big

30:47

Machine, too. Swift was

30:49

their biggest artist. The

30:51

label doesn't have Swift anymore, but

30:54

it does still have her masters

30:56

for her first six hit albums.

30:59

And even without Swift, that

31:02

still makes the label a very

31:04

valuable asset. One that

31:06

an astute business person in the music

31:08

industry is very interested

31:10

in. Fall

31:15

2018 in the Big Machine offices

31:18

in Nashville. Scott

31:20

Borschetta is sitting at his desk. His

31:22

hair shows more gray than when Swift side with

31:24

him more than a decade ago, but he's

31:27

kept the same country music executive look.

31:30

Jeans, a black shirt, and jacket. In

31:34

walks his guest, mega talent

31:36

agent Scooter Braun, a

31:38

30-something in a t-shirt and bomber jacket.

31:40

Hi, Scooter. Great to see you. Thanks for coming

31:43

to Nashville. Well, I figured I needed to

31:45

come and find out what you guys are all about.

31:48

Borschetta spreads his hands. Here

31:50

we are, the best independent country label

31:53

and publishing company in the world. We're

31:55

doing $100 million in revenue and going strong.

31:59

Even without Taylor? Look, we still

32:01

have the masters for our first six albums, which

32:03

bring in a lot of money, as you know,

32:05

and we've got artists like Florida Georgia Line, Cheryl

32:08

Crow, Lady Yay, and they're nothing to

32:10

sniff at. Braun nods,

32:12

impressed. Well, let me tell

32:14

you a little bit about Ithaca Holdings. That's

32:17

Braun's company, which is even more impressive

32:19

than Big Machine. It

32:22

too has high profile artists like

32:24

Drake and Stakes in Music Technology.

32:27

More importantly though, one of the world's

32:29

biggest private equity firms, the Carlyle Group,

32:32

is behind it. And that

32:34

opens bold new horizons. We're

32:37

launching a film studio, we're acquiring

32:39

another music publishing company, and

32:42

we've started a music tech investment fund. We

32:44

have Stakes and tons of other management firms,

32:47

and you know, all of that creates synergy. We

32:49

can negotiate even better terms on any new

32:51

deal. Braun looks at

32:53

Borschetta. Who knows, he's just been

32:56

one up. Look, Scott,

32:58

I think you've got a great business here

33:00

with Big Machine, and I'd love to bring

33:02

you into the Ithaca Holdings fold. What

33:05

do you say? Borschetta

33:07

has half been expecting this. He

33:10

and Braun have been talking a lot recently

33:12

about how they might work together. But

33:14

now, Braun is saying he officially wants

33:17

to acquire his record label, which

33:19

means owning its current roster, and

33:22

Swift's old masters. Borschetta

33:25

leans back. Scooter,

33:27

I'm flattered. Let's talk

33:29

specifics. I don't want to leave

33:31

the company I built. I'm looking for a strategic

33:33

partner who can help me and my artists get

33:35

to the next level. And

33:37

I think that's us. I don't want

33:40

you to go anywhere. I want you to stay independent.

33:42

Keep running your label just as you have been. We're

33:45

positioned to lead the next generation of the music

33:47

industry, and I want you at my side. Borschetta

33:51

smiles. He stands

33:53

up and extends his hand. Scooter,

33:55

you've got a deal. A

33:58

pair of shank on it. Under

34:01

the deal they hash out, Borchetta will

34:03

take a stake in Braun's company. In

34:05

exchange, Braun is going to

34:07

own Big Machine and

34:10

the Masters to Swift's first six

34:12

albums. Taylor

34:17

Swift doesn't know a thing

34:19

about this deal, but when

34:21

she learns she's going to have to

34:23

battle both Braun and Borchetta for her

34:25

Masters, she's furious.

34:29

But the Young Pop superstar has an ace

34:31

upper sleeve. A negotiating

34:33

tool even the mighty Scooter Braun

34:35

can't match. The

34:38

most powerful fans in

34:40

the entire music industry. From

34:48

Wondering, this is the second episode of

34:51

Taylor Swift vs. the World or

34:53

Business One. A quick note

34:55

about recreations you've been hearing. In most cases

34:57

we can't know exactly what was said. Those

35:00

scenes are dramatizations, but they're based on

35:02

historical research. For more on

35:04

Taylor Swift, check out the Miss Americana

35:06

documentary. We also recommend reading

35:08

Taylor Swift, The Whole Story by Chaz

35:10

Nuki Burton. I'm your

35:13

host David Brown. Natalie Robomad wrote

35:15

this story, voice acting by Caroline

35:17

Kinley and Michelle Phillippe. Karen

35:19

Lowe is our senior editor and producer,

35:21

edited and produced by Emily Frost, sound

35:24

designed by Kyle Randall. Our

35:26

senior producers Dave Schelling, our executive

35:28

producers are Jenny Lower Beckman and

35:30

Marshall Louis. We're Wondering.

35:51

Okay, so if you had a time machine,

35:53

how far in time would you need to

35:55

go back to being a dominant basketball player?

36:00

was playing. The plumber game. 27-year-old

36:02

Shay would give Bob Coosey the business.

36:05

He's not guarding me. Hi, I'm Jason

36:07

Esepzion. And I'm Shay Serrano, and we

36:09

are back. We have a new podcast

36:12

from Wondering. It's called Six Trophies. And

36:14

that's the best. Each week, Shay

36:16

and I are combing through all of the NBA

36:18

storylines, finding the best, most

36:20

interesting, most compelling ones, and then

36:23

handing out six pop culture-themed trophies for six basketball-related activities.

36:25

Trophies like the Dominic Toretto, I Live My Life, a

36:27

Quarter Mile At A Time trophy, which is given to

36:29

someone who made a short-term decision with no

36:31

regard for future consequence. Or

36:34

the Christopher Nolan Tenet trophy, which is given to someone who

36:36

did something that we didn't understand. Catalina Wine Mixer

36:39

trophy. Ooh, the Lauryn Hill, you might

36:41

win some, but you just lost one trophy. Follow Six Trophies

36:43

on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Give

36:45

us the Six Trophies ad-free right now by

36:48

joining Wondery Plus.