Mark Vernon, psychotherapist and ex-clergyman, joins me to talk about inner life, spirituality, and a consciousness-first model of the universe.

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Special thanks to Chris Maier, who did the music. Find him here.

GUEST LINKS
Mark's Aeon articles
Mark's website
Mark's Twitter: @platospodcasts

THINGS WE MENTIONED
Richard Dawkins
New Atheists
Jung's psychological functions
The Upanishads (Juan Mascaró translation)
Wilfred Bion
Donald Winnicott
Melanie Klein
Attachment theory, John Bowlby

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