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2:19

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley

2:21

Flowers. And I'm Britt. And

2:24

I'm going to do something a little different today.

2:26

I'm kind of starting with a spoiler. I'm

2:29

going to tell you that today's story ends

2:31

with a plea to the public to be

2:33

on the lookout for someone who committed a

2:36

heinous crime. One that only

2:38

very evil, very twisted people

2:40

could do. And in

2:42

this person's act of violence, they took

2:44

the life of a 39-year-old dad who

2:46

was devoted to his son and his

2:48

family and worked hard to provide for

2:50

them in a small suburb outside of

2:52

Detroit, Michigan. And I

2:54

said it's a spoiler because this person

2:56

is still on the run. So I

2:59

need you to listen carefully to every

3:01

detail so you can help us find

3:03

them. And finally, bring justice

3:05

to a family that's been waiting over

3:07

five years for it. This

3:09

is the story of David Curter.

3:46

Tasia Carter Jackson is going about her

3:48

regular Tuesday morning routine in October

3:50

2018 when she

3:52

gets a call from her brother's coworker

3:55

asking if she knew where her brother

3:57

David is. that

4:00

David was a no-show for work on

4:02

Sunday and Monday and

4:04

today, Tuesday, which immediately

4:07

alarms Tasia. According

4:09

to Netflix's Unsolved Bisteries episode, it's

4:11

just not like him to skip

4:13

one day, much less three. So

4:15

something must be very wrong. And

4:18

that's when Tasia remembers that on Sunday, David had

4:20

sent a text to his son DJ saying that

4:22

he was sick and he would need to skip

4:24

their typical Sunday night get-together. He was supposed to

4:26

go to his house. He's like, no, you know,

4:28

just stay there. I'm not feeling so good. So

4:31

she wonders if things had gotten really bad. It's

4:33

like he couldn't even pick up the phone to

4:35

call into work. Someone needs to go check on

4:37

him. So Tasia and her husband head

4:39

over to his apartment to see what's up. Now,

4:42

when they arrive, they see that David's car is

4:44

parked in front of his place. So they kind

4:46

of breathe this like tiny sigh of relief until

4:49

they walk up to his apartment and

4:52

they find that his front door is

4:54

unlocked. And Tasia knows this

4:56

is entirely out of character for

4:58

David. Melvindale, Michigan, where he

5:00

lives, isn't necessarily a dangerous place by any

5:03

means. But David's again, just not the kind

5:05

of guy to leave his door unlocked. Oh,

5:07

not many people are in this day and age.

5:09

No. So like right away when she sees this,

5:11

like major alarm bells, she

5:14

immediately calls her dad and she calls

5:16

DJ's mom Samia to come over because

5:18

she's like something's something's very wrong here.

5:20

And I assume that David and Samia aren't still

5:23

together. No, I don't think they've been together for

5:25

like a while at this point. I mean, David's

5:27

even dating someone else, but he and Samia still

5:29

have a really good relationship. So they

5:32

call them to come over, but like they

5:34

don't wait around with a little apprehension. They

5:37

open the door. They walk in only to

5:39

find that his place is a

5:41

straight up mess and not

5:43

like a I've been a sick

5:45

dude mess because that doesn't even apply

5:48

to David. According to Tasia, David is

5:50

a very tidy guy. And this

5:52

place just doesn't even look like it belongs

5:55

to him. Everything's out of order. His bed

5:57

isn't made. There's no sick David laying around

5:59

or on the bed. honestly, anywhere in the

6:01

apartment. So Tasia and the group

6:03

start looking around for any clues as to what

6:05

could have happened or where he could be. According

6:08

to an America's Most Wanted episode that aired in March of

6:10

2021, they don't get very

6:13

far into their search before Tasia

6:15

looks under his bed. And when

6:17

she does, she sees a huge

6:19

red stain and an empty

6:21

bottle of peroxide. Samia's

6:23

here by this point. She calls her in

6:26

to look at it, and she pulls the

6:28

comforter and sheets off the bed, and they

6:30

see even more red stains on the mattress

6:33

and what appears to be a bullet hole

6:35

at the top. Tasia then

6:37

yells for her dad to come, and when he

6:39

steps in, he takes a moment to take it

6:41

all in. Not just the bed, but the whole

6:44

room. And what he sees

6:46

when he does that is another small

6:48

bullet hole, this time in the closet

6:51

door across the room from David's bed.

6:54

And in that moment, like his military

6:56

training immediately kicks in and he

6:58

tells everyone, okay, we need to get

7:00

out of this apartment right now because I'm

7:02

pretty sure we just walked into a crime

7:04

scene. I mean, bravo to him.

7:06

I feel like far, far, far too often we

7:08

hear about people coming in and

7:11

seeing a scene like this and disturbing

7:13

even more. Yeah. So David's

7:15

dad, Elton, calls police, tells them that something

7:17

bad has happened to his 39-year-old son, but

7:19

he has no idea where his son is

7:21

actually at. And police take

7:23

this call seriously and move quickly into

7:25

investigative mode. Something

7:27

by Rod Maloney and Derek Hutchinson for

7:30

Click on Detroit says, by 4 p.m.

7:32

that same day, which is Tuesday, October

7:34

2nd, police have secured the crime scene

7:36

and are combing through his apartment. Investigators

7:39

spend over 24 hours clocking everything

7:42

in David's place. And truth

7:44

be told, I don't know what is standard

7:46

for a crime scene. I mean, are

7:48

there honestly, it might not be a standard for

7:50

how long you're there. It might come down to

7:52

like how good your lead investigator is or how good

7:54

the tech teams are. I Feel

7:57

like these are all pretty good and really

7:59

thorough. Yeah. The like. A long time to

8:01

me like a full twenty four hours is like you're

8:03

going through every day or one. Small.

8:05

Even other going through everything. in all the

8:08

research, I couldn't find anything giving a list

8:10

of specific evidence that was collected. I mean

8:12

we know what teaser found and I assume

8:14

all of that that collected and process, but

8:17

there's nothing Cd if they found anything else

8:19

like if any bullets or casings were. Actually

8:21

recovered or any. Of his electronic things

8:23

like that. But. The thing I know that

8:25

they don't find. Is David. The.

8:28

Wall Law Enforcement. Is going over his place

8:30

with a fine tooth comb. David stand we. Set

8:32

out to find the answers. Starting.

8:35

With David girlfriend Camera Williams who

8:37

goes by Tammy. Taser: Call

8:39

her to see if See knows where David

8:41

that and See tells are no. I haven't

8:43

talked to him or seen him since Sunday.

8:46

Which. Like Sunday is when his son

8:48

last talk to him to find like.

8:50

That might have made sense a few hours

8:53

ago when everyone just thought he was sick,

8:55

but now all of their hackles are up.

8:57

Is David and Sammy? The. Two of

8:59

them had been like to mood at the

9:01

Hip for the last six months, so. Like.

9:04

What do you mean? You haven't talked to him? In

9:06

days. I mean not to mention

9:08

does a bullet hole where his head should

9:10

be rise in bed said right? Is she

9:13

saying see even writing a hold of am

9:15

like she. Couldn't get a hold of him or

9:17

she's that oh weird. like. I. Guess he's a

9:19

semi. I haven't heard from him. I think it's

9:21

more the ladder like she tried it is dismissive.

9:24

A taser. She. Doesn't even offered to

9:26

call him or tell her that she's tried talking

9:28

to him. I mean, she doesn't even offered to

9:30

help look for him now that they are. So.

9:33

It just feels all sorts of

9:35

wrong. Though it does it

9:37

help it pisa already. Isn't Kameez biggest

9:39

fan? And all along Taser had

9:41

kind of felt like. Sees the only one

9:43

who could see through Kameez act. Like.

9:46

The him he had gone to high school

9:48

with David and back then she was friendly

9:50

and outgoing by I guess when Tammy was

9:52

reintroduced to David through a mutual friend. other

9:54

obviously they're much older than high school age

9:56

to use it Could just tell that something

9:58

was off with her family. Was. Super

10:00

jealous, super controlling, obsessive

10:03

even. Like she wants

10:05

David all the herself which recently had

10:07

included keeping him away from his own

10:09

sign and like forget these days mom

10:11

like she did not want them on

10:13

good terms. Did his ever tried talking

10:15

to David about him? He? I don't

10:17

know if she did or not, but

10:19

I think David was actually coming to

10:21

the realization of a lot of this

10:23

same stuff, whether that was through his

10:26

sister or even just on his own,

10:28

because he had actually confided in Pisa

10:30

about a fight that he had with

10:32

Pm a few days before and Asia

10:34

was pretty sure. That David said he was

10:36

going to be leaving pm me. With

10:38

a serious someone like tell me that's

10:40

incredibly dangerous territory I mean sounds like

10:42

she's or those if I can't have

10:44

you, no one can kind of people.

10:46

Yeah, that's the fear that has been

10:48

planted in the back of Teases mind

10:50

since she found that bullet hole in

10:52

David's bed. So. The family

10:54

keeps calling around and taser decide

10:56

to take the facebook. According

10:59

to reporting by Kayla Clark for Click On

11:01

Detroit, they set up a Facebook page called

11:03

Help Find David Carter and he sent posting

11:06

about his last known location, what he might

11:08

have and wearing, and to be on the

11:10

lookout for anyone matching his description. And.

11:13

These Facebook post get the

11:15

attention of people at David's

11:18

son's. School. Dj actually

11:20

explains on his own tic toc

11:22

how word.to him. And I want you

11:24

to hear it straight from him. For. My

11:26

school and I'm a class the Marcos'

11:29

garden or market for were larger life

11:31

is a single hit by are They

11:33

Good Life without from I would really

11:35

love software installed on. He

11:37

goes for leisure leisure everything away with

11:40

a supporter of and were over not

11:42

like was put out so stuff i

11:44

buy me a mother with such as

11:46

ah mixers goods of informs that was

11:48

that and on know says about some

11:50

never come first and all of i

11:53

saw i was saying was say support

11:55

our own first book. Sort. of

11:57

no god no says his i was harder

11:59

is also did explain the story as well

12:01

on her TikTok. So I was like, yeah,

12:03

I haven't seen what she put out. What

12:06

is it? You know what I'm saying? So he goes

12:08

and shows me. And I almost

12:11

dropped to my knees when I seen this. DJ

12:13

said he couldn't understand what was happening,

12:15

because he said he'd literally just been

12:18

texting his dad over the last few

12:20

days, like nothing was wrong. So

12:22

he had to go back to class

12:24

with just the most wild thoughts running

12:27

through his mind, and the thing that

12:29

keeps replaying over and over in his

12:31

head was the interaction he had with

12:33

Tammy on Sunday. So

12:36

I told you that David canceled plans with

12:38

him over text. Said he was too sick,

12:40

his son shouldn't come over. But

12:42

the details of what went down

12:44

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14:51

My dad texted my mom saying that he was

14:53

feeling really sick and he didn't want the kids

14:55

to be around. So she said

14:57

that was cool whatever. So we ended up

14:59

going to my grandma's house right or she

15:01

told us to go to my grandma's house.

15:04

And so it was cool with me. So

15:06

I told her I need to go to

15:08

my dad's and grab a few things that

15:10

I forgot over there before we go. So

15:12

she's okay. She's okay cool go ahead. So

15:14

boom so we ended up getting to my

15:16

dad's and I see camera walking to the

15:18

trash can and I said hey to her

15:20

but she ended up she just took off running

15:22

back to my dad's apartment and I thought it was weird

15:24

so I was like whatever so I just parked the car

15:26

I got out and went up to

15:28

his door. So as I went to the

15:32

door the door was locked so I was

15:34

like I should sign whatever so I locked

15:36

the door I go in and when I

15:38

went in she popped up in my

15:40

face was like hey David was going on like what you

15:42

doing here and stuff like that I was like yeah I

15:44

just came here so I forgot a few things you know

15:46

I was saying before I go to my grandma and she

15:48

was like okay all right cool. So I walk around see

15:50

if I can find it you know I go

15:53

in my room his clothes is on my

15:55

bed which is weird he's a neat freak.

15:57

I'm still walking around going to bathroom couldn't find it.

16:00

But she ended up closing his bathroom door, so

16:02

I was like, okay. His

16:05

bedroom door was closed, so I'm like,

16:07

okay. But, Mayju, it's a

16:09

regular day for me. I'm not thinking of nothing crazy.

16:11

So I couldn't find what I needed, so I just

16:13

leave. The interesting

16:15

thing to note is that the

16:17

reason Tammy gave for David not

16:19

being there when DJ dropped by was

16:22

that he was out for O-walk. Now,

16:24

mind you, when DJ tried to call his dad to tell

16:26

him he was coming over to get his stuff, his dad

16:29

just texts back like, oh, I'm too sick, I can't even

16:31

talk on the phone. But he

16:33

feels good enough for a walk. Yeah, a brisk

16:35

walk for a sick man I might add. Like,

16:37

it's around 50 degrees at this point. Okay,

16:39

so let me get this straight. Tammy's the

16:41

last person to see David. She's acting

16:44

super strange towards DJ and Tasia.

16:47

And then there are these blood stains on the

16:49

bed. Check, check, check. What are police waiting for?

16:52

I think they're waiting for David. Or, I

16:54

mean, more likely at this point, his remains to show up.

16:58

But he hasn't. So sometime

17:00

around 4 p.m. on Wednesday, October

17:02

3rd, they take down the crime

17:04

scene tape, they pack up and

17:06

leave David's apartment. And it seems

17:08

like whatever they found there—again, I

17:10

still think they're waiting for David because whatever they

17:12

found at the apartment doesn't seem like enough to

17:14

indicate what exactly happened or where he could be.

17:17

I mean, like, from what I know, it feels

17:19

like we know what happened. But it's like something

17:21

bad for sure happened. But they don't know what.

17:23

Someone was involved. David's not here. We need a

17:26

few more pieces of the puzzle to really act.

17:29

Exactly. So they head out to the surrounding

17:31

areas to search for any clues. And

17:33

that takes them over near an intersection by

17:35

his place. And it's less than like a

17:37

mile away. I'm not sure why they focus

17:39

on this specific area. I don't know if

17:42

it was because Tammy said he went for

17:44

a walk or what, but for whatever

17:46

reason, they're really focusing on a

17:49

radius around his apartment that's like a walkable

17:51

distance. But this whole

17:53

time, nothing turns up for them that

17:55

morning. And that's because

17:57

what they're actually looking for is—

18:00

was much further out. You

18:03

see that afternoon, they get word about

18:05

a bulletin that was put out by

18:07

the Ohio State Highway Patrol. It

18:10

was a notice to surrounding areas

18:12

about remains that they had found

18:14

in a small town in Northern

18:16

Ohio. Apparently the Ohio

18:19

Department of Transportation or

18:21

ODOT was out mowing grass

18:23

along I-75 Monday morning,

18:25

October 1st when a worker noticed

18:27

a sleeping bag in his way. In

18:30

the Unsolved Mysteries episode, they say that the guy

18:32

went to move the bag and he realized that

18:34

it was really heavy, so there

18:36

had to be something inside of it. And

18:38

at first he assumed it was an

18:40

animal, but then his intrusive thoughts must

18:42

have kicked in because he started thinking

18:44

something even worse. What if this

18:46

is a child in this bag? And

18:49

that thought made him immediately call the

18:51

police. And when officers arrived,

18:53

they're the ones who opened the bag

18:55

and discovered that it was in fact

18:58

human remains, but it wasn't a

19:00

child. It was just parts

19:02

of an adult body, just the

19:04

bottom torso and legs of a male.

19:07

So they immediately secured that scene,

19:09

got cadaver dogs out to search

19:11

the area looking for the rest of

19:14

this man, but that's all

19:16

they were able to find. So those remains

19:18

get sent off for an autopsy. And

19:20

during that, they found a unique tattoo on

19:22

this man's upper left leg. It was a

19:25

pit bull with red eyes. And

19:27

that's what I'm pretty sure stood out

19:29

to the detectives in Michigan when they

19:31

saw the bulletin because David's family had

19:33

told them that he had the same

19:35

tattoo on his upper left leg. Sam

19:38

Shriver reported in the Lyman News that

19:40

these remains were first discovered at 9.30

19:42

a.m. on Monday morning. Again, this is

19:44

October 1st. Now at

19:46

that point, David's family didn't even know

19:48

he was missing. So by the

19:51

third, when detectives in Michigan are

19:53

investigating David's missing persons case, the

19:55

tattoo on the leg helps them

19:57

identify the remains as 39-year-old David

19:59

Carter. So I know

20:01

you said Northern Ohio, but where exactly

20:03

was he found? Are we talking right

20:05

over the Michigan-Ohio border? No. So,

20:08

Melvindale is about 45 minutes

20:11

from the state line, and where

20:13

David's legs and torso were found

20:15

are an hour south of that

20:17

into Ohio, right outside of Finley,

20:19

Ohio. So it's not like somebody

20:21

just, like, you know, popped 15 minutes over

20:23

the line and, like, left them. They took

20:25

a trip there. Mm-hmm. It takes

20:27

a little bit for police to get their ducks

20:29

in a row, but by Friday, October 5th, they

20:31

have a person of interest in custody. And

20:34

who that person is will be no surprise

20:36

to anyone. It is Tammy. She

20:39

is arrested in connection to David's

20:41

murder, but not charged. They

20:44

are still, they say, missing a crucial piece

20:46

of evidence, his upper body parts.

20:49

Because I think the problem is, like,

20:51

his lower body isn't telling them a

20:53

thing about how he was murdered. So

20:55

they're hoping that they can find his

20:57

other half and help break through the

20:59

mystery. Or I think by arresting her,

21:01

they're hoping she will do a confession

21:03

or maybe lead them to the rest

21:05

of his remains. So are the bullet

21:07

holes in his bed and wall not

21:09

enough? I don't know, man. I mean,

21:11

this is where the process really

21:14

breaks down. Because it seems like

21:16

it's the prosecutor's office who is

21:18

saying, like, I get that

21:20

you have all, like, the pieces kind of,

21:22

but, like, it's not enough to actually charge

21:25

her. So long story

21:27

short, she ends up walking free. And

21:30

then there's really no urgent pursuit of

21:32

her. She just kind of slips off

21:34

the radar for the time being while

21:37

their investigation continues. Reporting

21:39

from Fox 2 Detroit reports that

21:41

on Monday, October 8th, they hold

21:43

a vigil for David at McGinty

21:45

Park, which is where he often

21:47

helped coach the Melvindale Junior Football

21:49

Club. And while the community

21:52

is mourning, there is some more found

21:54

on October 10th. That's

21:56

when investigators are back out along I-75.

22:00

processing the area where the sleeping bag

22:02

was found. They're further north

22:04

from the initial search area, and

22:06

that's when detectives find a small

22:09

black duffel bag with red straps.

22:11

And as they unzip the bag, they

22:14

see some grocery bags inside. And when

22:16

they pull those bags out, there is

22:18

a human head, David's

22:20

head. And in all

22:22

groups he shows that he has been

22:25

shot in the head just below his

22:27

left earlobe. This matches

22:29

exactly what the crime scene already told

22:31

you. Let's go get Tammy. That's not

22:33

what they do, though. Not yet.

22:36

They want all of David first.

22:39

And they don't get that until October 16th.

22:42

That's when the Ohio State Highway

22:44

Patrol finds a small multicolored suitcase,

22:46

like a carry-on size, along I-75,

22:49

about 20 miles north of where the

22:51

sleeping bag was found. Once

22:54

again, detectives find themselves unzipping

22:56

this bag. And

22:58

inside, they find a large comforter

23:01

and wrapped inside are hands, arms,

23:04

and an upper torso. And

23:06

with that, they finally have

23:09

David's complete set of remains.

23:12

And with all of his remains found, the

23:14

coroner is able to put together a bigger

23:16

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23:19

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Bahamas and Panama. The

25:45

first set of remains gave no indication

25:47

on David's cause of death, but once

25:49

they run a toxicology report, they

25:51

find antihistamines in his system. And

25:54

so that, paired with the gunshot wound

25:56

to the head, makes the coroner believe

25:59

that he was... was maybe given some

26:01

kind of sleeping aid to make him

26:03

drowsy. And then he was

26:05

likely shot either while he was sleeping

26:07

or when he was not alert enough

26:09

to fight back because he has no

26:11

other injuries or anything that even looks

26:13

like defensive wounds. Plus, they

26:15

say that he had to have been shot

26:17

at really close proximity. In the

26:20

Unsolved Mysteries episode, the coroner speculates that David

26:22

must have had almost direct contact with the

26:24

gun. And they don't say why they think

26:26

that, but I'm assuming it's because of some

26:28

kind of gunpowder residue or tattooing

26:30

from the gun, but that's just me

26:33

speculating. So was someone

26:35

likely standing over him? Which would be like why

26:37

they saw what they believed to be the bullet

26:39

hole in the mattress? Because if that's the case,

26:41

I'm not really sure how there's a hole in

26:43

the mattress and across the room

26:45

on that closet door. Valid

26:48

question. I don't have the answer to that

26:50

because you're right. The angles aren't totally aligning

26:52

for me. The bed one can make sense

26:54

if he was laying on his side. Because

26:56

again, it's like coming in, what do

26:58

they say, by his ear? Earlobe. Yeah.

27:01

The closet one doesn't make any sense.

27:03

I'm really not sure. And it's

27:05

possible the other one isn't related,

27:08

even though, again, I have no idea.

27:10

The hole in the mattress surrounded by

27:12

blood is the one that they think like

27:14

actually, like that's where he was when he died. If

27:17

he was shot while he was

27:19

asleep or drowsy, there's no evidence

27:21

of him fighting back, no defensive

27:23

wounds or anything. Why

27:25

is his place trashed? Like if

27:27

he's usually tidy, like and has

27:29

happened, yeah, calmly, but not in any

27:31

sort of disturbance. I guess I don't get why

27:33

his place was such a mess. I

27:36

don't know. I don't know that that's going to ever

27:38

be explained until there's a trial or even if they

27:40

have like a theory. I know that DJ said

27:43

he saw Tammy taking the trash

27:45

out on Sunday. So it's possible

27:47

she made that mess. I mean, he had

27:50

to have been dismembered by someone. Someone

27:52

spent time in that apartment with him. So

27:54

it could have been that person. And right now

27:57

they're speculating that person is Tammy. And

27:59

it's important to note like Like actually, investigators

28:01

don't bring up the details about his apartment

28:03

being messy. So I don't think it was

28:06

like totally trash. It just didn't look normal

28:08

for David. Like Tasia's the only person bringing

28:10

that up. Right, because she would have this

28:12

like background on David knowing that this isn't

28:15

him versus the police just being like, well, this

28:17

is a crime scene regardless. Yeah. So

28:19

I mean, it's the thing that made her like realize something

28:21

was wrong, but I don't know that it like plays into

28:23

any kind of theory or if it's an

28:25

important piece. Are they able to determine

28:27

what kind of gun was used to kill David?

28:30

No, and that's because they still

28:32

can't find the murder weapon anywhere.

28:34

And again, I don't know if

28:36

they found any casings or anything

28:38

like that. Someone could have taken

28:40

those with them or if they found them, they're not

28:42

releasing it. Now it's worth

28:45

noting that the coroner believes David's death was

28:47

quick, just a single gunshot wound to the

28:49

head. But then he says

28:51

that the dismemberment happened all post-mortem.

28:55

But here's the wild part. They

28:57

believe David was dismembered, not

28:59

with a saw, not with like

29:01

any kind of surgical weapon, but

29:04

with a kitchen knife. And

29:06

the coroner says if you're doing something like that with

29:08

a kitchen knife, it would take a long

29:11

time for anyone to cut

29:13

his body into as many pieces

29:15

as it was in with a

29:17

single, again, kitchen knife. So someone

29:19

spent time in his apartment with

29:21

his remains. And we already

29:23

know who was in his apartment. Well, there's

29:26

no question about it. I mean, not for

29:28

David's family. Once the

29:30

autopsy is finished and all of David's remains

29:32

are accounted for, that's when his family

29:34

holds a memorial on October 27th in

29:36

remembrance of all the life that he

29:39

brought into this world. And

29:41

while mourning their loss, I mean, there's this

29:43

question kind of looming over them, like, why

29:47

hasn't Tammy been arrested yet?

29:49

To them, all signs are

29:51

pointing to her being his

29:53

killer. So that memorial is

29:56

on October 27th, but it

29:58

isn't until almost two months later on

30:00

December 20th that the U.S.

30:03

Marshals issue a felony arrest

30:05

warrant for Tammy for first-degree

30:07

murder, moving a dead body,

30:09

and tampering with evidence. Once

30:12

this warrant goes out, David's family really

30:14

gets their hopes up that Tammy will

30:17

be arrested quickly. But what they don't

30:19

know, and what they won't find out

30:21

until January, is that

30:23

Tammy actually fled Michigan back

30:25

in October, around the time

30:27

she was first released. Like, she just

30:30

rained. Of course she did. They pull her

30:32

credit card statements and find out that the

30:35

last place she visited in Michigan was Ann

30:37

Arbor on Wednesday, October 17th. She

30:40

had dinner and drinks at a restaurant the night

30:42

before and then stayed at a hotel. And on

30:44

the morning of the 17th, she took an Amtrak

30:46

to Chicago and then another depend station in New

30:48

York, and then checked into another

30:51

hotel and left on the 18th. And

30:53

mind you, they're able to track this because the

30:55

whole time, she's using her real ID because

30:57

she could. She wasn't even a wanted person

31:00

at that point. Now, reporting

31:02

by Click on Detroit says that at

31:04

the time of David's murder, Tammy was

31:06

working as a phlebotomist, and she has

31:08

prior experience working in the medical field.

31:10

But she also worked as a travel

31:12

agent and would travel to different countries,

31:15

in addition to being well-connected throughout

31:17

the U.S. Like, she has

31:19

relatives in Michigan, in New York, in

31:22

Atlanta. We know she's been to Chicago.

31:25

And she's also a member of

31:27

the Order of the Eastern Star,

31:29

which I for sure had to look up because I had

31:31

never heard it before. And I guess

31:34

it's just like co-ed fraternity. It's kind of

31:36

connected to the Masons. So

31:38

detectives are worried that with all

31:40

of these connections, like, people

31:43

could be helping her or even funding

31:45

her time on the run. Specifically,

31:47

the Order of the Eastern Star, like, they're

31:49

kind of associated with money and power, and

31:51

she could be using that to her advantage.

31:54

But detectives don't actually have proof of that.

31:56

That's just like a theory. And

31:59

by now, even though she was using

32:01

her name and her cards in the early days,

32:03

they do think that she's using an alias. Detectives

32:06

can link her to at least

32:08

one confirmed name, Latoya Williams, and

32:11

they did this because she had used a credit card

32:13

with the name Latoya on it in the Bronx at

32:15

a fish market sometime around October 2020. And

32:19

that means that there could be other aliases.

32:22

But she also still could be using names that

32:24

are connected to her real name. Like, remember, her

32:26

real last name is Williams, and she used Latoya

32:28

Williams. So it's also pretty common name.

32:30

So it's not like that's going to stick out. Now,

32:33

unfortunately, that fish market in

32:35

the Bronx is pretty much

32:37

their last Tammy sighting. So

32:39

with the pursuit going cold, investigators

32:41

aim for a big media push to help

32:44

them get word out about Tammy. In

32:46

March of 2021, she's featured on America's

32:48

Most Wanted, and they tell the public

32:50

that US Marshals are elevating the investigation

32:52

and upping the reward to $10,000. Then

32:54

by September, that

32:57

same year, detectives think they might

33:00

have something when Tammy's mother, Verdeen

33:02

Day, who was a retired Detroit

33:04

Firefighters Association treasurer, is

33:07

accused of stealing over $200,000 from

33:10

her union. Oh my god. And they allege

33:12

when they arrest her that she spent this

33:14

money on these big trips and other expenses,

33:17

or she was giving it to her daughter

33:19

who's on the run for murder, which

33:21

is what I was initially thinking when I was

33:23

going through my research, but I looked into it.

33:26

She had been embezzling money since 2015, so all the way

33:28

from 2015 to 2019. She just wasn't charged until

33:34

2021. I

33:36

guess they found receipts, bank statements showing

33:38

that all the money really was spent

33:40

on cruises and vacations, things like that.

33:43

Now, it doesn't mean that she wasn't

33:45

helping her daughter in some way, but

33:47

all of her stuff started way before

33:50

Tammy went on the run. So

33:52

now that she's in the wind, David's

33:54

family are still trying to wrap their minds

33:56

around how she could have done something this horrific.

33:58

I mean, they are... shocked

34:00

by how this thing unfolded.

34:03

So, even knowing all of this about her mom,

34:05

about, like, who could be helping her, none

34:08

of it leads detectives any closer

34:10

to finding Tammy. But that's

34:12

not the end of the

34:14

line. Because in 2022, Netflix,

34:16

Unsolved Mysteries, features David's

34:18

case. Now, that

34:20

feature was huge for public attention.

34:22

I mean, that's how I first learned about

34:25

David's case. But ultimately, the

34:27

episodes don't turn into anything

34:29

useful in the search for Tammy. And

34:32

so, in September 2023, Tammy

34:35

earns a spot on the 15 most

34:38

wanted fugitives list. And

34:41

the reason she's most wanted, like, there's

34:43

this fear that law enforcement has. They

34:45

are really worried that she could be

34:47

out there with another man who has

34:49

no idea how

34:51

dangerous she is, what she's

34:53

actually capable of. Now,

34:56

I know we can't give these a ton of

34:58

weight, but, Brett, you tell me, you spiraled a

35:00

little bit when I first mentioned this

35:02

case. Can you tell me what you found? Yeah,

35:04

so, it was on Reddit. So,

35:07

take that with as much salt as

35:09

you want. A lot of what

35:11

I found was posted after the Unsolved Mysteries episode

35:13

aired in 2022. And

35:16

everyone on Reddit was talking about, you know,

35:18

they were sure that she'd be captured in,

35:20

like, a week. But those posts were from

35:22

a year ago. And she's, I mean, still

35:24

on the run. One thing

35:26

that really stood out to me was that

35:29

there were a few accounts that said they

35:31

swore they saw someone who looked exactly like

35:33

Tammy in Paradise, California. And in other parts

35:35

of California, too. Of course,

35:37

I want to add a huge

35:39

disclaimer here. This is Reddit. These

35:41

are anonymous accounts. Anyone can say

35:43

anything. And claim to be anyone.

35:45

Exactly. But what I found super

35:47

interesting is that the research and

35:49

the news articles kind of

35:51

makes it seem like, yes, she could be anywhere, but

35:54

she's probably in New York or on the

35:56

East Coast somewhere. But there's

35:58

the same possibility. could be anywhere.

36:00

Literally in the world. Anywhere else in

36:03

the world. Yeah. And I know there's,

36:05

again, Reddit, no way to fact check this. Did they, did any

36:07

of them say that like, are they just

36:09

posting this on Reddit or are they reporting this

36:11

to police as well? Yeah. So the people who

36:13

claim they saw her also say, yeah, we submitted

36:15

tips. So who knows? But

36:17

a few other people on Reddit pointed

36:20

out that she could probably just be

36:22

someone with like a face, you know,

36:24

I mean, her large tattoo is her

36:26

most striking feature. And I'm sure she's probably

36:28

covering that up and changing her looks pretty

36:30

frequently to stay as incognito as possible. Yeah.

36:32

And we'll give details on that at the

36:34

end. So you guys at least know what

36:36

to look for. But I think this is

36:38

a perfect time to remind all crime genties

36:40

of our number one rule. You

36:43

never really know anyone ever. Exactly. Because

36:45

David's family thought they knew Tammy. She'd

36:47

gone to high school with him. She'd

36:49

been around the community. They were connected

36:52

through a mutual friend. I mean, come

36:54

on. She wasn't a stranger by

36:56

any means. Right. I also think

36:58

it's a great lesson in trusting

37:00

your gut. I mean, the signs

37:02

that Tasia saw were early warning

37:04

signs of domestic violence. Now, I

37:06

don't think anyone had any idea

37:08

that Tammy would escalate to murdering

37:10

and dismembering David in cold blood

37:12

because you never really know anyone

37:14

trust your gut. So Brett,

37:17

can you share her description so people can keep

37:19

an eye out for her? Of course. This year

37:21

in 2024, she is 44 years old. She's 5'5

37:26

and around 190 pounds

37:29

in 2018 when she went on the run. So that could

37:31

be different today. She has black

37:33

hair and brown eyes, but she did

37:36

often wear wigs and even wore

37:38

her natural hair many different ways. So

37:41

I would say maybe don't get

37:43

too caught up on her hairstyle

37:45

or color. Now this tattoo, she

37:47

has a large tattoo of six

37:49

roses on her left shoulder, and

37:51

it's pretty identifiable if you ask

37:53

me. So she probably wanted

37:55

to cover it up. And if she's had

37:57

it covered, like professionally, there might be a

37:59

tattoo artist out there who could help lead

38:01

detectives to her. Yeah, or if there's

38:03

a doctor out there who is like

38:05

removing a tattoo, absolutely. The

38:08

one other thing I wanna call out is that

38:10

she does have some smaller tattoos. One on her

38:12

right foot, she's got some on her back and

38:14

thighs. It's never specified exactly what

38:16

they are. Same thing though,

38:18

she could have had those covered up, removed,

38:20

whatever. So if you

38:23

had any tips, or

38:25

if you're harboring Tammy or helping her

38:27

evade law enforcement, not only are

38:29

you endangering yourself, you're also endangering other

38:31

families who might not know

38:33

anything about her violent past. I

38:36

mean, the ease in which she murdered,

38:38

dismembered, and then discarded David Carter is

38:40

a testament to just how dangerous she

38:43

really is. So if you

38:45

believe that you've seen Tammy Williams recently,

38:47

US Marshals have a 24-hour tip line

38:49

that you can call into at 1-877-WANTED-2,

38:54

or you can send information to them using

38:57

the USMS tips app. There is

38:59

a reward that has been increased to $25,000. You

39:04

can see her picture if you were listening

39:06

to this in the Crime Junkie app, or

39:08

we're gonna post it on social media as

39:10

well, and on the blog post for this

39:12

episode. Do the right thing, help David's family

39:14

find justice. The time is

39:16

now, and Crime Junkies, I hope you've

39:18

listened carefully. We have a wide network,

39:20

one that I am continuously amazed by.

39:22

I believe that if we stay vigilant,

39:24

we will be the ones to help

39:26

find Tammy and bring her to justice.

39:28

I believe in you guys. And

39:31

on the off chance that you're

39:33

listening, Tammy, it's time to turn yourself

39:36

in. You can't keep running

39:38

forever, and it's time to face the consequences

39:40

of your actions. There is

39:42

a young man who deserves closure and

39:44

answers for the father he lost in such

39:46

a pivotal point of his life, and

39:49

that's something that he'll have to live with forever. You

40:05

can find all the source material

40:07

for this episode on our website,

40:09

crimejunkiepodcast.com. And be

40:11

sure to follow us on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast.

40:13

We'll be back next week with a brand new episode.

40:51

Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production.

40:54

So what do you think Chuck? Do you

40:56

approve? Today's

41:01

episode is brought to you by Ashley Store,

41:03

the store that you know for their luxury

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pieces at accessible prices. But From

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sofa to whiners, these stylish, premium quality

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leather pieces are built with the durability

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you need for the whole family. Shop

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a new leather collection at Ashley and

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find fear of starting at For Ninety

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Nine Ninety Nine and Sofas at Five

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Ninety Nine Ninety Nine. Actually, Store.

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Price and participation may vary. Single item at regular price

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cannot be combined with any other offer.