0:00

Hey their culture got this listeners. Before we

0:02

start the show, I wanna let you know

0:04

about a story coming up a little later.

0:06

It's from one of our partners. As a

0:08

P, A I comes at you fast. If

0:10

you don't get reliable and relevant advice, your

0:12

business might miss out. Whether you're looking to

0:14

automate tasks or embed ai and your business

0:16

processes, S A P can help. To.

0:18

Learn more had to sap.com/ai and

0:20

stick around for expert advice on

0:22

how to embrace a I with

0:24

confidence. Apple. Card is the

0:27

credit card created by Apple. You are

0:29

in three percent daily cash back when

0:31

you use that by the new Apple

0:33

Vision Pro or any products that Apple

0:35

and you can automatically grow your daily

0:37

cash at four point Five zero percent

0:40

annual percentage shield When you open a

0:42

high yield savings account, apply for Apple

0:44

Cart and the wallet app on I

0:46

Phone Apple Cards subject to credit approval,

0:48

savings available to Applecart owner subject eligibility

0:50

Apple Cart and Savings by Goldman Sachs

0:53

Bank Usa Salt Lake City branch member

0:55

Ft I see. Terms apply.

0:58

New. Mean. I'm

1:08

Steven Mcgovern's sleep will trigger first J

1:10

Lo this is what now Addition: It's

1:13

Wednesday, February twenty eighth. Two thousand and

1:15

one for on three show. This is

1:17

be no. A love Story is a

1:19

where no one quite knows what it

1:22

is. That many very funny descriptions. Of

1:24

what it might be out there. Are for

1:26

now it's a it's a companion

1:28

film, the Jennifer Lopez's new album. To

1:30

help make sense of this project, we're

1:33

joined by Wesley Morris of course, the

1:35

critic of large times and very old

1:37

from his program And then video reporters

1:40

for the Associated Press documented the siege

1:42

and ventral destruction of Ukrainian city.

1:44

Their footage now makes up the documentary

1:46

twenty Days in Marry a poll nominated

1:49

for best feature documentary at the Oscars,

1:51

and finally The Freaks came out to

1:53

write the definitive history of. The. Village

1:55

Voice, the radical paper, the changed American

1:58

culture. It's an oral history of the

2:00

first and my mind still greatest alternative

2:02

newspaper of all time to Village Voice.

2:05

Joining me today is Julia Turner, the

2:07

senior fellow at the U S C

2:09

N and Berg Journalism School, Julia Hey

2:12

Lamp and course Dan Stevens has the

2:14

film critic for a Sleep Aid Dana

2:16

and no hint of our it was

2:18

Here is what we can say for

2:21

sure this is Me Now A Love

2:23

Story is a companion film to Jennifer

2:25

Lopez's nights studio album and it's available

2:28

for viewing on Amazon Prime. The unmet.

2:31

It's a sign up for grabs. This

2:33

is a self funded twenty million dollar

2:35

what's it? vanity project. It definitely stars

2:38

Jennifer Lopez's i guess herself were. A

2:41

Not. At All Disguise the alter ego

2:43

she conceived and co wrote it And

2:45

it begins with a busily animated sequence

2:47

recounting a Porta Rican mets have two

2:49

lovers transformed respectively into a hummingbird in

2:51

a rose. And here I just have

2:53

to immediately see to the language of

2:55

our guest Wesley Morris Wesley. Welcome back

2:57

to the show You are of course

2:59

that critic a large the New York

3:02

Times and Co host the still processing

3:04

podcasts. Great to see you and Gray

3:06

Tabby bad Nice to be here. Thanks

3:08

for having nice to see you guys

3:10

as really nice. Ilya. Before we get

3:12

to Wesley, let's listen to a clip

3:14

from It In it. Lopez muses to

3:16

a new lover that they are of

3:18

Matt ordained by the stars, only for

3:20

him to snap and turn suddenly violent.

3:22

It's one of a string of ill

3:24

advised dalliances. Let's listen. Sign

3:28

say Lance as

3:30

you see that

3:32

and and. Meticulous.

3:36

most of. His.

3:49

Life as a compliment.

3:53

That's interesting. It.

4:04

Was. A.

4:07

Whole as soon as. We

4:10

know to see. More

4:12

know my mind that someone

4:15

is. I

4:18

mean. And the as the

4:20

Domestic Violence months has an artificial

4:22

at take a place in a

4:24

see through high rise if a

4:26

glass. House and. Glad

4:29

it's a glass has and it's a

4:31

glass. The dollhouse and with zero. Like.

4:34

The other six couples and the

4:36

glass dollhouse are in anything. Violent

4:40

and sadistic relationship through dance.

4:42

But hers is the only

4:44

one who's kink is really

4:46

big. It's not kink, it's

4:48

actual domestic violence. Where.

4:50

Is the other couples seem to be. Like.

4:53

It's seems to be part of their

4:55

their erotic. Yes, I think

4:57

I'd ways it's hit. The best way to explain what

4:59

this film is is. That bit as confused

5:01

analysis you just heard of that. Fifteen

5:03

seconds as you could do for for

5:05

every single sit here and seconds of

5:08

film that there is a lie. yes

5:10

it. outside of in this seem punk.

5:13

Factory where a gigantic steampunk

5:15

heart is collapsing and stealing

5:18

smoke. And

5:23

sailors and is doing feel with her seat.

5:27

Because of the existence of problem

5:29

of the quotes had a levels

5:31

being low which is some kind

5:33

of metaphor. Is

5:39

actually a weed out the said

5:41

novels. Like that

5:44

guy out there is a good die

5:46

us. The upon dial that goes into

5:48

the red signifies long at all levels

5:50

with says i guess how you feel

5:52

when you're no longer capable of love

5:54

because as your crisis of faith. In

6:01

Iraq, you ain't. Nothing

6:04

less sauce, death and then experiments

6:06

dancing. Much of a good. My

6:08

favorite number was Go! I want

6:10

to get actually back to the

6:13

to the Gene Tell he amazes

6:15

the and but which there is

6:17

also. ah, she does a single

6:19

in the Rain number that is

6:21

incredibly labored, which is the exact

6:23

opposite of what made them the

6:25

original say in the Rain What

6:28

It is. Dancing

6:30

is quite good. There's literally like

6:32

dirt. Love. Addicts.

6:35

Encounter Group. Dance session

6:37

with tears that I think. Also, she's.

6:40

Doing. Some. It's sign

6:42

language dance. and who's you have

6:44

that? Yeah, and then Paul. Receive from

6:46

a from the Sound of Metal. Is

6:49

the reads. The Love Addicts Anonymous

6:51

group where the charity had sing

6:54

been ties takes place. See

6:57

Reagan next week. I

6:59

know he was. Nobody gets. Easier

7:05

go to a hard. One, and we as

7:08

a mentor guy. Actually, exactly. Just pop.

7:10

I'm right in the Thera. There's also

7:12

a wonderful. I really enjoyed the the

7:14

Wedding Song. Where see this as three to

7:16

the did That is like her three simultaneous

7:19

weddings in a row. Soon

7:26

as. It's

7:40

the only inspired moment in the movie.

7:42

to me honestly that that sequences pretty

7:44

good. I

7:51

love it as. One. of the groom since

7:53

I think their. Power have for adam

7:55

had a sales people that same spot

7:57

from Dancing with the Stars which yeah

7:59

July without the or to fantasize what

8:02

if jail or dead financing with the

8:04

stars for for fifteen seconds of that

8:06

which is it's a great number has

8:09

no but. My.

8:14

Main thing I want to take up with the Wesley.

8:17

This. Is so bizarre. And.

8:19

It is so enjoyable by didn't

8:22

have it was like deeply vulnerable

8:24

bizarre nuns the I came away

8:26

from I was experience. Feeling

8:28

extremely warmly towards it

8:30

and her and. Typically.

8:33

When I am emotionally moved by something and then

8:35

I read. What you've written about it. I

8:37

think. Thank god. Now.

8:39

Wesley said everything I had thought. So I

8:41

know what I think and I can. Best man

8:43

at my very brains. In this instance,

8:46

I. Felt like your review of this.

8:49

In. It, you were. Kind of

8:51

like the stern teacher I didn't wanna

8:53

listen to. Identify

8:56

in this film. And

8:59

abiding deep yearning, striving, hustling,

9:01

restless sadness in J Lo

9:04

and I wanted to buy

9:06

into her story line at

9:08

now she finally happy and

9:11

you're kind of calling her

9:13

on. The bowl said, and I think you're

9:15

right But I'm so bummed because I was

9:17

so charmed. By how absolutely

9:19

fucking cook Hulu! Plus.

9:23

Rb Dana i'm not one hundred

9:25

and offering around. Or point here. I

9:27

don't know. I mean I keep a lot

9:29

of what we read in our In in

9:31

our prep doc reading. You know people's reactions

9:33

to this including didn't need York off at

9:35

Slate were sort of thing as as we

9:37

were. Julio just said like this is so

9:39

endearing in it's narcissism. I felt like I

9:41

like J Lo less after watching it and

9:43

I did not dislike her. I don't disrespect

9:45

her. I don't think that she doesn't have

9:47

you know gibson and things to give the

9:49

world but. To. Spend twenty million

9:51

dollars out of your own pocket and make

9:53

all these decisions. I kept thinking I kept

9:55

sort of read: conning the production moment. You

9:58

know that moment when she's sitting down. Production

10:00

meetings, you know, wearing sweats with the

10:02

hair and a messy bus. And and

10:05

she's talking with the production designer who's

10:07

in a making the digital petals or

10:09

whatever it is. He's making crafts. People

10:11

create all these things right? I mean,

10:14

it's a theory. Expensive looking pieces of

10:16

for the mullet. average Joe's right. Yeah,

10:18

and it felt extremely blinkered to me.

10:21

You know it didn't feel vulnerable and

10:23

away because because there's not a single

10:25

moment. Yes, there's no were hugging your

10:27

inner child. There's idea when and encounter.

10:30

Group dance scene and all of these

10:32

things that are sort of performing vulnerability.

10:34

but they're simply never a moment where

10:36

she doesn't look beautiful, where she doesn't

10:38

he know dance and a sexy way

10:40

where everything surrounding her is not impossibly

10:42

glossy and luxurious to like as absurd

10:44

campy degree. And at the moment that

10:47

always sticks with me as her throwing

10:49

her old love letters into the fire

10:51

while wearing this sort of like of

10:53

coral gauze nightgown that's about twenty feet

10:55

long with it of rain perfectly arranged

10:57

around her on oh that's very much

10:59

the vibe. Of this so so them

11:01

is the same time. It's sort of

11:03

goofily campion enjoyable, and it seems like

11:05

she must have had fun doing the

11:08

design works, but it seems like there's

11:10

a lot of throwing a ton of

11:12

money and design hurry and compensation at

11:14

this supposedly hole in her heart that

11:16

he singing about. It's not. Fun!

11:19

To watch? Really. I mean

11:21

at first you know your

11:23

irony comes between. You. Know

11:26

you him it and then the fun

11:28

can be hard but I you can

11:30

be never you never lost in it

11:32

has no flow, it's frenetic, we visual

11:34

and what it's supposed to add up

11:36

to is a parable of her finding

11:39

mental and spiritual health and it seems

11:41

to me which is offering his. Evidences

11:43

of you as he says and cute

11:45

diagnose it. Correctly. right?

11:48

She has these proliferated selves because

11:50

he got seems incredibly young and

11:52

is stayed globally famous ever since

11:54

you you are sort of being.

11:56

Like. May not ugly torn apart and

11:59

consumed by the whole world all the

12:01

time, and maybe whatever poor might have

12:03

developed or never had a chance. The

12:06

real path us to that end. Additionally,

12:08

you're love addict, right? You serially monogamous

12:10

li go from guy to guy thinking

12:12

they are quote unquote the one hence

12:15

the hummingbird parable. And as to bits

12:17

of evidence, you offer a. This

12:19

film. The. Most fragmented, fractured

12:22

when coherent you know, piece

12:24

of non are entering anyway.

12:26

I'm not enormously so very.

12:28

And second, And. The Seventies

12:30

of Evidence. And. I got back together

12:33

with Ben Affleck. and you're like. How

12:35

things are going to aid well but and

12:37

the more power to them I literally I

12:39

hope they are buried side by side and

12:41

for all of eternity hold hands. But I

12:43

mean it's just has the feeling of a

12:46

person saying I'm cured, i'm better, look on

12:48

better and in the way they say it,

12:50

in the tone and the neediness with which

12:52

they say it, they. Heartbreakingly demonstrate

12:54

you that they're not lot I actually think

12:56

I mean to all of your points because

12:59

I agree with I agree with all three

13:01

of you. Actually, Julia, I see. The.

13:03

Thing for me about the pleasure

13:06

that you're able to take in.

13:08

In her self presentation

13:11

is for me. I

13:13

wanted to feel that.

13:16

Except I also feel like there's

13:18

a way in which the meaning

13:20

of this whole thing it's has

13:22

gotten away from her. And it

13:24

isn't about vulnerability to me, it's

13:26

about exposure. Rate. I feel

13:29

like this is a person who

13:31

is exposed herself in C C

13:33

doesn't even know. That. The.

13:35

How this looks. Great. This

13:38

is different from like but a

13:40

massage. It is sick attacks against

13:42

women who have visions for themselves

13:44

and express them through art. It's

13:46

not what we say about a

13:48

Barbra Streisand or I mean to

13:50

some very different extent of beyond.

13:52

Say this to me is I

13:54

mean I'd screw any see. Puts.

13:57

Herself in a therapist's. Office.

14:00

For for seems. You.

14:03

Know and she doesn't get like I said.

14:05

Test is played by. Side so we

14:07

should Also to stipulate car was gonna

14:09

say like it's not our gone as

14:11

Van Zandt it's and hi dear to

14:14

me it's not somebody who was not

14:16

it's not freezer. crane wrapped itself is

14:18

not a guy. Although like is

14:20

definitely could be great. But added

14:22

that said that shows looking good but

14:24

I meet this guy who gave us

14:27

the immortalized Ginny You to bomb But.

14:29

I. Think see. It in

14:31

the way the were sort of thinking about

14:34

what was it like to like, look at

14:36

the pedal designs and legs, look at the

14:38

sets and like work out the choreography in

14:40

our we're going to Move Our Bodies and

14:43

wouldn't be great if this is this the

14:45

know in town recession it's a Lover Addicts

14:47

Anonymous session was actually done in American sign

14:49

language and and and and. But

14:52

was. There ever a moment where

14:54

somebody said he heads in. This

14:56

is what I'm saying. her loved ones need. To

14:58

speak the first intervention you know but I

15:01

mean foot I would I would be like

15:03

I wouldn't be like the you see what

15:05

has been swimming dollars in this unlike I

15:07

would. The question is do you know what

15:10

you're saying with this project. You

15:12

know, How it how

15:14

it looks. Nice lake. You're.

15:16

Making a fool yourself. but. There's

15:19

something really. Deep. Underneath

15:21

this and. You're

15:23

presenting. It to people like me

15:26

who. Enjoy! Studying the

15:28

work of artists. Of

15:30

all kinds. And what I'm seeing is

15:33

a continuation of a thing that began

15:35

when she was a fly girl. Rate.

15:38

All of that worked and

15:40

energy and driving commitment and

15:42

determination and one person in

15:44

my life. texted. Me:

15:47

That. You. Know the thing

15:49

that. Miss Lopez

15:52

has sort of. Misunderstood.

15:55

Or it's not. This is even misunderstood

15:57

it like the the the price already

15:59

that see me I'm. Being.

16:01

Such a hard worker! Is.

16:05

In. Her mind? perhaps? The.

16:07

Thing that should make her also the

16:09

best. Because. She's not the

16:12

greatest singer you ever gonna here. She

16:14

is not the greatest dance here

16:16

ever to see nor see the

16:19

greatest actress you ever going to

16:21

experience. but I don't know anybody

16:23

who works as hard as Jennifer

16:25

Lopez at being who they are.

16:27

And I think this showing you

16:30

the work, the labour. I mean

16:32

having herself be an actor for

16:34

labour in this thing like working

16:36

this fact this Love factory. With.

16:38

Such an admission of something.

16:41

That. I don't even know. See

16:43

No Sees admit. right?

16:46

But the idea is is present yourself as

16:48

a laborer. Specific. For

16:51

Love. Yeah. I

16:53

mean that's why I was so depressed.

16:55

defined your argument, persuasive were funny cause

16:57

I was a easily i'm not the

16:59

press on ebay and pervasive. Because

17:02

I want. I want her to be

17:04

happy. but it is. True, I know

17:06

from both the you know every we all

17:08

know from the people in our lives who

17:11

are struggling with saying. It's

17:13

like that moment when you are. Truly.

17:17

Shield. Is. Not the

17:19

moment where you're like, look, look look look look

17:21

look like any other millennial. Any a man yelled

17:23

you know, like I have to be quieter, have

17:25

to be. In. Yourself and not for

17:27

anybody else that you. That.

17:29

I'm rooting for the process.

17:31

We been rooting for thirty

17:34

years. That's the thing. Like,

17:36

I like this horse. Or.

17:39

Wesley? What? As always. Is.

17:41

So amazing! How are you on the So To

17:43

talk? I wish we'd do more often. Thanks for

17:45

climbing out of you guys! And you know I

17:47

mean every time I'm listening to the So, I'm

17:49

like. I'm not

17:51

really studio and I'm I get I get to

17:54

do it in your face. Up my game

17:56

knowing that you're listening. I know you're

17:58

talking about. right?

18:01

Well it's this is Meet.dot.now

18:03

a love story. It's. A

18:06

Jennifer Lopez joint. It's on Amazon

18:08

Prime. Check it out! I

18:10

didn't have before we go any further. This is typically

18:12

where we discuss business, where we have to pay. See

18:15

if we had kill and the business today. The

18:17

first one is really small A just a correction

18:19

or something I said on a cell a few

18:22

weeks ago back before I went on vacation. We

18:24

were talking about True Detective on H B O

18:26

and I mentioned Fiona saw his is really wonderful

18:28

in a secondary role in that cell and I

18:31

called her and English or British actress. I should

18:33

never speak about the nationality of anyone from the

18:35

islands in that part of the world because I

18:37

always get it wrong. But an Irish listener very

18:40

kindly wrote in to politely tell me that she

18:42

is in fact an Irish woman. She's often during

18:44

a British. Accent or playing in English person

18:46

sees as the plane American and true detective.

18:48

but yes Fiona saw the great hails from

18:50

the land of Ireland are only other I'd

18:52

have a business this week is tell You

18:54

that are Sleep last segment this week which

18:56

is kind of a surprise surprise us as

18:58

well. We had a different plan for Slate.

19:00

plus that when Wesley Morris beloved longtime friend

19:02

of the program and New York Times writer

19:04

in podcasts are came into talk to us

19:06

about the J Lo. Autobiographical movie

19:09

which will get to later. We ended up

19:11

having this really really fun conversation accidently on

19:13

Mike before we started taping were Wesley who

19:15

is a big listener to Are so asked

19:17

us about a previous topic we talked about.

19:19

We started getting into talking about that movie

19:21

them we asked him about a movie. Next

19:23

thing you know we're just kind of chopping

19:25

it up with Wesley and it was such

19:27

a good conversation that we thought we would

19:29

include that bonus material as a plus if

19:31

you belong to sleep. Plus you will hear

19:33

that at the end of Are. So if

19:35

you don't use, become a member by going

19:37

to sleep.com/culture Plus. When you do, you

19:39

get ad free podcasts. you get unlimited access

19:41

to all of the writing and podcasting on

19:44

Slate so that you never hit a pay

19:46

wall and you hear special segments like the

19:48

one I just described with Wesley Morris. These

19:50

membership or really what helps keep us going.

19:52

So please sign up today as sleep.com/culture Plus

19:54

Acid in a can. I add one more

19:57

piece of business to the agenda. Surge have

19:59

been so. Couple of years we

20:01

like to ask. Our listeners to.

20:04

Do a little vandalism or

20:06

shall we. Marked it

20:08

fairly quietly, But last year was

20:10

actually. Are sixteenth you're doing the show

20:12

the we are barreling towards our sixteenth

20:15

anniversary which in the dog Years of

20:17

podcast say I can't wait for the

20:19

or a history of the calls her

20:21

dad's asked and now we hadn't entered

20:23

the culture chat show and Mom you

20:25

know who, exactly what Norman Millar said

20:27

tissue and who he nearly murdered while

20:29

we did it. By it you know

20:32

it's been, it's been a quieter history

20:34

but nonetheless we are still so. Grateful

20:36

to be able to the Aca that

20:38

every week and testicular cancer and selflessness

20:41

like you and listeners like Wesley more

20:43

us and we would love for you

20:45

to them to express so please If

20:47

you are a fan of this show.

20:50

Tell. Of friends downloaded on somebody elses

20:52

podcast app and get them to

20:54

listen. It's still. Very helpful if

20:57

you like. Our. Show or

20:59

leave a comment on the various apps

21:01

he listened on. There are a lot

21:03

of says. I will point out that

21:05

every week say don't forget. To like and

21:07

subscribe on bah bah bah bah unless we do not say

21:09

that you. Every. Week because we know it

21:12

will become white noise and norm. Instead

21:14

we lion lead and every eighteen to

21:16

thirty months we say. Now now is

21:19

the moment. So now now is

21:21

the moment. Please go give a

21:23

give a couple. Positive signals to the

21:25

algorithm. If you're a fan of the

21:27

show way I would just love to

21:29

signed As you new Listeners At this

21:31

moment of protests history of people seem

21:33

to be kind of we engaging with

21:36

me and so if you like us

21:38

share. And. Ten.

21:41

Nothing able to get a hold of any one. When you have

21:43

questions about your credit card. With. Twenty

21:45

Four Seven Us based Life Customer service

21:47

from Discover. Everyone has the option. To

21:50

talk to a real person any time, day or

21:52

night. Yes, You heard that right? you? Can.

21:54

Talk to human on the discover customer service

21:56

team any time. So. The next

21:58

time you have a question about your credit

22:00

card, call one eight hundred Discover to get

22:02

the service users. Limitations apply

22:04

He termed as Discover. Com/credit

22:06

Card. This podcast is brought to you

22:08

by Fleet Studios and S A P.

22:13

Ai is moving so fast. If

22:15

you get reliable and rather than

22:17

advice, your business might miss out.

22:19

Welcome to Dear Rt and advice

22:21

column from As A T where

22:23

we tackle the tricky questions at

22:25

the intersection of Ai and business.

22:27

Here's our expert: the technology fee,

22:29

Trust and com Hi! I'm excited.

22:32

Dive into today's question. Steer

22:35

rt of our company. It sounds so too

22:38

are. Hiring efforts, how can I

22:40

help us attract top talent?

22:42

Signed. Searching for Higher Power.

22:44

So searching for higher power?

22:46

One of the most daunting

22:48

undertakings often Hr leader to

22:50

date is building a new

22:52

team. And finding and reading new

22:55

talent. This is a. Very time

22:57

consuming process and can take precious

22:59

organizational resources as a companion to

23:01

be as your team. Ai technology

23:04

can be used to create job

23:06

descriptions, analyzed candidate resumes, and sell

23:08

for candidates into various fools based

23:11

on experience, skills, or any other

23:13

parameter. You can also use He

23:16

I to match internal talent with

23:18

positions. available. Parameters for this can

23:20

be set. Rules can be said

23:23

that can all be done to

23:25

the algorithm. There were so

23:27

many things that we as humans

23:29

could beast not looking at that

23:32

he I can do in a

23:34

matter of seconds embrace. A

23:36

eyewitnesses had to

23:38

sap.com/ai. To learn more. The.

23:44

First Twenty Days as the Russian invasion

23:46

of Ukraine was devoted in no small

23:48

part to capturing the city of Marry

23:50

A Poll, a strategically critical port city

23:53

in Ukraine. Documentary Twenty Days and Marry

23:55

A Poll begins with than normal pacific

23:57

seemingly high functioning metropolis Them There are

23:59

some rumors of for never but only

24:02

partial evacuation, a plume of smoke on

24:04

the horizon and then what can one

24:06

even say? You end up by the

24:08

end of the film with mass graves

24:11

in the wasteland of rubble. The film

24:13

is together from hours of video footage

24:15

taken by in a peep video journalist

24:17

and is to colleagues and a documents

24:20

up close and gruesome li one atrocity

24:22

after another most infamously the bombing of

24:24

the maternity ward. along the way to

24:26

trying to counter the mind bending propaganda

24:29

campaign by putting. To cover

24:31

up is true aims and methods.

24:33

It's been nominated for the Academy

24:35

Award for best feature documentary. In

24:38

the clip, were going to be

24:40

brought inside a hospital in the

24:42

besieged city. Were exhausted doctors and

24:44

staff send off despair, a supplies

24:47

run desperately low. Let's listen. Patients

24:50

are moved away from the windows.

24:53

And day after day a conditions

24:55

in the hospital. Last.

24:59

Census One A The voice. After

25:04

smiles him. As

25:06

a hero whisper that his link

25:08

me to be amputee with. The

25:12

or are almost no antibiotics. Last.

25:16

Season Ten I think we felt. Strongly.

25:19

That we had to do it. Not. Simply because

25:21

it was nominated for this award. Does

25:25

a compelling moral reasons to watch it

25:27

and try to understand what's going on

25:29

on the ground in Ukraine. At the

25:31

same time, one would be reluctant. To.

25:35

Insist that someone see it's it's.

25:38

I. Think it's the single most difficult thing

25:40

I've ever watched on film in my

25:42

life. I can think of anything that

25:44

approaches. It's hires. It's unflinching. Let's start

25:46

there. would you make of this? Don't

25:49

like a lot of people in a be

25:51

like you to as well. I've been putting

25:53

off watching this movie all year. I've been hearing

25:55

about how this list and extraordinary documentary. In

25:57

from the nominate Discharge Premier Testicles It's

25:59

now. The front runner to win

26:01

vs. documentary the Oscars which is part of

26:04

Whites were talking about it because we haven't

26:06

really covered that category but it also occupy

26:08

since entirely different category of as you say

26:10

steve things that. You. Really

26:13

should watch just because. They.

26:15

Are at the truth? The here's that

26:17

something that's happening that is easy to turn

26:19

away from That is it so hard

26:21

to experience? And the question of what

26:23

the sort of just for is is very

26:26

central to the documentary itself. The question

26:28

of how to watch, how not to look

26:30

away, what's this footage means and who

26:32

it helps that it exists in the world

26:34

and or and that was I hadn't

26:36

expected so much. I don't think is

26:38

it it is not just raw footage from

26:41

a war zone, but it is very

26:43

much of a film about how information is.

26:45

Transmitted right. From from a

26:47

place where. On the ground suffering.

26:49

Is. Happening to a place where people it's more

26:51

comfortable setting as or you know far across

26:53

the globe can encounter it and is a

26:55

lot as soon as in this documentary that

26:57

you see twice a like the maternity hospital

26:59

we see the the actual sort of real

27:01

time raw footage on the ground of them

27:04

running. I mean it makes you think about

27:06

hand held camera in a whole different way

27:08

to watch a movie where people are running

27:10

for their lives as they're taking the footage

27:12

rates so we see it sort of being

27:14

coming together on the ground and then later

27:16

on we see the parts of that you

27:18

know the see little moments. The few shots

27:20

that make it onto through the A P why

27:22

does it make it onto the news around the

27:24

world are everywhere except in Russia it seems, right?

27:26

You see them on the Australian news and the

27:29

Japanese news and the American news and you see

27:31

that it's been reduced yes is to sort of

27:33

a small bite of what it was right. but

27:35

it also is. Being. Transmitted in some

27:37

in some way in a big part. Also

27:39

of the the drama, the apps and of this

27:42

movie is them attempting to get the footage

27:44

out. So in addition to filming it, there's these

27:46

moments where they're going through a city where

27:48

communications have been cut off, there isn't any internet,

27:50

there's no electricity and A and trying to

27:52

find a way. It's good enough

27:54

as a signal that they can at least send a

27:56

little bit of footage out to the world. So this

27:58

is not just a dancer. Tree about civilians

28:01

in warfare which is almost exclusively with

28:03

a film, right? We don't really see

28:05

soldiers fighting is a few Ukrainian soldiers

28:08

who were sort of hurting people around

28:10

once in awhile. But what you're really

28:12

seeing is absolutely innocence. You know, women,

28:15

children, families being bombarded. But we're also

28:17

talking about information channels in the Twenty

28:19

First century, right? So I I just

28:21

with. I was astounded at how

28:24

much was going on, how much thinking was

28:26

going on. In addition to you know all

28:28

the feeling is going on as you watch

28:30

these images while sitting here. Use of the

28:33

word unflinching is really interesting Dana because it

28:35

is unflinching that I think sometimes. When

28:37

you see and I'm sensing

28:39

documentary, there's almost dead defiance.

28:42

About it. Like look what I looked

28:44

at you that a look at it

28:46

too. And one of the things I

28:48

really admired about this documentary is that.

28:51

There. Is great sympathy for

28:53

the impulse to flinch.

28:56

With. In it and grade. And

28:58

of grief and curiosity about what is

29:00

the. Point. And value

29:02

of capturing. This.

29:05

Terrifying. An awful. Material

29:08

like the humanity as.

29:11

The work really comes through and as part

29:13

of why I would encourage people to find

29:15

the time to watch this this, even though

29:17

it is. Grim. It's

29:19

not just because it is grim, which

29:21

I think is sometimes the answer. Like

29:24

because the discriminate is our responsibility to

29:26

look at the goodness of the world.

29:28

I was struck so often by the

29:30

Surrealism. In the

29:33

footage by the human instinct

29:35

I think the same as

29:38

very attentive to the human

29:40

instinct to. Kind. Of

29:42

not even be able to process

29:44

atrocity this awful to want to

29:46

believe that it is okay to

29:48

usher each other. It is okay

29:51

in moments where it is very

29:53

definitely not as both. An

29:55

important. Human defense mechanism

29:57

for also kind of awful. And

30:00

I know. The film opens with.

30:03

The journalists encountering a distraught woman on the street

30:05

and telling her go home you'll be safe in

30:07

your basement or not that a bomb Civilians and

30:10

than hours later. For. The Russians

30:12

have, and so. That.

30:14

The. Film. And she's very curious about

30:17

that. instinct to flinch. That instinct

30:19

to look away. The instinct to

30:21

tell yourself things will be okay,

30:23

must be okay, and hundred they

30:25

incapacity as human. Experience

30:27

even process something less awful. And then I

30:30

think also an inquiry about the value of

30:32

journalism, right? and like what is even the

30:34

point of documenting this and getting it out?

30:36

In a world where. You

30:38

know the Russians will dismiss it as service. Crisis

30:41

actor propaganda and sort of say

30:44

oh no, we never bond that

30:46

maternity hospital does. Pregnant people were

30:48

not blown to bits. Does Davies

30:50

didn't die? This is all fake.

30:52

like it it it's just heart

30:54

wrenching. Am that to so. Why

30:56

is? Is. Very wise in a

30:59

way that I. Was. Astounded

31:01

by yeah are are totally concur

31:03

with and both he said or

31:05

it's a movie did it first

31:07

you aren't sure use is nothing

31:09

persian the battle nothing is that

31:11

a sized a lot. Of privacy given

31:13

to the victims who are film to and terms

31:15

of not showing their faces. Look it, that's true

31:17

but once it also say. A

31:19

sense of violating privacy. Even this there

31:21

was concerned. or even as the faces

31:24

blurred. I've never seen things like this

31:26

filmed right. I mean, I am. I

31:28

can't even speak them out loud there.

31:31

So. Just utterly

31:33

horrifying and. To. See

31:35

it. I. Mean, it's a

31:37

really elemental human instinct, right?

31:39

Like there's a reason we

31:42

have these elaborate rituals around

31:44

the dead to covering the.

31:46

Party. With the she wrote the

31:48

idea that you bury ritualistically and

31:50

more realize the dead and these

31:52

highly rid ritualistic ways. A corpse

31:55

is not an object among other

31:57

objects in the world. it's and

31:59

it's in the measure between what

32:01

a living person is and a

32:03

dead person is all that we

32:05

actually are and can't quite name

32:07

are fully understand. You know, consciousness

32:09

and lice themselves have left the

32:11

physical thing leaving us with this

32:13

object that we treat with a

32:15

kind of reverence and to not

32:17

treat it with reverence as the

32:19

Russians are in some sense rights

32:21

not only killing but then creating

32:23

a world in which mass graves

32:25

or the way some of these

32:27

people meet their final resting place,

32:29

it. Is a desecration right and not

32:32

treated corpse with a reverence is like

32:34

a deeply human violation of our. Values.

32:37

It's evil and so violating with the

32:40

camera lens is not not an issue

32:42

right? There's a reason why things like

32:44

this have never appeared in front of

32:46

your eyes before on a screen that

32:49

still makes the case. I think that

32:51

the actually the Some doesn't make the

32:53

case. The Some allows Ukrainians to make

32:55

the case that this has to be

32:58

filmed principally to people stand out. there

33:00

is a doctor who very early on

33:02

his ears literally watching him lose of

33:04

innocent persons. And

33:07

he just turns in he says

33:10

illness. Stillness showed that. Putting.

33:13

What he's doing so the world with

33:15

that spurs doing to us And at

33:17

that moment. Whatever. I'm impressed.

33:19

I can only speak for me would

33:22

have a qualm I had watching the

33:24

movie was totally gone and the second

33:26

characters this kind of amazing Ukrainian cop

33:28

I think he is. he's police officer

33:30

if is just trying to maintain some

33:32

degree of order and safety realizing. understanding.

33:35

Knowing ahead of time with the

33:37

Russian probably black is white white

33:39

as blacks Russian propaganda campaign is

33:41

gonna be like knows how important

33:43

it is to escort this team

33:46

to some one spot in the

33:48

entire city. That. Still has

33:50

something like a Sat connection or an internet

33:52

connection or whatever it is in order to

33:54

get the can only upload like ten seconds

33:56

at a time. But literally the war can

33:58

be won and lost. Right? like the

34:01

Us Congress that might have some

34:03

isolationist or and cruel pollutants sentiment

34:05

in it's that might forestall funding

34:07

rights like that. Backbone could just

34:09

melt away. In a world where

34:11

Tucker Carlson has you know, the

34:13

ear of red state America to

34:15

have these images in front of

34:17

people's So the double think doublespeak

34:19

campaign of Kuittinen is flunkies doesn't

34:21

take root, even in the right

34:23

wing mind in America that was

34:25

used to have that happen. And

34:27

so. The. Film without. Being.

34:30

Aggressive about it, makes the case

34:32

that you ought to watch and

34:34

the final thing out to say

34:36

is that this is a profoundly

34:38

non narrative and an honest that

34:40

a sized experience to watch this

34:42

and it just reminds us how

34:44

much violence we consume in. Media

34:47

that narrow devised. In.

34:50

A way that things turn out okay,

34:52

like there's some redemptive aspect of violence,

34:54

and as that, a sized doesn't. Actually,

34:56

that's not what violence looks like. this

34:59

kind of thing, Ming being it's almost

35:01

like little kids with finger guns in

35:03

movies, you know, And I hate to

35:05

say there's something healthy about remembering that

35:08

silences. And ultimately

35:10

ugly asked. And there's

35:12

no reducing. Made any

35:14

Which is why this this movie makes you

35:17

think about war as an abstract concept and

35:19

not only about this particular were so right,

35:21

It's Gaza. I mean, it's any place that

35:23

civilians are dying on the ground, so there's

35:26

a senses real moral urgency to watching it

35:28

where you feel like how could this ever

35:30

have been allowed to happen anywhere in human

35:32

history, much less be happening constantly all over

35:35

the world for as long as there has

35:37

been humanity. Yeah, and I think part of

35:39

the Greece's it. Is.

35:42

And you know. It is not an effect

35:44

as. Rang. We.

35:47

We'd have none other as the

35:49

Sunday and the film as understand

35:51

that getting the images out won't

35:53

necessarily change the course of anything

35:55

in and. Director speaks about adding

35:57

sat in as every. For

36:00

the process committed and last

36:02

ten years which is many

36:04

and so are I fell

36:06

really. Affected by the juxtaposition

36:08

of this broad footage they've shot

36:11

where you get a little sense

36:13

of the heart breaking stories of

36:16

these people and how they are

36:18

then presented. On cable news. Which.

36:20

Is both a victory and the goal and

36:22

the thing they are fighting for were in

36:25

this document a right to get the footage

36:27

out to prove that. This bombing of the

36:29

maternity ward happen to then go at

36:31

great personal risk to the hospital where

36:33

some other systems were moved to the

36:36

and either have their babies are not

36:38

am and there's a truly astounding seen

36:40

that made me. Weep when we

36:42

get to the hospital with Century that night.

36:44

I meant they won't spoil here by. He

36:47

noted to then go follow up to

36:49

follow these victims to prove to the

36:52

people am I need to be proved

36:54

to although they won't be provable to

36:56

them that these were not accept actors

36:58

pretending to be in a band maternity

37:00

hospital. And. That just. The

37:03

fact that getting year. Kind

37:05

of to second clip on cable news

37:08

is that. Kind. Of victory

37:10

they are fighting for in

37:12

this information war and. Seeing how

37:15

reduce those images are even though of

37:17

course it was. Astounding.

37:19

In the early days of the word

37:21

to have this record of the civilian

37:23

attack and cancel t you know it's

37:25

like getting are you even turning into

37:27

came on. As when you turn into

37:29

cable news. How reduced is that? Like

37:32

little nip that that says proof that

37:34

bad thing happened but doesn't quite open

37:36

you up to the experience of the

37:38

atrocity. In the same way.

37:40

And even that. Achievement

37:42

of getting in into cable news

37:45

is is decreasingly something that contentment

37:47

or to and policy like the

37:49

futility of it is just bleak

37:51

even in this very the context

37:53

of this very. Wrenching,

37:55

And human cell spur true. So this

37:57

is to suits were in an opposition.

38:00

Where. One. Wants to

38:02

urge people to watch Twenty Days and

38:04

Marry a Poland's Streaming Now it's on

38:06

Amazon at the same time. People.

38:10

Have to know what they're encountering going

38:12

in. so. You. Just

38:14

have to be prepared to pause

38:16

it turned off, maybe walk away.

38:18

It's it's It's very intense, but

38:21

you have to be prepared to

38:23

see violence. Against Civilian

38:25

innocence had an extreme

38:27

level without. Adding

38:30

a way for you are innocent.

38:32

The viewers immediate benefit so. I

38:36

think we all agree one ought to see this

38:38

of one can do it. And anyway, let's move

38:40

on. This.

38:42

Episode is brought to you by S A P. First.

38:45

The bad news: Sep Business A.

38:47

I won't help you generate cubist

38:49

versions of your family holiday photos,

38:52

but it will help you understand

38:54

which supplier best to help. You

38:56

will let your plant based packaging

38:58

in Southeast Asia identify the training

39:00

your junior project manager needs to

39:02

rise up the ranks and automate

39:04

repetitive tasks while you focus on

39:06

big innovations so you can be

39:08

ready for the next opportunity. Revolutionary

39:10

technology, real world results that S

39:12

A P Business A I. Tell

39:15

me about your mom is kitchen. That.

39:17

Simple Request opens up a flooded, delicious

39:20

memories and it's at the center of

39:22

the audible Original Podcast Your Mama's Kitchen

39:24

on Your Mom Kitchen post Michelle Norris

39:27

talks to Guess Like Michelle Obama, The

39:29

When Indo Oil, Leslie Jones, Matthew Mcconaughey,

39:31

and more about how their earliest culinary

39:34

experiences help save their personal and professional

39:36

lives and appears. Each guest brings a

39:38

recipe for a favorite dish from their youth season.

39:40

taste a bit of their story. It's

39:42

a seal that cuisine and culture,

39:44

ingredients, And identities and the meals and.

39:46

Memories that make us who we are, Signed.

39:49

Your mother's kitchen anyway. Listen. Part.

39:52

Will. The Village Voice is the rape

39:55

of weekly newspaper of course. It was

39:57

started by among others Norman Mailer to

39:59

other in the need nineteen fifties. It's

40:02

still the original and great flagship alt

40:04

Weekly and there's a new oral history

40:06

of it. It's called The Freaks Came

40:08

out to write the definitive history of

40:11

the Village Voice. the radical paper, the

40:13

changed American cultured. Such two hundred interviews

40:15

with you name it, writers, editors, photographers,

40:18

cartoonists compiled by.tricia Amano who worked at

40:20

The Voice Science Leader says Julia Let

40:22

me start with you, I mean Paulson

40:24

Whitehead Jack New Feel that way bird

40:27

dizzying porn A Great Titles five for

40:29

I mean on on on on on.

40:31

This newspaper's launched so many huge journalistic

40:34

careers. It occupied such a dominant space

40:36

in the consciousness of left her counterculture

40:38

America those even more than than more

40:40

expensive than that's what was your experience

40:43

with a Voice growing up. I'm really

40:45

curious what it meant to you just

40:47

as a kid like when I was

40:50

a revelation to encounter. It's and what

40:52

does it mean retrospectively now that you're

40:54

an editor with a lot of experience

40:56

making things like and well, It's

40:59

interesting because I think. Site.

41:01

Actually, I'm in our weekly kid

41:04

even now I would not like

41:06

a voice. Reader in a Island Malik

41:08

subscribing from Massachusetts like the The Edison

41:10

New York Magazine and that the case

41:13

and culture that made It's way to

41:15

Me as a child. The

41:17

little pockets of windows into Weldon

41:19

Sensibility where. You know, Sassy

41:21

Magazine which was a farm and as

41:23

kind of indie rock t magazine in

41:25

the nineties. I also read Bonfire of

41:28

the Vanities around this time say like a very. Kind

41:30

of funny. Sense. I think of with

41:32

eighties New York was as a child so I

41:34

wouldn't I did not grow up a voice reader,

41:37

but somehow on the course of my journalistic career

41:39

I like ended up at places with our weekly.

41:41

Sensibility is like there were two newspapers in my

41:43

high school, the Brad Seed and the Raf Us

41:45

Weekly and I worked at the Raf as weekly.

41:48

And then there were two newspapers. And my college

41:50

the ground daily out on the console. and

41:52

Abandon and I ended up editing though wrap

41:54

his weekly college and Abandon and then. in

41:57

and say it as an intern a magazine but it's

41:59

only in some sensibility of a,

42:02

you know, sardonic person leaning in the corner

42:04

and kind of poking at the straight news,

42:06

coming at it sideways and with an angle

42:08

and with a twist. So I

42:10

feel like The Village Voice created

42:12

the journalistic water I've

42:15

swam in my whole life,

42:17

but I have not actually spent a ton of time

42:19

with it as an object. And by the time I

42:22

moved to New York, it was not the primary interpreter

42:25

of New York for me, which is

42:27

part of what makes this book, which

42:29

is very lively and

42:31

really well constructed as an oral

42:33

history. There are taught, tight, well

42:35

paced, exciting ways to make an

42:37

oral history. And there are sloppy,

42:39

lazy, I didn't really feel like

42:41

writing today ways to make an oral history. And

42:44

this is definitely firmly in the first bucket, I

42:46

think, curious to hear what you guys think of

42:48

just being like a real achievement of thinking and

42:50

editing in a way that I admire. So it's

42:52

just fun. It's like going

42:54

to the source. So I'm enjoying

42:57

it as a reveal of the

42:59

origin and a look at the Wizard of Oz behind

43:01

the curtain. But I'm curious for

43:03

you guys who I imagine having arrived in New York earlier than

43:05

I maybe had different relationships

43:07

with the paper. Julia, actually, I

43:09

think although I'm a bit older than you, we probably

43:11

started our lives and our professional lives in New York

43:13

at around the same time. The Voice was free in

43:15

boxes by the time I got here. It was not

43:18

the only alt weekly. I mean, it was the time

43:20

where there was also the New York press and probably

43:22

other alt weeklies too. It was kind of the heyday

43:24

of the free alt weekly, very, very early 21st century.

43:28

And what really struck me

43:30

reading these great testimonials from all

43:32

the great veterans that Tricia Romano

43:35

interviewed is how

43:37

storied that history was and how the Voice just seemed like it

43:39

would always be there. I mean,

43:41

even more so than many other papers, I

43:43

think it seemed like it was this, yeah,

43:46

just this sort of pimple of

43:48

bohemia that would always be there.

43:50

There would always be some incredibly

43:53

long reported story about, you know,

43:55

landlord malfeasance that you couldn't finish

43:57

because it was 10,000 words long. And

44:00

then there would be a bunch of really raunchy sex

44:02

ads in the back. And

44:04

what else was always in there? There'd always be

44:06

a piece of very highbrow film criticism, right? I

44:08

mean, Andrew Sarris wrote For the Voice for many,

44:11

many years. Yeah, Hoberman. And Jay Hoberman. But even

44:13

after they were gone, you know, Michael Atkinson, I

44:15

think still writes for the Voice website. You know,

44:17

it was a particular flavor of film criticism that

44:19

was, you know, just sort of snobbish,

44:21

right? I mean, just sort of assuming that like, of

44:23

course, the big popular movie of

44:25

the week is completely worthy of disdain. But

44:28

maybe there's a sort of Marxist counter reading

44:30

of it that could be interesting. Anyway, I

44:32

mean, all I can say about The Voice is that even

44:34

if it wasn't something that I grabbed and read every week,

44:37

there was just the sense that it was this, I don't

44:40

know, this staple of

44:42

New York life. And there's really a sense

44:44

reading this of what disappeared when it disappeared.

44:46

But Steve, what about you? You probably did

44:48

grow up reading The Voice. I did. Yeah,

44:50

no, it was funny. Even though

44:52

I was growing up in New York City, I was growing up in a

44:55

starchy waspy in its own weird way, provincial

44:57

corner of it. So it was still a

44:59

missive from another planet and one that I

45:01

was profoundly grateful for was Jack

45:03

Neufeld or someone associated with it said, yeah, I think

45:05

about The Voice is like 50% of its great, 50%

45:08

of its awful. And

45:10

no one can agree which 50% is which, right? It's

45:14

like there was something in there for everybody. We use

45:17

words like left or

45:19

socialistic or counter cultural

45:22

or whatever. The oral

45:24

history demonstrates an enormous pride even people

45:26

who fit that description took in writing

45:28

for a paper that also had very

45:31

frankly conservative voices writing in it.

45:33

It was a real grab bag and people were

45:36

allowed to fight one another. So backing up a

45:38

little bit and pulling out a little bit, it's

45:40

sort of a, you could almost argue it's like

45:42

that paper was the product of two wars, right?

45:45

It was started by three World War II veterans

45:47

who moved to New York City after the war in

45:51

the comics, mailer being the famous one, but

45:53

two friends of his and they

45:56

brought that ethos, right? Of like, okay, well, it's

45:58

a whole new world. Like there is. We

46:00

forget this, right? But there was a

46:02

tabula rasa in

46:04

the post-war period where everything

46:07

kind of failed and then there

46:09

was the Depression and now we're finally out of

46:11

the Depression, the good times are back, there's some

46:14

degree of affluence, and New York was really reinvented

46:16

in that period. That's the city where

46:19

Andy Warhol moves here from Pittsburgh and

46:21

becomes like a young aspiring graphic designer

46:23

for ads. I mean, that was a

46:25

really percolating city that was discovering a

46:27

completely new identity. And

46:30

the voice was part of that, started in 1955, okay? So

46:32

this paper in height of what it's

46:36

thought of now as conformist

46:38

America, Eisenhower America, so

46:41

it predates so much of

46:43

what we... Or let me put it

46:45

this, I'll put it even stronger, it's not only that

46:47

it predates so much of the signifiers that we use

46:49

to describe what it was. Right, it wasn't a

46:51

hippy paper to begin with, right? It was a

46:54

beat paper. It was sort of a

46:56

beat paper, but above all, I think

46:58

what it did is it invented the

47:00

city we now all live in. It

47:02

invented the imaginative community of

47:04

a city whose bohemianness

47:07

is, even when it's opposed, is

47:09

sort of essential to its identity

47:12

and sense of itself. And it traces

47:15

the arc of that going from a

47:17

minority sensibility to the default sensibility. I

47:20

mean, oligarchs with a trillion

47:22

dollars in the bank moved to the city

47:24

in part because of the city, the voice

47:26

in some sense. In other words, I think

47:28

the paradigm of urbanity that we all feed

47:31

off of now that created

47:34

Soho. I mean, the paper literally saved

47:36

the neighborhood of Soho by reporting on

47:38

Robert Moses' plans for it in conjunction

47:41

with Jane Jacobs, who's now credited with

47:43

saving it from a giant super highway

47:45

that would have bifurcated Lower Manhattan and

47:47

destroyed it as we know

47:49

it. It allowed Soho to thrive. It allowed

47:52

downtown Manhattan to become the thing that we

47:54

coherently think of as like Greenwich

47:57

Village, which has now moved on to Brooklyn,

47:59

to Bushwick. The route and further out

48:01

and then when global certain it's higher. Consciousness.

48:04

Of How To Be And I'm a

48:06

modern urbanite and I think it was

48:08

a victim of it's own success in

48:10

some sense. And then of course, so

48:13

many of the energies transferred. To. The

48:15

internet to personality driven writing by people

48:17

whose barrier to entry into put in

48:19

cook professional, being a journalist or a

48:21

critic is is nil. When his night

48:24

and said hi and dumb it lost

48:26

its business model and it's uniqueness and

48:28

unfortunately is on the disappear. Yeah

48:31

I love with you guys are saying. About how publication

48:33

can send a curry as sense and

48:35

sensibility of the city and it's been

48:37

really interesting to think about that in

48:39

in beginning to look from more of

48:41

an academic lens at the Los Angeles

48:43

media landscape which are a years. You.

48:46

Know it is to have the Herald

48:48

Examiner up and have left the art

48:50

hippie newspaper in. There were as a

48:52

period when L A Weekly was that

48:54

robust alt weekly voice out here and

48:56

it is now sort of is on

48:58

the side version of itself. Ah you

49:00

know Los Angeles Magazine as also kind

49:02

of a hollowed out. Not

49:04

be version of itself like that.

49:07

And the and Los Angeles is a city. With so

49:09

many identities and such a mosaic of identity

49:12

is that the role that a publication. Can.

49:14

Play in kind of articulating a sensibility

49:16

in a sense of place in south

49:18

and community is really interesting to think

49:20

through because. It's. There in

49:22

the name right it's the Village

49:25

Boys. It used to this particular

49:27

place within New York. As

49:29

almost an avatar for a sensibility that

49:32

it came to represent New York as

49:34

an idea and it's interesting to think

49:36

about that. Send. The vents

49:38

planet as Angeles which is so. Sprawling.

49:41

And and of the point of it

49:43

is that there is no center and

49:45

that everybody has their own little version

49:47

of it. That and loving this book

49:49

it's a tone. it's a really sprightly

49:51

tomb is such a thing can exist

49:53

as if is the sentences editors two

49:55

meters. I would really answer that with

49:57

him into it. Can. Be. Dealing with and.

50:00

Maybe add to our whole discussion is

50:02

that the book doesn't sound like we

50:04

sound right now. It's not an abstract

50:06

analysis of journalism the past and future.

50:08

It's really, really colorful, funny. Sexy.

50:10

Weird. Is this a history of a whole

50:12

bunch Of very course he's writers trying to

50:15

inhabit this really cramped sits up. This is

50:17

it is a really really good oral history

50:19

in terms of giving you the texture of

50:21

a time in a place and at the

50:24

scene. Or. Will The Book

50:26

is the Freaks came out to right

50:28

by. Edited by and compiled by Tricia

50:30

Romano. This one, if you're at all

50:32

into this kind of things, second out:

50:34

it's incredibly fun. Hi.

50:54

For Apple Cart and the wallet app

50:56

on I phone Apple cards subject to

50:59

credit approval, savings available to Apple owner

51:01

subject eligibility Apple Cart and savings by

51:03

Goldman Sachs Bank Usa Salt Lake City

51:06

branch member Ft I see terms. Apply.

51:10

Our It Knows moment in our podcast

51:12

and we endorse would have this week.

51:14

I'm gonna endorse a new series on Criterion called

51:16

Gothic New Are is I believe it when up

51:18

in the past month and so it should be

51:21

up for another few weeks. I mean, like all

51:23

Criterion series, this is incredibly well curated and was

51:25

curious about it. To me this is a bunch

51:27

of normally from the forties and fifties from the

51:30

Uk and from the U S. I've only seen

51:32

one of them of he not to sort of

51:34

You know Vontae myself as having seen everything because

51:36

I haven't in the lease, but usually of Criterion

51:39

comes up for some sort of old movie collection.

51:41

I can sort of look through it and say

51:43

of this it's unusual based. On me having seen

51:45

this other what will. There's only one movie of

51:47

that maybe like Nine and his collection that I've

51:49

seen which is for it's lungs Ministry of Fear.

51:51

Great movie. The all the movies if you seen

51:53

that movie have that kind of seal you know

51:55

there there and. Well, Gothic nor is

51:57

a good word for it. They're sort of not cry.

52:00

Movies maybe said in some sort of

52:02

lurid melodrama typesetting. lots of fog machines

52:04

which nor movies often used to hide

52:06

the second. The sets for so cheap

52:08

as and Earth and that kind of

52:10

general mood. Also a new are movie

52:13

with Lucille Ball com board assist. Very

52:15

interesting casting and Kiss the Blood off

52:17

My Hands is the title of one

52:19

of these. Movies. Starring

52:22

at. Burt Lancaster and Joan Fontaine that looks very

52:24

juicy. Anyway, I found myself scrolling through it thinking

52:26

i want to see every single one of these

52:28

movies and I know it always happens to me

52:31

that I find out about some great Criterion series

52:33

with the day before it's gonna leave and have

52:35

time to only watch one movie. So get on

52:37

their med, put your movies in your in your

52:39

watch and grabbed some Gothic. New are from

52:41

criteria then or something moving julia. what

52:43

term would you have. You.

52:46

Know we are like to

52:48

complain about the algorithm that

52:50

listening to us and recommends

52:52

bicycle helmets when. You were

52:54

talk about bicycle helmets and

52:56

etc. But some some the algorithm

52:58

does he right and that happened. To

53:01

me on Instagram a couple months

53:03

ago when for some reason. Instagram

53:05

suggested that I would like

53:08

songs by the singer nz.

53:11

And. I went down the

53:13

rabbit hole have sung by a singer

53:15

named in the Who make sort of.

53:18

They. Would not be strike inappropriate. They're

53:20

like. Clever lyric club

53:22

tracks basically, and. As

53:25

that might suggest, my favorite of these

53:27

songs is a song called in. Which

53:31

is a rise club

53:33

tax. About being the annoying

53:36

girl who harass with he said

53:38

to try to get him to

53:40

play the song that they want

53:42

to hear. yes

53:50

and somehow puts you in

53:52

full protagonist extensive see with

53:55

those drunk girls i guess

54:00

So scoot that shit! I don't

54:02

wanna hear it. And it's got kind of like

54:04

spoken lyrics and I... In the manner of the

54:06

algorithm, I've just been super enjoying the song for

54:08

a couple months. Did not bother to look anything

54:10

up about Inji. Having done a,

54:12

you know, 15 second dollop of research

54:15

prior to this endorsement, I can tell

54:17

you that she's Turkish born and based in

54:19

Philadelphia. So anyway,

54:22

this song is hilarious. If that

54:24

sounds like something you will enjoy, you will

54:26

enjoy it. If it sounds like a nightmare,

54:28

don't click. All I can

54:30

think about is how it's spelled. It's

54:35

U-N-T-Z, space, U-N-T-Z, but I

54:37

believe in all caps. Oh,

54:43

that's awesome. Okay, well, the next

54:45

portion of the endorsement segment

54:47

is... Bitter, so it's

54:50

putting the bitter in bittersweet. We're

54:52

being joined by our producer, Cameron

54:54

Drews, who has

54:57

just immediately slotted into the Pantheon,

54:59

the Producer Hall of Fame, for

55:02

the Gabfest. It was a great run,

55:04

Cameron, but you're moving

55:06

on to, let's just say,

55:08

other pastures, but you're joining us

55:10

for an endorsement. Yeah, yeah, thanks

55:12

for inviting me on. Yeah, it

55:14

should have happened sooner. Any final

55:16

valedictory words you wanna say? Well,

55:18

I wanted to pick an endorsement

55:20

that allows me to fold in

55:22

some of those words. I think

55:25

I've told you this separately, but

55:27

the thing that has really stuck

55:29

with me working on this show

55:31

that has changed my life

55:33

for the foreseeable future is I've developed

55:35

a taste for watching lots

55:38

of movies, like lots and lots

55:40

of movies, especially in movie theaters.

55:43

I see one or two

55:45

movies a week in the theater,

55:47

and so the thing that has

55:49

allowed me to do that and

55:51

the thing I want to endorse

55:53

is movie theater subscription services, so

55:55

just like any situation where you

55:57

can pay a monthly fee. and

56:00

you can see, you know,

56:02

the one that I have is through the

56:04

Alamo Draft House, I pay $30

56:06

or so a month and I can

56:09

see one movie a day.

56:11

So, you know, if I see four

56:14

movies a month or something, then I'm paying

56:16

way less per movie than I would otherwise.

56:18

But I think there are other theater chains

56:20

that have things like that. I think AMC

56:22

has stuff like that. They have

56:24

stubs. I'm always hearing about it and I've never heard of it. Cameron,

56:27

I can't believe this is like

56:30

the ultimate slate jam. You're coming

56:32

in after marvelously,

56:35

dexterously, talentedly producing

56:38

us for all these years.

56:40

We were so fortunate to get to work with you

56:43

and excited for you to explore your greener

56:45

pastures, although we will miss you. But you're

56:48

like coming in here with the ultimate slate

56:50

pitch on your final go and telling

56:53

people that they should subscribe to MoviePass. Yeah,

56:55

well, yeah, I do. MoviePass

56:59

actually a great business idea. I love

57:01

it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I will

57:03

forever remember the year of MoviePass, which was

57:06

probably or years maybe 2017, 2018. I think

57:08

that is when I first started seeing a

57:10

lot of movies in

57:15

the theater. I started going to movies alone

57:17

a lot more often. That is that is

57:19

when I got my first little

57:21

taste of what it's like to just

57:24

decide on a whim to see a movie

57:26

like three times a week. But yeah, I

57:28

don't know what the state of MoviePass, the

57:30

actual company is right now. Like maybe stay

57:32

away from them. I don't know. But if

57:35

you can sort of replicate that experience somehow,

57:37

it's pretty good. I probably should do it

57:39

based on the frequency of my movie going.

57:41

But the problem is that the logistics

57:43

of Los Angeles are such that pledging my

57:46

allegiance to any one house

57:48

wouldn't work for me. It's like the

57:50

timing and the location and the traffic.

57:52

It's like I got to spread my

57:55

wealth among the regals and the AMC's

57:57

and the AMC would be the one I

57:59

guess. now that our flight is dead. Every

58:02

so often you throw a Lemley in

58:04

there, it's stuff out here. I

58:07

understand not wanting to stick

58:09

to just one theater. I am lucky in

58:11

New York with the Alamo Draft House because

58:14

they also play older movies

58:16

and stuff, so there's really a wide

58:18

variety to choose from. If I lived

58:20

near the Alamo Draft House here, I

58:22

would certainly have to think about it.

58:25

Can you tell our listeners a little bit about

58:28

your next assignment? It's exciting. Yeah,

58:30

so I'm still working on

58:33

the working podcast, so that part

58:35

of my job has stayed the

58:37

same, but in

58:39

addition, I'll be joining the

58:41

Death, Sex, and Money team for listeners

58:43

who don't know. Death, Sex, and

58:45

Money was a WNYC

58:47

podcast that Slate

58:50

recently acquired, and the tagline of

58:52

the podcast is

58:55

things we think about a lot but

58:57

need to talk about more or something like that.

58:59

I think I got that right. It's

59:02

been really fun so far. New episodes will

59:05

start rolling out in April, so I'm just

59:07

getting to know the team. I'm sort of

59:10

chipping away at some episode ideas,

59:12

doing a lot of pre-interviews

59:15

with interview

59:17

subjects and stuff. It's been really fun. I'm

59:19

excited to be a part of that team.

59:21

All right, well we are thrilled

59:23

to have Jared Downing as

59:26

our producer. You're in good hands. This is

59:28

no shade to him at all

59:31

sincerely, but we really loved working with you.

59:33

It was a total pleasure in every possible

59:35

way, and they are so lucky to have

59:37

you at Sex, Death, and

59:39

Money. So mottled them into you, and

59:41

please let's stay in touch. Absolutely.

59:44

All right, thanks for everything. All right, my

59:46

endorsement very quickly is, I think it may

59:48

have even been the algorithm, Julia, that handed

59:50

me a cover of Wish

59:52

You Were Here, the Pink Floyd song. It's

59:54

the only Floyd song I can listen to

59:57

From beginning to end. I Just can't stand their

59:59

whole... Live but these go

1:00:01

to. Great version of it is

1:00:03

by the milk carton. Get his

1:00:05

ah his ctv. There's.

1:00:18

No sense of the scope of therapy success

1:00:20

so far but there are soaked duo recently

1:00:22

from California a hand cannon now says he

1:00:24

didn't he do that National as a country

1:00:26

seen little bits are all time. He spoke

1:00:28

with elements of old timey in at like

1:00:31

one of them case and to for the

1:00:33

been to. Go.

1:00:47

Through the car. but they

1:00:50

did a close harmonies and

1:00:52

the thing is there. A.

1:00:54

Lot of people in this space as

1:00:56

it were young people as they are

1:00:58

included but stay there. Some ratings really

1:01:00

strong. That was the thing that surprised

1:01:02

me as I branched out from that

1:01:04

amazing cover. and so I'm Doors is

1:01:07

going to endorse your gateway to These

1:01:09

Guys which is a a video we're

1:01:11

going to because they're bunch of live

1:01:13

performances of of but it's this one

1:01:15

in particular the milk carton kids these

1:01:17

two young guys loan with a banjo

1:01:19

and like really and as tall as

1:01:21

the clouds and and the other one

1:01:23

just a kind of low key exuberantly.

1:01:25

Funny guy with an acoustic guitar and

1:01:27

the to them are sort of stage

1:01:29

bantering. Wow the guitarist is tuning

1:01:31

returning his guitar. Bands

1:01:35

are gonna put yourself down. And

1:01:39

then you piled on like he did to them because. It's

1:01:46

emotional whiplash. Or

1:01:50

with have some fun. Kids are talking for

1:01:52

so long. and

1:01:55

the banter is so

1:01:57

fucking charming it's yet

1:01:59

it's It's like I

1:02:02

just want time to be

1:02:04

rewound to the Big Bang.

1:02:07

And like some butterfly effect makes

1:02:09

me him. You

1:02:11

know, the tall one. He's just

1:02:13

so tall and skinny

1:02:16

and his hair is amazing. And

1:02:18

it's like I don't, you know,

1:02:20

I don't know. They're just

1:02:22

they do not use vanity

1:02:25

even though they're just so lovely and

1:02:27

funny. And then they play this song

1:02:29

called All of the Time in the World to Kill, which

1:02:32

is just a superb piece of song craft.

1:02:35

The world is

1:02:37

amazing. When

1:02:39

you think it will.

1:02:44

And I'm the same wild fish

1:02:46

that we've got all of the

1:02:48

time in the world. We've

1:02:50

got all of the time in

1:02:53

the world. I would love it if you if

1:02:55

you're going to seek this out, find this

1:02:57

particular version on YouTube. We will

1:03:00

have a link to it so you should be able to find it. But

1:03:03

it's worth it because you get the flavor of

1:03:06

their personalities in a larger sense. And

1:03:08

they banter with the audience and the audience is so

1:03:10

into it. So lovely, really wonderful kind

1:03:12

of low key electric moment. I think

1:03:14

you'll dig it. Anyway, Cameron again, man.

1:03:17

Thanks for everything. Of course. Thank you

1:03:19

all. It's been fun. Yeah. Good

1:03:23

luck and don't be a stranger. Thanks

1:03:26

Dana. Thanks. Thanks a lot, Julia.

1:03:30

You'll find links to some of the things we talked about

1:03:32

today at our show page at slate.com. And

1:03:34

you can email us at CULTURFEST

1:03:36

at slate.com. Our introductory music

1:03:38

is by the composer Nicholas Bertel. Our

1:03:41

producer is Jared Downing. Our production

1:03:43

assistant is Kat Hong. For Dana

1:03:45

Stevens and Julia Turner and Cameron

1:03:48

Drews. Thanks so much

1:03:50

for joining us. We will see you soon. One

1:04:00

get all of energy. Our bigger. To

1:04:02

Believe Arkansas build our Usa. The

1:04:04

Blair a small has your little ones covered

1:04:06

with father's eyes. He's Wednesday Thursday from. Said

1:04:09

and a once over. The only for jumpers

1:04:11

sits in under the little ones. Good job at

1:04:13

their own food and cover level without. The

1:04:15

older kids around. His essay for now? Lovely.

1:04:17

The. Tellers energy and they'll be all right at

1:04:19

home on all of The attraction was so. Had

1:04:22

the best nab ever afterwards. bigger to

1:04:24

love. It's worth of fun. Never. As

1:04:26

see a bigger usa.com/columbus.

1:04:29

Or details.