0:05

You're listening to

0:05

CX Passport, the show about

0:09

creating great customer

0:09

experiences with a dash of

0:11

travel talk. Each episode we’ll

0:11

talk with our guests about great

0:16

CX, travel...and just like the

0:16

best journeys, explore new

0:20

directions we never anticipated.

0:20

I'm your host Rick Denton. I

0:25

believe the best meals are

0:25

served outside and require a

0:27

passport. Let's get going. Today we're going to head up to

0:32

Canada, specifically the

0:35

province of Ontario where

0:35

today's guest Tanya Fowler

0:38

champions the customer's voice

0:38

to deliver industry leading

0:42

experiences to customers in her

0:42

role as head of customer

0:44

experience for FCT. longtime

0:44

listeners will know that I tend

0:49

to focus on Voice of the

0:49

Customer wanting companies to

0:51

stop serving score start listen

0:51

and act. That's why Tanya stood

0:55

out to me as a guest I wanted to

0:55

have on the show Tanya uses voc

0:59

total voice of the customer as

0:59

the foundation for the customer

1:02

experience initiatives. While

1:02

actually the business

1:05

initiatives that have driven and

1:05

will continue to drive a

1:08

differentiating factor for fctm

1:08

success. I came to know Tanya

1:13

she shepherded a winning entry

1:13

for the market global 2022 North

1:16

American customer centricity

1:16

awards coming up against some

1:19

stiff competition. When it came

1:19

to learn from FCT'sentry showed

1:24

a real focus on the customer and

1:24

a disciplined approach to going

1:27

from customers voice to

1:27

customers insight to business

1:30

decision to action to results. I

1:30

want to spend some time today

1:34

learning more about how she and

1:34

her team use the customer's

1:36

voice to bring that business

1:36

success forward. Tannya was one

1:41

of the first eight employees to

1:41

join FCT a company now well over

1:45

1200 employees. She's seen what

1:45

works and what doesn't work when

1:49

it comes to driving customer experience. There's a lot to learn. They're known as an

1:51

eternal optimist within

1:54

infectious laugh, which I do

1:54

hope we'll get to here several

1:56

times on today's episode, Tanya

1:56

takes that optimism to advocate

2:00

for the customer. I can't wait

2:00

to hear more. Tanya. Welcome to

2:03

CX passport.

2:05

Oh, thank you so

2:05

much, Rick. I'm very happy to be

2:07

here and certainly cutting my

2:07

teeth for the very first time on

2:10

a podcast. I'm thrilled to be here.

2:12

Good. That means

2:12

you have no expectation. So no

2:14

matter what happens, you're

2:14

gonna think this is the way it

2:17

should be fantastic. I love it.

2:17

Well, Tanya CX passport

2:22

listeners just may not be as

2:22

familiar with FCT Would you just

2:25

start off? Let's just start off

2:25

by sharing a brief overview of

2:28

FCT and your role there?

2:30

Yeah, absolutely.

2:30

So FCT is a leading b2b provider

2:34

of real estate solutions and

2:34

technology across Canada. We

2:38

grew from a title insurance

2:38

company founded in 1991. To so

2:43

much more valuation, we do

2:43

mortgage processing data

2:47

solutions, default recovery

2:47

solutions, if it's part of real

2:51

estate, and that lifecycle, it's

2:51

really part of what FCT does. My

2:56

role as head of CX is to drive a

2:56

customer centric culture. And

3:00

that's really, the way I want to

3:00

really drive that forward is

3:04

connecting every single role

3:04

within our organization to

3:07

enable either directly impact

3:07

our customers experience, or

3:11

support each other through

3:11

cooperation, and gather, measure

3:15

and really advocate for the

3:15

customers voice to support our

3:18

leaders ability to create

3:18

exceptional experiences for our

3:22

customers.

3:23

Oh my gosh, you

3:23

just have you have the role that

3:26

those of us in the customer

3:26

experience world just absolutely

3:28

want to listen to all that

3:28

you're hoping to drive for your

3:31

customers there. I do want to

3:31

get into later in the show, I

3:35

hope that we can get into

3:35

understanding how you drive that

3:37

across the organization is one

3:37

way to say it in our CX world,

3:40

but how did you drive it across

3:40

the organization? So let's but

3:43

let's start with some of the

3:43

kind of foundations of customer

3:45

experience. So you know, I

3:45

mentioned my aversion to survey

3:48

and score in the intro. And when

3:48

you and I talked before the

3:51

show, you mentioned how often

3:51

people when they hear voice the

3:54

customer, they think survey

3:54

survey survey. But you and I

3:58

both know, it's so much more

3:58

than that. How have you grown in

4:01

your approach to voc? And where

4:01

have you gone beyond the survey?

4:05

Absolutely. And I

4:05

must say when we first expanded

4:08

our voices of customer program,

4:08

I really worked hard to replace

4:12

the word survey, almost using

4:12

like a swear jar deposit.

4:17

Customer Insights, right

4:17

insights, they can be gathered

4:20

in so many different ways. Like

4:20

as your customers they tell you

4:24

every single time what they want

4:24

what they need and in every

4:27

interaction and that could be by

4:27

phone by email, online chat

4:32

interactions with your staff and

4:32

the field like the key there is

4:36

really just harness it at its

4:36

source. So our approach really

4:40

was tapping into from the

4:40

starting points on the CX best

4:43

practices. Some of them are just

4:43

gather feedback in the channel a

4:48

customer is already in. What is

4:48

could be quite frustrating for a

4:52

customer is you know, they're

4:52

finishing what they're doing off

4:55

to another thing and then you're

4:55

bringing them back to kind of

4:57

recall how that experience was

4:57

But keeping them in that

5:01

preferred channel, it really

5:01

reduces not only their effort,

5:05

which is really important, but

5:05

it improves your data quality

5:08

too. We also want to gather it

5:08

when it's it's top of mind for

5:12

customers. So I find even in my

5:12

day to day life, you know, I go

5:16

on a website and bam, I already

5:16

am getting a survey like right

5:19

in my face, like you haven't

5:19

even done anything yet, like

5:21

your moment variance so that I

5:21

can give you my feedback. And so

5:27

for there, it's really important

5:27

to make sure they've completed

5:31

that experience, right, you've

5:31

you've developed this intended

5:34

experience, they've experienced

5:34

it, now's the time to ask for it

5:36

not before. The other area is,

5:36

is making it as I touched on a

5:41

little bit is effortless. How do

5:41

we make it effortless for

5:45

customers to relay their wants

5:45

their needs, and really serve as

5:49

I find just rely on the

5:49

customer's valuable time, but

5:52

you've got so much data even at

5:52

your fingertips? Why would we

5:56

subject them to giving greater

5:56

effort when we can dive into a

6:00

plethora of data that we've got

6:00

that we can mine and it really

6:04

does go much deeper than surveys

6:04

ever could for us. And you know,

6:08

what you get is the peak and pit

6:08

moments with surveys, you're

6:10

really missing those actual

6:10

insights. So what we started

6:14

doing too, is just asking

6:14

ourselves, like, are we just

6:16

looking to validate what we

6:16

think we already know, we have

6:19

offices, surveys, or are quite

6:19

good at that? Or do we really

6:24

want to go deeper right? Tap

6:24

into the sentiment? What is the

6:26

contextual meaning? What are the

6:26

loyalty drivers that our

6:29

customers are being are telling

6:29

us? And really, what we found is

6:34

that goldmine of data is just

6:34

really tapping into what we had.

6:38

And we uncovered so much data

6:38

that we would never have

6:42

received, if it was just through

6:42

surveys. I find two surveys are

6:47

missing that sentiment, the tone

6:47

that was really missing. So you

6:52

can miss read a lot of you know,

6:52

written verbatim that a customer

6:57

has versus hearing it firsthand.

6:57

But there's no

7:00

misinterpretation. When you hear

7:00

them, you can hear the

7:03

frustration, you could hear the

7:03

emotion, you can hear you know

7:06

the empathy that's coming out

7:06

from there, there's no mincing

7:09

of words. It's there's no

7:09

guessing or context behind it.

7:12

And for there, it's like kind of

7:12

leapfrogging so you don't have

7:16

to speculate or spend a lot of

7:16

time or dialogue even with your

7:19

stakeholders. It is what it is,

7:19

here's what we're hearing it

7:22

you're left with. There's no

7:22

reason why we can't just jump in

7:26

an action and jump into inaction

7:26

to resolve some of those issues.

7:29

This

7:29

is your captain speaking. I want

7:31

to thank you for listening to CX

7:31

Passport today. We’ve now

7:34

reached our cruising altitude so

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I’ll turn that seatbelt sign

7:38

off. <ding> While you’re getting

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comfortable, hit that Follow or

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show as well. Now, sit back and

7:50

enjoy the rest of the episode.

7:55

Oh my gosh, okay,

7:55

so you said encapsulated in like

7:59

five to six minutes there have

7:59

like almost the the the Bible of

8:06

customer experience and voice of

8:06

the customer. It's amazing how

8:09

much is packed into that little

8:09

nugget there. The one of the

8:13

things that I'm curious about

8:13

when you talked about there's

8:16

you talked about all the

8:16

different data that exists in

8:18

all that's out there. And I

8:18

think a lot of companies are in

8:21

that same situation of we have a

8:21

ton of customer information. So

8:25

how did you go from call the

8:25

data or information into

8:29

insights, being able to bridge

8:29

across all of those different

8:32

sources?

8:33

It started really

8:33

with baby steps. So number one

8:37

data accuracy is is very

8:37

important. So we would go into

8:40

certain areas and look for the

8:40

accuracy behind it. But I find

8:44

as well, you know, just matching

8:44

back and forth, right? How long

8:48

is the customer been with us?

8:48

What is it we're hearing from

8:51

them, just being able to put

8:51

more context in behind it, the

8:54

opportunity for us is just not

8:54

action anecdotal, like I find

9:00

our staff are amazing at

9:00

listening, hearing, and taking

9:04

action, but not necessarily the

9:04

most impactful areas for

9:08

customers because it was too

9:08

anecdotal. So that's what we

9:11

were doing is just really

9:11

looking across all of those

9:14

different forms that we had

9:14

access to, and then making sure

9:17

it was creating a good

9:17

statistical analysis to really

9:22

help us understand, are we going

9:22

to hit the mark here at the

9:26

highest impact with the lowest

9:26

effort? Or is it the reverse,

9:29

right? We're hitting on things

9:29

that are the lowest impact to

9:31

customers that have a high

9:31

effort, which is just going to

9:34

really clog your wheel of

9:34

productivity as well.

9:37

There's translating

9:37

this into action. There's so

9:40

much value in what you're saying

9:40

there. And the idea of, of

9:43

understanding what is the most

9:43

productive use of that customer

9:46

insight. I think another thing

9:46

you said and there's not just if

9:48

you didn't say the words but not

9:48

just reacting to the loudest

9:52

customer complaint and what

9:52

might be the most vocal or even

9:54

the most emotionally intense may

9:54

not be what is most impactful to

9:58

the overall customer experience

9:58

beat Maybe you want to restore

10:01

the relationship of that one

10:01

customer. But that doesn't mean

10:04

that there's some massive

10:04

corporate challenge that needs

10:06

to be to be handled. And so

10:06

actually, that drives me to the

10:11

next thought. And that is, we

10:11

talk about the global kind of

10:14

this understanding of customer

10:14

starts with voice, voice of the

10:19

customer. And so how do you

10:19

bring because you're talking

10:21

about bringing this into

10:21

business decisions, actual

10:24

business decision? So how are

10:24

you bringing the actual customer

10:27

voice in the fct? And then how

10:27

are you having that influence

10:31

those decisions that you're describing?

10:33

Yeah, so one of

10:33

our, one of our main CX

10:36

principles that we have is, and

10:36

it sounds very cliche, but it's

10:40

putting ourselves in the shoes

10:40

of our customers. So what do we

10:44

mean by that, and what we mean

10:44

by that is, we've really taught

10:48

within our CX training program,

10:48

we've taught the importance of

10:52

perspective, right? The

10:52

customers perspective, it's

10:55

their reality, you know, you can

10:55

argue with it all day long. And

10:57

sometimes, it can lead into

10:57

being a little bit defensive in

11:02

some situations. But if you just

11:02

take a step back, and listen and

11:05

understand their perspective,

11:05

that's when you really start

11:09

seeing a turn in how we work

11:09

together and collaborate to

11:14

create a better experience for

11:14

our customers. So sometimes,

11:18

too, it could even mean, you

11:18

know, whether that's physically

11:21

through focus groups, or

11:21

advisory councils, or even

11:24

theoretically, where, you know,

11:24

we have an empty chair at a team

11:28

meeting. And that empty chair,

11:28

that is the customer, right, and

11:31

I think other organizations,

11:31

we've certainly hadn't thought

11:34

of it on our own. It is

11:34

something that other

11:36

organizations do use, and it's

11:36

quite impactful. So we use a

11:40

user persona for the particular

11:40

project that we're working on,

11:43

or the insight that we're

11:43

working on. And we bring those

11:46

insights in, whether it be the

11:46

full verbatim call recording.

11:49

And within there, it's raw,

11:49

right? There's just no, again,

11:53

mincing of words or

11:53

understanding the customer's

11:56

perspective. It's there. It's

11:56

there. And quite often, when you

12:01

listen to the call recording, we

12:01

all sit there and look at each

12:03

other and think, wow, we did

12:03

that. We how could we great way

12:09

to unite us as well, with that

12:09

common goal? Have we heard this?

12:13

We're not good with it. We

12:13

wouldn't accept that as

12:16

ourselves as the customer being

12:16

in their shoes. So how do we

12:19

rally together to make sure that

12:19

we're improving that experience

12:23

for our customers?

12:25

Imagine those

12:25

moments of oh my gosh, we did

12:28

that. It reminds me, and I'll

12:28

try to tell the story

12:31

succinctly. But when I was

12:31

before I was a consultant, I was

12:34

working for a brand. And that

12:34

brand we were starting to get

12:38

into well, let's try to improve

12:38

our customer experience. Let's

12:41

try to look into that sort of

12:41

thing. So we asked someone, how

12:43

do we listen to calls, we didn't

12:43

even know how to do it. We were

12:46

in the operation side. And so

12:46

someone came in and showed us

12:48

how to plan it. And we called

12:48

her the CX muse for us. She hit

12:52

play on three calls. And it

12:52

progressively each a we just

12:57

started looking at each other

12:57

around the room eyes got wider

12:59

heads went into hands. Oh my

12:59

gosh, how could that call it

13:02

been so bad? And then the second

13:02

one and the third one? And we

13:04

looked at the our muse and said,

13:04

Did you pick those on personally

13:09

No, pick them at random. Oh my

13:09

gosh, that's when we knew we had

13:13

a problem that we didn't even know about because we hadn't brought that literal customer's

13:15

voice into the session. And

13:19

hearing what you're describing

13:19

there, it is amazing how that

13:22

does influence a business

13:22

decision. When you hear the

13:25

customer's raw emotion behind

13:25

what they're experiencing,

13:29

I would hope we

13:29

wouldn't have the, you know, bad

13:34

luck of that streak of bad luck

13:34

or like, Oh, I'm gonna randomly

13:36

pick three and they're all bad.

13:36

I was it was shocking. Lucky for

13:41

us, we have a tool that actually

13:41

brings those to light. Right. So

13:45

we've created the scorecard and

13:45

said, If anything goes, if

13:48

there's an outlier of our

13:48

scorecard here, how do we go

13:51

back and focus on those and that

13:51

way, too, we have kind of the

13:54

power in the data of the numbers

13:54

in the statistical relevance as

13:57

well to say, Hmm, here's the

13:57

areas that are highest priority,

14:01

causing the highest points of

14:01

agitation for our customers. And

14:04

it makes the storytelling a

14:04

little bit easier in that

14:07

aspect. Yeah. Because you've

14:07

already got, you know, good buy

14:10

in already from your stakeholders.

14:12

Now you can tell

14:12

100% I agree, like, I feel like

14:16

there's this rash of agreement

14:16

between you and me here on this

14:18

episode. And I'm a huge fan of

14:18

call listening. It sounds like

14:22

you really appreciate the value

14:22

of call listening. I love

14:25

gathering that group of leaders

14:25

together. This was not we were

14:27

just trying to learn how to use

14:27

the bloomin tool. But later we

14:29

implemented a call listening

14:29

sessions and playing the calls

14:32

and watching leaders reactions

14:32

and then seeing the business

14:35

change because that emotion can

14:35

drive the change. The logic is

14:38

important but the emotion really

14:38

kind of gets things going. But

14:41

you had some wisdom to share

14:41

with me earlier when we were

14:44

talking about this before we got

14:44

in the episode. What are some of

14:46

the dangers of call listening

14:46

sessions?

14:49

Oh yes, it's your

14:49

right is so impactful. But there

14:53

are times you know, you listen

14:53

to the calls, it really hits

14:55

home and it can leave the group

14:55

really energized in the right

14:58

way to take action. Our

14:58

cautionary tale is really just

15:03

staying focused on what the

15:03

customers are, they're saying,

15:06

resist that urge to get surgical

15:06

on how the agent handled the

15:10

call. Because it can quickly

15:10

turn into very discouraging on

15:14

what the agent should have done

15:14

or could have done differently.

15:17

And I, I really believe at my

15:17

core that every employee always

15:20

wants to do their best, you

15:20

know, they want to feel valued,

15:23

they want to be able to resolve

15:23

the customer pain points. And

15:26

most often they don't have, you

15:26

know, the right tools or

15:29

resources to deliver the

15:29

intended experience. So although

15:33

it's a source of learning, there

15:33

have been times when I have

15:36

deliberately removed the agent

15:36

side of the call recording, just

15:42

so we can truly focus on the

15:42

customer what they're saying.

15:46

Because at times it can happen

15:46

where you know, you're judging

15:49

the agent they should have done

15:49

could have done. At the end of

15:51

the day, most often they're

15:51

doing the best they can with the

15:54

tools and information that they

15:54

have on hand. And there's

15:58

there's always learnings

15:58

overall, but that's what we've

16:00

done.

16:01

I think that's a

16:01

brilliant use of extracting the

16:04

agent's voice there that would

16:04

make for a very interesting

16:06

call. Now, I like all of us, we

16:06

try to fill in the gaps with our

16:10

brains. And we'd then be sitting

16:10

there imagining what's

16:12

happening, right? If the

16:12

customer is getting increasingly

16:14

agitated, the customer says, How

16:14

could you possibly say that to

16:16

me? And then you're now you're wondering what the agent said. But I like how you've removed

16:18

the agent from that in the sense

16:22

of, no, let's listen to what the

16:22

customer is experiencing. And

16:26

I've talked a lot with guests

16:26

about how it's actually agent

16:29

and and customer who co create

16:29

that experience together. But in

16:35

a call listening session, I

16:35

could see that value of of doing

16:38

that, and how, how have you been

16:38

able to sort of balance both

16:41

that because there are

16:41

opportunities to coach and

16:43

develop? And I mean that in the

16:43

positive way? Great, we heard

16:46

something wonderful, let's

16:46

develop that in you. And let's

16:48

coach new opportunities for you

16:48

to do something different. How

16:50

do you balance that? When it's

16:50

you don't want to be agent

16:53

blaming? Because Heck, it can be

16:53

the tools, it can be the system?

16:57

How do you balance those worlds

16:57

when you're doing a call

16:59

listening session?

17:00

Yeah, I do find

17:00

this case by case basis. So it

17:02

really Detroit it really is

17:02

situational, where it depends on

17:06

on the issue and the topic in

17:06

which we're referring to, but

17:10

sometimes you can leave in part

17:10

of what the agent is saying. So

17:14

you know, one example is, you

17:14

know, there was a technology

17:17

issue and the agents were all

17:17

provided with the script in

17:20

which they could respond to and

17:20

that wasn't resolving it. And

17:24

there was just some confusion

17:24

there on why it wasn't resolved.

17:27

So immediately, we're listening

17:27

to the customer call and, and in

17:31

there, I did leave in the agent

17:31

gave the prescriptive script,

17:36

and it was able to showcase to

17:36

us that they needed to go beyond

17:39

the script a little bit. And not

17:39

necessarily so the agent did all

17:43

the right things, but the

17:43

outcome wasn't exactly as we had

17:46

depicted and we still had an

17:46

issue, you know, the resolution

17:49

that the agent was provided to

17:49

give to the customer was not

17:53

solving the customer's pain point.

18:00

Tanya, let's do a

18:00

little a change of pace here.

18:02

We're gonna we're gonna step

18:02

away from call listening. As

18:05

much as I really, really, really

18:05

do enjoy it. I appreciate your

18:08

questions, but I really enjoy

18:08

call listening. But I want you

18:11

to join me here in the first class lounge. We're going to take a little break here, we're

18:12

going to move quickly but hopefully have a little bit of

18:14

fun as well. What is a dream

18:16

travel location from your past?

18:20

Greece and that

18:20

was as of a week ago.

18:23

Okay, let's talk

18:23

about that. We're gonna we're

18:25

gonna stop down for a little

18:25

bit. We're not gonna spend as

18:27

much as quickly as we thought,

18:27

tell me about Greece if it's not

18:30

fresh on your mind.

18:31

Well, what I

18:31

should first start with is I

18:33

haven't traveled my plane in

18:33

four years, I was very hesitant,

18:36

packed a lot of patience, and

18:36

was blown away by how seamless

18:40

it was. So big shout outs to the

18:40

airlines because I know they get

18:43

attacked quite frequently. But

18:43

yes, Greece phenomenal. Athens

18:48

and Santorini was where we spent

18:48

our time short it was just a

18:51

week but we felt like we saw so

18:51

much I in that short amount of

18:55

time and food. Wow. Friendly

18:55

people beautiful jaw dropping

19:01

scenery, sunsets, glorious so

19:01

many wonderful deposits in our

19:06

memory bank.

19:08

I am I'm going to

19:08

struggle to keep going from here

19:11

because my wife and I want to do

19:11

an anniversary trip next year to

19:13

Greece. So maybe after we

19:13

finished recording I'm gonna ask

19:15

you where you stay to get some

19:15

of those notes as to

19:19

your anniversary

19:19

is not in the summer months we

19:21

were told you we came at a

19:21

perfect time because it's not

19:24

overrun.

19:25

We'll be

19:25

celebrating a little off cycle

19:27

but it's still going to be an

19:27

honor of an anniversary but

19:30

you're right no it would be a

19:30

bad time to go when our

19:32

anniversary is what is a dream

19:32

travel location you've not been

19:37

to yet Italy asked me why

19:43

I if if if the

19:43

doctor said you can only survive

19:47

on Italian food. I would be in

19:47

good my glory for the rest of my

19:52

days. Like I don't know I just I

19:52

love you know the warmness

19:56

behind it. This like everything

19:56

I just have going Italy

20:00

well, you will need to get there very soon. It is one of my favorite places. We

20:02

haven't been to Greece. So you

20:04

went on Greece but Italy is

20:04

phenomenal. And you're right.

20:07

The food is absolutely

20:07

spectacular. The sky. The Tuscan

20:10

skies are gorgeous. And the

20:10

wines are spectacular, of

20:13

course. So let's keep talking

20:13

about food here. What is a

20:17

favorite thing of yours to eat?

20:20

moussaka, which is

20:20

a Greek almost like a lasagna

20:25

made with eggplant. Phenomenal.

20:25

Love it.

20:30

I love how quickly you know sometimes guests have to kind of think about nope,

20:32

moussaka. Bam, I know exactly

20:35

what I want.

20:37

I'm very addicted

20:37

to it. I think that's why I

20:41

probably am gonna get sick of it

20:41

shortly because it seems to be

20:44

my go to lately, but it's

20:44

awesome.

20:47

It's, I laugh

20:47

because I've had other guests

20:50

that are similar to me and that

20:50

the answers really will food.

20:53

That's my favorite type of food.

20:53

Just food. But yes. Like it all.

21:00

But there's not everything that

21:00

I like. And so what is the thing

21:03

your parents forced you to eat

21:03

but you hated as a kid?

21:05

Oh, man, I'm

21:05

lumpy, hot cereal that my

21:12

brother was in charge of making

21:12

for breakfast. And if you didn't

21:16

finish it, it would go back in

21:16

the fridge and you got to eat it

21:19

the next day

21:21

Oh, gosh,

21:21

thatsounds horrible.

21:23

Oh, yes. very

21:23

traumatic. I've never been since

21:28

Red River cereal and I was I

21:28

took a photo in the grocery

21:33

store recently and sent it to my

21:33

brother Mike, can you believe

21:36

they still make this?

21:39

Lumpy, anything

21:39

that has the word lumpy in the

21:42

description? Probably it's just

21:42

not. You and I are clearly not

21:45

marketers if we're talking about

21:45

food here. Let's close out the

21:49

first class lounge with a travel

21:49

what is one travel item not

21:52

including your phone that you

21:52

will not leave home without?

21:56

I would say it's

21:56

not really an object. It's more

22:00

of like a learner's heart.

22:00

Because typically when I travel

22:04

like I just want to absorb like

22:04

the culture and what they're

22:08

doing. And I think this was why

22:08

to my mom, my parents like Oh,

22:11

he got to go on a cruise go to

22:11

Greece. I'm like, but they take

22:13

you to just only the touristy

22:13

areas like I want to immerse

22:16

myself in the people the

22:16

culture, the food, the you know,

22:19

experience how they live, like

22:19

that's what I'd want to do. So

22:23

I'd have to say a learner's

22:23

heart is always what I pack.

22:32

Oh, Tanya, that's,

22:32

that's amazing. That's like

22:34

truly truly special. It kind of

22:34

it relates to the next question

22:39

that I wanted to ask you. And we

22:39

talk a lot about customer

22:43

obsession. Yeah, customer

22:43

experience. We love that phrase

22:46

customer obsession, customer

22:46

centricity customer first. And

22:50

hey, it probably comes from

22:50

somebody that has that kind of

22:53

learners heart like you're

22:53

describing. But is it possible

22:57

to over index on customer

22:57

obsession?

23:01

I don't know, I

23:01

don't believe you could really

23:04

over index necessarily in

23:04

customer obsession, because I

23:07

think at the end of the day,

23:07

they're the reason that you're

23:09

in business right to earn their

23:09

trust in their business. I do

23:14

feel though, you could fall into

23:14

a trap of applying metrics that

23:19

don't matter to your customers

23:19

and maybe more to your

23:22

organization. There can be maybe

23:22

too much focus on operational

23:26

efficiency or operational costs.

23:26

And and that could come at a

23:31

cost to your customers. But I

23:31

don't feel well you could over

23:34

index, I'd say as long as the

23:34

discussion is centered around

23:37

what's best for the business and

23:37

best for the customer. I think

23:41

you could have a long runway

23:41

there.

23:44

I do wonder so let's talk about that tension between business and customer.

23:45

When you're sitting in a business meeting, let's just try

23:47

to visualize for a second we're

23:49

sitting in a business meeting.

23:49

And there's something that would

23:52

benefit the customer but it

23:52

would be a sacrifice to the

23:55

business or it's something that

23:55

the business really wants to do

23:59

but maybe a little bit negative

23:59

the customers friends Howard,

24:02

how do you make those decisions?

24:04

Yeah, I would. I

24:04

typically rely on data like I'm

24:09

just so data driven. And I feel

24:09

like let's not go with guts

24:12

instinct here. Let's either dive

24:12

into customer research a little

24:16

bit more, but also really better

24:16

articulate, you know, what would

24:20

be the lifetime value behind

24:20

these types of experiences that

24:24

we want we're intend to deliver

24:24

to our customers. So there is

24:28

definitely a fine balance. We're

24:28

no different than any

24:31

organization. You don't have

24:31

this bottomless pit of money

24:34

like yeah, we're all organs.

24:34

Yeah, we're gonna do this, this,

24:37

this, we're gonna do everything.

24:37

Like, you know, logistically and

24:41

for a business to really make

24:41

sure they're managing their

24:44

bottom line appropriately. You

24:44

just want to be able to

24:46

prioritize, so I, I feel like

24:46

prioritization is a big one, as

24:51

well as accountability, right?

24:51

If we are making commitments to

24:55

our customers, we want to make

24:55

sure we're holding ourselves

24:57

accountable even for that To

24:57

make it happen for our

25:01

customers,

25:02

I like that I like

25:02

the idea of introducing

25:04

prioritization and accountability into that one. Let's talk about a different

25:06

element of voice the customer,

25:09

he, I use that total voc brand

25:09

as to talk with clients. And

25:13

I've mentioned that stop serving

25:13

score, start listening act. But

25:17

it goes beyond that. And I know

25:17

it's a piece that's particularly

25:20

important to you. It's listen

25:20

and act, and engage employee

25:24

experience. And so using voice

25:24

of the customer to celebrate

25:28

inspire, and coach, that's key

25:28

for FCT, as you've described it

25:31

to me, how do you go about doing

25:31

that using voice the customer to

25:34

really build employee experience?

25:37

Yeah, that's great. Like, I would say, there's three, there's three key

25:38

ways that we do it. So one is,

25:42

you know, once employees really

25:42

understand how their role either

25:47

support enables or directly

25:47

impacts the customer experience,

25:50

they're definitely more engaged.

25:50

It's no longer it's an activity

25:54

and a checkbox, but I have

25:54

meaning my role has meaning. And

25:58

know the organization's

25:58

prioritizing customer

26:00

experience. And this is how I

26:00

fit in, that already will start

26:04

creating kind of that motivation

26:04

behind doing what's right for

26:08

our customers. But we also have

26:08

a great background really built

26:14

into our culture around

26:14

listening to understand, not

26:18

listen to respond, but really

26:18

listen to understand. And

26:22

there's a difference between the

26:22

two. You know, as we talked

26:26

about, you know, that can be a

26:26

highly emotional state. And we

26:29

got to resist the urge there to

26:29

justify what is the root cause?

26:34

Why did this happen and

26:34

justifying why it happened, and

26:37

really kind of take a step back

26:37

and relook at it through the

26:41

lens of the customer who don't

26:41

have our, you know, processes

26:45

mapped out or the behind the

26:45

scenes, the behind the scenes

26:48

is, it's for them, right? They

26:48

don't care about that. It's like

26:52

what's on stage, what can I see,

26:52

that's where we want to really

26:55

make it happen. So as I

26:55

mentioned, their their

26:57

perspective, is their reality.

26:57

And once we see it from their

27:02

lens, and we can apply, you

27:02

know, the empathy, I really feel

27:06

like that's where the

27:06

opportunities to take action

27:09

really happen. What we've also

27:09

done is created like a

27:12

decisioning tree for customers,

27:12

or sorry for our employees as

27:15

well. So here's the issue, how

27:15

do I go about taking action on

27:20

it? So I need to understand who

27:20

the stakeholders are, I need to

27:23

understand some of the risk

27:23

elements behind the decision or

27:27

the idea that I have that I want

27:27

to implement. So it really comes

27:30

down to key collaboration. And

27:30

making sure I think really

27:35

important, is highlighting your

27:35

success. Yeah, beat on, you

27:40

know, opportunity, we need to do

27:40

this better. Like, you know,

27:44

that's not gonna go anywhere, we

27:44

really want to make sure that

27:46

we're highlighting the success

27:46

because in success is a plethora

27:50

of learning and know what we're

27:50

doing right. And we can continue

27:54

to emulate what we're doing

27:54

right? We're only going to get

27:56

better and better at it.

27:58

How do you go about

27:58

celebrating that society? What

28:00

are some of the tactical things

28:00

or even some stories is if you

28:03

got some delightful stories to

28:03

share, but just share with the

28:06

listeners some ideas around

28:06

celebrating? So I think to your

28:09

point, we focus on root cause we

28:09

focus on blame, we try to fix, I

28:12

think the celebrations under

28:12

indexed and so how have you

28:15

successfully brought in

28:15

celebration around voice of the

28:18

customer and just customer in

28:18

general? Yeah, we

28:20

have a phenomenal

28:20

rewards and recognition program.

28:24

But one of the key ways that

28:24

I've seen really move the dial

28:28

is having our CEO or president

28:28

read out these customer

28:33

testimonials, customer insights,

28:33

and reading them out at these

28:37

town hall. We call them town

28:37

halls, but internal meetings

28:41

that we have that has been very

28:41

impactful. We also do a lot of

28:45

kind of storyboarding within the

28:45

organization. So we have

28:48

posters, we've got a variety of

28:48

different communication methods

28:52

that we utilize as well. And

28:52

then our rewards program is a

28:56

Points Based System. So making

28:56

sure we're recognizing those key

29:00

behaviors that the employees

29:00

delivering on and calling those

29:04

out how do those key CX

29:04

principles tie into what the

29:07

employee took action on? And

29:07

being able to continue to do

29:11

that? Because of course, other

29:11

employees like well, you know,

29:13

of course Rick did the Eric

29:13

always thinks to those things.

29:16

He's great all around it. But if

29:16

we focusing on what are the key

29:19

attributes that Rick did to make

29:19

that happen, that is power? It's

29:26

absolutely

29:27

yeah, there's some

29:27

brilliance to that almost the

29:30

Okay, so maybe you don't know

29:30

how to make the entire entree.

29:32

But here are the ingredients,

29:32

and you can start to put those

29:35

ingredients together. I

29:35

absolutely liked that. And the

29:38

idea of townhalls is something

29:38

that I have been both involved

29:42

in creating but also as an

29:42

employee being impacted as

29:46

working inside of a home equity

29:46

business. You wouldn't expect to

29:48

have customer stories that make

29:48

you cry. There are customer

29:51

stories that made me cry like a

29:51

baby and at some of the town

29:54

halls because they're so

29:54

beautiful people were able to do

29:57

and it motivated me even though

29:57

I wasn't was in the customer

30:00

experience side. But for those that didn't, you're just motivated around great home

30:02

equity, it can help and change

30:05

people's lives. And again, we're

30:05

talking a financial product. And

30:08

people are just balling. So

30:08

there's, there's such a value in

30:11

doing that

30:11

we had one today,

30:11

we had one today was so

30:15

phenomenal. So our CEO read it

30:15

out. But similar where you know,

30:19

if you're doing a transaction

30:19

day after day after day, you're

30:22

just pumping out transactions

30:22

processing them, it's hard

30:25

sometimes to imagine there's a

30:25

human on the other side of it.

30:29

And the work that you're doing

30:29

has that human connection, and

30:33

you may not even recognize it.

30:33

But we did have a situation

30:36

where our customer read out

30:36

exactly what their client was

30:42

challenged with, and why they

30:42

came to us for assistance. So we

30:45

were just doing what we were

30:45

asked to do, when she then

30:48

brought in the whole human

30:48

interaction component, like, you

30:52

know, this, this client was, you

30:52

know, rationing her meals had

30:57

just lost her husband, like, you

30:57

name it, like this poor woman,

31:01

and the delight in how fast we

31:01

were able to do the work that we

31:06

needed to do so that the bank

31:06

could then Lend her the money

31:09

that she needed, made the world

31:09

of difference in this woman's

31:11

life. And you know, the employee

31:11

who helped make that happen. Saw

31:17

it with a new lens like wow, I

31:17

make a difference.

31:20

Yeah. Oh, gosh, so

31:20

beautiful. It it. It is

31:24

interesting how financial

31:24

services or the real estate

31:26

space or that kind of stuff, we

31:26

tend to think, oh, I'll just

31:29

money. It's just that there's so

31:29

much heart in there that the

31:32

money is not really, in real

31:32

estate isn't necessarily a

31:35

logical thing. It's often driven

31:35

by emotion. And there's great

31:38

stories in there. If a company

31:38

chooses to do like you're

31:40

describing how FCT that tiny I'm

31:40

shocked. We're out of time. It

31:45

always happens. I'm looking at

31:45

that. But there's one question

31:47

that I do want to ask is it let's close out with that? What is next for FCT around customer

31:48

experience. Uh, you and I are

31:53

recording this in December.

31:53

There's a Christmas tree in your

31:55

background there that I see. You

31:55

talked about snow, you're

31:57

wearing a red sweater. It is it

31:57

is Christmas, and it is the end

32:01

of the year. But what's 2023

32:01

gap? What is what is the focus

32:05

going to be for FCT and customer

32:05

experience in 2023 and beyond?

32:09

Yeah, so we are

32:09

continuing to focus and

32:12

celebrate on some of the

32:12

successes we've had so that we

32:14

can emulate them and bring them

32:14

into 2023. For me, it's really

32:18

correlating the employee

32:18

experience to our customers

32:21

experience much more. I feel

32:21

like we're really just

32:24

scratching the surface there.

32:24

And I'm so passionate about

32:28

customer experience and employee

32:28

experience coming together to

32:32

make sure that those exceptional

32:32

experiences that we design and

32:36

to make sure that those happen.

32:36

You know, I just feel like as

32:40

soon as employees feel the value

32:40

that they deliver to the

32:45

customers day to day The sky's

32:45

the limit employees will take

32:48

care of your customers each and

32:48

every time.

32:51

Oh man, that's a

32:51

perfect way to close. There we

32:53

are. We have just closed on a

32:53

wonderful phrase. I love it. How

32:58

can people get in touch with you to learn more? I mean, you've got such a heart for the

33:00

customers. Clearly this is this

33:02

focus on customers friends, how can people get in touch with you to learn more about you and your

33:04

approach to customer experience

33:06

and about fct?

33:08

Yeah, I would say

33:08

LinkedIn is best. I love

33:11

broadening my network. And

33:11

especially you know, if you want

33:13

to talk CX get ready. I will be

33:13

there with my caffeine and ready

33:20

to listen and learn and grow. I

33:20

feel like connecting with a lot

33:24

of CX professionals not only

33:24

pushes me and to be better, but

33:28

also just the sharing and

33:28

collaboration because it's such

33:30

a unique and special career path

33:30

for many to get into. So

33:36

LinkedIn would be the best I

33:36

would be thrilled and open to

33:39

broadening my network.

33:41

Awesome. Well, I

33:41

will get your LinkedIn URL into

33:43

the show notes. Listeners just

33:43

scroll down, click the link and

33:46

you can have a conversation with

33:46

Tanya. Tony, thanks so much

33:49

today. I loved hearing about the

33:49

focus on on voice the customer I

33:53

loved you know hearing how much

33:53

the customer matters, but also

33:57

how much that matters in

33:57

creating the employee experience

34:00

that you want to create. And in

34:00

fact, how that's driving 2023

34:04

And I really kind of loved the

34:04

idea of the swear jar when it

34:07

comes to the word survey. Right

34:07

starting from the beginning in

34:11

the swear jar. Brilliant,

34:11

brilliant insights you shared

34:14

with me today, Tanya and the

34:14

listeners loved every bit of it.

34:17

Thank you so much for being on

34:17

CX passport.

34:19

Thank you so much for having me.

34:24

Thanks for joining

34:24

us this week on CX Passport.

34:27

Make sure to visit our website

34:27

cxpassport.com where you can hit

34:31

subscribe so you'll never miss a

34:31

show. While you're at it, you

34:35

can check out the rest of the

34:35

EX4CX website. If you're looking

34:38

to get real about customer

34:38

experience, EX4CX is available

34:42

to help you increase revenue by

34:42

starting to listen to your

34:44

customers and create great

34:44

experiences for every customer

34:48

every time. Thanks for listening

34:48

to CX Passport and be sure to

34:52

tune in for our next episode.

34:52

Until next time, I'm Rick

34:55

Denton, and I believe the best

34:55

meals are served outside and

34:58

require a passport.