0:00

The place of extraterrestrial, life is

0:02

one of the most exotic exciting,

0:04

a long endurance round human

0:06

history. Mars, in particular

0:09

has proven to be one

0:12

of the nearest planetary neighbors. The

0:14

red planet has inspired thousands of words,

0:16

ranging from the aliens science fiction,

0:18

contemporary Fringe theology

0:20

in the late 19th century in

0:24

the thing as astronomers

0:26

battle. we want another one that believes

0:28

that the existence of a great martian civilization

0:31

creating a scientific debate that crossed

0:33

over into far more fringe elements spirits

0:36

aneurysm with is a cool boom became

0:39

far more interested in the interstellar the

0:41

one might expect and one case

0:43

in particular have a young swiss

0:45

median named kathryn at least miller would

0:48

charge allium from presenting the world

0:51

with ninety surreal images of the hype

0:53

a color martian landscape but

0:55

with descriptions canadian society

0:57

and society and in language to be

1:00

the dark history by the facts

1:02

worse than fiction

1:07

hello and welcome to dock history season

1:09

six episode nine i'm ben

1:12

host as a waste i hope this episode

1:14

find you very well

1:17

i've got a a bit of

1:20

a correction to make from

1:22

last week's episode week's episode we get tired

1:25

i think it's probably time to address

1:28

i believe in my intro last

1:30

week i use

1:32

, phrase as i

1:34

say sales talking about new yorkers going

1:36

over to a new jersey to

1:39

stretch their legs and that was

1:41

what i meant to say why i actually

1:43

said was spread their legs ascend

1:46

see people cry see few

1:48

people i emailed me

1:50

to tell me how are they believed

1:52

of probably miss spoke to her and

1:54

yes you consider i absolutely men

1:57

as stretch their legs and

1:59

most people take it and and

2:01

found it quite humorous i think and

2:04

sep who ah and the offensive

2:07

the offensive and say you know he's gonna

2:09

people that found offensive and apologies

2:12

and was is just completely missed can a

2:14

weirdly it was actually my script and

2:17

i'd be route and screens

2:19

briefly and then ready

2:23

in the head when i read and then i read it back

2:25

allowed was does record in it and

2:27

i listen to it was editing it and

2:29

i listened to a against check the outside before

2:31

it well and , over that

2:33

time i not once thought

2:36

the i'd miss spoken and then as

2:38

soon as someone said to me and thing

2:40

is misspoke than others but yeah that's the wrong size

2:43

i'll do my for had been blind to it like blinkered

2:46

to it and i had my blinkers taken off

2:48

knows like on , for

2:50

my done you know i have i missed that and

2:52

it was very weird feeling but anyway and

2:55

yes apologies for that i i

2:57

absolutely did misspeak it was

2:59

definitely men stay stretching their eggs

3:02

taken a war hook doing a bit of exercise

3:05

that is about his i'm i'm

3:08

saying that corrections the last week's episode

3:11

and sides that just give you a quick reminder and

3:13

said the ask me anything at the site on the

3:16

do next month so the fifth anniversary

3:18

histories and you wanna get your

3:20

questions in am not be really cool

3:23

ah i see if he's producing

3:25

do it on social media all through

3:27

the email and links to

3:29

all those noise in contact me are

3:31

in contact the him show notes

3:34

and , if you can get those in by the end of the month

3:37

science i will say like digitally

3:39

as i could do to nine be cool an audience

3:42

and some really good christians are

3:44

made are console to answer in answer answer

3:46

some very interesting questions as every just how

3:49

am i emphasize but yes if you

3:51

ask manson and go ahead

3:53

and do say as by the end of this

3:55

month down be awesome so

3:57

without the way let's crack on with this brings

3:59

up it's cold catherine

4:02

elise miller and her mission to mars

4:09

the parents the mars rover the

4:11

landed on mars and twenty twenty one mox

4:13

messed up to the advancement of humans fascination

4:16

the red planet their interest

4:18

throughout history as waxed and waned the dogs

4:20

is why does the planet's orbit it's

4:22

existence has largely says the fuel

4:24

our desire for something else another

4:26

world that exists outside of our own

4:29

nineteen ninety six

4:31

when a meteorite found over a decade prior

4:34

was investigated i agree the scientists

4:36

it's i made some microscopic fossils

4:38

and direct excitement rocketed

4:41

globally as headlines screams

4:43

yes there really was or

4:45

at least i had been knife on mars

4:49

and when a brief flirtation of interest with

4:51

the planet as put up again and again

4:53

towel history the eighteen

4:55

nineties almost exactly a century

4:57

area mars had been had talk with

5:00

talk town and the long debate over the existence

5:02

of extraterrestrial life was being

5:04

family and said in popular circles

5:06

as fledgling science fiction ignited

5:09

the public imagination the

5:12

ancient greeks for the first to discuss

5:14

the possibilities thoughts on the other planets

5:16

though they can point to sell it is that life

5:19

around an infinite amount of unseen worlds

5:21

or limited supplies in the observable

5:24

universe the and

5:26

aristotle one out and neither were

5:28

right vs was considered unique

5:30

in the universe with no room for like to exist

5:32

anywhere else the

5:35

viewpoint largely backed up an expanded

5:37

upon by the incoming religious christian

5:39

processed who pointed out that the

5:41

uniqueness of christ and on with the fact that the

5:43

universe was created man alone was

5:46

enough to pop the question of extraterrestrial

5:48

disease from the away for good pretty

5:52

much stay that way throughout the medieval

5:54

period right up until the copernican

5:56

revolution the so the fundamental shift

5:59

in belief the someone at center the

6:01

universe rather than the air my

6:04

hands of planet sir telescopes by

6:07

people like galileo and kepler whose

6:09

work describing things like mountains on

6:11

the moon helps people to imagine wounds

6:13

in the universe much to my guests disparate

6:16

the non belief in extras do arise that they

6:18

happened the

6:20

seventeenth century by santa conversations

6:22

on the plurality of worlds published

6:24

by french novelist or not different now

6:26

and sixteen eighty six utilize

6:29

the argument heavily to suggest that if

6:31

other worlds was similar in geographical features

6:33

than they should be similar in ways to be included

6:37

religious movements still dominated the general

6:39

wealthy concepts of extraterrestrial

6:42

life began to creep into the popular imagination

6:45

and science slowly began to want

6:49

the end of the seventeenth century several

6:51

highly influential astronomy books have been

6:53

published disabilities and the

6:56

units were being observed matt

6:58

sketched in described with a fantastic

7:01

enthusiasm for the new science and

7:03

mars as the as neighboring planets

7:06

naturally became the subject of much interest

7:09

i sense a shaded areas around the post

7:12

said the imagination as the planet's

7:14

rotation seasons and through

7:16

the caps rule studied considered

7:18

and theorized upon with varying degrees

7:20

of six the eighteenth

7:22

century signed destroy my william herschel

7:25

whose name was used in the man bad moon hands

7:28

and studied the planet enough to suggest

7:30

that added dense atmosphere and more

7:32

than likely enjoyed a situation

7:35

in many respects similar to ours

7:38

the american astronomer benjamin gould

7:40

is the first to take photos miles and eighteen

7:42

seventy nine and though it was a decidedly

7:45

fledgling on the time the fighters

7:47

when someone forward in a series of existence

7:50

and habits the martian player ice caps

7:54

the emergence of darwinism in the late eighteen

7:56

hundreds down brief blow to the police

7:58

in the existence of extra july for

8:01

, while scientists

8:03

began to doubt the possibility of other planets

8:06

sufficient resources to support the emergence

8:08

of in life the

8:10

ideas of darwinism to code however

8:13

another , been germinating within

8:15

scientific circles after an italian

8:17

astronomer giovanni scap already

8:20

had observed the series is schools on the surface

8:22

of mars the he dumps channels

8:25

rami translating wording doing dishes

8:27

canals the observations that

8:30

up that new argument for life on other planets

8:32

caused by the allusions to allusions intelligent

8:34

he created structure that the words data

8:37

for long to admit i do the wrong

8:39

with a translation and the scars with

8:41

same been described as a complex system

8:43

is intelligent the

8:46

public interest in astronomy malls

8:48

in particular on a constant clean

8:51

it was only natural the world is fiction

8:53

should refer assassination of on other

8:55

planets and in eighteen eighty

8:58

passing great published across

9:00

the zodiac a science fiction

9:02

novel the did just

9:04

franken so of prototype of

9:06

the found footage on raw it dates

9:09

how the supposedly real account the protagonist

9:11

known only as can have a and his flight

9:13

to mars in a ship that resembled a dutch

9:16

east india man exams ,

9:18

shit was constructed of metal wolves that was freaky

9:21

and travel to the skin eleven hundred miles per

9:23

minute rather than being made of wounded

9:26

in albany about in the ocean after

9:29

landing on mars and discovering a brain

9:31

want the show on the planet surfaced that

9:33

conaway described to be similar to that vs

9:35

sixteen thousand and see greg's

9:37

adventurer salwan accept this discovery

9:40

on a world with pale green scrutiny

9:42

and before long and his first meeting

9:44

with a martian

9:47

about forty eight or nine inches in height

9:50

with lakes the same show in proportion

9:52

to the length and girth the body funny

9:54

because as was apparent on more

9:56

careful scrutiny the chest was proportionately

9:59

post longer and wider than in our

10:01

race advice he

10:03

greatly resembled the sarah families of the

10:05

area breed the sweet or german

10:08

I'm shaving bed

10:10

whiskers and mustache World.

10:12

Clarkson

10:13

show the dress consisted

10:15

of a sort of blouse and show confidence

10:17

of some software library and

10:19

had

10:22

was protected from the rising. an actual

10:24

real some ice from

10:27

which i'm down the

10:30

neck i

10:32

got my sandals the

10:34

area covering the house and

10:37

found around the ankle by a single carried

10:40

no weapon or even a staff and

10:42

i therefore fell but there was no immediate

10:44

danger

10:46

seeing me he started as within

10:48

ten surprise and not a little along

10:51

and tend to run the size and length

10:53

of his limbs however gave me immense advantage

10:55

in this respect and in less than a minute

10:58

i'd come up with and night my hand upon

11:01

these , and square kuzan

11:04

were bunch of communist leaning polygamous

11:06

the could not bring themselves to believe in life

11:08

on other planets taking turn away for

11:11

a deranged country bumpkin bumpkin

11:13

this doesn't stooping marry one of them in

11:17

greg's both is interesting for

11:19

free

11:20

very kind word ash know

11:22

which was the name of callaway speech and

11:25

secondly it was the first science fiction

11:27

novel to attempt to detail another

11:29

world language complete with grammatical

11:32

terminology

11:34

the earliest fiction concerning mars

11:36

martians were fairly similar to humans

11:39

are they seem to have an uncanny ability

11:41

to create a utopian life

11:44

century progressed however the creatures

11:47

slowly to shift and the introduction

11:49

of elephant trump's unicorn horns

11:51

and giant heads world grafted

11:53

onto the increasing the on human like

11:56

cigarettes and the same time

11:58

american astronomer orlando

12:01

was busy published in his own contribution research

12:03

on mars from is polluted observatory

12:06

narrative ninety

12:08

ninety and here astronomers and

12:10

extrapolated upon scamper rallies earlier

12:12

tuning theories optical

12:14

illusions and dried up rivers advice

12:16

caught some traction but it was lows

12:19

were captured the popular imagination

12:22

no had met hundreds of lines on the surface

12:25

of mars and he was convinced that

12:27

they were intelligently designed and constructed

12:29

canals used by a martian civilisations

12:32

carry water the series

12:34

so i'm largely ostracized by the scientific

12:37

community based talent as a speaker

12:39

and popularity with the non specialists greatest

12:42

fighters work into the spotlight paid

12:44

up a generation of science fiction moods has

12:46

for decades to come including hg

12:49

wells who publish the infamous war

12:51

wounds in eighty nineties and

12:55

he wasn't just the students and science fiction

12:58

as who are terrorizing on life outside

13:01

stranger marriages of interest in the late

13:03

nineteenth century wasn't as the astronomers

13:06

and the spiritualists

13:08

most local was pushing his theories on the

13:10

american side of the anti astronomer

13:13

, hard boiled spiritualists camille

13:15

summary on was going around in france

13:17

with theories that may do the same political

13:21

nightmare scenario had scenario dramatic

13:23

unique same way with words they inspired

13:26

his audience the of whom

13:28

would never touch a telescope in their loans and

13:30

as such the married invited them to engage

13:33

with their much nations unlike

13:35

low however sumerians

13:37

studied spiritual isn't almost as much

13:40

as he studied mars and it's hilarious

13:42

retain me cost overrun is one

13:45

when i love canal theories he

13:47

believed that the planet was in is doing fries

13:50

and that the cows were likely an attempt by

13:52

an intelligent species to keep their habitat

13:54

along use i believed

13:56

in the report says spiritualists mediums that

13:59

time to try

14:00

i'm all for a form of astral projection

14:02

and who upon their arrival

14:05

greeted by utopia in society

14:07

of well groomed well mannered pushback

14:09

similar to humans but without the rough

14:11

edges he was so confident

14:14

of this tree the in eighty ninety one

14:17

he announced a prize of one hundred thousand francs

14:19

able to anyone who could find the means of communicating

14:22

with another planet and of receiving

14:24

a response for

14:26

drawn up an eccentric machine different

14:29

least it wasn't only engineers

14:31

and astronomers that began working clean again

14:33

with mom throughout the

14:35

eighty nineties swiss psychology

14:37

professor dado flournoy undertaken

14:40

extensive case study the median

14:42

name's catherine elise miller who counted

14:44

automatic writing amongst our most dramatic

14:47

skills it , my writing

14:49

an interesting enough by itself her

14:52

claim that it was the writing of a martian language

14:55

was certainly was fascinating been

15:00

on december ninth eighteen sixty one

15:03

catherine at a smaller growth and modest

15:05

surroundings the multi cultural city

15:07

of geneva push on the very edge of

15:09

the border between switzerland and fruits the

15:12

father was a hungarian mansion or

15:14

some other raise the children at home that

15:17

have four children since two older brothers

15:20

and a younger sister on for years after

15:22

a self diagnosis the failed

15:24

to do with childhood knowing when she was

15:26

just three years athens

15:29

upbringing was fairly unremarkable and

15:32

she was known to have been have client timid child

15:34

afraid of the do different stay

15:36

home with her mother rather than make friends with

15:38

our own age

15:40

twenty hours vast free time sitting

15:42

by a mother's side netting embroidery

15:44

in the solace of the family home the

15:47

situation because their mother to pasta

15:49

concerns the classroom was not was

15:51

particularly happy child

15:54

she had issued always fell on isolated

15:56

disconnect from a family which

15:59

one point the to ask our parents

16:01

has she been adopted or had

16:03

been a product of a mix up at the hospital

16:07

like many teenagers she found different

16:09

from the rest of her siblings and claim that

16:11

she felt feelings of homesickness the

16:13

she could never quite bad thing one

16:16

example this came as father prodigious

16:18

pretty girl he spoke hungarian german

16:21

french spanish and italian was

16:23

also having a rudimentary command of english

16:25

nine and great encouraged as

16:27

friends typed language

16:30

no she attempted to learn german for three years

16:32

it was never a natural endeavor and she found

16:34

language an area that neither enjoyed nor

16:37

excelled in

16:38

in fact in most areas of study

16:41

casper improved to be an infant student at least

16:44

she , an introverted character he found

16:46

more interesting and creative streak that runs

16:48

for her embroidery and a penchant for daydreaming

16:51

daydreaming through school until the age of fifteen

16:54

at which point she took and fail to

16:56

have find a way that resulting ,

16:58

leaving education for good and taking

17:00

up an apprenticeship and a local still context

17:02

now she did

17:05

things began on just fine the

17:07

zoos are around this time and emmett keynes

17:09

by katherine began to notice some rather

17:11

odd things happening in our life

17:14

her mother always had spirits is leanings

17:17

and a practice table tipping that especially

17:19

circles drought catherine's childhood

17:22

when i younger sister it died her mother

17:24

had claimed that she'd seen a vision of an angel

17:26

hovering over at bedsides and not for she had passed

17:30

perhaps more like her mother and she wanted

17:32

to accept aspirin also

17:34

began having peculiar and sometimes

17:37

disturbing vision

17:39

the morning she wanted to see a bright

17:41

line filling her room and style

17:43

of an odd alien abduction style

17:45

fever dream she said she had same

17:48

strange an unknown beings

17:50

casting shadows around the wolves surrounding

17:52

her bed the

17:54

after that event

17:56

who can hang with a friend she found

17:58

that someone was watching her my you can

18:00

check she thought they were being followed

18:02

by a man in a long brown room similar

18:05

to those of among panic

18:08

situation just a fantasy recognize

18:10

that sewer i can see

18:12

anyone attempt

18:15

everything that man wants to fall when

18:17

she was ten years following an attack from

18:20

and the time she been walking home from school

18:22

when a dog jumped out at terrified

18:25

she froze on the spot but before

18:27

the don't reach their it was chased away

18:29

by the same man in brown rice the

18:33

strange visions seem to occur periodically

18:35

front the final years of that teams and

18:38

the manning brown rice would show up in a peripheral

18:40

vision from time to time but

18:42

always disappearing just as quickly

18:46

perhaps the most profound experience came when

18:48

she was eighteen when she had just returned

18:50

home from a trip in a country during a protest

18:54

only a long journey she'd had the whistle

18:56

was coming from behind her age

18:58

time she turns see where i was coming from should

19:01

say nothing that would have made the same

19:04

that night she worked with a severe pain in

19:06

her chest it was restricting our breathing and

19:08

preventing us from speaking and

19:11

inexperienced sounded a lot like sleep

19:13

paralysis she said she found have frozen

19:15

has listed from a pillow by an

19:17

unseen force that allowed at

19:19

push our crime to her mother who came

19:22

to our eyes by remaining the scenes from

19:24

iran he turned out

19:26

that the boakye had included a variety of food

19:28

and meant that cause respiratory reaction

19:30

in catherine amongst they were amazed

19:33

she quickly was it now

19:35

experience had been quite strange but

19:37

she would not find our is true significance

19:39

until much later on but

19:43

age of twenty things in captains nice

19:45

cancer so down and the strange

19:47

visions at the monk like figure that appeared

19:50

sporadically thrown a to i just became

19:52

less and less frequent and to lower nothing

19:54

more than an inconsequential memory africans

19:58

he to work hard and soaks up and

20:00

if the home with their family and aside

20:02

from the death of her father passed away the

20:04

ages since i've slipped a fairly

20:06

quiet ten years you are

20:09

thirtieth birthday and i discover

20:11

his spirits isn't that led

20:13

down decidedly different palm

20:16

during the

20:18

winter of eighty ninety one when she was thirty

20:20

years old the things took a turn towards

20:22

the truly bizarre for catherine of the

20:24

barring a problem or the book about

20:26

speech isn't published nineteen eighty

20:29

nine written by leon

20:31

denise a french spirits is and asta

20:33

who lent should extensively throughout europe he

20:36

laid out core concepts in the belief that

20:38

the soon siblings the

20:40

and like a bizarro self help with

20:43

a pseudo philosophical religious man he

20:45

made his be around the good becoming a highly

20:47

influential work that would put a great many

20:49

people into the boom in his speech isn't

20:53

and for herself was clearly no i mean and

20:55

after barring the book from one of our friends at work

20:58

she began a company in the same friend to

21:00

spirits are sacco came to discuss

21:04

inspection circles where a popular

21:06

way for small groups of people to come together

21:08

and further their specialist the

21:11

main focus for the group was on spirit

21:14

communication and so least one

21:16

member would need to have supposed medium

21:18

mistake politics asked arrested

21:20

the members would choose and with particular care

21:22

in all manner of criteria ranging

21:25

from gender to their emotional

21:27

qualities and whether or not they had

21:29

negative or positive electrical chooses

21:32

whether that was estimate table

21:35

taping was one of the most of them practice

21:38

rituals within these circles which

21:40

involve the grave sin around a table and

21:42

speaking allowed the last of the alphabet similar

21:45

to a weed you born the table with tape

21:48

on tape cracked letter allowing letter allowing

21:50

to spend our song sentences spy

21:53

as tedious impression taped it

21:55

was a massive success and the sack

21:57

with the practice them were a huge driving

21:59

for behind explode speech likewise

22:03

table tipping was a key feature the cycle

22:05

a catherine quickly sailed into emerging

22:08

as south in a newsroom progress

22:11

on quickly the catherine and within a week

22:14

she was knocking out page to page of automatic

22:16

ranger in their suits excited

22:19

by the new mediums prospects the circling

22:22

had tons and by march of eighty

22:24

ninety two a month after has as

22:26

mating choose regularly churning

22:28

out advice from the spirit world sienna

22:32

the new group grew to an unwieldy series

22:34

and split was formed with catherine taken

22:37

a position of secretary of the new small

22:39

great points in the design and

22:41

by the end of march she was chosen by the

22:43

spirits as this to show medium integrate

22:46

and introduced as spirit guy twenty

22:50

fifth eighty ninety two eleven

22:52

, around a large and heavy dining

22:54

tables are quick to leave leave

22:57

table is same motion and several

22:59

spirits come and give their names

23:01

and testifying to the pleasure it gives them

23:03

to find themselves amongst themselves is

23:06

that this sounds that mademoiselle miller

23:08

begins to distinguish pay claims

23:10

with long white streamers moving

23:13

from the floor to ceiling and then

23:15

a magnificent stocks which in the

23:17

darkness supposed to her alone throughout

23:19

the whole it sounds we all

23:21

go from this that she will end by saying

23:23

things more distinctly and will possess

23:26

the guests to have wins

23:29

i prefer

23:30

violent movements of the table to to a sphere

23:33

who calls himself david announced

23:35

himself as the spirit guide of the group then

23:38

, just way to another spirit he says

23:40

he is victor hugo and the guide

23:42

and protect her as mademoiselle miller who

23:45

is very much surprised be assisted by

23:47

person of such important a

23:49

kind of and mama

23:51

jama is very much agitated just

23:54

it's is shivering is very cold

23:56

the day restless and see suddenly

23:58

balancing itself

24:00

the table a grinning very ill

24:02

save his face with long red hair

24:05

she's , frightened the she demanded

24:07

lies beneath beneath calmed

24:09

i'm reassured the sega disappeared

24:12

afterwards she she's a magnificent

24:14

okay of roses different hues

24:16

being placed on the table before one of the city's

24:20

all at once she sees a small snakes

24:22

come out from underneath the okay which

24:24

calling quickly saves the flowers

24:27

looks at them tries to reach the hand of

24:29

them of them france than

24:31

comes back slowly and disappears

24:33

in the interior of the okay

24:35

the only dissolved and that free wraps

24:38

a given on the table terminating the sounds

24:41

all this was this was rapid development the

24:44

cats friend who'd gone from interested

24:46

outsider to the medium as ahead

24:48

of his spirits in a circle a little more

24:50

them the new to acquainted

24:52

spirit guide victor hugo with

24:55

spirit of one of the most famous french rights

24:57

as having also insist on classics

24:59

such as the hunchback of notre dame and

25:01

les miserables famous as

25:04

he was however his position as position

25:06

as guides the catherine with not

25:08

uncontested and in august

25:10

of eighty ninety two months

25:12

after the incident and hidden and

25:14

new spirit made spirit made entrance

25:16

calling himself leopold

25:19

a five year old man dressed all in be

25:21

leopold seem to as nine catherine

25:23

in a past nice and said to

25:25

something of an accessory to hugo

25:28

to arrive shortly after to protect catherine's

25:30

and this new spiritual in treated

25:33

in in a pitcher leopold continued

25:36

to move saline upon us census demanding

25:38

attention from the circle and forcing

25:40

catherine into trance like sleeps where

25:42

she would briefly channel his spirit and

25:45

to be other cities would shut down the sounds

25:47

to terminate his abilities phoenix the

25:50

months this game continued within the circle

25:53

with leopold january presenting himself

25:55

as an antagonistic character who

25:57

would speak to the great for the projected arrogant

26:00

appearing genesis catherine's relationship

26:02

with huge i oftentimes

26:04

, jealousy would manifest itself in a vindictive

26:07

spy of miss just such as putting

26:09

captain's chair out from under her as she went

26:11

to sit down at the table in his sleep state as

26:14

what is blocking oh communication from any

26:16

other spirit they

26:18

pump wasn't always mean however and

26:20

he introduced himself as catherine's protector

26:23

and the man who to pay throughout her teenage

26:25

years and chased by the attacking joke

26:27

when she was ten said the

26:29

more the suggested that the circle

26:31

classroom is currently sitting currently sitting a bad

26:33

influence and he was made me being

26:35

antagonistic in order to force

26:37

and move to a more fitting sack as

26:41

private continued fly through eighty ninety

26:43

two and was covering continue to

26:45

attempt to run sounds is within her sacco

26:48

they were frequently interrupted by leopold eventually

26:51

in june of eighteen ninety three things

26:53

came to ahead and the sack was disbanded

26:56

i'm i'm catherine joined a new group in the winter that

26:58

year leopold had studied taken

27:00

too much as her spirit the

27:03

do so completely changed his identity

27:06

at , point between the split of

27:08

our original cycle and the forming of this

27:11

new one haven't had become visiting

27:13

the regional sack was mentors known only

27:15

as madame be in order

27:17

to have to refuse

27:20

why the sounds is not an be and

27:22

shoes catherine to the story of cases osama

27:25

suggesting that leopold was perhaps

27:27

the enigmatic italian physician and

27:29

occultists also known under a

27:31

pseudonym count on a sunday detective

27:35

an alchemist psychic healer a mistake

27:38

bizarre my mingled with the high court

27:40

trout europe and was tentatively linked

27:42

with the one time queen of france marie

27:44

antoinette the leopold inform

27:47

the city's of the table during a seance

27:49

in january of eighty ninety four was

27:51

one of catherine's previous incarnations

27:55

the time leopold concerned

27:57

this story even began playing up to

27:59

his new i'm one of the new features

28:01

of kiffin sciences was be offering

28:03

of okay medical advice to her

28:05

sick or disabled scissors

28:08

the time she'll say began

28:10

having visions of eastern city

28:13

the audience and of exotic palms

28:15

palm trees and various tigres with head

28:17

scratching turbans before long

28:20

catherine have sex doubt the story and

28:22

revealed that not only was she marie antoinette

28:24

reincarnate be shared experience

28:26

another lies to even before that a

28:28

cement dany the daughter of a fourteenth

28:31

century herbs shape and the eleventh

28:33

twice as prince of rao kanye aka

28:36

who reigned over the kingdom of canada and

28:38

the south of india another

28:40

said grandiose said grandiose

28:42

she had nevertheless been banned lies

28:45

upon her husband's grave offers premature

28:49

naturally catherine's life when like

28:51

this are some time she continued

28:53

to work in a silk shop and how sounds

28:55

his on sundays never charging has

28:57

since it's has pleasure

28:59

instead putting messages from the other side

29:01

and informing people dead horse lies

29:04

as a former special mission

29:06

the cancer the week she kind to receive

29:09

echoes about communications with the spirit

29:11

world and the foremost hallucinations she

29:14

wanted wanted just before she fell asleep

29:16

and awestruck of birds flying around her as

29:19

well as lingering feelings of inexplicably

29:21

sadness oh joy that would continue

29:23

on for days since is reva the

29:26

wind however life was more

29:28

or less choir and uneventful eventually

29:31

her medium shit caught the attention of august

29:34

the mantra a professor at the college

29:36

of geneva he was interested in studying

29:38

her major mistake time

29:41

the major invited her to hold sense

29:43

is a house begin a march eighteen ninety

29:45

four and invited other professors

29:47

psychologists thinkers and academics

29:50

who are interested in obtaining first hand experience

29:52

with a speechless medium it

29:55

was thirty cents is with an amateur the

29:57

she met with state or flournoy as

30:00

professor of psychology at the college of geneva

30:02

with he never interest in cyclical

30:05

phenomena

30:06

clone i was instantly taken with catherine

30:09

and invite her to work with him in a longer term

30:11

study or is it closely observed

30:13

her sciences and learn more about leopold

30:16

cousins lives is marie antoinette and

30:18

cement dany and of our processes

30:21

as a medium if

30:23

it sounds like the foundation for one of the strangest

30:25

studies of all time

30:27

it was really nothing to what would eventually manifest

30:30

when catherine decided that concern

30:32

herself i knew was historic as the

30:34

nobles was just not interesting enough

30:37

and embarks on spiritual voyage

30:39

of instead of proportion

30:44

born in geneva and eighteen fifty four

30:46

data flowing was introduced to the

30:48

study of psychology during his time reading

30:51

philosophy university in leaps in nineteen

30:53

seventy nine at the

30:55

time psychology was mostly barriers

30:58

philosophical analysis the throne

31:00

i was interested in the cutting edge practices

31:02

and recently emerged in san pioneer

31:05

in scientific circles chose

31:07

to install treat the subjects with empirical

31:10

observation and eighty

31:12

nine he takes his purposes of the bar

31:14

tree and embarked on a series of long term

31:16

case studies in topics as broad as

31:18

reaction times and synesthesia

31:22

having been interested in the society for psychical

31:24

research fluently and a pasta

31:26

interest in the super normal folks

31:28

in heavily on the concepts of mediumship which

31:31

he believed was an important areas study

31:33

that would better help to explain psychology

31:36

in all areas of the human personality

31:39

when he met catherine he wrote a short

31:41

description of his first impressions of the

31:44

made him and question is had told him beautiful

31:46

person around thirty as natural

31:49

complexion with hair and eyes almost

31:51

black with an intelligent and open

31:53

book

31:54

have a modest background and of a reproach

31:57

morals she and her life honorably

32:00

an employee a commercial fun at

32:02

how work perseverance and capabilities

32:05

of bought a two one of the more important posts

32:09

user gave catherine the pseudonym as

32:11

helen smith and name which he took

32:13

from his own daughter when she used round

32:15

the documentation of this

32:18

your eyes to separate royal characters that

32:20

she seems to be chain and as either

32:22

the royal circle for marie antoinette

32:25

or the hindu cycle for some and dany

32:28

and meticulously he documented their

32:30

appearances drawing out the complicated

32:32

story arcs the catherine ways sometimes

32:35

over several years

32:38

fraser's is marie antoinette had

32:41

a has an accent characteristic of it

32:43

she recognizes me sadly she

32:45

has some aloe carrier aloe

32:47

complete in sensibility of the hands the

32:50

and and attitude the don't

32:52

know who mademoiselle smith is if

32:54

she is asked to give back to date to

32:56

reprise correctly as to the month

32:58

and day the indicates a year the last

33:01

century eccentric that

33:03

all at once as state changes

33:05

the royal accent gives way to her

33:07

ordinary voice she seems wide

33:09

awake or mental confusion has disappeared

33:12

she is perfectly clear as the person

33:14

states and circumstances the

33:17

have no memory of the state from which

33:19

is just a match

33:21

as for i came to understand and graphs

33:23

conference historical narratives assailants

33:26

in november of eighty ninety four through

33:28

a test wins the study when his dad

33:30

cycle introduced itself catherine's

33:32

already impressive spiritual repertoire

33:35

this one however perhaps

33:38

even more fantastical

33:41

ahmed al smith perceived and

33:43

the distance and a great hi it's

33:45

a bright light she got

33:47

a tremor which who might cause they're hard

33:50

to see speaking after which he

33:52

seemed to her as though her head were empty

33:54

as she would no longer in the body she

33:57

found herself in a dense folks which

33:59

change excessively from blue to

34:01

a vivid rose color grey and

34:04

then to black i

34:06

think she says and the table

34:08

support yourself on one leg seem

34:10

to express a very curious dating

34:12

movement she has

34:15

ah growing larger always

34:17

larger and becomes finally

34:19

as large as a house

34:22

how's the here to handing than the table

34:24

gives by wraps the maitre

34:26

that which you have so long desired mom

34:29

was ausmus who had been had raised

34:31

finds herself feeling better

34:34

the distinguishes three enormous clients

34:36

one of them very beautiful on

34:38

what am i walking she asked the

34:41

table replies oh wow

34:44

mars appearing

34:47

to have undergone some kind of as to travel

34:50

from went on to describe the scenes around

34:52

her as she stood on the surface of

34:54

mars

34:56

arrogance without horses or wills making

34:58

sparks with a guided by houses

35:01

, fountains on the roof a cradle

35:03

having the curtains an angel made

35:05

of iron without stretch wings wings

35:08

seems a seems people exactly

35:11

like the inhabitants virus saved

35:13

the both sexes more the same trousers

35:16

barry ample and alone blouse

35:19

drawn time around the waist and decorated

35:21

with various design the

35:23

child in the cradle was exactly

35:25

like have children

35:28

france spiritual voyages to mars when

35:31

the altogether unit as

35:33

added eighteen forty seven the american

35:35

spirits this medium and mesmerized andrew

35:37

jackson davis published his wife

35:40

had to take categorically that mars was

35:42

inhabited and on with satin cheap

35:44

to venus imaginary what

35:47

fluently sound different mid catherine however

35:49

was however was of intimacy in her reported

35:52

visions i've been following

35:54

two years she describes in detail

35:56

the daily lives the martians their

35:58

modes of transport social structures

36:01

and gatherings their family sounds

36:03

and perhaps had bogus claim he

36:05

learned the martian language

36:08

sometime sounds is had been on

36:10

a constant line it's development evolving

36:13

in new techniques and experiences

36:15

and the beginning had contact with the world

36:17

of marion's finesse was simply acted

36:19

out in a so of mew pantomime

36:22

as , passed she began to bring

36:24

in the modes and messages speech to fit

36:26

the time periods the she was supposedly visiting

36:29

her accent changed and i vocabulary

36:31

shifted along with her posture movements

36:35

after the first martian science and eighty

36:37

ninety four catherine spirit guide

36:39

a pits return her to a more athletes

36:42

cease and desist seems she

36:44

focused on furthering has stories is maryanne

36:46

two thousand and some and dany in

36:48

february eighty ninety six however she

36:51

returned once more to the red planet and

36:53

visited the dead son of one of the cities

36:55

of the sound on

36:58

surprise and considerable confusion the

37:00

dead man could no longer speak french choosing

37:04

to speak only emotion

37:07

had an erroneous that's the table and

37:09

how to long conversation with an imaginary

37:11

woman who wished had to enter a serious

37:13

little car without wheels or horses

37:16

she became impatient with this woman to

37:19

after having access by the time friends now

37:21

persisted in speaking in an unintelligible

37:24

tongue like chinese

37:26

leopold revealed to us by the neutral finger

37:29

that it was the language of the planet mars

37:31

this woman is the mother of a lexus

37:33

mobile reincarnated on that planet

37:36

and they hadn't herself will speak ma

37:39

hi helen begins to resign with

37:42

increasing volume realty an incomprehensible

37:44

jargon to begin of which

37:46

is as follows

37:48

mitzvah much more a meanie

37:50

chow nine him much to take message

37:53

to norse mythology patel key a

37:55

person i've never never never mention

37:58

it adds nothing in a jiffy

38:02

fortunately enough his spirit was eventually

38:04

able to travel back to the as the time

38:07

generally censored catherine and

38:09

, more gained the ability to speak french

38:11

french as far as blown it was concerned

38:14

offered up an interesting opportunity to

38:16

study and attempt to translate

38:18

to martian language and endeavour

38:21

he took and endeavour a fair amount of enthusiasm

38:24

he says that down the difficult path was

38:26

simply to ask leopold dream when it sounds

38:29

as if he would be able to translate the language

38:31

for him the day they

38:33

about confirms he was unable to do

38:35

so seeing as he didn't own demotion

38:37

in which himself however he

38:39

talks illinois and method of invoking and

38:42

the spirit within catherine and snr

38:44

who had been by to citizen or far as an

38:47

ass and so was well acquainted the acting

38:49

as interpreter oh sure i

38:51

had a day was to place to have his fingers on

38:53

cousins forehead while she was in a hypnotic

38:55

sleep and as an hour would recognize

38:58

the king this new

39:00

abilities translate martian since

39:02

martian story arc quickly became more

39:04

grandiose her main contacts

39:06

main contacts planet a man named as funny

39:09

turned out to be a mysterious high ranking

39:11

martian who retain the utilized

39:13

a flying machine

39:15

in a confirmed with catherine the he was

39:17

the reincarnation of a hindu for key named

39:20

anger who'd been a dear friend some

39:22

and dany

39:23

this overlap between cycles indians

39:26

became something of a same as many

39:28

the individuals on mars turned

39:31

out to be reincarnations if various

39:33

characters from cousins historical cycles

39:37

as she could see to visit moss aspirin

39:39

grew closer to several martian figures

39:42

and elaborated upon their lives

39:44

the name of the invited out to his home

39:47

a large box i can say with trumpets

39:49

on each corner and a fountain on the roof

39:52

his garden was voted for the like to

39:54

do with pink quarter and trees with purple

39:57

leaves the inside was

39:59

fun with an

40:00

the like instrument and when she entered

40:02

she was greeted by is pat an

40:04

ugly beast with a sense hail

40:07

the head of a cabbage with a single

40:10

large green eye in the center six

40:12

pairs of feet and a body entirely

40:14

covered in pink hair

40:17

it is that was it was quite different from

40:19

the other martian animal life we otherwise

40:21

seem to be slightly altered versions of

40:23

as animals such as day

40:26

and june snails

40:28

on another occasion catherine was invited

40:30

to some kind of dinner function when

40:32

she described the guess see in various finalists

40:34

from scratch off the ten

40:37

piece band played instruments shaped

40:39

like five feet tall perhaps

40:42

surprisingly over the months and years

40:44

as catherine's visits to mars a

40:46

stone i slowly began to fall in love

40:48

with her right

40:50

payments the martian visitations continued

40:53

and soon i strive to make sense of

40:55

the martian language the classroom assisted

40:58

landsat several

41:00

months he attempted to encourage her to begin

41:02

writing and anguish similar to previous

41:04

sounds is where catherine's arm with stiffen

41:07

she would request paper and pencil and

41:09

announcing time message and then

41:11

begin to read in dramatic purposeful movements

41:14

long letters signed by leopold and during

41:18

this time she described the sensation

41:20

of forced upon arrest which he said

41:22

was caused by leopold creeping in directing

41:24

her movement

41:26

curiously she did hold the pencil different

41:28

nature and our automatic ryan sessions resting

41:31

the pencil between as someone in this singer

41:34

as opposed to holding a usual fashion

41:36

between index and middle finger

41:39

so nice requests were answered in august

41:41

of eighty ninety seven when catherine tate

41:43

finally introduce writing her martian

41:46

vision it was a little different

41:48

to have previous bouts of automatic writing

41:50

eye and said have been directed by leopold

41:53

she simply compete visions of symbols

41:55

onto the paper the for her heading

41:58

at the first time rights him

42:00

after very non martian visions

42:03

mama's ausmus tons of ice in the winner

42:05

reinhard and the sky was very

42:07

dry and she exclaimed oh

42:09

look it's all that is already

42:12

time to go to bed monsieur le marcher

42:14

either

42:15

do you see how that is i see a

42:17

fairly hey and that read

42:19

i only see his head and he ended his fingers

42:22

he has no road and he was the other

42:25

as now with him by ,

42:27

has some lettuce at the end of their fingers

42:29

on a bit of paper quick give

42:31

me some people

42:33

what resulted was a page filled

42:35

with six large lines as scribbled

42:38

symbols the team for a close to the

42:40

bryant of an infant

42:42

in week however as leopold

42:44

had before the martian snl

42:46

would take hold of our wrist and right

42:48

similar symbols the in a much more

42:50

elegant

42:52

these pages of buying scripts prince

42:54

be a huge help for flournoy who then

42:56

set about meticulously piecing together

42:58

and martian language

43:01

it was something of a fantastic stroke

43:03

of luck the flown i found

43:05

in patients get them off now for that the

43:07

for each night today existed emotion

43:09

there also exists and exact french

43:12

equivalent

43:13

it's my and seemed obvious given cats and stars

43:15

language was also french and it may

43:17

have lent towards the idea of fraud or

43:20

front of my the language you kidding

43:22

remarkably we

43:25

speech and rising emotion the

43:27

scene pans repeated themselves and

43:29

i wrote it is very much like

43:31

a real language it was harmonious

43:34

in sound and the symbols were grouped into

43:36

clear words which defined say

43:38

it consistently ideas

43:40

ensure soon i concluded that

43:42

the martian that comes from is producing was

43:45

categorically a real natural language

43:47

however a language that is ultimately

43:50

very close and construction different

43:54

these conclusions by flournoy appeared to support

43:56

conclusions they'd already been fostering for some

43:58

time

44:00

catherine was not a simple fraud

44:03

but was it had transpired act

44:05

in our various characters associated

44:08

with our subconscious mind

44:10

i am weary as his study is concerned sciences

44:13

flown i decided to introduce his theories

44:15

take her and separate and eighty nine unsurprisingly

44:19

needed catherine know leopold impressed

44:23

science leopold told flournoy

44:25

three catherine who was asleep

44:27

in a usual trance like stay at the time that

44:30

there is some things more extraordinary

44:32

and he refused to hear a more of it

44:35

several months after this flown i pay

44:37

the catherine directly showing her

44:39

his detailed analysis and translation

44:42

of the martian language and just to rub

44:44

so into the wound the also explains

44:46

how many that visions went directly against

44:48

the known science of the atmosphere of the red planet

44:52

and objected stay as i'm still

44:54

much unknown to scientists and the ultimately

44:57

she was sure that none of her visions came from

44:59

within herself

45:01

the realize provocations did however

45:03

have something of that zoom into sex when

45:06

, month later a new martian cancer

45:08

was introduced into the martian sciences

45:10

in the form of an alien man named raimi

45:13

he promised to show how the world of the oh

45:15

promotion a previously

45:17

unseen area of mars with a whole

45:19

new landscape and language the

45:22

papal does not to move be sealed

45:24

and semen only three feet so

45:26

that they had joined hands had joined tip

45:28

with sharp nails

45:31

a hyper color vegetation of her usual

45:33

martian landscape when i more replaced

45:35

instead with desert scenes and houses

45:38

of far simpler box like structures

45:40

with no windows or doors the

45:43

flournoy there's new vision was the direct

45:45

was a if he's challenging catherine's previous

45:47

machine vision and

45:50

eighty ninety eight soon i finally

45:52

completed his study his cousins made him ship

45:54

abilities recording the entire studies

45:56

and is nineteen hundred birds from india

45:58

to the planet mars the book

46:00

was published to some academic a clean

46:03

a note was held up as a treaty scientific study

46:05

into the world of a psychic medium his

46:07

belief in existence of telepathy and tonic

46:10

can he says they had voiced in the book states

46:12

foster slightly harder criticism in

46:15

, was perhaps a fortunate center

46:17

events given is growing weirdness in

46:19

history of cousins medium shit abilities

46:22

abilities nice rubber tree burned down and eighteen

46:24

nineteen him as an apples rebuild

46:27

he continues to study mediums rename

46:29

three studies through the tunnel century

46:31

before trying his hand to more downs my psychology

46:34

and city and nineteen twenty catherine

46:39

she suffered some more after the publication

46:41

of fluently study of her medium shipped from

46:43

people who thought of as nothing more than a fraud

46:46

i phone or himself defended or in several

46:48

cases i knew

46:50

out as have been funded by a wealthy american

46:53

specialists in order sense to continue

46:55

to give seeds is our leisure

46:58

time she can't talk with the various narrative

47:00

on expanding upon emotional

47:03

and diversify into the moon and you ravens

47:06

eventually she began to isolate yourself

47:08

from public and began painting the martian

47:10

landscape she so and a spare visions

47:13

days after the death of her mother she

47:15

did move away from our extraterrestrial police

47:18

and instead she began to believe that jesus

47:20

christ was any spirit guide adding

47:23

our hands amazing images with heavy

47:25

religious imagery

47:27

he died nine years after fluently in

47:29

nineteen twenty nine

47:32

the belief of the existence of life on mars continue

47:34

to various levels acceptability right

47:37

up until the nineteen sixties when the scientific

47:39

evidence that the martian atmosphere began

47:41

to mellow

47:42

using public interest in martians to

47:44

finally wine the

47:46

second half and twentieth century be accepted

47:49

view of the red planet was one of us

47:51

and have a cold desolate wind devoid

47:54

twenty eight and nine human

47:56

interest as never entirely disappeared

47:59

as witness the nineteen nineties when

48:01

the idea of life on mars was briefly reignited

48:04

however compared to the strange visions

48:06

of mediums by katherine alleys miller from

48:09

one hundred years prior it was

48:11

really bothered tempted and quickly grounded

48:13

some immunity

48:14

most they're still figures today who play they

48:16

practice astral travel and times

48:18

communicate with life on mars they

48:21

, decidedly on the fringe and come

48:23

on nothing like the scientific interests

48:25

as those nineteenth century mediums

48:27

process and astrologers at

48:30

once cause

48:35

the what was really going on during and

48:37

sounds is and just were was

48:39

her martian language ability coming from flown

48:42

i concluded that whilst they were many elements

48:44

of cousins medium shit that remains difficult

48:47

to explain such as her ability to

48:49

my son's grants or from where her knowledge

48:51

of all the minute details made of have various

48:53

historical cynical came from the

48:56

most likely origin spirits to

48:58

communicate with her was from within

49:00

her own subconscious for

49:02

every item and as catherine stories as seems

49:04

to check out there were also a nominee

49:07

the handwriting of leopold was markedly

49:09

different to hands own handwriting which

49:12

might just one thing however there

49:14

was also different scenario examples is joseph

49:17

balsamic that

49:19

might be excused by out a believer

49:22

more difficult to square way is the

49:24

fact that would i had i spoke with a snake

49:26

italian accent during the time she was

49:28

channeling the about the spirit

49:30

was apparently unable to actually speak

49:32

or understand italian student

49:35

awkwardly ignore anyone who tested

49:37

disparaged language ability another

49:40

mark against leopold with a distinct

49:42

lack of knowledge when it came cohort a

49:45

pretty grainy and weaving complex stories

49:47

for the prom or romantic veto

49:50

he failed to every called a single day

49:52

or name that could be used to investigate

49:54

his actual knowledge of the past a

49:56

most knowledge and eighteenth century fight remedies

49:59

was impressive i was catherine's

50:01

mother who had spent much of allies

50:03

preparing folk remedies around catherine

50:06

while she was a home

50:09

flournoy instead believed that most

50:11

of the kansas was fairly easily

50:13

explainable when considering concerns

50:15

own personality he's

50:17

, that leopold was a manifestation

50:19

of cats and subconscious an initial

50:22

battle between liberal them back to his

50:24

right to speak or it was manifest

50:27

have manifest deep desire to you as to you

50:29

preservation he believed

50:32

to have least that she was a dead queen

50:34

of france reincarnate was powered

50:36

by her propensity to gravitate towards

50:38

the noble and grandiose and have

50:40

a taste for that which was above the common people

50:43

and i believe that she somehow people say

50:45

into the mundane reality as a day to

50:47

day things in a regular phone and

50:50

he was no surprise to so annoying the in

50:52

odis her reincarnations she

50:54

was always a members daddy high society

50:59

throughout the long history of specialism

51:01

there's been an equally long string of mediums

51:03

associate with the police have been soundly

51:06

proven as outright fraud the

51:09

case is catherine on a smaller however

51:11

was eventually seen as syncing so edith

51:15

the kind of his publication soon

51:17

i considered that catherine was displaying elements

51:19

of what hate to be polymorphic

51:21

personalities and , the research

51:24

into such as a soda was almost nil at that

51:26

point in time a lot with cats

51:28

as come to be seen as one of the earliest

51:31

documented examples is disassociated

51:33

with and see disorder and opened

51:35

a way to scientists including

51:37

those including the area or area decisive experiences

51:40

the subconscious mind and the psychology

51:42

of linguistics and emerging languages in

51:45

particular his belief that catherine subconscious

51:48

a create some of her spirits for protective

51:50

purposes has been preserved

51:52

and built upon in modern psychology catherine

51:56

have belief in hemorrhage mystic ability was

51:58

absolute the reject consumers

52:01

conclusions until the dream your

52:04

history is today we we should i

52:06

be mediums he possessed greatest last

52:08

a marketing or the willingness to penn

52:10

their stories highlighting them for future

52:13

generations is ,

52:15

one of the strangest stories come from the spiritualists

52:18

boom the late nineteenth say twentieth

52:20

century and by saw one

52:22

of the my psychologically interesting nothing

52:26

else the embrace of a story

52:28

by the surrealist artist of the time

52:30

is a testament to our creative mind

52:33

and ability to spin a world

52:35

that was far ahead of his time

52:43

that was the story of turin

52:45

at least smaller which was

52:47

a really interesting one i thought so let's

52:49

get back and talk a little bit more about that after

52:52

the show and breaks welcome

52:55

back ah yes

52:58

the story of personally smother

53:00

i thought it was really interesting

53:02

that

53:04

the i've read so many stories us

53:06

and nothing new in chains and made

53:09

, himself , a

53:11

penny basically any you

53:13

come to address these stories

53:17

the a discounted position is ryan

53:20

, you i almost always going to

53:22

the stories with the idea that france right

53:24

in the back and then it's like okay

53:27

can i prove a difference in a prison

53:30

this during the so interesting

53:32

in the sense that it wasn't really trying to do that

53:35

and that the guy studying her was

53:37

a genuine psychologist and instead of communist

53:39

or proves that she was made him

53:41

and that she was turning spirits although

53:44

he was fully opens the idea

53:46

that she may have been doing that and

53:48

, was like sony invested

53:51

in this idea that she was in

53:53

are sharing and since as decisive

53:55

identity disorder which and you

53:58

know was really interesting and really interesting

54:01

arias read ahead of his time in in two

54:04

ways for me it's like katherine and

54:06

has stories of malls are kind

54:08

of boy was the head of state times in

54:10

many respects you know if

54:13

she was before bore the world's a mean

54:15

of course there were other people talking about miles before

54:17

her and it was

54:19

finally she must have picked up on it

54:21

through

54:23

a was a token mean jury

54:25

nice decades but still

54:27

you know stay friends to

54:30

be so of coming up with this of the she was

54:32

coming up with and wasn't through to be friends and

54:35

so you know in a

54:37

while she was car like this kind of wicked

54:39

science fiction writer too

54:41

long before so of science

54:43

fiction had really matured the it was like

54:46

stay with destiny around and that woman and

54:48

there was and science fiction novels like a

54:50

passage greg the zodiac wheels

54:52

man is episode the came out before habits

54:55

she still work on that bleeding edge is kind

54:57

of science fiction in a way and in think

54:59

that's why did you know i've been day as

55:01

i've mentioned that the surrealists story

55:03

because i'm fine

55:06

about time me in many respects and

55:08

, flournoy in many respects

55:10

his vote was was cool head of his

55:12

time as well and and yang talked

55:15

about the psychology is a in is

55:17

very like scientifically because

55:19

up until then psychology been told him and his

55:21

consistency cooney and

55:23

and so he was really like pioneer in this

55:25

the scientific approach to some community

55:28

and the way he's a study

55:30

to her the

55:32

schools is had different identities who is

55:34

really fascinating and quite

55:37

difficult to read because he spoke was written in

55:39

like nineteen hundred over stay in it's no

55:42

i knew that kind of old outdated

55:44

psychology and ,

55:46

very specially psychology so easy one

55:48

own outdated it's already point of above

55:50

my head he's also been

55:52

in his late nineteenth century hand that

55:55

is just my be difficult intends to retreat

55:59

and yeah there's really peculiar writing style anyway

56:01

where he just oh my word vomit is

56:03

is a risk with different followed say

56:06

there's all that and makes you a difficult but

56:08

pretty fascinating and and i

56:10

don't not as much for me to talk about

56:13

it from moyes of opinions on it

56:15

i'm pretty much in agreement with state

56:17

of lonely and don't i don't

56:19

think she was still traveling to manzo

56:22

or simon spirits from mars

56:24

and

56:25

or anything i that i'm insanely on board the

56:27

decide that yeah she was she was making this

56:29

rap and but the same time

56:32

same time agree and i don't think she was just a simple

56:34

fraud and that does this

56:37

the a lot more to all of our stories

56:39

and any study there for quite

56:41

some time some stories in

56:44

that quite amazingly and that's

56:46

actually but i do em

56:48

get quite of down in details at

56:50

all the time and but it's worth

56:53

reading his caught say his book

56:55

is called from india is planet mars and

56:57

you can get it online if you want to read it

56:59

some i see available on archive the orcs

57:01

are you can read if you want to and

57:05

but it goes that goes more into

57:07

and ah i will weaken

57:09

the hindu and of oil cynical of marie antoinette

57:12

and some and dany

57:13

the and and said you wanted to read more about our

57:15

i recommend that but i also think it was

57:17

really and a terrorist is his our

57:20

analysis of the motion language

57:23

which is insane how

57:25

i am the amount of work paper

57:27

in he didn't miss to help of

57:29

a friend who was a a linguist

57:31

ablaze and and and they did

57:33

so like for but the stay mouth wealthy

57:36

stay super in it makes

57:38

it quite spooky and there he

57:41

was able to create you know

57:43

translate it and my on

57:45

alphabet and everything that

57:47

means a catherine genuinely knew that language

57:50

to see subconsciously

57:53

on of learn

57:55

create and then learn as a

57:57

like a language that she was able to replicate

58:00

over and over and that's quite

58:03

incredible and you

58:05

know is a sick it's goes to

58:07

show what the mindscape

58:09

while i guess at an enemy in she always

58:13

she didn't really new the

58:15

thing that was happening in a sense as she generally

58:17

tentative so has answers were in this

58:19

sleeps on issues in like a slight

58:22

chance and then when she would wake up she

58:24

would say that an initiate she she

58:26

didn't remember anything that was going on so

58:28

she she had known if

58:31

you believe her she she says

58:33

, idea was happening but yet she was a

58:36

nice this language like over and like

58:38

again and she wrote and lot

58:41

of his and

58:44

white martian alphabet it was

58:47

is quite impressive and impressive and

58:49

weirder as well and was when

58:51

you look at it she wrote some

58:54

like i mentioned at the first one she wrote

58:56

was just by copying out

58:58

the images that she'd spin shown

59:00

by the by these last name

59:02

weather and then you

59:05

can say there's clearly someone roaring

59:07

as symbols and it looks

59:09

really like an infant's handwriting is dreadful

59:12

bethesda you're not writing your puppy

59:14

and right you are essentially during like

59:16

that

59:17

then the other hand ryan because there are

59:19

like and examples

59:21

, the headlines headlines

59:23

i'm dave the hamline that issue

59:25

is he is just quite beautiful

59:27

handwriting and it's smooth and his concerts

59:31

and you can say this much she's not drawing that

59:33

she's genuinely writing and it's

59:36

and , quite uncanny and and

59:38

quite spooky and

59:41

the i don't believe anything strange was going on

59:44

are you know but i can see how

59:46

some people would have especially back in

59:48

near the that the nineteenth century and

59:51

better me out i don't think anything crazy

59:53

was going on going think cgm

59:56

she was yeah probably did have this

59:58

dissostichus than psy sort

1:00:00

a but yet really interested same

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a a hope to enjoyed it a

1:00:06

i would guess that most people of come to the

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same conclusions and see as psychological

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study , than a a psy psychical

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a a but if

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state change because of got the drawer for the

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to show giveaway a for much

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a coming up a the little

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extra end the episode state you

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for that thanks very much for listening

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all see you again for listening of weeks

1:01:16

from now until then take can