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visit data visit cou to learn more

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that d t a i

1:13

k u dotcom

1:22

Oh, my.

1:33

As. This

1:35

normally. The and. our Yeah

1:40

no. Right?

1:43

We didn't call you a, you know, I gotta

1:45

thank the Lord.

1:54

That was me and our producer,

1:56

Ryan Kelly and uber driver

1:59

in Dallas. The late, one night

2:01

in the middle of what felt like a monsoon.

2:04

we were creeping along waterlogged

2:07

highway heading toward highway barbecue place called

2:09

sunny brian smokehouse Why?

2:13

Okay, let's back up few weeks

2:15

I had read an article in City Journal

2:17

called Big Deal is a big deal. Then.

2:20

Authors column clark and Joel

2:22

Kotkin wrote that more Americans

2:25

had moved to the Dallas Fort

2:27

Worth Metro area over the past decade than anywhere

2:29

else in the U.S. in,

2:31

another. Decade or so the area will reach

2:33

ten million people surpassing

2:35

six ago as the country's third

2:38

largest metro area. and i

2:40

thought Really. I've

2:42

been to Dallas a couple times and it never

2:45

struck me as the de facto

2:47

capital of America's heartland

2:49

as the clerk and Kotkin article

2:51

put it so. we

2:53

called up column clerk The

2:56

most of what you love about city

2:58

life you can have to greater

3:00

degree than you ever imagine in

3:02

the Dallas area. We called Joe

3:04

Cut into Dallas appeals

3:06

to people for specific reasons

3:08

and it's appealing to wider and

3:10

wider group.

3:12

Then. "We called up the sky Erik

3:14

Johnson, I'm the mayor of Dallas, Texas, I

3:17

told the mayor right up front that I'm

3:19

a New Yorker and therefore wee bit

3:21

skeptical that. A city like Dallas

3:23

could be some sort of models for the twenty

3:25

first century A, you get replicate

3:28

New York but with Dallas

3:30

offers I don't think there's a city.

3:32

In that country, where

3:34

you can have the quality of

3:37

dining experience and take

3:39

in and off broadway performance

3:42

or go in here symphony or

3:44

an off road performance at are simply how

3:46

does one the ten best symphony hall

3:48

in the world melt are they're

3:51

cheaper places to live the let's say and else

3:53

yes but you won't have words as

3:55

told you about our the place where you can have

3:57

access to first run broadway

4:00

That. Of on Broadway, yes, but you're going to pay more,

4:02

this is the best deal in the country

4:05

that's pretty compelling argument if we can visit,

4:07

can we knock on your door? And say hello should,

4:09

and as I saw, be hurt if you doubt I'll

4:11

come get you from the airport in fact.

4:15

When the mayor of a major American city

4:17

says he will pick you up at the airport if you come

4:19

visit. Well you get on

4:22

that plane so after exchanging

4:24

emails and calendar invites

4:26

with the mayor's team that's what

4:28

Ryan and I did but. then

4:31

That last minute. We've got the news

4:34

the mayor had an urgent family

4:36

matter. No airport, pick up

4:38

and. No, mer at all.

4:41

Then. Too late teens or plan so we

4:43

are on the plane landed, just

4:45

in time for that torrential downpour,

4:48

and by now we are also really hungry

4:50

because not only. Was the mayor supposed to pick us up

4:52

the airport bus we're so said dinner

4:54

with him to which is how Ryan

4:57

and I found ourselves in the back

4:59

of that uber? " despondent

5:01

and questioning our, decision we

5:04

weren't planning to calm and so he said

5:06

if, you come if will set you

5:08

up, at the airport now

5:14

we're like. In airport submarine I

5:16

have to say, you're a good driver that

5:19

was, little. scary driver thought i'd

5:22

rather than ourselves

5:26

Then. Good news is that our Uber driver was

5:28

for Relic and he got us to

5:30

our destination we did not come all

5:33

the way to Dallas to drown on

5:35

highway thank. You so

5:37

much, of advocating the

5:39

flood a lot of yeah the water if

5:41

I could give you ten stars would

5:43

argue the, five or never

5:45

deny, be. Safe the

5:47

other good news is that Ryan had found

5:50

the only twenty four hour barbecue place

5:52

in Texas. semi brian smokehouse

5:55

we were practically be only people there

5:57

but The had food.

6:00

Hi, how are you what's your favorite

6:02

very they resent? Like

6:04

a curvy. Have you feel about the need

6:06

to set of? I don't really get us

6:08

us.

6:09

And yeah to compare me to say that a frito

6:11

pie I was as the site of Er

6:13

Een of said I'm A.

6:16

meat potato is potato gargantuan

6:18

baked potato stuffed with

6:21

barbecued beef brisket We

6:23

also got some onion rings.

6:28

There's a real her are at his legal actual

6:31

shots. of fryer

6:33

Every onion ring and our basket could have colored

6:36

a mid sized dog. That's

6:38

true, I guess. Everything really is

6:40

bigger in Texas. Is

6:43

it also? That her. The

6:45

Day on freakonomics Retail, the first installment

6:48

of a two part series on Dallas

6:50

because. You know it big.

6:53

The day we start with what's Dallas

6:55

doing right every, single

6:58

city single america would benefit

7:00

from more permissive land use policies

7:03

more predictable real estate

7:05

development processes we

7:07

encounter texas hospitality

7:09

That's a really friendly place, some in

7:12

noticeably friendly. It really is sincere as

7:14

way of life.

7:15

And we make a list of big, these

7:18

big problems, crime and crappy

7:20

schools is probably good start. Crime

7:23

and crappy schools that would

7:25

make New Yorker feel right at home,

7:27

so should I move. Not

7:31

so fast, nice. Sometimes

7:34

when set aside for the live here.

7:48

There are, economics radio

7:50

broadcast that explores the hidden inside

7:53

of everything with their house

7:55

even partner

8:05

Americans. Don't move nearly

8:08

as much as I used in, the nineteen

8:10

eighties and nineties when

8:12

and six million people moved each year

8:14

from one state to another these days

8:16

it's usually. Around four million a year

8:18

as was the case in twenty when

8:21

four point three million Americans

8:23

moved to different state, some

8:25

of that was plainly driven by the. pandemic

8:28

we're in time it's always

8:30

been this way but especially now where places

8:33

are competing ferociously for human

8:35

beings based on quality of like

8:37

considerations That again, his

8:39

column clerk, one of the to authors

8:41

of that City Journal article, "The Got Me Interested

8:44

in Dallas"

8:45

All over the heartland, there

8:47

are relatively.

8:49

I'm glamorous places that are

8:51

trying really hard to step up their game

8:53

in the competition for talents they may

8:55

not say their imitating Dallas fort worth it

8:57

in effect they are. Mark is

8:59

an economist at the George W. Bush

9:01

Institute and Southern Methodist University,

9:04

he is also a fifth generation

9:06

Dallas A. Left, you

9:08

think Clerk is just booster?

9:11

That it is number from twenty ten

9:14

to twenty twenty. The Dallas Fort

9:16

Worth Metro area grew around one

9:18

point, three million people. About

9:21

forty percent of that was from domestic

9:23

migration twenty percent from

9:25

international migration the rest from

9:28

natural population growth demographers,

9:30

do not expect this trend to

9:32

stop by the mid twenties thirties

9:35

they project The biggest metro areas

9:37

in the U. S will be New York

9:40

and Los Angeles and then Dallas

9:42

what's. attracting so many

9:44

people to the dallas area The

9:47

got all the reasons you might move

9:49

from one place to another. The job

9:51

opportunity. Maybe you move

9:53

for love or to be in your family.

9:57

Maybe you're just sick of shoveling snow.

9:59

Whatever. The reason when you're considering

10:01

a move, there is one metric that usually

10:04

takes precedence over the rest cost

10:06

of living, and if you're thinking of moving from place

10:08

like New York or California. The

10:11

Dallas. You will be

10:13

in shock at how much less he will

10:15

spend on home. Rents.

10:18

In Dallas or about half we'd

10:20

pay in New York groceries

10:22

or about forty percent cheaper downtown,

10:24

Dallas not surprisingly among the most

10:27

expensive areas in the region, and.

10:29

It does feel like real city,

10:32

even if you're coming from place like New York,

10:34

although it is significantly less dense

10:36

and the density fades fast

10:38

as you leave the. City, centre as

10:41

you had north towards oklahoma you

10:43

get into what used to be small

10:45

towns and suburb Why

10:47

no frisco Allen mckenney

10:49

than? That do not small anymore

10:52

the population of Dallas itself grew

10:55

nine percent of the past decade to one

10:57

point three million people which, sounds

10:59

impressive until you compare that to the

11:01

county's up north collin and

11:03

denton seventies which include cisco

11:05

include plano and the other cities

11:07

column clark to sneeze Their

11:09

population grew thirty six

11:11

percent. Those two counties

11:13

now have combined population of

11:16

around two million people, which is more

11:18

than all but four cities in the U.S.

11:20

s All of these cities have

11:22

daytime populations roughly equal

11:24

to their nighttime populations in

11:26

some cases bigger, so what

11:28

that tells you is. People.

11:31

Are busily working there every day, they

11:33

are big centers, a business, and would you call

11:35

back when you've got huge metro

11:38

area made up of bunch of

11:40

emerging cities? As opposed to just

11:42

central downtown in the suburbs,

11:44

fighting urban economists like me are wrestling

11:47

to name it when I tend to like

11:49

as that way of describing it's is. Kind

11:51

of an emerging polycentric

11:54

metropolis oftentimes.

11:56

had this idea that you have a central business district

11:58

when you say downtown they're literally The only one

12:00

of them that models breaking down

12:02

all over America. The question

12:04

is.

12:05

To what degree do you really

12:07

strong alternative downtown? Really

12:10

strong job center is commercial center is

12:12

lifestyle centers. Emerging in far-flung places.

12:14

In Dallas is done that in some ways better than anywhere.

12:19

Okay. So what? put aside the polycentric

12:22

metropolis for now and focus on the city

12:24

of Dallas before,

12:26

flying down from New York back when

12:28

Mayor Eric Johnson was still speaking

12:30

to us? i'd asked him to describe

12:33

the dallas neighborhood where he lives

12:35

I. Live in East Dallas, east, ours

12:37

is really beautiful, it's where near

12:39

a white rock lake in an area

12:42

where our cities arboretum located,

12:44

so there's lot natural beauty is. Not,

12:46

where I grew up by that's where live now and

12:49

I'm raising my kids and married

12:51

and we have lived there about. eight

12:54

years or so and you live in a

12:56

house on lot with lawn

12:59

and stuff like that Yeah,

13:01

oh, element, single family home on decent

13:03

sized lot, so pretty cool. It

13:06

it walkable are not really. Then.

13:08

Area where we are, it is very walkable

13:11

and that though Lake is right, there is got

13:13

great trail system right, but if you want

13:15

to go meet friend for. Lunch sure,

13:18

have coffee in the morning with colleague,

13:20

are you typically getting in your car walking

13:22

on bike? The Ours is more

13:25

of driving town, then maybe

13:27

some the city's that you might be used to

13:29

if you're New Yorker on these coast's cars

13:32

breeze central to the culture

13:34

here, but as city that is. I

13:36

made a concerted effort over the years

13:38

to become more walkable, but I still

13:40

would say if you're going to go meet a friend for lunch you probably

13:42

would get in your car and then described

13:45

the neighborhood where you grew up.

13:47

I grew up in an area called West Dallas so

13:50

basically that area growing up

13:52

was really rough while. a violent

13:54

crime and drug related

13:56

Crime and it's change, the was

13:59

gonna lot better. There's still some issues.

14:02

We should say more, most big cities

14:05

had significant increases in violent

14:07

crime and twenty one, the numbers

14:09

in Dallas sell when really ten percent.

14:12

Then. Credit is gone to new police chief Any

14:14

Garcia, who is an advocate of using data

14:16

analytics to deploy police more

14:18

efficiently, it's worth noting that

14:20

the crime drop in Dallas was. accomplished

14:23

with fewer arrests, so

14:25

that's a positive", I asked

14:27

column Clark to take a step back

14:30

and look at the even bigger places to

14:32

state his case for why

14:34

the Dallas. Fort Worth region has been drawing

14:36

more people than anywhere else in the country.

14:39

I would suggest that there are

14:41

three things that have made all the difference

14:44

one is offering relatively

14:46

affordable, high quality of life.

14:49

Secondly, being an exceptionally

14:51

welcoming place to newcomers of all

14:53

kinds.

14:54

That's a really important thing for city to get, right?

14:56

And third

14:58

operating more or less Commerce

15:01

friendly growth-friendly policies

15:03

particularly in the Suburban areas. So,

15:05

let's say we take those three major

15:07

factors and I want to steal

15:09

from Dallas, give me one specific

15:12

for each of the three factors. Then. Affordable

15:14

quality of life friends, think every

15:17

single city of any size

15:19

in America would benefit from more

15:22

permissive land use policies, more

15:24

predictable real estate development

15:27

processes we have snarled. Up our

15:29

whole home building industry in

15:31

red tape and America, and it strangling

15:33

our cities snow, the downside

15:35

of that permissive housing policy

15:37

is what know that Dallas and Texas.

15:40

And generals have relatively weenie of Labor

15:42

laws France, and so do you have a much higher rate

15:44

of workplace injuries in the construction industry?

15:46

No, I've never seen any evidence of that, but I

15:48

think that on the land use

15:51

France, the single biggest reason why

15:53

land use rules are too strict in

15:55

to many places around America, is

15:57

that the sentiment among local people.

16:00

"Against" Change is typically strong, so

16:02

you could say the downside of relatively

16:04

permissive rules is that change in fact

16:07

will come, think it's possible

16:09

to persuade people that when change

16:11

comes. To their city, it will find

16:13

quality of life improvements, new amenities, new

16:15

parks and new arts facilities and science,

16:18

and they will benefit, and that's an issue

16:20

of communication leadership helping.

16:22

People to see the big picture of that's

16:24

hard work, but it seems to be doable.

16:27

Let's go to your second Point welcoming

16:29

newcomers. That's a nice slogan

16:32

to make people feel. Welcome. Even in place

16:34

where they might feel out of step

16:36

with the established mores.

16:38

But how did he actually do that? When

16:40

is she was really cultural? attitudinal,

16:43

and I think nonprofit organization civic

16:45

groups, business associations all can just

16:47

sort of decide that they really

16:50

liked to bring in the new folks and? Given

16:52

responsibility it's then there's an issue of

16:54

public policy and, i

16:56

am inclined to think they're that getting

16:58

the policies right is a game

17:01

of singles and doubles not home runs things

17:03

as simple as print your city

17:05

forms and lot of languages lot

17:08

of it can be kind of little things but they

17:10

do seem to add up Your

17:12

third factor: commerce friendly,

17:14

what does it mean specifically to be

17:17

commerce friendly? All over America,

17:19

we have overly restrictive occupational

17:22

licensing rules. We. Make it too

17:24

hard to start hair braiding salon

17:26

to use, arguably the most famous example,

17:28

this happens everywhere, but there's lot of

17:30

variation across places than it probably

17:33

won't. Surprise you to know that the Dallas Fort Worth area

17:35

scores better than most in terms

17:37

of either starting new business.

17:42

One recent study ranked the Dallas Metro

17:44

area the eighteenth best place

17:46

in the U.S. to start a business out of the

17:48

one hundred largest metres (L.A)

17:51

was fifty second and New York

17:53

sixty One big factor

17:56

clerk did not mention was taxes

17:59

in the state of tech. There is no state

18:01

or local income tax. You may

18:03

have heard about that in all the news coverage about why

18:06

people like Elon Musk and Joe rogan

18:08

have been moving to Texas from California,

18:11

Texas. relies primarily on

18:14

six point two five percent sales

18:16

tax and federal funds to balance

18:18

it's books texas cities

18:20

including dallas and it's suburbs also rely

18:22

on property taxes and many

18:24

of them tack on and additional two percent

18:27

of sales tax Overall, the

18:29

average texans spends about eight

18:31

percent of their annual income on

18:33

state and local taxes in California,

18:35

it's nine and a half percent in New York,

18:38

thirteen percent. But

18:40

taxes, of course, pay for public

18:42

goods and Schools Police

18:44

and Fire and Hospital Transportation. So

18:47

how does low-tax Texas

18:49

balance that we need to rest

18:51

for little bit with the

18:54

trade-off? between that, maintaining relatively

18:56

moderate taxes and seeing

18:59

good investment in public goods. Sky

19:01

high tax rates will kill and economy total

19:04

failure to invest in the public goods will kill

19:06

it just as well America has lots

19:09

of big cities. That have

19:11

the worst of both worlds. High

19:13

tax rates with supposedly the

19:15

promise of the public goods and yet

19:17

the public goods don't deliver go

19:19

ahead point at New York New. york

19:22

has gigantic efforts to use taxpayer

19:24

dollars create affordable housing affordable lower

19:26

income people and yet it succeeds

19:29

less than most cities at that there are

19:31

number of cities that are higher than average

19:33

taxes The'and and have

19:35

below average educational attainment levels.

19:38

Schools. Under perform even by the standards

19:41

of big American cities, so I

19:43

also don't think it's accurate in Dallas fort

19:45

worth to think of us as having

19:47

an extreme position of very.

19:49

Low taxation and very low investment in public

19:52

goods, would say it's below

19:54

average on those two things, but

19:56

the question is, what exactly are we failing to

19:58

do public transit? Is not the? It always

20:00

drank here and yeah we have lots of things we

20:02

could do on the education front that we don't have the money

20:04

to do when,

20:07

people are thinking about moving. it's

20:09

hard to overstate be peeled of good

20:11

public schools outlook is always

20:13

about the kids it's always about their been education

20:16

That's a glazer, an economist at Harvard

20:18

who studies city.

20:20

It. Is by far the most important enough, unfortunately

20:22

the hardest that us, and which, when I know how to fix

20:24

mean, don't know if it's the politics of housing supply.

20:27

know how to make New York affordable, you build a hundred

20:29

thousand units year that the technological

20:31

sex with the schools they're living

20:33

breathing organism with teachers and kids

20:35

into. Some trouble back and it's just really hearts,

20:37

but if you gave me the magic one of his, I would

20:40

fix those schools.

20:41

And the public schools in the city of Dallas

20:44

indeed need fixing.

20:46

When I asked column clerk's coauthor

20:48

Joel Kotkin for his list.

20:51

The biggest problems with Dallas.

20:53

Here's what he said. The I'm in crappy

20:55

schools is probably a good start. The

20:58

nightmare Erik Johnson, who Grew

21:00

up in Dallas and started out in public school.

21:02

If the schools have improved since

21:04

he was young, they

21:05

are better. We still have a lot

21:07

of challenges though. It's school

21:09

district. That's poor school districts.

21:12

It's school district, where are non-native?

21:14

English speakers or large portion

21:16

of the district. And so they're extra

21:18

costs and challenges to achieving

21:20

educational superiority. And

21:22

that respect. It's challenge its heart,

21:25

the

21:25

mayor himself had an unusual

21:27

trajectory in school. He

21:29

grew up with working-class

21:31

parents, both of whom had multiple jobs. He

21:34

shared a bedroom with three siblings. He

21:36

went to the public elementary school through

21:38

first grade where he had teacher

21:41

Miss Ferris. And here is

21:43

how he recalls, what Miss Paris saw

21:46

in him while

21:48

he really seems to get it and

21:50

really wants more and wants to do more, and

21:52

then for her to go the mile. Not just

21:54

go that's neat and then just give me a bunch of A's,

21:57

she said, not only do I see

21:59

potential there. gotta, gotta

22:01

go to something about this.

22:02

What she did was get him placed in

22:05

a scholarship program through the local boys

22:07

and girls club to attend prestigious

22:09

prep school called greenhouse

22:11

She when found a proof for him

22:13

that literally took kids like me,

22:16

pay for them to be tested, as

22:18

they did well enough on these admissions test

22:20

to place them in prep school and

22:22

then provide the transportation and the scholarship my

22:24

for them to go.

22:26

Johnson graduated from Greenhill and

22:28

went on to Harvard for undergrad, then

22:30

that a law degree from Penn and master's

22:32

degree in public affairs from Princeton.

22:34

Given his background, Johnson

22:37

calls himself a unicorn.

22:39

I'm a unicorn in the

22:42

convergence of some

22:45

amount of academic ability

22:48

and the tough circumstances and some

22:50

one identifying that

22:52

and then massing that with the resources

22:54

that were necessary to. take

22:56

advantage of it meaning there's meaning lotta kids

22:58

with that potential who just aren't identified aren't

23:00

given the opportunity Iraqis,

23:03

I don't think that the talent and the desire

23:05

part is as rare out

23:07

of the it's. Every child, but

23:10

think there's plenty of children

23:12

in every neighborhood in every city

23:14

in those countries whose got plenty

23:16

of academic ability and plenty of desire,

23:19

but what you don't have a ton of

23:21

arm my first grade teacher,

23:23

Miss Ferris.

23:25

The Mayor Johnson is trying to make

23:27

unicorn stories like his less

23:29

rare, not just an education,

23:31

but in the labor markets too.

23:33

More more now I'm talking about workforce

23:36

development and upskilling where people

23:38

whose skill set is not really

23:40

great match for the jobs of tomorrow

23:43

if. we focus on giving people

23:45

the means and the ability to

23:48

fill these jobs that exists but are going

23:50

unfilled because people really are prepared for them

23:52

spin to be honest with you a lot

23:55

of these problems really will solve themselves

23:57

we talk about affordable housing affordable example Housing

24:00

becomes more affordable when your income goes

24:03

up so we need people to make

24:05

more money we need people to have more wealth

24:08

and those sites the things that happen when people

24:10

get better education and have better skills

24:15

and. how much leverage does the mayor of dallas

24:17

have to push this kind of promises

24:19

"Dallas is a wonderful place to live

24:21

with, totally awful", said. The

24:24

government.

24:25

After. The break, what it means for a

24:27

big city to have form of government where

24:29

the mayor is weak, also

24:32

how the Dallas Museum of Art just got hold

24:34

of an. Exceptionally desirable painting these,

24:37

was place in that things

24:39

inception basically was promised to

24:41

themselves and, he

24:43

was lunchtime in Dallas

24:45

and guess where we went sour

24:48

cream audience. Sees, chives

24:50

shop be barbecue sauce

24:53

really good this is freakonomics

24:55

radio and stephen dubner in dallas texas

24:58

would be right back

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in the united states and or other countries

27:18

There's

27:24

would anywhere. The understand the presence

27:26

of Dallas, it helps to understand the past.

27:29

Or much of it's history, the city had racism

27:32

baked into its policies

27:34

and it's neighborhoods. In nineteen

27:36

sixteen, Dallas became the first city

27:38

in Texas to impose housing

27:41

segregation, bad law. The

27:43

in the nineteen fifties and sixties

27:45

black neighborhoods like deep elements

27:47

string town were practically destroyed

27:50

by the new interstate that plowed through them.

27:53

In the nineteen Seventies, the city of Dallas

27:55

seized black own homes

27:58

to expand a parking lot that you. Three

28:00

weeks year for the state fair of Texas

28:03

we. still very much had the legacy of jim crow

28:06

we had all kinds of ugly race or policies

28:08

That. Again is the economist's column,

28:11

Clark, the Kennedy Assassination in

28:13

November, nineteen sixty three lead people

28:15

to develop this idea that Dallas was quote

28:17

city of hate fair, they both and.

28:19

From CBS News in Dallas,

28:21

Texas, three shots were fired, President

28:24

Kennedy's motorcade and downtown

28:26

Dallas. "Republican the Mirror and

28:28

there was lot of aspects of the city that people didn't

28:30

entirely like in this business

28:32

and political establishment really at that moment",

28:34

said: "We're going to modernize the place.

28:37

dramatically and they did in

28:39

the years after that, Dallas became

28:42

doubt, the most I know Stout's ex. Forward

28:45

looking a historical city

28:47

you could imagine. In. The process of

28:49

becoming historic as you

28:51

put it, and especially in dealing with the ugly

28:53

racial policies, word their

28:55

specific measures meant to correct

28:58

those policies or was

29:00

it more? Of let's change

29:02

the business environment than hope that the ugly

29:04

racial history concede into the path.

29:07

I. Think there was a typical set of policies,

29:10

but in typical set of attitudes

29:12

the standard policies the city went through by

29:14

thing school desegregation implementation

29:17

of nineteen sixty eight fair. Housing Act:

29:19

All of these things were standard, I

29:21

think what was a little typical was

29:24

this very concerted effort

29:26

on the part of the business leadership

29:28

to dramatically change the. Tone to

29:30

really incorporate black voice

29:33

and then, before long as that of Hispanic voices. It

29:35

wasn't long after the sixties before

29:38

Dallas had to Jewish women who were

29:40

mayor and us along at the that the first.

29:42

Black. Man to be mayor and today's

29:44

Mayor Eric Johnson is also a White Man

29:46

Rep. and Dallas, so you're pretty fast

29:49

changes on that front the spirit of the

29:51

business community back. My grandfather was Dallas

29:53

businessman and was very involved in lot of

29:55

this discussion, so I grew up as a kid around the dining

29:57

room table hearing about. Then.

30:00

The that I'm describing, I know.

30:01

That

30:04

the. dallas metro area today is still

30:06

quite segregated one recent

30:08

study found it to be the seventh most

30:10

economically segregated of fifty

30:12

three metro areas in the us that

30:14

have more than a million people The

30:17

southern part of Dallas is an area that

30:19

physically bigger than the entire city of Atlanta

30:22

very large majority black or Hispanic

30:25

and, in this vast area. the

30:28

total number of homes and

30:30

jobs has gone down this century not

30:32

up it's difficult story

30:35

We talking about a very large

30:38

part of the city.

30:39

That a former mayor of Dallas

30:42

Laura Miller.

30:43

Sixty percent of the city of Dallas Landmass,

30:45

but only provides ten percent of

30:48

that pro. The tax revenue. So

30:50

that gives you a sense right there about how upside

30:52

down things are.

30:53

There have been repeated efforts to boost

30:56

South Dallas, but it's hard.

30:58

One big reason. The city,

31:01

this big Dallas, as an unusual

31:03

system of city gum.

31:05

The two basic types of city government this country

31:07

are helpful, manager and

31:10

mayor council. That again

31:12

is the current mayor, Eric Johnson. We

31:15

have council manager here in the hallmark

31:17

of the. The helpful major form

31:19

of government is that you have. Please,

31:22

in an individual who's not elected

31:25

by the who is appointed by the City

31:27

Council, you've placed within that person

31:30

operational control over the city

31:32

and that person is what we call a city manager.

31:35

Some other big U.S. cities do

31:38

have council manager governments. The

31:40

five largest New York allays

31:42

a cargo Houston and Philadelphia

31:45

old use American school system

31:47

which gives the mayor much more leverage

31:49

over policies budgets and

31:51

so on in. dallas erik

31:53

johnson does not have that we've

31:55

essentially created essentially structure where

31:58

the city council's functions of the

32:00

What of trustees and,

32:02

the city manager performs as CEO?

32:05

and so the mayor and a countermeasure

32:07

for of government will often be more like

32:10

the chairman of boards and of course

32:12

across corporations sharon very

32:14

in there but amounts of power and influence

32:16

depending on how well they can control their

32:18

board how visionary they are and that

32:20

sort of similar here

32:21

That was a pretty diplomatic description

32:24

of Dallas government by the current mayor.

32:27

Former Mayor Lauren Miller is

32:29

less diplomatic. This is a

32:31

wonderful place to live.

32:33

It's a totally awful city government

32:36

can you expand? please

32:38

were so your homework perhaps

32:40

Yes. Yes, the problem is

32:42

when you have a week mayor

32:44

form of government and then you couple

32:46

that with mostly single

32:48

member district see and fourteen single

32:50

member districts and we have. One person

32:52

elected at large the mayor who has no

32:54

more power than the fourteen

32:56

with single member districts you are

32:58

in completely dysfunctional

33:01

environment where there is zero

33:03

accountability for. Anything that goes?

33:05

Wrong, but you just said, Dallas

33:07

is a great place to live with terrible

33:10

government that suggests

33:12

that may be good city government

33:14

isn't that important to having good

33:16

city.

33:17

Generally if you pick up the trash and pays the streets

33:19

you can be fine but it's really unfortunate

33:22

because half our city is undeveloped

33:25

and low income so if

33:27

we had a strong mayor I really believe

33:29

no matter who it was wouldn't

33:31

even be picky I. think that they

33:33

could make a substantial difference instead of just

33:35

limping along

33:37

Anything reason that the development is not

33:39

happening in the way that you'd like it happened because

33:42

of this week mirror government?

33:44

Well, the problem is the developers

33:46

have the upper hand all the time at City Hall

33:49

and so they come in and they pick

33:51

all the choice places in the city to

33:53

develop and they leave other places that are worse.

34:00

Council manager form of government practiced

34:02

in Dallas does have at least one advantage,

34:04

and recent studies and cities in the U.S.

34:06

with so called week mares are

34:09

more likely to stick to their budgets

34:11

than when there's a strong man. That

34:13

Miller argues that in Dallas at least

34:15

the week Mehr set up has made it hard

34:18

to address big problems. When I was

34:20

first elected mayor, said.

34:21

The number one problem is our housing department

34:23

it's broken so. I got

34:25

McKenzie to come in. The free.

34:28

Then and tell us how we could build affordable

34:30

housing and and. the city manager

34:32

said thank you very much and put it up on a shelf

34:35

and it never happened so the

34:37

huge disconnect in dallas

34:39

is you have one person

34:41

One is elected city wide.

34:45

They have ideas and they're ready

34:47

to go and they can't execute.

34:50

I didn't email almost every day. Erik Johnson,

34:52

the current mayor. This is a constituent saying

34:55

oh the council's doing the wrong saying

34:57

in this city manager ma call me back

34:59

and I'm like oh my god and. Bearing it

35:01

all out there that it's dysfunctional sounds like

35:03

high school, it needs to change in that

35:06

particular instance, who are you blaming more Johnson

35:08

or the city manager? You know, I'd

35:10

blame them both there too strong

35:12

men who are fighting publicly, which is not

35:15

good, but I certainly relate

35:17

to the current mayor who was elected

35:19

from a very vast field of people

35:22

with their visions, let him do the

35:24

vision.

35:27

That on the ground in Dallas.

35:30

The end.

35:32

We returned to the scene of last

35:34

night's pick out. The any Brian Smokehouse?

35:37

We invited column Clark Be economist

35:39

who's been explaining Dallas to us. We

35:42

also arranged to meet the owner, Rent

35:44

harmon

35:45

Read or even I did have a I like

35:47

someone should be in here fall apart harm

35:50

in a speech at you know each other at

35:52

all access. so on economists

35:55

i work at the george w bush institute

35:57

three minutes economic policy program there

36:00

As the new I. i work a lot

36:02

on

36:03

The economic development issues around said he is

36:05

in putting the city and death or

36:07

through that wrote about Dallas and got introduced

36:10

to the size of a rebel.

36:12

Hundreds a barbecue guy her as

36:15

opposed to family business so I went to

36:17

Baylor and on become a degree

36:19

and realized that I don't want to be an accountant

36:21

or viral was are dominant are now and so

36:24

at. the time we had a couple or us started

36:26

at that age will help us out at the restaurant

36:28

and twenty five years later i'm running the company

36:31

was ever the plan but it turned out to be the best pants

36:36

Sony Brian's I have come to learn is

36:38

a Dallas classic dislocation

36:41

opened in Nineteen Fifty Eight.

36:43

Haven't changed much since it was built

36:46

on Farmland the few miles from downtown

36:48

now. this area this area busy

36:51

and still growing hospital disk Late

36:53

last night in the driving rain it.

36:56

was nearly empty today bright

36:58

and sunny it's full of people from

37:00

all over

37:01

Which really powerful but this particular

37:03

as try but in barbecue generally it appeals

37:05

to the masses it's. the oil

37:07

man and that will feel workers sitting side

37:09

by side with the doctor's name was

37:11

drivers was teachers and executives

37:14

in the maybe a limo the polls office

37:16

and the limo drivers gone into get sued for

37:19

Some rich do.

37:21

harmon why he thought Dallas has become

37:23

such a magnet for people moving

37:25

in from Abstain?

37:26

The more really friendly place, some into

37:28

noticeably friendly, I've ever going

37:30

to visit my brother when I was in college

37:33

after three day, those like a debate about

37:35

this is where New York City.

37:38

I'm taken that personally for Philadelphia

37:42

and, what about running a business year how

37:44

does Dallas and Texas to generally

37:46

in terms of you know making it,

37:49

viable for businesses? to open

37:52

to grow to thrive

37:54

because you know new york famous these difficult

37:57

ah yeah i have friends that

37:59

operate busy

38:00

Then. States I hear their stories that can't believe

38:02

where they have to go, to mean example, something that

38:04

they have a hard time with that easier, simple

38:06

things we could do. To sort of modifier business

38:09

that in California, my require

38:11

to permits and for inspections

38:13

and six month waiting period. And

38:15

here you just do it or.

38:18

let's talk about the food here

38:19

Column describe your food that I am having

38:22

the combo played with

38:24

whole chicken pulled pork and setter,

38:27

jalapeno sausage

38:32

Haven't been can barbecue is,

38:34

one of those foods that began

38:36

out of necessity and it's you know cheap as

38:39

the chair of got traded or for then

38:41

it becomes a thing and i'm probably reaching

38:44

here I wondered if there's

38:46

any metaphor between.

38:49

for the barbecue idea

38:51

And Texas or Dallas, which is, you take

38:53

something that's not. The prime

38:55

cut necessarily right and find

38:58

a way that. That off in

39:00

way that makes it.

39:02

Very desirable, I think you're onto something think

39:04

that can be said of. In some sense,

39:06

the whole state, right? Whoever

39:08

is settled here always found it difficult. Native

39:12

populations were very stand here, they do

39:14

not find it very appealing. Empire

39:17

never really did much succeed in getting very many

39:19

people to colonize the place as they couldn't

39:21

hold onto out and then once the Westward expansion

39:23

of United States came here, I'm in it was. Dread

39:26

of ways to be right. Really, really

39:28

hot mosquitoes and you really

39:30

a good salesman for Texas, and yes,

39:32

as you say, they say, figured

39:34

out how to actually make it thing. The

39:37

Texas is the barbecue of states

39:39

well I like your metaphor Dallas. isn't

39:41

on the coast it is not have any navigable reverie

39:43

so it had not had lotta reason to exist is directly

39:46

and dallas was never was huge oil town

39:49

it exists where it says because of

39:51

modern transportation because her first

39:53

they laid they transcontinental railroad They

39:56

chose this of a junction, the

39:58

place really got going because. That.

40:00

That transportation, junction

40:02

as exciting trading entrepreneur like the

40:04

cotton farmers could bring their products here

40:06

and find market for it so titan was there,

40:09

early on it developed. As really the financial

40:12

center of the state see you

40:14

got it banking and insurance and so. forth and

40:16

then what was the real breakthrough the thing that really

40:18

made that city work was

40:21

sacked little bit different than the second the west coast

40:23

you had the semiconductor to Instrument

40:26

with an oilfield services company. Where

40:29

Jack Kilby in few other engineers experimenting?

40:32

With that, you know, integrated circuits

40:34

idea.

40:39

Some story. The town without

40:41

a poor or even big river. Without

40:43

many natural resources.

40:46

Scratching and clawing it's way to what will

40:48

soon be the third largest metro area

40:50

in the United States. Then

40:52

it feels like that a metro area

40:54

more than city which

40:56

is fine. That's not what New

40:58

Yorker like me as you to. We're

41:01

used to walking places may be jumping

41:03

in the subway, popping out at Times

41:05

Square or maybe museum. When

41:08

I mentioned this to column Clark, he

41:10

offered to drive us back down town

41:12

to the Dallas Museum of Art. The

41:15

got in his car and drove back toward

41:17

the city centre, passed a renovated

41:19

version of Parkland Hospital, where John

41:21

Kennedy died in nineteen sixty three.

41:24

Then. We're just now alongside

41:26

Clyde Warren Park and we're basically

41:29

approaching downtown Dallas

41:31

and also approaching the arts

41:33

district Dallas has

41:35

built this really fabulous arts district with

41:38

easy to see, right? In front of us, the Dallas Museum

41:40

of Art and then going that way to

41:42

the East, the Myerson Symphony Hall,

41:45

a relatively new opera house,

41:47

new theatre and all of these.

41:49

Things are enclosed walking distance to each other,

41:51

they made part of Dallas walkable,

41:54

we're becoming more walkable all

41:56

the time and but starting from very low

41:58

base.

42:00

We called ahead and arrange to visit

42:03

with the museum's director Augustine

42:05

or to Yaga, whose originally from Mexico

42:08

he met us at the museum's front door

42:10

as it turned out the museum director

42:13

and the economists know each other.

42:16

Very nice the saga same my sophomore

42:19

year at the same we.

42:21

chatted about or sieber art museums

42:23

in new york the met and moma of

42:25

course freak is whitney guggenheim

42:28

and the new museum

42:30

Somebody wants to see something that they're not

42:32

in New York, you have to come here,

42:35

we have thirteen mondrian in

42:37

their me sam, and it does

42:39

name that in this gallery

42:42

is named after the of the James,

42:44

some Libyan Clark may sound familiar

42:46

to you too. My grandparents

42:48

get outta here.

42:49

Really yeah that

42:52

must be so exciting for you to come

42:54

and see this are my old friends that I grew up with

42:56

in their living. room that

42:58

i was an was an kid all the time That's

43:01

right.

43:02

Helen Clark, mild mannered

43:04

economist, is the grandson

43:07

of art collectors. These paintings

43:09

by Piet Mondrian now hang

43:11

in the Dallas Museum of Art.

43:13

They. Just threw themselves at it and

43:15

they traveled the world and read

43:18

very sensibly and met a lot of living artists

43:20

and dog quite collection of do know anything

43:22

about the. Particular traction to munching on: I

43:24

think that's Mondrian made

43:26

sense to my grandfather, think he was

43:28

have very analytical,

43:31

abstract, elegant sinker, my

43:33

grandfather, and think that, of course. Mondrian

43:35

himself was that the when your

43:37

family's getting ready to make the donation,

43:40

did you grab a few for yourself, I know

43:42

oh other materials that are in the closet, yeah? That

43:44

makes him agassi and know that I,

43:48

know everything. of

43:50

us there are elements of their collection in our

43:52

house today yes gonna have to say own

43:54

a son dallas hills like dallas very small town

43:56

oh it is it is Then

43:59

we. Round corner and come

44:01

across this.

44:03

The her, the same was scared

44:05

of, just came to the collection of heights, so

44:07

stunning to see one hanging

44:10

on a museum, all because it is so

44:12

rare C.S. and I'm in

44:14

very exciting and this was

44:16

local he was here first time right he

44:18

came to visit.

44:20

The michel Basquiat, one of the best

44:22

known painters of the past half century.

44:24

Died at age twenty seven of

44:27

a heroin overdose, his work

44:29

became phenomenally expensive

44:31

and as result most of it is

44:33

owned by private collectors who routinely

44:36

outbid museums.

44:38

If you want to hear more about how that works,

44:40

we recently put out a series called

44:42

the Hidden Side of the Art Market. Anyway,

44:46

it is rare to see major basque

44:48

yacht in museum, and this one called

44:50

Sam'S is beauty.

44:53

The portrait of Dallas art collector

44:56

named Samuel Feldman, painted

44:58

on wooden door.

45:00

He was very interested attracted

45:03

themselves, so welcome that he decided,

45:05

been very energized to fame, so they went

45:07

down the basement on, formed the door, and

45:09

this is the door when he decided to fame.

45:12

them Feldman and his wife, Silda,

45:14

gifted the bus got to the Dallas

45:16

Museum upon their death. them

45:19

died in two thousand and one helga

45:21

just last year, the painting was

45:23

installed of the summer.

45:25

The

45:29

museum is also just opened a special exhibit

45:31

of Ten Van Gogh paintings of olive

45:33

groves in the south of France they.

45:36

were made as part of part series but had never

45:38

before been exhibited as group

45:41

This show was the result of ten

45:43

year project led by the Dallas Museums

45:45

interim chief curator Nicole Myers

45:49

area. over Myers walk

45:51

us through the exhibit.

45:53

I think when the most surprising things for me, it

45:55

was that one of these all of growth paintings

45:57

is pretty much a pendant to the starry

45:59

night. The starry night is, then goes

46:01

best known painting. Then. Manson

46:04

and the same breath in the same letter to

46:06

his brother, Theo, where he announces that

46:08

he has finally study of olive trees

46:10

and study of starry night. One of them,

46:12

as worldwide famous and the other,

46:14

is equally interesting, it really

46:17

accomplish seller painting that's

46:19

less well known today. I'd never heard

46:21

that word the applied in that way pendant many. In.

46:23

A pair for them over to gather the all

46:25

throughout his career, he just has a penchant

46:27

to produce works in decorative ensembles

46:29

or groups weather dependent or appears

46:32

triptych to. Very practical, he knew

46:34

lot of other art market, in fact, prior career,

46:36

he was dealer, so in many ways he

46:38

saw this as an opportunity to place

46:41

artwork. Of his in the homes of upper

46:43

middle class collectors and Harris, maybe

46:45

you couldn't buy series of ten paintings,

46:47

and maybe you could afford to buy triptych from within.

46:50

That series that was always marketing strategy

46:52

from the beginning.

46:53

Okay so this is a terrible question to ask

46:55

you but I'm going to ask it anyway pretend.

46:57

that you had to persuade me that this

46:59

is superior to the starry night

47:03

The guy that I think would lose

47:05

my sister keeps a secure it

47:07

or if they try to use of relatives like that

47:09

for. me was sad thing is that they are quite

47:12

literally day and night they are both paintings

47:14

that have that lot of spiritual symbolism and that

47:16

symbolism aside to the trees so

47:18

in the starry night as giant cypress tree that

47:20

connects earth was guy with the heavens cyprus

47:23

trees in the mediterranean being symbols

47:25

of immortality the olive tree has

47:28

also has deeply spiritual meaning and

47:30

the judeo christian tradition of courses in the garden

47:32

of eden isn't upon the planet plan on as the setting

47:34

for christ in the garden of all have been

47:36

in classical antiquity and in the ancient mediterranean

47:39

rolled mediterranean was symbol of peace and abundance

47:41

that also renewal and rebirth

47:44

because olive trees you can cut them down you

47:46

can burn them and they regenerate from their routes

47:48

they're adapted to thrive and really poor condition

47:51

so they become this symbol of

47:53

life and reemergence You

47:55

can cut those olive trees down my,

47:58

your says. The regenerate. From

48:00

their route.

48:01

That you have to regenerate your roots if

48:04

you move in one place to another, like

48:06

so many people have been doing without. Your

48:09

adapted to thrive in poor conditions.

48:13

Like Dallas itself without many natural

48:15

resources. Then, and like

48:18

a New Yorker, perhaps someone who's thinking

48:20

what it would be like to move to Dallas.

48:23

As it happens, Nicole Myers lived

48:26

in New York for several years, she got her

48:28

Ph.D. in art history at N. Y.

48:30

U. and she worked at the Metropolitan

48:32

Museum. I asked if you had any

48:34

advice for someone who might be thinking

48:37

about moving to Dallas but worried they

48:39

might have a hard time acclimating.

48:41

Think. I would say to not be

48:43

afraid of the unknown, think if

48:45

you've never been to place there could be a lot of assumptions,

48:47

everything from pop culture to politics and. I

48:49

would say withhold judgment until you come,

48:52

these are different languages on the street, all

48:54

throughout the galleries and museums, incredible

48:57

universities, there is something for everyone,

48:59

so would hope. That they would be open to the idea

49:01

and not short change, with they think they might

49:03

know about Dallas, it is a fantastic place

49:05

to live.

49:07

The told my or how Brent Chairman the

49:09

owner of Sunni Bruins smokers and

49:11

talked about the extreme friendliness

49:14

of Dallas and look I

49:16

like friends am friendly

49:18

sometimes but. when you're a stranger

49:21

in stranger strange land how can you trust

49:24

that friendliness how can you learn to believe

49:26

the warps is real

49:29

You. Have to let your guard down, it is actually

49:31

sincere when I first came down in this area,

49:33

you go to even just a convenience

49:36

store and the person behind the counter. Is so nice

49:38

to you that I was there to watch my purse thinking there

49:40

are up to something I'm going to get mugged at the CVS,

49:42

not the case it really? Isn't fear it's a way of

49:44

life and?

49:45

My, you have an appropriate level of cynical

49:47

expenses and come inside zero, see my

49:49

move here, I need you to have to sit over

49:52

my, that's a deal money coming

49:54

will see how the rest of our to her successor

49:56

neighborhoods, okay? The

49:59

to are.

50:00

Then. News next week among

50:02

the questions will ask what,

50:04

if you find the politics in Texas

50:06

texas bit too, ah I'm

50:08

Texan fear taste what's

50:11

happening and sexes is that. Microcosm of what's happening

50:13

in large parts of America also

50:16

is the city of Dallas, really

50:18

why everyone's moving to Dallas with

50:20

already fallen behind the northern suburb, where

50:22

are the companies? Are rarely moving to and

50:25

we go visit those northern suburbs

50:27

where the real growth is. happening there

50:29

are fifteen cities over one hundred

50:31

thousand people in north texas

50:34

to protect the prospective their number of states

50:36

that don't have one or two cities over one hundred thousand

50:38

people freakonomics radio does

50:41

dallas again next week

50:43

until then take care of yourself and

50:45

if you can someone else

50:49

freakonomics Radio is produced by Stitcher and

50:51

Run, but Radio or Email is Radio

50:53

at freakonomics dot.com com This

50:55

episode was produced by Ryan Kelly

50:58

and we had helped this week from Jeremy. Johnson and

51:00

in Dallas from Zurich, see a who

51:02

runs Hello Studios are theft

51:05

also includes Alison Craig, Low Greg Ribbon,

51:07

that Pinsky married to Duke Morgan, Levy

51:09

Rebecca, the Douglas Jasmine. Klinger, Eleanor

51:12

Osborne, immaterial: "We are about it

51:14

and Jacob Clemente, or theme song if

51:16

Mr. Fortune by the hitchhiker's all

51:18

the other music was composed by Louis, scary

51:20

You Can Get" The entire archive of

51:22

freakonomics radio on any podcast app

51:24

if you'd like to read transcript where

51:26

the show notes that the freakonomics.

51:33

I wish we

51:35

had an ocean.

51:37

I wish we had a mountain that

51:39

it would be over game over.

51:58

There's one of the.

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Humphreys have found public universities,

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the University of Florida is on a mission

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to transform education and continue

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to develop breakthroughs that will help grow

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Nationally ranked to we're connection centre, our

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students have never been better for. There to make

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about how the University of Florida fuels

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