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0:58

Hey there, it's Steven Duffy. If you

1:00

watched this past Sunday Super Bowl in which

1:02

the Kansas City Chiefs beat the Philadelphia

1:04

Eagles by kicking field goal with just a few

1:06

seconds left. You may have noticed

1:09

a few things. You may have noticed that

1:11

chief quarterback Patrick Mahomes is just

1:14

an absurdly good and clutch

1:16

performer even when he's hurt. You

1:18

may have noticed the controversial holding

1:20

penalty on the Eagles' defense that gave the

1:23

Chiefs a chance to run out the clock

1:25

before Harrison Butler kicked that

1:27

winning field goal? One

1:29

thing you almost certainly didn't notice

1:32

was the man who snapped the

1:34

ball on that winning kick. His name

1:36

by the way is James Winchester. He

1:38

is the Chiefs long snapper and

1:41

you're not supposed to notice him because we

1:43

only noticed the long snapper when something

1:45

goes

1:46

wrong. As it did in

1:48

last year's Super Bowl.

1:50

Yay. No. Hector picked

1:52

the ball up bad snap. Last

1:55

year, just before that Super Bowl,

1:58

we published an episode about the profession

2:01

of the long snapper. Now,

2:03

we've gone back and updated that episode

2:06

and it includes an interview with the

2:08

allegedly guilty long Napper

2:10

to set the record straight. So you're about

2:12

to hear an updated version of our episode

2:14

called why does the most monotonous

2:16

job in the world? Pay

2:19

one million dollars. Hope you enjoy.

2:32

This is Radio, the

2:34

podcast that explores the hidden side

2:36

of everything with your host,

2:39

Steven Dubner.

2:49

Our story today is about special as station

2:51

in the labor market. Exciting.

2:54

Right? It is about one

2:56

nearly invisible job inside

2:58

a highly visible profession. Let's

3:01

start by asking, what is specialization

3:04

exactly?

3:05

Specialization is one of the things that

3:07

makes us rich. That's Victor

3:09

Mathiesen. I'm a professor of economics

3:12

at the College of Holy

3:13

Cross, I specialize in

3:15

all things sports economics.

3:17

What does mathison mean when he says that specialization

3:20

makes us rich. This goes all the way

3:22

back to Adam Smith. Adam Smith

3:24

said that specialization is the

3:26

royal road to prosperity because

3:29

if people specialize, they

3:31

can really good good at something. Adam

3:33

Smith's famous example was about pin

3:35

making, you know, like straight pins that you put

3:37

in a shirt. And he said,

3:40

look, ten people in a factory

3:42

making pins, not very

3:44

exciting job, but if they can each specialize

3:47

on ten different aspects of how you

3:49

make a pin. A group of ten workers

3:51

in a factory in one day can make

3:53

forty eight thousand pins. That

3:55

means forty eight hundred pins per worker.

3:58

While each of these individual workers, if they

4:00

had to make these pins on their own, they'd

4:03

be lucky to make maybe twenty Victor

4:05

Mathiesen has his own favorite example

4:08

of specialization. I think back

4:10

to the books and the TV series that were on when

4:12

I was a kid, little house on the prairie. And

4:14

paw angles. Everyone was in

4:16

love with paw angles because you're like, oh, this

4:19

guy can do everything. Is there

4:21

anything that paw can't do? And

4:23

it turns out, Paul could do a lot

4:25

of things, but he couldn't do anything

4:27

well. And his family was in

4:29

poverty, essentially their whole life

4:31

living at the edge of existence. You

4:34

know, we talk about the term, this guy is a

4:36

jack of all trades, but the reality

4:38

is being a jack of all trades kinda

4:41

means you're a jackass of all trades. That's

4:43

right. Victor Mathieson just called the

4:45

beloved paringles a jackass,

4:47

but he's an economist. What do you expect?

4:50

Here's how Mathieson describes his own work.

4:53

is the study of the allocation of

4:55

scarce resources across competing

4:58

uses and sports economics focuses

5:00

on anything where we use this in the sports

5:02

world. And of course, that can apply in

5:04

specialty positions like the long snapper.

5:07

The long

5:07

snapper. Do you know what

5:10

long snapper is? Even

5:12

if you are a football fan, you may not.

5:14

And if you aren't a football fan,

5:16

then no. You have heard of the quarterback,

5:19

maybe the wide receiver, line backer,

5:21

but the long snapper. No.

5:23

That is not thing that people care

5:25

about. Today, we're

5:27

gonna make you care. We'll begin

5:30

with Rich McKay. M c

5:32

capital KAYI am the president

5:34

and CEO of the Atlanta Falcon. McCay

5:36

has been around football his whole life.

5:39

His father John was a legendary coach

5:41

with the Tampa Bay Bucking Years in the NFL.

5:44

And before that, at the University of

5:46

Southern California where he won four

5:48

national

5:49

titles. So if you look at the history

5:51

of long snappers, when my dad coached

5:53

at USC and first got into

5:55

the pros, the long snappers were backup

5:58

guards. That's who they were. And they weren't

6:00

great at snapping. And many a game was won

6:02

and lost by a snap going

6:04

the wrong direction.

6:06

Okay. Let's unpack what McKay just

6:09

said on the off chance that you,

6:11

dear listener, are not an aficionado of

6:13

what we Americans call football and

6:15

what the rest of the world calls American football

6:18

since to them, football is what we

6:20

call soccer. And honestly,

6:22

football is a better name four soccer

6:25

since in soccer you do mostly kick

6:27

the ball whereas in American football

6:29

you mostly don't kick the ball.

6:31

You mostly throw it or run with it.

6:34

But here's the twist. The

6:36

story we are telling today does

6:38

concern the rare occasions in

6:40

American football where the ball

6:42

gets kicked. Got it?

6:45

Alright. Here's how American football

6:47

works. Each team has eleven

6:50

guys on the field at a time. The

6:52

team with the ball is on offense,

6:54

and those players include a quarterback,

6:56

receivers, and running back, and

6:58

a bunch of very large men,

7:01

including the guards that Rich McKay

7:03

mentioned, whose primary job is

7:05

to block the defensive players. Another

7:07

of these large men is called the center.

7:10

He's the guy who crouches over the ball

7:12

on every play and snaps it between

7:14

his legs to the quarterback. Speiler

7:17

alert. The center, even though he

7:19

snaps a ball on every offensive play,

7:21

he is not the long snapper.

7:24

Okay? Just store that away.

7:26

The mission of the offense is to

7:29

run and pass the ball down the field

7:31

and get it into the opponent's end zone.

7:33

That's a touchdown. But the team that's

7:35

on defense is of course trying to prevent

7:38

that. The offense and defense

7:40

are essentially like two

7:42

opposing armies in the old days.

7:44

American football is very

7:46

warlike with much brighter

7:49

colors and somewhat fewer casualties. Also

7:51

cheerleaders. Anyway, the

7:54

offense has four plays or

7:56

downs to advance the ball ten

7:58

yards. They get a new first down

8:00

every time they do that, but if they face

8:02

a fourth down, they have to make a decision.

8:05

They can run one more in the hopes

8:07

they get past that ten yard mark.

8:10

But if they fail, then they surrender the

8:12

ball to the other team on that spot

8:14

and the other team brings out their offense.

8:17

What usually happens on fourth down is

8:19

the offense will choose to kick

8:21

the ball. There are two types of kicks.

8:24

If you're a long way your opponent's

8:26

end zone, you will likely punt

8:28

the ball to the other team. A punt

8:30

is a capitulation. It

8:33

means the defense has stopped your offense.

8:36

This means bringing on a specialist called

8:38

a punter who kicks the ball

8:40

very high and very

8:41

far, forty five or fifty yards

8:44

down the field to the other team's punt

8:46

returner.

8:47

But if you've got a fourth down closer

8:49

to your opponent's end zone, you may try

8:51

to kick a field goal. That means

8:53

bringing on a different specialist. This

8:55

one is not a punter. He's a police kicker,

8:58

and the police kicker tries to kick the ball

9:01

through the big yellow uprights at

9:03

the back of the end zone. A field goal

9:05

counts for three points. Not as

9:07

good as a touchdown, which is six points,

9:09

but still very valuable. You'll

9:12

also usually see the place kicker after

9:14

a team scores a touchdown, kicking

9:17

what's called an extra point or a

9:19

BAT point after touchdown, which

9:21

counts for one point. Okay.

9:23

We got that. The unit that executes

9:26

these kicking plays. Is neither an offensive

9:29

nor a defensive team. They are called special

9:31

teams, of which the punter or

9:34

placeholder are most

9:35

critical. Rich McKay again.

9:37

If we were doing this podcast fifteen years

9:40

ago, you would have said to me, hey, who are the specialists

9:42

on the team? And I would have said to you, the punner

9:44

and the kicker. And you would have said, oh, yeah,

9:46

there's two of them. And then today, if you

9:48

say to me, who is a specialist on the team? I say the punner,

9:50

the kicker, and the snapper.

9:54

The long snapper, that is unlike

9:57

pawingles. The long snapper does

9:59

just one thing. He doesn't throw the ball,

10:01

he doesn't run the ball, he doesn't kick the

10:03

ball. He doesn't play offense or defense,

10:06

he doesn't even snap the ball on regular

10:08

offensive plays. All he does

10:10

is snap the ball on punts,

10:12

field goals, and extra points. On

10:15

a punt, he snaps it directly to

10:17

the punter, who stands about fifteen

10:19

yards behind the long snapper.

10:21

The punter catches the ball around chest

10:23

high and kicks it down field.

10:26

Long snapper does now have a chance

10:28

to run downfield and try to tackle

10:30

the punt returner, but since there are

10:32

other players on special teams who are

10:34

much better at running and tackling,

10:37

this rarely happens. On a

10:39

field goal or extra point attempt

10:41

meanwhile, the long snapper snaps

10:43

the ball to the holder, who's usually

10:46

a punter or a backup quarterback.

10:48

The holder is down low, one

10:50

knee on the ground. About eight yards

10:53

behind the snapper. He definitely

10:55

catches the snap and places the ball

10:57

on the ground at a slight angle

10:59

for the kicker to kick the laces

11:02

facing away from the kicker to

11:04

minimize spin. So the long

11:06

snapper will be on the field for maybe

11:08

just eight plays a game out of

11:10

an average of nearly eighty total

11:12

plays run by his team. And

11:14

here's the thing. An NFL team is

11:17

only allowed to have forty eight players

11:19

on its game day roster. And yet,

11:21

every NFL team uses

11:24

one of those valuable roster spots

11:26

for a long snapper. Is

11:28

that really necessary? Is the task

11:31

so difficult? The position so

11:33

specialized?

11:34

That it's worth a roaster spot for just

11:36

that handful of plays? Let's

11:38

do the numbers. Victor Matison

11:40

again. You've got twenty two

11:43

starters, eleven on offense, eleven

11:45

on defense. You can have

11:48

an entire backup crew

11:50

on offense and defense, and that gets

11:52

you to forty four. Add a

11:54

hunter and a kicker that gets you to forty

11:56

six is having a third

11:59

string, right tackle, or seventh

12:01

wide receiver worth more or

12:03

less than having

12:06

a guy you can count on, getting

12:08

that snap perfect every time.

12:10

And what we've seen is pretty much every

12:12

team says, yeah, the marginal

12:14

value of that one

12:16

play all was doing

12:17

well. Is worth that

12:20

few times a game. I wish I had

12:22

some sort of replacement on the defensive

12:24

line. And Rich McKay again.

12:26

The downside is so high, if you

12:28

don't do it accurately, that you're going

12:30

to invest a player position in

12:33

that.

12:33

And we've done it as a league for at

12:35

least fifteen years.

12:37

Okay. Let's consider the downside

12:39

of not having a dedicated long snapper.

12:42

What happens for instance when your

12:44

long snapper gets hurt during a game.

12:47

Now, this doesn't happen often, even though

12:49

football does produce a lot of injuries,

12:51

the long snapper

12:52

is, by nature, a low risk position.

12:55

Still,

12:56

it does happen. Let's go back

12:58

to two thousand and eight.

13:00

A showdown in Pittsburgh. The

13:02

giants and the Steelers.

13:04

In the third quarter of this game, the Steelers

13:06

had to punt the ball away to the

13:08

giants.

13:09

That was a fifty yard kick by

13:12

Mitch Berger

13:13

The announcer Dick Stockton noticed

13:15

something had happened on that punt play.

13:18

Yeah. The long snapper, Greg

13:20

Warren, has shaken up Greg

13:22

Warren, the Steelers long snapper, tore

13:24

his ACL while running down field

13:27

to pursue the punt returner, and he wouldn't

13:29

be back. Midway through the fourth

13:31

quarter, the steelers were deep

13:33

in their own territory and they had to punt

13:35

again. With their regular long

13:38

snapper out They turned

13:40

to James Harrison, one of the team's

13:42

best players, but a linebacker, trained

13:45

not in long snapping, but in

13:47

chasing and tackling offensive players.

13:50

How did Harrison

13:51

do? James Harrison, the

13:54

new long snapper, snapped

13:57

it out of the end zone for a safety,

13:59

and the giants have tied the score at

14:01

fourteen as Greg Warren

14:04

was carded off.

14:07

Harrison had produced what's called

14:09

a botched snap. The ball

14:11

went clear over the punter's

14:13

head, AND THE STEELERS WENT ON TO

14:15

LOSE twenty one:fourteen.

14:17

WHEN PEOPLE TALKED ABOUT THIS GAME COMING IN,

14:19

DO YOU THINK ANYONE TALKED ABOUT A LONG SNapper

14:22

INJURED AND THEN THE BACKUP LONG snapper.

14:24

Snapping it over the head of the punner for a

14:26

safety. I don't think that came into the analysis before

14:28

the game started. Yeah. I don't

14:30

think it did. For

14:32

any coach, tempted to use

14:34

that final roster spot on another

14:37

offensive or defensive player. This

14:40

was the sort of nightmare confirmation

14:43

of the long snappers value.

14:45

But as Rich McKay was saying earlier,

14:47

it didn't used to be this way. Sometimes

14:50

they were

14:50

centers, but they were usually guards.

14:52

They had to be big guys, and they weren't great at

14:54

snapping. Then all of a sudden, somehow the

14:57

tied in got

14:57

in. The tight end is a hybrid

14:59

position on the offense, big enough to

15:01

block the defense, but athletic

15:03

enough to catch some

15:04

passes. They were viewed as being better

15:07

athletes, viewed as having better hands, they

15:09

could throw it back faster because all of a sudden,

15:11

these special teams coaches were back there actually

15:13

timing snaps Nobody timed snaps

15:16

in the sixties and

15:17

seventies. All of a sudden, they were timing snaps

15:20

in the eighties. The reason coaches

15:22

started timing the snaps. Is they

15:24

wanted to get the ball back to the kicker as fast

15:26

as possible to minimize the chance of

15:28

a kick being blocked. Because as soon

15:30

as the long snapper snaps the ball, the

15:33

defense is trying to bulldoze the

15:35

kicking team's big guys and block

15:38

the kick. That is a very

15:40

costly outcome for the kicking team.

15:42

So the speed of the snap

15:44

matters. But as Richard McKay was

15:46

saying, size was also important.

15:49

We had a couple teams. What they were doing

15:51

was they were actually putting two

15:53

players and angling them.

15:56

Okay? So two players angled at

15:59

the long snapper. So picture

16:01

this. You are the long snapper

16:03

bent over the ball about to snap

16:05

it between your legs to the

16:07

kicker while knowing that not

16:09

1, but two very large

16:11

defensive players were about to crush you.

16:13

That long snapper was getting viced

16:16

And when he got viced, he got hit and

16:18

absolutely I don't know if you're allowed

16:20

to say this on the radio. Can you say ass over teacup?

16:23

Anything. He was asked over

16:24

teacup, and then they tried to run right up the middle

16:27

and try to block it. As soon as you looked at

16:29

it, he said that's not right. Rich McKay

16:31

is not just president and CEO

16:33

of the Atlanta falcons. He has also

16:35

been on the NFL's competition committee

16:38

for nearly three decades, most of that time

16:40

as its chairman. One

16:42

role of this committee is to propose

16:44

rule changes to improve the

16:46

game, to make it more entertaining for

16:48

fans, but also safer for players.

16:50

Yep. We start with player health and safety,

16:52

and I don't say it in a way to make you

16:55

guys feel better or think that that's a

16:56

good, you know, tagline or anything else. That's just

16:58

the truth. In recent years, the competition

17:01

committee has adjusted a lot of rules,

17:03

most of them having to do with how a defensive

17:05

player can hit an offensive player.

17:08

You can no longer close line a

17:10

player or use what's called a horse collar

17:12

tackle, hitting above the neck

17:14

is generally discouraged. Quarterbacks

17:17

are particularly well protected. So are

17:19

wide receivers as they are often

17:21

in what is called a defenseless position

17:23

right after they've caught the ball. For

17:25

years, the NFL overlooked

17:28

or played down the danger of

17:30

concussions. McKay

17:32

insists They are working hard now

17:35

to improve player

17:36

safety, especially with technologies

17:38

like the tracking chips implanted

17:40

in player's shoulder pads. We get

17:42

data all the time. We know where

17:44

the injuries are coming from. We know the types of

17:47

plays. We have the engineers that are looking

17:49

at load and capacity and the impact.

17:51

And what about those long snappers getting

17:53

viced as McKay put it? Well,

17:56

that too wound up being addressed by

17:58

the competition committee. In two thousand

18:00

six, a new rule required that

18:02

on field goals and extra points,

18:05

the defensive players couldn't line

18:07

up directly across from the long

18:09

snapper, but had to line up outside

18:11

his shoulder pads. This allowed

18:13

the snapper a split second to get

18:15

upright after snapping the ball and

18:18

to keep himself from going ass over

18:20

tea

18:20

cup. All of a sudden, we

18:22

began to find teams that were going

18:24

after the snapper on punt. And

18:26

so we said, okay, let's extend this to

18:28

the snappers on punts

18:30

too. This rule took hold

18:32

in twenty ten. Now the long

18:34

snapper was protected on punts and

18:36

kicks, at least to some

18:37

degree. So now we've got them lined up

18:39

where they're supposed to be, but then their first step

18:42

was to go for the head

18:45

You know, these are people trying to make a

18:47

difference. We said, no. No. No. This is a defenseless

18:49

platter. So that prompted another

18:52

rule change in twenty thirteen, further

18:54

protecting the long snapper by

18:56

deeming him a defenseless player

18:58

in the immediate aftermath of the

19:00

snap. As with many

19:03

rule changes and this is something you

19:05

often see with government

19:06

policy, there were some

19:08

unintended effects. I don't

19:10

think we designed it where and I know we didn't

19:12

because I was in the room. We didn't design it. We

19:15

said, okay. You know

19:15

what? This will make the snapper two hundred and twenty

19:18

five pounds. And they'll be better cover

19:20

guys. That was never the intent that

19:22

has been one of the outcomes. What McKay

19:24

is describing here is a shift in body

19:26

type for the long snapper position.

19:30

No longer at risk of getting run

19:32

over by defensive linemen, the

19:34

long snapper didn't need to be

19:36

gigantic. Two hundred and

19:38

twenty five pounds isn't small, but

19:40

the average lineman in the NFL weighs

19:43

more than three hundred pounds. And

19:45

when McKay says a smaller long

19:47

snapper will be a better cover guy.

19:49

That means he's more athletic and able

19:51

to run down field faster on a

19:53

punt, to try to tackle the other team's

19:56

punt returner. A three hundred pounder can't

19:58

do that. Coming

20:00

up after the break, we'll hear from

20:02

a long snapper who got out into the league

20:04

before the rule changes. Oh,

20:06

it's a bigger snapper. I mean, I played at

20:09

two seventy five, my first few

20:11

years in the league. I'm Steven Dubner.

20:13

This is Freakonomics we'll be right back.

20:19

Freakonomics radio is sponsored by Ameriprise. How

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today. Okay.

21:32

It's time we hear from an actual long

21:34

snapper. Yeah. So my

21:36

name is Louis Philippe Lardusser. Lardusser

21:39

is a Montreal native who recently retired

21:42

after long snapping sixteen seasons

21:45

for the Dallas

21:45

Cowboys. But even a Cowboys

21:47

fan will not know him by bat name.

21:50

It was Lou. It was Louie.

21:52

It was LP. Captain

21:54

Lu. But, yeah, LP was usually

21:56

the one and I would never even get a last

21:58

name. It was just LP.

22:02

And how was your last name pronounced when it was

22:04

pronounced? So

22:06

when I went to school at

22:07

Berkeley, there was a high school

22:10

coach at a neighboring school.

22:12

He had an exact same LAD0UCUR,

22:16

and he said, you know, Bob Latimore. So I'm just

22:18

gonna do LP Latimore.

22:19

So you are In one

22:21

sense, Louis Philippe Ladeau

22:24

sur from Maurel and in the other

22:26

sense here, LP Ladeau from

22:28

Fort Worth. Same person then. Yeah. Same

22:30

guy. Just wanna make clear in case anybody's trying

22:32

to track you down for unpaid parking tickets.

22:37

So as Louis Philippe was saying,

22:40

he was on the big side for a long snapper,

22:42

around two seventy five pounds. His

22:44

first NFL season was two thousand

22:46

five before the rule changes

22:48

that protected long snapper.

22:50

My first few years in the league, most of the

22:52

time I would just get crushing.

22:54

There's nothing you can do. So he appreciated

22:57

the new rules. Because you're

22:59

not getting whiplashment. Guys just

23:01

bulldozing you and so that helped.

23:04

But then by doing that, you invited

23:07

some snappers that warn us

23:09

big, that couldn't block as well

23:12

to come into this league as well. Rich

23:14

McKay

23:14

again.

23:15

All of a sudden, our rule changes came and here

23:17

come a bunch of different players, but it wasn't

23:19

just the body types that were different.

23:22

As the modern games sped up, the

23:24

demands of the long snapper job

23:27

were also

23:27

evolving. Now they gotta throw the ball back

23:29

there. They gotta throw it faster. They gotta be

23:31

more accurate because the guys are coming off the

23:33

edge fast and they gotta be able to cover

23:36

on the

23:36

punt. And so there is a little

23:38

more to the position than just throwing it

23:40

back there. Other words, the job was becoming

23:43

more specialized. Less

23:45

paringles, jackass evolved

23:47

trades, and more Adam

23:49

Smith, pin factory worker. And

23:52

the specialization of the long

23:54

snapper job led to further

23:56

specialization. In the form of

23:58

the long snapper agent.

24:00

Yeah. I think the niche of representing

24:02

long snappers kind of found me.

24:04

It's Kevin Gold. I am an

24:06

attorney and also an NFL

24:09

agent or what they call a certified contract

24:11

adviser. I've done over a hundred contracts

24:13

for about thirty different guys, the vast majority

24:16

of which are long snappers. As

24:18

gold said, this specialty found

24:20

him. When I came out of law school,

24:22

I wanted to be an NFL agent. Now I'm

24:24

in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and there happen

24:27

to be a player at a small division two

24:29

school called Schippensburg University. And

24:31

he had this unique skill, which

24:33

is he could snap the ball to the punner very

24:36

fast and he could snap it to the holder on field

24:38

goals and extra points. With perfect

24:40

laces so the kicker could do their job.

24:42

So he became my first client.

24:44

And

24:44

honestly, I didn't know much about the position.

24:46

I didn't even know that NFL teams really use

24:49

guys just to do this role. Not

24:51

only had NFL teams started using

24:53

guys just for that role, but occasionally, they

24:55

would spend one of their valuable college

24:58

draft picks to select a player

25:00

who wasn't a quarterback or a linebacker

25:02

but a long snapper. Patrick

25:05

Manley, who's one of the first pure snappers

25:07

to be drafted just to snap by the bears

25:09

back in the late nineties. Patrick Manley

25:11

played sixteen seasons for the bears

25:13

without a single botched snap.

25:16

If you ever find yourself in a situation

25:19

where you need to prove that you understand the

25:21

art of the long snap. Just

25:23

in tone those two words, Patrick

25:26

Manley. The award for

25:28

the best collegiate long snapper

25:31

is called the Patrick Manley Award.

25:33

There is no award for best NFL

25:35

long snapper, at least not yet. Following

25:38

Patrick Manley's success in the NFL,

25:41

it is now common for one or

25:43

two teams each year to use a

25:45

draft pick on a long snapper.

25:48

Kevin Gold says NFL teams

25:50

have fully bought in to the value

25:52

of the position.

25:54

Games got to be so close and often decided

25:56

by an extra point or three points, the

25:58

teams decided if I have one guy

26:00

and this their sole job. And if they could do

26:02

it hundred percent accurately, I'm gonna

26:04

dedicate a roster spot. So you're talking

26:06

about a player who's gonna play eight to ten plays

26:08

a

26:08

game. But you're buying peace

26:10

of mind. And there was one more

26:12

consequence of the specialization of

26:14

the long snapper position. The entire

26:17

kicking game is just so much better

26:19

today than we've seen in the

26:21

past. That again is the economist,

26:23

Victor Matheson. Today, about

26:26

eighty to eighty five percent of field goals

26:28

are made. That's way up from

26:31

the old days when you just took anyone

26:33

you wandered off the roster and made him a long

26:35

snapper. That's in part because

26:37

of specialization of the kicker himself,

26:39

but it's also the fact that the entire kicking

26:42

game is much more practiced

26:44

and much more efficient now. Now you may

26:47

be thinking Victor Matheson is

26:49

a bright guy for sure, but he's also a sports

26:51

economist. Not a hundred

26:54

percent convinced he's right. I'd like to hear from

26:56

someone closer to the

26:57

game. I

26:58

have a question at the little out of that field.

27:00

At a twenty twenty one press conference,

27:02

The Boston Globe football reporter, Ben

27:05

Volan, had a question for Bill

27:07

Bellachic, head coach of the New England

27:09

Patriots. As long as that being

27:11

that difficult that you need to use

27:13

a roster on one player, who

27:15

does only

27:16

that, can't you just cross train a few guys to

27:18

do long snapping and they have more flexibility to kinda

27:20

roster spot. Bellachik is widely

27:22

considered the best coach in NFL

27:25

his as well as an historian

27:27

of the game. He is also

27:29

famous for hating press

27:31

conferences. He will dismiss

27:33

a particularly ill informed question with

27:35

a grunt, a scowl,

27:38

or maybe one syllable. But

27:40

in this case, the question of whether

27:43

a long snapper is worth a roster

27:45

spot.

27:46

Bellachic spoke for nearly ten

27:48

minutes. It's an

27:49

interesting conversation and one that's really

27:52

traveled that long and winding road

27:54

from when I came into the league. And that whole

27:57

unit has really evolved into

27:59

specified snapper, specified kicker,

28:02

a specific punner, and

28:04

generally the partner as the whole, so the three

28:07

of those guys could work together all practice because they're

28:09

all

28:09

available. Bellatrix also happens

28:11

to have graduated from Wesleyan with an

28:13

economics degree. What he's describing

28:15

here is what an economist might think

28:17

of as a positive externality of

28:20

specialization. In this case, each

28:23

specialized player in the kicking

28:25

game can make the others better

28:27

because they have more opportunity to practice

28:30

together. Going back when I first came

28:32

into Lee, he worked on field goals

28:34

and it was maybe five minutes

28:36

because that was the only time the starting center

28:38

and backup quarterback were

28:40

available to practice that. And

28:43

the accuracy of the place

28:45

kickers, which has gone up dramatically, part

28:47

of that's the surface. Part of that's not kicking

28:49

outdoors. Part of it is the operation

28:52

between the snapper, the holder, and

28:54

the kicker. If you go back and you see balls

28:56

rolling back and the holder coming

28:58

out of a stance that catch the ball and the kind of things

29:00

you see, you know, at times in a high school game,

29:03

there's just a much higher level skill

29:05

on which there should be in the national

29:07

football

29:07

league. So it's a really good question

29:09

and it's a good

29:10

answer by coach bell check.

29:12

That again is Rich McKay.

29:14

Go back and forget the snapper for a second.

29:16

The kicker became specialized first,

29:19

then the punner. Remember that the punner

29:21

in the fifties was not a punner.

29:23

He played another position, always. You

29:26

would have many a game where there would be three

29:28

or four really bad puns. And

29:30

the reason was that player was actually playing in

29:32

the game. Got beat up little bit,

29:34

hadn't practiced all week doing it, and all

29:36

of a sudden, he's gotta make something happen.

29:38

So kickers first Hunter second

29:41

Snapper's third. And special teams

29:43

got better every time one of those became

29:45

specialized because coach Balczyk did nail

29:47

it on the head. That little trios

29:49

over there. I'm not sure who those guys are because they're always

29:51

hanging out together. It's snap, whole

29:53

kick, and they practice it every day. And

29:56

that's why you don't see the errors in it very

29:58

often.

30:01

It's immensely important. And that

30:03

is Reid Ferguson, the current

30:05

long snapper for the Buffalo Bills.

30:07

The fact that we can basically spend

30:10

you know, I'll take just a normal Thursday practice,

30:12

for example. We're out there for

30:14

an hour and a half, two hours of practice. Basically,

30:17

together for the whole time either

30:20

warming up and practicing

30:22

for a Frugal period or a punt

30:24

period or were on the side

30:26

talking through how the period went,

30:28

things we can work on. It's just a

30:30

constant never ending

30:32

form of self

30:33

improvement, if you will, I

30:35

mean, it's thousands of hours

30:37

of practice is really what it

30:39

comes down to. Do you feel

30:41

underappreciated considering how

30:43

hard it is to be that consistently

30:45

good. When you accept this lifestyle

30:49

and this position, you have to fall in

30:51

love with the monotony of

30:53

the job. You have to.

30:55

You have to fall in love with

30:58

chasing that perfect snap.

31:02

You have to fall in love with chasing

31:04

the perfect snap. With

31:06

the monotony of the job.

31:09

You have to accept the long snapper

31:11

lifestyle. Who knew it was

31:13

a

31:13

lifestyle? At the very

31:15

least, the job does require

31:18

a certain humility. No one knows his

31:20

name. No one wants to know his name. No one

31:22

should know his name except for his girlfriend and

31:24

his mom and dad. That's Chris

31:26

Rubio. They would just wanna get that job done.

31:28

And that's what the coaches want. They just want basically

31:31

a Honda Accord. It's not the flashiest.

31:33

But you know what? Damp thing is gonna go for three hundred

31:36

thousand miles and it's gonna keep on running

31:37

forever. Chris Rubio is a well,

31:40

it's hard to describe. I'm kind of

31:43

like a private football coach,

31:45

but a private coach who coaches

31:47

only long

31:49

snappers. Not in

31:51

NFL or even in college. I

31:53

would

31:53

say I'm kind of like the middleman. If you

31:55

were to render the long snapper industrial

31:58

complex, as a supply and demand

32:00

chart. Chris Rubio would

32:02

indeed be right in the middle of it.

32:05

Here is how he explains his job to a

32:07

stranger. I'll say, okay, do you know anything

32:09

about football? You know the guy that kicks

32:11

the ball or punch the ball? And they'll

32:13

go, yeah, yeah, I know that guy that kick are the punner.

32:16

I teach the guys who snap the

32:18

ball to those people. So you

32:20

probably don't know anyone that I know,

32:22

and all you've ever seen of a long snapper,

32:24

that's people that I

32:25

teach, is their but. And if you hear their

32:27

name, they're doing terrible. Rubio

32:29

was himself a long snapper in college

32:31

at UCLA. Like many

32:33

people who play the

32:34

position, he didn't set out to do so.

32:37

I get to high school and a coach goes, alright,

32:39

review what position do you wanna play? This was in

32:41

California in the early nineteen nineties.

32:43

And I'm super naive and

32:45

I go quarterback

32:46

obviously. And he looks at,

32:48

you know, six foot two hundred fifty pounds. So this is not

32:50

a good looking two hundred fifty pounds this point.

32:53

Because Rubio, you'll never touch

32:55

the football

32:55

again. But it turned out that Rubio, while

32:57

not quarterback material, was very

33:00

good at long snapping, a

33:02

position that sometimes called upside

33:04

down quarterback because you have to throw

33:06

the ball fast and accurately backwards

33:09

in a perfect spiral while hanging,

33:12

crouched over the ball, head down, but

33:15

in the air. Rubio long

33:17

snapped through most of high school and

33:19

for three seasons at UCLA, where

33:21

he never botched a snap. And

33:23

I've been doing really well and I go up to Terry

33:25

Don

33:26

Hu. He's chewing his little denting gum

33:28

and he's got his ray bans on. I said coach.

33:30

And he kind of looks at me. Yes,

33:32

Rubio. Said coach down here,

33:34

I I don't know how I'm doing. You don't ever talk

33:36

to me. Nick takes off his rate

33:39

bands, stops chewing, is gonna be his Rubio?

33:41

If the head coach never speaks to

33:43

the long snapper, the long snapper is doing

33:45

perfect. And we literally never

33:47

spoke again until I graduated. And

33:49

were you okay with

33:50

that? Hell, yeah. As long as I

33:52

know what the criteria is, I'm

33:54

fine with

33:55

that. Rubio hoped to long

33:57

snap in the NFL, but it didn't work

33:59

out.

33:59

Yes. I had a couple teams looking at me, but in

34:01

between my junior and senior year, I damaged

34:03

my back pretty darn well. Rubio

34:06

played before the rule changes

34:08

in both the NFL and college football

34:11

that were put in place to protect long

34:13

sapper, which meant he was routinely getting

34:16

viced.

34:16

They would literally just get the biggest, and greatest, meanest

34:19

human being on the defense. And they would line

34:21

up and just destroy you before you

34:23

even get your head up. Rubio earns his

34:25

living these days with a company called Rubio

34:28

Longsnapping. He is essentially

34:30

the master of a long snapping network.

34:33

He maintains this network by conducting

34:35

training camps. For long snappers

34:37

and would be long snappers. I've been

34:39

in Florida, the state of

34:41

Washington, California, Texas,

34:44

in North Carolina and Georgia than Illinois.

34:47

Two big Vegas events and then longs numbers

34:49

come to me. I instruct them. I rank

34:51

them. I give them personal player profile. Website,

34:53

YouTube videos, all that good stuff. And then the

34:55

coaches used my rankings for recruiting.

34:58

So in Alabama coach or UCLA

35:00

coach, Go contact me Rubio. I need

35:02

another kid. Here's what I'm looking for. They have

35:04

to trust me and I have to be able

35:06

to be trusted. Rubio estimates

35:09

he has trained more than a thousand long

35:11

snappers who went on to play in college,

35:13

some of whom also went to the NFL.

35:16

College coaches want a good long snapper,

35:18

but they also don't want to spend much time

35:20

finding 1. And they may not know much

35:22

about long snapping anyways. So they're

35:24

happy to rely on Rubio's rankings.

35:27

So what does Rubio look for in

35:29

a long

35:30

snapper? Number one, a big head.

35:32

I'm talking physically the larger

35:34

a human being's head, the better long snapper

35:36

they're gonna be. Second, the

35:39

bigger the butt, better long snapper they're

35:41

gonna be. That has to do with power. Longer

35:43

arms, that help, and the fourth and

35:45

usually the most crucial part, the

35:48

dumber, a long snapper, the better. Because

35:51

why? Because the smarter long snappers

35:54

overthink everything. And it's

35:56

not hard. We're bending over throwing

35:58

a dead animal really fast backwards. So

36:01

when they're in the middle of a pressure filled situation,

36:04

it's just muscle memory. It's

36:05

simple. Describe 1 your training camps.

36:07

And just so I understand, it's only

36:10

long snapping going on. There's no other

36:12

football

36:12

happening?

36:13

God, no. I don't have that much time. Are

36:15

you kidding? I barely can cut down what

36:17

I'm talking about to the five hours.

36:20

But if I'm a stranger and I just wander

36:22

into this long snapping

36:24

camp,

36:24

you'd be so confused because you

36:26

see fifty kids all bent over snapping.

36:28

Even if you knew football, you'd be like

36:31

no way this dude's running a long snapping

36:33

camp. And if you didn't know football, you'd be like,

36:35

what the hell's happening here? These are high

36:37

school players you're working with. Correct? It actually

36:39

started as high school and now more and

36:41

more and more, I'm starting to get middle school

36:43

and even elementary school kids. Get out

36:45

of here. It's actually pretty smart because

36:48

it's one of those weird positions that you can

36:50

work on and not be a giant or physically

36:52

massive or strong. What I always say

36:54

is if I can get these kids pre puberty, and

36:57

I can get their form down because that's

36:59

the most important thing with snapping as their form. If I

37:01

can get that down and then puberty comes, it's

37:03

basically just dropping an engine into the car.

37:06

And then it's

37:06

like, oh my gosh, I've got this fantastic

37:09

form. And now look at I've got a v twelve engine.

37:11

I

37:14

always tell high school students learned a long snap

37:16

because number 1, it could get you a college scholarship.

37:19

That again is Kevin Gold, the agent

37:21

who represents NFL long snappers.

37:23

Because Alabama and LSU will give

37:25

scholarships to long snappers. And

37:28

if you can snap 234

37:30

years in college at a top level,

37:32

Then you have a good chance to to either be drafted

37:34

by the NFL or get a shot after the

37:36

draft through what we call an undrafted free

37:38

agent. The trajectory gold just

37:40

described, is the precise trajectory

37:43

followed by someone we met earlier? Reed

37:46

Ferguson, Long Snapper for the Buffalo

37:48

Bills? Coming

37:51

up after the break, we get to know

37:53

Reid

37:53

Ferguson. I'm Steven Dubner. This is Freakonomics

37:56

Radio. We'll be right back. Bed

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39:03

When Reid Ferguson was in high school in

39:05

Georgia, he attended several of Chris

39:07

Rubio's long snapping camps.

39:09

Yeah. So he ran Alabama,

39:11

Elashoe, Tennessee, Oregon,

39:14

and maybe handful of others. He really

39:16

started the process of training guys

39:18

and planting them at colleges and having coaches

39:20

actually reach out. He was the guy

39:23

who special teams coaches in the n c double

39:25

a called to recruit a snapper.

39:27

Hey, I'm looking for a big guy. Hey, I'm looking

39:29

for a smaller, faster guy. And he

39:31

said, okay. Well, this guy is four star

39:34

snapper. This guy is a three star snapper.

39:36

He's way more athletic, but he's not as good

39:38

a

39:38

snapper. Reed Ferguson was

39:40

a five star snapper in Chris Rubio's

39:43

rating system. Here's the letter that Rubio

39:45

wrote to college coaches on Ferguson's behalf

39:48

before his senior season in high school.

39:50

1 of the most dominant long snappers

39:52

I've ever had with me. He has exceptional

39:55

form and his body is perfect. For

39:57

division one long snapping and beyond,

40:00

moves well and he is thick.

40:02

When he snaps, people notice terrific

40:05

work ethic. Reed Ferguson

40:07

wound up going to LSU, Louisiana State

40:09

University, one of the top teams

40:12

in college football. By then,

40:14

his younger brother Blake was also

40:16

snapping in Chris Rubio's camps.

40:19

My brother started when he was in seventh grade.

40:21

And a few years later, when Reed

40:23

Ferguson was done at LSU and was

40:25

trying to catch on with an NFL team,

40:28

Blake Ferguson replaced his brother

40:30

as the Long Snapper at LSU.

40:34

Was it a scholarship for you or your

40:36

brother? Yes. Both of us full

40:38

ride? Yes.

40:40

For a long snapper. Yes, sir.

40:45

Blake Ferguson also made it to

40:47

the NFL as a twenty twenty draft

40:49

pick by the Miami Dolphins.

40:51

The Dolphins play in the AFC East

40:53

division of the NFL, same as the Buffalo

40:56

Bills. So fifty percent of the long

40:58

snappers in the AFC East are

41:00

Ferguson's who trained with Chris

41:02

Rubio and graduated from LSU

41:05

on a full scholarship. You can see

41:07

why young football players and especially

41:09

their parents would be willing to

41:11

travel to and pay for Chris

41:13

Rubio's long snapping camps. Not

41:16

just for the instruction, but for the

41:18

chance to be promoted by an expert

41:20

with top tier connections to

41:22

the college and professional long snapping

41:25

network. This network,

41:27

by the way, happens to be overwhelmingly

41:30

white. Around sixty percent

41:33

of the NFL's players are

41:35

black. Black long snappers however

41:37

are practically

41:38

nonexistent. Chris Rubio again.

41:41

I have a couple black long snaps. I

41:43

don't know why there aren't more.

41:45

I really don't. It just seems to be

41:47

one of those positions. I have no idea why.

41:49

And Rich McKay of

41:51

Atlanta falcons? No. It's a good

41:54

question, and I wouldn't have known that until you said

41:56

that. I couldn't even venture a reason

41:58

And here again is the long snapper

42:00

agent, Kevin Gold. The interesting

42:03

thing is my very first client, Rob Davis,

42:05

is an African American long snapper, and

42:07

one to the last Ed Perry used to snap

42:09

for the Miami dolphins, and then African

42:11

Americans kinda disappeared. And I'm not

42:14

sure that there's a reason. A lot

42:16

of times, players snap because they

42:18

can't do anything else. No offense on the football

42:20

field, so it becomes a position of default.

42:23

So it's possible that it doesn't necessarily

42:25

attract African American Snappers.

42:31

As occupations go, Long

42:33

snapping is about as reliable as

42:35

it gets in professional sports.

42:38

It's the oldest average position in the NFL.

42:41

That again is the sports

42:42

economist, Victor Matheson. The

42:44

average long snapper has lasted six

42:46

years in the league. That's significantly more than

42:49

an average NFL player who has about

42:51

a three year

42:51

career. Long snapping is also,

42:53

on average, the lowest paid position in

42:55

the NFL, although lowest paid

42:58

is relative. Most long

43:00

snappers earn the league minimum, which

43:02

this past season was seven hundred and

43:04

five thousand dollars a year for rookie

43:06

with escalations for every additional year

43:08

of service. Read Ferguson, for instance,

43:10

who just completed his sixth full time

43:12

season, earns more than a million dollars

43:14

a year. Yeah.

43:15

1213, something like that. You're on it.

43:17

Let's say, I came down from some other

43:19

universe, and I didn't know much about the

43:22

economy or sports or whatnot. And I

43:24

hear, you know, a teacher gets paid fifty

43:26

thousand dollars police officer maybe sixty

43:28

thousand. And then the long snapper

43:30

for the Buffalo Bills gets one point three million

43:33

dollars. But, you know, there's

43:35

supply and demand So do

43:37

you think that you, in the

43:39

whole ecosystem of professional sports in

43:41

the

43:41

NFL, do you think that you as long

43:43

snapper are overpaid, underpaid, or

43:45

paid just right? That's a great

43:48

question. In our ecosystem, guys,

43:50

reset the market every couple

43:53

of years or every year maybe. So I

43:55

think in our long snapping

43:57

ecosystem, nobody's

43:59

really gonna break the

44:00

bank. It's really just you know,

44:02

rising tide lifts all boats.

44:04

What would you be doing if you weren't playing in the

44:06

NFL now? I originally wanted to be an

44:08

FBI agent that was plan b for

44:10

a long time. But at this

44:12

point, I feel like I've saved up enough

44:14

money to where I kinda don't have to worry about finding

44:16

something immediately. Ferguson may

44:18

have several more good earning years

44:21

ahead of

44:21

him. My internal goal is

44:23

to set the most consecutive

44:26

games played a for

44:28

snapper and or b

44:30

for the Buffalo Bills. So, you

44:32

know, fifteen, sixteen years, if that's what

44:34

it takes me to get

44:35

there, I'd love to play as long as

44:37

I can keep the job. You may recall

44:39

that LP Lattisser, AKA,

44:41

Louis Philippe Lardusser, kept

44:44

his job with the cowboys for

44:46

sixteen seasons, how is this

44:48

longevity possible in such a

44:50

physical game? For one

44:52

thing, long snapper is a

44:54

relatively safe position, especially

44:56

with the protective rules the NFL added

44:58

some years back. You just don't have

45:00

as much opportunity to get hurt as someone who's

45:03

running with the ball or trying to tackle the

45:05

ball carrier. But Victor Mathieson

45:07

says, there is another reason. He says,

45:10

Teams don't have much incentive to

45:12

bring in a new long snapper very

45:14

often, especially because they are

45:16

relatively low earners. 1 you

45:19

have a player that you can trust, it's hard to break

45:21

into that market, especially because

45:23

this is a market that people generally

45:25

do the job perfectly until

45:28

they

45:28

don't. And because so few mistakes

45:30

are made, that doesn't leave a whole lot of openings

45:32

for people trying to break in. In

45:35

other words, once along snapper has

45:37

mastered the technique, he becomes

45:40

increasingly valuable to the team.

45:42

His skills don't deteriorate year

45:44

year as much as a player who relies

45:47

on running fast, throwing far,

45:49

or hitting hard. All the long

45:51

snapper does is bend over and

45:53

snap the ball. Hard can that be?

45:56

And because of the hyper specialization

45:59

that Victor Mathieson and Bill Bellatick

46:01

talked about earlier, the long snapper

46:03

has a lot of time to keep mastering

46:06

his technique to fine tune

46:08

the details. Chris Rubio

46:10

again. You know, how fast is their snap

46:12

going? Does it look

46:13

smooth? Is the spiral going well?

46:16

And Reid Ferguson? For a pot,

46:18

I need to make sure I hit him in a

46:21

certain window So he knows

46:23

every time he goes out there for a punt, this

46:25

snap is gonna be in this general area,

46:27

so that's one less thing that he's gotta think about.

46:30

I call it the Rubio

46:31

Zone, basically the lowest rib to mid thigh,

46:33

armpit to armpit. The punt is more of

46:35

a caveman type snap where I say don't snap

46:37

it to the punter, snap it through

46:39

him. But it's different for a field

46:41

goal or PAT where you're snapping

46:43

to the holder who's just eight yards away.

46:46

The PAT is a little bit more finesse

46:48

where you don't wanna burn it at

46:49

him. So then

46:50

you're just basically flicking it back with your arms?

46:52

Correct. The most important thing would

46:54

be to make sure the laces are correct

46:56

every time because if they're faced

46:59

back at the kicker, you know, that affects

47:01

the kick. I wanted to be accurate with

47:03

my laces. And LP Lattisser.

47:06

That means when the ball hits the

47:08

holder, the laces are already facing forwards.

47:10

All the holder has to do is put the ball down at the

47:12

spot.

47:12

Can you explain that? Because I to me

47:15

that sounds impossible at eight

47:17

yards. Do you know how exactly how many

47:19

rotations it takes to get to the holder's

47:21

hand? And so the way you place your hand

47:23

on the

47:23

ball, you have always exact same rotation

47:25

that lands into the holder's hand. That means

47:27

you also need to be exactly

47:30

consistent from snap to snap, velocity,

47:32

etcetera.

47:33

Correct. So we always be the same target,

47:35

same

47:35

velocity, same follow through. You gotta release the

47:37

ball the exact same spot every time between your legs.

47:40

And does that mean that different long snappers

47:42

have slightly different techniques.

47:44

Correct. I always put my right hand on the laces

47:46

just like I throw a football. There's some log

47:48

snappers out there that have to put their right hand

47:50

on one of the leather panels. And then, you know,

47:52

I always played with distances, so

47:55

I knew if it was cold, that ball wouldn't rotate

47:57

as much. I can move the ball up and back

47:59

out of my stance to have, like, instead of, like,

48:01

exactly eight yards, I'd be, like, at seven and three

48:03

quarters. I've been playing a long time and

48:05

there's ways to move the line of scrimmage

48:07

come on now.

48:10

What you're saying really is that the long snapper

48:12

is the most vital member of any football

48:14

team. I wish it was so. No.

48:17

We're there to make sure that

48:19

the kicker has the cleanest operation

48:22

possible so he can do his job. Okay.

48:25

I understand why special

48:27

teams are important. I understand long

48:30

snapping is sort of an art form, but still

48:32

I come back to the question, is

48:34

it really worth a roster spot?

48:37

Couldn't Another player also

48:39

learned to be perfect at long snapping,

48:41

a player who can, you know, also

48:43

play an offensive or defensive position.

48:46

Well, I realize I'm

48:48

asking you to disavow your entire

48:50

livelihood, but Yeah. I mean, that's a

48:53

great question. You know, the punt snap

48:55

at fifteen yards is not a natural

48:58

snap for, I guess, a center. The longest

49:00

snap, a center will do is a shotgun snap at

49:02

maybe five yards. They feel

49:04

go, you know, what's timing? You

49:06

know, we're, you know, it's a good

49:09

question. I wouldn't have had job if it went for

49:11

a specialization of long snappy.

49:15

I promised at the start of this episode that

49:18

we would make you care about a football position

49:20

you probably didn't even know about. I

49:22

hope we succeeded. If not,

49:24

maybe it'll help you think about specialization

49:27

in some other labor market, maybe your own.

49:30

It happens in pretty much every

49:32

corner of the economy. A

49:34

new technology comes along, smartphone

49:36

for instance, and we immediately worry about

49:39

all the jobs and functions it's

49:41

replacing, which is worth thinking

49:43

about for sure. But over time,

49:45

we see all the new jobs and functions

49:47

this technology makes possible. Jobs,

49:50

we couldn't have imagined would even exist.

49:53

Who gets your vote for the long

49:55

snapper of the smartphone icon?

49:57

Me. Like

49:59

I said at the top of this episode, if

50:01

you watched this year's Super Bowl, you

50:03

didn't notice the long snapper. But

50:06

last year, right after we published this

50:08

episode, there was an incident

50:10

in the Super Bowl where the Los Angeles

50:12

Rams beat the Cincinnati BANKles.

50:15

In the second quarter of the game, the Rams

50:17

scored a touchdown to go up by ten points

50:19

and they brought on their kicking team to go

50:21

for the extra point in order to go up

50:23

by eleven points. The place

50:25

kicker was Matt Day. The holder

50:27

is also the team's punter with Johnny

50:29

Hecker and the long snapper was

50:32

Matthew Orzak. Last

50:34

year, in the NFL, the success rate

50:36

on extra points was just under

50:38

ninety four percent. But

50:41

not this one. Here is announcer

50:44

Al Michaels. Yay.

50:46

No. Hector touched the ball

50:48

of bets snap. Bad

50:50

snap. Where was it?

50:53

Something went wrong for sure. Matt

50:55

Gay never even got his foot on the ball,

50:57

so the Rams failed to score the extra

50:59

point, but was it really the snapper's

51:02

fault?

51:03

We called back Chris Rubio for his

51:05

take. It was not a bad snap. It

51:07

was maybe two inches off.

51:09

It was a little low, a little inside,

51:11

but it was easily catchable. If

51:14

this long snapper is not perfect,

51:16

immediately 1 jumps on, oh god,

51:18

bad snap. I was watching the clip of it yesterday

51:20

and even the announcer, oh, bad snap. You

51:22

know, how they and the NFL games, they always let's

51:25

go to John in New York, who's the referee

51:27

that's reevaluating the call. I want

51:29

them to

51:29

say, let's go to Rubio. What does he say? And I'll be like,

51:31

hell, no. It was not a bad that manner yet. And

51:33

it's right there. The damn holder should have caught it.

51:35

So that's what our long snapping expert

51:38

thinks, but you may be thinking, well, of course,

51:40

the long snapping expert is gonna defend

51:42

the long

51:43

snapper. So we went right

51:45

to the source. Matthew Orzeck, and

51:47

I'm a NFL

51:48

long snapper for the Los Angeles Rams.

51:50

And

51:51

how does Aurizek describe what happened on that missed

51:53

extra point? That's that wasn't

51:55

perfect by my standards and the operation

51:57

starts with me. So I kind

51:59

of hang my hat and responsibility on

52:01

me and where most people would look at Johnny and say,

52:04

I was a perfect snap. He just dropped it.

52:06

But my laces weren't perfectly

52:08

up, and I didn't maybe even spin it

52:10

too many times that

52:11

season. So he actually wasn't that used

52:13

to catching it with the laces off and

52:15

having to spin it. This goes back to

52:17

what Reed Ferguson and LP Lattisser

52:20

told us

52:20

earlier. Really the relationship between

52:23

the snapper and the holder is vitally getting

52:25

laces. If you snap the same

52:27

speed rotation and hit the

52:29

same general location when you throw

52:31

it, it should have the same amount of rotations each

52:34

time. So the holder can catch

52:36

the ball with the laces facing

52:38

the goalposts. And so he just

52:40

has to put it down and hit the spot rather

52:43

than if the laces aren't perfectly

52:45

at twelve o'clock as we call him. He

52:47

has to try to spin them to get them to that

52:49

point. Honestly, I got over that

52:51

ball and I said, alright, you're a little excited.

52:54

Let's try to calm down a little bit and

52:56

relax, and then I overrelaxed and

52:58

snapped it a little bit slower

53:00

and didn't rotate as fast. So

53:02

under rotated, In the end,

53:05

the Mist extra point didn't really

53:07

matter. The Rams won the game

53:09

by three

53:09

points. So proud to have been

53:11

on that team in the right place right time because

53:14

as a snapper your role in getting

53:16

to the Super Bowl is pretty limited.

53:18

It's just don't mess up your job all season

53:20

and you you did your part. So I

53:22

was just honored to be on that team with those guys

53:24

and to be able to share that for the rest

53:26

of our lives, really.

53:30

That's it for our show today. Thanks

53:32

to all our long snapping experts

53:35

for their insight. Coming up next time

53:37

on Freakonomics Radio. The first episode

53:39

in a series about an industry many

53:41

people absolutely love to

53:44

hate.

53:45

I hate flying. I hate

53:47

flying. Jet lag sucks

53:50

being stuck in a tiny seat sucks.

53:52

So we've been on hold for an hour and a half just

53:54

to hear you say that. There's nothing that you can

53:56

do at all.

53:57

Our luggage didn't make it on that

53:59

tight connection. Does airline travel

54:02

deserve the hate it receives?

54:05

We're gonna spend a few episodes trying

54:07

to answer that question. And many

54:09

other questions we have about air

54:11

travel.

54:12

I say the most difficult part is dealing

54:14

with our political polluters.

54:16

We're already going into lockdown. And

54:19

he said, Sarah, we got a problem. I said, I know.

54:22

I had a smoke and fumes emergency

54:24

when I was departing Guam. And when you

54:26

have an internal fire,

54:28

you have not a lot of time.

54:31

That's next time on the show. Until then,

54:33

take care of

54:33

yourself, and if you can, someone else

54:36

too.

54:39

Freakonomics is produced by Stitcher

54:41

and Renbud Radio. You can find our

54:43

entire archive on any podcast app

54:45

or at Freakonomics dot com, where

54:47

we also published transcripts and show

54:49

notes. This episode was produced

54:51

by Ryan Kelly, an mixed by Greg

54:53

Ripon with help from Jeremy Johnston. Our

54:56

staff also includes Zach Lipinski, Morgan

54:58

Levy, Catherine Mancur, Alina Coleman,

55:00

Rebecca Lee Douglas, Julie Canford, Elinor

55:03

Osborn, Jasmine Klinger, Daria Kleenert,

55:05

Ematorel, Lyric Boudic, and Elsa

55:07

Fernandez. The Freakonomics Radio

55:09

Network's executive team is Neil Karuth,

55:12

Gabriel Roth, and me, Stephen Dubner.

55:14

Our theme song is mister Fortune by the

55:16

hitchhikers. All the other music is

55:18

composed by Luis Guerra. As

55:21

always, thanks for listening. What

55:32

did I not ask you that I should ever? Is there anything

55:34

else about the role that I should

55:36

know?

55:38

No. I think that you have definitely exhausted

55:40

the the snapper. III

55:43

spent more time on this and I probably spent my

55:45

twenty eight years on the count of fish committee.

55:47

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