0:14

is going on true crime fan i'm your host

0:16

steve and i'm your host daphne and

0:18

you're listening to going west

0:20

lol everybody thank

0:22

you so much for joining us for yet another episode

0:24

of going west and also think

0:26

you to mary, jane for recommending

0:28

2 days case this is a case

0:30

that i had heard about before very briefly

0:33

it's but diving in and realizing

0:35

just how baffling is

0:37

it really is just wow so

0:39

stinking mary jane for putting this one back on

0:41

our radar

0:42

yes thank you so much mary jane

0:44

also i just wanted to let you guys know that we

0:46

do have extra episodes of going

0:48

west over on r patriot on so if you're interested

0:51

in that yes

0:54

and again thank you everybody for being here and

0:56

thank you everybody for leaving us nice reviews

0:59

commenting and sharing the show

1:01

indeed shower ,

1:03

yeah did i have i'm not looking forward

1:05

to talk about this case because it really is one of those ones

1:07

that you're just like oh my god it's it's

1:10

a horrible story and this

1:12

man that was nothing but nice to

1:14

everybody around him as seems so i'm

1:16

just really looking forward to hearing what you

1:19

guys think about it

1:20

yeah absolutely are against

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they do those in for a

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well liked man went missing from

4:06

a rower colorado after dropping

4:08

his girlfriend off as a guilt

4:15

days later they

4:17

, him brutally and methodically

4:20

murdered in his own basement

4:22

with no apparent motive and

4:25

then suspect inside inside

4:28

chivalry silly rented his basement

4:30

apartment to a stranger so

4:32

was this mr the roommate he blamed

4:35

for his gruesome death

4:40

okay l k

5:01

he albert height jr

5:03

was born on may seventh nineteen

5:05

fifty one it's in rocky mount

5:07

township north carolina to

5:09

his mother eat its davis kites and

5:11

his father okey albert tight senior

5:14

and he also had an older sister named barbara

5:16

kites so to differentiate

5:18

themselves from his dad okay

5:20

albert

5:21

junior started going

5:22

it out so he took his middle name

5:24

shortened it made it his name so although

5:27

we think okay as such cool name

5:29

definitely a very cool name yeah we're gonna

5:31

referred the hammer as what he

5:33

preferred to go by which was l rocky

5:36

mount again where al grew up is

5:38

a moderately sized city in nassau county

5:41

about an hour's drive east from the

5:43

capital city of raleigh sitting

5:45

smack dab in between the capital and

5:47

the coast else father ot

5:49

was a respected dog trainer in the

5:51

area and he owned a company called okey

5:54

and hunter grove dog training at

5:56

some point in our childhood and his

5:59

barbara

5:59

the family moved north to weldon

6:02

north carolina which is in halifax county

6:04

it's almost to the border of north carolina

6:07

and virginia and weldon

6:09

is only about fifty minute

6:10

north of rocky mount so

6:12

not terribly far but it's definitely and a different

6:15

area of the state the

6:17

out tragically the family last

6:19

edith owls mother when he was just

6:21

eighteen years old and her obituary

6:23

didn't state how she passed but she was only

6:26

forty eight

6:27

prior to this al attended

6:29

weldon high school and then went on

6:31

to receive a bachelor's degree in business

6:33

administration from atlantic christian

6:36

college which is now called barton college

6:39

and his school was just about an hour south

6:41

from where he lived in weldon

6:43

so again didn't didn't go very far here

6:45

no one ever had anything bad to say about

6:47

out in every single publication

6:50

about his life and death

6:51

one thing was unanimous that he

6:53

was such a nice guy and was

6:55

described by everyone who knew him

6:58

in loved him as being genuine down

7:00

to earth and always fighting for

7:02

the right thing

7:04

in nineteen seventy six when al

7:06

was twenty five he married a young lady

7:08

he'd gone to high school with named gail

7:11

kim you brought

7:13

with her a daughter named julie from a

7:15

previous relationship the years

7:17

between graduating high school and rekindling

7:19

without and our never wound

7:21

up having any children on his own but

7:24

consider julie to be his daughter and

7:26

the to maintain a very close relationship

7:29

would you get a job as a time keeper for

7:31

a company called stone and webster

7:34

which is an engineering services company based

7:36

in massachusetts which is about

7:38

six the north of north carolina

7:41

and about a twelve hour drive so this

7:43

was a pretty big move for his small family

7:46

don't don't and webster has over

7:48

a dozen subsidiaries in locations

7:50

all over the world

7:52

an al was tasked with keeping projects

7:54

running smoothly and on their deadlines

7:57

and soon as he worked his way up

7:59

to the head of the

7:59

hartman as a project account with

8:02

this position he went on to live

8:04

and work in massachusetts texas

8:07

virginia new york nevada

8:10

wyoming tennessee and even

8:12

overseas in algeria the

8:15

nineteen eighty eight perhaps due to the stress

8:17

put on the couple by all of owls moving around

8:20

the in his wife divorced after a decade

8:22

of marriage however

8:24

al remained in touch with his stepdaughter julie

8:26

since they have a close relationship

8:29

then relocated to california

8:31

to work in san francisco on a few

8:33

large scale projects including the

8:35

san francisco international airport and

8:38

the bay area rapid transport system

8:40

which is also known as the bars

8:43

that in nineteen ninety eight hours

8:45

offered a position in aurora colorado

8:49

one of the outdoors he jumped at this

8:51

opportunity and was excited to spend more

8:53

time golfing and campaign i

8:56

purchased a two storey town home in aurora

8:58

which is a city just twenty minutes south

9:00

east of denver

9:03

fighting that it was too much space for just

9:05

himself he converted his basement

9:07

into an apartment and he was planning on

9:09

renting that out

9:10

which is an important detail in this case

9:13

in two thousand two after thirty

9:15

one the years with the company our

9:17

was let go from stone

9:19

and webster and we read online

9:21

that he was laid off

9:24

some people said laid off some people said like go

9:26

or not

9:26

or why still after this happened

9:28

he went on to find work at a consulting

9:31

called carter douglas

9:34

few years later at fifty three years

9:36

old and after many years alone

9:38

how found love again

9:40

so al had started running into a woman

9:43

named linda angel awful s

9:45

very frequently at christmas parties

9:47

community picnics and just general

9:49

group gatherings linda

9:52

was also divorce but from the father

9:54

of her children and she was convinced

9:56

that she wouldn't find love again but

9:58

one night at a party linda

10:00

in al were seated at the same table

10:03

and is linda put it they chatted the night

10:05

away he described

10:07

him as an all around nice guy and

10:09

a total gentlemen they

10:12

had frequent date nights and she would often

10:14

come over to his house or that he can make dinner for

10:16

her and he remembered al being a fantastic

10:19

cook lena also said

10:21

that she believes al with the love of her life

10:25

in a two thousand four kind of like right before

10:27

the spring linda and our had discussed

10:29

the idea of our getting a new roommate

10:32

so he had been renting out the basement

10:34

apartment to the same tenant for quite a while

10:37

but this person was set to move out

10:39

in the spring of two thousand and four and

10:41

al was pretty eager to make a bit more passive

10:44

income though he started posting

10:46

ads in the local newspaper and

10:48

in the library eerie of the university

10:51

of colorado school of medicine which

10:53

was located near his house a

10:56

few people did express interest and

10:58

came by to see als place

11:01

but one applicant in particular

11:03

was very interested a

11:06

man named robert cooper

11:09

so robert told owl that he was from

11:11

the east coast so just like owl

11:14

though he didn't specifically say where on the

11:16

east coast and that he had moved to

11:18

the denver area for work he

11:20

also didn't specify what he did for a living

11:22

but said that he worked at wells fargo

11:25

and that he'd been staying at his sister's house

11:27

until he could find a place of his own which

11:29

seem to explain why he was so eager to move

11:31

into our basement apartment then

11:34

about three weeks before als death

11:37

he wanted to introduce linda to his potential

11:40

new roommate when she came

11:42

downstairs to greet robert

11:44

the walked right out the door without saying

11:46

a single word so that's pretty

11:49

strange yeah so doesn't seem like a very

11:51

friendly guy

11:52

linda soundexchange very unsettling

11:54

and found him to be cold and rude

11:58

well she says that she didn't get

11:59

right look at his face in that she probably

12:02

couldn't pick him out of a lineup he remembers

12:04

that robert was very well dressed

12:07

and walked with a cane and a limp on

12:09

his right leg the

12:11

and curly black hair and an average

12:14

build about five aids and

12:16

one hundred and eighty pounds

12:18

linda thought that he looks like he was in his late

12:20

thirties or early forties and

12:22

despite this interaction al agreed

12:24

to let robert move in and on

12:26

may eighteenth two thousand and four

12:29

robert came by to give him a deposit

12:31

of five hundred dollars and a set of

12:33

keys on a red zero

12:35

so i wonder if our

12:37

didn't think robert seen that odd

12:39

and he was more focus on just getting the place

12:41

rented and that rob or maybe seemed

12:43

like enough because i don't think

12:45

i'll would have purposefully rented the basement

12:47

apartment to someone he saw was off

12:49

but it's also not like he would be sharing

12:52

a living space with him since this was

12:54

after all separate basement

12:56

apartment yeah and i can definitely

12:58

understand the urgency to get that

13:00

place rented out especially if that's part of

13:03

your own income you know

13:05

and you have this person moving out you just

13:07

need to get somebody in there and robert

13:09

was the most eager says he was like i

13:11

wanna move enforcer level paid

13:13

the deposit i'll move in a right when you

13:15

need me to sell maybe the other applicants

13:18

weren't as eager and this guy

13:20

just the one that was the most willing

13:22

it's oh he was a guy i'm just gonna go with the sued cause i

13:24

need to make the money janice poverty their yeah

13:27

exactly it's possible that al just didn't really care

13:29

about the personality he says like wow you're

13:31

going to be fine yeah you seem fine you

13:33

have the deposits everything's good

13:35

here right the on saturday

13:37

may twenty second two thousand for

13:39

the last day linda would ever

13:42

see our he was taking

13:44

her to the airport in the morning so she could fly

13:46

home to virginia beach to visit family

13:48

because she too was not from colorado but

13:50

from the east coast the car

13:53

on the way they're at they made their relationship

13:55

official finally referring

13:57

to each other as boyfriend and girlfriend

14:00

though it seems like even if linda did

14:02

have any bad feelings about

14:04

his new roommate robert they hadn't

14:07

been in this long term relationship

14:09

or seats in a likely would have in

14:11

more comfortable expressing that

14:13

kinda thing to him

14:14

exactly they just kind of started dating

14:16

so

14:16

yeah the again i think robert we'll

14:19

be looking even more strange with what's coming up

14:21

and it's also could be like a hindsight's twenty

14:23

when you situation but anyway and

14:25

regarding their relationship it seems like

14:27

linda and al were both very

14:30

excited about this next phase because

14:32

she remembers call in him at her layover

14:35

to say hi boyfriend how are you to

14:37

which he replied i'm good girlfriend how are you

14:40

and they chatted for a while for she caught

14:42

her next flight to virginia beach again

14:44

an hour told her that he planned on helping

14:47

robert move in that day

14:49

including helping him get a recliner

14:51

down the stairs when

14:53

linda reached your destination in virginia

14:56

and called again to check in the

14:59

tone had

15:00

changed

15:01

this is al was unusually

15:04

quiet and so in in a

15:06

way that he had never been with

15:08

her before he remembers

15:10

ending the call by a you know agreeing

15:12

that they would talk sometime soon as

15:15

but that something just felt off

15:17

then she now feels that she

15:19

had called it just as al

15:21

was about to be murdered now

15:24

before we go further into that sought

15:27

for reference a non stop flight from

15:29

denver to virginia beach is just

15:31

over three and a half hours self other

15:33

she did have a layover from the time they

15:35

okay during her layover to the

15:38

time she would have finished out her flights

15:40

wouldn't be more than a couple hours or so so

15:42

things quickly took a weird

15:44

term few

15:46

days after this phone call on

15:48

the morning of monday may twenty four

15:51

how failed to show up for work at carter

15:53

douglas and his coworkers

15:55

knowing his work ethic and reliability

15:58

it's were concerned and cold

15:59

emergency contact which was his

16:02

sister barbara who is now married

16:04

and living in virginia the

16:06

concerned and unable to do anything from

16:09

out of state

16:10

barbara contacted police to do a welfare

16:12

check on her brother that

16:15

when police arrived that day

16:17

the house was dead quiet no

16:20

one appear to be home

16:22

the when police check the basement

16:24

the found a gruesome scene

16:28

how had been tied up and severely

16:30

mutilated in the small spare

16:33

bedroom of his own home neck

16:35

had been slashed so many times

16:38

that he was nearly decapitated the

16:41

even for homicide detectives the

16:43

discovery of our body was a shocking

16:45

site and although please didn't

16:47

know a roommate existed at this point in the investigation

16:51

robert cooper was not home

16:54

contact for a second so we know

16:56

that l was helping robert move in that

16:58

day or so he thought he was doing and

17:00

then this discovery is made two days later

17:03

so this really just makes you wonder why

17:05

he sounded so quiet and sullen

17:07

when he was on the phone with linda on saturday

17:10

after she landed in virginia not

17:13

he had ahead of ourselves but with what we know after

17:15

this point if robert is behind what happened

17:18

does that mean maybe he was like holding our

17:20

when al answered the phone you know to me but i

17:23

like yeah it could it's possible that

17:25

you know al was being held hostage in that situation

17:27

yeah robber may have been saying hey

17:30

if if you say anything i'll fucking

17:32

kill you right now and that's for you have to answer

17:34

this call that of she doesn't suspect

17:36

in his yes exact the kid that would make sense

17:38

because i don't know what else you would be sounding so

17:41

solana he was never like

17:43

that before and it may just it

17:45

doesn't make a lotta sense especially because

17:47

this was the time that robber would have

17:49

gone to the house and yeah

17:51

no no i just it very very

17:53

erie

17:54

detective tom sobieski from

17:56

the aurora police department who became

17:59

the lead investigator the on a case and who we are gonna

18:01

talk about throughout this story today is

18:03

convinced that robert attacked

18:05

our by surprise while he was

18:07

walking down the years perhaps

18:09

as he was helping robert move his belongings

18:12

in which would mean that robert

18:14

was planning such a thing before he moved

18:16

in but why we will get

18:18

into but this would also connect to

18:20

why he didn't want linda to see him

18:23

because then she could identify him later

18:25

right so when he ran out the house when she came

18:28

down to meet him probably purpose purposeful

18:30

yeah he was i i don't want anybody else to see me here

18:33

though the markings on als arms

18:35

and legs indicated that our had been

18:37

hog tied into as in his arms were

18:40

tied behind his back and linked at the wrist

18:42

and in his ankles were tied and his

18:44

bent knees were then connected to his grace

18:46

so all tied behind his back but

18:49

detectives noticed something very

18:51

unique about the method of tying

18:53

and enough

18:53

that were used

18:55

the string used to tie him also

18:57

bound his size and his or

18:59

arms which is a configuration not

19:01

normally use in binding a victim

19:04

it can look like an axe flanked by two

19:06

parallel lines and was found

19:09

alongside severe bruising

19:11

at his elbows a

19:13

very tight professional

19:15

grade not tied behind his back

19:18

ensured that he was completely unable

19:20

to move but the string

19:22

was roman moved in discarded before

19:25

als body was left behind

19:28

this information detectives wondered

19:30

if the perpetrator must have had like military

19:33

ties of the have spent a sailor because of

19:35

the not that were used to just made sense

19:38

how sustained more than twenty

19:40

stabs with knives from the nice

19:42

block in als own kitchen and

19:44

the knives were of varying sizes

19:47

knelt these next to the held are very

19:49

gruesome so feel free to skip about ten

19:51

seconds if you'd like then again

19:54

his neck was slashed so deep

19:56

that his head was almost no longer attached

19:59

and on hop of this knives

20:01

had then inserted into owls

20:04

your canal and above his

20:06

eyes this isn't

20:08

right oblique brutal i mean i don't think i've ever

20:10

heard of when doing anything like this

20:13

and yeah in a murder as we can

20:15

hearing is robert is involved the

20:17

didn't even know each other get it seemed very

20:20

personal data will seem like a crime

20:22

of passion but how could it be they just

20:24

met each other yeah i mean just those details are

20:26

just so harsh regarding

20:29

aus actual cause of death he did

20:31

eventually succumbed to blood loss but

20:33

horrifyingly the coroner

20:35

concluded that the torture had gone on for

20:37

hours every

20:40

nice from the nice block in

20:42

our kitchen was left clean and soaking

20:44

in a sink full of the leech

20:47

so his killer appeared very diligent

20:50

also in a think we're to metal rods

20:53

a pen a cop and the

20:55

set of keys that l had just given

20:57

robert a few days prior how

21:01

hard it no enemies and

21:03

there was no sign of any kind of intruder

21:06

so investigators immediately set there

21:08

it's on the new roommate

21:10

he had left virtually no trace

21:13

that he'd ever stepped foot

21:15

in that house

21:17

the even more strange all

21:19

of the information robert had given out

21:22

proven to be false and

21:24

we're sure that his name was too but

21:26

we have to call him robber cooper because that's

21:28

pretty much all we've got robert

21:31

had use the social security number of

21:33

an eighty year old woman who lived in indiana

21:37

the address that he had listed on his application

21:39

was in elementary school and denver

21:42

and the phone number for a woman named julie

21:44

who was supposed to be his character reference

21:47

turned out to be a retirement village in

21:49

aurora the phone number

21:51

that he had listed and used to contact our

21:54

with was found to be a burner phone

21:56

that he had purchased at seven eleven now

21:59

at that time

21:59

seven eleven held onto their surveillance

22:02

camera footage for thirty days

22:04

and robert waited exactly thirty

22:06

days before activating it

22:08

so this guy is smart and more

22:10

than likely experienced teachers

22:13

to know that like how would you know how long they

22:15

held onto their surveillance footage for right

22:18

and to wait thirty days is so smart because

22:20

it's like then you know for sure by the time

22:22

you actually use the phone and

22:25

way before the time that police would even look

22:27

at that foot the age or look for the footage

22:29

it would be long gone get to me it

22:31

almost feels like a

22:33

contract it hits because it's premeditated

22:37

it just has that feeling even

22:39

though it may not be a just has that feeling to

22:41

me like somebody really planned this

22:43

out yeah i agree and will will get into that

22:46

the seriously or because there is a lot a

22:48

lot of thought and speculation on who this guy

22:50

is so our number

22:52

had been the only phone number robert had

22:55

dialed on that phone so

22:57

by the time he used that he knew who system

22:59

was right and he looked

23:01

at ads for various rental properties

23:04

and even toward a few one

23:06

renter described him walking without

23:08

a lamp or kane

23:10

though even that details seems to

23:12

be fake

23:14

detectives also track down a woman who listed

23:16

her own town home and had given robert

23:18

a tour and she said that he made

23:20

the hair on the back of her neck stand

23:22

up it was just this bizarre

23:24

feeling that she got from him this

23:27

woman also happened to teach romanian

23:29

at denver universities and remember

23:32

that see detected a slight romanian

23:34

accent see and linda were

23:36

the only eyewitnesses who could give

23:38

details about his mannerisms and

23:41

description as neighbors reported

23:43

that he would avoid any one but out

23:45

in the short time in which he stayed there and

23:48

of course robert cooper wasn't even his real

23:50

name

23:51

detective sobieski didn't think that roberts

23:54

ever had any intention of actually renting

23:57

and as far as motive goes the

23:59

city

23:59

just looking for someone to call

24:02

the nice guy who would put up little resistance

24:06

a guy like out

24:33

so now we know that nothing

24:35

this man told al

24:36

was trail

24:37

if he wasn't robert to brazil

24:39

who was here and where did he come from and

24:42

where had he fled to after

24:44

our torture and murder investigators

24:47

piece together a timeline and

24:49

sound that robber had washed

24:51

and submerged everything he used in bleach

24:53

and then stolen else car and

24:56

his wallet he

24:58

drove [unk] aloes [unk] pickup truck to a nearby

25:00

branch of wells fargo banks which

25:02

was ironically where he said he worked and

25:04

withdrew about a thousand dollars

25:06

with allows a debit card he

25:09

then ate and slept in aus

25:11

bed discarded the car

25:13

and house keys in the sink with the knives

25:15

will not have the car but he discarded the house

25:18

keys in the sink and then separately discarded

25:20

the car and then he left

25:22

and i'll cell phone was later found

25:25

in some phone booth and it's

25:27

still eerie to think about all of this happening

25:29

like him eating and sleeping upstairs

25:31

and als own bed knowing that allows

25:33

body was under him in the basement i mean this

25:36

guy's so sick and

25:38

another very eerie detail

25:40

of this case this the surveillance footage

25:43

of robert cooper going

25:45

through the drive through atm in aus

25:47

car wearing aus ski mask

25:50

but only three stills were captured and

25:52

it's hard to tell what he really looks

25:54

like but still it was better

25:56

than nothing was so few eyewitness accounts

25:59

to work off of and i mean it at

26:01

the very least you can tell that he's white

26:03

and likely a sinner man and

26:05

even other quality isn't very good and it's

26:07

black and white and eve you didn't

26:09

have a photo of a potential suspect

26:11

you could probably rule them in or

26:13

out

26:14

the east on these photos kids

26:15

you can feel the top of his nose

26:18

and his eyes does not very well

26:20

gentlemen

26:21

dimming this was probably him going through

26:23

this hm drive through like after

26:25

hours because i can't imagine that like

26:27

a know that are sent sitting there like seeing

26:29

a guy in a ski mask like withdrawing money not

26:32

well like what

26:33

going on here it was at night and this is when he

26:35

took the money and then he slept

26:37

in our bed and then he left of

26:39

but before he left he made sure they he

26:41

properly disposed of everything and

26:44

of course has always these photos will

26:46

be posted on or socials few guys to take a look

26:49

also some composite sketch is were drawn

26:51

and we will post those as well

26:54

now as far as robert like covering

26:56

his tracks the only real

26:58

mistake he made was leaving a tiny

27:00

drop of his own blood on

27:02

the carpeted stairs

27:04

really have to handed to him that cedars to be able

27:06

to detect that one specific drop

27:08

sound was not i'll

27:11

yeah like being able to to to

27:14

make are they really did their do james

27:16

and tested all this stuff and they found

27:18

one single drop the

27:20

craze that's pretty impressive the from

27:23

this drop of blood investigators

27:25

were able to build a full dna

27:27

profile from a single source unknown

27:30

male that he is and

27:32

this is mel there

27:33

the wrong just piece of evidence

27:36

the given the brutal nature of this crime the

27:38

f b i got involved in began to build a

27:40

profile of who they believed robert

27:43

to be that profile

27:45

is now in the f b i code is database

27:47

or combined dna index

27:49

system unfortunately

27:52

no matches have come in yet meaning

27:54

that this guy has never entered his dna

27:56

into the system ha he's

27:59

probably never been a

27:59

that for a crime and since als

28:02

murder

28:03

if robert were to commit another crime

28:05

and get caught dna

28:07

would be entered into the system and they

28:09

would be able to link the two cases to the same

28:12

perpetrator

28:14

you don't in nineteen hours

28:16

murder was the subject of an episode of

28:18

the dna of murder with paul holes

28:20

a cold case investigator who worked on the

28:22

golden state killers case and someone

28:25

that probably all of you guys now

28:27

the episode sparked renewed interest in the

28:29

case as well as brought in experts

28:32

who came up with their own theories sharon

28:35

hagan a retired california department

28:37

of justice profiler explained

28:39

that this was a ritual fantasy killing

28:42

for this murderer

28:44

this would be a lifelong

28:46

behavioral pattern for this roberts

28:49

cooper but a lot of the times unfortunately

28:51

it a lot of these types of like sadistic

28:54

offenders don't undergo psychiatric

28:57

treatment until it's too late and

28:59

they're already in police custody the for involvement

29:01

in a cry now

29:03

i share in the hague in at believes

29:05

that he is a psycho pass meaning

29:08

someone who is a manipulative

29:10

person but can seem charming

29:12

and who can lead some semblance of a normal

29:15

life as opposed to a sociopath

29:17

who typically tends to be ill unpredictable

29:20

and own to angry outbursts most

29:23

defenders are unable to delay satisfaction

29:26

but robert prove that he can

29:29

and allowed himself to shop

29:31

and screened for his victim taking

29:33

over a month to lead agree work

29:35

for this crime you're

29:38

an explainer an offender like robert would

29:40

likely be a narcissist and

29:42

and emotionally detached loner who doesn't

29:45

maintain those or intimate relationships

29:47

with a any one hands why he takes all

29:49

this time to plan murdering

29:51

someone be i got no life unfortunately

29:54

she believes roberts tied to be the most

29:56

difficult to catch he's

29:59

vengeful extremely dangerous

30:01

and his type of violence is rare

30:03

and there or difficult to track here

30:06

and even said quotes i believe

30:09

he will watch this show

30:11

that's very scary and i just

30:13

feel like

30:14

can i had this can be his first

30:16

time killing someone because he seemed

30:18

very meticulous with how he left things als

30:21

house as if he had some sort of experience

30:23

which it just makes you wonder yeah but also

30:26

the thing that boggles my mind is that he

30:29

was also kind of careless and ways to like

30:31

sleeping in the victims bed

30:33

but he didn't leave any dna and about

30:34

right i know but was like why is it but that's

30:37

the thing is it's like it's almost kind of like a

30:39

hi i'm smarter than you yes

30:41

i'm gonna get away with this right the

30:44

dna testing done on his drop of

30:46

blood at places ethnic background

30:48

in the balkans which are a

30:50

geographic region of se europe

30:53

including albania bosnia

30:56

herzegovina bulgaria

30:58

kosovo montenegro

31:01

and north macedonia partially

31:03

included within the region are

31:06

greece serbia croatia

31:08

and slovenia romania

31:11

turkey and italy know obviously

31:13

that as a massive region and it wouldn't

31:15

necessarily narrow down there search but

31:17

investigators do hope that as more

31:19

dna profiles and genie illogical

31:22

tests kind of circulated they

31:24

will eventually be able to link this to

31:26

a family member or someone who

31:28

knows roberts and remember

31:31

one of the women who had toward her home

31:33

to robber before als murder sense

31:35

some sort of romanian accent

31:37

so this does click the

31:40

manner in which l was killed is

31:42

seen by some as methodical

31:44

and ritualistic enough to have been carried

31:46

out by a terrorist or militant

31:48

organization one

31:51

in particular that were considered

31:53

to have been involved in this crime we're

31:56

the kurdish hezbollah

31:58

kurdish people or kurds

31:59

the other people indigenous to the mess

32:02

amy and planes or what are now

32:04

heart of turkey syria or

32:06

iraq he ran and armenia

32:09

and hezbollah means party of god

32:12

be original has been the military

32:14

group and political party that emerged during

32:16

a lebanon civil war or was

32:18

formed as a way to push back against

32:20

the invasion of israeli troops

32:22

into southern lebanon in nineteen

32:25

eighty two

32:26

like as it evolved the

32:28

group became known to be linked to attacks

32:31

kidnappings and car bombings

32:34

the kurdish hezbollah is a separate

32:36

section of hezbollah with

32:39

the objection of establishing a separate

32:41

extremists territory in south

32:43

the eastern turkey the region of turkey

32:46

where kurds are native to

32:48

one method of torture synonymous

32:50

with the kurdish hezbollah group is

32:53

full locker or for longer also

32:55

called the nada this

32:58

was a method of torture used solely

33:00

to inflict pain over a long period

33:03

of time rather than the cause actual

33:05

sustained injuries how

33:07

was found with the bottoms of his feet

33:09

facing upward at the ceiling

33:11

the laceration him bruising work

33:14

consistent with having been struck by a

33:16

rod which is what would have been traditionally

33:18

used in a method of torture such

33:20

as this

33:22

along with the nice keys

33:24

in a pan to honing rods

33:26

generally used to sharpen knives were

33:29

found in the same

33:30

this along with roberts accent lead

33:33

someone the keys to believe our torture

33:35

part of a much more sophisticated

33:38

crime operation wow

33:40

cases like this are rare and therefore difficult

33:42

to connect to others solves or unsolved

33:45

wolves murder has drawn to many comparisons

33:48

to that of mike emmert from seattle

33:50

washington

33:52

mike and his wife mary were real estate agents

33:54

in seattle and on january fourth

33:57

two thousand and one so about three

33:59

years before our

33:59

murder and multiple states away mike

34:02

met up with a man named steven

34:05

who is interested in one of makes properties

34:08

oddly enough stephen was

34:10

described as a middle aged man who

34:12

walked with a cane and a live that

34:16

january day mike in stephen

34:18

met at a local mall and headed

34:20

over to the house together

34:22

there was a secluded property within it's neighborhood

34:24

far from the other houses and

34:26

likely why stephen selected this particular

34:29

listed

34:30

the pair headed to the house the eleven

34:32

thirty am

34:34

then the person who was living in the home at

34:36

the time returned from work

34:38

at twelve thirty pm so an hour

34:40

later to find the front door

34:42

ajar and the sound of water

34:45

running upstairs

34:47

the trail of blood letter to the bathroom

34:49

where she found make stabbed

34:51

nineteen times and place

34:54

in the bathtub with the shower running

34:57

no motive has ever been identified

35:00

and while there world persons of interest no

35:02

one was ever convicted of mike's

35:04

seen it's murder

35:06

it's probably unlikely that the two are related

35:08

but the similarities or an odd coincidence

35:11

they really are and for those wondering how

35:13

forgot to mention this earlier owls

35:15

townhouse was not a secluded

35:17

obviously with it being a townhouse it was

35:20

connected to other town houses in a row

35:22

and even had others right across

35:24

the street so definitely not secluded

35:27

at all it's very close to a lot

35:29

of other houses on the same streets and

35:31

on the cross street there's a ton

35:34

of homes so definitely an odd

35:36

choice but clearly robert

35:38

got away with it for now detective

35:42

tom sobieski although he's now

35:44

retired has made it his mission

35:46

to solve the owls case and

35:49

he worked with paul holes on the episode

35:51

of the dna of murderer he

35:53

says he still thinks of l almost

35:55

daily and then it haunts in that such

35:58

a nice guy who tried to do everything the

36:00

right in life was taken and city dramatic

36:02

way tom

36:04

stated quote we don't often

36:06

have such a true victim written

36:10

evidence for our case has amassed

36:12

more than eight thousand pages

36:14

so far and tom keeps a picture

36:17

of al in his case book to this day

36:20

how is still miss by all

36:22

who knew him especially his sister

36:24

for husband and else two nieces

36:27

as well as julie who was still named

36:29

in his obituary as his stepdaughter

36:32

linda is still devastated by

36:34

the loss having finally found the

36:36

love of her life just in time to lose

36:38

him

36:39

she said fifteen years after his

36:41

murder in two thousand and nineteen quotes

36:44

i love him more today

36:46

it seems as time goes on i

36:48

love

36:48

more and more

37:01

thank you guys so much the listening to this

37:03

episode and on friday we'll have an all new

37:05

case for you guys to dive in

37:06

i really wonder what would have happened

37:09

that day had lindsay not been

37:11

out of town because they didn't live together

37:13

yeah but i wonder if she had been over

37:15

there to kind of settled and it's maybe

37:18

she would have fallen victim as well

37:20

or if robert would have waited to do this to our

37:22

while he was alone like i

37:24

don't know how robert would have known that

37:27

she was gonna be on a town that day i can they

37:29

didn't

37:29

if you get it but still this was some i'm very close

37:31

to our well we do know that

37:33

it's possible that

37:35

roberts was

37:37

you know keeping tabs on our

37:40

and may have known or somehow

37:42

figured out that wasn't gonna be there

37:44

yeah and that you know out with the along i'll

37:46

could have mentioned it for sure he could have

37:48

oh i'm taking my girlfriend to the airport

37:50

that day and then i'm free you

37:52

know and then absolutely then he knew that he would

37:54

be alone nicest it

37:56

is then we i go back to that phone call

37:58

with linda just when that this happen

38:01

it really truly do believe that at

38:03

the time at that linda called him he was

38:05

more than likely i don't know

38:07

tied up or something by robber at that time

38:10

yeah i mean the hope is that

38:12

genealogy testing could possibly

38:14

it helped solve this case because

38:17

they may be able to you know find a traced

38:19

to a family member and and connected to this supposed

38:22

rather cooper right which would

38:23

so amazing so make sure you share this case

38:25

everybody and or go look at our social

38:27

for photos again of the a surveillance

38:29

footage from the wells fargo bank atm drive

38:31

through and then also of his composite

38:34

sketches and then you can wonderful

38:36

smiling out as well alright

38:38

guys so for everybody out there in there world

38:40

gonna be gonna stranger