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When the kids call and they say, Hey Dad, can

0:32

you pick up Skyline? I'm always

0:34

like, absolutely. I'm halfway there because

0:36

you don't have to tell me twice. That's

0:39

the time for our family to be together and

0:41

Skyline's always been part of our family time. Hey

0:47

y'all, just wanted to pop in before we get

0:49

started to give you a nudge. Ruby

0:52

recently started a Facebook group

0:54

for Elisa called Missing Elisa

0:56

Roberson. As the

0:58

case progresses, something that will hopefully

1:01

happen, and soon, the group will

1:03

be the best place to keep

1:05

up. Again, it's

1:07

called Missing Elisa Roberson. So

1:10

search that on Facebook or click

1:12

the link in this episode's show

1:14

notes. Thanks. The

1:17

Gone Cold podcast may contain violent

1:20

or graphic subject matter. Listener discretion

1:22

is advised. They

1:33

don't

1:36

just

1:38

go

1:41

and

1:44

stand outside when there's a missing person. They go

1:46

inside, they do a search, they look at things. They

1:48

ask us if we give them some clothes of Elisa's

1:50

so that when they did the search with the dog,

1:53

they can have her spent. They asked

1:55

for her diary. They went to our house.

1:58

They withdrew everything. they

2:00

would have seen something if there would

2:02

have been anything suspicious in the home. But

2:04

I think it was Debbie at some point

2:06

made up or said this and that's where

2:08

things kind of turned on my mom. Weeks

2:23

after the disappearance of 13-year-old Elisa

2:26

Roberson, students at AC Blount Middle

2:28

School in Aransas Pass, Texas, where

2:30

she should have entered the seventh

2:33

grade, were forced to come to

2:35

terms with what had happened. No

2:39

one knew what that was, of course,

2:41

or even had a clue really, but

2:43

they did know it wasn't good. Elisa's

2:46

friend Holly remembered the somber feeling

2:49

of the first day of class

2:51

well. It

2:53

was very somber. Of course,

2:56

she wasn't here to compare

2:58

schedules before school started. And

3:01

so I didn't know what classes we were supposed to have together

3:04

when we were doing the first roll

3:06

call of the science class

3:09

and the teacher called her name and

3:11

everybody was really quiet. No one would

3:13

say anything and he called her name

3:15

again. And somebody, I don't remember who,

3:17

somebody just piped up, she's missing.

3:21

By November 1989, according

3:24

to the Corpus Christi Collar Times,

3:26

private investigators had joined in on

3:28

the search for the missing girl

3:30

and whoever was responsible for whatever

3:33

happened to her. Marina

3:36

Roberson spent her days overcome by

3:38

both the anguish and uncertainty that

3:40

accompanied the disappearance of her oldest

3:43

daughter on August 6, 1989, and

3:45

the near-paralyzing fear brought

3:50

on by the belief that

3:52

her abusive ex-boyfriend, Ralph Gonzalez,

3:54

was responsible and would return

3:56

to harm another one of

3:59

her children. This

4:01

debilitating fear seeped into

4:03

the psyches of Ruby,

4:05

Tony, and Alex, who

4:07

were also horribly abused

4:09

by Gonzalez, exacerbating their

4:11

feelings of uncertainty and

4:13

sadness. Aransas

4:16

Pass Police Chief Melvin Shedd

4:18

and Detective Sergeant Richard Rodriguez,

4:21

who knew Gonzalez well, located

4:23

and visited the man in a

4:26

Monterey, Mexico prison and discovered he'd

4:28

been there since May. But

4:31

even that could not quell Marina's fear

4:33

of him, nor could the

4:35

fact that the cops were busy following

4:37

a lead that seemed far more plausible,

4:40

one that Marina thought at the time

4:42

was absurd. To

4:45

provide the clearest picture of that

4:47

particular lead, however, it seems necessary

4:49

to leave it behind and first

4:52

discuss the many others that came

4:54

to the Aransas Pass Police Department

4:56

in the preceding years and then

4:59

decades. There weren't

5:01

many good ones, but detectives followed

5:03

up on even the least promising

5:05

of them. None

5:07

of the trails led anywhere. Because

5:11

Alisa's photograph was featured in

5:13

a Montgomery Ward's department store

5:16

catalog in 1994, courtesy of

5:18

the National Center for Missing

5:20

and Exploited Children, it was

5:22

an especially busy year for

5:24

the case. Aransas

5:27

Pass Police Captain of Detectives

5:29

Mike Thompson told a reporter for

5:31

the Collar Times that an

5:33

ex-deputy sheriff out of Georgia called

5:35

the department in March with a

5:38

possible sighting of Alisa Roberson. The

5:41

photo on the back of the

5:43

Montgomery Ward's catalog looked just like

5:46

a young girl who'd just cleaned

5:48

his swimming pool, the former lawman

5:50

said. Working

5:52

with police in Georgia, however, Captain

5:55

Thompson quickly discovered that it wasn't

5:57

her. Next

6:00

month, April of 1994, a

6:02

nationally distributed flyer featuring a

6:05

Jane Doe in Chula Vista,

6:07

California, came into the Aransas

6:09

Pass Police Department. The

6:12

facial features in the composite sketch

6:15

of the unidentified female just jumped

6:17

out, Thompson said, meaning

6:20

they were very similar to Elisa's.

6:23

He wasted no time sending her

6:25

dental records to the Chula Vista

6:27

Police Department, but they didn't

6:29

match. Then, in

6:32

June 1994, an official at

6:34

the National Center for Missing

6:36

and Exploited Children contacted the

6:38

Aransas Pass Police with a

6:40

tip they'd received, a

6:42

girl fitting Elisa Roberson's description

6:45

seen at a church in

6:47

Pima County, Arizona. After

6:50

faxing a photograph of Elisa to

6:52

authorities there, who subsequently showed it

6:55

to members of the church in

6:57

question, not a single congregant recognized

6:59

her. The

7:01

original investigator in charge of the

7:04

case, Lieutenant Linda Thompson, had since

7:06

left the department to work as

7:08

a private investigator for a law

7:10

firm, though she remained

7:13

the Aransas Pass Police training

7:15

officer. She still

7:17

thought about Elisa's case every day. In

7:22

December of 1994, the male

7:24

advertising company ADVO, or ADVO,

7:27

added Elisa Roberson to their

7:29

program called, America's Looking for

7:32

its Missing Children. The

7:35

program, which began in 1983, had a good record. About

7:40

one in seven of the children

7:42

featured in their many mailing campaigns

7:44

were recovered safe and sound. Across

7:48

the United States, ADVO mailed

7:50

out about 73 million cards

7:52

featuring both a photo of

7:54

Elisa taken when she was

7:57

13 years old, an age

7:59

progressed picture. of what she

8:01

might look like at age eighteen, and

8:03

the phone number for the program's national

8:05

hotline. Thirty-seven million

8:08

were distributed in the state of

8:10

Texas alone. The

8:13

campaign resulted in dozens of

8:15

tips and approximately sixty alleged

8:17

sightings of Elisa, all of

8:19

which were forwarded to the

8:22

Aransas Pass Police Department. All

8:25

but thirteen, however, were unable to

8:27

be followed up on. Since

8:30

most, Captain Mike Thompson said

8:32

as an example, consisted of

8:34

callers saying they'd seen Elisa

8:36

six months before shopping at

8:38

a Kmart store. Calls,

8:41

obviously, that were simply impossible

8:43

to confirm or eliminate. One

8:47

of the leads able to be

8:50

investigated was from Tulsa, from where

8:52

someone called the hotline after seeing

8:54

a news story on television about

8:57

an unidentified dead body found that

8:59

resembled the Aransas Pass missing girl.

9:02

By the time Captain Thompson called

9:05

police there, the body had already

9:07

been identified as someone else. Then

9:10

an apartment manager in New Jersey reported

9:13

to have shown a unit to a

9:15

person who looked like Elisa, but after

9:17

police there went door to door at

9:19

the complex showing a picture of her,

9:21

no one could say they'd seen her.

9:25

Perhaps the most promising lead came

9:27

out of Bail, North Carolina. There,

9:30

a tipster said they'd possibly seen

9:33

Elisa at an area high school.

9:36

Thompson made contact with a detective who went

9:38

to the school with a photo of the

9:41

missing girl in tow. I

9:43

think I got her. The detective reported

9:45

back to Captain Thompson. This

9:47

girl's a dead ringer. But

9:50

after background checks, it turned out the

9:52

lookalike had been in the North Carolina

9:54

city her entire life. The

9:58

13 verifiable leads were all

10:00

checked out and eliminated by February of

10:02

1995. Although

10:05

the article reporting these turns of

10:08

events quoted Captain Mike Thompson as

10:10

saying there was no suspect in

10:12

the case, that isn't exactly true,

10:15

but the department continued to keep their

10:17

prime suspect close to the chest, as

10:20

will we, for now. It

10:23

was more than six long years

10:25

until anything other than an anniversary

10:27

piece was reported in the press.

10:31

On Friday, June 9, 2001,

10:34

KRISTB Corpus Christi received

10:36

an envelope. It

10:39

was anonymous and though what was

10:41

actually written within was never divulged

10:43

publicly, it was described as a

10:46

note and it contained a map.

10:49

The map, which claimed to lead to

10:52

the body of Elisa Roberson, could not

10:54

be followed. And

10:56

Thompson told reporters he was well

10:58

familiar with the area the map

11:00

purported to represent, but

11:02

the note lacked specificity and

11:05

the map itself lacked sufficient

11:07

landmarks to warrant any digging

11:09

at all. In

11:11

other words, it was another dead end.

11:15

About a mile north of the San Patricio

11:17

County line on March 17, 2005, a work

11:20

crew cut through heavy

11:23

brush as they created a back

11:25

entrance on the property of their

11:28

employer. Along the

11:30

fence line, just a few yards

11:32

from Johnson Road, they found bones.

11:35

It was something that was not

11:37

necessarily unusual since wildlife is sometimes

11:40

hit by passing cars, but

11:42

then on the other side of

11:45

the barbed wire they found something

11:47

incredibly unusual, a human

11:49

skull. Officers

11:52

from both the San Patricio County

11:54

and Aransas Pass County Sheriff's offices

11:56

combed the area near the discovery

11:58

and collected the area. all the

12:00

bones they could find. After

12:03

they were sent to the University

12:05

of North Texas at Denton, Dr.

12:07

Harold Gil King separated the bones,

12:10

some of which were animal and

12:12

some human. The

12:14

Nueces County Medical Examiner commented

12:16

that no pelvis bone had

12:18

been found, but roughly

12:20

estimated that the skull belonged to

12:23

a male. Still,

12:25

Captain Mike Thompson kept a

12:27

close eye out, with Elisa

12:29

Roberson in mind. Though

12:32

at the time the plan was

12:34

to extract material from the skull

12:37

for mitochondrial DNA testing, according

12:39

to NamUs.gov, whether the bones

12:41

were male or female is

12:43

still unknown to this day,

12:46

and there's no year of death

12:48

estimated. So, Captain

12:50

Thompson never got an answer to

12:52

this lead, and Elisa's case continued

12:55

to get colder and colder. A

12:59

little more than 10 years later,

13:01

both in direct view of public

13:03

sight and well outside its peripheral,

13:06

the case of the disappearance of

13:08

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2016, Aransas Pass Police Captain

14:57

Kyle Rhodes headed up several

15:00

new avenues of investigation. It

15:03

isn't clear what prompted his

15:06

reopening, Alisa Roberson's case, and

15:08

the department didn't respond to

15:10

our requests for comment. Former

15:14

Aransas Pass Captain Mike Thompson and

15:16

former Lieutenant Linda Thompson came down

15:19

from their home in Goliad and

15:21

met with Texas Equisearch officials in

15:24

June 2016, including the

15:27

organization's founder, Tim Miller.

15:31

I was made aware of Equisearch

15:33

by this Christina Villarreal-Pena, I think

15:35

is her name. She had

15:37

worked with them. So I called the guy

15:40

and he was just, oh,

15:42

well, we'll be down there tomorrow.

15:45

And I said, well, I hadn't even talked to the

15:47

chief down there. We've been gone for 15 years,

15:51

but they wanted to come right away. And

15:53

we met them in town, drove down to Aransas

15:56

Pass, went in to talk to the police, and

15:58

the police were just not happy. interested

16:00

in communicating with Mike or

16:02

I for one thing, which

16:04

I found very strange considering

16:07

we both, Mike worked there

16:09

26 years. I

16:11

worked there 17 as a police

16:13

officer and another four terms as

16:15

a City Council member and mayor

16:17

pro-10 so we were very well

16:19

thought of in the community. They

16:22

wouldn't let us in or pass the lobby.

16:25

It was an interesting strategy

16:27

alienating the case's original detectives

16:30

but it appears a conspiracy

16:32

had materialized and both Aransas

16:35

Pass Police's Kyle Rhodes and

16:37

Texas Ranger Antonio Deluna appear

16:39

to have been fully invested.

16:43

Linda Thompson fell ill shortly thereafter

16:45

within days in fact and spent

16:47

months in the hospital so she

16:49

and Mike would have been unable

16:52

to help much even if

16:54

the department wanted it. The

16:57

ground penetrating radar searches quickly

16:59

moved to another site below

17:02

the above garage home where

17:04

Marina Roberson and her children

17:06

Ruby, Tony and Alex lived

17:08

when Alisa disappeared and for

17:10

a couple years after. Anyway

17:13

efforts to locate Alisa's body

17:16

on or near the properties

17:18

of the case's prime suspect

17:20

even after clearing one field

17:22

using a backhoe, Rhodes said,

17:24

turned up nothing but

17:27

still he added the case

17:29

had moved forward thanks to

17:31

efforts elsewhere suggesting they discovered

17:33

something either in the garage

17:35

itself or under the carport

17:37

that didn't even exist when the 13

17:39

year old went missing. A few

17:44

years after Alisa disappeared, Marina

17:46

moved her self and her

17:48

children out of Aransas Pass.

17:50

Okay I was so terrified

17:53

so terrified at that time

17:55

I still thought that Ralph did it and

17:57

he won't come and kill us all. and

18:00

I could not sleep or anything.

18:03

When my kids slept, I

18:05

was awake in my

18:07

mind, guarding them because Ralph wasn't

18:09

gonna break in and kill us

18:11

all. So

18:14

I talked to some, to

18:16

the bishop of a church to

18:18

his wife and I told

18:20

her what was going on under

18:23

this man, Alex Dodd, and

18:25

he went so terrified, he

18:27

went up killer. And

18:29

she said, well, why don't you

18:32

live? I have

18:34

no place to go. I have

18:36

nobody, no relatives, no money, no

18:38

car, no nothing. And

18:40

she said, if you will have the

18:43

opportunity to live, when could you do

18:45

it? And I said, tomorrow,

18:49

I said today. And

18:51

he went and she did. Arrangements

18:54

were made through the church with help

18:56

from the police to get Marina and

18:58

the kids out of Aransas Pass. And

19:02

in fact, out of Texas

19:04

altogether. Somewhere along the

19:06

way, some rumors got started that she never

19:08

left her home and then something

19:10

happened in her home. Perhaps

19:12

this was the seed that allowed the

19:14

Aransas Pass police in 2016 to entertain

19:16

a new theory, but

19:19

it wasn't the only factor, it seems.

19:23

We spoke with Debbie Green, the

19:26

friend Elisa was to meet at

19:28

Keyburger Elementary School the day she

19:31

vanished. What she told

19:33

us seems to be the direction police

19:35

were taking the investigation in 2016, which

19:39

we'll get back to soon enough. Debbie

19:42

refers to Elisa as Lisa, it

19:44

should be noted, which she said

19:46

was what she called her. Her

19:50

take is an unpopular one, at least in

19:52

the eyes of the folks who would speak

19:54

with us, but Debbie's stake

19:56

in the case is high. And anyway,

19:58

it's only fair. her version of

20:01

events is told. Even

20:03

if it's also necessary to point

20:05

out when and where they don't

20:07

match known facts and other credible

20:09

accounts. Debbie's first

20:11

statement is one we won't spend

20:14

time analyzing since at its core

20:16

the detail will neither make nor

20:18

break the case. When

20:20

Ruby said that I called Lisa

20:22

that's not accurate. Lisa called me.

20:25

I didn't call her. What

20:27

follows, however, will be discussed

20:30

point for point. She

20:32

wanted to come to my house because she

20:34

was fighting with her mom. Our mom was

20:36

threatening to hit her. Anyways, Lisa called

20:38

wanted to come over and this was

20:40

around three o'clock three three thirty ish

20:43

somewhere in that time frame. According

20:46

to police records and my

20:48

memory and the news reports and things

20:50

like that. According to

20:52

newspaper reports near the time of

20:54

her disappearance, at least a left

20:56

her house between four thirty and

20:58

five p.m. Just like

21:00

we reported in episode one. It's

21:03

the narrative most folks have gone by for

21:06

years. However, it seems

21:08

it was much later than that

21:10

about an hour later and

21:12

about two hours later than the

21:14

timeline Debbie remembers or has been

21:17

told. Before we

21:19

proceed, it cannot be stressed enough

21:21

that these times are estimates and

21:24

that I'm giving the earliest possible

21:26

for each individual event. According

21:29

to a ranses past police lieutenant

21:32

Linda Thompson, the church bus arrived

21:34

at the home of the girl

21:36

at least spent the afternoon with

21:38

at approximately five twenty p.m. That's

21:42

the girl we called Sharon in episode

21:44

one. Both Sharon's

21:46

mother and the bus driver

21:48

reported this during Linda's investigation.

21:51

Information collected the following day.

21:55

Elisa had declined to go to church with

21:57

her and Sharon told me that Elisa had

21:59

left just minutes before she drove

22:01

away in the bus, heading to

22:03

Sunday evening services, which began

22:06

at six o'clock, according to several folks.

22:09

That all makes perfect sense. And

22:11

perhaps Marina was mistaken when she reported four

22:13

30 to five PM, which

22:17

is understandable. She did

22:19

say that she never remembered looking at the

22:21

clock. When the Corpus

22:23

Christi caller times requested the police

22:25

report, there it was, the wrong

22:28

window of time. And it's been

22:30

used ever since. Back

22:32

to Debbie Green. She

22:34

wanted to come to my house and I told

22:36

her, well, I need to run over and ask

22:38

my mom. My mom was at the AA building.

22:41

The AA building was right behind

22:43

my house across the alleyway. So

22:46

I ran over there with the little girl that

22:48

was with me and I asked mom is okay

22:50

if I walked to keep Burger to go meet

22:52

Lisa and cause she come over. And she said,

22:54

sure. Cause we had a pretty much open door

22:56

policy with the rovers and kids. So they were,

22:58

we were always in and out of everybody's house,

23:00

you know, small town in the eighties

23:02

ever. That's how you, we didn't have Facebook,

23:04

you know, you went to somebody's house, you

23:06

rode bikes or walked or whatever. Debbie

23:09

told us she did not remember if she

23:11

called Lisa back and gave her the thumbs

23:14

up or if Alisa had already left. So

23:18

Sarah had to tie her shoes and go pay. So

23:20

we stopped back in my house, helped

23:22

retire shoes. So we went to the bathroom and

23:25

then we had it to keep burger. When

23:27

the bloodhound Clementine trailed, Alisa sent

23:29

the morning after she went missing.

23:32

She lost it near the corner

23:34

of South ninth street and goodnight

23:36

Avenue, which meant the 13 year

23:38

old walked a little past key

23:41

burger. Now after

23:43

she decided not to go to church

23:45

with Sharon, it took Alisa six minutes

23:47

to walk home. She probably

23:49

arrived no earlier than 5.26 PM. Then

23:54

Debbie called or Alisa called

23:56

Debbie, whichever. And that along

23:58

with convincing Marina. to let her

24:00

go had to have added at least a few

24:03

minutes. Let's say it's now 5.30. It also

24:07

takes six minutes to get from

24:09

Elisa's house tonight and good night

24:11

on foot, near Keyburger Elementary, and

24:13

for Debbie and her friend, ten

24:15

minutes to walk from Debbie's house

24:17

to Keyburger. Elisa probably

24:20

arrived at the meeting point at 5.36 p.m. and

24:22

remember that's at the

24:26

very earliest. Debbie

24:28

and her friend took several minutes to

24:30

leave, probably two at the absolute minimum,

24:32

which would put them at the school

24:34

at 5.42 in this very loose, though

24:39

educated, estimation. And

24:42

we waited, I don't know how long we waited for, it

24:44

felt like forever, but we were ten and

24:47

eight so you know it could have been

24:49

five minutes or twenty minutes. I really don't

24:51

know the exact amount

24:54

of time that we waited.

24:57

If they waited there five minutes, it's now 5.47

25:00

p.m. Next, Debbie

25:02

told us she and her friend walked back

25:04

to her house to try and call Elisa.

25:07

It's now 5.57 p.m.

25:10

And we got to my house

25:12

and I called her house to see if she had

25:14

left yet and her mom said she had

25:16

left and I said, well, she's not at Keyburger. That

25:19

added at least a few minutes, bringing the

25:21

time now to know earlier than a few

25:23

minutes after 6. This

25:26

account, besides both Ruby and

25:28

Marina's recollection, that Debbie talked

25:30

to Ruby and not Marina,

25:32

aligns with the investigative narrative.

25:35

So then me and Sarah

25:38

hung up the phone and we walked

25:40

to where my dad was, which

25:42

was the opposite direction of Elisa's,

25:44

but about three blocks from my

25:46

house, the opposite direction. Debbie's

25:49

father Bob was, according to

25:51

him, at a shed

25:54

on a lot where he stored

25:56

his construction slash handyman equipment on

25:58

13th Street. as

28:00

what most folks would have done. Driving

28:02

up and down the dozens and dozens

28:05

of blocks in the neighborhood would have

28:07

taken quite some time. We

28:09

couldn't find her. So we

28:11

went to Dairy Queen. We

28:14

got ice cream. For me, Sarah, and for

28:16

her, because my dad always included all

28:18

the kids, you don't eat in front

28:20

of somebody unless you've got some to share. It's just

28:22

the way we grew up. A

28:24

trip to Dairy Queen alone would have

28:27

added several more minutes, perhaps up

28:29

to 25, between driving

28:31

there the very short distance, placing

28:33

and waiting for the order, and

28:36

then driving to Elisa's, also a

28:38

short distance. Bob

28:40

told Marina they couldn't find

28:43

Elisa. This is

28:45

when Bob told Marina she'd better call

28:47

the cops, but according to Debbie, she

28:49

brushed him off and did not. Well

28:52

it's true she didn't. Somebody did. 12

28:55

year old Ruby. The

28:57

police were notified by telephone at

28:59

9.49 p.m. This

29:02

is supported by the police report,

29:04

which also backs up the memory

29:06

of everyone who remembers the police

29:08

coming to the Roberson home that

29:10

night. But Debbie's

29:13

recollection differs. It

29:15

was like around 9.30 that night, my

29:18

dad and myself took Marina

29:21

to the police department to file

29:23

the missing persons report. Okay. This

29:26

is factual. This is not made up. That

29:28

actually happened. We're the ones that took her

29:30

there. Her theory

29:32

on what happened to Elisa is

29:35

also much different. In

29:37

my opinion, she went to discipline

29:39

her because she didn't want her to

29:41

leave again. Elisa got mouthy with her

29:43

for whatever reason, being a teenage girl,

29:45

you know. And Marina got

29:49

mad at her and somehow went

29:51

to hit her like she said her mom was trying

29:53

to do when she was trying to leave. That was

29:56

her whole reason for leaving was she was fighting with

29:58

her mom. And she fell down. them

30:00

stairs and broke her neck and died. That's what I

30:02

think happened and I think she's still in that house.

30:05

She hit her too hard, she fell down the stairs and

30:08

she's buried underneath that

30:10

cement in that garage. Hey

30:23

guys it is Ryan. I'm not sure if

30:25

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30:27

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30:29

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aforementioned differing memories Debbie Green

31:58

had as as far

32:00

as the timeline and exact version of events

32:02

are far from the end of the story.

32:06

According to Debbie, I know had

32:08

she had left that house that day, an

32:10

adult that was credible would have

32:13

seen her because there was people outside a

32:15

crash from Keyburger school. There was a house

32:17

on the corner right there. I was

32:20

outside barbecuing, having a like back

32:22

to school party or some birthday

32:24

party or some bullshit. I don't

32:26

remember exactly. But I know there

32:28

was a crowd of like 10

32:30

or 20 people, a lot

32:33

of people having a party that had

32:35

music going and the barbecue going and

32:37

all of that. And not one of

32:39

those people saw her and they weren't

32:42

directly across the street. The

32:44

story that I have about

32:46

what happened that day is going to be that

32:49

she never left that house. And I've

32:51

always felt that. And I will always

32:53

feel that until I'm on show to otherwise,

32:55

because has she had left that house, one,

32:58

somebody credible would have seen her. A

33:01

person that said that they seen her was

33:03

not a credible person to have seen her

33:05

because it could have been on another day

33:07

because we walked that route all the time.

33:09

It was a daily thing. It was a

33:11

summer. It could have been the day before,

33:13

a week before. It could, it

33:15

might not have been that day. I don't

33:17

think that that person is accurate

33:19

on their statement. So

33:22

nobody saw a thing that

33:24

day. Nobody. But

33:27

the assertion that no one witnessed Alisa

33:30

Roberson leave her house that day simply

33:32

isn't true. As she left

33:34

Mrs. Ali Lee Barker,

33:36

a secretary at the local high

33:39

school observed Alisa heading down her

33:41

long driveway to the street that

33:43

day, as did her

33:45

husband, Lawrence Red Barker, a

33:47

decorated World War II veteran.

33:51

That was on the corner of Whitney

33:53

Street and Goodnight Avenue, not directly

33:55

next door to the Roberson home,

33:57

not directly next door to the

34:00

Roberson home, as I erroneously

34:02

reported in Part I of

34:04

Elisa's story. Sorry about

34:06

that. Media

34:08

outlets also erroneously report this address

34:10

as the corner of South Whitney

34:12

and Greenwood, it should be noted.

34:16

Also on South Whitney Street, a

34:18

girl named Jennifer and her brother

34:20

Nathan both saw Elisa walking toward

34:23

Goodnight Avenue. The specific

34:25

memory included Nathan, kind of a

34:28

crush of Elisa's cleaning out the

34:30

family's RV and was reported the

34:32

very next day to police, as

34:35

was the Barker sightings. These

34:39

were not sightings from another

34:41

day, mistaken for the day

34:43

Elisa disappeared. Across

34:45

Goodnight Avenue from Keyburger Elementary School,

34:48

a boy also claims to have

34:50

seen Elisa that day, although his

34:52

mother didn't believe him and it

34:54

was not reported for months. A

34:58

middle aged man named Floyd

35:00

Jones also saw Elisa somewhere

35:02

around or between South 8th

35:05

and 9th streets. 9th

35:07

street being where the blood hound

35:09

Clementine lost her scent. From

35:12

the beginning of the investigation, it was

35:15

plopped because like I said, they never

35:17

searched the house. They never did shit.

35:19

Okay. They didn't search the house. Contrary

35:23

to those memories, Clementine and

35:25

her handler were in Aransas

35:28

Pass from Rockport by noon

35:30

the day following the disappearance

35:33

and they began their search at the

35:35

Roberson home. At some

35:37

point we have a lot of

35:39

police detectives at our house. They're

35:41

combing our house. They don't just go and stand

35:44

outside when there's a missing person. They

35:46

go inside, they do a search, they

35:49

look at things, they ask us if

35:51

we could give them some clothes of

35:53

Elisa and a hairbrush. They wanted like

35:55

her hair samples. They wanted some clothes.

35:58

Clementine, after all. had

36:00

to get Elisa's scent before she could

36:02

follow it. Like she

36:04

just vanished out of the blue and

36:07

broad daylight. No screaming, no fighting,

36:09

there was no jewelry that

36:12

she had on jewelry when she disappeared.

36:14

There was no jewelry found, nothing,

36:17

just straight up vanished,

36:19

whatever. Okay.

36:22

Debbie has a good point here, a

36:25

great one actually. If

36:28

someone was walking down the street

36:30

and a vehicle screeched to a

36:32

halt, the driver bolted out and

36:34

accosted the pedestrian who screamed bloody

36:36

murder as they were forced into

36:38

the car and then that car

36:40

sped off, all in broad

36:42

daylight on a Sunday when most folks

36:45

are off work. Chances

36:47

are at least one person,

36:49

probably more, would take notice

36:51

and perhaps call the police.

36:53

But there were no blood-curdling

36:56

screams reported the day Elisa

36:58

Roberson vanished. Nothing

37:00

had fallen off her person, something

37:02

that would have suggested a struggle

37:05

had occurred. However,

37:07

there's another side to that coin.

37:10

Most folks going about their day

37:13

would easily fail to notice much

37:15

at all about someone walking down

37:17

the street, a car stopping, the

37:19

pedestrian getting in, and the car

37:21

easing off down the road. The

37:24

driver of the vehicle was likely

37:26

someone the person walking knew and

37:28

trusted. Even

37:31

if that driver was well known

37:33

around town, it's plausible, if not

37:35

even more likely, that no one

37:37

would notice anything. Debbie,

37:42

to be fair, was only

37:44

ten years old when Elisa

37:46

went missing and because life experiences

37:48

inarguably twist memories, it is not

37:50

beyond the realm of possibility that

37:53

she simply isn't remembering the

37:55

events of that day correctly.

37:58

It's totally understandable. All of

38:00

us are susceptible to memory

38:02

fallibilities. But

38:04

Debbie Green's theory is that Marina

38:06

killed Elisa by accident while abusing

38:09

her, buried her in

38:11

the garage below her home, and

38:13

then had the grave covered with

38:15

concrete weeks later. On

38:17

or around August 15, 1989, she told me, which would

38:19

have been during the time the group

38:24

Caesar had tracking and

38:26

cadaver dogs swarming all

38:28

over Aransas Pass and

38:30

the Roberson Home all

38:32

documented occurrences. The

38:34

Texas Rangers also appeared to have

38:36

been involved in the investigation at

38:38

that point. The

38:41

official facts as far as the

38:43

investigation is concerned does not support

38:45

Debbie's theory, but she told

38:47

me there's a reason for that. The

38:50

cops, particularly Linda Thompson, were

38:52

involved in a cover up.

38:56

For this theory to be true, the

38:58

theory that Marina accidentally killed

39:00

Elisa, the conspiracy would have

39:02

to be massive. First,

39:05

Linda Thompson would have to be in on

39:07

it, of course. The cop

39:09

who once had to bring an

39:11

ex-police officer she knew to justice

39:13

for killing his wife. This

39:16

man, who they had to put behind

39:19

bars, in fact, was a very close

39:21

friend of the Thompsons. So

39:24

it seems a stretch she would cover

39:26

up the murder, or even second degree

39:28

murder, of a child. But

39:31

it wouldn't be just Linda. The

39:34

entire department would have had to

39:36

have been privy to the conspiracy.

39:39

Both the bloodhound Clementine's handler

39:41

and the several dogs the

39:43

group Caesar brought in to

39:45

search were either complicit or

39:47

simply couldn't do the job

39:49

they'd successfully done so many

39:51

times before. The

39:54

Texas Rangers would also have had a hand

39:56

in it, or were just

39:58

really bad at law enforcement. piercing. Also

40:02

in on the cover-up was Alyssa's adopted

40:04

father, the only father she ever knew,

40:06

Eugene Roberson, a

40:09

man who would drop an asshole who made

40:11

a woman feel uncomfortable as soon as it

40:13

happened. It seems

40:15

out of character for him to

40:17

help hide the accidental killing of

40:20

a girl he loved immeasurably, and

40:22

no one was pulling the wool over his

40:25

eyes either. Eugene was far

40:27

from a dummy. Twelve-year-old

40:29

Ruby, too, had to have played

40:32

her part, keeping this family secret

40:34

for thirty-four years now. Ten-year-old

40:37

Tony and five-year-old Alex would also

40:39

have to have played their part

40:41

in the conspiracy to hide the

40:43

truth of the death of the

40:45

big sister that always stuck up

40:47

for them, and always attempted to

40:50

protect them against Ralph Gonzalez's abuse.

40:53

Or perhaps the answer is

40:55

far simpler. Close

40:58

memories aren't only created by

41:01

our own experiences internalized, but

41:04

also by long-term loyalty we might

41:06

feel for others whether or not

41:08

they deserve it, and

41:10

the influence of paternal figures,

41:12

whether that influence is innocent,

41:14

or whether it's part of

41:16

a continual and relentless manipulation.

41:19

It might also be the

41:22

fact Debbie's father, Robert Earl

41:24

Green, known to most as

41:26

Bob, has been original investigators

41:28

Mike and Linda Thompson's suspect

41:31

number one since early in

41:33

the investigation. Our

41:36

main suspect and my husband and

41:38

I both, well, everybody in the

41:41

department that worked on it felt

41:43

the same way, but we could never

41:45

prove anything. I mean, I

41:47

can't tell you with that to a hundred

41:49

percent certainty that he's the one that committed

41:52

the crime, but I would say

41:54

99.5% would be in favor of it. So

41:58

we have to be real careful. If

42:01

I just had to put it in a nutshell,

42:03

Robert Greene is the key to all of it, I

42:06

think. We'll

42:09

pick things up from here on the next

42:11

episode of Gone Cold. If

42:14

you have any information about

42:17

the disappearance of Blanca Elisa

42:19

Roberson, please contact Tri-County Crime

42:21

Stoppers at 800-245-8477 or submit

42:23

a tip online at Tri-County

42:25

Crime Stoppers online tip

42:33

form, which we'll link to in

42:35

the episode's show notes. We'd

42:38

like to give a warm

42:40

and sincere thanks to Holly

42:43

Blanchard Hall, Linda and Mike

42:45

Thompson, Ruby Roberson Hall, and

42:47

Marina Quintana Tomchak for their

42:49

contributions to this episode. If

42:53

you like Gone Cold's mission to raise

42:55

awareness for unsolved homicides,

42:57

missing persons cases, and

42:59

other mysteries across Texas,

43:02

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43:04

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43:06

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43:08

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