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roberthalf.com today. Hello

0:38

and welcome to Happier, a podcast

0:40

where we talk about ideas, resources,

0:42

research, and strategies about how to

0:44

make our lives happier. This

0:47

week we'll talk about why it's helpful

0:49

to have challenging conversations while walking, and

0:52

Elizabeth and I will report about

0:54

what we learn from our No

0:56

Spend February. I'm

1:10

Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies

1:12

happiness, habits, the five senses, human

1:14

nature. I'm in my little

1:17

home office here in New York City,

1:19

and joining me today from LA is

1:21

my sister, Elizabeth Kraft. Elizabeth, we have

1:23

had many conversations, challenging and not so

1:25

challenging while walking. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft,

1:27

a TV writer and producer living in

1:29

LA. And yeah, Gretchen, that's

1:32

probably my favorite time to talk, is

1:34

while walking. Before we launch in, we

1:36

have a few updates from listeners. Yes,

1:38

this comes from Abigail. She said, I'm

1:41

listening to episode 470 and

1:43

you're suggesting trying some new food, music,

1:45

etc. by the age of 25. Well,

1:48

I'm more than 20 years older than that

1:50

cutoff age. And so I thought

1:52

of this as try it by 25, as in try

1:54

it before 2025 next year. If

1:59

you're an obliged. You're like me and eat out

2:01

or accountability. Maybe this is something you to

2:04

team up with a friend to do. My

2:06

plan is to find a smoke free billiards

2:08

hall here where we live in Japan and

2:10

take my husband's I've never played before and

2:13

I'm imagining it as a perfect ratio of

2:15

zen and competition. It's also on my twenty

2:17

four for twenty four list already. I love

2:20

that instead of fry it by twenty five,

2:22

it's try it by Twenty Twenty five. Yeah,

2:24

this. I can't believe we didn't think of

2:26

Agra. Yeah, absolutely. I'm and I wanted to

2:29

let people know. My paperback as coming.

2:31

A lot of people prefer to read

2:33

paperbacks or maybe just haven't gotten around

2:35

to buying your copy of Lies In

2:37

by Census yet. The paperback will hit

2:39

the shelves on April thirtieth. As always,

2:41

pre ordering really helps the books. I

2:44

really, really appreciate it. If you preorder

2:46

and as a little thank you to

2:48

people who do preorder, I am going

2:50

to give a secret chapter of the

2:52

book. There was. it's after that I

2:54

wrote. I. Worked hard on it.

2:57

I did some interesting research about it,

2:59

but it was ultimately taken another final

3:01

cut. So if you are intrigued by

3:03

the Zebra chapter is you get a

3:06

Happy cast.com/secrets After you can show that

3:08

you ordered the paperbacks and get the

3:10

downloads the that and and by the

3:12

way, if you've already bought the hardback,

3:15

there's a way to say Haredi but

3:17

the her back because I wouldn't want

3:19

somebody who bought the hardback. nothing against

3:21

us as they wanted sell. Some.

3:24

Mine yeah I love that

3:26

now. So this league are

3:28

try this at home. Suggestion

3:30

is to have a hard

3:33

conversation. While. Walking. So.

3:35

He if you have to have a stressful

3:37

summer season or you're talking about a difficult.

3:39

Subject. Try having that

3:41

conversation while you're walking with someone.

3:44

Yeah, Gregg, I know. For me,

3:46

it works so well to talk

3:48

while walking. You'll even remember that

3:50

when I started on my treadmill

3:52

does which you gave me. Best

3:54

gift ever. I would like to

3:57

walk while getting know speaking. That's

3:59

difficult from here in a very

4:01

active was it's different from what

4:03

we're talking about that it's the

4:05

same thing. Were walking makes it

4:08

easier to receive. War. I think

4:10

that not for all of the same reasons

4:12

but for many of the same reasons it

4:14

is effective. There's a part of it in

4:16

this. This would be true whether you are

4:18

like walking outside in nature which has his

4:20

own benefits or you're in your home office

4:23

or hinder treadmill is I think it gives

4:25

stress at outlet. yeah I and as a

4:27

you two were like we get kind of

4:29

physically as it had a kind of like

4:31

workshop and restless and high strung in that

4:33

way. And when you're walking that energy that

4:35

nervous, restless, uncomfortable energy has an outlet and

4:37

so it's not pulling up in your body

4:40

but it's just there's a way for it's

4:42

too late come out and I think that

4:44

that that helps his stay calm because that

4:46

electricity is in building up in an uncomfortable

4:48

way so that would work. That's probably part

4:50

of why that was helpful for his Us.

4:52

For. Sure, and one thing we should

4:55

point out with is Gretchen, is I

4:57

do think it's good to tell a

4:59

person ahead of time, yes, warn them.

5:01

Can talk about x subjects.

5:03

I'll walk today. Or while we walk

5:06

the dog just because you don't necessarily want to

5:08

just surprise somebody with a difficult conversation right where

5:10

they feel like they did know what was coming

5:12

and as probably get about the notes cause like

5:15

you know the the knows how yes Russell answer

5:17

and so you're like okay, I'm doing this knowing

5:19

that is who is Russell bread. But if you're

5:21

going on a walk, you don't want one person

5:24

to think like this is gonna be a pleasant

5:26

run around the neighborhood with our dog. And then

5:28

you're like okay, I'm hitting you with this big

5:30

subject that we've been avoiding. Yeah, so that's get

5:33

that. one hundred things. I also think that's. Useful

5:35

about it is that you're walking

5:37

side to side and it's interesting how

5:39

often people find it easier to talk

5:42

or to be revealing, are vulnerable or

5:44

persistent of ago conversations when they're

5:46

not face to face and what of

5:48

the places this often comes up is

5:51

and parenting advice where they often

5:53

say teenagers are often more, they will

5:55

disclose more, they'll be more confiding. They'll

5:57

have more difficult conversations when you're. Car

6:00

because there's something about. Your.

6:02

Sort of on your way someplace you're not

6:04

face to face. There's something else happening and

6:07

that that tends to be a really good

6:09

time to have conversations with teenagers. And so

6:11

I do think there's something you can fill

6:13

on the spot: a conceal confrontational. Some people

6:16

feel uncomfortable when someone's right up there, but

6:18

when you're walking, being side to side gives

6:20

you more of a feeling of. A

6:22

freedom and not being in the spotlight some

6:25

us I also says. It's very

6:27

subtle, but I think when you're working

6:29

together, you've made a decision to be

6:31

somewhere together. so it's like there's at

6:33

least something here that you agree on.

6:35

You know, if you're having a conversation

6:37

as conflict is it. It's like, well,

6:39

we're here to gather doing this, so

6:41

we're kind of already on the same

6:43

side. While any, you're moving together like

6:45

you're literally moving to the world together

6:47

and said that is also kind of

6:49

a harmonious pattern, I didn't even think

6:52

of that, but I think that that's

6:54

right, that that's that itself isn't of

6:56

a harmonious behavior. That may be

6:58

subtly supports a conversation where maybe are

7:00

pulling in different directions. Yeah and Gretchen

7:03

I mean I think people do can

7:05

find a it's not as i a

7:07

difficult conversation but you can find more

7:10

when you're walking like it's just a

7:12

hike with my friends and we often

7:14

call and hiking therapy and as we

7:17

talk about stuff going on in our

7:19

lives that we wouldn't necessarily talk about

7:21

like at a party or a dinner

7:23

out but when you're walking is ah

7:26

we find. Ourselves sharing all sorts of stuff,

7:28

That's so true. I find that as well

7:30

that I'm more likely to confide more. I

7:32

don't know why, maybe it just feels. They're.

7:35

Sort of of privacy and intimacy but

7:37

also an openness to it is it's

7:39

an environment where you feel good to

7:41

confide in. Also the thing about it

7:43

is if you're unaware together it's quiet.

7:45

I've been in that people are not

7:47

interrupting you and they're sort of the

7:49

focus of like we're doing this together

7:51

for a certain amount of time, But

7:53

you're also not trapped and I think

7:55

centers have a difficult conversation. You can

7:57

people sometimes feel the cluster. Further delays.

8:00

feel like they want to escape, but this

8:02

gives you this feeling of openness, and

8:04

yet they are kind of stuck with you.

8:07

So they can't just exit because you're like,

8:09

okay, we're on this walk together. And

8:11

so it's sort of this nice balance

8:14

of, okay, you're here with me and

8:16

you gotta write it out, but also

8:18

there's a feeling of openness. So I

8:20

think that creates an environment where, it's

8:23

not too much one direction or the

8:25

other. Yeah, and there's a natural conclusion

8:27

usually to walk. You're doing a

8:29

certain, whether it's a prime and canyon, or

8:31

you have your loop around the neighborhood with

8:33

your dog, whatever it is. And

8:36

so then you're not getting also stuck

8:38

in the conversation on and on and

8:40

on. It's like, okay,

8:43

now the walk is done and we can

8:45

conclude this. No, I think it's often very

8:47

helpful to have a natural sense of the

8:49

pacing of a conversation. So again, sometimes people

8:51

will do this in a restaurant because

8:53

in a restaurant, there's a natural pace to a

8:56

restaurant meal. And so you know that it's

8:58

not gonna be three hours unless you're at a

9:00

super fancy restaurant. And so that gives you

9:02

a sense of pacing. And again, with the hiking,

9:04

it's like we're moving toward a conclusion. And so

9:06

if it's an uncomfortable conversation, people know you're

9:08

not gonna try to keep me talking about this

9:11

for six hours, because at a certain point we're

9:13

gonna reach the end. And I do think

9:15

that that often helps. And maybe that's

9:17

why the car ride is good too with the teenagers.

9:19

They know, okay, we're headed to the mall.

9:22

And when we get to the mall, we'll get out

9:24

and we'll do something different. But in this period,

9:26

I feel comfortable having this conversation, because

9:28

I know that it will come to a natural end. It's not just gonna

9:30

be as long as you wanna talk to me about it,

9:32

mom. Which might be a lot much longer

9:34

than they want. Longer, yes. Yes,

9:37

so I think there's, and then there's this,

9:39

if you're outside, it's just helpful to be

9:41

outside. The fresh air, if you

9:43

have sunlight, the sunlight in our eyes gives

9:45

us a boost. It gives us energy. It's

9:48

good for our bodies. If we're moving that

9:50

itself, it gives us more energy, but it

9:52

also calms us down. It boosts our mood.

9:54

It boosts even things like our immunity. If

9:57

we're out and about, we're seeing things we're experiencing in

9:59

the world. all the five senses

10:01

coming into play, fresh air, all

10:04

these things. There's so much

10:06

about it that could contribute

10:08

to making a difficult conversation

10:11

go more easily for both people. So let

10:13

us know if you do try this at

10:15

home and how walking during a challenging conversation

10:17

works for you. Have you done it in

10:19

the past? Are you going to try it

10:22

in the future? Let us know on Instagram,

10:24

threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an email at

10:26

podcast at gretchenrueven.com. Or as always, you can

10:28

go to the show notes. This is happiercast.com

10:31

slash four seven two for

10:33

everything related to this episode. Coming up,

10:35

we have a pairing hat. The first

10:37

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11:48

now for a happiness hack and this is

11:50

from a listener who is using one of

11:52

our favorite strategies. There are 21 strategies of

11:54

habit change. Some are more popular

11:56

and more universal than others and the strategy

11:59

of pairing is Very popular.

12:01

Yes, this comes from Alison. She

12:03

says, thought you might like to

12:05

know I'm utilizing two of your

12:07

suggested strategies for building better habits.

12:10

One, the strategy of pairing. I have one

12:12

game on my phone, which is a crossword

12:15

game. I now play it

12:17

only with my non-dominant hand. I

12:19

use just my left hand. And

12:22

if I wanna play, I must

12:24

use my left hand. This helps

12:26

me tap into benefits of using

12:28

my quote wrong hand. Two,

12:31

simultaneously, this means I'm using the

12:33

strategy of inconvenience because it requires

12:35

more focused energy and more effort

12:37

to use my left hand to

12:39

play this game. I'm less likely

12:41

to spend too much time doing

12:43

it. Clever. Yeah, this is really

12:45

interesting. She's like inserted the strategy

12:47

of inconvenience into the strategy of

12:49

pairing. Yeah. In a very elegant way.

12:51

And I think this is a great idea. It's like, yeah, you

12:53

can play that game if you want, but it's gonna be harder.

12:55

Yeah. So again, you're not saying no to yourself.

12:59

but by adding a hurdle to it and

13:02

using the strategy of pairing as a way

13:04

to make that hurdle stick, it's just making

13:06

it that much more challenging and therefore it's

13:08

that much easier to put it down and

13:10

do something else. So people often say like,

13:12

I don't have enough time to change all

13:14

these habits. It's like, sometimes they don't take

13:16

any time, any additional time. It's just how

13:18

you set something up. So

13:20

very, very clever. Yes. And

13:22

then, Gretz, we have a bonus hack from Lena.

13:25

She says, I'm listening to episode

13:27

466 right now in a car. And I just

13:29

got to the part where you were talking about

13:31

what to do with conference lanyards.

13:34

My mother has come up with a great

13:36

solution to this one. She and her friends

13:38

love to go camping in nature and also

13:40

in music festivals. And she

13:42

clips little flashlights to the lanyards so

13:44

that everyone can have a flashlight around

13:46

their neck and not have trouble finding

13:48

their way back to the tent or

13:51

out to the bathroom during the trip. Things

13:53

have a tendency to get dirty, broken,

13:55

or lost to camping trips. So they

13:57

sort of organically get used up. She

14:00

restocks with my new conference lanyards

14:02

every year. I mean,

14:04

Gretchen, fantastic idea. Fantastic idea. And I

14:07

can imagine someone doing this if they

14:09

walk their dogs when the nights are

14:11

really long and you just wanna have,

14:14

slip it around your neck or stick it

14:16

in the car. So if you need it,

14:19

I would never have thought of my conference

14:21

lanyards as a flashlight vehicle, but what a

14:23

great idea. I love it. I love this

14:25

idea. Awesome. That's great. And now for

14:28

a know yourself better, Elizabeth,

14:30

what did we learn about

14:32

ourselves from NoSpend February? And

14:35

you double down on NoSpend

14:37

February, right? Right. Because we

14:40

also did NoSpend February over

14:42

on Happier in Hollywood. Sarah and I did it

14:44

and we'll talk about it there as well. So

14:47

yeah, I was all about NoSpend

14:49

February. Of course Gretchen, we're

14:51

so lucky that we're able to choose

14:53

to do a NoSpend February, that

14:55

it is not something we're forced

14:58

to do because of the circumstance.

15:00

Right. Some people aren't spending because they don't

15:02

have any money. And so we're very, very fortunate that this

15:04

was our choice to make. But Elizabeth, we

15:06

did do this and it was

15:08

a very interesting experience. Neither one of

15:11

us had ever done anything like this

15:13

before. So it's always interesting to deprive

15:15

ourselves of something that's customary because

15:18

I think it is a really good way

15:20

to know yourself because by briefly depriving ourselves

15:22

of something, we're more aware

15:24

of how much time and energy it

15:26

takes, how much mental

15:29

effort we're devoting to it. And

15:31

it's a good way to reset our tolerances because

15:33

sometimes I think when we deprive ourselves of something,

15:35

then when we come back to it, we

15:38

might do it less or we might do it in

15:40

a different way because we've learned what it's like to

15:42

give it up altogether. Anna makes us aware of our

15:44

patterns because a lot of times we're not

15:47

even aware of what we're doing. I think that's very

15:49

true with spending. That's why

15:51

people who help with finances always tell

15:53

people to look at their budget and

15:56

actually look what they're spending money on

15:59

because often you... You don't even realize it.

16:01

You don't realize it. Well, and also

16:03

our approach this month reminds me of

16:05

the abstainer-moderator, a distinction which

16:07

we've talked about before. And people are

16:10

different, even the same individual probably is

16:12

a mix of abstainer and moderator depending

16:14

on different behavior. But the idea is

16:16

that for an abstainer with certain temptations,

16:18

it's easier to give something up altogether.

16:21

Sometimes it's just easier to say none,

16:23

never, no, and

16:25

just cross something off the list altogether rather than to

16:27

try to be moderate, which is when you say, oh,

16:30

I'm gonna do it less, or I'm gonna

16:32

do it sometimes, or I'm gonna do it

16:34

some days. For some things, there can be

16:36

a lot of decision fatigue around that, there's

16:38

a lot of having to, like, now, later,

16:40

today, tomorrow, get this count with moderation. And

16:42

so sometimes it's just easier to do something

16:45

just to give it up altogether. And there

16:47

is something kind of, I

16:49

don't know that it's exciting, but there's something really

16:51

interesting about just stopping something altogether. So I think

16:53

for both of us, we were sort of interested

16:56

in going all the way rather than, let's

16:59

just do it a little bit. That wouldn't have

17:01

been as interesting as just trying to have no

17:03

spend February, like doing a very dramatic, bold step.

17:05

Sometimes the bold step is more

17:07

interesting and engaging than something that somebody

17:09

might be like, well, it's more realistic.

17:11

You're like, yeah, but it's not as

17:13

much fun. Well, Gretch, I learned, and

17:15

I mentioned this when we started, that

17:17

I really do spend a lot

17:20

of time browsing online

17:22

stores, whether mostly sales,

17:24

but also not sales too.

17:27

And it was really nice to save a

17:29

lot of time because part of my thing

17:31

was when I get these emails of like,

17:34

oh, there's a sale here, a sale there,

17:36

I'm not even gonna look, I'm just gonna delete

17:38

the email. So I did realize

17:41

that I saved a lot of time, but

17:44

I will say not doing it made

17:46

me wanna do it. By

17:49

the end of the month, I

17:51

was really wanting to buy stuff.

17:55

Well, that's interesting because often you

17:57

are more of a browser than you're a buyer.

18:00

You're kind of an under buyer, but you're

18:02

somebody who likes the poking around. Well, maybe

18:04

I actually want to just browse. And

18:07

if I browse, I won't

18:09

actually buy, but I have that desire.

18:11

Maybe now that you say it, maybe

18:13

my desire really is to browse. But

18:15

like I do feel like going shopping

18:18

like March 1st, you know, I'm like,

18:20

Oh, I can go shopping

18:22

now. And I never go shopping. Now

18:24

will I actually go doubtful? Well,

18:27

that's see, that's so interesting. That the browsing

18:30

itself is an activity, but it's interesting because

18:32

you're saying the browsing is the activity that

18:34

you want. So if you were worried about

18:36

not wanting to shop, you could

18:38

say, okay, I'll let myself browse,

18:40

but I won't let myself buy. But if you're

18:42

saying that one of the things that you enjoyed

18:45

saving was the time, right? Then you are spending

18:47

the time on it. But if you value that

18:49

time, then it's like, well, this is an activity

18:51

that I like. And so maybe the thing is

18:53

like, this is actually a legitimate

18:55

activity that I'm going to say, this is a

18:58

thing I like to do, just like you might

19:00

like to play Tetris on your phone, or you

19:02

might like to watch a TV show or read

19:04

a book. It's like, this is just like a

19:06

little activity I like to do during my day.

19:08

Because I think it's kind of a nonactivity. You

19:11

know, I think it's sort of an unclassified nonactivity

19:13

rolling. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe it is something that

19:15

you enjoy, because otherwise I would say maybe you

19:17

just delete all the newsletters so that you don't

19:19

even see it. You don't even, but maybe that's

19:21

an activity that you like. So you like getting

19:23

the emails. Well, you know, Gretchen, it did occur

19:26

to me this month to do that, to

19:28

unsubscribe from all these places. And I did

19:30

not. Okay. I was like, well, I want

19:32

to get these when the month is over.

19:34

So I need to think about it. I'm

19:36

not sure where I land. It's an activity

19:38

that you enjoy. Yeah. It's funny though, that

19:40

it is, it's the looking and not the

19:42

buying. So it's, and this reminds me, this

19:44

is one thing that really surprised me when

19:46

I heard about it, which is that

19:49

what some people do is they'll go on and they'll fill

19:51

up their cart and then they'll

19:53

just abandon it. I do that all

19:55

the time. See, that's so interesting. Apparently

19:57

a huge percentage of abandoned carts. People

20:00

never intended to buy them. It's just like

20:02

people like the kind of choosing and the

20:04

picking and the curating, but

20:06

it's a pleasure completely separate from buying. I

20:08

think that this is really under

20:10

understood. It's not widely understood this

20:13

aspect because it

20:15

isn't acquisition. The point

20:17

is not to get the stuff. It's a different

20:19

kind of pleasure. But so you

20:22

felt like doing this almost made you wanna

20:24

buy more because you're not browsing. You're like,

20:26

I actually wanna pull the trigger on the

20:28

cart. I kind of do, but maybe now

20:30

that I could pull the trigger, I won't

20:32

feel the need. So I will

20:35

see how it plays out. Actually follows

20:37

through. Yes. Right. Because

20:39

you are kind of an under buyer. So I could see

20:41

you just feeling like, it's not worth it. Yeah, kind of.

20:43

Now that I can do it. So

20:46

what do you think the long-term

20:48

consequences, if any, will be of

20:50

doing this exercise? Well, I mean,

20:53

one thing is with the ordering food,

20:55

that was my other big error. Right,

20:57

yes. What about the ordering food? That

21:00

was much harder. And I have to

21:02

say, I broke my promise not to

21:04

order food several times. Now

21:07

I still ordered much less than

21:09

I normally would. So I really

21:11

did realize, wow, I do this

21:13

way too much. I

21:16

knew it, but then again, looking at

21:19

my patterns, it really confirmed it. So

21:21

I'm really glad that I did that.

21:23

And I'm gonna make a concerted effort

21:25

to order less often moving

21:28

forward. So it helped in certain

21:30

areas, but it was less helpful in

21:32

other areas. Or maybe it raised intriguing

21:34

questions for me to ponder. Okay,

21:36

interesting. How about you Gretchen? How did

21:38

it go for you? Well, one thing

21:40

for me is I realized that I

21:42

do buy a lot of books very

21:44

impulsively. So I always check the library.

21:47

Unlike you Elizabeth, if it's a book that I haven't

21:49

read, I really do want a physical book. I don't

21:51

want an audio book or an ebook. I want a

21:54

physical book. My library has it and I belong to

21:56

a great library. I'll get it from the library.

21:58

And I love when I can get it from the library because it, I could

22:00

just get anything from the library, look at it for one

22:02

second, and then if I don't like it, I just return

22:04

it. And so I always try the library first. But

22:07

a lot of things aren't at the library. And

22:09

I will, I'm like, and I don't even remember

22:11

why. Like I get these books and I'm like,

22:13

why was I thinking it's like somebody recommended it?

22:15

And so I think that I will end up

22:17

buying fewer books because I'm not buying them so

22:19

impulsively. But like here's an example of

22:21

a book, how I would have done it. So I

22:23

was reading a book which I highly recommend called

22:26

Missing May by Cynthia Ryland. Children's Literature

22:28

books, so good. Highly recommend. And

22:31

the main character mentioned loving

22:33

the work of Phyllis Whitney. And what

22:35

I've learned is if in a novel

22:37

a character mentions an author, it's because

22:39

the author of the novel that I'm

22:41

reading simply cannot resist drive by praise.

22:43

And so I'm like, who is

22:45

Phyllis Whitney? Well, it turns out she was

22:48

this hugely popular author who had written many

22:50

books and she twice won an award from

22:52

the Mystery Writers of America for Best Juvenile Novel.

22:54

So I'm like, I must read

22:56

Mystery of the Haunted Pool. My library didn't have it.

22:59

So now it's on my wish list. And

23:01

so in the past I would have just ordered it and probably

23:03

by the time it came I'm like, why am I reading Mystery

23:05

of the Haunted Pool? I don't really like mysteries. But now because

23:08

I sort of have this delay and I have a note on

23:10

my list, I think when I get

23:12

it I will remember it better. So I think

23:14

it will slow me down. And help

23:17

me remember why I've gotten certain books. And

23:19

then was there other stuff that you would have

23:21

bought normally and you went, wait, it's gonna spend

23:23

February, I'm not gonna buy this. I

23:26

saw an ad on YouTube which I think a lot

23:28

of people have seen for a fire blanket. And I

23:30

was just like, this thing looks amazing. And I did

23:32

spend a lot of time like, are these things real

23:34

or are they not real? Kind of hard to tell.

23:37

But I didn't buy one, but I think I will buy one. I

23:40

definitely would have bought it before. Right on

23:42

the spot. I also heard about these things.

23:44

Sungloves, I was in a store in REI.

23:47

And they had sunglasses which are basically

23:49

finger-tivless gloves. Like I wear all

23:51

the winter but you do it for sun. And I

23:53

don't like the feeling of sunscreen on my hands. And

23:55

so I was like, ooh, sunglasses. I didn't know this

23:57

was a thing, you know, just to protect your hands.

24:00

from Sun, but I didn't buy them because it

24:02

no spent ever. And I'm like, do I really need this?

24:04

Because I have those shirts where

24:06

you pull the sleeves on your hand, I'm like,

24:08

you know, is this just sort of like an

24:10

overly particular thing? Or maybe I really would use

24:12

them. I'm gonna wait for the summer though. And

24:15

wait to see do I think I need these?

24:18

And then, okay, this is an issue. Okay,

24:20

so I'm trying to do watercolor. I am

24:22

doing watercolor this year. It's on my 24

24:24

for 24 list and I'm doing it. But

24:26

as I think often happens with

24:29

people, my desire to buy supplies

24:31

and to sign up for online

24:33

courses and get

24:35

material has kind of outstripped my practice.

24:37

And so I'm like, I would like

24:39

to try a Chinese brush. I would

24:41

like to try a water sprayer. I

24:43

would like to try gouache, but I

24:45

didn't get them because of no spent

24:48

February. And so I think this reminded

24:50

me, what you need to do is

24:52

focus on doing watercolor. And then if

24:54

you're like, oh wow, I would be

24:56

very excited to try a Chinese brush,

24:59

get it, but make sure that that is

25:01

supporting frequent practice of painting and not like,

25:04

oh, I'm gonna have the fun of getting

25:06

the supplies. And like with the

25:08

water sprayer, I really wanted the water sprayer. And

25:10

then I looked around the apartment and I found,

25:12

we had a little bottle of, you know when

25:14

you buy a set of glasses, sometimes they give

25:17

you bottle lens, cleanser and a spray bottle. And

25:19

it was almost used up. There was just a little teeny part

25:21

in the bottom. So I just washed that out. And I'm like,

25:24

so this is a good example that if you don't buy something

25:26

right away, you may find that you already

25:28

have it or you have something that could work just

25:30

as well. So that was again,

25:32

like having that delay taught me, I

25:35

don't need to buy this. I can repurpose it

25:37

from something that I already have. Yes, that is

25:39

a whole section of this, which is buying

25:42

a replacement for something that you already have.

25:44

Like that happened with you, right? Yeah, with

25:46

a three hole punch. So I used to

25:48

have like this giant electric professional three hole

25:50

punch and then it broke and I didn't

25:53

need it. And I had like

25:55

a few pages that I wanted to punch and I thought,

25:57

oh, don't we have one lying around? You

25:59

know, in the past, I might have been like, oh, I'll just

26:01

pick one up at the drug store. But now I'm like, no,

26:03

I really need to find it. And there were like four places

26:05

where it could have been, and I found

26:07

it. So again, it made me

26:09

take the time and the effort to

26:11

make sure that I really needed it. And

26:14

in fact, I did not. So that was

26:16

a good lesson. Always really, really, really look

26:18

if you think there's any chance that

26:21

you might already have something that could

26:23

be useful. And Gretchen, in an upcoming

26:25

episode, we're going to share what listeners

26:27

discovered about themselves in No Spend February.

26:30

So everybody, let us know what you

26:32

discovered about yourself. Yes, absolutely. It's going

26:34

to be fascinating to hear. And also,

26:36

if you're interested in this subject, there's

26:39

a wonderful essay by Ann Patchett. We

26:41

love Ann Patchett. We interviewed her on

26:44

a book club episode, episode 283. Her

26:47

essay is called My Year of No Shopping.

26:49

It was a New York Times opinion piece,

26:51

and it also appears in her essay collection,

26:53

These Precious Days. So if you want to

26:55

go deep into No Spend, that's a great

26:57

essay about it. And now

27:00

for a listener question. This

27:02

is an interesting question related to the

27:04

happier trifecta. Yes. And if you don't

27:06

know about the happier trifecta and the

27:08

annual challenge, listen to episode Okay,

27:12

so this comes from Jonathan, who asks,

27:14

I'm following along with hashtag write 24

27:17

and 24. This has actually been

27:19

a breakthrough for me because I've always thought if

27:21

I can't write for five hours, I shouldn't bother

27:23

to write. And then I can never

27:26

find the time. Now that I'm writing for

27:28

24 minutes with permission to stop at

27:30

minute 25, I'm much more consistent. The

27:33

problem is that sometimes I don't have any

27:35

good ideas, so my writing isn't very good

27:37

and I end up editing it a lot

27:39

or even cutting it later. How

27:41

do I keep my quality higher so

27:44

this time is spent on my best

27:46

writing? Well, Jonathan, that is the million

27:48

dollar question. Yes. Said

27:50

every writer always forever.

27:53

A lot of time writing is bad.

27:56

Yes. Yes. We

27:58

all writing is. is rewriting. Writing

28:00

is just- And cutting. Writing

28:02

is rewriting and deleting. And writing is

28:04

being frustrating because you're not having any

28:07

good ideas. Yeah. So

28:09

you're doing everything right, John, up there. Yeah,

28:12

there it is. Yeah, you gotta get through

28:14

the bad to get to the good. So

28:16

just keep doing your 24 minutes a day,

28:19

and it's okay. You

28:22

don't always have good ideas. But also more

28:24

good ideas tend to come the more you're

28:26

writing. So putting in the bad ideas often

28:28

is what allows you to have the good

28:30

ideas. And if you're not doing it at

28:32

all, then you have neither good nor bad

28:34

ideas. And so just understand it's part of

28:36

the process. Yep. Great

28:39

question. Yes. All right, Gretsch.

28:41

Coming up, I have a book group to

28:43

merit at first this week. LinkedIn

28:52

isn't just another job board. LinkedIn has

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a vast network of more than a

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billion professionals, which makes it the best

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place to hire because it

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gives you access to professionals you can't find

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anywhere else. And, you know,

29:06

Elizabeth, I now work with a

29:08

team and hiring the right people

29:10

is so important. It's maybe the

29:12

most important thing. And LinkedIn makes

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the process of identifying and hiring

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people easy and intuitive. Hiring is

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easy when you have that many

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quality candidates. It's so easy, in

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hours. And

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LinkedIn is constantly finding ways to

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make the process easier. They even

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your job for free

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at linkedin.com/Gretchen. That's linkedin.com/Gretchen

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on vet bills. So you can worry. less

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about how that feels. This

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show is sponsored by BetterHelp. What's the first thing you do if you

30:32

had an extra hour in your day? Would you go for a run

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30:36

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30:57

one way to really figure out

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your priorities in life is to

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go to therapy. I

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That's betterhelp, help.com/ Gretchen

31:45

Rubin. Okay, Elizabeth, it's

31:47

time for Demerits and Gold Stars and

31:49

this week is your turn to talk

31:51

about a demerit. Okay, Gretchen, I think

31:53

anyone who's ever been in a book

31:56

group might relate to this demerit. I'm

31:58

in my kid-lit West group. So

32:00

we read Kid Lit. And

32:02

this session, I did not

32:05

read the book selection in

32:07

a timely manner. I

32:09

had weeks to do it. I ordered

32:11

the book, I got the book. I

32:14

had it sitting right in front of me. I wanted

32:16

to read it and I just kept thinking,

32:18

oh, I have so much time, I'll read it

32:20

closer so that it's fresh. And

32:23

I didn't read it in a timely manner and

32:25

I did not get it read by the time

32:27

I was supposed to. And that's just

32:30

unforced error, Grudge. Yeah, well, we've all done

32:32

it. Yes, we have. You feel like you've

32:34

got so much time and then the time

32:36

runs out or you lose it. Sometimes I'm

32:38

just like, I know I have it, where

32:40

is it? Yeah, so that's my

32:43

demerit. So hopefully saying it out loud

32:45

will keep me from doing it again.

32:47

But also our, the Kid Lit East,

32:49

our motto is no guilt. Yeah,

32:51

same. And so it's always like, come if you've

32:53

missed for a year, come if you've never read

32:55

the book. Like no guilt, just come. Yes, we

32:57

have the same motto. All

33:00

right, Grudge, what is your gold star? I

33:02

want to give a gold star to wool socks because

33:05

my feet are cold and

33:07

it's cold here in New York City. And

33:10

I was just wearing my usual notes to

33:12

sell socks, which I love from Kansas City,

33:14

these great cotton socks. And my

33:16

feet were cold, my feet were cold, my feet were cold. And

33:18

then I thought, you know what? I think your feet are warmer

33:20

if you wear wool socks. So I pulled out a pair of

33:22

wool socks that I had. Didn't have to go out and buy

33:24

them, which I could not have done. And

33:26

guess what? Wool socks are warmer. Ah,

33:29

revelation. Yes, and I was like, revelation.

33:31

It's like, do I need to keep

33:33

learning the same lesson over and over?

33:36

Yes, indeed I do. And so here it

33:38

is again. This is why there are wool

33:40

socks in my sock drawer. Why

33:42

am I not wearing them? I do not

33:44

know. But now they are in the

33:46

rotation for the rest of the winter.

33:48

So thank you, wool socks. Yeah, wool

33:51

socks. The resource for this week. Again,

33:53

the paperback of Life in Five Senses is

33:56

coming out. I'm so excited. If you are

33:58

interested in pre-ordering the book. and

34:00

you're interested in reading the secret chapter,

34:03

go to happiercast.com/secret chapter.

34:05

And that's no face,

34:07

no capitalizations to secret

34:09

chapter one word. Alyssa,

34:12

what are we reading? I am

34:14

reading Catherine Called Birdie by Karen

34:16

Cushman, my kid lit book group

34:18

selection grudge. And I just finished,

34:21

so I haven't started a new

34:23

book yet, Missing May by Cynthia

34:25

Ryland. And

34:27

that's it for this episode of happier. Remember

34:29

to try this at home. Try having a

34:31

tough conversation while walking. Let us know if

34:34

you tried it and if it worked for

34:36

you. Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck

34:38

Reed, and everyone at Catons 13. Get

34:41

in touch Gretchen's on Instagram, threads,

34:43

Facebook, and TikTok at Gretchen Rubin.

34:46

And I'm on Instagram and threads at

34:48

Liz Craft. And as always, here

34:51

comes the reminder, rate, review,

34:54

follow, unpause, recommend to

34:57

a friend. All

34:59

these things really, really help to

35:01

let new listeners know about the show.

35:03

Until next week, I'm Elizabeth Craft. And

35:06

I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us, Onward

35:08

and Upward. Right,

35:16

there is one thing that the whole

35:18

walking well stressful conversation doesn't work for.

35:21

And that is getting plane tickets, because

35:23

it's hard to get plane tickets while

35:25

walking. And I find

35:27

that to be very stressful to talk about. In

35:31

fact, I think all calendar logistics,

35:34

where it's like, you get your calendar, I get my

35:36

calendar, like, let's go through our calendars. That you have

35:38

to be sitting down for. That is true. So that

35:41

is the whole category of

35:43

painful conversations. Yes, it

35:46

doesn't work. It does not work. From the Onward

35:48

Project. you