0:00

In the Blood, hosted by Ben

0:02

McKenzie of Southland in Gotham. He

0:06

had an alibi, he didn't

0:08

have a violent history, and it seemed

0:10

almost impossible to imagine the crime could have

0:12

been committed by just one man. But

0:15

Ronald Trumbulli's DNA test, performed in

0:17

the infancy of DNA testing, was

0:19

a match. Is it

0:21

possible he was innocent of the Texas triple

0:23

murder he was convicted of? The

0:26

crime took place in 1985, but it echoed across decades,

0:30

through multiple trials and DNA retests

0:32

and the discovery of new evidence

0:34

all the way into modern times.

0:37

In the Blood presents all the

0:39

evidence, including evidence jurors were not

0:42

privy to, and asks you, the

0:44

audience, for your verdict. All

0:46

episodes are available now, on Apple

0:48

Podcasts, Spotify, and anywhere you listen

0:51

to podcasts. How

1:04

do you know something happened with certainty? Unless

1:07

you saw it happen with your own eyes, you

1:09

really don't. But in

1:12

our day-to-day lives, the stakes of

1:14

knowing, of absolutely knowing, are

1:16

not as severe as a murder trial. In

1:19

a murder trial, the decision will

1:21

affect lives forever, the lives

1:24

of the victim's family and the defendant and

1:26

their family. What do you

1:28

trust? Science? Yesterday's

1:31

science can be invalidated by today's

1:34

scientific breakthrough. Witnesses?

1:36

Unless they saw the crime occur directly,

1:39

and sometimes even if they did, witnesses

1:41

can be biased or hampered by issues

1:43

of recall. And what

1:46

happens if some of the evidence strongly

1:48

suggests innocence, but some of

1:50

it strongly suggests guilt? What

1:52

if everything in your gut tells you the verdict

1:55

should be a certain way, but

1:57

the evidence seems to say otherwise? How

2:00

do you really know? How

2:03

can you know? For sure. In

2:07

1985, in Texas, three teenagers

2:09

were brutally murdered. There

2:12

were multiple credible suspects with criminal

2:14

histories, potential motives, and connections to

2:16

the victims. But only

2:18

one man was ultimately convicted of the crime. Ronald

2:21

Trimboli. It would

2:23

take three trials to convict him, the

2:26

third of which would involve a brand new

2:28

technology for investigating crime. A

2:30

DNA test. Ronald

2:33

Trimboli had no history of violent crime.

2:36

Though the only theory of his motive was

2:38

sexual, the charge of sexual assault in the

2:40

crime was ultimately dropped. And

2:42

the timeline and circumstantial evidence that pointed to

2:45

his guilt would be challenged

2:47

by subsequent reporting by credible journalists. But

2:49

that DNA test? It

2:52

was a match. So here's the

2:54

question. Is it

2:56

possible Ronald Trimboli's DNA could match

2:59

and he could be innocent of the crime? I'm

3:03

Ben McKenzie. This is In the Blood. Oh,

3:08

they're sweet children. They

3:10

came down to the house, they played, sat

3:12

on the porch, if it rained,

3:15

waiting for the bus to go to school. That

3:17

was the way most of the neighbors thought

3:19

of 14-year-old Danielle and 12-year-old Renee Lemire. Their

3:22

bodies were discovered in their West Arlington home

3:24

last night, along with that of a house

3:26

guest, 17-year-old John Bradley. All had

3:29

been stabbed to death. Apparently, they had been bound

3:31

and gagged before they were murdered. When

3:37

we first met, and it

3:39

really is, you know,

3:41

I did, I told him, my dad

3:43

was being tried for murder of three

3:45

teenagers and he didn't do it. And

3:48

that's how we started that conversation. When

3:52

we sat at that booth. When

3:55

I first met her, we were sitting in

3:57

a booth at the pizza joint. and

4:01

just not even knowing

4:03

each other yet. Introductions, and she

4:05

just breaks right into her

4:08

father's case and what's going on with her

4:10

father. Well, in the beginning, I was like

4:12

anybody else. You know, it was a

4:14

sad story. It

4:17

was a tough spot for her dad to be in. You

4:21

know, she said he didn't do it, but you

4:23

know, who am I to judge that? I

4:26

have no clue. That's Mark

4:28

and Lisa Dufour. Lisa is

4:30

Ronald's daughter and Mark is her husband. I'm

4:33

Dan Benmore. I produce this podcast, spending the

4:35

better part of a year learning everything I

4:37

could about this story. When

4:40

Lisa and Mark met for the first time,

4:42

she already had the dark cloud of her

4:44

father's situation hanging over her head. And

4:47

Mark would wind up taking it on with her

4:49

far more than he could have initially anticipated. I'm

4:52

playing devil's advocate. You

4:54

know, the same old story of the cops

4:56

wouldn't do this. They wouldn't

4:58

have said that this was a this and they wouldn't arrest him

5:00

if they didn't have evidence the whole bit. I

5:06

had the same reaction as Mark when I

5:08

first heard this story. I assumed Lisa's father was

5:11

probably guilty, especially if there was a DNA test that was a match. I

5:15

assumed like any good daughter, Lisa

5:18

just wanted to believe the best about her dad.

5:20

But then I started reading, interviewing documents and

5:24

I started talking to people. And like many others, the

5:27

story just wouldn't let me go. So I

5:29

went to Arlington, Texas and

5:31

I stood outside the house where the crime took place, the

5:35

same house from the crime scene video and news

5:37

reports, which hasn't changed much in

5:39

almost 40 years. And

5:42

like so many other things, I'd see, hear

5:44

and learn about in this case, something

5:46

about it just didn't sit right with me. And

5:49

I wanted to understand why. I'm

5:53

standing right outside the house where

5:55

the murders took place. It's

6:00

incredible how close this house is to

6:02

other houses. Less

6:05

than a stone's throw. Six

6:08

feet, eight feet. Not

6:11

far at all. This

6:13

is a dense neighborhood. The

6:16

houses are all close to each other. I

6:20

can understand how something

6:22

like this could have happened here without

6:25

everybody in the surrounding houses hearing it.

6:30

Doesn't appear to have changed since 1985.

6:34

Looks the way it probably did back

6:37

then. Today,

6:45

it's sunny. So

6:47

many years later. You

6:51

just wouldn't want to believe that something like

6:53

this could happen in a neighborhood like this.

6:57

It looks so nice. It looks like anybody's neighborhood.

7:02

Looks like my neighborhood. What

7:06

was Arlington, Texas like in 1985? In

7:10

1985, Arlington was mainly a bedroom community.

7:14

Most people that lived

7:16

here would commute to Dallas or Fort

7:18

Worth to work. As far as the

7:20

entertainment industry at that time, there were

7:22

six flags over Texas and there was

7:25

the Texas Rangers and baseball. You're

7:27

looking at a population in 85 of around 150,000

7:30

people and it's grown to over

7:34

400,000 today. So

7:36

it was in the beginnings of

7:39

that growth and the tax incentives

7:41

that Texas had put up for

7:43

businesses to relocate. American

7:46

Airlines came from New York. The Boy

7:48

Scouts of America came from New York.

7:50

Other companies came and Arlington was kind

7:52

of a back dab in the middle

7:54

of Dallas or Fort Worth. civic

8:00

neighborhood and house where the crime took place

8:02

in 1985. Maybe it was

8:04

different then, but Lisa was here. So

8:06

I asked her. All

8:08

right, so we're right next to the

8:10

house where the murders took place. Right.

8:12

And what did this what

8:14

was different about this back in 1985? Hardly

8:18

anything's different. The

8:20

only thing that's a little different

8:23

is not as well

8:25

taken care of. It was it

8:27

was like the grass and

8:30

it wasn't so you know,

8:32

but it's not different. There's nothing different.

8:36

Nothing at all. And this is

8:38

the front door. So this is where would

8:42

be the front and then

8:44

that is the girl's bedroom that

8:47

window right there. First bedroom

8:49

was where Danielle that was

8:51

found in the first window. Before

8:54

any bodies were found the night before

8:56

the crime when everyone in the

8:59

home was still alive and well, they

9:01

got a strange visit in the middle of the

9:03

night from a neighbor down the street. Ronald Trimboli

9:06

Ronald's infant son was sick. He said his

9:08

phone was not working and he told the

9:10

girls mother Joanne. He needed to use the

9:12

telephone to call his doctor's answering service. Remember

9:15

this was 1985 Ronald

9:17

came by the house first at around 2 a.m. and

9:20

then at around 5 a.m. This

9:22

unusual detail would not go unnoticed

9:25

by Detective Jim Ford one

9:27

of the investigators who worked on the case. My

9:30

name is Jim Edward Ford and

9:33

I'm a police detective for the

9:35

Arlington Police Department detective Ford by

9:37

all accounts was a hardworking determined

9:39

detective. Well,

9:42

I know this sounds kind of corny. You'll

9:45

have to excuse my Texas terms,

9:47

but that's just the way that

9:49

I talk. I

9:53

just I get

9:55

a feeling of satisfaction from doing something

9:58

good for somebody. Besides

10:00

myself, I feel like that I'm

10:02

very privileged to be allowed to

10:05

be involved in this. The Arlington

10:07

Police Department has been

10:09

wonderful to me over the years

10:12

and they've given me lots of

10:14

opportunities that I may have never

10:16

had before. And I'm

10:18

very appreciative of that. And

10:21

I hope I can continue to be doing

10:23

this for a long time until

10:26

they carry me off or something. But

10:29

I guess it's a self-satisfaction. It's

10:33

a love-hate thing. You hate

10:36

seeing the tragedy and

10:39

you hate cases that

10:41

you haven't solved. You

10:44

hate to see the looks on

10:46

the family when you give them

10:48

an update and you tell them

10:50

that you don't have anything. You

10:52

hate to be the deliverer of

10:54

bad news and

10:58

things like that. So it's a love-hate

11:00

thing. But when you can be a

11:02

part of sobbing one, I

11:04

mean, it's the thrill.

11:07

There's nothing like it. Not any

11:10

other experience I've ever had is

11:12

like the thrill of being directly

11:15

involved in sobbing a

11:17

murder case. This is

11:19

how Detective Ford explains the twilight calls on June

11:22

17th of 1985. Tramboli

11:25

said that about

11:27

two o'clock in the morning that

11:29

he woke up with a child.

11:32

The child was sick. He

11:35

tried to use the telephone. Tramboli says

11:37

that the telephone, if the residence didn't

11:40

work at 2 a.m. And

11:42

this is on June

11:44

17th, the date of the offense.

11:49

And so he says that he

11:52

got in his car, drove

11:54

down the alley. There's an alley

11:57

behind these duplexes where there's

11:59

car parking. courts and drove

12:02

down the alley, knocked on the door and

12:04

spoke with Joanne. She

12:07

let him in and he used a

12:09

telephone called the answering service for, I

12:11

believe it was Dr. Varga's office and

12:14

while he was in there he noticed

12:17

that John Bradley was sleeping on the

12:20

couch. The couch pulled out and made a

12:22

bed or something and John Bradley was on

12:24

the couch. Then

12:27

Tramboli went home, decided

12:30

to call the answering service

12:32

at Dr. Varga's office again

12:35

about 5am and telephone at

12:37

Tramboli's residence still wouldn't work so

12:39

he went back down and Joanne

12:41

let him back in. He

12:44

used the telephone again at 5am.

12:47

Tramboli told us that he

12:50

got a hold of the answering service

12:52

and ultimately the doctor's office or someone

12:54

at the doctor's office made an appointment

12:56

to bring the child in at 8.30am

12:58

on June the 17th and on just

13:02

about 3 hours later. Tramboli

13:06

says he went back home and

13:08

his wife took the baby to

13:10

the doctor about 8.30am. They got

13:12

home about 10.30am. For

13:16

a neighbor to come by and enter someone's

13:18

home to make a phone call at 2

13:21

and 5am seems very strange today in our

13:23

era of cell phones especially. Was

13:25

it just as strange back in 1985? No, I think it was the same.

13:28

I think the

13:34

environment was the same then as

13:36

it is now. But

13:38

according to Lisa, Ronald only

13:40

went to Joanne after exhausting other

13:43

options. Yeah, because

13:45

originally he didn't go to

13:47

Joanne's house to use the

13:49

phone. He went originally

13:51

around the corner to JP

13:53

Folk's payphone. Which was a

13:55

convenience store. Yeah, it was

13:57

a convenience store. story

14:00

was called J.T. Folks and it was

14:02

a convenience store that

14:04

was a block, maybe a

14:06

block and a half up the

14:09

street from where he lived and he

14:11

went there first. But when

14:13

he drove over there, there was a bunch of

14:15

kids hanging out by the payphone

14:17

or hanging out there and he

14:19

wasn't comfortable. So he came, he

14:22

drove back over to the

14:24

duplex and DC was outside

14:26

with the baby, you know, what

14:29

most moms do is like, okay, let's

14:31

go outside and get some fresh air.

14:33

It is June and it's a nice

14:35

night. So maybe that'll calm

14:37

you down, you know, because you're so

14:39

darn fussy. Let's get some air. And

14:43

so when he came back, she was

14:46

holding the baby standing in front

14:48

and I guess looked up and

14:50

saw that Joanne's bedroom light was

14:53

on and he said,

14:55

she said, well Joanne's lights on

14:58

once you go up there and see if she'll

15:00

let you use the phone. So that's why he

15:02

did it. It wasn't

15:04

like it was his initial thought. He

15:06

didn't go to his parents house. We

15:09

live just about six

15:11

blocks, seven blocks down from where

15:14

he lives. Right. Well,

15:16

that would have been his last choice. Believe

15:18

me, he didn't want to hear it from

15:20

his mother. You know, my

15:23

grandmother would have been on his ass about what

15:25

you're not taking care of this baby. An important

15:29

piece of context here that you will learn

15:31

much more about in later episodes is

15:34

that the Trumboli family and Joanne's family

15:36

were well acquainted. The two families knew

15:38

each other and had known each other for years at that

15:40

time. So while showing up in

15:43

the wee hours of the morning, obviously was unusual.

15:45

It wasn't as if Ronald was some total

15:47

stranger appearing at Joanne's store. The

15:50

exact timeline of when Ronald took his

15:52

infant to the doctor would later become

15:54

an important subject of debate. According to

15:56

the Fort Worth star telegram, Joanne

15:58

Lemieux said, Ronald asked for

16:00

a glass of water during one of his minutes.

16:03

Also according to the Fort Worth Star Telegram, Joanne

16:06

later left for work at 7.30am, locking the

16:09

front and back doors, but not checking on

16:11

her daughters, whom she assumed were asleep. She

16:13

would call to check in at 10am and

16:15

then throughout the day and early evening, not

16:18

getting a response. Joanne

16:20

would later arrive home around 10pm and

16:22

discover her daughter Renee's body in a

16:24

bathroom and call the police before

16:27

discovering Danielle's body in

16:29

Joanne's bedroom. The police

16:31

arrived and investigated only

16:34

two bodies. Well, when

16:36

I got there at the scene,

16:38

of course, patrol officers had already

16:40

responded along with

16:42

patrol supervisors and a night

16:45

detective that was on duty

16:47

at that time. That

16:49

patrol already had the residents taped

16:52

off of crime scene tape and

16:55

of course were canvassing the

16:57

neighborhood, going door to door, knocking

17:00

on doors and talking with people.

17:03

Crime scene investigators had responded

17:05

to the scene. They had

17:07

already made an initial

17:09

walkthrough of the residents and

17:12

basically were standing by for

17:15

my arrival to direct

17:18

the investigation. I was

17:21

escorted into the residence by

17:23

the crime scene investigators that

17:25

had already been in the

17:27

residence and we made a

17:29

complete sweep of the house

17:32

to check for any additional bodies and in

17:35

fact we did find a third body that

17:37

had not been originally discovered and this body

17:39

was closed up in

17:41

the closed utility room inside the

17:44

residence. That was the body of

17:46

John Bradley. When

17:50

questioned by police, Ronald Trimbulli would first claim,

17:52

as written in his official statement, quote, I

17:55

have only been in Joanne's house about two

17:57

or three times since they moved in. I

18:00

have never been in the bathroom, bedrooms,

18:02

utility rooms, and I have never

18:04

touched the washer or dryer. There's

18:07

an XXX and then what looks like an

18:09

addition at the bottom, which states, quote, I

18:11

would like to add that within the last

18:13

three months, I have taken a tour of

18:16

Joanne's house and I may

18:18

have walked around the house into the bedrooms and

18:20

the utility room." End quote. Someone

18:23

changing their story in this fashion, it would stand

18:25

to reason, might make the police

18:27

suspicious. Ronald's timeline of

18:29

when exactly he took his baby to

18:32

the doctor also seemed inexact, as

18:34

referenced by his wife, Denise Thompson, beside

18:37

a statement of her own. But

18:39

her statement also detailed how Ron was

18:41

with her the entire day, except

18:43

for a brief period of time when she took

18:45

her daughter Hope to a friend's house. In

18:48

her statement, Denise says, I don't

18:50

ever remember his being out of my

18:53

presence that morning except

18:55

for the short time that I was

18:57

gone delivering Hope to Nicole's house. According

19:00

to the Forest Star Telegram, Ronald Trimboli would

19:02

describe that period of time as 10 minutes

19:05

and Denise would repeatedly point out there

19:08

was no way her husband could have gone

19:10

down the street, killed three teenagers, and returned

19:12

home without her knowing or seeing anything. Also

19:15

in her statement, she says, there is

19:17

an issue of Ron saying that he was at the

19:19

doctor's office at 830 in the morning. I

19:22

have no explanation for this other than he was

19:24

confused due to being up all night with the

19:26

baby. We asked Denise, who

19:28

goes by DC, about her

19:30

statement. My

19:33

name is Denise Lynn Dawson, and

19:35

Ronald Trimboli was my husband. Everybody

19:37

called her Dennis. No, it's Denise. It's her

19:39

friend's name. Denise

19:42

Darcelle is the name of a French movie

19:44

star. Ta-da. So

19:48

That's where we got our name. I'll.

20:02

Answer. I'll

20:04

just as much as I sat placing

20:06

their i can't. This isn't the

20:08

point that I've got to get

20:10

across to everybody. is. Me

20:13

knowing long the way he was I lived

20:16

in my head is child. I went through

20:18

the court case with him and everything he

20:20

has a daughter says is still backing him

20:22

up. We

20:25

would not be talking today

20:27

if that wasn't the case.

20:30

I. Would be telling you today. I

20:33

warned us about the esl Be

20:35

devoted did he got what he

20:37

got bored and best it drop

20:39

it. But. If

20:41

that's that's a story, it's not. And

20:45

I just always there's no

20:47

body, you car or a

20:49

body else. No more. Your. Is.

20:52

Gonna convince me that he did it. I

20:56

will take that to my grave. Detective

21:01

Words theory was that the sexual assault

21:03

of Danielle may have been the primary

21:05

motive of the killer. All

21:08

three. Victims

21:10

were in. Three

21:13

different parts the house which

21:15

could indicate that for absolutely

21:17

some of them were asleep

21:19

at the time the to

21:21

entry was made. oh they're

21:23

are three were brutally killed

21:25

which could also engaged or

21:27

the to suspect is now.

21:31

Perhaps are some some my personal.

21:34

Anger involves there as well

21:36

as his concealing his identity.

21:38

But by killing the suspects

21:41

or scuse me, killing. The

21:43

victims and course there was

21:45

a sexual assaults on obvious

21:48

sexual assault of of than

21:50

Yale was gonna indicated. perhaps

21:52

she was the primary targets

21:55

of the assets. Danielle.

21:58

sexual assault Almost everything in

22:00

this case would also be the subject of

22:02

debate later on. What no one

22:05

could debate was that these three teenagers

22:07

had been murdered in an incredibly violent,

22:09

methodical, and surprisingly undetected

22:11

fashion given the close proximity of

22:13

other homes. Detective Ford

22:16

didn't find it surprising, however. No,

22:19

that didn't surprise me so much

22:21

because things do happen all the

22:24

time where there's no

22:26

witnesses, there's

22:28

just no one outside at the time to

22:30

see anything, and there's not enough noise made

22:33

perhaps. And also

22:35

if it was committed by someone

22:37

who lived in the neighborhood, they

22:39

could simply just walk up to

22:41

the residence and make entry. There

22:43

wouldn't be a big

22:46

production for somebody to see and this

22:49

type of thing. So no, it wasn't surprising

22:51

to me. The medical examiner

22:53

would not arrive until nine hours later, according

22:55

to an article from the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

22:58

In the same article, Chief Medical

23:00

Examiner Nizam Pirwani is quoted from

23:03

his eventual testimony as saying, quote,

23:05

police agencies are required to call us as

23:08

soon as the body is found, end quote.

23:10

Investigator James L. Kirkpatrick would also

23:13

later testify that the delay impeded his

23:15

attempts to pinpoint the time of death.

23:18

Pirwani would roughly estimate, according to

23:20

the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, that the murders

23:22

occurred sometime between 7.30 a.m. and noon.

23:26

When exactly the murders took place, would

23:28

prove a critical question in the investigation.

23:32

Detective Ford had a perspective on the

23:34

timing of the process. Well,

23:36

in this particular case, we had three

23:39

bodies, which in itself is unusual. So

23:41

there's going to be three times the

23:43

work and it's going to take three

23:45

times as long. In

23:48

addition to that, we had a

23:50

very bloody crime scene. And

23:53

That's going to slow things down

23:55

even more because we have to

23:57

use more care not to disturb.

24:00

Any evidence that that was

24:02

there and ah plus as

24:04

this was a triple murder

24:06

and are we in have

24:08

a suspect in custody at

24:10

our own. The slain at

24:12

the time initially had no

24:15

idea who says bag might

24:17

be. We want to be

24:19

as a as thorough as

24:21

we could us while we

24:23

used the blood splatter pattern

24:25

technique. that's why we videotaped

24:27

the entire crime saying this

24:29

and videotape. In or thirty five

24:31

millimeter photographs were taken that you

24:34

know from from every earth feasible

24:36

I angle. That's why we went

24:38

to the extra for a more

24:40

to try to do everything possible

24:42

and because of that it took

24:44

a lot longer than we normally

24:46

do. According to reporting

24:48

from both the Fort Worth Star Telegram

24:51

and Dallas Magazine, Ran. A seat

24:53

had been bound with tan pantyhose, her

24:55

hands tied with electrical cord, and another

24:57

pair pantyhose used as a gag. She

24:59

was stabbed nine times. Danielle.

25:02

Was found nude from the waist down. Stabbed

25:05

in the next. Just. Our

25:07

hands bound. Conrad

25:10

His ankles are bound by Staff Moreau.

25:13

His hands are tied with Greenlight Record. He

25:15

was gag by a soft, died to abroad

25:18

and stabbed six. So. I

25:20

didn't just read these details. Texas

25:22

and watched. As

25:29

us to swaths the cleansing video.

25:39

Is so horrible. It so.

25:42

You know it's one thing to hear about

25:44

it, something desert explain to you, but it's

25:46

Isis is. Now.

25:50

As a horrible thing in. to

25:53

say i was at and saints

25:56

this is a person or persons

25:58

who did this who

26:00

haven't done something like this before. The

26:05

binding, gagging, and

26:09

just the level of violence

26:12

of it is

26:15

so severe and

26:18

depraved. It's

26:22

just, it was really hard to watch. And

26:27

honestly, I think as much as anything

26:29

else I've heard about the story is

26:33

what gives me doubt,

26:35

you know, that I

26:38

just can't see how a person could

26:41

do that and not have some

26:43

previous incident that

26:49

at least suggested they were capable of something

26:51

like this in their history. It's

26:53

just one of the toughest things I've

27:03

ever had to watch. My

27:06

conclusion that whomever committed this crime had

27:08

definitely done something like this before was

27:11

shared by Hugh Atwell, formerly of the Arlington

27:13

Police Department. I spoke to Hugh

27:16

Atwell, now retired, about this story.

27:19

Hugh, H-U-G-H,

27:22

Atwell, A-P-W-E-L-L.

27:25

And I was the commander of the

27:27

Arlington Police Department Major Case Unit at

27:30

the time of the investigation. You

27:32

know, when you're a retired

27:35

investigator, it's kind of like you're

27:37

surrounded by ghosts. You know, it's

27:40

hard to even drive down the street because you look over there

27:42

and say, oh yeah, I know about it. I

27:46

served a chair in Vietnam and

27:49

been exposed to a lot of trauma before

27:51

ever. Being a police officer, I think that

27:53

helped me out. So I

27:55

think I might've been a little

27:57

bit uniquely prepared to do this

27:59

job. without it affecting me and

28:01

I learned early on that it

28:04

was not pleasant to come home and bring this

28:06

kind of stuff home with you. As

28:08

a matter of fact, I wouldn't even

28:10

want you to use it. I found that if

28:12

I limited myself to the amount of trauma in

28:14

the world because I had a certain, there's a

28:16

lot of necessary trauma out there that I had

28:18

to be exposed to, that I had to

28:21

be a part of. I purposely

28:23

limited my amount of

28:25

trauma and also I purposed to

28:28

be around good people when

28:30

I wasn't having to do my

28:33

job. I

28:35

was a member of church and people

28:37

that were lovable and

28:40

that loved you and that was so important.

28:43

I specifically asked you his thoughts on a

28:45

crime that was so violent and so meticulous

28:48

from someone who didn't have a history of violence. Yeah

28:52

and I understand exactly what you're

28:54

saying and to be brutally honest

28:56

with you, I feel and did

28:58

feel the same way. That is

29:00

the one thing

29:03

that that loved me throughout

29:05

this. Now he was not a

29:08

local guy. He had

29:10

relocated, if my memory is correct,

29:12

from somewhere in New Jersey. Looking

29:14

at that crime scene, you automatically

29:17

have to say this is

29:19

not this guy's first time. Exactly.

29:22

That's the exact same thing that I thought when I looked

29:24

at it. Yeah and this guy

29:26

was kind of organized. He knew

29:28

what he was doing and

29:32

it was, you're right, it was

29:34

unusually brutal to the point where

29:37

you feel pretty

29:39

sure that he was doing torturing

29:41

and it had to be a horrendous,

29:44

a horrendous thing that

29:46

went on in there and

29:48

the fact that he was able

29:51

to control three people so completely

29:53

and so fast, you

29:55

know, that shows that he put a lot of

29:57

thought into this. It's not something that that

30:01

one would do right off the cuff. You

30:03

would have had to organize that. And

30:06

one was the post-adolescent young man who

30:08

I think he probably considered himself kind

30:10

of a tough guy. You know, he

30:12

was not a, you know, he's kind

30:15

of a street wise kid from everything I

30:17

know about him. Just controlling him. You

30:20

know, he had to really

30:23

been able to know how to intimidate until

30:25

he could get him under

30:27

restraint. Q is referring there

30:30

to John Bradley. You'll learn

30:32

more about John's history in the next episodes.

30:36

I tried very hard to get

30:38

the authorities in New

30:40

Jersey to help me out and

30:42

go through their falls and see

30:44

if we could find anything similar

30:47

because if they're successful in

30:50

using a particular method, they'll repeat themselves.

30:53

I could get no cooperation at all from

30:56

any of the law enforcement agencies up

30:58

there. I tried to stay, I tried

31:00

local, where he grew up, where he

31:02

was. You know, just because we don't

31:04

have a record of it, don't mean he didn't do it.

31:07

You know what I mean? And that

31:09

was very frustrating because with

31:12

the DNA left behind and

31:14

his proximity to the crime

31:16

scene, I was confident we

31:18

had the guy. But

31:21

like you and many,

31:23

probably many others, the

31:25

fact that he didn't have that kind of

31:27

a violent record, you know, that was bothersome.

31:31

Q wonders here if perhaps Ronald did have a

31:33

violent history but they just weren't able to get

31:35

his full records to confirm it. At

31:38

this point, in addition to the months

31:40

I've spent researching this story, I've also

31:42

read the trial transcripts, incredible long-form reporting

31:44

from Dallas Magazine and the Fort Worth

31:47

Star-Telegram, not to mention doing many interviews

31:50

with people who knew Ron. Ronald was not a perfect

31:52

guy by any means. And we'll get into all of

31:54

that in our next episode. But

31:56

it seems very clear that he lacked the kind

31:58

of violent criminal history would logically

32:00

connect to this crime. But to Detective

32:03

Ford, at the end of the day,

32:05

the conclusion was plain. This is

32:07

a very simple case. He lies about

32:09

when he went to the doctor. He

32:12

says he took his child to

32:14

the doctor at 830 a.m. when we know

32:16

it was 11 a.m. He's trying

32:21

to establish his alibi. When

32:24

we interview him, he

32:27

lies about ever touching

32:29

any appliance in the

32:31

residence. He says that he's

32:33

never been in the utility room. He

32:35

says that he's never touched the washer

32:37

or dryer. He

32:40

refuses to give us a blood

32:42

sample. He refuses to

32:44

take a polygraph test. When

32:47

we confront him after finding out

32:49

that his fingerprints and his palm

32:51

prints are on the washer top

32:53

in such a position that the

32:56

suspect would leave those prints

32:59

while supporting himself to lean

33:01

down and to stab John

33:04

Bradley, Trumboli's own

33:06

response is that you're

33:08

dismistaken. Those aren't

33:10

my prints. I mean,

33:12

obviously, Ronald Trumboli committed

33:14

this brutal crime. Is

33:19

it simple? Is it obvious? Almost

33:22

every element Detective Ford cites there, including

33:24

the timeline of events, would be challenged

33:27

in the course of the subsequent trials.

33:29

For example, it turned out

33:31

multiple witnesses saw the girls alive later

33:33

that day. And

33:35

at least one jury would definitely not agree.

33:37

It was simple. If

33:39

it was a simple case, why did

33:42

it ultimately take three trials to convict

33:44

Ronald Trumboli? To understand

33:46

how Ronald Trumboli was convicted and why

33:48

there is credible reason to doubt his

33:50

guilt, you have to understand the man.

33:53

You have to understand his flaws. Ronald

33:56

Trumboli was a lot of things. The

33:59

charismatic, irresponsible, beloved,

34:01

reckless, small-time hustler. A

34:04

man whom everyone seemed to like, even

34:07

some of the people he'd talk out of their own money.

34:10

But also a man who had no history of violence,

34:13

and no history of sexual assault. On

34:19

the next episode, you'll learn about Ronald's colorful life,

34:22

and why the justice system was already familiar with

34:24

him. But you'll also learn about

34:26

the two other most significant suspects in the

34:28

case, whose criminal histories include

34:30

charges of sexual assault of minors, stabbing,

34:34

and murder. John Bradley told the

34:36

police that he was in fear for his life

34:38

because one of these men had threatened to quote,

34:40

get even with me no matter what he had

34:42

to do. That's

34:45

next time. In the

34:47

Blood is a production of Voyage Media.

34:49

The series is produced by Nat Mundell,

34:51

Robert Midas, Kaitlyn Brown, and Dan Binnemore.

34:54

Lead, reported, and written by Dan Binnemore.

34:56

Edited, sound designed, and mixed by John

34:58

Higgins. Original music by Délis Bonzález. Hosted

35:00

by Ben McKenzie. If you're enjoying the

35:02

show, please leave us a five-star review

35:05

in Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you're listening.

35:07

And subscribe now for future episodes.