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1:50

Hey everyone, this is Sarah. Would

1:53

you like to take a more active role in the Hide

1:55

and Seek community? Would

1:57

you like to share your thoughts with other listeners?

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Join us in the Hide and Seek

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This podcast deals with mature topics

2:14

that may not be suitable for all listeners.

2:17

Material heard on the Hide and Seek Podcast is

2:19

intended for adult listeners. And

2:22

her discretion is advised. Until

2:53

today. The stories they

2:55

tell are pretty freaking

2:57

gruesome. I

2:59

kept all the text messages, Facebook messages,

3:01

the messages between the invite me. I

3:04

have all of them.

3:07

I have everything. I told myself,

3:09

I have all my motherfuckers. I

3:11

was going to have my people who can take care

3:14

of it. All

3:17

the people came out of nowhere to see

3:19

what somebody said. Is this a little town

3:21

around here? It would be hard to hide somebody.

3:24

Is it this or everything? You

3:28

need to see this. I don't believe anything. I haven't

3:30

been riding this long.

3:32

This is Hide and Seek. Season 3. Part 3.

3:38

I'm a person. I'm

3:41

a person. I'm

3:50

a person.

6:00

was our last trip to Michigan. Sarah

6:12

and I sit down to go over dates and travel plans.

6:15

I shoot a text to Ethan so I can confirm that dates

6:17

are good for him. Prior to Shane

6:20

joining the team I didn't really have a sound

6:22

guy so Ethan recruited younger

6:24

brother Parker to fill the spot. When

6:27

I decided to take Brittany's case on in May of 2021

6:29

I made the decision

6:31

very early on that I wanted to conduct my own

6:33

search in the areas Brittany may have wandered

6:35

off to. Sarah and

6:37

I discussed scenarios. What

6:40

if we lost Brittany to the elements? What

6:43

if she's still out there? I share

6:45

my desire to do her own search with Sarah. I

6:48

tell her I want cadaver dogs with us on the next

6:50

trip. After discussion

6:53

I decided I wanted to visit several properties.

6:56

Doing this is going to be an enormous undertaking.

6:58

If you've ever been part

7:00

of an organized search and rescue you'll

7:02

know one of the first questions asked is have

7:04

you received consent to search the property? Sarah

7:08

devises a plan and comes up with a map. In

7:11

total we're potentially looking at

7:13

searching 25 properties that cover

7:15

a total area of just under 400 acres.

7:18

Sarah takes the map and searches property records for

7:20

the names and contact information for each. From

7:24

there she starts making phone calls to gain permission

7:26

for us to search these properties.

7:30

This project turns into several days of work.

7:33

Tracking down working numbers proves to be challenging.

7:36

Tracking down correct numbers that aren't disconnected

7:38

proves to be even more challenging. After

7:42

days of phone calls, voice messages, phone

7:44

tag, hangups, callbacks, and

7:47

bad connections Sarah is able to gain permission

7:49

from 22 of the 25 property owners. One was unable to be reached,

7:55

one was a no, and one required

7:58

some special attention. An

8:00

elderly gentleman who doesn't use a cell phone

8:03

and doesn't usually hear his landline ringing. Sarah

8:06

was able to do some of her fancy detective work

8:08

and figure out where this gentleman was picking up an

8:10

early dinner for himself one afternoon. And

8:13

yeah, you guessed it. With

8:15

the help of the waitstaff, Sarah was able to make

8:17

contact with the gentleman who was not only impressed

8:20

but extremely happy to help. Sarah's

8:23

batting percentage, 98%. She's

8:26

a slugger at the plate. She hits 23

8:29

out of 25 and it looks like

8:31

rickety season is the thing in the past for Sarah. Great

8:34

work. Coretta

8:36

Scott King once said, the greatness

8:39

of a community is most accurately measured

8:41

by the compassionate actions of its members.

8:45

To all of those who responded to our plea for assistance,

8:48

I want to express my heartfelt appreciation to each

8:50

and every one of you. To

8:52

help us in completing the property searches and

8:55

to fulfill my desire for our own search with cadaver

8:57

dogs, we needed to organize

8:59

a list of requirements. What I'm

9:01

looking for didn't feel like it was going to be easy

9:04

to find. A highly trained canine

9:06

search and rescue team with fully vetted professionals

9:09

and plenty of experience and they must

9:11

be willing to travel to Michigan if they weren't in

9:13

the immediate area. Sarah

9:15

reached out to her contacts and within just 24

9:18

hours, she had an assembled and impressive

9:20

team we were eager to connect with.

9:22

Before we knew it, we found ourselves on a zoom

9:25

call with the founder of the remarkable 501c3

9:28

canine search and rescue team. Their

9:30

mission is to be at the forefront leading the way

9:32

as the preferred service provider to law enforcement,

9:34

emergency management and the entire community.

9:38

Our encounter with the founder of the organization

9:40

was nothing short of inspiring. Here's

9:45

a local news clip of Mike and his team.

9:50

The East River canine

9:50

search and rescue unit is a group

9:53

of dogs and fair owners who train

9:55

to find missing people and human remains.

10:01

They double as pets and then they work as working

10:03

dogs on the sideline. It

10:06

doesn't matter the size of the dog or the breed of the

10:08

dog, it just matters where the dog

10:10

wants to work.

10:14

The President of Peace River Canines, Mike

10:16

Hadsell and his dog Nixie are

10:18

joining other hay the lers and their dogs for

10:20

their weekly training session near Mayaka

10:23

Forest.

10:25

We shared our purpose with him and after our meeting

10:28

we obtained approval from the St. Joseph County

10:30

Sheriff's Office. We

10:32

were ready with an exceptional team standing by,

10:35

prepared and eager to lend their expertise and

10:37

support. In

10:39

addition to the Canine Search and Rescue team, we

10:41

were able to secure a published research scientist

10:44

who is an expert in both forensic anthropology

10:47

and forensic archaeology. He

10:49

earned a medical technology degree from Fairfax

10:52

Hospital, a Master's of Science

10:54

degree and forensic science from Virginia Commonwealth

10:56

University and he obtained his

10:58

PhD in Air and Anthropology from

11:00

the University of Tennessee. He

11:03

is a professor at the Law Enforcement Innovation

11:05

Center at the University of Tennessee's

11:07

Institute for Public Service. In 2011,

11:11

he contributed to the prosecution's

11:13

case in the trial of Casey Anthony.

11:19

Did a sample, a carpet sample from that

11:21

car? No,

11:25

the child in that case was

11:28

wrapped in a blanket and the blanket

11:30

is what was stained and again, granted

11:33

it's not a perfect positive control. I

11:36

mean, thank goodness I don't find all these children

11:38

from the prosecution judge. I'm going to strike that answer.

11:43

When you opened the can

11:45

which contained the carpet sample submitted

11:47

to you, what was your reaction?

11:51

Well, first I jumped back about two feet

11:53

because the odor was pretty strong,

11:56

but it

11:56

was to me the

11:59

smell of humidity.

11:59

composition. Human

12:04

decomposition is very unique.

12:08

Just like a skunk. You

12:12

don't need to see that a skunk

12:14

had been run over

12:16

to know that it had been.

12:26

At the time of our trip, he was working

12:29

on an experimental invention to help locate

12:31

clandestine gravesites. He

12:33

received approval for this invention from the US

12:35

Patent Office in July of 2018.

12:38

Forensic Recovery Services use

12:40

a multi-layered approach to finding graves.

12:43

This invention is just one potential layer. Are

12:47

we skeptical? Sure. But

12:49

who are we to pass up this offer? I'm

12:52

happy to allow him time to try his invention during our

12:54

trip to Sturgis. Now

12:56

two months before my return to Sturgis, Sarah

12:59

set up a meeting for us to speak to the founder of the

13:01

K9 Search and Rescue team we were going

13:03

to be working with. It was

13:05

truly an exceptional experience to meet

13:08

and collaborate with someone as willing and eager to help

13:10

his night. It's refreshing to work

13:12

with individuals like him. Mike's

13:14

experience in training is impressive. He's

13:16

been working in K9 training for nearly 40 years

13:19

and the K9s and handlers are trained in more than 25

13:22

different areas. I could see

13:24

how dedicated he was immediately. I found

13:27

myself in a state of disbelief, genuinely

13:30

shocked that all of this was unfolding

13:32

before my eyes because not long

13:35

ago I was

13:37

preparing insurance quotes and strategizing

13:39

how to grow my insurance agency. Today

13:42

I'm preparing to search for the loss with the

13:44

trained professional in the field. As

13:48

for the K9s, they're continually worked

13:50

on different sizes and ages to give them

13:52

the widest cent range to experience

13:55

and keep threshold problems from developing. K9s and

13:58

handlers have been trained and certified. certified in more

14:00

than 30 different areas. All team

14:02

members are certified through NAPWDA,

14:06

North American Police Work Dog Association,

14:08

along with have taken a crime scene preservation

14:11

class and have high levels of training

14:13

on both land and water, as well as

14:15

evidence discovery and recovery procedures.

14:19

Lastly, all Cadaver team

14:21

members have to pass level 2 background check. These

14:24

teams are all made up of volunteers, people

14:27

who have a desire to share their expertise and

14:29

help provide some resolution to families and friends

14:31

of the missing. Coming

14:34

away from the meeting, I was

14:36

reminded of an old quote, volunteers

14:40

don't necessarily have the time, they

14:42

just have the heart. I'd

14:45

definitely say that's true. Even

14:52

with camera and sound equipment, might

14:54

sound like a good time, but it's

14:56

not. When

15:00

we finally land in Indiana after 12 hours

15:03

of traveling, Ethan,

15:05

Parker and I hit the road right out of the airport. We're

15:09

all tired, hungry and

15:11

ready to fall into a comfortable bed. Life

15:15

on the road during these trips is full of

15:17

coffee, energy drinks, fast

15:19

food and very little sleep. Before

15:22

Ethan knew what he was getting himself into, it was

15:24

too late. Plans change without

15:26

a moment's notice. Regardless of our

15:28

meticulous planning, our thoroughness or

15:31

the buffer time we include in our schedules, things

15:34

never seem to unfold as anticipated. It's

15:37

a good thing Ethan has a great attitude, because let

15:39

me tell you, this kind of lifestyle isn't

15:42

meant for just anyone. So,

15:44

here we are, back in Sturgis. Our

15:47

first stop is with Jessica. The search

15:49

and rescue team needs a few things from her to begin

15:51

their work tomorrow. We have a considerable

15:53

drive ahead of us, and it's already late. How

15:57

are you doing Parker? Good.

15:58

Alright, we gotta

16:00

go... We're

16:03

gonna have to go about another hour and a half to go

16:05

get Jessica's for

16:08

the search tomorrow. She

16:10

did not tell me she was over an hour and a half

16:12

way. Alright,

16:15

we'll get it. Alright.

16:24

Yeah. I want to go. You want to go to

16:26

that house? Uh-huh. Alright.

16:28

Yeah, go ahead.

16:30

Okay. Alright, I'll see you soon. Alright,

16:33

bye. Bye. How

16:37

much do you just got? One to ten. Ten

16:40

people's trust? It's just...

16:49

Approaching Jessica's property. I

16:51

can't help but take you to the scene. I

16:54

know once we start rolling in the morning, there

16:56

won't be time to take any of this in. Alright, I just

16:58

took a left on you. As the clock ticks

17:00

closer to midnight, the serene

17:03

atmosphere of the quiet suburban street feels

17:05

so welcoming. The

17:07

tangled branches of the trees above us create a

17:09

cozy canopy, and the sound of leaves

17:11

scattering around the street feels like a scene from the Lifetime

17:14

movie. To

17:17

the right of the driveway, the porch light on the

17:19

neighbor's house shines brightly. Several

17:21

cars are neatly parked along the curb. I

17:23

see Jessica standing there at the front door. She's

17:26

dressed all in black. Take a left, take a left,

17:28

take a left right now. I see you. She's smiling

17:30

and she looks happy to see us. I'll put my phone out here so

17:32

you can see. And she waves us into the driveway. Take

17:35

my phone. Here, I see it.

17:47

Hey, how you doing? Hi,

17:50

welcome. Hi, yeah. Yeah. How

17:53

you doing? All

17:55

right. All right. All

17:57

right, how are you?

17:59

I don't see my work so far.

17:59

he

18:04

didn't and i entered the front door

18:14

and i see a familiar face

18:17

either us

18:19

and put my hand out to say cages and

18:22

disease as a violent earth back

18:24

in october and just getting caterer hanging

18:26

out together and three to six

18:28

one all affected by several it as soon as

18:31

this included so each piece

18:33

of is a since the telephone story of affairs

18:36

long and tightly nodded and drama is

18:39

firmly at this moment since supportive

18:41

of jessica has changed in order

18:49

for

18:51

a or six months or know

18:53

a year but i can be very wary

18:55

sussex market are part of some of the six months

18:57

i for my work we

19:05

keep are meeting brief and collect items

19:07

requested by the canine team we

19:09

say goodbye for now it's

19:11

late midst of a long drive back and air bnb

19:15

says dr adidas afraid area

19:19

and i decided to head over to this is where i am

19:21

as far as as interstellar whenever he

19:24

held out there film i'd

19:26

as i say let else will do you see

19:29

discuss size

19:38

decision rescue team and the friends against apologists

19:41

had about a twenty hour drive to michigan

19:43

i mean into the air bnb earlier in the evening

19:46

sir got him settled in and by the time we make

19:48

it back to the house they're fast asleep

19:51

the canines arresting and we do our very best a

19:53

sneaky mother mcdonalds try not

19:55

to with anyone the mixer all the murders

19:58

plugin before with the sack We'll

20:00

need to be up and out the door again before

20:02

we know it.

20:16

The guys and I get up just a few hours after

20:18

we laid our heads down. It's incredible how

20:20

fast time goes when you're here. We're

20:22

able to officially meet the K-9 team and

20:25

the forensic archaeologist. I

20:27

make a mad dash to meet the dogs.

20:29

There's two.

20:32

Good

20:34

boy, Dutch. Are you excited? How

20:38

you doing? How you doing? He's a

20:40

good boy. He's good. Oh, he's

20:42

a good boy. He's a good

20:44

boy.

20:47

Our first stop today is Grandma's. I

20:51

want to say hello, but I also want to share updates

20:53

and do a general check-in. Sadly,

20:57

this will be the last time I saw Vicky. On

21:00

April 17, 2023, Vicky passed away. While

21:05

I'm visiting Vicky, the K-9 team and

21:07

the forensic archaeologist move forward with their

21:09

plans to make a few preliminary visits

21:11

to the areas of interest. While

21:14

making their rounds, the experimental

21:16

invention the forensic archaeologist brought

21:19

continued to direct them to the pasture not far

21:21

from the crash site. Since the

21:23

invention he's using is still being developed, he

21:26

asked us not to share details. They're

21:28

happy to honor that request. After

21:32

leaving Vicky's, we met up with the K-9 team

21:34

and the archaeologists. We want to hear

21:36

what their take is on the sites they visited that morning.

21:38

And I won't lie. Speaking

21:41

to the archaeologist made me feel like

21:43

I was speaking to a Pulitzer Prize-winning

21:45

scientist. Have you ever

21:47

talked to someone and you're listening and

21:50

you recognize the words, but you just can't

21:52

make sense of what they're saying, even though you

21:54

really want to understand? That

21:56

was me. I decided

21:58

to just do a lot of nodding. The

22:00

remainder of the day was spent visiting different sites

22:02

with the canine team and the archaeologist. There

22:05

was a lot to take in, a lot to learn,

22:08

and there were moments in there where I felt overwhelmed.

22:11

Sometimes, I was overwhelmed with all

22:13

we had to do, but mostly, I was

22:15

overwhelmed with how far we've come. There

22:18

were a few times of silence when I watched them

22:20

working, things that we have worked

22:22

so hard for come to fruition left

22:24

me speechless. Just as we finish

22:26

up at the last site, it begins to rain. Really,

22:29

not a moment too soon. Everyone

22:32

is pretty exhausting. We

22:34

end a long day of researching and collecting info,

22:37

and part ways. The canine team

22:39

makes their way back to the Airbnb, while

22:41

Ethan, Parker, and I go into town. Not

22:44

long after we reach town, I get

22:46

a text from the guys back at the house. It's

22:49

a picture of a gravestone. I don't understand

22:51

what the message is implying, but now, I'm

22:54

in a bit of a rush to get back to see what this is all about.

22:56

I saw that. What is that about? This

22:59

is the... This is the bazaar.

23:00

The bazaar. back

23:03

for it later. Now, if he did that, and there's trace

23:05

evidence in here, in some old club, the digital and stuff,

23:07

we may not be able to find that, but the dogs

23:09

can find it. Okay, and

23:11

they will alert him. That will stay there for many,

23:14

many years.

23:16

Really? Yeah.

23:18

That will stay there for a long time. All

23:20

of the conditions will stay there...

23:22

Just pushes it down into the ground and it will stay there for

23:24

quite some time. So,

23:34

the dogs can pick this up. So we're going to

23:37

really work this area in the morning, and

23:39

see what we have here. That's our first

23:41

big hit.

23:43

And then after leaving there,

23:46

of course, we went up here to where the

23:48

location of the car was, and we wanted to see that.

23:50

And of course, this area was cold. We weren't getting

23:52

anything. The only thing was pointing back

23:55

here to this location. And

23:57

then coming down here, I want to check this area.

23:59

and we checked and went through the

24:01

zone and run us through zero to the monitor just because law

24:03

enforcement was in there searching. After

24:05

that we decided, we tried to get some

24:07

more signal to get anything so we decided

24:10

to go to the other side of the service. We

24:13

checked to see if perhaps

24:15

the body would fall on the other side. Explain

24:20

that for someone why you would consider...

24:23

Well it could be any other cycle. In

24:25

many cases that we've worked, it's been

24:27

our experience that they were going like 10 to 15

24:30

miles away from one of the killed cyclists

24:33

to try and move the body kind

24:35

of down and try to, in their mind,

24:37

take them in a role in the

24:40

familiar area, which you

24:42

know involves some effort. Most

24:45

of the time, a lot of the time, these guys are

24:47

late and they just... I would put

24:49

them in that one field that I showed you earlier and just

24:51

throw some leaves and branches on it and you

24:53

know, unless they really wanted to try

24:57

to hide the remains altogether. Now we're assuming

24:59

that she's dead. She could be alive, she could have been trafficked,

25:01

she could be gone. You know, we don't know. What we're working

25:04

on is the ascension that she's not with. So

25:07

we went through sturges and we came over

25:09

to the other side and we had some more

25:11

interesting readings here. This

25:14

road, the fault road, and we

25:16

started picking up signals out here. So

25:18

we had one signal hit, cross hit

25:21

here on this one and

25:23

we'll run the cadaver dogs in

25:26

here and see if there's anything there. And

25:28

maybe nothing, it could be something. And

25:30

then we had another hit on this side over

25:32

here and this wooded area on this side.

25:35

So we're going to go in there and check the window

25:37

as well. Now this could be... If

25:39

she runs to these, these could be places where they

25:41

take evidence all the time. So we're going

25:43

to throw that right here and they start

25:45

scattering it out. I'm trying

25:48

to, you know, hope no one will ever find it,

25:50

kind of thing. Okay. All

25:53

right. And so then we have one other area down here

25:55

that we wanted to check and it's along

25:57

this water ridge here. And so we want to...

26:00

We'll come back here on 300 and we're going

26:02

to come back here and run the dogs along the shoreline

26:04

here and see if there's anything. Could

26:06

he have sunk her body right in this area right here?

26:09

Yeah, he could have. We'll

26:11

check it out and see if there's

26:13

anything there or not. And

26:16

then the last one that we had, what I call

26:18

the Fizarro one. So,

26:26

whenever we leave an area, you

26:28

know, we came down here with 300, hit 700, whenever

26:32

we leave an area, we keep

26:35

scanning with the device. Okay,

26:39

and we just left it on. But we were driving along

26:42

this road here, 700, and got

26:46

right about here, and the device just went off.

26:49

And it just went nuts. I mean, this is

26:51

the strongest hit that we have

26:53

to the whole thing.

26:56

Really? Even in the first one? Yeah.

27:00

Because the first one was solid. Yeah, we were like, we were such.

27:04

So, we stopped here and we took some more readings

27:06

and it was coming back this way. And we remembered that we

27:08

had seen a cemetery up here.

27:12

Cemetery. And

27:16

sure enough, the

27:18

thing is going berserk. And we end

27:20

up finding this

27:23

one here.

27:28

They

27:31

both died in 2018 and

27:35

they were both buried not far from

27:38

Dunmar before where she went in

27:40

there. Okay, and

27:42

I ran a cadaver dog on it out

27:45

of the whole cemetery and the only graveyard,

27:47

a grave stomps that I had

27:50

a little alert on. So,

27:53

we have a technique using his device

27:56

and we can tell whether there

27:58

is the sex of him.

28:02

And according to what he found,

28:04

and it's just experimental, it's not included.

28:07

There's two females that are buried in this

28:09

grave. What? Here's

28:12

the...

28:14

What about that one?

28:21

This is just bizarre. The

28:24

how it is. Yeah, there's

28:26

two females in there. The

28:31

fact that the dog hit the timeline,

28:33

but we need to find out when

28:36

they were actually in the family in this

28:38

grave. If

28:41

I look at this one here, now

28:44

that doesn't mean that they were buried in that zone. Sometimes

28:47

they can be held for a while before they're actually in

28:49

any chunks. Or sometimes

28:52

someone's going to have to dig into a body and unhelp

28:54

with another one and then bury it back

28:56

up. Usually

28:59

when they're buried and they're embalmed, we

29:01

don't get any hits from the dogs. So

29:05

the fact that the dog is alerting on the grave

29:07

is odd in itself. Find

29:10

out when they were buried. One

29:18

of the old tricks that the mob used to use when

29:20

they were hiding people, they would go out

29:22

and dig into the grave shafts for some reason. They

29:25

would get out there the night before and they

29:27

would dig out the bottom, put the bodies there,

29:30

put the dirt on top of it. And

29:37

that way when the casket goes on top of it. Nobody

29:40

knows they're there. That means a lot

29:42

of that could go on the back side. This could

29:45

be the same thing going on here. So

29:48

that's why I brought it to you

29:50

in the timeline. Because this one's bizarre.

29:55

It's odd. And

29:57

usually sometimes we hit these things and we don't think about it until

29:59

I get it. I got to the dates and it said 2018. I

30:02

was like, oh, was that such enough of

30:04

them to, you know, that's

30:07

the same year she went missing. So

30:10

that's when we were like, okay, could

30:12

we have somebody trying to conceal

30:14

in the gray gray?

30:17

Tomorrow we're going to schedule those other areas to search

30:20

and we're going to go knock them out. We're

30:22

going to spend the day out there doing that. I'll

30:25

circle back on that. Awesome. Thank you. Appreciate

30:27

it, man. Good

30:31

man. What's up, buddy? Hey.

30:34

Hey, how you doing? Yeah, how you doing?

30:38

Not too bad. Yeah. Still

30:40

good. This is my camera crew. Yeah, this

30:42

is Parker.

30:44

All right. The name of the

30:46

grave site happens to match the name of the property

30:49

owner who denied our request to search their pastor.

30:52

I don't put a ton of stock into this and the situation

30:54

still seems strange to me, but I will

30:57

admit I'm curious. Little

30:59

do we know the experimental invention

31:01

brought the canine team to sites that are

31:03

all connected. I'm a little skeptical,

31:06

but we'll see what the dogs turn

31:08

up tomorrow. It's

31:14

another early morning in the podcast house. There's

31:16

no time to waste. So we grab a quick

31:19

bite and a coffee and everyone piles

31:21

out the door. Ethan

31:25

Parker and myself head to one of the properties

31:27

on our long list. Sarah

31:29

uncovered a story while speaking to property owners and I'm

31:32

eager to meet with him and take a look at their land. The

31:35

canine team in the forensic archeologist want to move

31:37

on to the Watt Road area. We

31:40

split up and go our separate ways for now. Sarah

31:47

maintained contact with a few property owners. Now

31:49

in doing so, she uncovered an interesting story about

31:51

two men emerging from the woods on a private

31:54

property in May of 2019. When

31:57

questioned by the property owner.

32:00

One of the men spoke up and said that they were

32:02

searching for Brittany. This

32:04

leaves us to wonder who these men are and

32:07

what their true intentions were. After

32:09

some time passed and the property owner was able

32:11

to speak to others who were present at the time, he

32:14

reached out to Sarah again, connecting the dots

32:16

and identifying one of the men as Brittany's

32:18

husband. Looking at old

32:20

text messages, he was able to further

32:23

recall that. When

32:25

asked what they were doing, one of the men said

32:27

that he was searching for his wife. Unless

32:30

Brittany had more than one husband at the time she disappeared,

32:33

it appears that Eric Gass was one of those men. When

32:36

discussing her plan, Sarah and I both

32:38

agree this location is at the top of our

32:40

list. Now that we're here,

32:43

I make a point to meet with the homeowner as early

32:45

in our trip as possible. So

32:48

early the next morning, we make a plan to visit

32:50

the property. We're pressed

32:52

for time. So the homeowner shows

32:54

us around and we head into the house and grab a seat

32:56

and talk about the story he reported to Sarah. The

32:59

interview goes well. And now that

33:01

it's getting later in the day, we wrap it

33:03

up and make our way back outside. We walk

33:07

through his pasture. It's raining and raw

33:10

and the tall grass is making my pant legs wet. And

33:12

with every step, there's a shit ton of leaves

33:15

covering the ground. Trying

33:20

to search for remains or really anything

33:22

out here at this time would be like trying to find

33:24

a needle in a haystack because

33:26

of the conditions. I realized that searching

33:28

at this moment is not the best use

33:31

of our time. We have

33:33

a list of other tasks that need attention. So

33:35

I make the call to move on. I

33:38

plan to share the interview with law enforcement, especially

33:40

considering Eric wasn't questioned. If

33:43

I were the detective, I would want to know

33:45

why Eric was looking in this specific area

33:48

when there wasn't a search party going on. I'd

33:51

also want to know who the other male was accompanying

33:53

Eric. We've already

33:55

confirmed the person

33:57

with Eric was not JJ. I

34:00

have so many thoughts about what we just discussed with the property

34:02

owner that the guys and I need to take off

34:04

and meet with the K-9 team and the archaeologist.

34:08

We connect to make our way to the pasture across

34:10

the street from the elderly man's house where Brittany went

34:12

to after the car accident. Even

34:15

though this is my third time being here, I've

34:17

looked over this area for hours, but

34:20

we need to cover it again. We

34:22

have the dogs available, so this is

34:25

the time to do it. For

34:27

context, the area is much

34:29

larger than it appears on the map. The

34:32

K-9 handler takes one of his dogs out, it's

34:35

starting to rain, and the wind is picking up. I

34:37

follow the handler as we track through the trees. The

34:40

dog is working hard, moving left and

34:43

right, and then silence.

34:47

It's almost what I imagined it would be like when

34:49

I think about walking through the closet in Chronicles

34:51

of Narnia. The massively

34:54

tall trees shield us from the wind and act

34:56

like a giant umbrella from the sprinkling rain. The

34:59

dog goes back to work. I'm fascinated

35:01

watching them. I find myself holding

35:04

my breath again while watching. My

35:06

hands are clenched in the fist. It's

35:08

tense. I'm hoping her next move

35:11

is a signal that she found something.

35:26

The dog clears the area. There's

35:30

nothing.

35:31

I don't know what I feel anymore. Disappointment

35:35

or relief. The

35:38

dog handler wraps up and loads the dog back into

35:40

the van.

35:59

or through the tall grass. That's how hard she's vacuuming

36:02

up the odor when she's in that area. And then she got to one spot

36:04

and then she said, yeah, this is the spot right here. Oh,

36:06

really? Yeah. So unfortunately,

36:09

in that spot, it's so

36:11

thick with stuff, we'd have to get a crew

36:13

in here to cut it out. Yeah. And then

36:15

we have to start pulling soil samples and doing all

36:17

kinds of stuff to do it. It would take

36:20

several days to get it done. And not for

36:22

that first area. So that's something we'll

36:24

have to talk about. Maybe come back in spring and try

36:27

and see if we can do it then. Okay.

36:31

But let's go to the graveyard and see what we can find over

36:33

there. That was the one that's burning in

36:35

my head. I know. I know. Let's see what's going

36:37

on there.

36:44

Now we're going

36:46

to get to buy a car. Not today. No.

37:03

Just as we're pulling into the cemetery, I

37:05

get the feeling of deja vu. And

37:06

then it hits me.

37:10

I've been here before

37:11

the house that this

37:14

happened at, like, has anybody, has

37:16

anybody went there to look it up, like

37:18

check it out or anything? Now,

37:20

so what happened to where they were? I guess they supposedly

37:23

cut her up and put her in the barrel. That's

37:25

Kimmy, JJ's girlfriend. And

37:28

this conversation happens just weeks before this incident

37:31

at the cemetery. She wanted

37:33

to share what she heard. At

37:35

times you'll hear her mom at her own input.

37:43

Or heard multiple houses. Are you

37:45

referring specifically to Don's? Are you referring

37:48

to the glass house? I'm

37:50

referring to the f***

37:51

road. I couldn't

37:57

tell you off of Google Maps, but I can show

37:59

like it has a whole bunch of weeds growing up behind

38:02

it or around it.

38:03

Okay, it's a nice

38:05

graveyard. It's right by the graveyard.

38:09

He's gonna go around all these rooms. If

38:12

he goes to the tent, it's too far. I'm

38:14

gonna go down. Yep.

38:17

There's gonna be a church on the right-hand

38:19

side. Step. Nope,

38:22

that's not it. All

38:24

right, step. Yeah,

38:27

right down the road there. Are

38:30

you about to?

38:40

When Kimmy and her mother were trying to

38:42

explain this location to me, I wasn't able

38:44

to find it on Google Earth. What

38:47

are the odds? The experimental device

38:49

of the forensic archeologists would lead us here.

38:52

On top of that, the owner of the property

38:55

the dog hid on and the gravesite I received

38:57

a pick from the dog handler all

38:59

share the same last name.

39:03

Kimmy, hold on, don't say,

39:05

hold on. Oh, shit.

39:13

Fucking

39:17

weird.

39:20

This is what they were talking about. I've been

39:22

here.

39:22

What the fuck?

39:26

No way. No. That

39:32

is wild. This

39:36

is the cemetery that we're fucking going to for this.

39:40

Kimmy and her mom were trying to get me to understand

39:42

where this location was. I was like, dog, I don't

39:44

see a fucking cemetery.

39:47

His girlfriend was the one that was telling me, cemetery,

39:50

and I kept going on Google Earth up and down the damn

39:52

thing. Yes. I'm not,

39:54

so when I pulled in, I was like, oh, shit.

39:59

All right, this is getting too. bizarre for

40:04

Again, what are the odds? Fuck

40:07

if I know but I imagine it's got to be

40:09

low We stand back and watch

40:12

the handler take over with a certified cadaver dog There's

40:15

a lot of action and the doll looks very excited

40:30

I love you It's

40:37

hard for me to distinguish what I'm seeing but

40:40

when she calms down and sits on

40:42

one spot, I know what

40:44

that means

40:46

And

41:02

she does it there's a hit

41:12

We've got something I

41:27

The dog handler tells me she's alerted on something

41:29

I Watched as the machine

41:31

rolls over the area the dog alerted on Again,

41:35

I stand there holding my breath With

41:39

every second that ticks by my natural

41:41

instincts of questioning everything starts to kick

41:43

in We're in the cemetery after

41:45

all Could this just be a gravesite?

41:48

The dog is alerting to I Continue

41:50

watching it seems like forever. I glanced

41:53

to my right and look at Ethan and Parker and

41:56

I can tell the trying to take it in Everyone's

41:59

on pins and needles I look

42:01

at Jessica and

42:03

she looks like she's seen a ghost. The

42:06

air hangs heavy with anticipation as time stretches,

42:09

dragging on each second. There's palpable

42:11

tension that keeps everyone on edge. He

42:14

rolls the GPR over the area for one last

42:16

pass. He stops and

42:18

everything goes into slow motion. He

42:23

looks up at me. I walk

42:25

towards him. James, there's

42:27

an anomaly here.

42:34

We ran the GPR. We've

42:36

got disturbed earth going out about three or four

42:38

feet from here. We've

42:40

got definitely looks like something here, which

42:43

would be the cremation boxes for the two. And

42:46

then something will go

42:49

there. How far beyond where

42:51

the cremation is in? Oh, it starts almost

42:53

right there and goes back. So

42:55

another 100%? Yeah. And I'm just

42:57

saying, the only way 100% is you've got

42:59

to feel. So

43:03

she's not hitting on any of

43:04

those, which means they're probably well sealed.

43:08

And the caskets are still intact and they're well sealed.

43:11

Whereas are the cremains possible

43:14

that the seals that the cremains are in are disturbed

43:16

or something's wrong with it and the cremains are getting out

43:18

and they're leeching out or whatever, that's possible. When

43:22

they dig these things out, you know, dirt gets disturbed

43:24

all over the place here and then they put the grass back in.

43:27

So that could explain it. It's soft here and then hard,

43:29

soft, hard, soft, hard, soft,

43:32

hard, right all the way down.

43:34

So

43:36

I can't tell you. But whatever

43:38

it is, it seems to be more on this side here

43:40

than it is on this side

43:42

here.

43:44

There's an anomaly on the opposite side of the

43:46

grave to where the casket would be. And

43:49

no, this isn't presenting as a casket.

43:52

It's long and narrow and

43:54

it's not nearly deep enough to be a casket. My

43:58

mind's racing with thoughts. I

44:00

never expected there to be an anomaly. I

44:03

know they say to embrace the unexpected, but

44:05

the possibilities that lie in this unexpected

44:07

discovery makes me uneasy. I

44:11

want a second opinion. I request Sarah

44:13

to make contact with the other Mike. Mike

44:15

from WorkSmart. If you recall,

44:18

Mike completed the GPR for us at Don Hill's

44:21

house. Sarah

44:23

takes on the task, and we have a scheduled time for

44:25

Mike and his team to give us another opinion.

44:28

On the anomalies, the K-19 GPR read. We

44:31

document the discovery and add it

44:33

to the list of things to share with the detective.

44:39

It's absolutely bizarre. It's

44:42

the only word that comes to mind. That's

44:47

awful compelling if she's got it. I only

44:49

recognize this spot because I went

44:51

down Google Earth all the way down to

44:53

those barns and back, I'm like, guys, I don't

44:55

know what you guys are talking about. They're saying it's right

44:57

next to the road.

44:59

Especially in New Grade, you know, 2018. We

45:02

just didn't expect it. We

45:06

don't get that.

45:08

I never get that, actually.

45:16

Integrity. The

45:19

great British writer, C.S. Lewis said, integrity

45:22

is doing the right thing, even when no one is

45:24

watching. I'm sure you've

45:26

heard that a few times. Making smart

45:28

decisions and acting with probity,

45:31

even when it won't make you popular, isn't

45:33

always easy. But what

45:35

does it say about a person's integrity when

45:37

they choose to act without integrity when

45:40

someone is watching? Months

45:43

before our trip to Surgis, we were approached

45:45

by someone who claimed to have evidence and

45:47

information. After Sarah had a few conversations

45:50

with them, we all sat down together

45:52

via video chat to discuss things and

45:54

to look over the documents and evidence he gathered.

45:58

The more we discuss things, we

46:00

realized he had no idea what he had

46:03

and more so he had no idea

46:05

what he knew. About

46:08

an hour into our discussion, Sarah

46:10

and I are awestruck when he casually says,

46:14

Yeah,

46:15

I watched Ashley delete Bernice Facebook account.

46:18

She was really excited she finally got in. I

46:21

was sitting right next to her. At

46:24

this juncture, we decided getting together

46:26

when I'm in town would be beneficial. We

46:29

set up a meeting for October. When

46:31

the day finally arrives, I wasn't sure I was going

46:33

to make it back to the Airbnb to meet him. The

46:36

day had proven to be exceedingly busy with

46:38

an abundance of tasks demanding completion, ultimately

46:41

pushing us to the very limit in terms of time. I'm

46:44

pretty sure Ethan and his brother were white-knuckling it

46:47

on our way back to the house. I

46:49

hear police sirens and I see the lights

46:51

in the rearview mirror. Just

46:53

what I needed. This is not how

46:56

I wanted to end my day. And clearly,

46:58

I should have been more careful about checking

47:00

my speed. And I'd like to say

47:02

I didn't think I was speeding. But

47:04

on the bright side, we were actually pulled over

47:06

right outside the house. After

47:10

that whole debacle, we all had

47:12

to sit down and talk. It's

47:14

always awesome meeting people in person when you've been

47:16

speaking to them by video chat.

47:20

Just want to make sure that's clear for you guys so you guys don't have

47:22

to worry about approach addressing that.

47:24

Hey, man.

47:25

Hey, man. Nice to meet you, man. Yeah,

47:28

nice to meet you. Your

47:31

guys' relationship started during what

47:33

time? It would have been approximately

47:36

March of 2019. And

47:40

it ended in late December of

47:42

the same year. When

47:44

I met her, she had three days to get

47:46

out of the apartment at the

47:48

apartments there in Sturgis. And

47:52

she didn't do anything, didn't do anything. And

47:54

then the day that the cops came to make her leave, they

47:57

started throwing her shit out on the

47:59

side of the road.

47:59

and I felt pity

48:02

for her so I tried to help and

48:04

it turned into she just never left and

48:06

then it got real bad from there so

48:09

originally she went to a hotel she had

48:11

a pretty good sum of money out of her the

48:15

cash? oh yeah, oh yeah

48:18

three to four thousand

48:22

let's get to the time of after there's

48:24

a period in time where in July we

48:27

know that Ashley accesses Britney's accounts,

48:29

she's admitted it but you were

48:31

actually with her during the time and you remember

48:36

what happened?

48:39

she was altering things it

48:42

wasn't just her going through like investigating

48:44

something I

48:48

physically watched her delete messages she adjusted

48:53

things is the

48:56

only way I know how to put it like trying

48:58

to leave things out, hide shit you

49:02

physically saw this with your own eyes, you were there, you witnessed

49:04

it what would you recall

49:07

from that time frame about her accessing it? I

49:09

mean she got into it and she got real weird

49:12

like she separated herself from me, didn't want

49:14

me around like she wanted

49:16

a room to herself which

49:21

I thought was weird I don't

49:23

know, I wouldn't, I'd be a part of it but she

49:26

distanced herself but I

49:28

still had to sleep in that room and

49:31

I was in there and that's when I

49:33

saw her messages during

49:36

Britney's messages? yeah

49:39

specifically I've always wondered about her conversation

49:42

history with Britney her specifically yeah

49:45

do you recall her in that account? that's

49:47

the part that she spent the most time in

49:50

her messages with Brit I

49:53

know that she was, it wasn't like she deleted

49:55

the whole conversation she deleted

49:58

messages

49:59

Did you ever see what the message has said? No.

50:03

What position are you in to be able to see this?

50:07

I'm laying with my head on the pillow

50:09

and she's sitting up more on the bed and

50:12

she's doing this. So I mean I can't see

50:14

exactly what the message has said

50:16

but I can see the profile picture and

50:19

the name.

50:21

And did you ever say like a Y? She

50:25

brought up in all the life. She was a huge fighter. She

50:27

would not disclose anything.

50:32

Our discussion goes well. We hear

50:35

a lot of information that's helpful and

50:37

fills in missing pieces to our puzzle. Tomorrow

50:39

is our last day here and we need to get some sleep.

50:42

So we turn in early. Well, early

50:45

is a relative stay event. But

50:48

it was early for us. Laying

50:50

in bed. I'm thinking

50:52

about everything that's gone on this week and

50:55

the success we've had. All

50:57

of our discoveries, the new relationships

50:59

we've formed and the help we've received

51:02

and seeing my hope of canine searches become

51:05

a reality. The canine

51:07

team and the forensic archaeologists leave early tomorrow

51:10

and they've been wonderful to work with. The

51:12

amount of knowledge and experience I've gained around

51:15

them is priceless. Serenad

51:22

thought it would be wise to set up a meeting with Detective

51:25

Otten, the detective working on Brittany's

51:27

case. If for

51:29

nothing more than to show him what we're working on

51:32

and share the work we've done with Mike and Sean

51:34

from the GPR company. At

51:36

this point, Serenad have gone over the

51:38

entire case file. We found key discrepancies

51:41

and important testimonies missing. We

51:44

want to make sure we share this with him. He

51:47

shows his support and says to keep him in

51:49

the loop until we arrive. Once

51:51

I'm in town, Detective Otten comes to our Airbnb

51:54

and we meet with him for just over 90 minutes. It's

51:57

a good introduction for all of us. We

52:00

were able to share everything we planned to and made

52:02

plans for future conversations. This

52:06

line of work can sometimes jade you, weighing

52:09

heavily on your spirit. It

52:12

has the power to sow doubt in your mind about people's

52:14

intentions and hidden motives. It

52:17

can make you question the existence of genuine

52:19

and trustworthy people. However,

52:23

this week has revealed a glimmer of hope and

52:25

reminded me that goodness still prevails,

52:28

the unwavering dedication of the K-9 team,

52:31

the meticulous efforts of the forensic archaeologist,

52:35

and the cooperation of the property owners,

52:37

business owners, and citizens of Sturgis

52:39

have left an undeniable impression

52:42

on our entire team. Their

52:44

selflessness and commitment to a family

52:47

most of them have never met

52:48

proves

52:50

that compassion and kindness can

52:52

prevail. Even

52:54

in the face of sorrow, grief,

52:58

and uncertainty.

53:24

The

53:28

Hide and Seek Podcast is hosted,

53:31

directed, edited, and

53:33

produced by James Basinger.

53:36

Written, edited, and produced

53:40

by Sarah Zhou. Engineered,

53:42

mixed, and mastered by

53:44

Newton's

53:44

Audio Engineering.

53:47

Director of Photography is Ethan

53:49

Schatz. Our graphic

53:51

design is created by Jordan Robinson.

53:57

A special thanks to all those involved in

53:59

our ground team. To our patreon

54:01

supporters. Thank you for helping

54:03

make our investigations possible

54:11

Thank you for listening to Harder Think

54:14

and then peace

54:15

out