0:00

Hello friends, and welcome to episode one

0:02

hundred and seventy seven of just the

0:04

Zuobas. This week, I spoke with

0:06

a paleontology Reese searcher and

0:08

fellow Floridian about some of our favorite

0:10

ancient reptiles. We discussed

0:13

the arcusor family tree flower

0:15

picking other crocodilian leisure

0:17

activities. What to do if you find

0:19

yourself in the chomp zone and

0:22

falling in love at a punk crock

0:24

concert? Just the Zumas presents

0:26

American crocodiles with Alec

1:01

Hello friends. This is Ellen Weatherford.

1:03

This is just the zoo of us, your favorite animal

1:06

review podcast in this week.

1:08

I am very thrilled to be introducing to

1:10

you a Florida friend.

1:13

This is Alec Baines. Say hi Alec.

1:15

177. And Alec, what are your pronouns real

1:18

quick? My pronouns are they them or he

1:20

him. My gender is fluidly in that zone,

1:22

so either or both are fine. Thank

1:25

you so much. And this week,

1:27

we are talking about an animal

1:29

that's here that we don't necessarily

1:31

know is here because I think it gets overshadowed a

1:34

lot. Partially my fault. I'm sure.

1:36

I'm definitely a hype girl for the alligators,

1:38

so maybe I'm the problem. But

1:41

this week, we're talking about the American crocodile.

1:44

But before we talk about the crocodile, let's

1:46

talk about Alec a little bit. What

1:49

got you into the work that you do with these

1:51

wild creatures. Yeah. So

1:54

as a science communicator and

1:56

paleobiologists, I kind of think

1:58

all animals both extinct and

2:00

modern are really fascinating in their own

2:02

ways as well as being able to talk with people about

2:04

them. But this group of animals

2:07

called arcosores really sparked my interest

2:09

I am Florian like you are. Arcusors

2:12

are a group that includes Terraceors

2:14

and dinosaurs, but also their modern relatives,

2:17

the Baines, and cadilians, which

2:19

in Florida, you have a lot of

2:21

birds and crocodilians that end up in your pool.

2:26

you really develop an appreciation for

2:28

them. You know, now that I've lived outside of Florida,

2:30

I've really seen how special it is

2:32

that Although Florida Wildlife encroaches

2:35

on a lot of human territory, we

2:37

also encroach on a lot of theirs, and

2:39

it gets a lot of mutual respect

2:41

going as well as understanding and

2:44

getting to see this giant

2:46

ten foot reptile just hanging

2:48

out in the neighborhood really will get you

2:51

interested in what's going on in their head.

2:53

You know, it's so funny. I see so many

2:56

people who are just like really really

2:58

passionate about, like, wildlife science.

3:00

I feel like Florida is a hot bed

3:02

for it. Oh, yeah. And it makes total

3:04

sense. Like, you have to check the window

3:06

in the morning sometimes to take the tree frogs

3:09

off. Like, it is there's such

3:11

a strong connection to wildlife whether

3:13

or not it's curious for that to be in your life

3:15

when you live in Florida. Oh, it will

3:17

make itself known. It will reclaim that

3:19

space while you're still in it.

3:22

Absolutely. It's like a lot of

3:24

times like a post apocalyptic, like

3:27

Baines or movies or whatever, you know,

3:29

there will be anime moles and plants

3:31

that are just, like, retaking over the human

3:33

built structures and stuff. And Florida

3:36

is, like, we're not gonna wait for the apocalypse, actually.

3:38

Just gonna go ahead and get started. The

3:41

Florida man has already decided that we're living

3:43

in that we've accepted it. We're already

3:45

one with a bog.

3:49

I wanna go back to that word that you said arcusors.

3:52

Tell me more about this word arcusor. So

3:55

if you think about animals being in kind

3:57

of different

3:57

groups, know, when say cat, you're probably

3:59

are thinking about a house cat, but technically cats

4:02

also include tigers. Right? So

4:04

arcosaurus is kind of that big umbrella that

4:06

includes four, but really

4:08

three different main groups in it. So you've got

4:10

pterosaurus, which are the flying prehistoric

4:13

animals that people think are dinosaurs, but they're

4:15

not actually dinosaurs. So things like pterodac.

4:18

Pitry. Yep. Petry from line before time.

4:20

And then you've got dinosaurs,

4:22

which nowadays we know also includes

4:25

Baines a smaller group within it. So

4:27

all birds are dinosaurs but not all dinosaurs are

4:29

birds. And then you've got crocodilians,

4:32

which even though they look more like lizards,

4:34

their closest living relatives are

4:36

birds. This is

4:38

mind boggling to me, and I remember, like, the

4:40

American alligator was the first

4:42

animal we ever did an episode on for

4:44

this podcast. And having

4:47

sort of grown up with a with an appreciation for

4:49

them, but never really doing a deep dive until

4:51

like their taxonomy or

4:54

evolutionary history. I guess

4:56

I had just always been under the assumption

4:58

that they were just big lizards 177 it's

5:01

really easy to me. I didn't even know until I

5:03

hit college actually that they're in the same group.

5:05

I was like, well, I like these two distantly related

5:07

animals, I guess. I was like, no. I actually do really

5:09

like this group. But the reasons I like

5:11

both of them is also a lot of the

5:13

ways that we can see behaviorally

5:15

how similar they are. Even though

5:17

they look different on the outside, Both

5:19

of them have really high parental

5:21

care, which is unusual for reptiles. They

5:24

make masks. Their young

5:26

will sing out to them. I mean, Crocodilians

5:28

will take care of their young multiple

5:30

years in some species. You've

5:33

even seen play behaviors nowadays in

5:35

live in crocodilians. Oh my gosh.

5:37

Really? Yeah. Oh my

5:39

gosh. That's so cute. It was actually

5:41

He's a cousin to the American crocodile,

5:43

the Cuban crocodile has been confirmed

5:45

of showing play behaviors as

5:47

well as like anecdotal evidence. So

5:49

kind of people saying that they

5:51

saw the play behaviors in America

5:54

alligators as well as

5:54

guardrails, which is someone who has worked with American

5:57

Alligators, I can totally see that

5:59

happening. I guess I've only ever seen

6:01

them in an extremely chill

6:03

situation. You know, like, every time

6:05

I see them, they're just laying there,

6:07

basking, you know,

6:09

like flourishing, moisturized in their

6:11

lane focus 177 they're

6:14

just I never really see them doing

6:16

much of

6:16

anything. What does play

6:18

look like in a crocodilian? A

6:20

lot of the same ways that we

6:22

see it in mammals, honestly. In

6:24

the cuban crocodile example,

6:27

it was a person 177 believe

6:29

at Zoo that

6:31

saw one of them that had gotten 177 ball.

6:33

It was actually just playing around with

6:35

it, moving it. There was no

6:37

way trying to get food out of it or moving it

6:40

out of its way. It was just playing as

6:42

far as we could tell. With the

6:44

ball and similar stories, I've

6:46

heard about Ariel's and American

6:48

alligators with flowers falling into

6:50

water where they'll just kind of pick it up and they

6:52

won't eat it, they won't chew it, they'll just kind of maybe

6:54

toss it around a little bit or nose

6:57

it So learn to like a cat playing

6:59

with a cat. So Oh my goodness. That's

7:01

how we just live on so much of like a

7:03

slower longer life

7:05

than we do. That it's hard for

7:07

us to see this because we miss it. We don't

7:09

wait around to see what's going on. I'm

7:11

just the thought of a little

7:13

crocodile just literally

7:16

picking flowers. That's the

7:18

cutest thing I've ever heard of my life.

7:20

All the artists listening, I I

7:22

always try to throw in a fan art prompt

7:24

that's a good one right there. Little crocodile

7:26

just picking a little bouquet of flowers. I

7:29

would love to see that. And,

7:31

hey, in their prehistoric

7:34

past, There were actually crocodilian

7:36

and crocodilian relatives that

7:38

were bipedal meaning they walked on two

7:40

legs and some that were even herbivorous, meaning

7:42

they ate plants. So

7:44

maybe there was a prehistoric crocodile

7:47

or crocodile relative that, like, picking

7:49

flowers. Who knows? So the

7:51

princess in the frog was right. Oh,

7:53

absolutely. With Louis, the

7:55

gator that runs around on two

7:57

feet, although I honestly think that

8:00

with his behavior, he maybe should have been

8:02

a crocodile because

8:04

American crocodiles are a lot more vocal

8:06

than American alligators. Now

8:09

do American crocodiles live in Louisiana? That

8:12

is the rub. That is the rub. Okay. Florida

8:14

is the only place in the world where

8:16

alligators and crocodiles of any kind

8:18

share the same habitat. So

8:20

American crocodiles live from kind of

8:23

south and starting to become central parts

8:25

of Central Florida even, all the way

8:27

down through Central America

8:29

and even parts of South America, I believe.

8:31

Okay. So you will see them in the

8:33

US on a sort of a technicality. Yeah.

8:36

Yeah. They're just in Florida. We're we're

8:38

the special part of the US that got the

8:40

privilege of having American crocodiles even though

8:42

we always seem to forget that they're there.

8:44

Number one, most crocodilians, Baines.

8:47

Yes. National

8:49

Champions. In number of

8:51

crocodilians 177- Yes.

8:53

-- which is is a

8:55

contest that I like us winning. Okay.

8:57

So do the gators and the crocodiles get

9:00

along or is there beef there?

9:03

Kind of yes and no. I

9:05

like to describe the American crocodiles

9:07

as the spicier of the

9:08

two. There. I I

9:10

don't like to use the words, like, aggressive

9:13

or mean.

9:13

Just to kind of putting human morals

9:15

and behavior onto the animal. They

9:18

have a larger personal bubble than ever

9:20

technology used to. But they

9:22

have been seen, like, basking in

9:24

the sun on banks together. They

9:26

do have some overlap in brackish water

9:28

because American alligators stick to

9:30

fresh water and sometimes brackish water, which

9:32

is a mixture of salt water and freshwater.

9:35

And American cocktails actually

9:37

prefer that mixture of saltwater and fresh water,

9:39

called radish water. They can also extend

9:41

out to just saltwater. So They

9:43

have some overlap. They tend

9:45

to stay away from each other, but

9:47

they also aren't constantly having turf wars

9:49

with each other.

9:50

It sounds to me like the gators are

9:53

more the inland, sort of

9:55

like 177 ones, and then the

9:57

crocodiles are more like along the coast,

9:59

it sounds like. Absolutely standard.

10:01

Think of Everblades plus the

10:03

coast of South

10:04

Florida. I'm starting to see some

10:06

reports online. I'm not sure how verified

10:08

they are that even as far north

10:10

as Melbourne seems to have some

10:12

sightings, which -- Wow. --

10:14

it was predicted that with rising

10:17

temperatures in Florida that

10:20

they would start to expand the range a

10:22

little bit farther north. I'm not sure if it's

10:24

gone quite that far up yet or if perhaps those

10:26

are misidentifications. But if

10:28

you're looking for American crocodile,

10:30

stick to the coast or better yet the

10:32

everglades and you're more likely to see one.

10:34

On the topic of misidentification and

10:36

identification in general, let's say

10:38

you're looking at one of these big chunky

10:40

guys, and you are trying to figure out if

10:42

what you're looking at is a gator or

10:44

a crocodile. What are some signs

10:46

you can look for? So the three

10:48

best ways to tell the difference between

10:50

alligators and crocodiles are

10:52

gonna be their head shape, their teeth,

10:55

and their color. So that

10:57

head shape is gonna be much more of a

10:59

triangle on a crocodile. Where as an

11:01

alligator, it's a bit more of an oval, give some more

11:03

of that puppy dog face to them.

11:05

So cute. Absolutely

11:07

adorable. It's

11:07

like the the round toe versus a

11:10

pointed toe shoe to be.

11:12

Yes. It is very much that round versus pointed

11:14

toe shoe. And then

11:16

for the teeth, if you see

11:18

teeth sticking out, kind of

11:20

upper and lower, that's gonna be a crocodile.

11:22

Or if you see teeth not sticking out or

11:24

you might just see a couple on the top that are a

11:26

little bit longer sticking out, that's gonna be an

11:28

alligator. So lots of teeth crock,

11:30

you don't see them smiling at you, if that's an

11:32

alligator. At least with her mouth closed. I

11:34

think of,

11:34

like, snaggle tooth. Like, of the

11:37

comp style, it's more, like, more snaggle

11:39

tooth looking. Yes. They they're the ones that

11:41

need to go to the orthodontist. They're

11:43

they can't contain all the teeth. They're just so

11:45

full of them that they're just bursting from the

11:48

mouth. Yes. And then

11:50

a color, which is a little bit more

11:52

subjective. I don't like to use it

11:54

as a great way to go by.

11:56

Crocodiles and have a lighter, more like an olive

11:58

or kind of yellowish tinge

12:01

to their bodies, whereas the

12:03

American allegator turns out that darker

12:05

kind of grayish green to them. But,

12:07

like, one person's grayish green is another

12:09

person's yellow green. Yeah. So

12:11

I'd say stick with the other two for identification

12:13

if you can. Also, like, a

12:15

lot of times they're in pretty murky

12:17

water. So it's gonna be kinda tough to get a

12:19

read on the color anyway. They're

12:21

always gonna be, like, hiding either in,

12:23

like, muddy water or like underneath a

12:25

lot of, like, water vegetation. So

12:28

if you're seeing enough of it that you can

12:30

see these things, you're probably

12:32

already in a tight spot. And if they

12:34

have the mud from the muddy water on

12:36

them and Good luck finding the color

12:38

underneath. And also, if you see one

12:40

and you're pausing to think, I wonder if

12:42

this is an alligator or crocodile. Just go ahead

12:44

and start turning around. Just go ahead and

12:46

start walking away and maybe figure it out

12:48

later. Especially if you're close enough to see

12:50

if the teeth sticking out, that's a good

12:52

warning sign. You're a

12:54

little too close. Did you hear

12:56

growing up being someone who

12:58

grew up in Florida? Were you

13:00

always told to run zigzag away

13:02

from a from an outdoors? Yes.

13:05

Why? Or I

13:07

feel like it's special thinking. So

13:10

there I mean, there is some

13:13

there is some truth to, like, alligators are

13:15

slower on lands. However, until

13:17

they reach a certain body size

13:19

when their adult young ones can

13:21

actually gallop, meaning running with

13:23

all four limbs off the ground.

13:25

That's spectacular. Yeah.

13:28

So if they're a young one, that's really not gonna

13:30

help. And even the older ones,

13:32

they're good enough at turning and

13:34

they're not you're not gonna be taking

13:36

such long, sharp turns that is really

13:38

going to affect them spending time to

13:40

turn that's gonna help you out. If

13:42

you are that close, if you can climb a

13:44

tree, that's honestly the better solution

13:47

is climb a tree and wait for them to

13:49

get distracted by something else.

13:51

Or just don't get that close, but they

13:53

do hide pretty well. So They do

13:55

sometimes you just stuck. But

13:58

also, I found in my experience that a lot of

14:00

times you're not going to be in a

14:02

lengthy chase with like a

14:04

gator or I don't know about crocodiles. You

14:06

mentioned that crocodiles are a little feistier. But with

14:08

gators at least, if you can put, like,

14:10

fifty feet between you and the gator, they'll probably

14:12

be, like, whatever. Absolutely.

14:14

I mean, there's the double whammy

14:16

of rep tiles and carnivores, both of

14:18

which need to conserve their energy.

14:20

If that reptile is

14:22

getting whatever energy they can, maybe it's

14:24

a cold day, they don't have that extra energy

14:26

to spend on, hey, I need to

14:28

scare you farther away from my nest

14:30

or, hey, I'm really hungry and I might

14:32

be able to take you on as food. And

14:34

the other part is that they're a carnivore. Carnivores

14:37

are wimps. They have to be

14:39

177 and if a prey item and

14:42

herbivore gets injured, they

14:44

can why their hope they don't get

14:46

taken down and eat the food around

14:48

them. If a hardcore gets

14:50

injured, they can't take down

14:52

food to give their body that ex or

14:54

nutrients and energy to help them heal if

14:56

they're in a bad

14:56

way. So they have to kind of be

14:59

wimps about their rattles. You could just

15:00

run. Absolutely. Just get

15:03

away as fast as you can.

15:05

Don't think about zigzagging. It's

15:08

gonna waste everyone's time. Is

15:10

so funny that they tell, like, every

15:12

kid. I don't

15:15

know what kind of folk wisdom this is,

15:17

but we need to stop. Which is While

15:20

considering that the entire

15:22

what's now a tourist attraction

15:24

of Gator wrestling came from

15:27

Florida Pioneer's figuring out how

15:29

to defend themselves from alligators

15:31

and crocodiles and get them off of their

15:33

grazing pastures for their cattle. So how

15:35

did we get from figuring out how to

15:37

knock out an a ten foot gater

15:39

to telling kids to run six

15:41

pack. Something got lost in

15:43

translation at some point, I fear.

15:45

So We're

15:48

talking about crocodile specifically

15:50

today because they don't get enough hype.

15:52

They're overshadowed unfortunately by

15:54

their Baines Cousins So

15:56

if this is your first time ever listening to

15:58

this podcast, what we do is we review

16:00

animals by rating them out of ten.

16:02

In the categories of effectiveness, ingenuity,

16:05

and aesthetics. So first category effectiveness,

16:07

this is like how well their body is

16:09

adapted physically to do the

16:11

things that they're trying to do. This is a predatory

16:13

animal, so maybe things that are

16:15

built into their body that let them catch

16:17

their prey. Things that allow them to not

16:19

become prey themselves, anything

16:21

like that that's carrying them through to

16:23

the next day basically. What do you

16:25

give American crocodile? Out

16:27

of ten for effectiveness. I'm

16:29

gonna give them an eight. They have a

16:32

lot of good adaptations and

16:34

one big downside. Oh, boy.

16:36

So as we've mentioned already,

16:38

they're a little bit feistier than

16:40

some of the other crocodilians. And

16:43

that kinda helps them out. It's easier

16:45

to defend a territory from another predator

16:47

if you're more likely to defend

16:49

it. They are Apex

16:51

predators there at the top of the food chain

16:53

also makes them incredibly important. I

16:55

called them kind of the saltwater guardians

16:57

of Florida, whereas American alligators are the

16:59

freshwater guardians. So nowhere is

17:01

safe. Yeah. No worries

17:03

safe from them, but also everything is safe because

17:05

of them. Yeah. Because

17:08

they are the top of the food chain, so they

17:11

keep everything in balance. They

17:13

keep the other animals, the

17:15

herbivores, the fish, things

17:17

like that. At lower numbers so they

17:19

don't eat up all the plants and then everyone

17:21

177. They're actually really important

17:23

for a death conservation

17:26

of birds and Florida we have a lot of endangered and threatened

17:28

species of birds. And birds

17:30

will actually make their nests

17:32

near both American alligator as well as

17:34

American crocodiles hang

17:36

out because even though, yeah, one of

17:38

you might fall out of a nasty get

17:40

eaten overall other animals like raccoons

17:42

that might climb that tree get to your nest

17:44

are not gonna mess with that crocodile. Especially,

17:47

the crocodile is more likely to go after you

17:49

than an alligator. even live around

17:52

mangroves. Mangroves are really important

17:55

for young fish to develop.

17:57

A large adult alligator is gonna go after

17:59

some small fry. They might chase us say,

18:01

a larger fish that we eat those. And

18:03

eat them those through it instead. So

18:05

they are really good

18:08

at both feeding themselves as

18:10

well as kinda keeping the whole

18:12

ecosystem in check. They also are

18:14

almost able to see

18:16

without eyesight. Crocodilians, one of my favorite

18:18

things about them, and one thing is I'm actually

18:20

researching, are probably as dome

18:22

pressure receptors. Mhmm. Are these little

18:24

organs underneath their skin. You can see

18:26

it really well in the hatchlings. It

18:28

looks kind of like freckles all around

18:30

their mouth. It looks like blackheads.

18:32

Yes. Yes. Or blackheads. So

18:34

either an acne treatment or 177 day out design

18:36

to take a look. But

18:39

those little dome pressure receptors

18:41

are these organs that

18:43

stay within the skin as

18:45

they grow, it's harder to see them get older with darker

18:47

colored skin, but they're still there. They can

18:49

sense a rain drop hitting the surface of the

18:51

water as easily as

18:54

one of us could see the

18:56

alligator like coming towards us or someone tapping

18:58

you on your shoulder. Mhmm. They are

19:01

immensely sensitive so because of that even

19:03

living in murky water, that gives

19:05

them the advantage of being able to hide from things

19:07

that could otherwise see them, but they

19:09

can also sneak up without having to rely

19:11

on their own eyesight and catch

19:13

those animals that things are hidden in the

19:15

water. Oh, that's really cool.

19:18

I mean, 177 they get to a certain size, who's gonna be sneaking up on

19:20

them? It does help

19:22

them get to that size though. As a reason

19:24

they have really good parental

19:26

care, and that mama crock has to take

19:28

care of so many little babies that

19:30

are really hard to see in the water and

19:32

are very easy prey for other animals

19:34

They can help her kind of track where

19:36

they are 177 what can be coming towards them.

19:39

So it helps them to get up to that larger

19:41

size where nothing is really gonna mess with them. Is

19:43

that maybe another if it's a male

19:45

crocodile defending a territory, maybe another

19:47

male challenging them for it. A lot of

19:49

times with Gators, they float like, right

19:51

at the top of the water with their little nostrils and their

19:54

eyeballs poking out. Rest of the body is

19:56

submerged. They're kind of relying on camouflage.

19:58

177 then they wait for something to get closer

20:01

and then all in one 177. Sort

20:03

of they just, like, burst out of the water,

20:05

chomp down on something, and then might

20:07

do like a death roll. something like

20:09

that. Is this similar to what the

20:11

what the crocodiles are doing as well? Yeah.

20:14

They're able to do very

20:16

similar hunting behaviors.

20:18

It's more of where they're hunting. That's the big difference as well as

20:20

they can go out into open water as

20:22

well. Now this is interesting to

20:24

me. Okay. Because I'm I'm so

20:26

used to seeing Crocodilians in a

20:29

more, like, swampy river

20:31

sort of scenario. And so imagining

20:33

one just, like, swimming out, like, at

20:35

the beach I feel like is

20:37

maybe a terrifying visual. A

20:39

little bit yes or no, it's

20:41

the same thing with kind of any kind of war at the

20:43

beach, it's a shark or possibly a

20:45

crocodile, just give them their

20:47

space and they'll give you yours. Yeah.

20:49

Because like you said, they're a carnivore. They don't

20:51

wanna get into a fight that they're gonna

20:53

lose. So this is something else

20:55

about crocodilians that I've always this may be one

20:57

of those things that's like a thing you tell kids

20:59

in Florida once 177. But the idea

21:01

that, like, they have this really, really powerful

21:03

bite. Right? They can chop down really, really

21:06

hard, but the the mouth opening muscles

21:08

are not very strong at all. And so

21:11

you get like a lot of times you'll see like videos

21:13

or something of somebody just kind of with

21:15

one hand and not even

21:17

holding that hard. You can just kinda like hold their mouth

21:19

shut very easily. So

21:21

that's actually a fun Florida

21:24

tourism tip. A lot of

21:26

the times you'll see, you know, photos

21:28

in alligator and they have, like, all this

21:30

tape over their mouth or rubber

21:31

bands. It's really not

21:32

necessary. It's mostly security

21:35

theater for you to feel safer because

21:38

they in general cannot open their

21:40

mouth. Like you said, crocodilians are

21:42

really great at closing their mouth. They kind

21:44

of put all their eggs in that basket and it takes

21:46

them a while to open it again. That's

21:48

actually another good survival

21:50

strategy. If you have a crack dealing coming

21:52

app, you use If you can get it to bite down on

21:54

something like a stick, at least it'll take a

21:56

while for it to open up its mouth once it

21:58

catches up to you. You know, they're

22:00

they're big creatures, but with

22:02

them being so big, they're also a little bit

22:04

lumbering. You

22:04

know, they're not exactly a swift

22:07

sprinter's. Agile in the water,

22:09

not on land. That's true. And

22:11

so if you can get one out enough

22:13

on land, now you're on your home territory,

22:16

got the home field

22:16

advantage. They're in your house

22:19

now. I like

22:19

it Stacky odds in your favor.

22:21

I did mention there was kind of one drawback

22:24

they have, why they have an eight rather than ten, you know,

22:26

these amazing Apex routers,

22:28

they can go out and go open water, they have this strong

22:31

bite. They are not cold

22:33

resistance. Oh, no.

22:35

And that's why they have had

22:37

a lot harder time coming back from

22:39

the brink of extinction. In

22:41

the nineteen both American alligators and American crocodiles

22:44

were on the endangered species list. They

22:46

were possibly going to become extinct

22:48

and through a lot of

22:50

captive breeding programs through even a

22:53

lot of zoos. They were able

22:55

to come back up in numbers, but alligators

22:57

have had a lot easier time

22:59

because you think about Florida, There's a

23:01

lot of opportunities for salt and

23:03

brackish water everywhere, but

23:05

it does get colder, the closer you get to

23:07

North Florida. And American alligators are

23:09

able to stand a lot wider

23:11

range of temperatures

23:13

than American crocodiles can.

23:16

So they have a lot harder time. If there's a

23:18

cold front coming through, it's gonna take them a lot

23:20

longer time to get back on their feet from that.

23:22

If they didn't eat before that

23:24

or maybe to eat something and kind of sitting in their stomach rotting rather

23:27

than digesting because they're cold. That

23:29

can really mess with them too. So

23:31

they have the achilles heel of not a lot of cold tolerance.

23:34

Really create saltwater tolerance though.

23:36

They're one of only two

23:38

crocodilians are adapted to live completely in saltwater.

23:40

The other one being the famous saltwater crocodiles,

23:43

that's David one made famous.

23:45

Yeah. Those are the Australian ones. Right?

23:48

Yes. Yeah. They're really

23:50

cool. I guess I should have asked earlier, but in

23:52

terms of size, what are the American

23:54

crocodiles typically looking at? How big do they

23:56

get? They're around the same size as

23:58

American alligators, around nine to

24:00

sixteen feet in length. With adult males being

24:02

on a larger end than adult females.

24:04

So they can get real big.

24:06

Yeah. I think I've worked with alligators too

24:08

long. I'm like, They're not that bad. Like,

24:10

nine to sixteen feet. I

24:12

know. Out of context,

24:14

that sounds terrifying. But

24:17

here's the thing with the with

24:19

crocodilian length. They're not wide.

24:21

No. No.

24:23

They're very much more pencil shaped

24:25

than the alligators. Yeah. They're a

24:27

little more they're kinda streamlined. So

24:30

when you're looking at a gator that's, like,

24:32

nine feet long, that sounds like a huge number.

24:34

But, you know, a lot of that is snout

24:36

and tail. Right? So it's it's a little less

24:39

intimidating when you see one in person. You're like, that's what nine

24:41

feet long looks like. Yeah.

24:43

It's not just nine

24:46

feet of just skull. It is nine feet,

24:48

including head and torso in a

24:50

very long tail. Yeah.

24:53

And so they go stubby little legs too.

24:55

Those stubby little fingers.

24:57

They're cute. So they are kind of

24:59

built tank like. You know,

25:01

like, they're like, covered in these, like, bony

25:05

scales with this really, really tough

25:07

skin that you can really tell the difference

25:09

from, like, lizards, I suppose. And, like, the

25:11

skin the skin is just, like,

25:14

impenetrable. 177 that

25:16

is one of the main things that really helps

25:18

them as they're developing. If they're young,

25:20

they have them, they're small, but as they get older, they

25:22

get so much larger, and I

25:24

cover his larger part of the body. It's also has keratin

25:26

all over it, a smaller to an

25:28

armadillo, another animal we've seen in

25:31

Florida. Which has bone covered

25:33

in skin that has keratin in it. Carrapine is

25:35

that same stuff that's in your fingernails, your

25:37

hair, or rhino horn is made out of it, so

25:39

it can be really strong. So a

25:41

combination of those bony tank

25:44

like plates called osteodurms, then

25:46

they have skin on top of

25:48

it. It has territain, that really

25:50

strong stuff in your fingernails rhino

25:52

that is a tank of a reptile

25:55

billionaire. You're not bringing this thing

25:57

down without a fight. No.

26:00

And, you know, a lot of times, you'll

26:02

see pictures or videos or something

26:04

online of, like, maybe a

26:06

hair in or something that has picked off a very very

26:08

young gator. But the

26:10

window of time that you

26:12

have to get a gator when it's small enough that

26:14

you could do something like that 177

26:16

readily narrow. Oh, yeah. It's very small.

26:18

And that's also why they probably have

26:21

large clutches of eggs is

26:23

not everyone's gonna make it.

26:25

But enough of them do make it to once

26:27

they hit around three feet, there's not much

26:30

else besides maybe another

26:32

larger alligator or crocodile that's

26:34

gonna come for them. And then once they like, six

26:36

feet, no one's really 177 mess with them except for

26:38

territory fights. Or maybe

26:40

perhaps someone that really wants some cater tail

26:42

that

26:42

night. Have you had eight or two? I

26:45

have. It's fine. It is like

26:47

fishy chicken, and I'm not a fan of

26:49

fish. Exactly what

26:51

I said. That's word for

26:53

word, I think. Exactly how I feel about it.

26:55

It's just it's fine. You

26:57

know? Like, you can have it if you want

26:59

a gimmick. But, like, I don't know people who,

27:01

like, eat it regularly. You

27:03

know, it's not like a it's like a thing you

27:05

get to just say you've done it, I

27:07

guess. And you have to get it somewhere

27:10

that knows how to cook it. If you get it

27:12

anywhere that's like advertising it

27:14

at like a tourist attraction,

27:16

it's gonna be rubbery. Isn't it like rubbery fishy chicken

27:18

nuggets and no one wants that? Now you gotta

27:20

get it in a fish camp. Yeah. Like a

27:22

fish camp will know how to cook it.

27:24

But it's still gonna be just fishy chicken.

27:27

No. You gotta eat it at a place

27:29

that's got a dock. Yes. They have

27:31

boat parking in the back. That's where you

27:33

gotta eat Gaitrito. Yes. If you

27:35

can go out and see where they're pulling in

27:37

the gators, that's where you get it.

27:39

If you can if you can see

27:41

the gators from your seat at the

27:43

restaurant. Yes.

27:46

It's fine. You know, like, there's like

27:48

actual seafood you can eat here that's delicious.

27:51

So just go for that instead. Great one to go for

27:53

is lionfish. I've heard that Steve

27:55

Casey is an invasive species in Florida,

27:57

if you haven't heard about that problem. And

28:01

It's a good tasty healthy meal and it's helping

28:03

the Florida ecosystem and it doesn't taste like

28:05

fishy chicken. And the government is literally

28:07

begging you to eat lionfish. They're like,

28:11

Please come kill and eat our lionfish. Yes.

28:13

And it's still a cool, like, oh, I'm eating

28:15

this venomous animal. Like, you still get the

28:17

street cred for it. That's true. It's still like

28:19

a novelty, you know. It's still something

28:22

cool and 177 exciting and

28:23

fun. So eat lionfish instead.

28:26

Gator Tail is just okay. Hey

28:28

there. We're gonna take a quick break to hear from

28:30

a couple of the other shows on the maximum fun network.

28:32

When we get back, we're gonna rate ingenuity

28:35

and aesthetics for American

28:37

crocodile, so stick around.

28:42

Parentein, it's hard,

28:44

but don't worry, you're not alone. Belly up to

28:46

the low bar with one bad mother and let

28:48

us remind you that fine is good

28:49

enough. They wanna climb

28:52

on different things how

28:54

am I supposed to keep them both from

28:56

dying? There is a right

28:59

way to do this. And if I can figure that

29:01

right way, I'm gonna be a good parent.

29:03

So that is not a thing. So join

29:05

us each week and let us tell you

29:07

that you are doing a good

29:10

job. You can listen to one bad mother on

29:12

maximum fun or wherever you get

29:14

your podcasts.

29:17

This week on Bullseye

29:20

Tom Hanks, because you've never heard

29:22

him before. Mad, you

29:26

moron. Thank you for the use of the

29:28

turn signal. Way to use

29:30

your blinker. Idiot.

29:32

That's bull's eye for maximum fun dot org

29:35

and NPR. So we're

29:39

talking about how the crocodiles

29:42

act differently from the gators that they're a

29:44

little feisier. 177 that the the places where they

29:46

live are a little different, so they behave in

29:48

different ways. I'd love to lean into that. I

29:50

wanna talk ingenuity. This is the next

29:52

category we rate animals on.

29:54

This is behavior. This is things the animal is doing to solve

29:56

its problems or or navigate

29:58

its world. These are things that the animal is

30:00

doing with their body. What do you give the

30:03

American crop a textile out of

30:05

ten for ingenuity.

30:05

This is where I give it a ten. Okay.

30:07

I think that American crocodiles

30:11

are amazingly adapt

30:13

and have such unique behaviors,

30:15

and they just get overlooked.

30:17

So part of that is, I'm gonna have the doing

30:19

pressure receptors, which to be fair, believe all

30:21

crocodilians do have gun pressure receptors. That's kind of a given

30:23

for this group. But that's still kinda like giving

30:25

them a lot of sensory input. Right. We

30:27

kind of have like a little like built

30:29

in heads up display. Oh, sorry. You're just predator from

30:32

alien versus predator. Big

30:34

what? That's amazing. They

30:36

also I mean, that Saltwater

30:38

adaptation though is what puts them ahead of a

30:40

lot of them. Again, only this and one

30:42

other species is from Australia. The

30:44

land of amazingly wild

30:47

scary weird animals. Has

30:49

this adaptation to deal with totally in

30:51

salt water? Think about how much of the

30:53

earth is covered in salt water? That's

30:55

a really useful adaptation. It's

30:56

funny that like animals

30:59

that have emerged from the

31:01

ocean and evolved to

31:03

live on land It's

31:05

now very impressive to have read adapted to

31:07

go back into the ocean.

31:09

That's awesome. What some of my favorite

31:11

animals will look look at are called

31:14

secondarily

31:14

aquatic, meaning they evolved from something that

31:16

left the ocean 177 they said, nope, we're

31:18

going back. So things like Baines,

31:22

have, you know, similar like SOB or body

31:24

plan because you had to work from you

31:26

changed everything to live on land now you're

31:28

going back. At least crocodilians,

31:30

they've kind of seen mostly

31:32

semi aquatic throughout most of their lineages,

31:34

but they still have a little

31:36

bit of that wonkiness to them, like,

31:38

not create on land, so they're

31:41

much better in the water, but they can kind

31:43

of do land as much as they need. I mean, they

31:45

can make amazing burrows to

31:47

help them survive droughts. So

31:49

that's another amazing ingenuity they

31:51

can do. By out loot favorite thing

31:53

about them though is their courtship behavior that

31:56

I think is really

31:58

novel. So in the Allocated

32:00

episode, you talked about water

32:02

dances. With American alligators. It sounds

32:04

more glamorous than it is, but it's

32:06

very cool. It's like I I like films.

32:08

Shows that theme park. So

32:11

I love watered answers on alligators.

32:13

It's the same thing to me. But

32:15

if American alligators are like,

32:17

know, ballet and water shows. American

32:20

crocodiles, go to rock

32:22

concerts. Oh, boy. American

32:25

crocodiles, to get the males to get females

32:27

attention will slap their

32:29

heads on the top foot water like

32:31

their head banging at a concert.

32:34

If there's another male in the area,

32:36

they will yell each add each other

32:38

like a deaf male concert.

32:40

And then if the female decides,

32:43

alright, your head banging is pretty

32:45

good. Let's come over and see how your

32:47

tombs are. They will actually

32:49

call to each other. Kinda like a

32:51

duet. Oh. And then as at the

32:53

end, if they do choose each

32:55

other just like teenagers making out at a

32:57

rock

32:57

concert, they will actually rub their

33:00

snouts together. Oh,

33:01

there's a love. American

33:05

crocodiles are rock stars in

33:07

love, and I think that's great,

33:09

and more people should know about it. That's another fan

33:11

art prompt for you. Yes. Cracker

33:13

Barrel Rock Stars in love. I

33:17

love it. Are you at all familiar with the new

33:19

Pokemon games? Yes.

33:21

Okay. So the new fire starter,

33:24

Toy Coco. His

33:26

final evolution, Skiliterage is

33:29

kind of a punk rock crocodile.

33:31

It is and it's based

33:33

on

33:33

music. Oh my gosh. This is a

33:36

Pokemon game vaguely set in Fantasy

33:38

Spain, but that's American crocodile

33:41

on

33:41

fire. And he's

33:44

beautiful. We love I mean,

33:46

because we had already kind of we had already

33:48

kinda had our bases covered with

33:50

crocodile back in Gen

33:51

five. now they're back for more.

33:53

I

33:53

want there to be an entire

33:56

team selection of crocodiles for me to make

33:58

a team for revenge. We've only got

34:00

for alligator crookedile,

34:02

and now Scaledurge. Those are the only ones

34:04

I know of. We're halfway there.

34:06

I know. The bird cousins for now, but we're

34:08

gonna get a full team eventually. Oh

34:11

my gosh. I'm glad you mentioned birds again

34:13

because I wanna go back to something

34:15

from ingenuity for I don't know if this is

34:17

something that crocodiles have done. But earlier you

34:19

were talking about how birds

34:22

make nests near, like,

34:24

alligators and crocodiles because they know they're

34:27

kinda covered Right? They're like, oh, I've got a little bit

34:29

of, like, bodyguard action from

34:31

this much larger predator.

34:34

Something that I may have mentioned

34:36

this during our alligator episode. I don't know if

34:38

crocodiles do this too, but what they would do is

34:40

put nest materials on

34:42

their head 177 then wait for the

34:44

bird to come grab it for the nest, and then they're

34:46

like, gotcha.

34:48

I haven't I've heard about it for alligators.

34:50

I haven't heard about it for American crocodiles.

34:52

I have a feeling it might be that kind

34:55

of feisty versus less feisty temperament, where maybe the

34:57

American alligators are kind

34:59

of patient enough to

35:02

watch and wait for that and not react to other things

35:04

around, whereas maybe the American crocodiles just

35:06

don't have the patience. Don't take my word on

35:08

it. I haven't tested it out, but that is

35:11

my guess on that is American

35:14

crocodiles are not going

35:16

to wait for the bird to

35:18

slowly notice these sticks and come

35:20

over, they are going to more likely just go after the bird.

35:22

In your experience with Crocodilians

35:26

in general, but more so like American crocodiles. Does this

35:28

sort of feistiness play out in

35:31

human care? Yes.

35:34

Oh, boy. There

35:37

is a wide range

35:40

of kind of temperaments throughout crocodiles.

35:43

As well as in human care, you'll get a wide

35:46

range even with animal

35:48

species. I tend to call American Alligators the

35:50

closest thing we have to a

35:52

domesticated crocodilian. 177 some of

35:54

them seem to recognize it. I worked at

35:56

a variety of facilities. Most of them

35:58

AZA accredited, which is kind of the highest

36:00

level of animal health and care in the country.

36:02

I really support ACA very strongly.

36:04

But I did start out at a roadside

36:06

place, which was not

36:08

exactly a trend it did. And

36:10

had two American alligators that I loved working with,

36:12

a nine footer and a ten footer,

36:14

very different personalities. Really?

36:16

The larger ten foot male

36:19

We did what other parks will call a Gator

36:21

jumperoo show. It's kind of the colloquial

36:24

affirmative. Hand feeding an

36:26

alligator while kind of leaning over

36:28

a ledge. Just bare hand with piece of raw chicken. Yeah. You kinda

36:30

let him let him jump up and grab it.

36:32

Yeah. Yeah. Talking about This is why I

36:34

like talking affordance

36:35

because you know what a jumperoo show. That's exactly what

36:37

you're talking about.

36:39

Yes. The ten foot

36:42

male, he was like, the closest

36:44

alligator. I I've worked with over a

36:46

dozen American alligators at

36:48

various facilities in

36:50

various ages. He is the closest thing I've ever seen like a domesticated

36:52

alligator. He did not wanna come up and get it.

36:54

He wanted you to toss it to him. He

36:56

would get the very bottle of it and just

36:58

barely pull

37:00

down, but he kinda wanted to wait for you

37:01

to, like, throw him some chow instead.

37:03

Right. Whereas the nine

37:06

foot female favorite animal I've

37:08

ever worked with, because she would keep

37:10

us on her toes. She acted like the drama part of

37:12

Los Raptors,

37:14

clever girl. She would not go for

37:16

the chicken. She would try to go for your arm just

37:18

above the wrist to pull you in as well as

37:20

the chicken. She sees a larger

37:22

meal. Yes. So it it

37:24

not only is it like a species

37:26

variation, but comes back to that

37:28

thing of just reptiles around such

37:30

a slower life than we are that tend to these differences

37:32

unless your hand is over their mouth with a piece

37:34

of chicken and then they quickly see

37:36

the difference.

37:38

Which don't do that by the way. Yeah. I do not do that. I'm

37:40

mister O'Trained professional and even then maybe

37:42

ask your employer about their OSHA violations.

37:47

Yeah. You know,

37:50

we've we've been in many situations in

37:52

which we have just kind of like, you know, been

37:54

tubing down the river and floated right by a

37:56

gator or you know, been out walking at night and you shine a flashlight around.

37:58

Oh, there's two little eyes looking back at you. It's

38:00

a locator sitting right in and the

38:02

and the thinking about him

38:04

is, like, If their bellies are

38:06

full, they're probably not gonna bother chasing

38:08

you away unless you're close to their babies.

38:10

What I always tell people is I've gone

38:12

kayaking in Florida so many

38:14

times and 177 day, I accidentally hit a four foot gator with my kayak

38:16

paddle, and it just kinda looked at me like, oh,

38:18

what did I run into and just kept

38:20

going? 177, like,

38:24

don't go out and try to do stupid things with them.

38:26

Don't go out and try to bother

38:28

them to get a neat selfie.

38:31

Give them their space, but they will also give

38:33

you yours. The caveat I do give

38:36

is Gator mating season.

38:38

Everyone is a little bit feistier whether they're

38:40

an alligator or a cock. Aisle during that time and

38:42

have a much bigger personal

38:44

bubble. Oh, another

38:44

thing you mentioned about that is that the

38:46

the mamas do take good care of

38:48

their babies, which is very endearing. It

38:51

is amazing to think about these

38:53

animals, these American crocodiles that are known

38:56

for being the more aggressive of

38:58

the crocodilians in

39:00

the US and they have this amazingly strong fight for us, Apex

39:02

Predator, and they will so

39:04

gently hold their young in their mouth

39:06

and will even help eggs

39:08

that are trying to hatch, but

39:10

the baby isn't strong enough to

39:12

get out. A lot of

39:14

animals, Saracid, Circle Life, they

39:16

didn't make it. Crocodilians

39:18

have been known to actually pick up

39:20

that egg and ever so gently help

39:22

it hatch in their mouth. Slowly cracking

39:24

it open with those immensely powerful jaws

39:26

to help let the baby out without injuring

39:28

the baby. Have you seen those

39:32

YouTube videos of people trying to, like, open a beer can

39:34

with, like, an excavator. You know

39:36

what I'm talking about? Yes.

39:38

Well, they're trying

39:40

to, like, like trying to use a piece of heavy construction

39:42

equipment to perform in an incredibly delicate

39:44

task. That's kind of what it reminds

39:46

me of

39:48

because you getting these ten foot long crocodile mouths

39:50

that are full of teeth

39:52

and armed with hydraulic powered

39:54

muscles and trying to use

39:56

that to

39:58

very very delicately open a

40:01

little soft egg. Yes.

40:03

It is amazing

40:06

to watch. And the eggs are

40:08

soft and rubbery. It's not like a little

40:10

chicken 177, you know. Like, it's a it's a little

40:12

collapsible egg. Yeah. It's much more

40:14

difficult to get opened gently. little

40:16

Pew Pew Pew console. They too, they

40:18

make the little Star Wars blaster sounds like

40:20

home. I mean, at least they

40:23

will give you that heads up. Right? Like, if you're,

40:25

like, getting a little too close to the babies, they'll

40:27

give you that little

40:29

kinda sound So, like, you have that you they'll they'll let you know, like, you need to step

40:32

away. So if you hear that sound and you don't

40:34

start walking

40:36

away,

40:37

Absolutely. That that's a kid calling for mom.

40:40

Like -- Yeah. -- the stranger came up to your kid in the

40:42

park. You're gonna go after that person

40:44

too. I never blame the

40:46

crocodilians for doing that. No. I

40:48

wrote that into our our d and d

40:50

episode that we did. We did a d and d one

40:51

177. I wrote a little

40:54

gator encounter

40:56

in. I love DND. I'm gonna have to

40:58

go listen to it. Where a lot of the human wildlife conflict comes

41:00

from is just not understanding

41:04

how to read what the other animal is telling us.

41:06

Yeah. And I think once you understand, like, oh,

41:08

that's a mother protecting her babies. She seems

41:10

more relatable.

41:13

she doesn't seem like, you know, a mindless killing

41:15

machine. That's just mama. Absolutely. The final

41:17

category that we rate animals

41:19

on is aesthetics. Which

41:22

is how nice is this animal to look at? Are they cute? Are

41:24

they pretty? These can kind of be polarizing. I'm

41:26

interested to see which way you're gonna fall

41:30

what do you give the American crocodile out of ten for

41:32

aesthetics? So despite my love of

41:34

them, I'm gonna give them a

41:36

five because it does hurt their

41:38

PR campaign. If you

41:40

look at an American crocodile

41:42

versus an American alligator, ten

41:44

American crocodile looks a lot scarier.

41:46

They have that sharper

41:48

body proportions that, you know,

41:50

pencil shaped body with the pointed

41:52

head. They have all of those radial teeth

41:54

hanging out. They look scarier.

41:56

They do look pointier. We look pointier.

41:58

They look like they're gonna hurt more.

42:01

And because of

42:03

that, I feel like that is part of the reason why they

42:05

don't get as much love as American Alligator.

42:07

I mean, people are still afraid to Alligators,

42:09

but they're also in Florida a lot

42:11

of our mascot. On things. Think about University of Florida.

42:13

They're the Gaters. You see a lot of

42:16

businesses that are like Gator Cafe and

42:18

things like that Gaters are

42:20

really popular Whereas

42:22

crocodilians 177 general are

42:24

already not known for being super

42:28

lovable by most people's standards. Yeah. They're

42:30

they're not very babyified the way

42:32

that alligators are. They're really

42:34

not they don't have the

42:37

puppy dog shaved head that helps them

42:39

out. They are suffering. And so because

42:41

of that, you don't get as

42:43

much attention to their peril. And

42:45

they are still on the endangered species list. They've come up

42:47

to vulnerable status now, which means they're getting close standing off

42:49

of that. But think about how American

42:52

alligators are

42:54

least concerned, versus American

42:56

crocodiles that still have heavy protections

42:58

for them. They are charismatic

43:00

in a scary way. But because they

43:02

have that much just scary kind of charismatic appeal to

43:05

them, it ends up hurting a lot of

43:07

conservation for them because people are scared of them. They

43:09

don't want these animals coming

43:11

here though, especially with a lot of the

43:13

range expansions starting to happen. We

43:16

are seeing more and more human

43:18

wildlife interaction in general throughout the

43:20

world with climate change. Especially in Florida

43:22

with the American crocodile coming farther

43:24

north, we have to learn to

43:26

coexist with them more. And if you

43:28

see this thing that looks like your local

43:30

pongator, but scare your end

43:32

sharper. And as harder to

43:34

convince them, no, do not kill

43:36

that vulnerable animal that could go back

43:38

to the break of the extinction.

43:40

We need to learn to give them space,

43:42

and they will help, you know, those beautiful

43:44

tropical birds that we love, help them

43:46

come off on a endangered species list too by

43:48

protecting those nesting sites as well as just keeping everything

43:50

in balance. You like going fishing? Well,

43:52

those crocodiles will help keep

43:56

those saw longer populations of fish around those microbes and check.

43:58

So they're so important to us,

44:00

but they scare people

44:03

with their looks. And they have the

44:06

unfortunate coincidence of living in an area

44:08

with a more charismatic crocodilian to

44:10

compare them to. So that's why I give them

44:12

a five. That is

44:14

unfortunate. They are suffering from the

44:16

comparison unfortunately for them. If

44:18

they I'm sure that in places where the

44:20

puppy dog of the alligator isn't right next to

44:21

them. They might suffer most importantly from that. You put them next

44:23

to a Nile crocodile or a saltwater

44:26

crocodile, and this becomes the puppy

44:28

dog here. I'm

44:31

wondering if we could leverage the allocator's

44:33

reputation in support of the

44:35

crocodile and, like, siphon

44:38

some of that popularity off and just, like, rebrand the crocodile

44:40

as just, like, their edgy brother. You

44:42

know, like, maybe this is just, like,

44:45

their edgy teen like version of the

44:47

gator. I love it. I heard that Emo

44:49

was taking a comeback, so I feel like we

44:51

could really, really get that going with the

44:54

American crocodile.

44:56

Cabot punk email, cousin of the alligator. What kind of

44:58

pop punk band can we get doing some work

45:00

for front of that? I don't know about pop

45:03

punk, but I feel like Scott

45:05

being a big fish is just too good upon

45:07

the tasa for a fish eating animal. I

45:09

have been waiting dormant,

45:12

laying 177 wait all these years for

45:14

Scott to come back I know it's

45:16

coming back. I know it

45:18

is. It's just a question of when I've been

45:20

waiting. This could be the moment. I

45:22

think exactly I was could I think they

45:24

could really get in on that. Get in on the ground

45:26

floor of the scar revival. I

45:28

this is he. Here's another fan or we got the scar

45:30

crocodiles in there too. You're really

45:32

making these less charismatic animals, more charismatic for their

45:34

descriptions, and I am here for it. They're

45:38

Scott. Crocodiles in

45:40

love -- Yes. -- a sky crocodile

45:42

wedding. There's your fan art project

45:46

with one of them picking flowers to be the

45:48

flower girl.

45:49

Checkered wristbands and trumpets as far as

45:51

the eye can see. Yes.

45:54

I did wanna ask before

45:56

we hop off. Have you

45:58

ever had an unfortunate or

46:02

unexpected run-in with a

46:04

crocodilian in the

46:04

wild. I feel

46:06

as a for again? The answer

46:08

is, like, yes, on a daily basis. Honestly,

46:10

the most unfortunate run-in I

46:14

have almost stepped on multiple while out

46:16

hiking. But the big one I always

46:18

think about is 177 were on the highway and

46:20

there was a good, like, twelve footer that

46:22

decided just Sunday in the

46:24

middle of the highway. What a

46:26

power move? 177 so

46:28

it was more unfortunate in that it made us incredibly

46:30

late. And no one wanted to

46:32

get out of the car to go move the

46:34

twelve foot gator. That's true because what

46:36

are you gonna do? Like, what are you gonna bring

46:39

to the table that's gonna get this thing

46:41

to move? Nothing. If they're sunbathing there, they're too tired

46:43

to move anyways. I'm not gonna drag that thing.

46:45

I'm not that strong. It's

46:47

not gonna work. We end up having

46:49

to go off road to get around it and thankfully didn't end up in, like, an

46:52

accidental mud pit or

46:54

something. Like, Florida swamps on

46:56

the side of the road tend to have to get you

46:58

stuck. Here's my most

47:00

unfortunate run-in with 177 be

47:02

an American alligator. I've actually never

47:04

seen American rocket aisles out in the

47:06

wild, but I would love to

47:08

someday bucket

47:09

list. Absolutely. You know, I really

47:11

hope that we can get some more

47:13

love out there for them so that they can have the same

47:15

sort of turnaround that alligators

47:18

have because they've been a real

47:20

success

47:20

story. We

47:22

need to spread that love around a little bit. I think the more that you spread that

47:24

love around and understand how to

47:27

give them that personal bottle The

47:29

better off we all are. We get

47:31

amazingly balanced diverse ecosystems out of

47:33

it 177 a really cool punk rock neighbor

47:35

that happens to be reptile. It is a

47:37

great time, like, living alongside really

47:40

cool reptiles. It makes you feel like you're, like,

47:42

living in prehistoric times. It

47:44

makes you feel like you've, like, transported into

47:46

Jurassic Park. I mean, just look

47:48

around and be like, oh, there's

47:50

prehistoric beasts crawling around on

47:52

my porch. I mean, there's been

47:54

prehistoric crocodiles in Florida for

47:56

millions of years So it really it some of them we

47:58

currently see like American Alligator. Others are

48:00

kind of cousins of the American crocodile.

48:03

177 if you look

48:05

out, you're like, here's this huge animal that is

48:08

very similar to animals that were living in

48:10

millions of years ago in this exact

48:13

same kind of lumpy location. Technically, there are dinosaurs surrounding

48:15

us because birds are dinosaurs. It

48:18

really makes an amazing picture of

48:20

you get

48:22

the prehistoric size and behaviors

48:24

as well as technically also having dinosaurs that

48:26

are much smaller kinda hanging out above

48:29

the monitor case. All good incentive

48:32

to support your local punk rock scene,

48:35

save the crocodiles. I

48:38

need that as a bumper sticker.

48:40

Support your local punk

48:44

crock scene. Yes. There

48:46

it is. That's the merch idea. So before we

48:48

hop off for today, I would love it if

48:50

you could let our friends list so

48:52

we know where they can follow along with

48:54

your work. You mentioned to me earlier

48:56

that you have your own podcast about animals. I

48:58

know that's maybe not as family friendly, but

49:00

that's fine. That one's 177 for the crew and

49:03

us. But I would love for you to let

49:05

our friends know, like, where can they keep up

49:07

with your science communication work? Yeah. So

49:09

the best place right now for me is Instagram at Alec

49:11

Ossaurus, like a dinosaur

49:14

Alec almost. As well

49:16

as my science communication

49:18

media collective soon to become a com its

49:20

own company. Hey, quick editing note

49:22

at the time when we

49:24

recorded this the name of the media collective Alec mentioned here was

49:26

different, but it has been updated to

49:28

creature features services. This is not

49:30

to be confused with

49:32

the pod cast creature feature which is hosted by front of the

49:33

show, Katie Golden. You can see a link in the

49:36

episode description below for

49:38

more information.

49:39

177 have kind of wide variation in

49:41

the work that we do, but it's mostly

49:43

using horror and pop culture as a way to

49:45

teach about biology and

49:47

nature. We have a couple of in progress

49:50

podcast and video series that might be live

49:52

by the time that those

49:54

podcast airs. 177 of them is going to be on Jurassic Park

49:56

from a zoo and theme park employees

49:58

perspective of how that could have actually

50:00

worked out

50:02

well. As well as monster morphology,

50:04

which takes movie and TV monsters and

50:06

talks about how their bodies could actually

50:09

function in comparison to living

50:12

animals. And those will both be a more family

50:14

friendly, if maybe slightly scary

50:16

topics occasionally. Our current live

50:19

podcast, I do give the

50:21

warning that has the explicit tag. It

50:23

is called zoo after dark. It

50:26

was actually started from a

50:28

running joke from my fellow zoo educators and

50:30

I add up formers who we used to

50:32

work at. Where we get these amazing talks and

50:34

we'd like, this is a really cool fun

50:36

fact about this animal that's so interesting and I

50:38

cannot say it because there's always children in

50:40

the room. So we call

50:42

it like a zoo field trip

50:45

for the adults. So I would give that

50:47

warning on zoo after dark. That if

50:49

it is an adult only conversation about

50:51

these amazingly weird and sometimes

50:54

explicit things that animals

50:56

do, they're absolutely fascinating

50:58

that we wish more people would know

51:00

about. Yeah. For sure. There's some

51:02

completely wild stuff going on under the hood

51:04

of some of these creatures that

51:06

aren't always the most appropriate for young

51:08

ears. So so

51:10

maybe not the young ears for that one, but the other

51:12

two especially have a drastic

51:15

Parker Monster Movie member of

51:17

the family. Absolutely welcome to.

51:19

Awesome. I will have links to everything

51:21

in the episode description. So the people

51:23

listening can scroll down and click through go see all the awesome cool

51:25

stuff and it has been incredible talking

51:28

to you and we will catch

51:30

you later. Absolutely great

51:32

talking with you too. Thanks.

51:34

Bye. Bye. Thank you

51:36

all so much for listening. I hope this

51:38

saltwater guardian

51:40

will keep rocking on in your heart. If you liked what you heard

51:42

today, I hope you leave behind some kind words

51:44

for us in a review on your podcast

51:46

app of

51:48

choice. If you'd like to hang out with us online or on Facebook,

51:50

Twitter, Instagram and Discord, links

51:52

to everything will be in the You

51:56

can also send me an email at ellenjustthezooables

51:58

dot com. If you have

52:00

a cool animal you'd like us to talk

52:03

about on the show. We'd like

52:05

to thank maximum fun for having us on their network alongside their other wonderful shows,

52:07

like the ones that you heard promos for

52:09

earlier. You can check them out and learn

52:11

more about the network can

52:14

support our show and keep

52:16

us surviving and thriving. You can find

52:18

all of that over at maximumfund dot

52:22

org. Finally, we would like to thank Louis Song for our

52:24

theme music. That is all for today.

52:26

We'll see you next week. Thanks. Bye.

53:00

Maximum fun

53:02

dot 177, comedy and culture,

53:04

artists owned, audience supported,