0:01

Hey I'm smacking Docker and

0:03

I grew up at the intersection of a bunch

0:05

of different cultures and I gave me

0:07

a deep appreciation of other places

0:09

and an understanding of how connected

0:11

we all are. That's why we called

0:13

our new podcast. Nothing is foreign.

0:15

This is world news that recognizes

0:18

were all part of a global Community. A

0:20

series for people who want the view from

0:22

the ground. Nothing is foreign comes

0:24

out every Friday, find it on CDC,

0:26

listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:28

this

0:31

is cbc podcast

0:34

before we start this is a podcast know canada's

0:37

indian residential schools and

0:39

it contains descriptions of sexual violence

0:41

suicide and abuse if

0:43

you need support you can find information

0:45

about where to turn for help at cdc dot

0:48

cdc a slash keeper island

0:55

in nineteen seventy two days before

0:57

christmas an article ran the victoria

0:59

daily times about how staff a kuper

1:02

island were trying to make the residential school

1:04

feel like home for the holidays the

1:07

newspaper ran photo with the story the

1:09

chose a white woman wearing glasses sorta

1:12

tucked away hovering over table of

1:14

indigenous kids doing crafts you

1:16

got uneasy smith the

1:18

caption reads childcare

1:20

worker dolores finance age

1:22

twenty one what is cut out

1:25

fun i'm

1:28

gonna sound worse

1:30

when you first called and said i'm

1:32

done com uma q i am with said

1:34

yeah i'm sad applause i'm hung up

1:37

recognize , voice you know you've been on

1:40

the radio answer twice i've

1:42

been on couple times the

1:44

morris thank you for doing

1:46

this i feel it

1:48

has to be done if i was

1:51

had a fever and with the hospital it

1:53

probably do it

1:58

dolores doesn't tell many people she were that

2:00

residential school

2:02

there's a catholic and an aging white lady

2:04

she's tired of doubters who question the stories

2:07

of survivors she wants to

2:09

do her part by setting the record straight

2:11

about the wrongs she witnessed a keeper

2:13

island there's

2:15

also someone else a kuper quoted

2:17

in that newspaper article brother

2:20

glenn dowdy man who later

2:22

be convicted of sexually abusing multiple

2:24

boys at the school he calls

2:26

his work they're very rewarding

2:29

he says his job his to quote put

2:31

them to bed feed them the

2:34

bank and loved turns

2:37

out he's still alive too i'm

2:41

dog in the queue and ,

2:43

scooper island episode

2:46

six like

2:48

just

2:56

we found a lloris living in small town on

2:58

the remote tip of vancouver island the

3:01

only worked at keeper island school for about

3:03

year and the early seventies but

3:05

what she witnessed has been gnawing outer

3:07

her entire life you

3:09

got the job there when she met nun on streets

3:11

of victoria

3:14

well i was just place with little

3:16

girls i'm just told basically

3:18

what i had to do was basic supervision

3:20

of their behavior they went school

3:22

during the day i to get them up in

3:24

the morning i had to supervise i'm at

3:27

lunchtime m then of course when

3:29

the got out of school no

3:31

one checked her qualifications he

3:35

did know that i had graduated from high

3:37

school at said and

3:39

dolores arrived cube or island she

3:41

went upstairs to see where the little girl sleep

3:45

with so bear am desolate

3:48

, looking

3:50

thirty six metal bands

3:53

in a row all with white bedspreads

3:56

and white walls it was i

3:58

don't know to describe it you

4:01

know there was nothing to make them graham or

4:03

smile no color

4:06

i was shocked what

4:08

were the kids like can you describe them for me pretty

4:11

normal kids you

4:14

never felt comfortable with how the nuns treated

4:16

the children the

4:18

would wash their mouths out for real

4:21

with soap when they spoke the language

4:25

and i don't know what to say about that

4:27

made me wanna throw up and it does

4:29

now how can

4:31

you do that the

4:34

for christ's sake and i mean for

4:36

christ sake how

4:38

can somebody do that i

4:43

remember heard calling one the girls do

4:45

it little mdm the

4:47

god damn it

4:51

asked a laura how the priests treated staff

4:53

and children

4:55

oh god i

4:58

, know how to answer that nicely a

5:01

yes abdoulaye had absolute power

5:03

you know or least they thought they did you

5:06

did exactly what they told you to do and

5:08

nothing added innocent take them

5:10

away if you didn't it beats scream that

5:14

remember leading to talk to their prey

5:16

some they open the door about it they have kind of

5:18

little living room and booze

5:20

there the

5:22

i thought oh that's interesting that told everybody

5:24

not to drink at the school and they had a whole

5:26

pile of and sit non a table and as soon

5:28

as they saw that i was looking

5:31

they took it off the table put on the floor

5:36

the perpetrator that i knew

5:38

was excellent with kids he did lot of

5:40

crafts and a lot stuff with them the

5:42

at this other side turn that was very parliament

5:47

the

5:47

perpetrator that dolores is referring to

5:49

his brother glad dowdy he

5:51

saw that other side of him one day in mid

5:54

september nineteen seventy one it

5:56

started when she heard some screaming coming

5:58

from the boy side

6:01

help help stop that hurts it

6:03

just was really better screaming and

6:07

, looked out the window to see if the boys

6:09

were fighting and there was

6:11

no kids outside at all so

6:13

i i

6:15

, followed noise

6:18

inside the building until came right

6:20

in front of a male staff

6:22

members door and

6:25

was coming from coming there

6:29

it was going down his room the

6:31

lore stop she was scared

6:34

she paused say say i'm

6:37

just at that moment the ,

6:39

opened and the

6:42

staff member and my child came out

6:46

there was an incredible okay

6:51

so then i knew what

6:54

were you referring to the

6:56

mm the

6:59

man

7:01

and i've never seen such

7:03

abject fear that's

7:08

and i have never seen such as

7:10

jack evil that's what

7:13

with a madman he

7:16

was staring at me like he would

7:19

like was hellfire himself the

7:22

boy also looked at dolores and

7:25

he was staring at me like do

7:27

something could see him leaning

7:29

towards me was trying to get away but the

7:33

daughter you wouldn't let him go

7:38

and i didn't know what to do so and

7:40

was hanging on some and

7:43

i'd i'd afraid of i went near him he'd

7:45

slide me he was like the whole

7:47

different human being he

7:50

looked like he was in our range

7:54

indeed did he say anything to you

7:56

no he discolored hell at me and

8:00

me scared

8:03

shit on me

8:07

until this conversation with dolores

8:09

everything i'd heard about kuper island was from the perspective

8:12

of kids in a traumatic situation the

8:15

morris was an adult at the time i'm

8:17

an old enough to do something about

8:21

i went straight to

8:23

the minister's off the

8:26

administrator was father larry mackey i

8:30

started to tell they had been up

8:32

and boys side am i had heard this

8:34

he'd literally jumped

8:36

out of his office chair and

8:39

, at me

8:41

i can't even duplicate it

8:44

it up your things and get

8:47

out he was an asshole

8:49

i don't know scheme may have

8:52

already have known there was something

8:54

going on

8:55

didn't wanna hear about it i don't know

8:57

i quit after four more

8:59

months sarah couldn't stand it

9:02

he left for university and did best

9:05

to block this awful memory there

9:08

is some very evil people in this world i

9:12

found that out them

9:14

basically think i went

9:16

somewhat insane after that myself

9:20

my brain said no it didn't

9:22

happen and i went with my business

9:27

as for how their larry mackey he'd

9:29

go from kuper island to run an addiction

9:31

support center in vancouver's troubled downtown

9:34

eastside the lot of indigenous

9:36

people live there the center focused

9:38

on helping people who had traumatic childhood

9:41

getting something sexual abuse

9:45

the few decades would pass until lloris

9:47

heard the name glenn dowdy again i

9:51

think the with medicaid

9:53

in one been vancouver papers

9:56

newspapers

10:00

the late eighties when former residential

10:02

school students started breaking the silence

10:04

about what happened to them as little kids phil

10:07

fontaine than the leader of the assembly

10:09

of first nations the largest for station

10:11

organization in canada was one of

10:13

first speak publicly and tell

10:15

all interview on national tv journal

10:19

with barbara from i

10:22

was asked how

10:24

prevalent as was and to illustrate

10:27

my point i had suggested that if

10:30

we took example migrate three class

10:32

every single one of the twenty what

10:35

of experience what i experience

10:38

are you saying every one of twenty

10:40

was sexually abused

10:43

they've experienced some aspect

10:45

of the sexual abuse

10:51

it was watershed moment

10:53

flood disclosures followed from residential

10:55

schools across canada in

10:57

british columbia police were overwhelmed it

10:59

set out to investigate one claim against one

11:01

guy at one school discover

11:04

it was the tip of the iceberg so

11:06

in nineteen ninety five the rcmp launched

11:09

special task force to look into crimes

11:11

at all bc residential schools

11:17

gaining control of our lives

11:19

native have mixed feelings about whether

11:21

the investigation will be worthwhile

11:23

if those who abuse them in residential

11:25

schools are not brought to justice

11:29

behind scenes investigators were struggling

11:32

according to an rcmp report we uncovered

11:35

not only were churches protecting records the

11:37

mounties accused the government of canada

11:40

of interfering in investigations

11:42

especially the one into keeper island

11:45

here's what was going on police

11:47

were urging victims to come forward

11:49

to disclose what happened to them to

11:51

name names the department of

11:53

justice wanted to get their hands on those witness

11:55

statements looking for negative bits

11:57

of information about the victims lives

12:00

anything to help the federal government defend

12:02

itself in an ever growing number of

12:04

civil lawsuits in

12:06

other words uber island survivors

12:08

were telling police their stories they

12:11

may be used prosecute criminals canada

12:14

wanted use the statements to limit

12:16

compensation to the same survivors

12:19

or avoid payouts altogether their

12:22

credit the mounties saw as a conflict of

12:24

interest and spent two years

12:26

fighting the justice lawyers then

12:28

during that process they mistakenly

12:31

handed over the confidential files that

12:34

threatened to derail the task force how

12:37

could victims trust police if

12:39

police were sharing with the federal government there

12:42

is a tremendous amount of anger out

12:45

there and it's gonna be there for

12:47

long time until we did with his issues

12:50

in

12:50

the end after eight years the taskforce

12:52

collected over five hundred separate allegations

12:55

of sexual assault that's just

12:57

it residential schools nbc they

13:00

identified over two hundred suspects alleged

13:02

to have committed sexual offenses

13:04

the rcmp admit many of the suspects

13:06

in their investigation may never be charged

13:09

or convicted third

13:11

of them were already dead only

13:13

fourteen men were charged

13:16

they're gonna be in there more

13:18

senior years summer going be deceased

13:20

some maybe and farmer in that category where

13:22

cronk also chooses not to in public's

13:24

interest go ahead and third a

13:26

to further were an alarmingly high number

13:28

of sexual abuse complaints involving multiple

13:31

suspects the only one man

13:33

was charged then doubt

13:39

after his time in b c dot he had returned

13:41

to his home province of ontario the

13:43

became counsellor chaplin at university

13:45

in thunder bay he was convicted

13:47

their of sexual offenses they

13:50

found blog about abuse cases amongst catholic

13:52

clergy and canada where a mother

13:54

and thunder bay described how doubt abused

13:56

her son and youth here's

13:59

my producer jody the parts of it this

14:01

tactic sounded familiar

14:04

i'm a mother of a boy who was groomed and

14:06

controlled by brother clan dowdy during

14:10

the time when glenn was heading up boy youth

14:12

group originating at the church when

14:15

took the boys to the churches can there

14:18

he would ply these eleven twelve

14:20

thirteen year old boys with beer and

14:22

other alcohol he also told

14:25

them he was train psychologist who

14:27

specialized in hip they're abby

14:30

the children were told the god wanted them

14:32

to do these things for him as

14:34

he was under stress and he needed to

14:36

be feeling well in order to do his

14:38

job for god

14:42

by the nineteen nineties doubt it already served

14:44

a few months in prison for sexually abusing

14:46

boys at a residential school near williams

14:48

like four more months for

14:50

abuse a kuper island now

14:53

with larger police taskforce investigation

14:55

that was facing new set of kuper charges

14:58

forty two counts and on the

15:01

laura's plans was in court to see him

15:05

what was it like to see him

15:07

it was of course in the very front dance

15:09

and i was slowest almost flat m

15:11

he was great he

15:13

didn't even twitch a singer he

15:17

look like a dead body

15:20

there were two other priests with them who are behind

15:22

them and they just looked at the

15:24

i didn't know what the hell we were thinking but

15:27

they know they was guilty i'm quite sure they

15:29

did

15:32

that he wound up pleading guilty to eleven

15:34

counts of indecent assault and one count of

15:36

buggery involving eleven different victims

15:39

the received three year jail sentence the

15:42

be served at wm head the minimum

15:44

security prison and b c sometimes

15:46

referred to as club fat

15:49

them the judge said

15:52

after that he will be given back

15:54

to the priests who have said they will

15:57

take care of him the

16:00

the judge with god

16:02

never see if you've ever had a judge

16:04

make a pronouncement their hair will go on

16:06

m telling her they are serious

16:08

folks he said to

16:10

gland out it if you there should ever

16:12

have and and come before the federal

16:14

court anywhere in canada

16:17

user will be sentenced in such

16:19

a way that you will die

16:22

in prison

16:25

and he told the oblate priest if

16:28

you wanna take care of him there must

16:30

be someone in his

16:32

presence at all times

16:35

you must take the door off

16:37

door off sleeping room state

16:39

cannot even go to the bathroom

16:41

alone

16:45

there's all this was unfolding some kuper

16:47

island survivors were also suing

16:49

dowdy the catholic church and government

16:52

the lawyer named david paterson represented

16:54

some of survivors including james

16:56

and tony charlie he dug

16:58

into the case he found himself

17:00

trying to understand what made glenn

17:02

dowdy tech

17:06

when duty was young man from northern

17:08

ontario i think he was from tenants

17:11

he learned ,

17:13

on in his growing

17:15

up guess that she was homosexual

17:18

it frightened him homosexuality

17:21

was a crime at the time the

17:23

i decided that he would go off

17:26

and join the oblate and

17:29

he was saw immediately assigned

17:33

to , work in indian

17:35

residential schools as schools supervisor

17:38

and back in those days there was no formal

17:40

training process any adult could simply

17:42

be assigned as dormitory supervisor

17:46

i think he thought that

17:48

he was in love with these boys on

17:50

that he cherish them that

17:54

he hope that they felt the same way about

17:56

him i think

17:58

he was was very confused normal mean

18:01

he was also a predator i'm not

18:03

trying to make excuses for

18:07

psychiatric report presented in one court

18:09

hearing suggested doubt had his own troubled

18:11

childhood the was molested by

18:13

his father when was teenager the

18:15

mother had violent temper as

18:17

an adult he had an alcohol problem the

18:20

report found to be pedophile

18:24

during as many claims as you did was

18:27

there pattern to his abuse

18:29

the majority of the people that gwen dodi

18:31

was interested in was a prepubescent

18:34

boys he was so

18:36

fond of entertaining boy what's with magic

18:38

tricks and in fact

18:41

one of the allegations that was made by

18:43

one person against him was for period

18:45

of time when time when not on staff

18:47

at the schools so the defense

18:49

harper long and hard on that and

18:51

eventually it turned out that

18:54

our during the easter break he had visited

18:56

the school and there was a record in the

18:58

schools minutes of him having

19:00

perform magic tricks for the kids

19:02

and so the person's recollection as to

19:04

the timing was proved to be accurate

19:07

so window the in his magic tricks

19:09

was so well known

19:13

so the again them

19:15

dowdy is the only

19:17

one who's ever been charged for any accent

19:20

cooper island

19:21

the you think that glenn doubt was the only

19:24

sexual abuse or a predator at cooper island

19:27

you know i remembered examining

19:29

a supervisor at trial

19:32

he lived in small room with single

19:34

bad he was on duty from

19:36

three pm until eight am the next

19:38

morning he was not permitted

19:41

have visitors in his room he had

19:43

one day off day month and you

19:45

have to wonder for whom

19:47

that kind of life would

19:49

been acceptable her new

19:51

tended to see among the supervisors

19:53

basically to coins one

19:56

were missionaries who floated through the

19:58

place in a matter of few years the

20:00

on way to something else and

20:02

others were lifers which this person

20:04

was who stayed there for decades

20:07

and you know it was

20:09

manna from heaven if you were pedophile

20:14

the civil lawsuits numerous survivors

20:16

raised multiple allegations against doubt

20:19

the admitted some denied others lawyers

20:22

for the oblate the catholic church and the

20:24

canadian government were fighting tooth and nail

20:26

to minimize compensation for survivors

20:29

the aggressively cross examine them about other

20:31

harms their lives using arguments

20:33

like this

20:35

well okay maybe this stuff

20:38

happened but that's not really the cause of

20:40

the difficulties you face throughout your life

20:42

you were raised in poverty your parents

20:45

had dysfunctional relationship sauce

20:47

they had been to residential school while

20:49

you may have been abused by your parents or by

20:51

uncles how do you know that it's the

20:53

sexual abuse who suffered so that's responsible

20:56

for your difficulties in life the

20:58

church and government could only be liable

21:01

for the farms

21:03

that were suffered over and above

21:06

the farms that would have been suffered by the

21:08

children in any events including

21:11

farms that occurred at the residential schools

21:14

such as physical abuse cultural

21:16

shaming violence that sort of thanks

21:18

how much of what went wrong your life is

21:20

because you had lousy parents know

21:23

when you went out and got drunk were you

21:25

thinking of glendon

21:30

church and government were willing to concede

21:32

residential school students literally had

21:34

their culture beaten out of those

21:36

admissions didn't cost penny the

21:38

statute of limitations had expired arms

21:41

from sexual abuse on the other hand that

21:43

mean big payouts

21:46

the notion of having the church and

21:48

the government vigorously argued

21:50

that they're mistreatment these children

21:52

in residential school was so bad

21:54

that they would have come out basket cases anyways

21:57

was distasteful and i thought the court should

21:59

have this back on that kind of argument

22:02

at the end of is it didn't

22:08

i say current were must it as

22:10

it is hundred questions of

22:13

all the same

22:16

james toney were amongst the first survivors

22:18

in canada to sue the church and government

22:22

there's james on how it felt to face

22:24

the lawyers

22:26

yeah but what color pajamas to

22:28

the airport code separate reclines carved

22:30

into cause bed why ,

22:32

you say know why didn't you tell

22:35

somebody and

22:37

then rapper

22:39

that says she is over of reconnect

22:41

questions then

22:43

akkadian government our churches racers who

22:45

and first would ask the same poorly questions

22:47

again and

22:49

finally as who were to f t those

22:52

once remake to athens georgia ready

22:54

what happened was , blew

22:56

it when i told him that therefore

22:59

i was not was quarter both would

23:02

call it witness it witness

23:04

yeah

23:06

compensation was based on a sliding scale

23:08

of how bad their abuse was but

23:12

you guys were were the ones that led the way

23:14

you lead the way to what ended up happening with the

23:16

settlement for all survivors

23:19

were that yeah this is the skill was

23:21

drawn from our our

23:23

, and you guys were first yeah

23:26

so and skill

23:28

or one that can i was probably

23:31

, to i guess a was to

23:33

i was that upsetting to be downgraded

23:36

to upsetting to be have been told

23:38

me was to but i had very low settlement

23:40

for out how much did you end up getting

23:42

much did dear member panic

23:45

thirty somewhat thousand

23:51

tony eventually settled to having

23:53

his past dissected in court took

23:55

a toll all

23:57

your parents reporter did drunk

23:59

alcohol

24:00

would you know they weren't very good parents

24:02

you know and those

24:04

are the things that

24:06

really i carried even though

24:08

they want is settled with me why

24:11

do i have to get more hurt when it come

24:13

to a settlement mighty one hundred

24:15

me

24:18

grilling they faced in the adversarial legal

24:20

system later lead candidate to design

24:22

kinder and gentler adjudication

24:24

process to deal with thousands of survivors

24:27

compensation claims the

24:29

games and tony's experience with the civil

24:31

process was a better one and

24:33

learning of gland dot is criminal sentence

24:35

didn't make things better he

24:38

did get three years in prison that

24:41

feeling when you heard that that sense of the

24:46

yeah i can call it can in fact tomorrow

24:48

night get three years friend craig berube

24:50

driving there no reason

24:53

for station

24:57

legally that was his punishment

24:59

three years i

25:01

have to live my life today with

25:04

all those peace and all those

25:06

memories all those incidents

25:10

forever

25:14

every night everyday

25:25

hey i'm married and docker and

25:27

i grew up at the intersection of bunch

25:29

of different cultures and i gave me

25:31

a deep appreciation of other places

25:34

and an understanding of how connected we

25:36

all are that's why we called our

25:38

new podcast nothing is boring

25:40

this is world news that recognizes

25:42

for all part of global community a

25:44

theory for people who wants to view from

25:46

the ground nothing foreign comes

25:48

out every friday find it on cbc

25:51

listen or wherever you get podcast

25:53

just

25:58

before the keeper island criminal charges

26:00

surfaced in two thousand glenn doubt

26:02

he took shelter at place called spring

26:04

hirst good

26:06

afternoon spring hirst spring hi hi wondering if

26:09

brother doubt isn't the

26:12

spring hirst as a retirement home for all blades

26:14

in downtown ottawa owned by the

26:16

oblate of mary mackillop the

26:18

order of missionaries at rank uber island

26:20

and nearly fifty residential schools and

26:24

he left last year last

26:26

year okay is that a he didn't leave any did

26:28

he leave a forwarding address are a number that i could

26:30

do retail to no

26:33

oh dear or that's

26:35

too bad how was he doing

26:37

when doing when hey

26:40

i guess he was in good health i

26:43

don't know we

26:45

started digging into archives the catholic

26:47

church's phone directory for clergy an

26:50

oblate newsletters to figure out how many

26:52

non sexual abusers have been housed at

26:54

spring hurst found at least

26:56

nine convicted sex offenders had taken

26:58

refuge there man who abused

27:00

children and residential schools northern

27:03

indigenous communities marius

27:05

parishes across the country how

27:08

came to make a friend and colleague much

27:10

for your health or a mother

27:14

left my name and phone number and ask for an

27:16

interview with someone there to understand

27:18

how spring hirst operates why this

27:20

shelter convicted an alleged sexual

27:23

offenders and who pays for them to

27:25

live out their old age and as comfortable

27:27

setting overlooking the real river as

27:30

for glenn doubt he he wasn't there anymore

27:32

that wasn't hiding they found

27:35

on social media one smiling

27:37

photo had a slogan on at that said out proud

27:39

and in recovery referred

27:41

to completing degree in clinical pastoral

27:43

counseling from the university of ottawa the

27:46

found pictures of his paintings putting

27:48

one that shows teepees in a field there's

27:51

another showing boat of rugged shore

27:53

titled memories of when i lived on the west

27:55

coast someone

27:57

commented asking him what he be painting next

28:00

the answer i have a whole series

28:02

on my experience with natives that i'm contemplating

28:06

we also found phone number for granddaddy i

28:08

tried it but went to voicemail decided

28:11

not leave a message and hung up there's

28:14

me updating my producers martha jody

28:16

what happened next then

28:20

i we were walking lana says you want when

28:24

messages right like you know

28:28

the answered away

28:32

wow okay

28:36

hello yes

28:39

hi is a going down there hi

28:42

glenn it ser duncan mchugh speaking how are you

28:46

very good in

28:48

should yes yes how can help you and dump

28:51

so , he

28:53

was out shopping and said

28:56

diana bit busy right now in

28:58

a city oh christmas shopping and

29:00

said oh yeah i'm at the rito center and then

29:02

he said you want to call back and i said sure i can

29:04

call back when he said well i call back in an hour

29:06

and then he said by the

29:08

way what's this regard source

29:10

of our du puy cast on residential schools

29:13

in in his tone just totally changed

29:15

like is like he was very kind of bland

29:17

and you know them that breathless because you know is

29:19

honestly out about but he was in a

29:21

good mood when said that his tone just

29:24

totally changed and

29:26

then then my on talk

29:28

about that i've

29:30

had too much grief over at all it's

29:33

all we started getting into a little

29:35

bit then

29:37

los angeles appreciate rec

29:39

to do very much i've had so

29:41

much suffering so much pain my

29:43

other want to go thing i'm eighty

29:45

three years old want to die in peace that

29:50

point i decided that you know

29:52

the best thing to do was try to build

29:54

rapport and get a phone call you get

29:56

any kind of oxygen going so i said can

29:58

i can understand that again months

30:02

awkward

30:07

moink truth and reconciliation

30:09

and cetera cetera

30:12

dr aziz should have to really

30:14

give that serious thought the

30:18

it is just better horrible part of

30:20

the time the the truce

30:22

is the truth and lies this don't realize

30:25

yes it is sorry what lies still the

30:27

lies meaningless

30:31

all kinds of accusations uncommon

30:33

to the substance of preserve says they're wrong

30:37

yeah this is why think it's really important

30:40

to to sit and have a chat with you go glen

30:44

it well he said the truth is

30:46

still the truth the

30:48

lies still alive

30:51

then i mean well

30:53

as i said what ,

30:55

mean by that lies are still

30:57

the lies and said while they're been all kinds

30:59

of accusations and presumptions

31:01

accusations and presumptions all wrong all

31:04

right

31:07

and i said mind if i phone you back and he said

31:09

guys should have should have and

31:11

i saw me

31:13

okay ah okay will charge she

31:16

later okay by now

31:22

so that's where we left it

31:25

so so you hang up and

31:27

then what's racing through your mind his

31:30

tone surprised me

31:33

in i like a we've

31:35

been reading the court reports

31:38

about the i'm expressing remorse

31:40

college icing on three

31:42

separate occasions on all the occasions

31:45

that he was brought before the court

31:47

and he pled guilty we

31:49

are not to all the charges he was facing

31:51

but to enough charges to

31:53

have to jail time i mean he

31:55

played so

31:58

when he said this line still

32:00

true but the allies are are still

32:02

lies i'll

32:05

i was surprised because there was

32:09

he he feels wrong

32:13

my gut instinct is to try to continue to build

32:15

for poor like was what's , word

32:17

obsequious i think i felt obsequious

32:20

like i was trying to get

32:22

harder that that word what's the cia

32:24

trying to curry favor i was like you

32:26

know i was very very

32:28

was there was nothing and tigers

32:31

like yellow to leave the country i

32:34

still hope to convince granddaddy to do an

32:36

interview the asked to phone back

32:38

when i did he currently said he consulted

32:40

his lawyer and psychologist they

32:42

advised him not to talk that

32:45

he hung up on me the didn't respond

32:47

to any more my requests

32:48

i

32:53

didn't want our work to be a surprise

32:55

or fresh source of pain for survivors had

32:57

already been hurt so much i

32:59

had to bring this back to james and tony

33:01

and let the cards fall where they may on

33:05

of us want us here this or not

33:07

but we also tracked down blend dowdy

33:10

and figured

33:12

out what he's been up to

33:15

i told them what we'd

33:17

learned i , sure how they

33:19

react but

33:21

i do have the do have

33:23

conversation that had with him on

33:25

tape if you'd like to listen

33:27

to it you

33:29

don't that's understand

33:32

i can share with you and you don't have to listen

33:34

to it now or you or you can

33:36

not listen to it at all

33:43

the

33:47

i don't the

33:49

real i ,

33:51

don't think i can take anything

33:53

anything from him cause

33:56

seen are not artist or not

34:00

the

34:01

i don't think i'm president

34:03

thing from him to a i'm like yo and

34:06

i put and audience and back

34:08

burner i , what he has

34:10

done done

34:13

similar things have things and

34:15

damn i have no

34:18

desire to delete

34:22

your any anger or ,

34:25

like that i mean that frame

34:27

of mind when i commend commend

34:29

wanna leave and net frame of frame i'd

34:32

i'd wanna be hurt anyway

34:34

i don't want that don't wasteful

34:37

have to share wasteful that burdened with

34:40

me and don't wanna go there so

34:43

i'm like tony like know enough about

34:45

him and him don't wanna know anymore

34:47

bottom

34:50

i think he was surprised that i found him we're

34:53

gonna play couple small portions of the phone conversation

34:57

it may be the

35:03

why i am very understandable

35:06

and i understand we're coming from thank

35:08

you yes but i respect

35:12

a lot of when you did that's very

35:14

important

35:18

tony and james didn't have any more questions

35:20

about clan dowdy i

35:23

did if the oblate said

35:25

pledged in court keep watch over him why

35:28

weren't they

35:35

the next episode of kuper island we

35:37

get a candid explanation from oblate leadership

35:40

about why they didn't want brother gwen dowdy

35:42

to leave spring hurst how

35:45

concerned are you that an oblate rather that

35:47

offended and every institution that he was

35:49

and is now now in your

35:51

karen isn't the broader community

35:54

it's for this reason duncan that we

35:56

strongly first man as

35:58

strongly as we could

36:00

not to with hum are you

36:02

worried recidivism i'm worried

36:04

about recidivism with any

36:06

offender

36:10

and we take a closer look at the intergenerational

36:12

effects of canada's indian residential

36:14

schools i'm

36:17

not bragging

36:19

i was when singer my

36:22

dad throw me cross rooms then

36:25

a beam me up until i found that singer

36:29

this is clueless singers

36:35

uber island is produced by martha try

36:37

and and jody martinson and hosted

36:39

by me down can make you a

36:42

, producer is jeff turner are

36:44

coordinating producer as roast me now

36:46

mixers er eben kelly and kate macintosh

36:49

and are of new ronnie as the director of cbc

36:51

of theme music

36:53

by cb want art by want

36:55

whitehill extra recording by

36:58

rob helps with studio assist with

37:00

gary francis i target

37:02

jimmy guage to james and tony charlie

37:05

dolores james and david paterson

37:07

if you need support you can access

37:09

emotional crisis referrals services

37:11

by calling the twenty four hour national

37:13

indian residential school crisis line one

37:16

eight six six nine to five

37:18

for for one nine or for more

37:20

resources on canada's indian residential

37:22

schools go to website cbc

37:24

don't go a slush keeper island

37:27

and be like this episode please help

37:29

others find like by rating and reviewing

37:31

us big which is in

37:33

dire thanks for listening

37:48

more cbc podcasts go

37:50

to cbc dot ca a slash

37:52

podcasts