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1:41

Male,

1:51

female, dog. I really

1:53

wish more of our material.

1:56

I'll see a dog's test. I

1:58

know you will.

1:59

I see dogs tits every day of my life.

2:02

He loves to. And he loves every second

2:04

of it. Uh-huh. And the many

2:06

pictures. Hey, Georgie, it's time for your mandatory

2:08

belly rub. Yeah, I give her belly

2:10

rubs all the time. She's a little girl, so she

2:12

has tits. And you are the

2:15

one who's saying, stop sexualizing corgis.

2:18

Oh. Georgie's tits are for Georgie's

2:20

babies that she's not having. I

2:22

actually have some big news from the Kissel household, but

2:24

I don't want to hear your humor about it.

2:27

But we'll start the show first. Well, I did the

2:29

last podcast, and I'm like, oh, don't do it. What

2:31

is your, what do you want to share? Big news

2:33

in the Kissel household.

2:35

Jerry now comes when I call him. And

2:37

no, he doesn't ejaculate. You

2:39

did that again. No, that was, I went to sleep

2:41

thinking, oh, Henry's good. If I say Jerry comes when I call

2:44

him, Henry's going to be like, oh, he ejaculates. Wow.

2:46

So I nullified that. He has really

2:48

been taking and assuming

2:51

my reactions recently. I'm chat GPT

2:53

for you. I think the word projection

2:56

is coming from him. I'm feeling some projection.

2:58

I'm feeling some projection because today's episode's

3:01

all about how how breasts need to

3:03

be covered. This is about

3:05

hiding tits. Protected. Protect

3:08

your tits. All right. Welcome to the

3:10

last podcast on the left, Ben, hanging out with Marcus,

3:12

hanging out with Henry and the newly,

3:15

just wow, this new philosophy. I'm

3:17

sure breasts need to be covered as

3:19

opposed to revealed for the world

3:21

to see. I mean, normally show them,

3:23

flop them out. I want to, I want to see them.

3:25

I want to see other people sucking on your tits. If

3:27

you want to get rid of your own breasts, great. You

3:29

could do whatever you want to them. I mean, I'm personally

3:32

in a bit of a breast renaissance right now because I've

3:34

been watching a lot of 70s movies. I watched

3:36

this movie, The Vampire Happening, the other night that

3:38

I absolutely adored. No less 15

3:41

to 20 pairs of breasts in

3:43

that movie. I watched this movie with Donald Pleasance

3:45

called The Mutations. Three pairs

3:47

of breasts in that movie. It was a

3:49

1970s update to Freaks, and yet they still

3:51

managed to put three pairs of breasts

3:53

in it. You know what bumped to the top of my looking

3:55

at boobs search list recently? Tawny

3:58

Catane, interesting.

3:59

Well, isn't that exciting? But

4:02

this episode... How does it tie

4:04

into the episode? I just gotta get

4:06

it out. I have to just understand this. A lot of this episode, I'm

4:08

gonna have to be... I'm gonna

4:11

be forced to be silent. Okay, good.

4:13

By markets. Wow! Because

4:15

a lot of this involves really intense

4:18

breast attacks. And

4:20

not in a way I like a breast attack, which

4:23

is six three angles

4:25

coming in and going, oh! You're

4:28

like, that's a fun and breast attack. This is

4:31

the opposite of that. You gotta pay double

4:33

for that. Alright, today's episode, you

4:35

wanna blood? Well, you're gonna get it. The Chicago

4:38

Rippers. Remember, you

4:39

asked for this. You asked for it. The

4:42

Chicago Rippers, AKA the

4:44

Ripper Crew, were a gang of four

4:46

psychopaths who murdered up to 20

4:49

women in Chicago over the course of

4:51

just a year and a half during the early

4:53

80s in a criminally underreported

4:56

largely forgotten crime spree. I think

4:58

it's largely underreported because

5:00

it's extremely unpleasant and

5:03

it is... most of it can't

5:05

even be portrayed on television. No. Oh.

5:07

So you're sitting there, you're alone right now, and you

5:09

have to

5:09

remind yourself, even these guys had friends.

5:12

So get out there and find your own Ripper

5:14

Crew, but make it like about bowling. Yeah.

5:18

We're the Ripper Crew, we play pool. When I meet the Chicago

5:20

Ripper Crew, I hope it's a bunch of guys who all like

5:22

fart songs. Oh, that's... oh,

5:25

polka farts. That would be incredible,

5:27

but this, again, opposite. Okay.

5:30

Now Ripper cases are so named

5:32

because they share features with the infamous Jack

5:34

the Ripper case of 1888. That

5:36

is to say, they usually involve the extreme

5:39

mutilations of sex workers. Yeah. But

5:41

while Jack the Ripper is arguably the most famous

5:44

serial killer to ever exist and Peter

5:46

Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper, he's been burned

5:49

into the British consciousness since the early 80s,

5:51

the Chicago Rippers, they hold no

5:54

such distinction in even local history.

5:56

Yeah, Chicago doesn't want to claim them. Mm-mm.

5:59

Weird.

5:59

Jack the Ripper gets his place in the history

6:02

books because he was the first modern serial killer.

6:04

And the Yorkshire Ripper case only got serious

6:07

investigative power after Peter

6:09

Sutcliffe started murdering members of

6:11

so-called polite society, non-sex

6:14

workers. The Chicago Rippers, however,

6:16

focused mostly, but not exclusively,

6:19

on sex workers, which makes the lack

6:22

of press coverage during and after the murders

6:24

both baffling and predictable.

6:27

I also wanna say this, there's nothing more polite than

6:29

sucking somebody off when they're stressed. Seriously.

6:32

So thank you, sex workers. Incredibly polite. Thank

6:34

you for keeping all of those South Dakota farmers

6:37

when they go to Vegas for that weekend. Thank

6:39

you for stopping them from murdering their family

6:41

for three years when you stomp on their balls. It's

6:43

incredible the work that you do, and

6:46

it's unfortunate

6:46

the way these people come at you. And I think

6:49

we brought this up recently. Don't come at

6:51

me with that. Don't come at me with that. Learn that sex

6:53

workers embrace it. Yeah. I know that.

6:55

Well, out of the 20-some-odd killed by

6:58

the Chicago Rippers, four weren't

7:00

sex workers.

7:01

One, however, wasn't a woman and was killed in a

7:03

random shooting, but three were still

7:06

the sorts of victims who usually get both press

7:08

and police attention, secretaries and the like,

7:11

not to mention the fact that they were white women.

7:13

And to that point, perhaps the reason why there wasn't

7:15

such a massive sense of urgency was

7:17

that the vast majority of the victims in the Chicago

7:20

Rippers case were black sex workers

7:22

who historically have the least amount of

7:24

investigative power placed into their

7:27

murder investigations. Talked about that

7:29

for years. This process of

7:31

looking

7:31

for the Chicago Ripper crew was decidedly

7:34

lazy, and they weren't caught if it wasn't

7:36

for a piece of truly just luck

7:39

was how they were caught. But thankfully they were, because

7:42

these are part of also why I think after

7:44

the fact that these were not reported, it's because we brought

7:46

up, because these crimes are particularly very,

7:49

very grisly, but also because

7:51

the men themselves that committed these

7:53

crimes, what we most know, most

7:55

what we know, we've talked about this before, about

7:58

any serial killer comes from the mouth. of

8:00

the serial killer themselves. Can't trust them.

8:03

Trying to put together, but mostly it's

8:05

because they're, what do we know about serial killers?

8:07

A lot of their narcissistic tendencies means they

8:09

want to be in charge of their own storyline.

8:12

They want to be on the cover of the Rolling Stone.

8:15

Yes, and they want everybody to know

8:17

their version of the story. These guys

8:19

have not spoken about these crimes

8:22

and they've also have not admitted that they even

8:24

did these crimes

8:25

ever. They have sort of,

8:28

you'll get to it. Because they all roll

8:31

back because every- They roll back,

8:33

but three of them get very extensive

8:35

with their confessions. Well, that's how we know

8:37

anything. But then after the fact, they're all

8:39

still saying that they're extremely

8:41

innocent. And talking about extreme, they're like, no, no, triple

8:44

X innocent. Triple X innocent. And of course,

8:46

when it comes to rolling back, we do have to remember Walmart.

8:49

Yep. Still rolling back. Always do

8:51

this day. I mean, destroying our society.

8:55

At the very least, the ringleader of

8:57

the Chicago Rippers never

8:59

admitted to anything and is still never

9:02

admitted to doing anything untoward

9:04

despite mountains. And I'm just so

9:06

happy again. Eyewitness reports, no physical evidence,

9:09

might you, but eyewitness evidence. And I'm just so

9:11

happy that Sam Wise was able there to help the

9:13

ringleader towards the very end when he was like, I

9:15

don't think I can kill this woman. You see, this

9:17

is why. And then Sam was like, you can kill this woman,

9:19

I'll carry you. Oh, we can

9:21

her fall, yay. This

9:24

is where you're really important here today, Kistle. I'm

9:26

bringing the levity.

9:28

And also like that your Frodo was Italian.

9:31

I don't think I can agree with what he said.

9:33

Honestly, Frodo's a very Italian name. It

9:36

does sound like pasta. But

9:38

I actually, I'm kind of taking it back or even to doing

9:40

this because I'm having a hard time kind of

9:42

concentrating

9:43

on anything since the loss of Gordon Lightfoot.

9:45

Ah, yeah. I know you've been quite devastated. If

9:48

you could read my mother,

9:51

what a tear so good. He

9:53

also mentions Wisconsin in the wreck of the Edmund

9:56

Fitzgerald. Till this day, I didn't know how many

9:58

of my friends were Gordon Lightfoot fans.

9:59

We're like, we're light-footheads. Yeah, I'm a light-foothead

10:02

for sure. I thought he was dead, otherwise I would've seen

10:04

him.

10:05

Sundown is like, that's how Natalie knew to avoid

10:07

me during quarantine.

10:08

When you listen to Sundown. She'd hear like,

10:10

Sundown, but okay.

10:13

When you heard that come out of my office, she just didn't. She

10:15

knew, don't go in there. That's half a bottle of whiskey

10:17

right there. And then a cigar that he has one puff of, but then

10:19

he's like, it makes me a little sick.

10:22

Well, as we've said again and again, because it bears

10:25

repeating, black sex workers, especially

10:27

in the 80s and 90s, they were the ones most

10:29

likely to have the letters DNI scrawled

10:32

on their body bags, meaning do not investigate.

10:35

And if there's no investigation, there's usually

10:37

no coverage.

10:39

And as it was, because the investigation and

10:41

the media attention was so relatively scant

10:43

during the Chicago River murders,

10:46

the team of four psychopaths who perpetrated

10:48

these crimes operated with near

10:50

impunity with a horrific glee

10:53

throughout. All right, so we got to ask Kansas

10:55

BTK Hot Dog Squad. We're in Chicago

10:58

here. The Bratwurst boys, how bad

11:00

were these cops? Were they as bad as the Hot

11:02

Dog Squad? No, well, the Hot Dog Squad was-

11:04

At least there was a squad dedicated to the BTK's

11:07

crimes. They tried, they very much tried. This was

11:09

like just pure- I just tried and failed, but- But

11:11

they at least, there was no task

11:14

force. Okay. No, there was not. Yeah,

11:16

because some of the Hot Dog Squad guys like

11:18

died with the BTK folder on

11:20

their nightstand. Okay. Like they never gave

11:22

up on that. I mean, it was mostly, yeah,

11:25

it was keeping up. The

11:27

Chicago Rippers would remove breasts with piano

11:29

wire

11:30

and have sex

11:32

with the wounds, either before or after

11:34

they tortured the victims with

11:36

homemade implements, and it

11:39

was always done in a mobile chamber of

11:41

horrors that took the form of a customized

11:43

red Dodge fan. Man,

11:45

can you imagine- A bit of a Toy Box Killer

11:48

vibes with that. Just being around, robbing, gek, and

11:51

even just seeing a grand piano, and it's

11:53

like not gonna cut a lot of money. Right. Like

11:55

he can really fit-

11:59

And then if he saw a harp. Oh, he'd

12:02

go crazy. He'd be like, oh, I don't have any dissemble.

12:04

I don't have any dissembling. That's what's there. I

12:06

can go, oh, look at that. You just go walk by, walk by fast. Sounds

12:09

like our business manager there. Well,

12:11

that's good. Have you seen Active

12:13

Killing, that documentary from back in the

12:15

day? I learned that you could kill a lot of people with piano

12:17

wire and I didn't know that. I mean, I knew it, but I didn't

12:19

really know it. And the mob uses it too. Yes.

12:22

But

12:22

we know about the victims and what

12:25

happened to them because three out of

12:27

the four Chicago rippers cop to the murders

12:29

during the investigation.

12:32

75% ain't bad. Ain't bad, that ain't

12:34

bad. The ringleader, however, never

12:37

confessed, meaning that it is highly

12:39

likely that his body count is

12:42

much higher. I utterly, utterly

12:44

believe that Robert Gect did

12:47

a lot more than what he said. That

12:49

was his name. His name was Robin Gect.

12:52

Silly, very sissy name.

12:54

It's a straight Gect. Yeah,

12:56

he's a, yeah. He's

12:59

one of those guys where like, even as I'm

13:01

trying to like joke around about him and going

13:03

in for information, one of this guy is in

13:05

the

13:05

world, of

13:08

the villains gallery of serial killers, he

13:10

is in the top echelon

13:13

when it comes to mean.

13:15

Mean and stupid. He's an

13:17

extremely bad guy. Yeah.

13:20

Right, that's funny. That's a funny term because I don't

13:23

really think of Jeffrey Dahmer as mean. I think of him as

13:25

meek and weak and then scared and then

13:27

horrible. Well, that's the whole thing is that with serial

13:29

killers, the cliche is, oh, he was

13:31

always so quiet. Oh, you would never know.

13:34

We never knew Dennis Rader was

13:36

BTK. We never knew that Jeffrey Dahmer

13:38

was keeping all these people in his apartment.

13:41

With Robin Gect, he was mean

13:43

and fucked up and cruel 24

13:45

hours a day, seven days a week, constantly

13:47

to everyone around him. With the name Robin tends

13:49

to be a little bit more feminine. I wonder if it's a boy named

13:51

Sue situation. I mean, there

13:54

is. It's

13:56

psychologically obvious

13:58

the way he does.

15:59

Yeah, well, it's gonna get detailed at multiple

16:02

points over the next two episodes. So we're mostly

16:05

just breast related I don't think they were about the chopping. No,

16:07

no, no, but I need to get it out I need

16:10

to figure out a way to get it out in

16:12

a way that's constructive Entertainment

16:14

creative creative. Yes, well

16:16

an overdue Thank you to Jessica and so without

16:18

further ado, let's get to the story of Robin

16:21

get and the Ripper crew

16:23

Robin get it sounds like a little frog

16:25

like it does. I hate they

16:27

I just hate the way it works It's also sad

16:29

because I hate the fucking the way the cops put this

16:32

to where they're like, it's about little man

16:34

syndrome Was

16:37

five foot seven well, we'll get into that Well,

16:41

we'll get we'll get into that And

16:44

I think it's interesting how much umbridge you take

16:46

with that We're gonna get into that later.

16:48

I just never said anything about Oh Jack the Ripper so thin

16:52

Unknown, we didn't know

16:53

who yeah Marcus hasn't complained. He was I

16:55

mean Jack the Ripper was certainly a thin

16:57

live Quick man. I did have

16:59

some I did have some anger towards the towards

17:01

the Ed Kemper

17:04

So Robin get was born in Chicago

17:06

in 1953 into a

17:08

classic hard-luck serial killer environment

17:11

that never let up during his entire childhood

17:17

Thank you That's

17:20

right you said I'm not

17:22

woke I am NOT work I'm

17:26

not work

17:28

The only love Robin ever got was from his

17:31

grandmother Sarah who doted upon her

17:33

grandchild by saying quote you are

17:35

my first

17:36

Grandchild that

17:38

makes you special. Well, that's nice.

17:40

Yeah, that was the only time anything ever nice

17:43

was ever grandmother on

17:45

your side though you have the whole house Your

17:47

fucking pussy's already done. You're a dinner

17:50

shit-ass work If

17:52

you remember Ted Bundy had the grandfather that didn't

17:54

work out too well didn't know it's about the grandmother

17:56

I seen But

17:58

unfortunately Robin was treated

17:59

as far less than special throughout

18:02

his formative years. It was kind of more of a joke.

18:04

I see. His brother Everett was

18:06

born three years after Robin, and his

18:09

sister, Rochelle, came two years after that. And

18:11

since the gecked home was so small,

18:14

Robin lost his bed to his two younger

18:16

siblings and had to sleep on the floor.

18:18

Soon after, his parents abandon

18:21

him to the, oh, he'll figure it

18:23

out on his own school of parenting that often

18:25

leads to, let's say, bad habits.

18:27

It leads to me, and I think it's

18:30

fantastic. What are you talking about? Your mother didn't

18:32

leave you, dear. Your mother actively took

18:34

you out of school and took you to the Piggly Wiggly. Did

18:36

she pet your hair?

18:38

No, no, she never pet my hair. Yeah,

18:41

and you also, you were raised for a

18:43

period of time. Yeah, you were raised. No, I know I

18:45

was raised. I'm just saying, yes, I'm a mama's boy. Yes, me

18:47

and my mom, I can go to Piggly Wiggly right now. I can get you all

18:49

the bags here really a lot. But what I'm saying

18:51

is, You're coming

18:53

straight to, you immediately want to support

18:56

Robin Geck but you immediately are

18:58

trying to apologize

19:00

for Robin Geck. One of the worst serial

19:03

killers of all time. No, no, no, I'm just saying,

19:05

sometimes when parents are a little bit more hands off, their

19:07

kids become podcasters

19:08

or artists or maybe

19:10

CEOs. And it's not his parents

19:13

fault that he became a serial killer. I'm starting to notice

19:15

a bit of a pattern. You really do fall on

19:17

the side of the serial killers who like to murder in

19:19

cars. Isn't that interesting? Isn't

19:21

that interesting? I don't. I don't. I

19:24

don't. I don't. I'm a Chevy guy.

19:27

Yeah, I was hanging out with my high school buddies. Like, when did you become

19:29

a Chevy guys? You don't remember?

19:31

I don't think so,

19:33

buddy. I was like, oh yeah. All of our cars equally

19:35

represent us because you drive a car

19:38

of the house of representative member from North

19:40

Dakota. You have a lesbian

19:43

school mother's car and my car

19:45

is of a tiny fat producer. A

19:47

Subaru Outback is a very versatile vehicle.

19:50

Four women that look like Elizabeth

19:53

Warren and their beekeeper

19:56

wipes. A versatile vehicle

19:58

for a diverse group.

19:59

of people. Absolutely fantastic.

20:02

And of course, I do love your

20:04

new bumper sticker that says, cross the picket line,

20:06

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that she'll need your help to decipher.

21:48

Will you be up for the challenge?

21:59

with death, which also

22:02

said quite a bit about the attentiveness of

22:04

his parents, or lack thereof,

22:06

pointed.

22:07

I'm saying, okay. When Robin

22:10

was six, he, his mother, and his siblings took

22:12

a trip to the grocery store. And while Robin's

22:14

mother went inside with Robin's infant sister,

22:17

she told Robin to stay outside to watch

22:19

his three-year-old brother, even though Robin was

22:22

only six. See, white trash is

22:24

international. No, but this is... It's this thing where

22:26

if you are... Because that is such a thing of

22:28

taking a six-year-old, me like, hey, watch your three-year-old.

22:31

That's double-ish. Yeah, you're figuring

22:33

it out. That's a double-up. I think that's okay.

22:35

It was the 60s. He's

22:38

completely a different child. He's neglected.

22:41

No! He's searching for his mother

22:43

still in many different environments. He

22:46

goes to the basketball men, and

22:48

he wants them to be his mother. He wants

22:50

the wings to be his mother. I just follow

22:52

that sweet, sweet sound of giggling. You're

22:55

big. Shut up. You're big.

22:58

I

22:58

did it. It's unknown whether Robin let events

23:00

unfold or whether he pushed them along. But

23:04

pretty soon, his little brother Everett had wandered

23:06

out into the street and got hit by a car. What do you think about

23:08

that now, Beth? Not good. My

23:10

older brother saved me from getting hit by a car because I

23:12

was darting into traffic, grabbed me by the shirt, and pulled me back. So

23:15

he was not a good older brother. He was not. No.

23:18

Everett survived with permanent brain damage. But

23:20

he was the fine one. No, he

23:22

got sent to an institution. Oh, no. Because

23:25

the Gek family was too poor to take care of him at home, and he

23:27

never returned. He just

23:28

popped into the... One of those. Probably

23:30

in the 80s if he survived until then,

23:32

just got

23:32

thrown out into the street. We used to

23:35

call it the CRISPR. Yeah, put him

23:37

in the CRISPR. Put him in

23:39

the CRISPR. Get some fresh. Technically, he's

23:41

lucky. I know that he's

23:43

now... At least he

23:45

doesn't have to be known as the brother of

23:47

Robin Gek that he just gets to go and kind

23:49

of rock back and forth in a room someplace else. Well,

23:52

perhaps to fill the Everett-sized hole in their

23:54

lives, or perhaps because the Gek's were just

23:57

too fucking stupid to stop. They

23:59

gave birth to another... child

24:01

in 1961. Julia and another child.

24:03

It feels too good to come inside. It

24:05

feels too good to come inside but you gotta just

24:08

you gotta wait. You get to do it a couple times

24:10

a month and that needs to be good enough if you're not going

24:12

to be on birth control. I also have no fetish

24:14

for it. It's

24:15

not a fetish. It's just pretty it's just good. I'm

24:18

just saying like having it. It just happened

24:20

to many children. It's very stressful. Well after Julia in 1961 there

24:23

was another Joanne in 1964 and it therefore

24:29

became Robin's job to take care of all

24:31

these little girls who seem to come in an

24:33

endless stream. Robin then had

24:35

to shoulder even more responsibility when his

24:38

beloved grandmother died of stomach cancer

24:40

and his father became ill with an

24:42

unnamed quote-unquote blood ailment.

24:45

Diseases used to be simpler. Yeah. Yeah. The

24:47

big up with the blood. He's got blood.

24:50

There's something wrong with his blood. That's

24:52

all you know. And this was all before Robin was 10

24:55

years old. So there's a lot going on. Now while

24:57

I don't want to get too much into armchair psychology

24:59

here it seems to me that Robin's early experiences

25:02

with the female gender was seen mostly

25:04

by him as a heavy burden. Robin's

25:07

entire life revolved around the care of girls.

25:09

And while most men come out of this experience with

25:11

a deeper appreciation for women. Or as I

25:14

say a very healthy

25:16

amount of fear which has really helped me.

25:18

Yeah.

25:18

Yeah. A feminine touch

25:21

you might say. I think Robin's

25:23

inborn psychopathic tendencies brought about

25:25

the opposite effect. Instead of love Robin

25:28

engendered nothing but hate towards women.

25:31

I also get just the straight up of kind

25:33

of this

25:33

system of he's become

25:36

a little mini parent. But I've seen a lot

25:38

of people come from this environment.

25:40

Yeah. And they didn't start Chicago

25:43

Ripper. That's what I mean. Inborn psychopathic

25:45

tendencies. Sometimes they start record labels.

25:47

Sometimes I mean a. There's just

25:50

something about

25:51

his height. But

25:54

again it's something about his height. It's supposed to fuel

25:56

your personality. I think also

25:58

being his height he's small.

25:59

than a lot of women or eye to eye. You know,

26:02

so maybe, anyway, that's the

26:04

whole thing. But you know what I have

26:06

become with women?

26:07

Neutral. You know, that's nice. You

26:09

just sit not happy, not angry. That's

26:11

good. You just sit not angry. Neutral. You just

26:14

sit away. You just sit

26:16

at big wings. Jerry comes when I call him. Come,

26:20

don't do it. He's gonna come

26:22

all over his fucking ass. Yeah, I figured he was

26:24

gonna do something like that.

26:26

Now Robin was of course a problem child

26:28

at school, always fighting, stealing, and starting

26:30

fires, all of which would of course draw

26:32

the ire of his father, who always,

26:35

even though he couldn't work, he always seemed to

26:37

manage and muster up enough energy to beat

26:39

his son despite his blood ailment.

26:42

I mean, it's all about what you like to do. Yeah,

26:44

that's true. But when the school had enough

26:46

of Robin's antisocial behavior, he

26:48

was sent first to a day school for troubled

26:51

juveniles. But when he refused to attend

26:53

of his own volition though, Robin was sent to

26:55

a troubled teen school for

26:57

eight months. Now almost certainly,

26:59

Robin was sent to the Chicago parental

27:02

school with the rest of the city's so-called

27:04

incorrigibles. But as far

27:06

as troubled teen schools went, this wasn't

27:08

one of the worst. I looked into the Chicago parental

27:11

school, mostly modeled after military school.

27:13

No corporal punishment was ever allowed.

27:16

The worst punishment also isn't the best punishment.

27:18

They would give kids 24 hours of solitary confinement

27:21

in a well lit, well ventilated room.

27:23

It's like more of a cool off room. That's

27:26

not the worst I've ever heard. Yeah, the crisper.

27:28

The crisper. Was Chucky there?

27:31

Chucky? Per-two! Chucky-two!

27:34

No. Military school! Nope, nope.

27:37

I don't know. I don't know. No,

27:40

I'm so scared. Sorry. Come!

27:44

You can read my mind, though.

27:47

You were saying Marcus? They did have a school newspaper.

27:49

It was called The Skipper. Yeah. They

27:52

had the Gilligan too, but that was mostly

27:54

just recipes for onion soup.

27:57

That's actually great.

27:59

But after eight months at the parental school, Robin

28:02

was brought home after his grandfather also

28:04

died. And his aunt quickly followed

28:07

her father with suicide because

28:09

she lost both her parents in less

28:11

than a year. It's again, as I said, it's

28:13

a hard luck serial killer story. It's just

28:15

nothing but misery and death and pain. I

28:17

know. It sounds like you should have become a graffiti artist.

28:20

Very much a designer. Yeah. Yeah.

28:23

It definitely sounds like this isn't

28:24

child's play. See, that's fine. That sort of

28:27

picks up. That's the name of the fucking movie I think. That's why I was thinking of the movie.

28:29

I'm all being chucky. Yeah. Well,

28:31

looking for some purpose in life, Robin, at the age of 15,

28:33

began working with his dead grandfather's

28:35

tools so he could learn enough electrical

28:38

know-how to repair television sets. That's

28:40

incredible. That's great. Yeah. As

28:43

his 1968 television sets are on the fritz all the time. He has literally 35

28:45

years of work ahead of him.

28:48

Yeah. By the age of 18, he met a girl

28:50

whom Deadly Thrills called Judy

28:52

Carson. Judy Carson, okay. It's

28:55

the first of many pseudonyms the author used to

28:57

protect the innocent. I see. Judy

29:00

gave birth to the first of Robin Ghek's many

29:03

children. Oh my God. Luckily for her, they

29:05

broke up and she married someone else, leaving Robin

29:07

far behind. Great. So after

29:09

an extremely short-lived return home in which

29:11

Robin was punched in the face by his father

29:13

hours after his arrival. He didn't want

29:16

him there. No. Because he, again, Robin

29:18

was a problem. Robin was a problem. Robin was violent.

29:20

Robin was mean all the time. Right.

29:23

Yeah. You wonder why the first, and definitely the first

29:25

marriage is all because of that. He was just not, he was not very

29:27

nice. Sure.

29:28

Robin, after that, drifted from woman to

29:30

woman for years until he met and married

29:32

17-year-old Rosemary McCaffrey

29:35

in 1975 when Robin was 22. The

29:39

first child was born a year later and two

29:41

more children would be born between then and

29:44

the year in which Robin was caught for the Riffer

29:46

murders, 1982. I wonder where these kids are.

29:50

Do you know what those kids are? No. I

29:53

don't need to know. I think that they would be like, that's not my dad. Actually,

29:55

yeah, I do know where one of us, one of his kids did

29:57

get convicted of murder and I think we're

29:59

going to

29:59

be covering that in the next episode. So yeah, these

30:02

kids did not come out. Oh, did it

30:04

come out great? Could be genetic. Oh, is

30:06

it the batter? Yeah. It might be

30:08

the batter. Something like that's what I was like. A bad pizza

30:11

starts with a dough. Well, that is true.

30:13

I say a bad pizza starts with the water.

30:15

That's what I say. Yeah, that's the cum. Yeah.

30:18

That's why I've accepted that. And

30:21

the flour is the eggs. That's why pizza,

30:23

bagels, bread, and coffee in Los Angeles

30:26

aren't very good because the water here is bad. But you

30:28

know you can't get a Chicago style

30:30

from a spot called Genos, which is close to

30:32

Chicago. Yeah, honestly, the bread can be good. Yeah, the

30:34

bread.

30:35

It can be. If they use filtered bread, they use tap

30:37

water. This is where you're showing some of your bias, but

30:39

we'll get you around. It's okay. It's okay.

30:41

Now, one of the most bizarre coincidences

30:44

in the Robin Gecks story came from

30:46

his choice of profession,

30:47

electrician, and it

30:49

comes from who he met as a result of that

30:52

career choice. The cable guy.

30:54

Yeah, Jim Carrey.

30:55

Features heavily in this. Wow. Yep,

30:58

somebody ass. Stop it. That's

31:00

a really good. That's from the mask though. That's

31:05

all they needed. See,

31:08

Robin had learned the basics of home repair from

31:10

his uncle Roger, and he therefore opened

31:12

his own electrical repair business by 1975. He

31:15

moved on from TVs. He moved

31:17

up to homes. Wow. Remember,

31:19

this is Chicago during the late 70s.

31:22

So if you're doing small time work that

31:24

involves working with contractors, then

31:27

there's a chance that you might have worked with

31:30

PDM and its CEO,

31:33

John Wayne Gacy. Whoa.

31:36

I thought we were going mob route. No,

31:38

I didn't know we were going J, John Wayne Gacy. John

31:41

Wayne Gacy. This is a, we'll

31:43

see because we're like,

31:44

where was there, was there involvement? Well,

31:46

let's unpack it a little bit. Yeah. Now

31:49

there's no evidence whatsoever that John Wayne

31:51

Gacy and Robin Gecks ever killed together

31:53

because why would they? John Wayne Gacy killed

31:55

men in his home and Robin Gecks killed

31:58

women in his van. Additionally,

31:59

Gacy was caught in 1978. Robin's

32:03

murders didn't begin until 1981, or

32:06

at least

32:07

provably didn't begin until 1981. But

32:09

now I believe it is a fact

32:12

that John Wayne Gacy had accomplices.

32:14

We don't know who these accomplices are. We

32:16

didn't know whether or not those accomplices also ended

32:18

up buried in the fucking basement

32:20

along with the other victims. And we would not know

32:22

that some of those victims might have been one

32:25

of his accomplices. But

32:27

again, tenuous? Tenuous, tenuous.

32:29

I think if you get murdered, you're no longer an accomplice.

32:32

Well, then yeah, you have graduated the victim. Yeah, you

32:34

have. Well, interestingly, they did know

32:36

each other. They absolutely knew

32:38

each other. This is what's, this is why I'm saying. That's

32:40

so fucking weird.

32:41

Well, I mean, we'll get to that in a second. But

32:44

Gect was almost called as

32:46

a witness during John Wayne Gacy's trial.

32:48

She is there. What? She's on the books

32:50

having been hired by PDM contractors.

32:53

So he was there at some

32:55

point. But again,

32:57

in what aspect? In what aspect? John

32:59

Wayne Gacy, could he see that Robin

33:01

Gect had, was he a little

33:03

bit too fucked up to even be an accomplice?

33:06

Is it a guy that you look at this guy and look, oh, this guy's

33:08

kind of fucked up? Too rogue. We

33:10

also talk about, too, John Wayne Gacy mostly would kind

33:13

of float.

33:14

So sometimes guys like to relieve each

33:16

other of their little stresses. Oh, sure. And

33:18

I don't know whether Robin Gect was like, ah,

33:21

I liked it. Yeah, I would imagine

33:23

if I were to speculate as to why Robin

33:25

Gect may have been brought in, I

33:28

would say it was probably because John Wayne Gacy

33:30

killed a lot of his own employees. And

33:33

since Robin Gect worked with John Wayne Gacy.

33:35

They just went through the roll of that. Since Robin

33:37

Gect worked with John Wayne Gacy, he might have been

33:39

called like that. Maybe this guy knows something

33:41

about an employee that disappeared at a certain point

33:43

in time. I think it's just a

33:45

fucking incredible coincidence.

33:48

Maybe something to do with the Polish day parade.

33:50

You know, I never know. Maybe Gect was

33:52

organizing all the marching for the Polish day parade.

33:55

Yeah, but then it turns out he did it on Italians day. Weird.

33:58

Now, Henry, I know you're stonking.

33:59

believer in the theory that John Wayne

34:02

Gacy had accomplices to the point where you just said it

34:04

is now proved that he had accomplices.

34:06

It's not a proven fact. In

34:08

the court of Zabrowski. That's

34:12

the court of Z. I'm not so, I still

34:15

believe it's speculation. Yeah sure

34:17

I do believe that it's just

34:19

more likely than not

34:22

that serial killers with extremely high

34:24

body counts have some form of accomplices.

34:27

As we've seen with Dean Correll as

34:29

we I think

34:29

that John Wayne Gacy is very similar as we know for a fact

34:32

that Henry Louis was trained by the CIA

34:34

in order to destabilize the American

34:37

system. That is completely

34:39

real. It sounds to me

34:42

like you have your jump to conclusions

34:44

Matt out. It's a jump to conclusions.

34:47

A jump into conclusions. But what's surprising

34:49

to me when people talk about the Gacy accomplice

34:51

theory is that no one

34:53

ever brings up the fact that Robin

34:55

Geck did exactly

34:58

what Gacy was supposed to have done and

35:00

he did it in the exact same city

35:03

at nearly the exact same

35:05

time. I mean it's a great environment for self starters.

35:07

Yeah I guess so. Yeah the Ripper

35:10

crew was made up of Robin

35:12

Geck and the younger employees

35:14

at his construction business. Eddie

35:16

Spencer and the Cockerelis brothers

35:19

Andy and Tom. And if there wasn't

35:21

a

35:22

bigger bunch of winners than

35:24

your life it's these incredible

35:27

young men. Wow. Because Andy

35:29

and Tommy

35:30

could both together tie

35:32

one pair of shoes. Well that's not bad.

35:35

But this thing if you're looking for accomplices

35:37

maybe it's the John Wayne Gacy new. You got

35:39

to go for real stupid. You

35:41

got to go for stupid but capable. Stupid well

35:44

capable in a way that they're really

35:46

good at

35:47

murdering women and helping you murder

35:49

women. Well that would be what the job calls for

35:52

in those cases wouldn't it. Well this is how all these

35:54

guys met.

35:55

Robin and his wife Rosemary were neighbors

35:57

with the Cockerelis brothers who came from

35:59

a-

35:59

a Greek Orthodox family ruled by

36:02

a violent tyrant who would lash

36:04

his children after he tied them

36:06

shirtless to a table. Usually

36:08

he did this for such paltry transgressions as

36:11

smoking a little weed. You get 15 lashes

36:13

for smoking weed. Whoa, I better

36:15

smoke some weed to make that not hurt so much. No,

36:20

we don't know exactly how Andy and Tommy were

36:22

roped into Robin Geck's life, but it's

36:24

likely that Robin simply offered them

36:26

jobs working as handymen at Robin's company.

36:28

They were neighbors. Yeah,

36:29

you need some more, come on. And they also

36:32

need to- I thought you got it Robin. I

36:34

can't wait. I mean, that's 90% of

36:36

it, just being in the right spot. That's right, yeah.

36:38

You saw them outside chopping up a couple

36:41

of melons. And he's like, you're perfect

36:43

for what I need you for. And he also babysat,

36:46

they also babysat his kids. Oh, that's

36:48

good. It's a really

36:51

large number of serial killers who were also

36:53

babysitters. Again,

36:55

it's really, you don't need a lot of references.

36:58

The Adventures of Babysitting XXX. So

37:04

Jeffrey Epstein was making all the elements.

37:07

Oh no, no, you know we're close with him,

37:09

it's Jack. Didn't

37:12

Noam Chomsky write that?

37:16

You got him.

37:18

Well, around 1978 or 1979, the

37:21

timeline is pretty vague

37:23

on this one. The fourth member of the

37:25

Ripper crew arrived.

37:27

See, Tommy and Andy Cocarellis had

37:29

a sister and she had a boyfriend

37:31

named

37:32

Eddie Spencer.

37:33

After 15 months of dating though, the

37:35

Cocarellis sister moved away and broke

37:37

up with Eddie. And Eddie soon after also

37:40

lost his job at an auto park store. With

37:42

that benchmark thing, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, relationship. When

37:45

people break up,

37:46

you sometimes you get the other guy,

37:48

right? Yeah. So it's nice when they do the divorce, we

37:51

got Eddie. Isn't that nice that

37:53

you got Eddie? Does he look like Eddie

37:55

from, from, oh my

37:57

God, everyone likes to dance. They liked it. Rocky Horp.

37:59

No, no.

38:02

Everybody likes to dance. That's

38:04

what they do. Desperate,

38:06

Eddie asked his ex-girlfriend's brother Andy

38:09

if he knew of any work.

38:10

Andy fatefully introduced Eddie to

38:13

Robin Gecht

38:14

and that solidified the Ripper crew lineup.

38:17

Yeah, because now you got two lumpy

38:19

goons, you got a skinny goon,

38:22

and then you got yourself because he viewed

38:24

himself as the sex symbol. Yes.

38:27

Now at this point, Robin Gecht was 30 years

38:29

old in the box. He was the older authority

38:32

figure. He was a little older than I expected

38:34

him to be. Yeah, Eddie was 21 and highly

38:37

vulnerable,

38:38

while Tommy and Andy were just teenagers

38:41

when they came under the sway of this surprisingly

38:44

charismatic Svengali. Oh,

38:46

this is gross though. Just 30 years old just hanging

38:48

out with a goon teenager? He is.

38:51

Honestly, they all say the same

38:53

thing.

38:55

They call him a Svengali. Like

38:57

what was his charisma that

38:59

brought him in? He's like, no, they were all

39:01

just dumber and shittier

39:04

than him. And he looked impressive

39:06

to them. But even then, he'd carry

39:08

the gnome if he was a human being. You

39:11

still got to have a little bit of charisma to sway

39:14

the dollars. I think you just need to be paying

39:16

the money to be hanging out with you. You're

39:18

their boss. So they're like, what happened?

39:21

That's what we gotta do. Because of the fucking

39:23

morons. And then mean, obviously,

39:25

and truly just brutal assholes.

39:28

And then Robin Gecht knew that.

39:30

And he's been like, I'm going to teach you kids

39:32

a thing or so about a thing or so. And

39:34

then it just becomes, it's all about touching

39:36

breasts with knives. And one person's charm

39:38

is just another person's turn off. So I don't think

39:41

that this guy was charming. Do you know how many people truly

39:43

consider me extremely charming?

39:45

Charming. Yeah. No, he can't.

39:47

He can sing and dance. I've seen him put on shows. Yeah,

39:50

you know, I've seen him do it. He's pathetic. Oh,

39:55

I'm a winner. We

39:58

sucked him right up there. We put him right there.

39:59

in that chair and all you can do is talk now. Well,

40:02

I would actually argue. You could break the picket

40:05

line. No, I'm not going to be a scam. You could. But

40:07

I would argue, though, that Henry, you're more

40:09

charismatic than charming. And

40:12

I would say the same thing about Robin Gecht. He wasn't

40:14

charming at all. So you're going to say, oh, that's

40:17

me and him. That's how we were like.

40:19

Yeah. I am charismatic,

40:21

able, strong, always

40:23

hard. I am far sighted.

40:26

5'7". Blood pressure lowered. Can

40:28

sing, dance, triple threat. Right?

40:30

Been around. Far sighted means you can't see

40:33

close to you. Far sighted means

40:35

I can actually see farts in the air. Dude,

40:37

I would love to see when someone farted and be like, know what

40:39

you did. Then you have leverage.

40:42

It's all about leverage. Leverage. Every

40:47

time I love it. Well, most people compare

40:50

Robin Gecht to Charles Manson

40:51

because both allegedly

40:54

use their influence to inspire brutal murders,

40:57

allegedly.

40:58

That, however, is not a correct reading.

41:00

Charles Manson was a bait and switch cult

41:02

leader. He was charming. Yeah, he was charming. And

41:05

he was a bait and switcher. He ultimately just wanted

41:07

to convince a bunch of 18-year-old girls

41:09

to leave behind the groovy Los Angeles hippie

41:11

lifestyle of 1968 to go live in Death Valley, where they could ride

41:15

dune buggies all day. Do you remember we had that, well,

41:17

top secret where we got this information from, but

41:19

we had an inside line who was a very close,

41:22

quote unquote, vague friend, pen pal

41:24

of Charles Manson, and talked about that, about how the

41:26

cart of Charles Manson was very

41:29

much just into as much pussy

41:31

as he could consume. Yeah, and then they

41:33

do say that Tex Watson, I don't think there's a Tex

41:35

in this story, was truly a great manipulator

41:38

and has his own cult in prison. Yes, Robin

41:40

Gecht is the two to combine. He's Tombo,

41:42

OK. But Robin Gecht, he's more of a bullying

41:44

manipulator. He found three young

41:47

men who were highly suggestible. And if we're

41:49

being honest, they were not in any way what

41:51

you'd call bright.

41:52

No, I think we've established a really stupid.

41:54

They were medically dumb. Yeah,

41:56

Tommy Cocoraylis had an

41:58

IQ of 77.

41:59

And if you listen to him talk he is

42:02

definitely spinning. Yeah, I mean

42:04

he absolutely is but

42:07

Again, there's something about somebody

42:09

of that Mind where

42:11

he's also like I got nothing to

42:13

do with this. I didn't do anything I

42:16

didn't say anything. I wasn't involved

42:18

in anything and you watch it He's like he's forcing

42:21

out of his mind and he's just trying

42:23

to not meanwhile. You're like, no you you

42:25

did though You certainly did. Yeah,

42:28

you definitely did Well,

42:29

additionally besides being a group

42:31

of dullards, right? I like how you put this here

42:34

though. Oh, it's low His IQ is low. Yeah,

42:36

it's like well Well, the thing is well things

42:38

about Tommy is that his IQ is low enough to

42:40

put him in like the mildly mentally challenged

42:42

category But it's still high enough where he could get

42:44

a driver's license. He's oh, that's good. I'm happy

42:47

to know that Lot

42:50

of those on the road there are

42:52

but besides being a group of dullards Robin

42:55

and his crew were all Relatively

42:58

short scrawny guys scrawny,

43:00

although not terribly short. We're not talking David

43:02

Miscavige short here Okay, Miss Cabbage

43:04

is tiny. Yeah, he's tiny. Yeah, they're

43:07

just short I mean Robin was as Henry said

43:09

he was the big man of the group. He was 5 foot 7 went 125

43:11

pounds I

43:13

got fucking 50 pounds on Robin. Yeah,

43:16

I'm a fucking bruiser compared to Robin.

43:18

That is extremely small. Yeah, very

43:20

slight Yeah, it's almost reason why you

43:22

he

43:22

took four men for them to

43:25

attack one woman at a time Yeah, I wonder

43:27

if that's also part of the psyche. Where's like I'm

43:29

a man No, he's a little bit I'm not a man He's

43:31

still in jail and he acts like he hasn't done anything Yeah,

43:34

and no it definitely was like a small

43:37

group of pixies or gnomes or

43:39

knickers Yeah, they're all attacking

43:41

all at the same time. There's all these tiny weird

43:44

little guys. Oh, that's horrible Yeah, normally you

43:46

just see those guys in a band like in a cover

43:48

band. Yeah, you know, that's a great way to bet That's

43:50

where you should be. Yeah, Chicago Rippers

43:52

Exactly

43:55

now as far as the right-hand man and the

43:57

Ripper crew went Eddie Sprezzer said

43:59

that he

43:59

who he became when he was around

44:02

Rob. This isn't me. This is nothing like

44:04

me. Uh-huh. But even before Robin

44:06

and Eddie hooked up, Eddie was known to be a disturbing

44:09

individual. I just was different. I was

44:11

different

44:12

to a lot of different people. Sounds

44:14

like it. But a lot of other people would say that's unique.

44:17

When Robin, bad

44:19

stuff. Bad guy. Well, for example,

44:22

a guy who knew Eddie from high school said

44:24

that- Ugh, yeah, I smell the smoked turkey from here. Ugh,

44:27

God. Ugh, sorry.

44:30

I just had a lot of turkey.

44:31

Well, for example, a guy who knew Eddie from

44:33

high school said that Sprezzer showed up to

44:36

prom with his mouth covered

44:38

in blood. But

44:39

instead of wiping it off, he enjoyed

44:41

how much it shocked everyone. And he spent

44:43

all night bragging that he'd just come to

44:45

prom after slaughtering animals in

44:47

the woods for quote unquote rituals.

44:50

Kind of cool. I mean, that's kind of fun.

44:53

I mean, that's where he did the thing. It's like, again, that

44:55

time, different me. Prom

44:57

brought horrible things on me. Prom is

45:00

stressful. There are many things that I can't

45:02

even be associated with more just because of what they bring

45:04

out of me. Malt chomps can't go. Because

45:07

I hate to share, I get enraged, I start

45:09

chopping breasts. Oh, wow, don't do that. I can't

45:11

even put me near a monopoly game.

45:14

Because next thing I know, oh, you got all the railroads?

45:16

Because what I, I'm tying you up in a van. I

45:19

hate myself when I'm playing monopoly. Chopping breasts, yeah.

45:22

Who knows if the prom story is true or not? Because

45:24

the true crime paperbacks of the 80s and 90s, they're

45:27

filled with stories from

45:28

high school classmates who always have

45:31

a fucked up story to tell about the killers.

45:33

More than the thing that you thought was super funny

45:35

back in the day, and now that he's one of the Chicago

45:37

Ripper crew, you're like, oh, well, actually now it's

45:39

kind of gross. Revisionist history.

45:42

But either way, the fact that it sounds like

45:44

it could be true certainly tells you

45:46

that Eddie was at the very least disturbed

45:48

when he met Robin Gecht during a vulnerable and

45:51

directionless period in his life. Additionally,

45:53

if Eddie hated it so fucking much, keep in mind

45:56

that he could have stopped Robin at any

45:58

point once the killing began, either by...

45:59

going to the cops, or even if you wanted to avoid

46:02

jail, just kill Robin yourself.

46:04

If you're gonna kill women, why not kill

46:06

the guy who kills the women, and then you won't

46:08

have to kill the women anymore? Well, just go to the place.

46:11

Yeah, it's interesting because

46:13

we talk about, you know, we did, but you know, Paul Bernardo,

46:16

we talked about Carla Homocca and how she,

46:18

in a way, we now know that we

46:20

believe that Carla Homocca was way more involved

46:23

than she kind of like, she protested, Doth

46:25

protested too much about how she was so

46:27

afraid of Paul. I do believe that she did

46:29

think she was

46:29

next and part of why she ended

46:32

up flipping on him in the very end, but

46:34

when it comes to victims being with somebody for

46:36

a long time, we, you could see

46:38

why. Like if you're trapped in a truly

46:40

abusive scenario, it

46:43

really can't truly feel impossible

46:46

to get out. And also the statistics, we know

46:48

that the most dangerous time in an abusive

46:50

relationship is when someone tries to exit.

46:53

That's normally when things really flare up and

46:55

things go bad, but when you are one of the other

46:57

murderers, you kind of, for me,

47:00

you lose

47:00

a lot of the argument that

47:02

like, I don't, I was a different

47:04

person than him. He wasn't his

47:06

fucking boyfriend. He was his boss

47:09

at a part-time job. Yeah, like quit. Yeah,

47:11

you just believe. Yeah, that's not that

47:14

difficult. I'll quit right now. I fucking

47:16

quit. Cool. I'm back.

47:18

Whoa, incredible. Whoa, and this is

47:20

their new like reunion episode. Wow. Awesome.

47:23

I've also changed a lot, guys.

47:25

Yeah? Yeah, I have. I

47:27

can't tell you what to how and what, in what way. And what, wait, improv

47:30

then. Jerry doesn't come when I call him anymore. That's

47:33

actually really sad. Yeah, that would be sad. He

47:35

just started a week ago. That's nice.

47:37

It's Jerry.

47:37

We came. Did

47:40

it happen? Don't do it. Don't fucking do it. Can

47:42

I ask you, has it happened more than once? Yes, multiple times. Okay,

47:45

well, he's doing it. I do a little thing with my

47:47

fingers. I go, whoop, come on in. That's incredible.

47:50

That's great, that's great. His brain is now the size of a small

47:52

peanut. No, probably a, oh, probably

47:54

a little bit of a, whoo, a little, a little tennis

47:56

table tail. What? Oh, oh,

47:59

oh. Pink ball, pink ball.

47:59

Oh, thank you. Jesus Christ.

48:02

Funny that you came up with the words table tennis before

48:04

you came up with ping pong. That's the

48:06

name of the game. I don't wanna know. I don't wanna

48:08

know all, I don't wanna know the switchbacks of

48:10

his thought process. Right from your

48:13

grave.

48:15

Well, when Eddie Sprezzer

48:17

was asked about this period of vulnerability

48:19

when he met Robin, Eddie of course didn't take

48:21

responsibility. He said, quote, If someone

48:24

had asked me at the time to be in

48:26

porno movies or rob a bank or anything,

48:29

I sure would have done it. Yeah, that's

48:31

totally different. But again, I was a different guy.

48:35

I said, Hey, do you wanna play for the New York Mets? I'm like,

48:37

yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I said, hey, show,

48:39

hey man, do you wanna be on television? You wanna be this

48:41

new? It's called MacGyver. Do you wanna be MacGyver

48:43

on the television show? Absolutely. I'll

48:45

take time away from what I'm doing here with the electronics business.

48:48

And I will go and do that. Yes. Cut off a pair of

48:50

tits.

48:50

Absolutely. That would be a, that's

48:53

where you really wanna say no.

48:54

Now, as opposed to the vast majority of serial

48:57

killers who begin their experimentation phases

48:59

outside of the home, doing it to strangers,

49:02

Robin Gect went against type and

49:04

first tortured his wife, which is doubly

49:07

strange. Contrary to what you might assume,

49:09

most married serial killers aren't physically

49:11

abusive towards their wives. Yeah, it's part of their

49:14

cover story a lot of times. Did some other

49:16

weird game of like, they get to live

49:18

a normal life and then have their secret ex-life.

49:21

Yeah. Robin, however, did not follow

49:23

that pattern. And I'm gonna state

49:24

that from this moment forward, this series

49:27

is gonna be heavy,

49:28

possibly even laser focused

49:31

on the act of breast mutilation. I

49:34

don't like it. No, I don't like it

49:36

either. It's for you guys, you know, cause we get a lot

49:38

of letters, especially when it comes to animal violence. Right,

49:40

a lot of people really upset they don't like animal

49:43

violence. Don't worry, there's gonna be some of that in this episode. People get really

49:45

mad great. And there's also some people get really upset

49:47

about like baby violence. Right, like people saying

49:49

bad things if you throw a baby out of a car, they get mad

49:51

at you. Rightfully, I'm sorry. If you choke a baby with a bunch

49:53

of rags, they get really mad at you. That would be

49:55

very sad to do a window. There's

49:57

a series of things you could do.

49:58

Everybody gets upset.

49:59

I'm like really I'm

50:02

upset about the breast violence. Yeah I'm

50:07

Offended Your content

50:09

because again, I think breasts are the most pure

50:12

Wonderful thing that that bring us all

50:14

together as a human

50:16

family. They do really are it's universal.

50:19

Yeah Going through a bit of a breast

50:22

disance Yeah, we've

50:24

been talking about it I

50:26

never left Okay

50:29

Because I'm growing older nice. Oh

50:32

my goodness I'll just look at a picture

50:34

of a butt to congratulations

50:37

on growth. I mean it's maturity Absolutely.

50:40

Everything's a pillow if you look at it like you're

50:42

tired

50:44

It's like it's like

50:46

if everything goes like a hammer if you know,

50:48

everything's a nail if you're a hammer It's

50:51

nice now It's interesting that the moment

50:54

in which Robin began exuberantly marching

50:56

towards serial killer behavior is also

50:58

the exact moment That he began bringing

51:00

Eddie Spencer into the fold See

51:03

after Eddie worked for Robin for only five

51:05

months Eddie went to Robin's house

51:07

to find that Robin had cut off

51:09

his wife's Nipples and it

51:11

simply left her there to believe it's really

51:14

You know the the domestic

51:16

violence against Rosemary is the

51:19

worst I've ever heard of and he's slowly built

51:21

up They feel like you know, we see people ramp

51:23

up We see serial killers ramp up their violence

51:25

as they go but normally it's outside Talk

51:28

about this it's outside of the home It's weird

51:30

because it felt like he was getting truly comfortable

51:33

with the violence with his family

51:35

first Yeah,

51:36

Eddie took her to the hospital But before

51:38

he could talk to the cops Robin intercepted

51:41

and told him that the crime could just as easily

51:43

be pinned on Eddie that does not even make sense

51:45

That's what you say to a moron, right? Well,

51:48

I mean if there's one thing Robin Gect was good at

51:50

it was stone-faced lion Robin

51:52

also told Eddie that if you went to the cops he'd

51:55

show them pictures of Eddie and Rosemary

51:57

having sex although I'm not sure

51:59

if

51:59

Eddie ever actually had sex with

52:02

Rosemary? I don't know. This is like, my mom got

52:04

a spam email that was just

52:06

like, we've hacked into your accounts and we have

52:08

nude pictures of you in the bathroom. My mom called

52:10

me fucking hysterical. Be like, how did

52:12

they get new pictures of me?

52:15

How did they, how did they see

52:17

me nude? Henry Thomas. This is like,

52:20

you know, 11 a.m. And I'm like, I don't know.

52:22

What are you talking about? She's like, they

52:24

sent an email. I didn't have pictures

52:26

of my friends. And I was like, that's not possible.

52:29

So again,

52:29

this is how you lie to someone

52:32

who doesn't know. It is interesting how you shoehorn

52:34

that story in. Fernando

52:36

brought up on top hat, a Roomba

52:39

did take a picture of a chick, take it a dump and

52:42

put it online.

52:45

So your mom, if your mom is a Roomba,

52:48

your mom might be, honestly, if that

52:51

does happen. I don't know. I let it see.

52:54

I might have to pull a Tom Green and just paint

52:56

your side of your house if there was a picture of

52:58

your mom making you just paint it of

53:00

your mother naked. No, we can't

53:02

have a Roomba because it scares Wendy.

53:04

Yeah, it's weird. I don't

53:06

enjoy them. No.

53:07

I like it. I wish I had a little robot

53:09

pet. Well, the thing is that Eddie

53:11

maintained that the only sexual contact he

53:14

had with Rosemary was the one time he

53:16

applied lotion to her breasts while

53:18

she was sunbathing topless. What is it, summer rental

53:20

with John Candy? Yeah, that would be, yeah. It's 1979,

53:24

man. Like shit's different.

53:26

It's so interesting for Robin to do this crime and he

53:28

says, like, you know, I have pictures of her, you know, having

53:31

sex together and we're gonna fucking, I'm gonna do something.

53:33

I'm gonna show the world about this. And then Eddie's like, you

53:35

know, the only time was the one time I just massaged

53:37

her wife's breasts before she was sunbathing

53:40

topless. So you could just see Robin going, you did

53:42

what? I mean,

53:44

I was lying. I cut those nipples

53:47

if I did that. We know that. I was

53:49

lying. Right. And so faced

53:51

with all the trouble Robin promised, Eddie

53:53

not only agreed to keep the secret, but he

53:55

also continued to work with Robin professionally.

53:58

He'd only been there for five months. Jesus,

54:00

what did the doctor say? Where'd your nipples go? Did

54:03

you fall down? I mean, don't the doctors

54:05

be like, they don't usually fall

54:07

off. They just did that. Yeah. Well,

54:10

most likely even with the blackmail,

54:12

I think Eddie stuck around hoping that he

54:15

might be included in a little of the old ultra-violence

54:17

later on. He liked it. I think he liked

54:20

it immediately.

54:21

Now we're gonna have a couple of big jumps in this story. Ben,

54:23

you're already asking questions. And I'm

54:25

not necessarily, cause you say like, what do the

54:27

cops do when the woman showed up with no nipples?

54:30

What did the cops do when the woman showed up with no nipples?

54:32

I don't fucking know. The book's not that well written. No,

54:36

does it come with two plastic nipples? We

54:38

did a lot of, yeah, honestly, those were incredible.

54:40

Yeah. Cause it's just nice to see what other

54:42

kinds would look like on the screen. Isn't that fun? And

54:44

Robert himself never confessed to any of his

54:46

crimes. And the people who did confess

54:48

to the crimes are fucking morons. Right.

54:51

And then half lying. And then don't

54:53

know, we don't know what's up or what's down. But

54:55

I also wonder if it comes down to just straight up domestic violence

54:57

at the time. If she did not

54:59

want to press charges, if she didn't want

55:02

to, they might not have even just showed

55:04

up. You might have just been like, cause even

55:06

she talks about how his

55:08

obsession with her breasts

55:10

got and hurting her breasts kept

55:13

rising and getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And

55:15

he was like, I want to see how they work. I want to see the inside

55:17

of them and stuff. Nothing tough, masculine,

55:19

cool, whatever, about domestic violence. You're

55:22

a pussy and a bitch. Yeah. And

55:24

if you are in there, it's very tough. Yes. And there's

55:26

some resources out there to get you out. Let's hope so.

55:29

But what we do know is that after Robin cut off

55:31

his wife's nipples, a steady stream

55:33

of teenage girls began flowing through

55:35

his house. These girls would party all night.

55:38

Sometimes they'd refuse to leave, but Rosemary

55:40

was of course too terrified to protest.

55:42

So this is your Dean Coral kind of crossover.

55:45

It's really weird because no one wanted

55:47

to see, he's just inviting like children

55:49

over to hang out in the house and fuck and party

55:52

and duels kind of stuff. And no one's like saying

55:54

anything. They're just kind of letting it rock. I

55:57

think they're, because they're already very scared of him.

55:59

Weird.

55:59

Seeking to take this decadent lifestyle

56:02

even further into the realm of the sadistic,

56:04

Robin began customizing his roomy

56:06

red Dodge work van to turn it into

56:09

a mobile chamber of horrors designed

56:11

specifically to commit torture murders.

56:13

Well, the problem here is exhibit with the Pimp

56:15

Your Ride. We have an application. This guy

56:18

says that he's going to want to make it a torture bus. Yeah,

56:20

we put a torture bus in your torture bus

56:22

so you can torture bus while you torture bus.

56:25

There

56:26

you go. In addition. I had to. I

56:28

had to complete the exhibit. He did this to me. I

56:31

had to complete the thing. In addition,

56:33

his behavior in his personal life was also

56:35

descending into the depths of

56:38

decadence. Cutting the nipples off was only

56:40

the beginning.

56:41

See, while Robin was married to Rosemary, he

56:43

also had a girlfriend named Tina who

56:45

had quite a bit to say about Robin's lifestyle

56:48

leading up to the murders. While they were together,

56:50

for example, Robin was accused of raping

56:52

a 15 year old girl at gunpoint

56:55

and Tina said he always had a wide variety of

56:57

pills at his disposal that he would freely

57:00

hand out, if not force on others. And they

57:02

would become his M.O. Yeah. Tina

57:04

also said that Robin was obsessed with Elvis

57:07

and had amassed a huge collection of records,

57:09

coffee cups, pictures and other memorabilia

57:11

that no one was allowed to touch

57:13

but him. That's a true crossover star.

57:16

To not bring Elvis into this.

57:18

I mean, yeah. The kid in the Graceland. Again,

57:20

that's how big he was. Yeah,

57:22

that's true. When Tina asked Robin

57:24

if he believed in God, he allegedly said, quote,

57:27

I only believe in those things myself

57:30

and Elvis Presley.

57:31

What the fuck is that?

57:33

Well, Robin's obsession with Elvis was indeed

57:35

strong. It paled in comparison to

57:37

how much Robin was obsessed with large

57:40

breasts to the point where I would say that Robin

57:43

he was haunted by his obsession.

57:47

You live in the Midwest. You can find them. I

57:50

don't like that is what the Midwest is. It's

57:53

craven,

57:54

weird, childish in

57:56

its obsession. And then what

57:58

we talk about a lot.

57:59

in this, where there's something about the

58:02

people that do these extreme crimes

58:04

have this sort of a child-like,

58:07

it's an immaturity that is diabolical.

58:10

Right. You know, like, it becomes, it's scary

58:13

because it really is surface-level

58:15

obsessed wanting, like, because

58:18

one thing, apparently one thing Keaton

58:20

was mined was that he had read stories

58:23

about quote-unquote, like uncultured

58:26

civilizations using breasts as,

58:28

like, bags, like, using literally,

58:30

like, using them as, like, fucking, they would tan

58:32

them and use them as, as, like, holding back and

58:35

he was like, as totes and he was, like, obsessed

58:37

with shit like that. It's like, I don't, because I like

58:39

boobies, but I like them on a woman. Yeah.

58:41

No blood. On the inside. Blood

58:44

can be on the inside. I like it

58:45

nice. I like it to be friendly.

58:48

I like everyone to be happy with the show and

58:50

the boobs. I like happy boobies. I

58:52

like happy boobies. Where everyone's happy,

58:54

it's all happy. We're all smiling, you

58:56

know, like, I have huge tits. Yeah. Real

58:59

nice melons on you there. And of course

59:01

the booby person's brought to you by Buba-lungsia.

59:04

Buba-lungsia. Buba-lungsia. Buba-lungsia.

59:07

Is that a new ad for Nano? Is that one of the new ads?

59:09

Belciaga. Is that the new, like, Buba-lungsia?

59:11

Oh, Balenciaga. Oh, Balenciaga. We

59:14

are not advertised by Balenciaga. No,

59:16

we are not. Well, this infatuation

59:18

with large breasts, Robin said he

59:21

explained it away by saying that it was genetic.

59:23

True. He said, quote, It's a

59:25

thing with my entire family, going

59:28

back as I'm told by my great-grandfather.

59:31

Each of us men have married large-breasted

59:33

women. My ex-wife is a 39B,

59:36

and yes, she

59:38

was very satisfying to me. Well,

59:41

okay. Why, well then, okay, go on. He

59:43

was just a, it is weird. But then why does he

59:45

hurt them? The movie! The fucked up. Yeah.

59:48

Right. What was more, Robin was also obsessed

59:50

with how breasts worked. When his girlfriend

59:52

Tina became pregnant with Robin's third,

59:55

fourth, maybe fifth child, Robin

59:57

insisted that she let him watch her breastfeed

59:59

after the baby's death.

59:59

was born so he could quote, see

1:00:02

how the milk flowed into

1:00:04

the breast. See, I don't know how that

1:00:06

works. I don't know if it works from the back, but like we

1:00:08

kind of talked about it, but like it is, you know, when you go out to

1:00:10

dinner when someone's got a baby and it's

1:00:13

nice. You've talked about it, we haven't talked about it. You

1:00:15

know, they just snap out the boobies, they snap

1:00:17

them out, like, and they feed the baby. I know

1:00:20

that

1:00:20

that's societally correct and fine.

1:00:22

That's normal, healthy, natural. And

1:00:25

then you do a- But I'm not allowed to look. No,

1:00:27

you're not supposed to stare, no, you do a mess. You're

1:00:30

supposed to be- No, I'm not staring, but

1:00:31

I look up. I wear sunglasses. I

1:00:34

wear sunglasses. You treat it like a salt

1:00:36

shaker. When

1:00:39

you see it when you're at dinner, do you stop

1:00:41

and stare at the salt shaker? Do you notice

1:00:43

the salt shaker? Yeah, the salt shaker's not open,

1:00:46

female breast. No, the salt shaker-

1:00:48

It is different.

1:00:48

It is different indeed, Henry. Yes,

1:00:51

it is different. And then Henry does

1:00:53

a mental face swap between he and the baby.

1:00:56

And it's just Henry's face on the baby. Well,

1:01:00

Tina said that for the longest time, all

1:01:03

that Robin would talk about was breastless.

1:01:05

I know, we know. You

1:01:08

don't always look. I don't. You don't always

1:01:10

look. You don't make anyone uncomfortable. I

1:01:12

never did. You're just saying that it's hard

1:01:15

to ignore. Protest too

1:01:17

much indeed. I think so, I tried moving

1:01:19

on. You are not-

1:01:20

It's a whole troubling

1:01:23

episode. I think we're already

1:01:25

making jokes. Sure. Well,

1:01:28

Tina said that for the longest time, all he would talk

1:01:30

about was breastless and breastless. But of course,

1:01:32

these conversations would take dark turns.

1:01:35

Yes, yes. To that point, Robin

1:01:37

was always after Tina to cut off her

1:01:39

own nipples so he could see what was inside.

1:01:43

He told her that sex workers did it for him all the

1:01:45

time. What's the big deal? They cut off their nipples for him?

1:01:47

They cut off their nipples all the time. No, they didn't. They did it

1:01:49

all the time. No, they don't. They did it all the time.

1:01:51

And it's- No, they don't fucking grow back. he'd

1:01:54

find someone who would, which is a contradiction because he just said

1:01:56

that these sex workers cut off their nipples all

1:01:58

the time for him. I don't think-

1:01:59

He's arguing in good faith. I don't think so either.

1:02:02

Well,

1:02:03

as far as where Robin wanted to have

1:02:05

sex, it seems like he was taking his customized

1:02:07

torture van for test drives of a sort with

1:02:09

Tina, both in the coital

1:02:12

fashion and in the torture fashion. When

1:02:14

they'd have sex in the van, as was Robin's

1:02:16

preference, he'd chase her around and

1:02:19

stick pins in her breasts because

1:02:21

inflicting pain was the only way Robin could become

1:02:24

turgid. It became, this

1:02:26

really did. It became, he had to inflict

1:02:28

pain. To feel sexual

1:02:31

involvement. On other people. If

1:02:33

he wants to stick himself, whatever. And

1:02:36

again, if someone likes it, then

1:02:38

you do it, but not if they don't like

1:02:40

it. Yeah, the old pin cushion there. That is not

1:02:42

good. Well, his wife got it the worst. Tina

1:02:45

said that one time she went over to Robin and Rosemary's

1:02:47

house and noticed that Rosemary was pale and

1:02:49

sweaty. When Tina asked her what was wrong,

1:02:52

Rosemary lifted her blouse to show that

1:02:54

Robin had stuck six hat

1:02:56

pins into her breasts. Rosemary

1:02:59

said that Robin refused to let her remove

1:03:01

them until he said so. He'd injected

1:03:04

novocaine into her breasts so the pain

1:03:06

would be bearable enough for her to go about her

1:03:08

day. But nevertheless, the

1:03:10

wounds still bled constantly.

1:03:13

Horrible.

1:03:14

Now, naturally, Rosemary was terrified of Robin

1:03:16

to the point where she would actually confide,

1:03:19

she was confiding in her husband's girlfriend.

1:03:21

Yeah. Because she had no one else to talk to.

1:03:23

He cut them off entirely. He cut the

1:03:25

whole world off inside of this house. It really was.

1:03:28

It was a world of nightmares. Yeah.

1:03:31

Besides the further breast mutilation like lighting her

1:03:33

breasts on fire after dousing them with lighter

1:03:35

fluid, he would do extreme breast bondage.

1:03:38

Robin also involved her in humiliating

1:03:40

bestiality and animal cruelty.

1:03:42

This is a toy box killer shit.

1:03:44

Oh, dude. This is

1:03:46

a different kind of bestiality. This is one of the, I

1:03:48

want to say

1:03:49

this little section is one of the worst stories

1:03:52

I've heard almost in our entire

1:03:54

show. Also why did you pitch that like a

1:03:56

cult leader? It's a different kind of bestiality.

1:03:59

You're not like that anymore. You're not

1:04:02

like that. It's just like crypto. I'm

1:04:04

curious. I am not curious.

1:04:07

Well, on one occasion, Robin forced

1:04:10

Rosemary to bring her parents' big dog

1:04:13

over to their house. And this is what's so strange

1:04:15

about it. This is so weird.

1:04:17

He made Rosemary bring the dog

1:04:20

over

1:04:20

so he could have sex with it. This

1:04:23

is so weird. So he would make, because

1:04:25

he wanted to make her watch him have

1:04:27

sex with the dog. And to prove

1:04:30

that Robin did it, when Rosemary told

1:04:32

Tina about it, she had a pair

1:04:34

of Robin's underwear that was like covered in dog

1:04:36

hair. Oh my God. And I just feel

1:04:38

that I've received Fernando frowning. I get it.

1:04:41

Christ. It really is. I

1:04:43

really hope he's getting beat up right now.

1:04:45

He is. They are in solitary.

1:04:48

They can't go anywhere. And later, when that dog was about

1:04:50

to have puppies,

1:04:50

Robin dragged it to the basement,

1:04:53

beat it to death with a baseball bat, and

1:04:55

cut out the puppies so he could store them in

1:04:57

jars of alcohol as a macabre

1:04:59

decoration. And I do want to point out they were not

1:05:01

his.

1:05:03

They were not his. It's the hair color. I knew

1:05:05

that he just went right from like, he fucked it. And

1:05:07

then when it was ready to have puppies, there must've

1:05:09

been something else to say. I never thought I could act

1:05:12

this way. And I'm about to

1:05:14

say I just don't

1:05:16

get it. RFP Gordon.

1:05:18

I don't know where I'm on

1:05:20

my thing.

1:05:21

What a tribute episode to Gordon Lightfoot. He really

1:05:23

is. This is about the Gordon Lightfoot family.

1:05:27

And speaking of dead bodies, Robin would

1:05:29

brag to Tina that he'd figured out a foolproof

1:05:31

way to dispose of a body. He said

1:05:33

that all you had to do was take the body

1:05:35

to a cemetery where they'd already dug

1:05:38

a grave. You go the night before a funeral. Then

1:05:40

you throw the body into the hole and

1:05:42

cover the corpse with dirt. Then the next day,

1:05:44

the casket would be lowered on top

1:05:46

of the victim. And then the body would

1:05:49

disappear forever. And that right goal right there, that's

1:05:51

to burial someone, that's called a sale. It's

1:05:54

the single stupidest

1:05:55

idea. And he's like, wow.

1:05:59

That's why

1:06:01

I'm the leader. This is what is so scary

1:06:03

about all of it, all the work, all the self-improve, everything

1:06:05

we try to do as a people, and then it's just a moron.

1:06:08

Yes, truly. Well, because again. It's all fucking

1:06:10

Steven Patek's out there. Dumb and mean

1:06:13

is one, it's a truly powerful

1:06:15

combination. That is true. Because you don't care, because

1:06:17

if you are truly a fucking moron, you

1:06:20

do not have very good impulse control.

1:06:22

You also cannot understand, it's the empathy

1:06:24

is a learned skill. Empathy is a good thing you really have

1:06:26

to sit and think about. You have to understand other

1:06:28

people have perspectives. It makes your life super

1:06:31

complicated. It's not as simple

1:06:33

as just everybody's meat walking around. You could do

1:06:35

everything you want to them. Because again, you

1:06:37

can make moves on somebody really

1:06:40

hard, because most people trust

1:06:42

other human beings. So the mean quality

1:06:45

that also makes you truly dangerous,

1:06:47

because we want to trust other people.

1:06:50

Yeah, but you know what it is funny? Sometimes you're mean, but you

1:06:52

serve soup all saucy. And then

1:06:54

you're a soup Nazi. A soup Nazi. A

1:06:56

soup Nazi. We did a picture with the actor

1:06:58

that plays him. He was very intoxicated. So

1:07:00

were we.

1:07:01

But the fact remains that

1:07:03

Robin was quite giddy talking about the prospect

1:07:05

of getting rid of a body. And he would indeed

1:07:07

do something similar with one of the Ripper Crew's

1:07:10

early victims. And it actually worked.

1:07:12

Now before long, Robin's fantasies of actually

1:07:14

killing someone began to inch their way

1:07:16

into reality. And he wasn't at all concerned

1:07:19

with who saw him doing it, nor was he concerned

1:07:22

that anyone was going to turn him into the police.

1:07:24

For example, he started building his own primitive

1:07:26

torture tools. He built a poker that

1:07:29

he constructed by fixing a hat pin

1:07:31

to the end of a long broomstick. And he'd

1:07:33

use that to chase around Tina, stabbing

1:07:36

her, poking her. She tried to throw it away,

1:07:38

but every time she threw it away, he'd just make

1:07:40

another one. It's weird though, right, about how like she

1:07:42

treated him like he was a child too.

1:07:44

They all kind of danced around him like

1:07:46

he was a kid as well. Treating

1:07:49

this like these weren't serious. I know that they

1:07:51

were and they're very scared, but just being like, I

1:07:53

throw away that torture tool of yours.

1:07:56

And then you've been like, well, I'm going to have to go make

1:07:58

another one. Like it's like it's his.

1:07:59

favorite recliner. And I just searched

1:08:02

a hat pin and they are quite large. They're very

1:08:04

large. Yes. More disturbing, however,

1:08:06

were Robin Ghek's homemade axes.

1:08:09

Again, using a length of broomstick, Robin

1:08:11

would embed a thick triangular piece

1:08:14

of glass, making a weapon that

1:08:16

was both terrifying in its primitive appearance

1:08:18

and surprisingly efficient in its execution.

1:08:22

Tragically, that first execution would occur

1:08:24

in late May 1981. Three years after the prosecution

1:08:26

of John Wayne

1:08:29

Gacy. So I think it's keeping us

1:08:31

in this world. Remember, like

1:08:33

this is the height of serial killer,

1:08:35

like panic in America. I wonder

1:08:38

if he saw what John Wayne Gacy did and

1:08:40

I wonder if he normalized it. Whereas that just

1:08:42

happens here in Chicago. It might. No,

1:08:44

who knows? Well, again, we don't know how the

1:08:46

idea was first brought up, but starting in 1981, Robin,

1:08:48

Eddie, Tommy

1:08:50

and Andy started taking out

1:08:52

Robin's red van into Chicago to

1:08:54

pick up sex workers to assault. And eventually

1:08:56

they would work their way up to murder. So

1:08:59

after cruising around for a while, Robin would spot

1:09:01

a sex worker on the street, always choosing

1:09:03

a black woman because he presumably knew, just

1:09:05

like Jeffrey Dahmer knew, that a black person's

1:09:08

death would get a half-hearted investigation

1:09:10

at best, especially in the early eighties.

1:09:13

At first, Eddie and Andy were the ones who would

1:09:15

crawl into the back of the van and stay

1:09:17

there just before Robin picked up the potential

1:09:20

victim.

1:09:21

They'd then wait for two taps from Robin. And

1:09:23

at that moment, they burst out the back doors

1:09:25

and forced the sex worker into the back of

1:09:27

the van, immediately creating an atmosphere

1:09:30

of terror. Again, it's four on one. It's absolutely

1:09:32

horrible. It's horrible. Yeah. Usually

1:09:34

it was three on one. Yeah. Well, then every

1:09:36

once in a while when Eddie

1:09:38

would come around. Every once in a while when Tommy

1:09:40

would come around. Yeah, that's what it means, Tommy.

1:09:42

Ironically, considering what eventually happened,

1:09:45

Robin would assure

1:09:45

Andy and Eddie each time that they

1:09:48

wouldn't get in trouble for participating in these

1:09:50

crimes. But once it was all said and done,

1:09:52

they faced far more charges and

1:09:55

were sentenced to far harsher punishments

1:09:57

than what Robin ever received. Really?

1:09:59

Well, he flipped on them and then also there's

1:10:02

this angle if whether or not you believe it

1:10:04

or not that he thought that they were Doing some

1:10:06

form of that they would get to some form of

1:10:08

magic ritual, which is I Part

1:10:11

enough for that. We're gonna push it out smart

1:10:13

enough to even read next episode. We're gonna

1:10:15

pass all that out. Yeah

1:10:20

Now the Ripper crew claimed that the murder started

1:10:22

before May of 1981 but

1:10:25

in the first known murder Andy

1:10:27

and Robin were cruising north Chicago in the torture

1:10:29

van when they pulled over and spoke with

1:10:31

a sex worker named Linda Sutton who worked

1:10:33

the area around Wrigley Field After

1:10:36

getting into the van they drove her to a popular

1:10:39

spot 30 miles away Where sex

1:10:41

workers could get the job done for an hourly

1:10:43

fee a place called either the moonlit

1:10:45

motel or the Rip Van Winkle? Depending

1:10:48

on the source of her two things Rip Van Winkle

1:10:50

is a very scary name for a hotel Yeah,

1:10:52

the floor that he was like eating kids.

1:10:54

Yeah, nothing with What the fuck is Rip

1:10:56

Van Winkle again, he slept too long

1:10:59

still it sounds like he's dead Golden

1:11:04

hair or some shit. No, I think that is rumple

1:11:06

still skin. I'm thinking rumple still Rip

1:11:10

Van Winkle just slept too long. He slept too long. He

1:11:12

slept too long Yeah, he slept and he slept and he slept and

1:11:14

they won't when he woke up He had a big beard and it was like 200

1:11:16

years later and he's very sad. What's the story

1:11:19

that don't sleep too long Don't sleep why he

1:11:21

lived. No because you miss so much. He

1:11:23

was a fuck What

1:11:26

are we missing? See very interesting it takes

1:11:29

on

1:11:29

tail Yes, but either way the a third member

1:11:31

of the Ripper crew Eddie Spencer. He was at

1:11:33

the motel waiting This was all

1:11:36

pre-planned. This is like devil's

1:11:38

rejects. Yeah. Yeah now Linda

1:11:40

immediately recognized that something was wrong here

1:11:42

And she refused to get out of the van But

1:11:45

on Robin's orders Andy and Eddie

1:11:47

forced her out and while they held her down Robin

1:11:50

punched her in the face until she crumpled down But

1:11:52

instead of taking her into the motel Robin

1:11:55

and Eddie dragged Linda to a field

1:11:57

behind the motel while Andy

1:11:59

turned to the van and watched from the front seat.

1:12:02

Now, according to Andy's later confession, Eddie

1:12:05

held Linda down while Robin raped her.

1:12:07

Then Robin pulled out his homemade glass

1:12:10

broomstick ax and struck Linda

1:12:12

three to four times in the chest. He

1:12:14

then took a length of piano wire and

1:12:17

severed Linda's left breast before

1:12:19

returning to Andy. The two of them

1:12:21

left in the van while Eddie left in

1:12:24

his own car. Of course, leaving

1:12:26

the corpse behind the lonely field

1:12:28

behind the Rip Van Winkle, where

1:12:30

it would stay until a housekeeper noticed

1:12:32

the stench

1:12:33

three days later. Oh, do they

1:12:35

take the breast as a prize? We'll get

1:12:37

to that here in a bit.

1:12:39

Now, even though Linda Sutton's body had been exposed

1:12:41

for just a few days, the large wounds

1:12:44

inflicted on the chest, in addition to the removal

1:12:46

of the breast, had allowed bacteria,

1:12:48

parasites, and maggots to break down the

1:12:50

tissue at an accelerated rate, giving

1:12:53

the appearance that the body had been there for

1:12:55

weeks. Yeah, I was watching some old school,

1:12:59

old fashioned true crime docs about

1:13:01

this. And they're all like,

1:13:02

mostly parasites enter through

1:13:04

the mouth. Cause it's already

1:13:07

an open hole. And they search their

1:13:09

way through the anus to find

1:13:11

their way to the sweet, sweet

1:13:13

guts inside. And you're like, all right,

1:13:15

buddy. I know you're getting too hard

1:13:17

on it. I know you like this. I was watching

1:13:20

a thing on when they find bodies, the

1:13:22

people that go in and clean up the bodies and the woman that

1:13:24

ran it. She's like, we think those little bugs

1:13:27

are like our best employees because it just

1:13:29

takes one fly to lay some larva and then they just

1:13:31

eat the human flesh. She's like, those are our best

1:13:33

employees. You're like, those are all good. Disgusting.

1:13:36

Great. It takes a smile.

1:13:38

The way they taste your smile. Sometimes there's brain

1:13:40

fragments, but they just take care of it. I was like, how do you

1:13:42

want to get in here?

1:13:43

When that person likes their job, I'm fine with it. I love

1:13:45

it. Somebody's got to like it. Yes. Someone.

1:13:48

Now, to be fair, this was not necessarily a DNI

1:13:51

murder because police did investigate just

1:13:53

a little. While the body was near skeletal,

1:13:56

the arms were still bound by cheap handcuffs

1:13:59

with a broken key. still in the lock, which

1:14:01

is a detail Andy Kokorailis

1:14:03

missed. Additionally, a strip of cloth

1:14:05

had been stuffed in the mouth, presumably to muffle

1:14:07

any screaming. And while there were no shoes

1:14:09

on the body, there were still socks. And stuffed

1:14:12

inside those socks was the sum of $13. Oh,

1:14:15

so they didn't take the money? They

1:14:17

didn't, I mean, because it wasn't a robbery. They didn't, they

1:14:19

wasn't a robbery. They didn't care. Interesting. And they also

1:14:21

probably didn't know that there was 13 bucks in their socks. Now,

1:14:24

once detectives couldn't find any missing persons

1:14:26

reports that fit the description of the body, they rightfully

1:14:29

pegged her as a murdered sex worker, which

1:14:31

as we know, this happened fairly

1:14:33

often, very often, extremely often in

1:14:35

the seventies and eighties. And eventually she was identified

1:14:38

by fingerprints and dental records, but

1:14:40

they were somewhat puzzled that she had money

1:14:43

because carrying money made a prostitution

1:14:45

charge much more likely should the cops

1:14:48

catch a woman in the act. But

1:14:50

this is a fun part. Some sex workers

1:14:53

had systems in place for getting around such

1:14:55

an inevitability. For example,

1:14:57

a Chicago legend named Mailbox

1:15:00

Marilyn, she would ingeniously

1:15:03

carry, That's my wife. She

1:15:05

would ingeniously carry self-addressed

1:15:07

stamped envelopes. And before

1:15:09

she performed her services, she'd get

1:15:12

paid, take the money,

1:15:14

put it in the envelope and drop

1:15:16

it in the mailbox and then go do the business.

1:15:18

Because if she didn't have any money on her

1:15:21

and she got caught in the act, she couldn't be

1:15:23

charged with prostitution. She'd

1:15:25

just get charged with public indecency. That's a picture

1:15:27

of her right there when she was panhandling on

1:15:29

this down the street. Let's take a look there.

1:15:31

Oh, wow. She looks happy. No

1:15:34

one's asking. No one's smiling can tell a lot, but not necessarily

1:15:36

always. You used to know her as Crazy Mary.

1:15:39

Crazy Mary. Oh, good for her.

1:15:41

Now, one thing we know about serial killers is that there's

1:15:43

usually a pretty extensive cooling off period

1:15:45

between the first and second murders. Sometimes it's

1:15:47

six months, sometimes a year, sometimes it's five years.

1:15:50

And that cooling off period often gets shorter as

1:15:52

the killer commits more murders. But

1:15:54

the speed in which the Ripper crew moved

1:15:56

on to victims two and three implies

1:15:59

that either a group dynamic shortens the

1:16:01

cooling off period or that Robin

1:16:03

Gagt had been murdering on his own long

1:16:06

before he brought Eddie Tommy and Andy

1:16:08

into the fold. Is it possible that you just start

1:16:10

Berserker after he's been torturing his

1:16:12

wife? Every once in a while. He's been living

1:16:14

a life of sexual depravity. True.

1:16:17

So if you have been and those dudes

1:16:19

they've been joining in. I think that's

1:16:21

a part of it. With Rosemary? Maybe

1:16:25

other women, other sex workers, all

1:16:27

of them kind of slowly, I think he was slowly,

1:16:30

in

1:16:30

my mind, he was raising

1:16:33

them up. He was training them. So

1:16:35

the three of them kind of came along with him, did

1:16:37

some stuff, fucked around. And it wasn't

1:16:39

until they started. That's the reason why. But they compartmentalized.

1:16:42

We're like, well, you know, we weren't murderers

1:16:44

until we started doing it. But they had been talking

1:16:47

about it and building it up and building it up.

1:16:49

That's my feeling.

1:16:51

See, just a month after killing Linda Sutton,

1:16:53

Eddie and Robin picked up another black

1:16:56

woman, a woman who's this to this day,

1:16:58

unidentified. She was a hitchhiker. They

1:17:00

gave her some pills. That was the new M.O. Was that

1:17:02

you give them pills first. They start to get

1:17:04

tired and disoriented

1:17:06

up top. Yeah. So you can't even do it three

1:17:08

on one. Natty. Yes. Yeah.

1:17:10

You know, you have to cheat. They gave her some pills.

1:17:12

They took her to a cemetery, pulled her out of the van

1:17:15

and beat her with a baseball bat. Eddie then

1:17:17

returned to the car, but Robin stayed behind. And

1:17:20

five minutes later, Robin returned

1:17:22

with one of the woman's severed breasts. And

1:17:24

this is that's when they start. That's when he starts

1:17:26

taking that's when he starts. So the other. Oh,

1:17:29

my God. And this is also I guess this is the main

1:17:31

reason why Chris

1:17:34

Evans actually said no to the movie. Is that right?

1:17:36

Because he said something about this because a lot of them

1:17:38

were like, we got to leave in the return

1:17:40

with the breast scene. Yeah. And he because

1:17:43

he was fighting for that. Chris Evans really wanted a

1:17:45

lot of the producers fought. Are they making a movie

1:17:47

on this? No, absolutely not. It's unfilmable.

1:17:50

Yeah. Well, about a month after that, Robin

1:17:52

was giving Eddie a ride home to pick up his paycheck

1:17:55

at Wenchill's Donut House, where Eddie

1:17:57

worked part time. What's with the bakery?

1:17:59

Can we leave the bakeries alone?

1:18:02

I mean, it was just good working for people

1:18:04

that need, you know, it's easy training. Killers

1:18:07

and sweets. I'm telling you, man. You know

1:18:09

what's interesting?

1:18:10

Winchell's Donut House.

1:18:12

There's none in Chicago anymore. But

1:18:14

here in LA,

1:18:15

there's 20. Yeah. There's 20. We have an ornamental

1:18:17

donut economy.

1:18:19

I have never seen

1:18:22

one eat a donut here. I eat donuts all

1:18:24

the fucking time. You do because you are wasting.

1:18:28

Everybody else does it because they're all constantly

1:18:30

afraid of sugar. And anything could possibly

1:18:33

change their body in any way, shape or form. I

1:18:35

like my yum yum donuts. Give

1:18:37

me my yum yum donuts. Okay, well,

1:18:40

that's very weird. I feel like it's

1:18:42

covered in blood. I see it's in the side of

1:18:44

the red van. I just feel like it's like

1:18:46

when the Ghostbusters get their first call. They're like, what? The

1:18:48

phone's ringing. Like,

1:18:49

all of those are just pipelines for fentanyl.

1:18:52

And you're the only person that ever

1:18:54

buys donuts from everyone. Donuts? They

1:18:56

got to go run out and get them. What is this donut, sir? Oh, God

1:18:58

damn it. Well, instead of picking up Eddie's paycheck

1:19:00

at Winchell's Donut House, the two

1:19:02

psychopaths spotted another black woman

1:19:05

hitchhiking. So Robin told Eddie to

1:19:07

climb back into the rear of the van. The

1:19:09

woman was then picked up unaware that there was

1:19:11

a guy in the back, and Robin drove her to

1:19:13

a forest preserve. When Robin stopped

1:19:16

the car in a suitably secluded area, he

1:19:18

tapped twice on the floor of the van,

1:19:19

signaling Eddie to exit

1:19:22

through the back to meet Robin up front with

1:19:24

a knife and a pair of handcuffs. It's

1:19:26

like a Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but they

1:19:28

hit the cane on the ground to get Leatherface. Yep.

1:19:31

This second hitchhiker, also never

1:19:33

identified, was handcuffed and led

1:19:35

into the woods by Robin alone. And

1:19:38

when he returned five minutes later, he was

1:19:40

again in possession of a severed breast. These

1:19:42

trophies, by the way, would be kept

1:19:44

in Robin's van on the floor

1:19:47

between the seats. Oh, God,

1:19:49

what is that smell? I mean, it's... Whoa. I

1:19:52

mean, to keep the van from reaching a Randy Kraft level

1:19:54

of gore, because remember Randy Kraft's car

1:19:57

was quite bloody. Right. bucket

1:20:00

and some dish soap around to clean up after

1:20:02

every murder. Presumably this was because Robin,

1:20:05

he was still using the van

1:20:07

every day. Yeah it was a business

1:20:09

expense. Jesus. Now

1:20:11

the Ripper crew went almost a year before their

1:20:14

next murder following that three month

1:20:16

three kill spree in 1981. But when they returned

1:20:19

in May of 1982 they killed at least 15 people in less

1:20:21

than six months.

1:20:23

Horrifying.

1:20:28

And a fair share of them had

1:20:30

nothing to do with the sex trade. And again

1:20:32

you really see that it's interesting

1:20:34

that there has been so little coverage.

1:20:37

As we were doing this episode we have the

1:20:39

book

1:20:40

but even the book as we said it's spotty at best

1:20:42

and we were putting together like whatever court transcripts

1:20:44

we could find all that kind of information putting

1:20:47

it all together and it's just crazy to think

1:20:49

like they really were terrifying

1:20:50

Chicago. Yeah!

1:20:53

A year and no one stopped no

1:20:55

one did anything. I had to argue against it

1:20:57

no one knew it was happening. I guess they didn't

1:20:59

talk about it. They didn't talk about it and we'll talk

1:21:02

in the next episode we'll begin the next episode as

1:21:04

to partly why yeah it wasn't talked

1:21:06

about the other story that was kind of taking all the oxygen

1:21:08

out of the room. Oh yeah what they said was. What

1:21:11

they said was yeah but there was another

1:21:13

big true crime story taking the oxygen out of the room. It

1:21:15

was the curse of the Cubs. Yeah but

1:21:18

they were really concerned with the Cubs. Yeah

1:21:20

that goat should have been let in.

1:21:22

But they were also you know they were hiding

1:21:24

the bodies fairly well most of the time.

1:21:26

Their fourth murder. There's four people working

1:21:28

on it. Yeah so it's not like it's one guy doing the

1:21:31

action and then you deal with the fallout after

1:21:33

you've done it and like it's like you got a team

1:21:35

of guys working to hide. It's

1:21:38

also four people at any moment one

1:21:40

of them could have been like this ain't right. Oh yeah

1:21:42

yeah. Yeah their fourth murder it wasn't

1:21:44

connected to the Ripper crew at all until

1:21:47

Eddie Spreitzer later confessed to everything

1:21:50

because the police had no body until Eddie

1:21:52

told them where it was. At this point this

1:21:54

fourth murder the

1:21:55

police thought it was a missing person's case they

1:21:57

had no this woman just

1:21:58

disappeared.

1:21:59

they just disappear. Now details are

1:22:02

scant, but from what we can piece together, Robin,

1:22:04

Eddie, and Tommy, and this was Tommy's first

1:22:06

time out, by the way. Oh, okay. They saw

1:22:09

21-year-old Lorraine Barrowski walking to

1:22:11

her job as a secretary at a local

1:22:13

RE-MAX real estate office at 8.30 a.m. in

1:22:16

the wealthy Chicago suburb of Elmhurst.

1:22:19

After following her into her office, where she was

1:22:21

the first to arrive that day, the Ripper crew

1:22:23

grabbed her and dragged her to the van, then

1:22:26

took her to a nearby motel, where a

1:22:28

gag was stuffed in her mouth and the beating

1:22:30

began. Now, while Eddie claimed

1:22:32

to have been nothing more than a voyeur up to

1:22:34

this point, Tommy said that both

1:22:36

Robin and Eddie raped

1:22:38

her before Eddie took out a three-foot

1:22:41

length of piano wire. It was

1:22:43

wrapped around Lorraine's breast and tightened

1:22:45

until the appendage was severed. Taking

1:22:48

the depravity even further, Eddie

1:22:50

and Robin then had sex with

1:22:53

the wound in Lorraine's chest.

1:22:55

Then Robin used his glass axe to

1:22:58

finish the job. The body was

1:23:00

then taken to a cemetery in Clarendon

1:23:02

Hills, where the Ripper crew hid the remains

1:23:05

in a mausoleum,

1:23:06

and the corpse would stay there until

1:23:08

Eddie told the police where to look. But

1:23:11

it was really scary. The

1:23:13

way she was yanked off the street was

1:23:15

also extremely- She was yanked

1:23:17

out of her office. Yeah, like she was already

1:23:20

technically like safe, right?

1:23:22

And they went and got her. This is where

1:23:25

the Ripper name comes from.

1:23:28

And it's again, it's why there's not one

1:23:30

of them again. Why? that

1:23:33

much is because every one of these

1:23:35

crimes involved

1:23:36

this form of mutilation. Yes,

1:23:39

and it gets even worse from here.

1:23:40

Now, on the day of the kidnapping and murder of Lorraine

1:23:43

Barowski, it was obvious to her boss when

1:23:45

he walked in that something terrible had happened in the

1:23:47

office. Lorraine's shoes were on the floor,

1:23:50

cosmetics were strewn about the office, her keys

1:23:52

were left behind, and

1:23:54

police questioned nearby business owners. And in fact, one store

1:23:56

owner in the same shopping plaza had a

1:23:59

vague memory of the police.

1:23:59

of a reddish orange van parked

1:24:02

in an area of the parking lot that was normally

1:24:04

empty. And that was the very first seat of

1:24:07

anybody knowing who these guys were. Now

1:24:09

that was a solid lead because it was indeed

1:24:11

the van that the Dorepa crew drove.

1:24:13

But instead of following that trail, the

1:24:16

cops listened to the guy who owned the nearby

1:24:18

liquor store because

1:24:19

he said that he had seen

1:24:22

Lorraine that morning

1:24:24

getting into a car.

1:24:26

He said, I saw Lorraine, she got

1:24:28

into a car, the car drove off,

1:24:30

but I can't remember

1:24:32

what kind of car it was.

1:24:34

All I know is that it's a car. Was

1:24:37

he sipping on his own supply? I don't know, but

1:24:39

she was literally taken out of her own shoes. She

1:24:41

didn't get into her car. Yeah, so the detective

1:24:43

on the case brought in another detective

1:24:45

who also happened to be a certified hypnotist.

1:24:48

Now that hour, wait, now what's going

1:24:50

on here? This guy, you know,

1:24:53

some guys have multi-skills,

1:24:55

you know? But it is strange, it's kind of

1:24:57

scary if you met a detective that was also a hypnotist.

1:25:00

It does feel like a television show. Yeah, it does.

1:25:02

It does, I just watched your Murder, She Wrote episode,

1:25:04

which I always catch the new episodes,

1:25:07

and the hypnotist did it by

1:25:09

hypnotizing somebody to kill.

1:25:11

That's cool. It was cool. I love

1:25:14

Murder, She Wrote. Oh, it's the best show ever. It's wonderful. I

1:25:16

prefer, I wish it was Murder, She Writes,

1:25:19

because then it'd be more present. It would be when to

1:25:21

know that she is not dead. Angela

1:25:24

Lansbury is still with us. Yeah, she is.

1:25:27

Yeah, I think she's recently dead. I

1:25:30

think she died last year. No, I

1:25:32

just watched her new show. Pretty sure she died last year.

1:25:34

I just watched her new show yesterday. She died on October

1:25:37

11th of, yeah, she died last year. She

1:25:39

was pulled apart by a bunch of golden retrievers. Oh,

1:25:41

no kidding. That's unbelievable.

1:25:44

I can't believe they put up corpse pictures. Mystery souls.

1:25:46

New show, I think Murder, She Wrote ended in 1994. Yeah,

1:25:49

but it's new to him. Well,

1:25:53

the hypnotist came in, and after supposedly

1:25:55

digging into the liquor store owner's subconscious.

1:25:58

Deep her, deep her. Oh my God.

1:25:59

out of here. The detective was told

1:26:02

that Lorraine Borowski had definitely

1:26:05

gotten into a sports

1:26:07

car. Either a Thunderbird

1:26:09

or a cougar. She was just so excited that she was like,

1:26:12

I've got to go. She kicked

1:26:14

her shoes off. She threw her stuff everywhere. I

1:26:16

gotta get in that car. She's rolling out to

1:26:18

America's great as diners, rabbits and

1:26:20

gays. No, I mean a Thunderbird is the

1:26:23

exact opposite of a red Dodge

1:26:25

van. Yeah, no, it's the opposite. See, this guy really fucked

1:26:27

it up. It didn't help. Yeah. Well, the investigation

1:26:29

went nowhere

1:26:29

because they didn't follow the correct. You gotta understand

1:26:32

the nice thing about this guy is that he

1:26:34

helped me quit smoking. That's

1:26:37

what I love. So

1:26:40

yes, he did derail an investigation that

1:26:42

could have saved multiple lives. Well, listen, he's

1:26:45

got my wife barking like a dog

1:26:47

every time it's her birthday. I

1:26:50

love this. Yeah, hypnotism, huh? But

1:26:52

even though the Ripper crew had taken a year

1:26:54

between murders three and four,

1:26:56

murders five through 20 would

1:27:01

occur in a short six month period

1:27:03

that was

1:27:04

barely covered by the press. Holy shit.

1:27:07

In addition, the crew themselves would begin

1:27:09

dabbling in rituals

1:27:12

and cannibalism. And that's where

1:27:14

we'll pick back up next time for the conclusion

1:27:16

to our series on the Chicago

1:27:18

Rippers. Hey man, oh

1:27:21

great.