0:10

Yeah, oh,

0:32

Hi, hello there, and welcome. This

0:34

is let's talk about myths, baby, and

0:37

I am that host of yours, the one who has

0:39

opinions with a capital oh.

0:42

Live. Technically my name

0:44

also starts with an oh. But here

0:46

we are with calling me live. I am so

0:49

thrilled to be continuing on with Antigony. It

0:51

really is such a fascinating play.

0:54

No, I think personally like a huge part of

0:56

what's making it so fascinating

0:58

for me is when I consider how

1:00

it has been treated in our

1:03

current world. It

1:05

just, I don't know, it's

1:07

really interesting, and it's probably too

1:09

early to dive too deep into what that

1:11

means. So again we will get there. But man,

1:14

does that part fascinate me.

1:17

But we're really not that far or not far

1:19

enough into the play for any of this, so I will not

1:21

take up any more time with an introduction. Let's

1:24

just remind you all where we were when we left

1:26

off last week. The two princes

1:28

or really kings of thebes Etocles

1:31

and Polis. They were killed

1:33

brother killed by brother in a war

1:35

waged by Polyniks due to

1:38

the actions of his brother. I

1:40

personally don't think either one of them is more

1:42

to blame than the other. It's all a tragic mess

1:44

that could have been avoided. What couldn't

1:47

be avoided is the tragedy that came

1:49

beforehand. Their father is also

1:51

their half brother because their father is Oedipus,

1:54

who inadvertently fell in love with and married

1:56

his own mother, Jocasta. It

1:58

was not ideal, and in Sophocles's

2:01

version, by this point, both their parents are

2:03

dead. The only two remaining members of

2:05

the thebe and Royal family are the two

2:07

sisters Antigany and is Mani.

2:11

Their uncle Creon has taken over

2:13

Thebes after their brothers deaths, and

2:16

he's decreed that because Polnick has

2:18

waged the war against his homeland

2:20

of Thebes, he is not allowed to

2:22

be buried. Instead, his

2:24

body is being intentionally left to

2:27

rot and be eaten by animals.

2:31

Meanwhile, Antigony broke Creon's

2:33

laws and buried her brother or

2:36

started to. She's trying

2:38

to give him a proper chance in the underworld.

2:41

She mourned him to another

2:43

thing that wasn't allowed. Creon

2:46

caught her and chose to also

2:48

blame is Mini, though Antigany

2:51

won't give her credit because a Mini

2:53

refused to help when Antigony asked her

2:55

in the first place. It's a whole mess

2:58

of drama, of familial

3:00

horror stories. But at this point

3:03

Antigony and her sister seem like they're

3:05

going to both be put to death for

3:08

this. Oh, and we

3:10

learned that Antigony was set to marry

3:12

Creon's own son, her

3:15

cousin, him On, and

3:17

that Friends and Nerds is

3:19

where we last left off in Sophocles's

3:21

play Antigony.

3:37

This is episode one.

3:40

Everything is eclipsed by the shape

3:42

of destiny. Sophocles is

3:44

Antigony Part three.

4:00

When the chorus finishes their song, once

4:03

Antigony and his minie have been led

4:05

off stage to await whatever fates

4:07

Creon has in store for them, we

4:10

meet Creon's son, him On. Hyman

4:13

was set to marry Antigony, but now

4:15

that his father is intending to well

4:17

have Antigony put to death for daring

4:20

to mourn and bury her own brother, Hymon's

4:23

without a bride. The chorus

4:25

introduces him, telling the audience that he's coming

4:27

to the stage to speak to his father and

4:29

quote does he come to mourn

4:32

the doom of his betrothed bride.

4:34

Antigony fiercely grieving

4:36

the cheating of his marriage bed. Creon's

4:41

clearly worried about his son's reaction, because

4:43

his first words are not to ask how his son

4:45

is feeling or even if he's angry, but

4:47

to presume that his status

4:49

as father outweighs whatever

4:52

he has done. He says, essentially,

4:55

you're not here to yell at me, are you. I'm your

4:57

father no matter what, and

5:00

him on, Yeah, he goes

5:02

with it. He says that he trusts his father's judgment,

5:05

that no marriage is worth more than his father's

5:07

guidance, and yeah, I just

5:10

threw up a little bit. Creon keeps

5:12

speaking, and honestly, it gets weirder and weirder

5:14

and grocer and grocer, just holding

5:16

onto the fact that Creon is the obvious bad guy

5:18

in this play, like that is the only

5:21

thing getting me through this. Because as

5:23

he goes on talking about how men

5:25

want that type of behavior and their sons,

5:28

sons who are willing to carry out retribution

5:30

on those that harm their fathers, and why

5:32

else would they even have sons

5:35

to begin with. Then

5:37

he moves on to his opinions on women. Yeah,

5:39

women, quote now, son,

5:41

never throw out your good sense just for

5:44

the pleasure of a woman, knowing that it

5:46

becomes a cold embrace an

5:48

evil wife for a bed mate at

5:50

home. And

5:53

he goes on and on,

5:55

and I have to quote more because I just have

5:58

to. Now he's

6:00

directly speaking about Antigony, the woman

6:02

who is set to marry him On, and we're

6:04

to presume that he had some kind of affection

6:07

for and who literally just

6:09

mourned her own dead brother about

6:12

her. Creon tells his son, quote

6:14

spit her out as an enemy.

6:16

Let that girl go to Hades to marry

6:19

someone. Creon

6:21

then devolves into speaking of how he

6:23

still intends to kill Antigony for what

6:25

she's done. He even makes reference

6:28

to Zeus quote let her sing

6:30

about her, Zeus, God of kindred

6:32

blood. He's pretty

6:34

openly falling apart here somehow,

6:36

both aware and unaware that he is

6:39

going to anger the gods with

6:41

this decision, that he's going

6:43

to anger Zeus himself, and that maybe he

6:45

already has This is

6:48

not going to go well

6:50

for Creon, but he just can't

6:53

see it. He's completely blinded by

6:55

the disobedience of Antigony, let

6:57

alone her openly emasculating

7:00

him

7:02

once more. Creon speaks of the importance

7:04

of the state and the person in charge,

7:07

essentially saying that he should be obeyed

7:09

in all things, no matter what they

7:11

might be, that without that, the state

7:14

would devolve into anarchy.

7:17

And again, I really didn't intend for this to

7:19

be quite as appropriate as it is. But now

7:21

I'm just seeing everything happening in Iran

7:24

through this lens, and I wish I'd made that

7:26

clear in the first two episodes. Actually, I wish I had

7:28

said something much earlier, but I'm

7:30

saying it now. I have such immense

7:33

respect and I mean, I'm just in

7:35

awe of the protests in Iran, the

7:37

people standing up to their tyrannical leadership,

7:40

the horrors and tragedies

7:42

that are being inflicted

7:45

upon them by their

7:47

leadership. It's it's

7:50

so many things I've just I don't know

7:52

how to put it into words. Um

7:56

anyway, Uh, this this episode

7:58

is is I think particularly important,

8:02

though nowhere near as important

8:04

as what's going on. What

8:07

they're doing is is obviously so so much

8:09

more powerful and important than antigny. But

8:11

there is a connection there that I am seeing

8:13

and was completely accidental with

8:17

this Creon basically turns full

8:20

blown tyrant. He can't

8:22

see the forest for the trees. He's just he's

8:25

gone. His speech to him

8:27

On about the entire mass ends

8:29

when he speaks about forces of

8:32

anarchy quote, but when those

8:34

forces succeed, it's obedience

8:36

that saves many lives. Thus

8:38

one must defend order and in no

8:40

way be less than a woman, better

8:43

felled by a man. If need be, then

8:46

called weaker than a woman.

8:53

And again Creons the bad guy. The message

8:55

here is he is bad and

8:57

Antigny is good. I

9:00

think it's obvious, but I'm gonna drill it home

9:03

with these words. Said him On speaks

9:05

to his father. He's very measured,

9:08

beginning with praise of his father in detailing

9:10

just how much he respects Creon

9:12

and his actions.

9:15

But he explains he's also

9:17

been looking out for his father and listening

9:19

to the words of the people. How the

9:21

broader people of thebes view Creon

9:24

and Antigny and what's going on between

9:26

them. In this case, he

9:28

explains, the people of the city

9:31

are sympathetic towards her and

9:33

her actions. I know you

9:35

don't want to hear it, Dad, Hyman basically

9:37

says, but the city is on her

9:40

side quote, but I

9:42

can hear things under darkness.

9:44

How the city weeps for this girl,

9:47

of all women, most undeserving

9:49

to perish, most evilly,

9:51

for the most noble deeds.

9:57

Sorry, all, I all, I can

10:00

I think now as I read this script,

10:03

is what's happening in Iran. If

10:08

you don't know what I'm talking about, you should and

10:10

you should look it up. I'm not going to be the

10:12

one to speak enough on it,

10:14

but ok,

10:17

okay, he does. He speaks

10:19

to Creon beautifully appealing

10:21

to his father and explaining the situation

10:24

without really making a judgment himself.

10:26

There's a lot of talk about just how

10:28

much he loves his father, how much he respects

10:31

him, how much he has his own interests

10:33

at heart. I'm doing this for you,

10:35

He's explaining. I'm trying to help

10:38

you by explaining how the city is viewing

10:40

the situation, how they're viewing you

10:42

As a result. He explains

10:44

that any man who thinks that his decisions alone

10:47

are perfect is missing something. Is

10:49

a blank slate. It takes

10:51

seeing things from the other

10:53

points of view, taking in other people's

10:56

opinions and thoughts on these matters. That

10:58

is what makes a good leader and good decisions.

11:01

He says, quote when a man in power

11:04

keeps taught his ships rigging and yields

11:06

not a bit. He overturns the ship

11:09

and navigates upside down. Him

11:13

On wants his father to listen to reason,

11:15

to take in the views of others

11:18

before it's too late. Creon

11:22

kind of listens, not as much

11:24

as we'd hope, but he's taking in Hyman's

11:27

words at least a little bit. They

11:29

turned to a back and forth, my

11:31

favorite word, a stick amythia, where

11:34

they debate the situation. Are

11:36

you saying I should respect a rebel? Creon

11:38

asks, and him On notes that he's not suggesting

11:40

they respect anyone evil, but

11:43

is not what she did evil? Creon

11:45

notes, not in the eyes of the people of

11:47

thebes. Him On tells him

11:51

Creon is having trouble. He's holding onto

11:53

his power so tightly that he

11:55

just he can't see anything else.

11:58

Am I not the one in power? Or he's

12:00

asking? And him On says, quote, the

12:03

public is not the same as one man,

12:06

which is just us A great line. They

12:09

discuss it doesn't a ruler own the

12:11

state, perhaps if it was entirely

12:13

deserted. Him On suggests they're

12:16

talking power. How absolute power can't

12:18

hold how people need a say in

12:20

what happens around them, what happens

12:23

in their homes and in their city. A

12:25

ruler can't rule without the will of

12:27

the people, can't rule while ignoring

12:30

everything that the people want

12:32

and need. Even if he feels

12:34

he can, it can't last. Eventually,

12:36

the people will stand up for themselves.

12:40

Better to listen to them now than face their

12:42

wrath when it's too late. Of

12:45

course, what Creon hears is

12:48

simply that his son is siding

12:50

with Antagony, or as Creon says,

12:52

quote he it seems

12:55

allies with the woman. The

13:16

use of the word woman here is

13:18

fascinating him. On is siding

13:20

with just the woman, not Antigony,

13:23

but the woman. And when Creon

13:25

accuses him on of this, he doesn't deny

13:27

it or confirm it. What he says is that, sure

13:30

he's siding with the woman if Creon

13:32

is the woman, because it's his father he's concerned

13:34

for, which I mean feels

13:36

like the wrong thing to say, given Creon is already

13:39

feeling emasculated by Antigny, but

13:41

it's a good way of expressing the point of

13:43

like, I'm worried for you, Dad.

13:46

Antigny is right either

13:49

way, Creon doesn't dwell on that line.

13:51

They go on to discuss justice and

13:53

whether or not what Creon is doing is

13:55

in fact justice. Him

13:58

On finally tells him bluntly that what

14:00

he's doing goes against the gods,

14:03

to which he's told he's foul

14:05

and quote inferior

14:07

to a woman. The

14:11

two keeps speaking, and it's really a great

14:14

back and forth, a great debate. I

14:16

now like him On quite a bit. He's really standing

14:19

up to Creon, and in a real important

14:21

way. He's trying to convince his father with

14:23

reason and rationale, and

14:25

when that isn't working, he shifts to being

14:28

more blunt. He tells Creon that if he

14:30

kills Antigony, he will also destroy

14:32

another. Essentially, him

14:34

On is threatening his own life if Creon

14:37

goes through with Antigony's execution,

14:40

and meanwhile, Creon sees this only

14:42

as a threat. They get angrier

14:44

and angrier the more Creon refuses

14:47

to listen to sense and reason, refuses

14:49

to see that he is explicitly angering the

14:51

gods with what he's doing, that it's going

14:53

to haunt him in one way or another. Finally,

14:56

Creon just calls him quote a

14:59

woman's lave, I

15:02

know I don't need to say it again, but really, this Creon

15:04

is an enormous ass, and at

15:06

this point he's just entirely in his own world,

15:09

not listening to or even hearing what's

15:11

being said to him. Him On tries once

15:13

more to get him to listen to what he is actually

15:16

trying to say, but Creon's

15:18

only response is to tell him On to bring in

15:20

take any out so that he can actually

15:22

watch her die, which,

15:26

yeah, good father, for sure, definitely

15:28

the dad that you want him

15:31

on though he refuses this because he's a

15:33

fucking human being, and he tells his father

15:35

that she won't be killed beside him

15:37

and that quote, you will never set eyes

15:39

on my face. Rave On live

15:42

with whatever kin are still

15:44

willing. I'm

15:47

on leaves, and Creon speaks to the chorus.

15:50

He clarifies when they ask that he's

15:52

decided he won't actually kill his manie. After

15:54

all, he agrees with them that she doesn't

15:56

deserve it. She didn't actually disobey

15:59

him, so small mercies,

16:01

I guess Jesus. And

16:04

then well, then Creon lays out the means

16:06

by which he will kill Antigny. And if

16:08

you thought that he was already off the

16:10

rails, just totally in another world of messy

16:12

horror. Just you wait. He

16:16

tells the chorus that his plan is

16:18

to take Antakeny away from people so

16:20

that she's hidden that no one will witness

16:23

this. Then he says he'll

16:25

hide her alive in a

16:28

cave. He'll leave her just enough

16:30

food to avoid being cursed, so

16:32

that thebes can avoid taking the blame for

16:35

what he's doing. Which

16:37

I mean, that is an awfully wild hope.

16:40

You've got their creon. Pretty sure

16:42

the gods will still be well aware of what

16:44

you're doing. But again, he

16:46

is not thinking rationally.

16:48

He's not really thinking at all. He

16:51

is just running on rage.

16:54

He finishes announcing how he's going

16:57

to have Antigny killed by saying quote

17:00

and they're praying to Hades, the

17:02

only god. She reveres, perhaps

17:05

she won't happen to die, or at least

17:07

she will learn that it is a waste of labor

17:09

to revere Hades. The

17:13

chorus sings of love and

17:16

passion. Quote arrows

17:18

invincible in battle, Passion,

17:20

who ravishes wealth? You

17:23

stay the night on the soft cheeks

17:25

of a girl, They

17:28

go on, It's beautiful, and

17:30

I wish I could quote it all. They sing of

17:32

how not one of the gods can escape

17:35

love and passion, So how would

17:37

humans be expected to No,

17:40

they say, whoever is inflicted

17:42

by these is mad. Their

17:44

minds become warped, and they're willing

17:47

to commit injustices, to

17:49

do whatever they feel will bring them

17:51

closer to those passions. And

17:54

it's not that this is just afflicting antigony.

17:57

This passion. Though the chorus

17:59

isn't specific who they're talking about it all, we

18:01

can see it in all the characters. They

18:03

all have their passions, and

18:06

they're all doing things they probably shouldn't

18:08

in service of those passions.

18:38

Now is the time for me to remind you

18:40

that in Greek tragedy there are no stage

18:43

directions, or rather, they didn't

18:45

record the stage directions that they

18:47

might have used, and thus we have no idea

18:50

what the ancient directions were. It

18:52

adds a level of fascination and frustration

18:54

that I imagine modern actors and directors develop

18:57

a real love hate relationship with, let alone

18:59

the translate years. So whenever you're

19:01

reading an ancient play and you see stage

19:03

directions, just know that those

19:05

have been invented by the translator,

19:08

invented based on their knowledge of the play,

19:10

along with so many other factors, but invented

19:12

all the same. Often we have

19:14

to determine who might have been on stage at

19:16

any given time through things like the

19:19

dialogue itself, whether there's any

19:21

indication of who might be hearing it or who

19:23

might not be. And then of course

19:25

there's the three actor rule for most

19:27

of Greek tragedy, and certainly in this time period

19:29

when we have the surviving plays, they

19:31

went by the so called three actor rule. I've

19:34

said it before, but to remind you, this is the

19:36

tradition that there were only ever three actors

19:38

on stage at any given time, along

19:40

with the chorus. That and really there were only

19:42

ever three actors in a play, meaning

19:45

when there are more characters, they're being

19:47

played by the same actors as others,

19:49

but with different costumes and masks.

19:51

Because also they were masks throughout, it

19:54

was easier to swap roles convincingly

19:56

and just the visual It also allows

19:58

us to theorize which actors might have

20:01

played which roles, who might

20:03

they have doubled for, And it allows us to better theorize

20:05

which characters might have been on stage at any

20:07

given time and to come up with then

20:09

theoretical stage directions based on that

20:13

it is the best. I remind

20:15

you all of this because it seems up for debate whether

20:17

or not Creon remains on stage with the

20:19

chorus. Most of the translations I'm

20:21

looking at suggests he's left the stage, leaving

20:24

the chorus to remain there alone. But the

20:26

main translation I'm using the Diane rayre

20:29

yes a woman huh. Interestingly,

20:31

she suggests that he might leave

20:34

or he might just sit on the throne

20:36

at the back of the stage, in which case

20:38

he's presumably witnessing everything

20:41

that's about to happen. Because

20:45

once the chorus has sung of love and

20:47

passion and how those emotions control

20:49

the person experiencing them, how

20:51

they overtake their decision making and convince

20:53

them to do things they wouldn't normally

20:56

do. Then

20:59

and Tiginy returns to the stage and

21:03

the chorus is emotional.

21:06

The leader of the chorus speaks when he sees

21:09

Antigony and is He's immediately explains

21:11

that he's close to tears at the sight of

21:13

her, that he can no longer hold back as

21:15

he sees Antigony heading towards the cave

21:18

where she will meet her fate a

21:20

fate they're explicitly tying to

21:23

marriage too, like she's going to both

21:25

marry him On and die there

21:28

simultaneously. Antigany

21:32

speaks to the chorus, describing what

21:34

she sees, how she's looking on

21:36

thebes for the last time, looking

21:39

at the sun for the last time, How

21:42

this case is special in that Hades

21:44

is guiding her to the shores of the river Akron,

21:47

the river of the underworld, even

21:50

while she's still alive. Quote

21:53

no share of wedding hymns, no

21:55

wedding song sung for me at

21:57

my marriage. Instead, I

22:00

will wed death. So

22:04

there it is. It isn't him On she's going to

22:06

marry while she dies, but death

22:09

itself. The

22:12

chorus tries to reassure her, reminding

22:14

her why she's going to die on

22:16

her terms for doing something she believed

22:19

in. In reply, Antagany

22:21

speaks of Niobe, the daughter of

22:23

Tantalus, who died high on a mountain

22:26

turned to stone which is now covered

22:29

with ivy quote just like

22:31

her, A god puts me to rest.

22:34

But the chorus reminds Antigony that Niobe

22:37

was born of a god, but that she is immortal

22:39

and was always doomed to die, though

22:42

it's nice to see godliness in oneself

22:44

after death, and take

22:46

any takes this as them mocking her, mocking

22:48

her pain and her death even while she's still

22:50

alive and heading to her doom. I'm

22:53

sort of torn on antagony here. I know ultimately

22:56

that she has a strong character, she has strong

22:58

morals, and she's sticking with them, even if means

23:00

her death. She's standing up to power

23:02

that might not be the decision everyone would make, or

23:05

even an objectively good decision, but she's doing

23:07

it herself and with full knowledge of the consequences.

23:09

Or rather she already has, but

23:12

she really does. Also play the martyr,

23:14

dramatizes her decision to the nth degree,

23:17

like, yes, her fate is horrific, but she's

23:19

already made clear that she's making this choice,

23:21

that she sees it coming. But

23:23

now that it's actually waiting for her, she wants

23:25

everyone around her to pity

23:28

her and treat her like she

23:30

is doing what she's doing. Quote

23:33

miserable and with no home

23:35

among the living or the dead. I

23:38

am not alive, nor have I

23:40

died. The

23:42

choruses reply to this line is so good

23:44

that so you're getting another quote pressing

23:47

on to the limits of daring child.

23:50

You crashed hard against the high

23:52

throne of justice. You are

23:54

paying for trouble from your father,

23:58

love that they still get in a jabuty typus, it always

24:00

comes back to Itipus, doesn't it, to

24:03

which Antigony herself starts speaking about

24:05

not only her father and the painful history

24:07

that's tied to him, but of his marriage

24:09

to her mother too, and well

24:11

to his own mother. She speaks

24:14

about their incestuous relationship, how

24:16

she was born straight into that misery,

24:19

how now she's returning to them

24:21

quote cursed and unwed.

24:25

Then well, then she addresses Oedipus

24:27

as her brother, which like he is in

24:29

addition to being her father. She

24:31

speaks of him as her brother, how

24:34

he had an ill fated marriage,

24:36

and how in his death he's

24:38

now killing her. They

24:41

go back and forth and like this for a little longer,

24:44

the chorus reminding Antigny that she made

24:46

this choice, that she chose to go against

24:48

those in power to explicitly deny

24:50

Creon's orders, knowing full well

24:53

what would happen to her, and

24:55

Antigny continues to speak about how it's

24:57

affecting her. There's no talk of Polynique

24:59

is now it's all about how she is

25:02

being treated, how she will have no

25:04

wedding, how there is going to be

25:06

no one lamenting her, no family

25:09

left, that no one will cry over

25:11

her, none of her family will publicly

25:14

grieve for her. She's

25:16

kind of leaving his meaning in the dust. And

25:20

then Creon returns

25:22

and well, the first thing he says is that no one

25:24

will ever stop crying, lamenting, speaking

25:27

of their fate, provided it buys

25:29

them time. Essentially,

25:32

he wants antagon these death sentence sped up.

25:34

That thinks she's trying to delay it by speaking

25:36

of her fate and what's in store for her, So

25:39

he asks that she'd be taken now

25:41

quickly and quote, when

25:44

you having closed her as I said in the

25:46

vaulted tomb, abandoned her

25:48

alone, deserted, whether she

25:50

wishes to die or to live in tombed

25:53

in such a shelter, because

25:56

remember, an taking these death sentence is

25:59

to be walled alive inside a cave

26:01

with just enough food for Creon to believe

26:04

he's allowed her to remain living if she cho

26:06

chooses, and for no one to be sure

26:08

when she actually dies. What

26:12

a kindness he's paying

26:14

her with this

26:16

announcement by Creon that she's to be

26:18

taken to her fate. Immediately,

26:22

Antigony begins a speech. Antigny

26:25

speaks of where she's going now, calling

26:27

it both an eternal crypt and

26:30

her bridal chamber. She says

26:32

she's now going towards her family,

26:34

since most of them are dead, though

26:36

she explicitly refers to herself as the

26:38

one most wronged in death.

26:41

The quote worst off

26:43

by far, to

26:46

which I say, do you remember your own

26:48

mother Antigony to

26:51

suggest that she has it the worst, rather than a woman

26:53

who married a man she loved, had four children

26:55

in a loving marriage, only to learn that she'd actually

26:57

married her son that she thought was long long

27:00

dead. Like Antigony, girl, get

27:02

some perspective, regardless,

27:06

she continues. She makes some interesting

27:08

claims about why she did what she did. She

27:10

did it because Polinique is her brother couldn't

27:13

be replaced since both their parents are

27:15

dead. She says that in other cases,

27:17

if some family member of hers could be

27:20

replaced, then she wouldn't

27:22

have risked everything to bury them.

27:25

It's odd, and maybe I'm missing what makes it reasonable

27:27

to say that or meaningful, but it certainly

27:30

is odd. She says that if her husband

27:32

had died, she could marry again. If

27:34

a child of hers had died, she could have

27:36

another, But she can never

27:39

have another brother. Then

27:42

she continues to lament her own position,

27:44

her own fate, how she'll die

27:47

never having been married and never having

27:49

had children. Instead, she's

27:52

been deserted by all her loved

27:54

ones. And again

27:57

I say, antigony, is Meani tried

27:59

with few, She tried so hard and

28:01

you turned her away. Then

28:06

she turns to what laws she's broken, what

28:08

divine laws? And there,

28:10

well, there, she's right. She did not break

28:12

a divine law, and surely the gods would side

28:14

with her if and when they're given the chance.

28:17

But it doesn't matter now. Creon is

28:19

the one who made the laws, and he's the one

28:21

who will enforce them. Before

28:24

she leaves the stage, being led to her

28:26

ultimate fate and taken, he says,

28:28

quote, behold, leaders

28:31

of Thebes, the only woman left

28:33

in the royal line. See

28:35

what I suffer from such men

28:37

because I acted with reverence.

28:42

I suppose here she's addressing is

28:44

Mini along with the leaders of Thebes, but

28:46

it seems like she could also be suggesting that

28:48

she's the last woman of

28:51

the line, and I don't know that she

28:53

doesn't name her sister at all here just irks

28:55

me. Is Mini just does

28:58

not seem to matter at all to and take me,

29:00

even when she's all that's left

29:02

and had offered to be with her sister until

29:04

the very end, and actually

29:07

referring to another translation, there's no reference

29:09

at all to a woman at all, just the

29:11

end of the royal line, making it even less

29:13

clear whether Antigony even has

29:15

is meaning in mind at all, or if she's so

29:18

worried about herself, just too worried

29:20

to even think that she has

29:22

a sister left, a sister

29:24

who tried her best. She

29:28

won't get another chance to think of her sister either,

29:31

because that is the

29:33

last line, and Tiggany

29:35

will speak in this play,

29:56

with Antigony having spoken her last

29:59

line, with her now gone from the stage

30:01

entirely, the chorus sings. They

30:04

sing of dana who

30:06

was also hidden away, like Antigony,

30:09

but by her own father. Danna

30:11

E, though, became the mother of Perseus through

30:13

well you remember, but the chorus describes

30:15

it as quote Zeus's shower

30:18

of golden seed. You're

30:21

welcome for that. Dana

30:23

E came out all right, though antigony

30:25

won't. That's destiny, they

30:27

say. They sing now

30:29

of others with tragic fates of confinement,

30:32

a man named Dreus, who was trapped

30:35

away by Dionysus for crimes against

30:37

the god. They sing of others characters

30:39

trapped away punished by the gods for their

30:41

actions, though all of them seem to

30:44

be much more punishable crimes,

30:46

or at least things the gods would typically punish

30:48

for, whereas antigon these crimes are

30:50

nothing like these. Still,

30:52

the point, it seems, is destiny

30:55

and the way it will always come for

30:57

you. There's

30:59

a a lyric I used to have tattooed on me. It's

31:02

fitting enough that I turned it into this episode's

31:04

title. Everything is eclipsed

31:06

by the shape of destiny. It's

31:09

by bright eyes. Leave it to me to find a reason to

31:11

quote the world's best indie emo bandon an episode,

31:13

but a deeply emo young woman. Once

31:16

the chorus is finished their song of

31:18

destiny, a new character arrives

31:21

on stage, and oh is it important

31:23

that he's walking on? Just as the chorus

31:26

has sung of destiny.

31:29

None other than Tyresus

31:31

joins the chorus now and creon too

31:34

he's brought in by a young boy who's guiding

31:36

him as Tyreseus is famously blind

31:39

and always has a nice attendant with him.

31:41

Tyreseus, if you don't remember, is a

31:43

prophet of Thebes and a man

31:46

who turns up in so so many

31:48

stories of Thebes that he is either absolutely

31:51

immortal or just so important

31:53

and useful in storytelling that he goes above

31:55

and beyond mere chronology.

31:58

Tyresius is in Bad Guy when

32:00

Cadmus is still alive and consulting,

32:02

and then he appears in these Sophocles Is

32:05

Theban plays many generations

32:07

later, still there and

32:09

ready to tell the Theban leaders when

32:11

they're absolutely fucking

32:14

things up. Yes,

32:18

that is the rule. Tyreseus plays in Back Eye and

32:20

Itipis Tyrannos, and now in

32:23

Antigony. He's

32:25

also the guy who transformed into a woman after

32:27

he saw two snakes fucking and then had to tell zusan

32:29

Harra who enjoyed sex more. But that's neither

32:31

here nor there. After

32:34

some polite greetings between Tyreseus

32:36

and Creon reminders of how Creon

32:39

has listened to Tyreseus before, how

32:41

he respects the old man. The Seer

32:43

gets right to the point. Quote, consider

32:46

that now you walk again on the razor

32:49

edge of fortune. Basically

32:52

you're doing the absolute wrong thing. Creon

32:56

whoops, surprise, surprise.

32:58

Though Creon somehow doesn't have any idea

33:00

what Tyreseus could possibly be referring to.

33:03

What is it, he asks, adding that he's

33:05

concerned about Tyresus's words. So

33:09

Tyresus explains to Creon how

33:11

he's come to find himself there, warning

33:14

Creon against his actions, how

33:16

he saw what was going on, and how he knows what

33:18

needs to be done. He tells Creon

33:20

that he was doing his usual seer style

33:22

actions his augury mainly, and

33:24

how the birds were frantic,

33:27

unfamiliar, crying out, how they

33:30

were in a wild and violent frenzy,

33:32

tearing each other apart. Seeing

33:35

this and worrying immediately, Tyreseus

33:37

tried to learn more. To appease the gods.

33:40

He burned a fire, trying to sacrifice

33:42

to the gods, but it would barely light, let

33:44

alone burn the offerings. As the fire is

33:46

meant to the meat specific

33:48

pieces for the gods, meant to burn and send

33:50

the sacrificial smoke up to Olympus.

33:52

They only sizzled and oozed. In

33:56

essence, everything was going wrong.

33:58

The gods were and are not

34:01

happy with Thebes.

34:05

Tyreseius goes on to explain that the reason

34:08

for this, the reason that the gods are refusing to

34:10

accept sacrificial offerings from him, from

34:12

anyone in Thebes, actually is

34:14

that there too,

34:16

full from gorging on what's

34:19

been left of poor Polikus.

34:22

Quote, birds and dogs

34:25

fill with meat from the ill fated

34:27

fallen son of Oedipus, and

34:29

so the gods no longer accept

34:31

sacrificial prayers or burnt offerings

34:34

from us. No birds shriek

34:36

forth clear signs after gorging

34:38

on the rich blood of a slain

34:40

man. He

34:44

is getting straight to the point, Creon,

34:46

this is because you've refused burial

34:48

to a dead man. And not only that, because

34:51

frankly, that's enough to funk with the gods.

34:53

But that man was a prince of Thebes.

34:56

Regardless of what he did, he was a fucking

34:59

prince of Thebes. Tyrasius

35:04

isn't all harsh, though, he makes clear to Creon,

35:06

Look, people make mistakes.

35:09

That's humanity. It's very common, it's

35:11

okay. But humans can also fix

35:13

those mistakes and if they don't, even

35:16

when they know that there's reason too,

35:19

that's when those mistakes aren't

35:21

quite so forgivable

35:26

and Creon. While Creon doesn't

35:29

take this well, he

35:31

tells Tyrasus that people are attacking

35:34

him from every direction for

35:36

this decision, but he doesn't

35:38

suggest it's a bad one. He

35:40

even accuses Traseus of taking bribes,

35:43

of just wanting to get money, and that's

35:45

why he's coming to Creon with this, which

35:47

I mean, who would be paying Tyreseus

35:50

for this? Like? How would he be making money off of

35:52

this? Regardless, Creon

35:54

is just a fucking mess right now and he can't even

35:56

remotely consider that he might be in the

35:58

wrong. He even so far as to

36:00

say that he won't bury polyniks

36:03

body even if Zeus's own eagles

36:06

want to eat from the corpse or bring

36:08

the body all the way to Zeus himself.

36:11

Not even Zeus's wrath is enough to

36:13

convince Creon to bury Polynikis.

36:16

And that is how you know

36:18

this man is just too

36:21

far gone. There is

36:23

no coming back from this, oh,

36:41

Nerds, Nerds, Nerds, things are

36:43

not looking good for Creon or in Tigony.

36:45

I guess this is a Greek tragedy after

36:48

all, and not one written by eriputies.

36:51

Well, obviously this is going to be a four episode series.

36:53

I keep thinking I can still do plays in three episodes,

36:55

but then I get too obsessed with all the details because they're

36:58

just so good and interesting, and the lines are too good and interesting,

37:00

and then I want to talk about all the historical context and

37:02

the way these things are performed, and then I want to look at the

37:04

social context, both ancient and modern. And anyway,

37:07

obviously there's gonna be another episode of Antigny next

37:09

week that and that's when I will finally

37:12

dive into my thoughts on her as

37:14

a character and what she has come to symbolize,

37:16

because there's just so much there.

37:19

What an interesting play, one that, in my opinion,

37:22

is almost more interesting because of how

37:24

it's understood now, how it's performed and viewed,

37:26

and by whom, because from

37:28

what I've seen in my realm of this world, there is an awful

37:31

lot of men who like to pat themselves on the back for their

37:33

respective women just because they love Antigny,

37:35

and I just, yeah, there's

37:37

a lot to unpack their a taste.

37:40

Creon has about double the lines

37:42

that antigony has in this play double

37:47

anyway. Yeah, this is quite the play, and a specific

37:49

type of person who fawns over it is the thing I'm most

37:51

obsessed with. But we will get there next

37:53

week. For now,

37:56

the script is already almost six thousand words

37:58

and counting, so we must end it. Thank

38:01

you so much for listening. I am just so

38:03

thrilled to get to cover these plays. I have

38:05

learned from a few of you how much you love the play

38:07

episodes specifically, and I just want to

38:09

say that that means a lot to me. I

38:12

really really love covering them, and they're the majority

38:14

of the ancient sources that I have yet to cover on

38:16

this podcast, so they're going to continue

38:18

on. I realized they're long and quite different

38:20

from the more traditional myths, so I do try to space them

38:23

out. But the more we get through and

38:25

the more you all like them, the more

38:27

ancient sources we still have to work

38:29

with that I haven't already covered.

38:31

So just I don't know. If you love these play episodes,

38:34

please feel free to tell me about it and or shout

38:36

about it on social media. As I'm writing this,

38:38

Twitter seems to be spiraling, and who knows if it will even

38:40

exist in the same form by the time this episode

38:42

comes out, or just a racist cesspool.

38:45

But if it's still around, tell me they're okay.

38:48

If not, I'm on Instagram and TikTok to you at Miss

38:50

Baby. But Twitter is where I found my people, where

38:52

I built a whole network of academics and met basically

38:54

everyone who's ever been a guest on this show. And

38:58

I don't quite know how I'm going to feel about

39:00

it possibly being gone. I don't know

39:02

what I will do for guests regardless.

39:05

This is about Antigny. What a fascinating

39:07

character. Fucking love Greek tragedy. Even plays

39:09

that aren't by Euripides they have value too.

39:12

Let's leave you, as always with the reading

39:14

of your five star reviews. Huge

39:17

thank you to everyone who leaves these reviews. They

39:19

mean the world to me. I read everyone, and

39:21

I love you all for leaving them. This one

39:23

is from Canada, a user named darcyan

39:26

thirteen. Fantastic,

39:28

super intriguing and great storytelling even

39:31

by a woman. Gasp. Seriously

39:34

love it. Keep killing it you, rock star. Thank

39:37

you. That was simple into the point, a little bit of sarcasm.

39:40

Perfect review. Let's talk go Miss

39:42

Baby. Has written and produced by me Live Albert

39:44

Michaelis Smith is the Hermes to my Olympians and

39:46

handled so many podcasts related things. God,

39:49

she's just so so much. She's the absolute best. Stephanie

39:51

fully works to transcribe the podcast for YouTube captions

39:54

and accessibility. The podcast

39:56

is hosted and monetized by a cast. Help

39:58

me continue bringing you the world of Greek pthology in

40:00

the Ancient Mediterranean. Becoming a patron

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will get bonus episodes and more.

40:05

Visit patreon dot com slash myths Baby,

40:07

or click the link in this episode's description. You're

40:11

all the best. Thank you so much for being here and for listening.

40:13

I am living. I love this

40:16

shit.