0:25

And this was due not so much to scarcity

0:28

of men as of money. Difficulty

0:30

of substence made the invaders reduce

0:32

the number of the army to a point at which it

0:34

might live on the country during the prosecution

0:37

of the war. Even after the victory

0:39

they obtained on their arrival, and a

0:42

victory there must have been, or the fortification

0:44

of the naval camp could never have been built,

0:46

there is no indication of their whole force

0:49

having been employed. On the contrary,

0:51

they seem to have turned to cultivation of

0:53

the Chersonese and to piracy

0:56

from want of supplies. This was what

0:58

really enabled the Trojans to keep

1:01

the field for then ten years against

1:03

them, the dispersion of the enemy making

1:05

them always a match for the detachment

1:08

left behind. In short, if

1:10

they had stuck to the siege, the capture

1:12

of Troy would have cost them less

1:15

time and less trouble. But as

1:17

want of money proved the weakness of

1:19

earlier expeditions, so from

1:21

the same cause. Even the one in question,

1:24

more famous than its predecessors, may

1:26

be pronounced on the evidence of what it accomplished,

1:29

to have been inferior to its renown

1:32

and to the current opinion about it.

1:34

Formed under the tuition of the poets.

2:04

Hi, Hello there, welcome, This

2:06

is let's talk about MIT's baby.

2:08

You're rather let's talk about myths and how they

2:10

interact with history. But

2:13

that's a little wordy. I'm your host,

2:15

live here with another episode diving

2:17

into the Bronze Age the Mediterranean

2:20

and leading up to its momentous

2:22

collapse. We've already looked at

2:24

the Bronze Age people of Greece, the Minoans

2:27

based on Creed, and the Myceneans on the mainland

2:30

and later on the islands, the broader

2:32

Aegean, if you will, But what about

2:34

the rest of the Bronze Age med Well,

2:37

today we're going to try our best to touch

2:39

on the other important cultures of that time, how

2:42

they interacted with the Greeks, and what marks

2:45

were left behind in those Homeric

2:47

epics that I so love to talk about. Like

2:50

just now, at the beginning, that quote I read up top

2:53

once again was from Thucydides, and

2:55

again just this really perhaps

2:57

dry sounding, but really interesting

3:00

look at how an ancient

3:02

Athenian historian so

3:05

many centuries later tried

3:07

to reason lee parse

3:09

out how the Trojan War

3:12

might have happened. This

3:28

is episode two fifty eight, when

3:30

history becomes mythology. Bronze

3:33

Age Greece in the wider Mediterranean.

3:50

We've talked about the people that we identify with

3:52

the Greeks during the Bronze Age again, the Minoans

3:54

and the Myceneans, and how they operated

3:57

within their own realms, and so far, you

3:59

know, we've emphasized just how connected

4:01

they were with the wider Mediterranean, but we

4:03

need to look at what that wider Mediterranean

4:06

was. So far we've only really looked

4:09

at how the Minoans and the Myceneans

4:11

interacted with each other. And

4:13

that's where today comes in. The

4:15

Bronze Age Agean, that is, the

4:18

Bronze Age Greeks we will refer to as the Aegean

4:20

was really only a small piece

4:23

of the wider Bronze Age Mediterranean

4:26

when it comes to looking at the med as a whole.

4:28

At this time, the impact of the people

4:30

in the Aegean was like, really quite

4:33

small compared to the other peoples

4:35

and cultures that existed at this time. The Aegean

4:37

was like the backwater cousins. We

4:39

love them. They did amazing cool stuff and are objectively

4:42

the only reason I have a career. But when

4:44

compared to the rest of the Mediterranean and the Near

4:46

East during this time period, oh,

4:49

they are vastly overshadowed.

4:52

The Bronze ag Gan really grew up

4:54

underneath these other areas and

4:56

were in contact with them in various ways

4:59

throughout the entire period, but they

5:01

never became a big player. They

5:03

were the younger siblings who came along

5:06

when the rest were already grown, just

5:08

trying to catch up to the big kids around

5:11

them. It's

5:13

important to remember this, you know, when we

5:15

consider how these cultures interacted

5:17

and influenced each other, and how

5:20

these connections influenced later myths.

5:22

You know, they did not exist in isolation. They

5:24

were one piece of the wider puzzle of the time,

5:26

and their place in it, while very

5:29

important, was small compared

5:31

to what the other major players were doing. Now,

5:33

we do not have time to go into any depths

5:36

on what the other cultures were at this time

5:38

and what they were doing, but I will touch on them, oh

5:40

so briefly to give you an overview

5:42

of the various trade conflicts

5:45

and contacts that are happening. We've

5:47

already looked at the Aegean players, the Monoans,

5:50

and the Mycenians. But let's look at who

5:52

was doing what in the wider region,

5:54

who were the big players, because the Greeks

5:56

were not them. The

5:59

Hittite Empire thrived during the Bronze

6:01

Age in Anatolia, Turkey. The

6:03

Egyptians were of course setting themselves

6:05

up to be famous for millennia,

6:08

were in the levant in Palestine and Lebanon.

6:11

In fact, there's a certain city that's about five thousand

6:13

years old. It appears on countless maps

6:16

of the Bronze Age and its collapse, even

6:18

if it's only taken six months to erase that history.

6:21

With Western Palms. The

6:23

Cypriots were obviously rocking it on

6:25

Cyprus. There's an aphrodite joke

6:27

in therefore, anyone who gets it. The

6:29

Metani people ruled over much of what's

6:31

now Iraq, Turkey, Syria,

6:34

and then the other most famous the

6:36

Assyrians, the Babylonians

6:39

collectively the Mesopotamians of

6:41

ancient Iraq. They weren't actually

6:43

on the Mediterranean, but they do count

6:46

all the same. All

6:49

these people and empires were vastly

6:51

connected to each other through trade and

6:53

elite networks, conflicts between

6:55

one another, and of course through the people who

6:57

were moving around the med for all the various

6:59

reasons. Just like people do today, we

7:02

will spend more time with some ancient

7:04

groups than others, but I will be touching on each

7:07

one briefly, and we're going to

7:09

take a special interest in the Hittites because

7:11

of a little mythical but historically inspired

7:13

thing called the Trojan War. It's

7:17

important to remember, though, when going through each

7:19

one of these ancient groups, that all of

7:21

these people were coexisting and interacting

7:23

amongst each other in significantly

7:25

more complicated ways that I could possibly

7:27

communicate to you in one episode. I

7:30

have to be brief in order to relay information,

7:32

but the reality of the time is that these cultures

7:34

were vast and complicated

7:37

and deserve so much more time to

7:39

really appreciate all that was

7:41

happening. We are talking centuries,

7:44

sometimes millennia worth of history

7:46

squished into one podcast episode.

7:49

This won't be thorough, but I hope it will give you just a little

7:52

idea of what was happening and maybe inspire

7:54

you to learn more on your own. Gods,

7:57

No, there's more to learn. Of

8:00

course, not every one of these people had the same

8:02

level of ties with the people of the Aegean.

8:05

Given the nature of trade. During this time, a Gean

8:07

wares were being spread vastly through

8:09

the ancient Mediterranean and Near East because

8:12

of these networks, but the people themselves

8:14

weren't necessarily making it that far. The

8:16

people of ancient Iraq and Iran are

8:19

not particularly closely connected to

8:21

the Aegean as much as some of the

8:23

others are not unconnected,

8:25

but they are not close. The

8:41

people who were living in the region of ancient Iraq

8:43

and some of Iran were broadly the

8:45

Assyrians, Babylonians, and

8:47

a bit northern into the eastern part

8:50

of Turkey the Mitani. This

8:52

is the area where people like n Hedwana

8:55

and Hamarabi come from. The Epic

8:57

of Gilgamesh too, but at vastly

9:00

different time periods. Because the span

9:02

of ancient history in Iraq is

9:06

unbelievable. It

9:09

is a place with thousands

9:11

and thousands and thousands of years of

9:13

history. All three of

9:15

these kingdoms existed for just these vast

9:17

spans of time and played off each other in

9:19

trade, conflict, and connection throughout

9:21

this whole time. They are like many thousands

9:24

of years older than the Mycenians

9:26

even the Minoans, and there are

9:29

more too that make up this group

9:31

that we call the Mesopotamians, all from

9:33

ancient Iraq, but we are remaining

9:35

brief. Their borders

9:37

also vastly changed and altered throughout

9:40

history, and their connections with the other kingdoms

9:42

you know, we're also present. Mittani and

9:45

Egypt often had conflicts with each

9:47

other, but Egypt was also connected

9:49

with various Babylonian and Assyrian

9:51

kings that we can see from these

9:53

letters called the Amarna Letters, which

9:56

we will return to, but for now, there

9:58

were things happening in this region that were

10:00

just so complicated and so vast

10:03

that frankly, we cannot dive into anything,

10:05

especially because it does not connect with

10:07

the aegeanfo As much as I would love to cover

10:10

the whole of this ancient history, the

10:13

important thing is that this was a highly

10:15

developed area and its connections mainly

10:17

come from the abundance of tin in

10:19

the region. That's right, an ever important

10:22

metal in the making of bronze, which is

10:24

a thing I just learned because MICHAELA wrote it

10:26

into a script. Thank you, Michaela. Just

10:28

as I am not a farmer, I am also not a metal

10:30

worker. The

10:33

Canonites and the Cypriots are similarly

10:36

not our biggest focus, yet important

10:38

to understand the level of complexity

10:40

and connection during this time. The

10:42

Canonites are they're sort of a general term we

10:44

use to describe many different peoples, kind of like

10:47

Mesopotamians. Essentially, it's

10:49

many different people that were living in the Southern

10:51

Levant during the Bronze Age.

10:54

There were various kingdom states that

10:56

were connected to others in the area through

10:58

vassal relationships, mainly

11:00

with Egypt because it was the next one over. The

11:03

Cypriots, on the other hand, were the people living

11:06

on and from the island of Cyprus off

11:08

the Lava. Cypress was an extremely

11:10

important island, not only for its strategic

11:13

position, but also for the wealth of copper

11:15

that was found on the island.

11:18

Cyprus is so well known for its

11:20

copper throat history that the word copper

11:23

comes from Cypress, specifically

11:27

es Cyprium in Latin or

11:30

the metal of Cyprus. And

11:33

guess what you need for bronze, that's right, copper.

11:36

So now we know where the two

11:38

major pieces of the bronze puzzle were found,

11:41

and I know what you need to make

11:43

bronze. Tin was found

11:46

primarily in this region of Asian Iraq

11:48

and Iran, and then copper from Cyprus,

11:51

and not only was Cyprus famous for its copper,

11:53

but it also had a vast amount of timber.

11:55

We're using the word vast a lot today. It's

11:58

just very relevant. Timber

12:00

in ancient history was hugely important

12:02

like it is today, especially considering

12:04

they had to make their ships somehow, so

12:07

Cypress in credit important for resources

12:10

like copper and timber, as well as for trade

12:13

within the Mediterranean. You know, it's this big

12:15

island kind of centrally in the

12:17

southeast. Lots happening

12:19

there, similar to crete in that way, just

12:22

in a very different spot, and

12:25

the Cypriots really took their role as traders

12:27

to heart. There's evidence for Cypriots

12:29

moving and existing all throughout the Mediterranean

12:32

and the Near East. In fact, it's very

12:34

likely that there was a group of Cypriots living

12:36

in turns on the Peloponnesian Peninsula

12:39

of Greece during the late thirteenth

12:41

century, which is just alongside

12:43

the Mycenians and goes to show just the extent

12:45

of their reach in these trade networks. Considering

12:49

that the majority of copper that was used

12:51

was Cypriot in origin, this makes

12:53

sense as you would expect the people who originated

12:55

from that island to take an interest in bringing

12:58

these wears around the Mediterranean, and

13:00

Cypriot wears are found pretty much everywhere

13:03

in the Bronze Age they got around.

13:05

Further connections with the Aegean appears in the

13:07

use of Kipro Minoan script,

13:10

this writing system that has yet to

13:12

been deciphered, but the syllabarry that's

13:14

used is so similar to linear

13:16

a that this connection between

13:20

Cyprus and Minoan crete is

13:22

made. And this script appears

13:24

not only on Cyprus, but is also found in

13:26

various coastal sites around the Mediterranean.

13:29

And for even further Aegean connections,

13:32

we have the vast amount of

13:34

mysony and pottery found on the

13:36

island. Now, granted, mycening and pottery

13:38

is found all over the place along the Mediterranean.

13:41

As you heard last week, it made it all the way to Portugal,

13:44

and not because you know, it was particularly astounding

13:46

or anything. I mean, I'm sure it's someone's favorite,

13:49

but most likely because the goods found

13:51

within it were what was more highly

13:54

valued olive, oil, wine,

13:56

perfumes, et cetera. But

13:58

because those things were

14:01

so sowed after then the pottery

14:03

remains as far as those items

14:06

traveled it's just what

14:08

joy. Archaeology is a joy,

14:10

and so you know, just the existence of that pottery

14:13

shows us the extent of trading

14:15

that the Mycenians and the Cypriots

14:17

were collectively involved with. And

14:48

now, with that brief look at some of the other

14:50

major players in the Mediterranean

14:52

at this time, we are left with the two

14:55

that we are going to focus on the most,

14:57

the Hittites and the Egyptians.

15:00

I'm sure everyone is at least somewhat

15:03

familiar with the Egyptians and the extent

15:05

of their power throughout not only

15:07

the Bronze Age, but into the Iron Age

15:09

and beyond. I mean, they're

15:11

the ancient Egyptians. They are in old

15:14

power, one whose history is so long that

15:16

it's almost incomprehensible, and there's no

15:18

way that we can cover even like a tiny bit

15:20

of how deep it goes. But we also

15:22

can't ignore them because they were a major player,

15:25

and because, I mean, I

15:27

have seen the cinematic artistry

15:30

that is nineteen ninety nine's The Mummy.

15:33

I know what happens when you forget your manners

15:35

with the ancient Egyptians, and

15:37

I will not be falling for that trap. So

15:40

back in the Iron Age was really

15:43

the height of Egyptian culture as

15:45

we know it. You know, it's not the Egypt

15:47

of Cleopatra and the Potolemies.

15:49

It is not the Egypt that was taken

15:51

over by Alexander or the

15:54

one that was fighting Rome. This

15:56

is long, long, long before

15:59

any of that, a millennia before

16:01

any of that. This Egypt

16:03

was an empire that was so powerful

16:05

they were able to flip the rules of elite

16:07

relations to make it most

16:10

advantageous to themselves and

16:13

something that no one else could

16:15

push up against.

16:17

In the elite circles of the Bronze Age, royal

16:19

marriages between kingdoms were common

16:22

to ensure relations between these leading powers.

16:25

All these kingdoms would marry their daughters

16:27

to each other to secure relationships through

16:29

those marriages. But Egypt,

16:32

well, Egypt wouldn't marry their daughters out

16:34

to any other kingdom. This way, there would

16:36

be no possible heirs born in

16:38

neighboring kingdoms who could then vie

16:40

for a pharonic position. They

16:42

instead chose to only allow

16:45

others to marry into the

16:47

Egyptian royal family because

16:49

they got to make the rules, and this

16:52

seemed to be a pretty steadfast rule

16:54

during the Bronze Age, and it worked for them. There

16:57

are instances, though, where things get a little

16:59

more lucy goosey when times aren't going

17:01

so well. But broadly, I mean,

17:04

the Egyptians were the Egyptians. But what makes

17:06

Egypt such an important and key place

17:09

for our purposes? I mean, what

17:11

doesn't The Nile was incredibly fertile

17:13

and made growing certain key grain

17:15

crops super easy. Not only

17:18

did they have all of this wonderful grain that

17:20

feeds the masses, but they also had

17:22

access to many different precious

17:24

metals like gold. You

17:26

gotta love gold. People love gold. They

17:28

do a lot for gold, and honestly,

17:30

gold can do a lot for them from an

17:32

economical standpoint. At the very

17:35

least gold important.

17:37

It has always been the case, super

17:39

shiny, thus super

17:42

important. I've never totally understood

17:44

it. So Egypt

17:46

was just one of those places that was

17:48

very productive and capable of sustaining

17:51

quite the empire, and it did exactly

17:53

that. They also, though, and

17:55

this is what's most important for us, they

17:58

enjoyed recording things.

18:00

They liked it quite a bit, and so we

18:02

have lots of textual

18:04

evidence for the goings on. We

18:07

have the Egyptians to think for so much

18:09

knowledge of the wider Bronze Age Mediterranean

18:12

simply because they like had a thing for journaling.

18:15

You know what we don't find though, in these

18:18

deep and extensive records that the Egyptians

18:20

left behind, and that tell

18:22

us so much about these most

18:24

ancient cultures that didn't leave us

18:26

written record. You know what, we don't find

18:29

in any of that any tiny

18:31

hint that Atlantis was ever anything outside

18:33

of Plato's imagination, That's

18:35

right. What we do have are

18:38

things like the Aegean list from Amenhotep's

18:40

the Thirds Mortuary Temple, which

18:42

gives us a list of places that were known to

18:45

the Egyptians of the early fourteenth

18:47

century key dates. Here. These

18:49

statutes didn't just have the Aegean

18:52

place names, but pretty much everywhere

18:54

that was known to the Egyptians at the time,

18:56

which is amazing. But we are

18:58

concerned with the Aegean and its connections

19:00

largely so when places like

19:03

Mikina, Kunosos, and

19:05

Kithera, among others, appear

19:08

on these lists, we get excited

19:10

because not only are we seeing Aegean sites

19:13

on this Bronze Age Egyptian list,

19:15

but we're also seeing names for the Minoans

19:18

and the Mysinians from that time.

19:21

We saw one of these names in the Minoan episode

19:24

keft You, but we also get one

19:26

that heads the list of Mysinean sites

19:29

Tanagas. It's not

19:31

just names, but people too that appear

19:33

in Egypt. Evidence that people

19:35

we think are the Minoans were

19:38

depicted in Egyptian art, and

19:40

even the Minoan style art

19:42

is found in Egypt. The

19:45

Mycenians are not so clearly represented in Egypt,

19:47

but we know that they were known, not

19:50

least from the above mentioned Aegean

19:52

list, which also makes sense

19:54

because Crete was just so much closer

19:57

to Egypt. And

19:59

then we have the wonderful Amarna

20:02

letters that I mentioned up earlier. This

20:04

is less to do with the Aegean but really

20:07

demonstrates the kinds of kna between

20:09

elites during the Bronze Age and how

20:12

they related to each other. These

20:14

tablets were found in the Egyptian city

20:16

of Amarna, where Aknaton, who

20:18

gained power after his father a Menhotep

20:20

the third died, He moved the capital

20:22

there. These letters were found in a records

20:25

room, I mean, that's what we call it, because

20:27

we found them there. Who knows, but

20:29

they were written in Akkadian, which appears to be

20:31

the common tongue for a sort of international

20:33

correspondence between rulers, and then

20:35

gives us a host of information on

20:38

how the elites related and talked

20:40

to each other. And as we

20:42

will see and have already been

20:45

hinted at, the collapse of the Bronze

20:47

Age is a collapse of the elite

20:49

power structure. And

20:52

so through these letters we get

20:54

a sense of how the elites worked with

20:56

one another. Lots of it is set

20:58

in a way that establishes them as both

21:01

family and equals, like power

21:04

is communicated through familial relationships,

21:08

where one person might refer

21:10

to another king as father to

21:12

show that they're not of equal standing.

21:15

Like are these people actually related to each other in

21:17

any manner? Probably not, but there is

21:19

this like familial shadow cast

21:21

on their relationships that like binds

21:24

all these elites of the cultures of the

21:26

time like together. It's really

21:28

it's really interesting. But

21:31

the Aegean doesn't show up in these letters, and

21:33

so from this we can kind of emphasize

21:36

and understand that the Aegean and the elites

21:38

of that region were just not

21:41

at the same social standings

21:43

that the other elites were. You

21:46

know, they were not elites from Egypt, they

21:48

were not elites from Babylon. They

21:51

were a little closer to peasants by

21:53

comparison. Elite for Mycenae,

21:55

yes, not for Egyptian.

21:58

And so again this goes back to this understanding

22:01

that as much as we love the Minoans

22:03

and Mycenians in the grand scheme of

22:05

the ancient Mediterranean, they were just not on

22:07

the same level. And who knows

22:09

what could have happened over time, like maybe

22:11

they would have eventually gotten to a

22:13

similar standing if the

22:16

whole thing hadn't collapsed. So

22:30

that's the Egyptians. But what about

22:32

those hit Tites you may be

22:34

asking. I mean, if you're not asking, you should.

22:37

The hit Tites are important. This

22:39

is big, this is we're finally getting

22:41

to Troy. As you might

22:43

expect, the Hittites are vastly important

22:46

to understanding the Bronze Age and were a

22:48

huge presence on the land itself, but

22:50

they were largely forgotten about for

22:53

most of history. Like it wasn't until

22:55

the early eighteen hundreds when

22:57

archaeologists were working on Roman

22:59

sites in what is now Turkey

23:02

and they realized they were looking

23:05

at something that was much

23:08

much older than the Romans, like

23:10

significantly older, Like there was

23:12

no chance in the world it could be the Romans.

23:15

Some archaeologists and academics at the time speculated

23:18

that what they were looking at was Egyptian, but

23:20

this idea was quickly thrown away, like obviously

23:23

what was being seen was just something

23:25

else, something different, something that

23:28

they hadn't known about before, And

23:31

so piecing out the Hittites

23:33

is still not the easiest thing in the world.

23:36

The name Hittite even was chosen from biblical

23:38

accounts, but that's not what these

23:41

people called themselves. I

23:43

don't really have a lot of time for anything that comes from

23:45

biblical accounts, but here we are. They referenced

23:47

themselves not as Hittites,

23:50

but as the Nestians or the nets Shites,

23:53

named for the city that was their capital for

23:55

two hundred years, and they were an

23:57

old people, with evidence of them existing

24:00

in that region in various ways

24:02

from the very beginning of the Bronze

24:04

Age all the way to its collapse. In

24:07

fact, the Hittites were arguably one

24:09

of the bigger empires in the Bronze

24:11

Age, like easily going up against

24:13

the Egyptians, Matani, Assyrians,

24:15

and Babylonians, just

24:17

like Egypt. They even controlled many

24:20

different vassal states in the region, and

24:22

the power that they exerted was

24:24

felt across the region. The

24:27

capital was eventually moved to a site

24:30

called Hatusa by a king named

24:32

Hatusili. His name literally

24:34

means like the man of Hattusa, which is delightful.

24:38

Mischange of capital was pivotal, as

24:40

the new site was heavily fortified not

24:42

only by the built environment, but

24:44

also by geography. And

24:48

at this site, what have we found? Clay

24:51

tablets. We love clay

24:53

tablets, We love textual sourcing,

24:56

and clay tablets tends to be one of the only

24:58

ways it survives that much time

25:01

now. Unfortunately, not all of these tablets are

25:03

readable to us. The writing that is found

25:05

on them, while written in a familiar

25:08

Cuneiform, is not a language

25:10

that has been deciphered quite yet. Still,

25:14

it shows us the use of a language that was

25:17

their own, like they weren't relying

25:19

on others. Other tablets

25:21

were written in Akkadian and tell us

25:23

so much more information about just life

25:26

there, not just administrative but religious

25:29

documents, poems and stories

25:31

and histories. These tablets

25:33

have allowed us to piece together the puzzle of

25:35

the Hittite Empire and just

25:38

how grand it really was,

25:41

and these people were seriously powerful.

25:43

They were able to march on Babylon

25:45

and burn it to the ground and end

25:47

Hamarabi's dynasty. Though

25:50

they went home immediately after, as

25:53

is their right, I kind of respect

25:55

it. That was

25:57

very early, though. It's the Hittite Empire

25:59

of the Late Bronze Age that is of interest to

26:01

us, because these are the people who had

26:03

direct contact and conflict with the

26:06

Aegean Greeks of the time.

26:09

It is from these conflicts that the

26:12

story of the Trojan War comes.

26:14

With this little seed of the Trojan War, I

26:17

should say, is in these conflicts. It

26:19

was inspired by them in some

26:21

form. We shouldn't believe there was

26:24

anything ever quite like

26:26

the Trojan War, but instead

26:28

evidence of multiple conflicts between

26:30

the groups and remnants of which

26:32

eventually inspired the

26:35

epic poems. The

26:37

history of contact and conflict

26:40

between the Myceneean states of the mainland

26:42

and the Hittites is a long one.

26:45

Starting around fourteen thirty BCE,

26:48

the Hittites were dealing with various revolutions

26:51

and conflicts with the states in their region,

26:53

collectively known as Assua. These

26:56

states in Asuwa were generally

26:58

located in northwestern Turkey, and

27:01

one of the names that we encounter in

27:04

this region controlled by the Hittites

27:07

is Lucia. Now,

27:10

if you're especially nerdy, you might already

27:12

recognize this name, but if you're not, don't worry. We'll

27:15

get there. The early

27:17

word for the city of Troy, the earliest

27:19

Greek word and how we get the name of

27:22

the Iliad is illy On.

27:25

And now just a real quick ancient Greek lesson.

27:27

The Greek alphabet is made up of twenty four characters,

27:30

and this has been true since

27:32

pretty much the Classical period, but

27:35

there's a hell of a lot of time before the classical period.

27:39

There is an earlier letter that was just sort of phased

27:42

out over time. You'll hear classicists

27:44

talk about it. I don't totally

27:46

understand what's going on with it, but I enjoy

27:49

speculating based on what I hear. For

27:52

our purposes, all we need to know

27:54

is that it was called a digamma

27:57

and it made a kind of double

27:59

sound. I don't know why it

28:01

went out of use. It's just one of those peculiarities

28:03

of languages that just happen through time. But

28:06

this does mean that there are some words

28:08

words in the Mysonean period that

28:10

had this w sound at

28:12

the beginning, and then that was lost into

28:15

the later Greek that we now have. Like

28:18

the Mysonyan word for king is wanax.

28:21

It's this perfect example because in linear

28:23

B it's wan axe

28:26

and it later becomes simply

28:28

an axe, just because this digamma

28:31

falls away. And

28:33

this is true for ilion, which in

28:36

earlier Mysonyan Greek would have

28:38

been something more like willion,

28:41

which, yes, let's all be excited about this, because it is truly

28:43

exciting. It sounds a lot

28:46

enough. I would argue, like, well,

28:48

Lucia, because like it is,

28:51

like it's that we

28:53

can go with this thread. And

28:56

my episode with Eric Klein coming

28:58

up next week on the Collapse is going to have

29:00

more of these examples that like blew my mind

29:02

in the moment. But at least for now,

29:04

we have some historical presence

29:07

for the city of Troy in this region, which

29:10

brings me back to the idea of these vassal

29:12

kingdoms. Remember how I just

29:15

mentioned this, Well, we can see that

29:17

like while the city of Troy was geographically

29:20

close to the Hittite Empire, it has

29:22

a history of not being specifically part

29:24

of it, like it was its own thing,

29:27

operating how it shows to, but

29:29

it would often have very close ties to the

29:31

Hittites themselves. But what's really

29:33

exciting about this specific revolution is

29:36

that we found a sword with an

29:38

inscription on it, and the inscription

29:40

reads as Duthaliah

29:43

the Great King shattered the Assuah

29:45

country. He dedicated these swords

29:47

to the storm god he loved. Now,

29:51

this inscription directly ties the swords

29:53

to this conflict that happened with

29:56

the Assua region, And

29:58

when the sword was examined further,

30:01

it was identified as being of

30:03

Myceiny In make Now, why

30:05

would a Mycenian sword with this inscription

30:07

on it be found deep in this Hittite

30:10

kingdom Not totally clear, but

30:12

at the very least it shows us that the Hittites

30:15

and the Mysonians were in contact

30:17

with each other. Were maybe

30:19

the Mysonians mercenaries of the Hittites,

30:22

or maybe they also for a time

30:24

operated as one of these vassal states

30:26

to this big Hittite empire.

30:29

We don't know, but regardless, we have the

30:31

Hittites and the Mysonians seemingly

30:34

together in a conflict

30:37

with this region of Assua,

30:39

where the city of Wilusia

30:42

is located.

30:45

Yeah, that's why we think the Trojan War isn't real.

30:47

It's just inspired by

30:49

lots of wild stuff put together. Now,

30:52

the date of this particular conflict like

30:54

much too early for the agreed upon date

30:56

of the Trojan War, but that's

30:59

because that's nonsense anyway. But what we do get

31:01

is an establishment of conflicts between

31:04

the mainland Greeks and the people

31:06

living in the Troad. So

31:09

very likely we have the inspiration

31:12

for what the poets would later go

31:14

on to create as the Trojan

31:16

War, and which at some point or

31:18

another got a date assigned

31:21

to it that just was not quite right for

31:24

the actual date of the conflict. But

31:26

we can't blame them for that, because, as you're

31:28

about to see, the whole thing's going to collapse.

31:32

And so here we stay in ancient ilion

31:34

Troy before this collapse, and what the

31:37

actual archaeological site

31:39

of Troy can tell us about

31:41

the connections between Troy

31:44

and mainland Greece throughout

31:46

history. Troy as a site has always

31:49

been incredibly popular. Many

31:51

people throughout time have visited

31:53

the site for their own personal reasons, but

31:55

also to interact with this narrative

31:58

around the Trojan cycle,

32:01

especially you know, in more

32:04

recent centuries, this idea

32:07

of the Homeric tra as

32:09

like humanity's origins, was

32:11

very popular amongst rich

32:14

elite people of Europe.

32:17

You know it. I'm

32:19

not gonna directly say it has problematic

32:23

origins, but like you can make the assumption, but

32:25

it leads us to so

32:28

as archaeology as a field

32:31

was really new, really just starting

32:33

to develop. The discovery

32:36

of Troy and hopeful proof of where

32:38

this great war occurred was quite

32:40

high on many people's

32:42

lists because of this great

32:45

mentality surrounding the Iliad.

32:49

The man who got to it first was

32:51

Heinrich Schlimann. There's

32:54

no way I haven't mentioned Schleiman

32:56

before. Now. He's a really

32:59

famous troublemaker when talking about

33:01

the Bronze Age, he fucked a lot

33:03

of shit up. Shleman

33:06

was around in the nineteenth century to

33:09

put it into our time frame, so he's

33:12

pretty recent. He wasn't

33:14

a trained archaeologist like we think

33:16

of them now. This was an earlier

33:18

time and so he was really just an eccentric

33:20

German businessman who had what

33:22

all archaeologists really dream

33:25

of having money,

33:28

But he also had an obsession with

33:31

the Iliad with Troy.

33:36

This money allowed him to self

33:38

fund the digs that he wanted

33:40

to happen, and he wanted

33:42

to prove the Trojan War was real. And

33:45

so this is how he got his hands on two very

33:48

important archaeological sites, Troy

33:51

and my Scenie, because

33:54

yeah, he had a real hard on for

33:57

finding proof of the Trojan War and all those

33:59

Akan heroes. He's

34:01

also wy the very pretty gold mask

34:04

found in a tomb of Mycenie is called the

34:06

mask of Agamemnon because

34:08

he found a mask with a

34:10

man's face on it and it was gold,

34:13

and so he said, huzzah, this is obviously

34:15

Agamemnon. Anyway,

34:18

it's not, but it's nice mask. It

34:21

just this gives you a little insight

34:23

into his archaeological

34:26

prowess, shall we say. Now,

34:29

Shleman did not get his hands on Kenosos,

34:33

which I want to say was nice, but instead

34:35

it was Arthur Evans who turned it into

34:37

a questionable recreation. That

34:39

is kind of a bummer. But Shleiman didn't

34:42

do a lot better with my Scene and

34:44

Troy. His methods were questionable

34:47

at best, Like he dynamited

34:50

his way through the exact

34:52

level where

34:54

the Trojan War would have been,

34:57

because he believed that the deepest

34:59

level of the city had to be the level of the Trojan

35:01

War for like no other reason

35:03

other than I think probably he thought

35:06

that meant it would be the greatest,

35:08

like the oldest is the greatest. I don't know, But

35:11

he destroyed a lot

35:14

because Troy has existed for so

35:16

long and was built over so many kind of

35:18

destroyed cities for various reasons. There

35:22

we refer to each layer as

35:24

like Troy six is that's

35:26

gonna come up soon, But that refers to the

35:29

level of the earth where

35:31

these certain things were found. I'm

35:34

not going to go into more science, you get

35:37

it. But honestly, when

35:39

it comes to Shleman, like I just I cannot with this

35:41

man, Like if you if

35:43

you feel like hating him for a reason other

35:45

than dynamiting Troy or

35:47

assuming everything that he found proved

35:50

the existence of Agamemnon of all people, then

35:53

let me just also share a little bit about his

35:55

personal life, like maybe you think I'm being too

35:57

harsh, Okay, okay, So basically,

35:59

Heinrich Schlehmann when he was just this rich businessman

36:02

before he devoted his life to finding

36:04

Troy. He wanted to legally opt

36:06

out of his marriage and his wife

36:08

and three children, and she wouldn't

36:11

divorce him, so he moved from

36:13

He left his family to move from Europe

36:16

to Indiana because

36:18

Indiana had lax divorce

36:20

laws, and so by

36:22

living in Indiana for a few months, because he had all

36:25

the money in the world, he was able to force his wife

36:27

to divorce him, and then he immediately

36:29

moved to Athens, where two months later

36:32

he married a seventeen year old Greek

36:34

girl. Yeah.

36:36

I think he would have been about forty five, had

36:40

three kids. I don't know how old they

36:42

were, but this girl was seventeen.

36:45

Oh, and he procured

36:48

this new wife. I don't even know what to do with this because

36:51

his friend, I want to say, found

36:53

her, but really no, she was his cousin.

36:57

Kause Shleman went to Athens and

36:59

chatted with his friend, who was also an archbishop, and

37:01

he was like, I just want to I just want to

37:03

find someone who and this is a

37:05

quote from Wikipedia, someone who

37:08

is enthusiastic about Homer

37:10

and about a rebirth of my beloved

37:12

Greece with a Greek name and

37:14

a soul, impassioned for

37:16

learning. So

37:20

when somebody showed him a seventeen year old

37:22

girl named Sophia,

37:25

he was sold. Anyway,

37:29

Sophia just means wisdom

37:31

in Greek, and I'm

37:35

gonna stop now except to say that they had two

37:37

children and their names were Agamemnon

37:39

and Androma. Y. I

37:42

mean, if I think I'm obsessed, I would never

37:45

My god, man, this man was a horror

37:47

show. But again he found Troy and

37:49

myceni like. He didn't do it

37:51

well, and other people probably would have

37:53

done it better, just like a little bit later if he hadn't.

37:56

But I suppose we do still have to credit

37:59

him and his pervy pervy money

38:01

with the fines. Now, you started

38:03

the excavations at Troy, but obviously there

38:05

have been many excavations since. So

38:07

we can set Schlemann

38:10

aside in the backwaters of history

38:12

where he belongs and

38:14

tell you that what we now have, thanks to actual

38:17

archaeologists, is a pretty detailed understanding

38:20

of the various levels of settlement that

38:22

happened at the site, not

38:24

as detailed as we would like. You

38:27

know, sometimes dynamite causes

38:29

some damage.

38:31

There are nine different levels of settlement at

38:33

Troy that range from three thousand BCE

38:36

to nine to fifty BCE. The

38:38

level that we are most interested in

38:40

is this sixth layer, Troy six,

38:43

which ranges from around circa

38:46

seventeen fifty to thirteen hundred.

38:48

So if there was one, if there was only

38:50

one conflict that inspired the story of the Trojan

38:52

War, it's believed to have taken place during

38:55

twelve fifty BCE. This

38:57

is hotly debated. It's also possible there there are lots

38:59

of conflicts. At least one conflict,

39:02

if not multiple, eventually inspired

39:04

the Iliad. But again, you

39:06

know, however sad this may be, we

39:08

should not believe anything

39:11

from the Iliad actually happened, even setting

39:13

aside the very likely detail

39:15

of a man fighting a river it

39:17

is it is fiction. The

39:19

exact nature of this war, the real

39:22

war, is unclear, and likely we won't

39:24

ever be able to discern what it was about,

39:27

nor are we ever able to completely

39:29

decide what caused the destruction of

39:31

that sixth level of Troy. As

39:34

I mentioned, there definitely was conflict

39:36

between the Mycenians and the city of Troy,

39:38

but whether this was directly between each other

39:41

or the Mycenians being used by the Hittite Empire

39:43

totally unclear. If there's

39:45

one thing we can be clear about, though, is

39:48

that the war was not started because of a pretty

39:50

woman. Helen

39:53

is not at fault, nor was she at fault

39:55

in the Iliad for that matter. Still

39:58

looking at Troy six, this level most

40:01

likely to align with a war that could have inspired

40:03

later epics, we are able

40:05

to tell that the city was incredibly important

40:08

and wealthy. The region itself

40:10

is incredibly advantageous, as it's

40:12

so close to the bosphor As Strait, which connects

40:15

the wider Mediterranean to the Black Sea,

40:17

good old Hellispont. In

40:20

the layer of Troy six to you, we find

40:22

many examples of pottery and goods

40:24

from not only mainland Greece, but also

40:26

Minoan and Cypriot, Levantine, Mesopotamian,

40:30

Egyptian. Like everything,

40:33

it was a hugely connected area, as I've

40:35

said a thousand times, but specifically the architecture

40:38

itself also shows influence from

40:40

the Hittites and Mycenians. The

40:42

city itself was also heavily fortified, with

40:44

walls and towers that looked out over the

40:46

surrounding landscape, which itself

40:48

was filled with habitation. The area

40:51

was extensively developed and not a

40:53

small little city state like the city itself

40:55

was filled with various buildings,

40:58

some that even resemble the Megaron

41:00

houses that we see on mainland Grease. But

41:03

this city level was eventually

41:05

destroyed by something. Some

41:07

speculate that the destruction was not

41:10

caused by people but earthquakes.

41:13

Regardless of the reason, it

41:15

was eventually rebuilt, and rather quickly.

41:17

Actually, this is just not a site

41:19

that was ever inactive for very long,

41:22

and just to really drill in the Homeric

41:24

inspiration found here, there are some

41:27

tablets found at Hetusa that have

41:29

some names of people

41:32

and places that might sound

41:35

familiar. For instance, Achiawa

41:38

and Alexandu

41:41

basically Achaean's and

41:43

Alexandros, which is

41:45

another name for Paris. And

41:48

finally, it comes in handy that I no longer

41:50

seem to be able to pronounce Akaya

41:52

with my regular accent. Akaya

41:57

anyway, Ahaya sounds a lot more like Ahiawa.

42:00

You're welcome these names. They don't confirm

42:02

anything, but they do give us just these little hints

42:05

about how the later epic poets

42:08

might have found little bits and

42:10

pieces of inspiration in what

42:12

was left behind by the Bronze Age

42:14

people that had come before them. They

42:17

didn't have the answers, they didn't have a book

42:19

to read. They just had all of

42:21

these little things left

42:24

behind and the stories that they could

42:26

come up with surrounding those

42:28

little things.

42:45

Oh Nerds, As always, thank

42:47

you so much for listening. This has been

42:49

a wild ride traveling across

42:51

the Bronze Age Mediterranean, and

42:54

we're not done yet. On Friday, I have a conversation

42:56

with you wonderful Joel Christensen, who

42:58

is back to talk about Homeric epic,

43:01

but particularly how the stories began and

43:03

how they were transmitted, and what we know about

43:06

when they became the Iliad and the audist

43:08

that survived today. We might not ever

43:11

be able to make direct connections between

43:13

this Bronze Age history and the creation

43:15

of the epics, but I don't think this series

43:17

would be complete without a little deviation into

43:19

the Iron Age to look at the epics

43:22

that were certainly somehow

43:25

inspired by this Bronze Age

43:27

of Greece. Once again,

43:29

this episode is more than long enough, so I will

43:31

just leave you with a five star review from one

43:34

of you amazing listeners, and boy does

43:36

this one have a great pun in it. Thank

43:38

you. This comes from a user called Kitman

43:40

Forbes from the UK. Let's

43:43

talk about Met's Baby. Just discover

43:46

this very informative sasy dynamic

43:48

podcast a joy listened to and

43:50

to increase understanding of all things Greek

43:53

Euripides. These reviews up Baby

43:56

just brilliant. Thank

43:58

you? I mean, did

44:00

it roll off the tongue? No? Was it a Euripides

44:02

pun? Yes? That's all that matters, So

44:06

thank you for that review and on everyone else.

44:08

If you haven't left one, consider heading over

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to Apple podcast to say something nice about me. It

44:13

makes me happy, like it

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helps the show keep going

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44:22

could really use more happy.

44:25

This goes for any and all appreciation of the show

44:28

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44:30

fact that this sounded normal is impressive,

44:33

says I've gotten really good at reading into a

44:35

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44:39

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44:56

talk about Miss Baby is written and

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produced by me Live Albert Nikayla Smith

45:00

is the hermes to my Olympians. I mean,

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she's the systant producer, but like

45:04

in this series, I mean, god, it wouldn't exist

45:07

without her for multiple reasons. But as

45:09

you heard in that script, like I didn't know the thing about

45:11

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45:17

mean honestly, she wrote this entire script, So thank you, Makaila.

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45:22

Smith is the production assistant and audio engineer

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and is killing it on all of these conversation episodes

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music in this episode was by Luca Chaos.

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45:48

anymore. Visit patreon dot com slash myths, baby

45:50

A click the link in this episode's description. Back

45:54

soon with more bronze age. What

45:56

a thrill ride. Cannot wait for the elites

45:59

to fall. I

46:02

am live and I love this shit.

46:06

I love it more when we defeat capitalism.