0:00

Now playing in Los Angeles, exquisite food

0:02

and drink, world-class art

0:05

everywhere. Spectacular sports, dazzling

0:08

Hollywood attractions. L.A.

0:12

offers the full variety of food scene.

0:14

From game-changing taco trucks

0:17

to 35 Michelin stars. And

0:21

did you know that Los Angeles has more

0:23

museums and theaters than New York City? Get

0:26

your facts in music, film,

0:28

comedy, and world-class museums.

0:30

Plus get behind the scenes in

0:32

movie magic with a world-famous

0:34

studio tour. That's something that should

0:37

be on everyone's bucket list. Start

0:40

here with discoverla.com. At

0:44

Advanced Dentistry, we get it. I

0:46

needed to find someone who was closer to

0:48

home, easy to schedule with, and that I

0:50

could afford. As a self-employed

0:52

person, I cover all my own medical

0:55

costs. And Advanced Dentistry was really affordable.

0:57

It was easy to make appointments, and

0:59

I really loved working with everybody there.

1:02

If you've been avoiding the dentist because of

1:04

fear, worry, or just not wanting to

1:07

be judged, you're not alone. Visit nofearedentist.com

1:09

to learn how IV sedation can change

1:11

your life. I

1:15

wrote a memoir a few years ago, and

1:17

at one point we were going to call

1:19

it No Coke for Ducky because... Amazing. Because

1:22

no one ever offered me drugs because I think they just thought

1:24

I was a musical theater nerd, which I am, and I don't

1:26

do drugs, but I think people just sensed it. They

1:31

were like, that guy's a dork. We're not going to offer him drugs. And

1:34

that actually obviously worked out great for me. Hey,

1:49

everybody. I'm so glad

1:51

you're here on, literally, John

1:53

Cryer is here. I've been

1:55

looking forward to this one because we... He's

1:59

brat packaging. He's

2:01

not in the pack, per

2:04

se, but he is adjacent to

2:06

the pack. And I

2:09

feel like we

2:11

have had some times

2:14

together, but not sure.

2:17

But yet, maybe it's because he's

2:19

been on TV forever and so many great shows. I

2:21

feel like I know him, but I don't think I

2:23

actually do. There's a

2:25

lot to unpack is really what I'm trying to say.

2:28

And it's time to start unpacking with John

2:31

Cryer. Hey,

2:34

Rob Lowe. How

2:39

are you? I'm

2:42

trying to think of like,

2:45

we've spent time together, but I don't have

2:47

a time... But

2:51

you know you. John, you left no impression. Do I know

2:53

you, John? Well,

2:58

we have been in the same circles

3:00

for decades, obviously. The

3:04

crazy thing was, I just met Kiefer Sutherland

3:06

two weeks ago for the first time in

3:08

my life. And that's nuts. That's

3:11

weird. I kind of feel

3:13

the same way with us. I feel like

3:15

we haven't had the proper amount of Facetime

3:17

together. No, we have not. We have not.

3:20

I'm very much looking forward to this. So

3:22

we actually, our paths almost crossed at

3:24

one point many, many

3:26

years ago because

3:29

Kenny Ortega approached

3:31

me about doing a big

3:34

song and dance number during the

3:36

Oscars where they wanted to have

3:38

old Hollywood sort of meet young

3:41

Hollywood. And

3:44

I remember I really wanted to do that. I

3:47

think I had a scheduling thing

3:49

because I love Kenny Ortega, the choreographer.

3:51

I was like, yeah, are you kidding? Beyond

3:53

the Oscars, this is going to be great. And

3:56

I was just crushed. I was crestfallen

3:58

that I was not able to pair.

4:00

participate. And then you

4:03

had the fun of actually being a part of that number.

4:05

I know now were you, because there were two, I

4:09

get all the flack for the

4:11

horrendous boondoggle, the Waterloo

4:13

that was the opening of the

4:15

Oscars. But what

4:17

people forget was the other

4:20

number called

4:22

Young Hollywood. That was it. That was what he wanted

4:24

me to be a part of. So

4:26

maybe you would have been swinging

4:29

on the rope that Christian Slater

4:31

swung in on. Yes. And you're

4:33

absolutely right in that the whole thing

4:36

was a boondoggle. Absolutely. It

4:39

was poorly thought out. Let's

4:41

just say that. Alan Carr

4:43

was the guy that produced it

4:45

and that taught me one

4:47

of my number one isms

4:50

of Hollywood is never trust a man in

4:52

a caftan. Yes,

4:57

that's for the board. Or or or

4:59

never trust a producer who makes the

5:02

movie version of Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts

5:04

Club Band without the Beatles. Yeah,

5:06

that'd be another one. Yes, maybe

5:08

that was also ill, ill considered.

5:12

But but dude, first of all, let's

5:15

have Snow White sing for

5:17

20 minutes or so. I mean, that

5:19

was that was not again,

5:22

I don't know what they were thinking. But

5:25

but God bless you, man, you you absolutely,

5:29

manfully got through that

5:32

thing. I soldered on I will

5:35

never forget looking out. That was the

5:37

year of Rain Man. Right. That

5:39

was okay. That was the year what Rain

5:41

Man won 75 Oscars. As

5:44

a young actor, you the

5:47

person the director that you would want to

5:49

impress more than anybody in the planet is

5:51

Barry Levinson. And I remember in

5:53

the middle of the number fixating

5:56

on Barry in the middle that sea

5:58

of famous people. Fixating

6:00

on Barry Levinson, it was like a fucking spotlight was hitting

6:02

him in the face. I couldn't take

6:04

my eyes off of him. And John and

6:07

I am not kidding you when I say, I

6:09

saw him mouth

6:12

very clearly, what

6:14

the fuck? And

6:18

then, you know, your actor's

6:21

ego takes over. You're like,

6:23

how the fuck does Barry

6:26

Levinson know? I'm killing. You

6:28

know? Let's go

6:30

on with the show. Well,

6:36

fuck dude. Yeah,

6:39

again. But like I said, I

6:41

want there, but for the grace of God, you

6:43

know, I wanted to be there too,

6:45

you know? Well, listen, you've

6:48

been on Broadway, obviously you're a Neil

6:50

Simon guy, but did you do musical

6:52

musical theater as a young'un? As

6:54

a young'un, I did it like I went to a

6:56

theater camp called Stage Door Manor. It was, you know,

6:59

so I did a lot of it there. And

7:02

I, you know, I did company

7:04

at Lincoln Center. Oh, no way. My

7:08

big musical credit. Wait,

7:10

when did you do company? I

7:12

love that. I just saw the revival. Before

7:16

it came to Broadway, I saw it in

7:18

the West End, that iteration of the new

7:20

company, which is fantastic. Yeah, it's

7:22

a remarkable reimagining of it. But

7:24

yeah, I had no, actually

7:27

it was, I don't know if

7:29

you remember, there was a guy, I used to do a

7:31

TV show called Two and a Half Men with Charlie Sheen.

7:34

I know this gentleman. Yes. And

7:36

at one point, he went insane. Yeah,

7:39

and they were called something like that

7:41

happening. Yeah, something like that, vaguely. And

7:45

he got fired from the show and

7:47

the show shut down. And

7:49

the only offer I got at

7:51

that moment of being suddenly unemployed

7:54

was to do company at Lincoln

7:56

Center. Wow. And it was, but

7:58

it was a. I had

8:00

been told it was like an encores

8:02

production, and you've seen encores productions, they're

8:04

like with the script in hand. Yeah,

8:07

yeah, yeah, yeah. And they throw them

8:09

together really quick, just a beloved old

8:11

lost musicals or whatever, and

8:13

they're really fun. Yeah. So

8:16

I had been told that it was gonna be one

8:18

of those deals. It was at Lincoln

8:20

Center, I was like, oh, that'll be fun, you know, we only have

8:22

two weeks to rehearse, but

8:24

Neil Patrick Harris is playing Bobby, and

8:26

Patti LuPone is in it. Jesus Christ.

8:29

And Stephen Colbert was in it, and Christina

8:32

Hendricks, and it was nutty, nutty cast. And

8:35

I remember they asked,

8:39

I got a call from the director

8:41

saying, oh, you know, tomorrow's your first

8:43

choreography rehearsal. And I said, I beg

8:46

your pardon, this was an encores production,

8:49

we're not doing choreography. He was like,

8:51

oh no, this is a fully staged

8:54

production of company. That

8:56

was just, you just misunderstood, dude. And

9:00

I was like, but we're only doing it in two weeks,

9:03

and Neil Patrick Harris missed the first week because he

9:05

was doing How I Met Your Mother. So

9:09

I get to Lincoln

9:11

Center, and I'm asking like Stephen Colbert, and I'm

9:13

like, dude, did you know that this was a

9:15

fully staged production? And he was like, no, I

9:18

have to go to karate class, because I do

9:20

karate in the first number. You

9:23

know, me and him and

9:25

Martha Plimpton, we did not know that it

9:27

was a fully staged production. We

9:29

were just sort of drafted into it, but it was

9:31

really incredibly fun. And they actually shot it, and

9:34

they played it in theaters, and Neil

9:36

Patrick Harris is a flipping revelation in

9:38

it. He's amazing. And it was

9:41

the first time Patti LuPone, I

9:43

mean, she'd sung the song before, she'd sung Ladies Who Lunch, but

9:46

it was the first time she really got a chance to play

9:48

the whole character, and it was just like, damn,

9:50

you know. So,

9:52

and the crazy thing was, I ended

9:54

up doing that show right as Charlie

9:57

Sheen's violent torpedo of truth

9:59

live. tour came through

10:01

New York City. Wow. So, yeah.

10:05

So, I was at Lincoln Center

10:08

and he was at Radio City Music all

10:10

in a vastly different show. Wait

10:12

a minute. Charlie, the Torpedo tooth

10:14

played Radio City? Yes.

10:17

It played huge venues. And

10:20

that was, okay, just to refresh everybody's

10:22

memory, and people kind of can't believe

10:25

this ever actually happened. Once

10:27

Charlie Sheen started going crazy and doing

10:30

these crazy midnight rants and

10:32

saying horrible things about people,

10:34

and he got fired from his

10:37

show where he was literally the highest

10:39

paid actor in show business.

10:44

He got fired from that. He immediately,

10:47

despite the fact that everybody thought he was actually

10:50

having a breakdown, Live

10:53

Nation said, would you like to do a live tour?

10:58

As one does when people are

11:00

having mental breakdowns. So

11:04

when I heard this, I said, well, but

11:06

Charlie doesn't know how to put together a live

11:09

show. I don't think. I mean,

11:11

I don't know if you know Charlie. You

11:13

know, he's a very gifted performer, but I

11:17

didn't see that in his toolbox. Did they think he was

11:19

going to do like Mark Twain or...?

11:24

How Holbrook? Exactly.

11:27

I was like, what is

11:29

he going to do as a show

11:31

by himself that,

11:34

by the way, was booking venues like

11:36

Radio City Music Hall and, you know,

11:39

arenas. You know, I mean, it booked

11:42

very big venues. So

11:44

and interestingly, only recently have I heard

11:47

from comedy

11:49

folks who were apparently there was

11:51

a lot of feelers put out

11:53

by his management to try and

11:55

help him build that live show.

11:57

Right. I was just talking with Mark Maron.

12:00

And he was one of the people that

12:02

they brought up to Charlie's house to say

12:04

hey Can we come up with an idea

12:06

and they pretty much everybody who came up

12:08

there came away going? He's having a mental

12:10

breakdown. You really shouldn't send him out on

12:13

the road But they they did anyway, and

12:15

we ended up playing the same night You

12:18

know on on you know he was in

12:21

Midtown and I was in Lincoln

12:23

Center Which prevented you from seeing his

12:25

show and vice versa yes, yes

12:27

Although I don't know he's much of a Sondheim

12:29

guy. He might be I never

12:32

know he's a you know He's he's a mysterious

12:34

one. Yes. Yes, he's an enigma

12:38

He's an enigma, but you know he may be

12:40

down with some sound time He

12:42

might be I don't want to yeah, I don't want to judge What

12:46

so much to cover first of all I

12:48

need to figure out why? growing

12:51

up in Ohio and wanting

12:53

to be an actor and being in this sort of Young

12:56

kid acting Kenley players as it was

12:58

a thing like was that Sort

13:01

of bussing truck summer stock thing

13:04

that I heard your mother's name all

13:06

the time Why not

13:08

is this possible did your mom and my mom go

13:10

to school to get where does your mom go? She

13:13

there's I'm telling you your mom and my mom have a connection

13:16

Okay interesting and I'm trying to figure this

13:18

out okay in Ohio

13:21

Well, it's a couple of things my mom grew up in

13:23

Indiana, okay, there it is where she go to school DePaul

13:25

She went to DePaul. That's what it is. My mom went

13:27

to DePaul. Oh my god. I

13:30

think they might be sorority sisters. Oh

13:33

My god pressure amazing that is amazing

13:36

to pause a little a little charming

13:38

little school in a tiny little town

13:40

And then Tara hoked in Indiana And

13:44

and yeah, my mom went there. I mean it was

13:46

another era, you know I

13:49

was just Vernon Jordan went there, right? I don't

13:51

know if your mom ever ever talked about him

13:55

But it was you know, but

13:57

yeah, my dad went to that school as well.

13:59

Oh Wow. Um, but that's nuts. I

14:02

mean, they got, they got married right out of

14:04

there. Same. Right. My, my, my mom and my

14:06

dad got married right, right out of it. Um,

14:09

you'll have to, yeah, I, uh, it'd

14:12

be great to go back in the yearbook and see if Barbara

14:14

Hepler, Oh my God.

14:16

I'm, because I think, I think

14:18

what it was was like, as I wanted to be an actor,

14:21

the only actor that she'd ever known

14:23

personally was your mother. Huh.

14:26

And so she'd be like, yeah, Gretchen, Gretchen,

14:29

she's, she's, she made, she made it. She

14:31

went to New York and she's doing her thing. And

14:34

I remember, I remember that name. I

14:36

remember that's being crazy. Um, well, my

14:39

mom moved

14:41

to New York city with my dad, but they were divorced

14:43

when I was four and same.

14:46

She somehow managed to make a living

14:49

in New York city as a playwright and an

14:51

actress as a single mom. In retrospect,

14:53

I don't know how she did that.

14:56

That's a TV show. Yeah.

14:58

Her life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

15:01

and, and she refuses to believe that her life

15:03

is in any way extraordinary. And I, I've, I've,

15:05

I've tried to impress upon her. It's like, you

15:08

know, you've lived through the, you know, World War

15:10

II and the, and the fifties and the birth

15:12

of feminism. And you like, right where she wrote

15:14

a musical called I'm Getting My Act Together and

15:17

Taking On The Road. That's what it is. That's

15:19

where we go. That's it. Yeah. It

15:21

was considered a sort of breakthrough feminist

15:24

musical back in 1978. When

15:26

it, when it premiered and, uh,

15:28

and you know, she's, you

15:30

know, she only sees, uh, uh,

15:33

you know, she's like, I'm from Indiana. Who cares what I

15:35

say? And I've been trying to get her to write a

15:37

book about her life. Cause I think her life is so

15:39

fascinating. I mean like she, that's the

15:41

real version of the, whatever the talented Mrs.

15:43

Maisel, like, like, what are

15:46

the Marvelous, like, I want to see that iteration of

15:48

your mom's life. Yes. I

15:50

agree. I agree. Um, and it was, you know, it

15:52

was, I, I loved it.

15:54

I loved growing up backstage where we're now. Okay.

15:57

So you had to find the theater from where,

16:00

you were growing up, right? Well, ironically, there

16:02

was a ton of it. There was this

16:04

thing that I'm obsessed with called the Kenley

16:06

Players. And it

16:09

was a traveling, John

16:12

Kenley was this

16:14

theater empressario, look like the Riddler

16:16

from Batman. Even

16:19

in 1975, Dayton, Ohio, as

16:22

an eight-year-old, I was aware that he

16:24

was a hermaphrodite. Oh my

16:27

gosh! That isn't... Wow!

16:29

No, no, you've got to go... How's

16:33

Ryan Murphy not done

16:35

the John Kenley? Believe

16:38

me, Chad Lowe was going to

16:40

do a documentary and Mr.

16:42

Kenley passed away, but he was going

16:44

to interview... Chad was going

16:46

to interview him for this documentary and he could never really get

16:48

Mr. Kenley to talk. So

16:50

he would bring in whoever was the hottest

16:54

TV star on their hiatus

16:57

in the summers, pay them a

16:59

fortune, and you would

17:02

do a bus and truck version of

17:04

Oliver if you're Vincent Price. I

17:08

saw Sandy Duncan and Peter Pan.

17:11

I saw Shirley Jones, hot off the Partridge family,

17:13

and on a clear day you can see forever.

17:15

I saw Dom DeLuise and under the

17:17

yum-yum tree. I saw

17:21

Henry Winkler when he was fondly. And

17:24

you would play Dayton, Cincinnati, Columbus.

17:28

So that was like in the summers,

17:30

like you could audition for the local iteration

17:32

of those casts. And man, I

17:34

felt like I was on Broadway. I mean, by the way,

17:36

I never got any of the auditions. I never... Oh

17:39

no. I never did. But

17:41

there was a lot of work as a young

17:44

actor, and when I moved to

17:46

LA, there's no theater. Mm-hmm,

17:48

no. No, it's barren. There's

17:52

touring shows occasionally come through. Yeah, but

17:54

nothing that feels like self-generated. Only back

17:56

in the 70s and 80s. it's

18:00

a different situation now, but back

18:03

then, yeah, no, the

18:05

only thing is movies and TV in

18:08

Los Angeles. You've got, you're either

18:10

in the NFL playing

18:12

football, there's no Pop Warner. Yeah.

18:16

And that's a shame actually, because how do you build,

18:18

you know, everything has to sort of come from, it

18:21

has to be zero to 60, you know, it's got

18:23

to be somebody who's never done anything before, suddenly he's

18:25

got something, it's like, well, no training

18:28

might help. Well, do

18:30

you know what I find, I'm curious, is

18:33

this is not a knock on anything other

18:35

than it's just a fact that I've noticed

18:38

that young actors have

18:41

grown up with directors

18:44

telling them where to go, what to do and how to

18:46

do it. I remember the first day a director ever told

18:49

me. So I'm

18:51

thinking you would come in the door

18:53

and then when Billy Joe says, you

18:55

know, how's your mother, you kind

18:57

of, maybe you kind of sit at the table

18:59

and then like, that was unheard, when I came

19:02

up, that was unheard of. Directors did not do

19:04

that. Actors figured out what the fuck

19:06

they were going to do. And

19:08

then the directors figured out where to put

19:10

the, you know, like Coppola, like, for instance,

19:12

Coppola didn't tell you where to do or

19:14

what we did it. And

19:17

so, but now that's all it is. All

19:20

it is. So you have a whole generation of

19:22

actors who literally don't know how to walk and

19:24

talk at the same time. Interesting. Okay.

19:27

Was Outsiders, was that like

19:29

your third movie? I mean, that was

19:32

pretty. That was your first. Holy smokes,

19:34

man. First. Wow. Wow.

19:37

So working with Coppola on your first movie. Yeah. That's

19:40

insane. It was insane. That's insane. I

19:42

mean, so were you, I imagine,

19:44

intimidated? Super

19:47

intimidated, but also like wanting

19:50

to murder. Like, like, do you know what

19:52

I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

19:54

It's a great mix of that

19:57

you search for. It's like crack. You search for it

19:59

your whole career. career of

20:01

like working with someone who's

20:03

a legend and you want

20:05

to impress them and all you want to do

20:07

is be seen by them and impress them. And

20:10

then, but you all start like, fuck it, I'm going

20:12

to run through what was the best.

20:14

It was the best. And

20:17

it's an amazing piece of work, you know? And

20:20

like I like on my first, my

20:22

very first movie, and this is actually

20:24

an interesting parallel but with a very

20:26

different outcome. My first

20:30

work in a movie was on

20:32

a Robert Altman movie. No way. Yeah.

20:35

On a movie called O.C. and Stig's. It was a teen

20:37

comedy that he was trying to do. And

20:43

had a blast. You know,

20:45

his way of working, as you

20:47

said, was, but it was an extreme

20:49

version of what you said. Extreme version.

20:51

Yes. Yes. And

20:54

then you'd have a general idea of the

20:56

way the scene was supposed to go and

20:58

then he would just let you improv it,

21:00

which is an incredibly ballsy

21:02

way of making a movie. Yes. And

21:05

it requires that the crew be working at this

21:07

incredible level, you know, to sort of catch all

21:09

the stuff that's going on. And

21:12

I was incredibly intimidated, but the crazy thing was,

21:14

I was like, oh, is this how it works?

21:18

You know, they just mic everybody up

21:20

and you just make up a movie as you go

21:22

along because then you're just like, wow, the Godfather is

21:24

really amazing. You know, he

21:26

made that up. No,

21:28

obviously I knew that that wasn't the thing. But

21:31

seeing that a director could so completely have

21:34

his own way of working that

21:36

just was not in any way

21:38

what I imagined the process was,

21:40

was really fascinating for me. Yeah.

21:43

It's funny because you just

21:46

don't see the first director, ironically, who

21:48

ever like told you me exactly what

21:50

to do. And he was famous for

21:53

doing this with Peter Bogdanovich. Oh,

21:55

yes. Yes. And I auditioned

21:57

for him, but yeah, go ahead. I love it. I

22:01

mean, for those of you, I

22:03

know Peter directed it for my money, three

22:06

of the greatest movies ever made back to

22:08

back. Last picture show, Paper

22:11

Moon, What's Up Doc. Yes. And

22:14

in the most ridiculously diverse

22:17

genres, nothing like

22:19

each other. Nothing like each other. Other

22:22

than being really flipping good. And submacculate. And

22:24

then he kind of lost his mind. And

22:27

it was banished. I

22:29

actually said to him, Peter said, Peter, did you

22:31

really direct the movie at long last love from

22:34

horseback? And

22:37

he goes, and he said, it seemed like

22:39

a good idea at the time. So

22:44

yeah, he lost his mind. And

22:46

then he made, then I auditioned for him

22:48

for a movie called Mask. Yes,

22:51

me too. Did you put the

22:53

stocking cap over your face? Did he make you

22:55

do that? No, it was me. That did not

22:57

even occur to me. Well, it didn't occur to

22:59

me. They made me do it. Oh

23:01

my gosh. Okay. Wow.

23:03

No, that was not part of

23:05

my process. I had two layers

23:07

of women's pantyhose over

23:10

my face with little tiny eye slits.

23:14

So the logic is that by

23:18

melding your face into itself the way

23:20

that a stocking would, you see the

23:22

eyes only. Oh,

23:24

okay. Because you're going to be in

23:27

full prosthetics. Which Eric

23:29

Stoltz got the job and was great. And

23:32

so they made that, I didn't get it, Eric did.

23:35

And that movie was a big hit. And we

23:37

thought, oh, Peter's back and he's not crazy. He

23:39

was still crazy, it turns out. Because when I

23:41

did my movie, it was a total anomaly. When

23:43

I did my movie, he was out of his...

23:46

Wait, which one was yours? I'm sorry. Oh,

23:48

good lord. It's called, it's

23:52

called illegally yours. Okay.

23:56

And it, I mean, I don't even know

23:58

what to say about it. Other

24:00

than, have you ever worked

24:03

with someone who's so

24:05

charming, so bright, so

24:08

learned, so

24:10

charismatic that they

24:12

get you to do things and pitch ideas

24:15

that you just, it's like a cult leader.

24:17

I'm like, yes, Peter, that sounds like a

24:19

great idea. And then you finish the project

24:22

and you go, what were we

24:24

thinking? And that's what it was,

24:26

working with Bogdanovich in that sense.

24:28

Similar to Altman in my case,

24:30

and loved working with him, would

24:33

do it again in a minute, had he offered

24:35

me the chance, obviously, before he passed. But

24:38

no, it was 100% cult leader stuff. We

24:43

would walk off the edge of a building for

24:45

him. And was he, like Peter,

24:47

was surrounded by, I

24:49

don't want to say flunkies, acolytes. Well,

24:52

as any true cult leader would have, I

24:54

mean, you have to have your acolytes, you're

24:56

not a cult leader, to people on the

24:58

call. It doesn't count. You

25:01

know what, I wouldn't because they

25:04

were used to fulfilling his vision

25:07

because it makes Nashville and

25:09

MASH and Gothford Park

25:12

and the player, another guy

25:14

who mastered incredible diversity

25:18

of projects. So

25:21

they were used to going, you know what, it's what he

25:23

wants, let's do it. Again,

25:26

either you have MASH or you have

25:28

O.C. and Stiggs, which is never released.

25:31

It was never released. Who else was in

25:33

it with you? I feel like somebody I know was in it.

25:36

Neil Barry was in it and a guy

25:38

named Dan Jenkins, you might know Dan, Dan,

25:42

he ended up doing Big River on Broadway

25:44

for a while and a wonderful actor. But

25:47

like Crazy Cat, I mean,

25:49

it was like Jane Curtin and Ray Walston and

25:53

Dennis Hopper was in it. I

25:55

mean, it was a crazy Altman cast, you know, it

25:57

was bonkers. And

25:59

we all saw it. sort of were like along for the ride.

26:01

And he made it into a party every night. He'd

26:04

show dailies to everybody. And

26:06

the same with Peter. Everybody would drink and

26:08

smoke. And on

26:10

outsiders, Francis would cater it, would have

26:13

sushi flown in. We had a

26:15

rap party every Friday night. I

26:18

thought, oh, this is the way movies are made. Every

26:20

Friday night is a party where the director cooks. Yeah,

26:26

you know, it was coming out of the 70s. The

26:29

70s was that time when all the

26:31

directors were breaking the mold and reimagining,

26:33

you know, the easy

26:35

rider just unleashed this flood of, you know

26:38

what? We don't have to play by these

26:40

rules. And actors don't have to look like

26:42

they used to. And they don't. And, you

26:44

know, we can make incredibly gritty movies. And,

26:47

you know, we can make a taxi driver

26:49

now, you know. Yeah. And

26:51

so, you know, coming off that into the

26:53

80s when, you

26:56

know, filmmaking changed again, you know, you and

26:58

I were coming around when... And

27:00

I realized that what I benefited greatly from

27:02

was there was this bubble of teen movies

27:05

where suddenly they needed a lot of us,

27:08

you know. Yeah. And

27:10

so, you know, I auditioned for Sixteen

27:12

Candles. Didn't get it. You know, auditioned

27:14

for some other ones. But I did

27:16

get Pretty in Pink, you know. So,

27:19

you know, there was a lot of

27:21

opportunities floating around. Quince

27:30

creates timeless essentials that never go out of style. You'll have them

27:32

in your closet forever. Quince

27:35

has all the must-haves, like

27:37

100% Mongolian cashmere-crunick sweaters, from

27:41

$59, 100% leather jackets, and fitted pants. The

27:46

best part, all of

27:48

Quince's items are priced 50% to 80% less

27:51

than similar brands. By partnering directly with the

27:53

top factories, Quince

27:56

cuts the cost of the middleman and passes the

27:58

savings on a $100,000. The

28:00

you. And. Quits only works with

28:02

stock, receives safe, ethical and responsible

28:04

manufacturing practices along with premium fabrics

28:06

and finishes. Love it! I producer

28:08

recently made in order for Quince

28:10

and years when he had to

28:12

say. i'm really excited to revamp

28:14

my closet with Quince. I can

28:17

not wait for my items to

28:19

arrive from Quince. You know I'm

28:21

a sweater guy. I was looking

28:23

at that burgundy cashmere crew neck.

28:25

I love the blue Chore jacket.

28:27

Maybe a threesome joggers in their

28:29

upgrade Your Closet with Quince. Good

28:31

A quince.com/rob for free

28:34

shipping and three hundred

28:36

and sixty five day

28:38

returns on your orders

28:40

that sue you ince.com/rob.

28:43

Get free shipping and

28:45

three hundred sixty five

28:48

day returns. quince.com/rob. I

28:51

am drama of it hosts of Love It or

28:53

Leave It which is the number one funniest. We

28:55

can use a comedy podcast I host. Every week

28:57

we break down and mark the biggest stories and

29:00

politics and culture with comedians, journalists, politicians and celebrities

29:02

Have no idea whether they're Where else can you

29:04

find draglines? Couldn't a reporter Danny Devito renting about

29:06

we blurs and zoning out Been directed by giving

29:08

advice to strangers. Know where? that's where you can

29:10

find Love It or Leave It on Sirius Xm

29:12

Pandora Wherever you get your podcast. and don't forget

29:15

to follow the shows, you never miss an episode.

29:18

Of the. Apple

29:20

Card is the credit card created by Apple.

29:22

You earn 3% daily cash back when you

29:24

use it to buy the new Apple Vision

29:26

Pro or any products at Apple. And you

29:29

can automatically grow your daily cash at 4.50%

29:32

annual percentage yield when you open a

29:34

high-yield savings account. Apply for Apple Card

29:37

in the Wallet app on iPhone. Apple

29:39

Card subject to credit approval. Savings available

29:41

to Apple Card owners subject to eligibility.

29:43

Apple Card and savings by Goldman Sachs

29:46

Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch. Member

29:48

FDIC terms apply. for

29:57

just succinct first yes Yeah,

30:00

Sixteen Candles, then Breakfast Club, actually, which I

30:02

believe I auditioned for as well. Also,

30:05

obviously, did not get- Same, same, same, didn't get-

30:08

By the way, John, I don't think John Hughes

30:11

got whatever I was selling. Oh,

30:13

interesting. Interesting. I just don't think- I

30:16

mean, he made a lot of movies. I

30:18

was definitely in the mix, in the cut

30:20

as the kids would say today, and

30:23

my phone never rang. Never rang

30:25

for John Hughes. And I auditioned for the

30:27

Judd Nelson part in Breakfast Club. Huh.

30:30

Wow. Wow. Yeah,

30:33

you never know when people just

30:35

don't- When they're just, as you

30:37

said, they're just not buying what you sell. And

30:39

you can't- Thankfully, as I said, there was

30:41

a lot of opportunities out there. So I

30:44

got something. Yep. And Spaders in

30:47

that, obviously. Yes. And he's just

30:49

awesome in that. Of

30:52

the performances in that movie, that is

30:54

my favorite. It's kind of stunning, isn't it?

30:56

It's kind of- It's like, I

30:59

don't know what he's doing. What he's doing Spader. I

31:01

mean, he's- Right? I mean,

31:03

I did a movie called Bad Influence with

31:05

him, and it's one of

31:07

my favorites. And he's so- There's

31:09

just nobody like him. Truly nobody like

31:12

him. And the way he

31:14

looked in that, like with

31:16

the hair and the pursed lips and

31:19

the cheekbones and all, it was

31:21

just pop- Collars.

31:23

It's just amazing. No, it was just perfect. I mean,

31:25

at one point, he looked at me and said, I

31:27

think I got these teenage

31:30

asshole parts just nailed. Yes,

31:33

you do, Jimmy Spader. You absolutely

31:35

do. Oh my God. That's a great,

31:37

great impersonation. I

31:40

can see him saying that too. But

31:43

it was funny because I got along great with him. McCarthy,

31:45

Andrew McCarthy and I did not get along

31:48

back in the day. Me neither, by the way. Oh,

31:51

interesting. Oh, no, no. Andrew and I did

31:53

not get along together at all. But wait,

31:55

you guys did clap. Did you- Clap. And

31:58

St. Elmo's fire. And St. in

32:00

St. Elmo's fire. Holy shit, yes.

32:02

And, you know, and now,

32:05

you know, Andrew now has

32:08

this new documentary coming out. Yes.

32:10

Called Bratz, which he called me and I was

32:12

happy to talk to him. And he, like anybody

32:15

else, he's a, I'm a different guy, he's a

32:17

different guy. I love him today. Yes,

32:19

oh my God. We hung out, had a

32:21

great time. Love him. Love him. But

32:24

it's interesting, it's about projection because he

32:27

told me that he was already having

32:29

issues with alcohol back then, you know,

32:32

that it was already an issue for him. And so

32:34

now when I think about it, all the, he

32:36

was a very reserved guy, very quiet. Yeah.

32:39

And I took that to mean that he just didn't like

32:41

me, didn't want to, didn't feel like,

32:44

didn't feel bothered to talk to me. But in

32:46

retrospect, you know, he's a guy already,

32:48

you know, in this incredibly high pressure gig

32:51

of being an actor on these shows

32:53

who's already battling alcohol. Yeah. You

32:56

know, and I go, oh, okay, he was just trying to keep

32:58

it together. Yes, right, yes, yes.

33:00

And I just totally took it, you know, my

33:02

own insecurity has just made it into this other

33:04

thing. And I'm, you know, I'm mad about that,

33:06

obviously, you know, it's like the opportunity, but,

33:08

you know, take the opportunity now to, you

33:11

know, get to get to know him. Yeah, I

33:13

mean, and that's exactly what he and I have

33:17

done. And I, you know, look, all of those

33:19

guys and where you

33:21

call it the brat pack or the people,

33:23

even the people who are non-pack, it's

33:27

like, you just have

33:29

nothing but love for people

33:31

who survived that era.

33:33

It's like, look, those are, that's

33:36

our college. That's

33:38

our fraternity, sorority.

33:42

And that's what it is. And you're like, it

33:45

just warms my heart

33:47

hugely always, whenever I

33:49

see anybody from the

33:51

day like that. And, yeah. And

33:53

Anderson, I can't wait to see this document.

33:56

I haven't seen it yet. Me

33:58

neither, I'm looking forward. Did

34:00

you speak in it? Yes,

34:02

yes. We had a, you know,

34:04

that's what brought, you know... Did you say, Andrew, you're

34:06

always such a dick? Well,

34:09

no, we did confront the fact that we did not get along

34:11

back in the day, you know. I

34:14

don't know if that's going to be in the movie because

34:16

I don't know if anybody actually gives a shit about that.

34:18

Oh, yes, of course they do. I hope it's in. That's

34:21

great. Yes, I hope so too. But,

34:24

you know, we were all going

34:26

through our own shit at that time. And,

34:29

you know, we would get, I mean, again,

34:31

the stuff that was thrown at us at

34:33

that time, you know, it

34:35

was a less than zero age, you

34:37

know, of

34:39

just the expectation was, you

34:42

know, this incredible decadence.

34:46

And although, interestingly, I was

34:48

always kind of a nerd, so it

34:50

never... So originally, because I

34:52

wrote a memoir a few years ago,

34:55

and at one point we were going to call it, No

34:57

Coke for Ducky? Because... Amazing. Because

35:00

no one ever offered me drugs.

35:03

Because I think they just thought I was a

35:05

musical theater nerd, which I am, and I don't

35:07

do drugs. But I think people just sensed it.

35:09

They were like, that guy's a dork. We're not

35:12

going to offer him drugs. And that actually obviously

35:14

worked out great for me. But

35:17

at the time, it took down so

35:19

many people, you know. Yeah,

35:21

oh my God. I don't know how

35:24

you survive, because for me, you know,

35:26

I always say that, you know, people are only as good as their

35:28

heroes, right? And or, you

35:31

know, if somebody's having a hard time, you can

35:33

go and look at who their heroes are, and

35:35

you can draw that line. And, you know, good,

35:37

bad, or indifferent, my heroes were like, you

35:39

know, Keith Richards, Jack

35:42

Nicholson. And so

35:44

it's like just people fucking doing lots of

35:46

Tutski in the bathroom at the Laker game

35:49

living on Mulholland. And

35:51

Warren, you know, and with a revolving door. Oh

35:53

my God. So I was like, I'm going to do

35:55

that. That sounds good to

35:58

me. Because That's what it means. the

36:00

really be a movie star in our way is

36:02

is why might be like Warren Beatty I mean

36:04

to be like Jugglers Amadeus and and think a

36:07

job. They have a lot of good qualities but

36:09

died for. I've course pick. The probably.

36:11

Heard they're not that once and wrote it as

36:13

far as I could. Yeah,

36:16

you know, a bit. but the and

36:18

that's another thing at that are the

36:20

longevity of being. As you said, being

36:22

a survivor after. You. Know of from

36:25

way back in the day. You know

36:27

we we. There's something.

36:30

As some sort of survival instincts are

36:33

some face set of skills that we

36:35

still has to be upset that rican

36:37

occasional leads bring to bear arms to

36:39

make stuff that people are that people

36:41

enjoy but like also you're still doing

36:44

and I I just want home and

36:46

you I love that your us that

36:48

you know you're doing the more traditional

36:50

substitute in the the the A of

36:52

that Fox show the Up Nine One

36:55

one the Up and and when you

36:57

know which I have nothing but off

36:59

for procedural for our procedural because. The

37:02

guy know how hard they are, they

37:04

are and you're awesome But also like

37:06

the Liberace movie I was like holy

37:08

shit you know her arms that he

37:11

said that you know where were you

37:13

know a that you can still. A

37:16

surprise people in that way to

37:18

is just fucking awesome. Ah you

37:20

know, And. I just

37:22

you know that's what I attribute

37:24

your longevity to. You know I'm

37:26

is not just the handsome. Ah,

37:29

Has plenty of handsome people. Don't work forever in

37:32

this business, but it's like you you come up

37:34

with a new way to do something and I

37:36

think that's. That. Them Amazing! No thanks

37:38

man. I mean and look for. And.

37:41

Were only as good as opportunities and that

37:43

was just a great you know Soderbergh phone

37:45

call out of the blue and. It's

37:48

it's I will tell you. You

37:50

have a huge body of work at We.

37:52

I've gotta be buddy were it but there

37:54

are certain parts like that. Price: Three I

37:56

four seats. For. Yeah.

37:58

I've never, ever, ever

38:00

gotten more

38:02

lift for anything

38:06

than that. Yeah, you

38:08

know, you never know. You never know what the thing is. You

38:12

never... It's going to be the thing

38:14

that resonates with people. You never, you

38:16

never, ever know. Oh, so

38:19

you auditioned for CinElmo's fire? I

38:21

did, in fact, and that got very... Oh,

38:23

that was full of drama, I recall. Oh, let's hear

38:25

it. Because

38:27

the director, Joel Schumacher, who

38:30

was, at least in the auditions, was

38:32

lovely beyond belief. I

38:36

don't know what he was like to work with. Amazing.

38:39

Yeah, it's so lovely and giving and really

38:41

just you felt like, wow, he wants you

38:43

to be, to give the

38:45

best possible audition you can do. And that's

38:47

really incredibly valuable. Everybody feels like, you know,

38:49

you go into an audition and it's going

38:51

to be Simon Cowell judging you

38:53

partially. And that happens sometimes, but

38:56

it's actually, thankfully, fairly

38:58

rare. Usually everybody wants you

39:00

to succeed. And Joel Schumacher was that

39:02

in spades. I mean, he was just

39:04

so helpful. But he put me in a little

39:06

bit of a bind. And

39:09

it was also Lauren Schuller producing

39:11

that. Oh, yes. Who had

39:13

done Pretty in Pink, who had just finished, or

39:16

actually not long prior to that, had

39:18

finished Pretty in Pink. And

39:21

I came in and I read the part that

39:23

eventually went to Andrew McCarthy. And

39:26

they said, well, just so you know, we

39:29

loved Demi Moore, who I had

39:31

done my one of my first,

39:34

my second, technically, movie with. And

39:36

they said, you know, where is she at? Because

39:39

we'd love to hire her for this troubled

39:41

character. And I said, well, I 100 percent

39:46

fell in love with her while we were

39:48

shooting. But

39:50

she also 100 percent is that troubled

39:52

character. You know, and,

39:57

you know, I don't want to, you know, she

39:59

had she had. She has since then

40:02

come forward to say she was having

40:04

a serious cocaine issue at the time and all that stuff

40:06

and going through a lot of stuff that a lot of

40:08

us were going through at the time. But

40:11

I felt like I didn't want her to not get

40:13

the part because of me because I actually thought she'd

40:16

be fantastic. But I

40:18

also wanted to be honest with them as filmmakers

40:20

that she's got an issue, you know, and

40:23

you're going to have to deal with that in some way. And

40:25

I heard later that they did. I mean, you

40:27

went through the whole thing. You know, I

40:29

don't know what that was like for you. I

40:32

remember I met Joel the

40:34

same day that Demi came in. And

40:37

I'll never forget being on the Warner Brothers lot that

40:39

you know well and headed to

40:42

the office, looking for the office to find Joel's

40:44

office and seeing this

40:46

vision walk out

40:48

into the between the sound stages.

40:51

The sun was backlighting her hair.

40:53

She had at that time

40:55

she had like almost

40:57

strawberry reddish blonde hair and

41:00

her long hair but pulled up

41:02

over and surrounding a straw

41:04

hat. I've never seen that before since. I

41:07

don't know what that was. And

41:10

I was like, who is that person? And halfway through

41:12

my meeting with Joel, he goes, I'm going to bring

41:14

this other actress that I'm seeing Demi.

41:16

And it was it was her. And

41:21

we from that moment were

41:24

kind of inseparable for like the

41:26

next two weeks. Oh, gosh,

41:28

okay. And and and there was a lot

41:30

of fun going on. Yeah,

41:33

so you know, she's one of the most fun one of

41:35

the fun certainly back in the day. Yeah, yeah. And they

41:37

did and they and Demi talks about they were like, you

41:39

got to get it together. And she

41:41

did. And she was the first and I and

41:43

I give her she was a total

41:45

inspiration for me because she got

41:47

sober. And I'd never seen anyone get

41:49

sober. I didn't know I didn't know anything about

41:51

it, how you could do it never occurred to me. What

41:54

thought it was but whatever I thought about it, watching

41:56

Demi do it was the inspiration when

41:59

I finally. decided that I was done. I

42:01

was like, if Demi can do it, maybe I can

42:03

do it. Wow. And

42:06

so, but it started right there with St. Elmo's

42:08

Fire with them going, hey, you got it, you

42:10

got to get it together. And she did. Wow.

42:13

That's, yeah, because I had a similar thing,

42:16

not quite the same, but when she and

42:18

I were cast in North Memorial Fair, we

42:21

were together like magnets. And

42:24

I had two of the most fun weeks of

42:26

my life just going around Los Angeles with her

42:28

and, you know, and being a

42:30

part of her life. And the hair thing,

42:32

yeah, she would tuck her hair up into

42:34

the band of a hat. Yes. And

42:37

I remember I was doing Torch

42:39

Song Trilogy at the time with Harvey Fierstein

42:42

and he met her and he said, who's the

42:44

girl with the hairy hat? And

42:50

but, you know, she was like one of those

42:52

unforgettable people, you know, and you can see why

42:55

she gets cast and stuff is because, you know,

42:57

when she walks through the room, you don't forget

42:59

it. No, no, they don't. They don't make

43:01

them like that anymore. She's truly

43:04

the voice, the looks, the talent, all of it. She's

43:06

the whole, she's the real thing for

43:08

sure. Yeah. And it was interesting because on no small

43:10

affair, she was really, it was her first kind of

43:12

lead in a feature and she was really, really

43:15

nervous about it, you know, and I, and she

43:17

had been doing general hospital for years. So I

43:19

just assumed she, she felt like

43:21

an old pro, you know, but

43:23

no, she had managed to be terrified and

43:25

I was terrified too. So I was like,

43:27

shit, we're both terrified. This is not good.

43:29

But, but

43:32

yeah, but I'm, but now how

43:34

was St. Elmo's as a shoot? Because it's like,

43:36

you know, many people consider like the Brat

43:39

Pack movie, you

43:41

know, it is, it kind

43:43

of, by the way, the best Brat Pack movie is

43:45

the Breakfast Club. For sure. Yes. I

43:47

won't argue with you on it. That is

43:49

like Head and Shoulders. It's like the Goodfellas

43:56

of the genre. But, but boy,

43:58

people do love this. They love

44:00

them some St. Elmo's. It was great because I had

44:02

the part of a lifetime I had. Um,

44:05

they wanted me to play the Judd

44:08

Nelson square preppy part. I

44:10

wanted to play, I wanted, and that's, that was what

44:12

they wanted me to, everybody

44:14

wanted me to do that. Joel, the studio, everybody,

44:16

I wanted to play the part that

44:19

ended up getting. And they were like, no, we don't

44:21

really see you in that. So I showed up drunk

44:24

to my meeting with Joel,

44:26

the Joel, the, the, the, the day that I met

44:28

Demi. I showed up with a six pack and

44:31

drank through the entire meet. I was like, Oh, you don't think

44:33

I'm a fucking wild man. Really? Here, try

44:36

this on for size. And, and ended up

44:38

getting the part and the rest. And so I felt

44:40

like, I don't know, you know, it's like

44:42

when you're an ensemble and you just, you feel like

44:44

you have the fucking best part and you can kind

44:46

of just run a mock. Yeah.

44:48

So for me, it was, it was heaven.

44:50

I mean, it was, you feel like, you

44:52

know, it's like, I, those times when you

44:54

go, I know that guy, I so know

44:56

that guy just turned me loose. Yeah. That's

44:59

a, that's an incredibly lucky feeling. Um,

45:01

and yeah, I, I, but that's, I, I did

45:03

not know that you were originally supposed to do

45:05

the Judd Nelson part. That's fascinating to me. Yeah.

45:07

I mean, it's, which is a great, which is

45:10

a perfectly good part, but I felt like, you

45:12

know, I'd been playing preppy. I

45:14

played a couple of, you know, the spade, you don't

45:16

want to go, you know, spaders got that lane covered.

45:18

We can't, we can't compete with spaders. Exactly.

45:20

You set the standard. Hi,

45:31

I'm John Lovett, host of Love It or Leave

45:33

It, which is the number one funniest weekend news

45:35

and comedy podcast I host every week. We break

45:37

down and mock the biggest stories in politics and

45:39

culture with comedians, journalists, politicians, and celebrities who have

45:41

no idea why they're there. Where else can you

45:43

find drag queens, closing Katie Porter, Danny DeVita, ranting

45:45

about leaf blowers and Tony Hawk being tricked, taking

45:47

the giving advice to strangers. Nowhere. That's

45:50

where you can find Love It or Leave It on

45:52

Sirius XM Pandora, or wherever you get your podcasts. And

45:54

don't forget to follow the show. So you never miss

45:56

an episode. Apple.

46:01

Card is the credit card created by Apple.

46:03

You are in three percent daily cash back

46:05

when you use it to by the new

46:07

Apple doesn't pro board any products at Apple

46:09

and you can automatically grow your daily cash

46:12

at four point Five zero percent annual percentage

46:14

field When you open a high yield savings

46:16

account, apply for the Applecart in the wallet

46:18

App on Ice on Apple Cards subject credit

46:20

gribble savings available Apple Cart owner subject eligibility

46:22

Apple Garden Savings by Goldman Sachs Bank Usa

46:25

Salt Lake City Braves member Ft I see

46:27

term Supply. Take. Care

46:29

of coffee drinkers. Ditching. Now

46:31

that's a bold, smooth taste of Duncan Called

46:33

coffee can be brewed in your chirag coffee

46:36

maker and enjoy it at home. Dungeons

46:38

Called Cake I Pods are crafted to

46:40

be brewed hot and enjoyed called and

46:42

of course they're packed with the Duncan

46:45

flavor you crave. Brew. Of

46:47

her eyes and sip and seconds. Because.

46:49

The home with so again as where you want to

46:51

pay. More.

47:00

You like? I've had some auditions for stop

47:02

That. It was like. Okay, I

47:04

know I am the wrong guy

47:06

for this. Yeah, but I gotta

47:09

take a swing like a I

47:11

auditioned for Blood Soon to play

47:13

the Seven Dylan parts. Ah, uneasy

47:15

that I see that. Yeah, And

47:18

and I'll get some neat Oliver Stone that's

47:20

kind of fun. You know he's and of

47:22

the maker, operating at the height of his

47:24

powers that the as point in this is

47:26

a script that everybody reads ago only said

47:28

the most harrowing things I've ever laid eyes

47:30

on. You know, Germany gets excited and I'm

47:32

but that audition I'm supposed to go in.

47:35

Ah, and. The

47:38

it's the scene when when bunny or

47:40

terrorizes a one legged Vietnamese guy by

47:42

shooting at him with a machine gun

47:44

on seas and I'm like okay I'm

47:47

in an audition situation. i

47:49

don't have a machine gun

47:51

or a while one legged

47:53

vietnamese guy i'm how is

47:55

this gonna go you know

47:57

by themselves ah you know

47:59

and I don't know what you do.

48:01

I mean you bring a you brought a six-pack

48:03

into your st. Almost fire. Oh, yes, but you

48:05

can't bring a machine gun in. No, exactly I

48:07

don't even I don't even want to bring a

48:09

pretend gun in cuz that just feels weird to

48:11

me Although should I have well, but obviously I

48:13

never would have gotten the you you raise a

48:16

very one of the great conundrums of Auditioning

48:20

which is it's a driving scene

48:23

Yeah, do you do you fake? Do

48:25

you fake the wheel? Do you do the

48:28

hand motion? Which

48:30

is really which is really lame, but then if

48:32

you're just sitting there That

48:35

just feels like you're in a kitchen. That's

48:37

not right either. No, it's not It's

48:40

like you have to make weird choices.

48:42

Yes I I Stupid

48:45

as it sounds I think two

48:47

things I use the fake driving steering wheel

48:50

Mm-hmm, and then Alison Jani Said

48:54

this to me and I think she's absolutely right know

48:56

it cold But hold the

48:59

sides in your hand. Yes. Yes.

49:01

I have heard that I have heard that Actually,

49:04

the biggest the the biggest thing that

49:06

helped me in auditions ever

49:08

was holding auditions I produced

49:10

a tiny no-budget movie and

49:13

I had to read with everybody cuz we

49:15

didn't you know We just the cheapest way to do it

49:17

was to bring everybody in and I'll read with them. Yeah,

49:19

you know and and I

49:23

saw wonderful actors who I had adored

49:25

just crash and burn and I saw

49:27

people I never heard of do great

49:29

And I saw people that I thought

49:31

were 100% I wrote

49:33

this for you and I would come in

49:36

and it would not be right, you know

49:38

And and it made me realize that an

49:40

audition can go You can't

49:42

be you can't be nervous about it because either you're

49:44

the right guy for it or you're not, you

49:46

know You're you're either it's

49:49

your day and this is the right part

49:51

for you Yep, or you can't force it.

49:53

So just go in and I'm

49:55

going swing at it. Try to make a good impression Say

49:58

hello to the receptionist on the way out You. Know

50:00

how am I am and and that's all you

50:03

can do. I was what is This is my

50:05

one time I get. I know that I get

50:07

to play this part. Okay,

50:10

yeah, I mean like that's what is. I'm an

50:12

opportunity. My part. I'm. Playing it today don't

50:14

have ah be played tomorrow. But. Today

50:16

I'm planet. Assistants and

50:18

year watson it's said he alluded to

50:20

watch it's to okay I need to

50:22

know about extended family does I wouldn't

50:25

know what being an executive producer. Is.

50:27

A whole. Other. Thing

50:30

so. I want to

50:32

know your experience and what

50:34

you like. Don't like learned?

50:36

whatever? Give me your. Insights

50:40

as to being an exec because he was

50:42

a. What's. The difference between

50:44

a producer and executive producer and

50:46

so that means you press that

50:48

matters is ebbing. You prefer the

50:50

money. And I do know though

50:53

have no, although sometimes it does

50:55

that. He had some incredibly elastic.

50:58

Institution being a producer. ah you know

51:00

it can be anywhere from I just

51:03

made a phone call you know a

51:05

I got somebody involved in this to

51:07

they needed involved in this to I'd

51:09

put up millions of competition right right?

51:12

arms? Ah and of. A multi

51:14

cam sick or you know you've performed

51:16

on them And obviously there there are.

51:20

They are their own kind of beasts. You

51:22

know that they're very old school but you

51:25

gotta make them feel press in L

51:27

C up and as their the and they

51:29

can be the most fun you've ever had

51:31

with a camera rolling right arm as you

51:34

do points, you know I suppose. So during

51:36

Two and a Half Men was it's incredibly

51:38

joyful experience. even though it got very dramatic

51:41

after a while. you know when it went

51:43

crazy and off the rails. The men's you

51:45

know we had to remake the show on

51:47

the fly and actually what was amazing was.

51:50

The producers and Patterson's started letting me

51:52

come into the writers' room. Ah once

51:54

we once we were turned a remake

51:56

the show. without with

51:59

ashton kutcher And I

52:01

got to see that process The

52:04

writers room process in a completely different way

52:07

and and that was just just amazing

52:09

to watch because the

52:11

level that that that these men

52:13

and women write at and

52:16

pitch at and It

52:18

was just Just you

52:21

know you you the amount

52:23

of technical expertise That

52:26

went into it was was kind of jaw-dropping

52:29

Yeah, even a show like two and a half men which you know

52:31

a lot of people was like oh, that's comfort food It's you know

52:33

it's you know it's it's Charlie Sheen

52:35

whatever You

52:37

know the the the the

52:40

I was so impressed with the artistry that that

52:43

the writers brought to it So

52:45

when extended family came up Basically

52:48

the way that that came together was

52:51

the the it's inspired by

52:53

the true Situation that the

52:55

the owner of the Boston Celtics

52:58

he and his wife share an

53:00

apartment with her ex-husband They

53:03

they call it the nest and if they

53:05

let because once she got divorced They

53:08

didn't want the kids to have to go back and

53:11

forth between two Apartments they wanted

53:13

the kids to just stay there and the adults

53:15

would go back and forth back and

53:17

forth to the different apartments and and Michael

53:21

Malley who's a wonderful actor and writer He

53:25

you know he they pitched him this idea

53:27

and he thought well This is a fun

53:29

opportunity to make kind of a screwball comedy

53:31

about people who have to make a divorce

53:33

work Right and so when I first read

53:35

it. I thought oh, this is this is

53:37

great pattern. It's great. You know it's it's

53:39

it's gonna You know roll

53:42

like a freight train. This is really fun Part

53:46

and and so I You

53:49

know we're all like you know I don't know if Everybody's

53:52

gonna empathize with you know the owner of

53:54

the Boston Celtics as one of your main

53:56

characters But you know hey, let's give

53:58

it a shot And

54:01

so Mike brought me on as a

54:04

fellow executive producer. And

54:06

it's fascinating because once you're in the room,

54:09

everybody looks at me like you were on

54:11

Two and a Half Men for 12 years,

54:13

you made that work. How

54:16

do we make this work? Yeah,

54:18

well, yes, yes, exactly. And it

54:21

actually, you know, doing that time in the

54:24

trenches and reinventing a show on the fly

54:26

because your main actor goes insane is

54:29

valuable experience. And

54:32

you really do come out of it with a

54:34

lot of thoughts on

54:38

how this can work. But

54:42

again, you know, making this

54:44

show from scratch is obviously a

54:46

completely different experience. Do you have

54:49

any Chuck, like there's a Chuck

54:51

L'Oriism that's been repeated

54:53

in writers' rooms that I've heard, and I can't

54:55

remember right now. Usually I'm really good at remembering

54:57

that stuff. And it's amazing. Do you have any

54:59

that you, Chuck L'Ori obviously don't know,

55:01

created Two and a Half Men

55:03

and Mike and Molly and he created the CBS

55:06

network. Yeah, what he did. And

55:08

yeah, Big Bang Theory. But he also

55:10

did Dharma and Greg. And you know,

55:12

I mean, he had this ridiculous, now

55:14

he's doing bookie for HBO and

55:17

you know, he did the Kaminsky

55:19

Method and you know, he's a

55:22

writer, a producer who is, you know, kind

55:24

of a legend in the business at this

55:26

point. He's incredibly prolific

55:28

and talented. And, but

55:31

feared also in the business.

55:33

You know, amongst writers, he's,

55:36

you know, a lot of writers

55:38

are kind of scared of him and have

55:40

some level of fear. And

55:42

I realized what, you know, and in

55:44

terms of the Chuck L'Oriisms, I

55:46

can't think of one either at this

55:49

moment that hits me as particularly pithy.

55:52

But he, but I

55:54

did realize why people, got

55:58

scared of him to some degree. and

56:00

how it has actually served him because

56:03

he gets frustrated when he has something

56:05

in his head that works and he

56:07

can't get it on the paper. And

56:09

he's like, there's a reason this, you

56:12

know, or if something's written

56:14

and he sees it in his head as

56:16

working and it's not working. And

56:18

he gets, and I can

56:21

see it. And so he and I never

56:23

had friction about that kind of stuff because

56:25

the second I got, okay, he's frustrated because

56:27

this isn't working. The second

56:29

that I got that

56:31

that's where he was, I didn't, you

56:34

know, for some other writers and some other performers,

56:36

it was very hard because you

56:38

could see his face darken and he

56:40

would get a little agitated. And, you

56:43

know, that, for

56:46

some people, is discomforting. But I totally got

56:48

where he was. So he and I worked

56:50

great together. I mean, I just totally got

56:53

what he, the nugget of what he was

56:56

upset about. And it's one of the

56:58

reasons we worked together for so long. And,

57:02

but the great thing about that is

57:04

that if you have this reputation of

57:06

scaring people, the network doesn't come at

57:08

you. That's right. And that's how it

57:11

served him. You know, he could just

57:13

say, no, we're just we're not going to do it that way, you

57:15

know, and it really worked

57:17

for him. There were there. There were very, you

57:19

know, that also keeps the number of rewrites down,

57:21

which makes it much easier for the cast and

57:24

the crew and the directors. You know, it, you

57:28

know, his writers are usually out by 6 p.m.

57:30

you know, on our new show,

57:32

you know, we're there. They're having

57:34

to, you know, sweat it

57:37

until, you know, 11 p.m. most nights because we

57:39

get a lot of notes from the network and

57:41

we got to we got to fix what they

57:43

don't like, you know, you

57:45

realize you're never rewarded

57:49

for if it's a jump ball creatively

57:52

for you. And

57:54

you give it to the network. There's

57:56

never a thank you. There's never a reward.

57:59

Never. They Never. I never go.

58:01

You know it's kind of the jump

58:03

on cancellation, but man. You. Guys

58:05

really played ball with us so we're going

58:07

to never, ever ever ever thought about it.

58:09

When it's a jump ball, take the ball.

58:12

Yes, you. Every line opportune

58:14

every time. Take. Yeah.

58:18

Emma You know that that's that you're

58:20

at one hundred percent right and and

58:22

that is what you learn after you

58:24

do the business for forty years as

58:26

like we have in another Us. I

58:28

mean that we got offered extended family

58:30

this new show on on and be

58:32

seats in which is actually still ordering

58:34

no twenty twenty two episodes isles. and

58:36

I mean you know wow that that

58:39

there you go Oh my god that

58:41

that that is an incredibly fortunate possibility.

58:43

I am been a leap on this

58:45

and I'm going to make this so

58:47

the very best. Thing if it. if it's

58:49

if I have to sweat it every night, if

58:51

we have to reshoot a million things if we

58:53

have this you know if I have to beg

58:56

somebody to be cast on the show like Rob

58:58

Lowe? ah sentences. you know if I buy a

59:00

I will make that I will. You know as

59:02

as you don't get these opportunities and when you

59:04

do you have to jump on. Twenty.

59:07

Two episodes man, that's they don't do

59:09

that anymore. They. Don't They don't and

59:11

will see him. And we did Thirteen. It's

59:13

first as his first season because of the

59:16

strike row. We'll see what happens next season.

59:18

But but yeah, but you know broadcast still

59:20

exists and it is. so you know they're

59:22

They're the only people still doing that stuff.

59:25

It's I believe I'm I'm psyched to see at

59:27

when when did you premier? is? It was because

59:29

everything up pushed with the strike is you premier

59:31

in the last month? We premiered

59:33

in December twenty third of last year.

59:36

So or right you know they were

59:38

putting promos on the football so much

59:40

that even I was like okay I

59:42

get it's yeah I'm thank you and

59:44

B C for promoting it as see

59:47

the greatest extent possible. But

59:49

dub. But. Yeah we we have

59:52

from your it on December twenty third,

59:54

right after of a playoff football game

59:56

and it's been. You know it did,

59:58

did, did did great. Everybody was pretty

1:00:00

thrilled with that. So we're behind night court

1:00:03

now. The

1:00:08

thing is time slots just don't matter the way that they

1:00:10

used to. No. Right. Because we're on

1:00:12

peacock the next day. So you can see the

1:00:14

show the next day. But

1:00:18

it's been a lovely experience working with NBC.

1:00:20

All these corporations have had to completely reconfigure

1:00:25

who they are because of the

1:00:27

streamers. The streamers have forced everybody to

1:00:29

just think in a different way. So

1:00:32

dealing with the new NBC has been

1:00:34

absolutely great. Well,

1:00:40

listen, I love that you have

1:00:42

a new playpen to play in.

1:00:45

And America needs its John Cryer.

1:00:51

All I know about it is I'm not watching television.

1:00:54

If I don't have John Cryer on my TV, it's not

1:00:56

TV. Something that is

1:00:58

not TV. Something that is not TV. It's

1:01:00

a service I perform for America. But I

1:01:02

also just put out a podcast. Obviously,

1:01:06

you are the king of podcasts. But

1:01:09

mine is a narrative one. But it's

1:01:11

also kind of fun because it does sort of play into because

1:01:13

it takes place in 1986. So

1:01:16

it is, you know, obviously back in the day for us.

1:01:21

And obviously, you were very involved

1:01:23

in politics. So you will this

1:01:27

will strike a chord with you. A guy

1:01:30

who made the documentary Active Measures, which is

1:01:32

a terrific documentary, if you get a chance

1:01:34

to watch it, he came to me and

1:01:36

said, I have this crazy story,

1:01:38

true story of a young guy who was

1:01:40

a public defender in Miami in 1986. And

1:01:45

Miami in 1986 was

1:01:48

Scarface. And

1:01:50

he's so he's a public defender, he

1:01:52

get his first job, his first felony

1:01:55

as a public defender that he has to

1:01:57

fight for is this guy who's been arrested

1:02:00

a machine gun and a silencer. Okay,

1:02:03

sure. It's

1:02:05

Miami. So

1:02:07

he asked the guy, dude, why do you have

1:02:10

a machine gun and a silencer? The guy says,

1:02:12

well, I've been running guns for the CIA. This

1:02:16

guy says, sure, sure you're running guns for

1:02:18

the CIA. The guy says, you don't believe me?

1:02:21

Here's the phone number, call this phone number. He calls the

1:02:23

phone number, he's like, whatever, I'm on hold. It

1:02:26

turns out it is the phone number of

1:02:28

the National Security Council. And in

1:02:31

fact, this guy has been running guns for

1:02:33

the CIA. In fact, he's been helping to

1:02:35

supply a

1:02:37

whole secret war that the Reagan administration

1:02:40

is fighting, called Iran-Contra. I don't know

1:02:42

if you remember that. I remember that

1:02:44

little situation. Yes.

1:02:46

So the story is the

1:02:48

true story of John Mattis, and I'm

1:02:51

the narrator of this podcast. It's called Lawyers,

1:02:53

Guns, and Money. Yeah. And it's

1:02:55

about how this young guy just got

1:02:57

pulled into this huge scandal that ended

1:03:00

up being one of the biggest scandals

1:03:02

of presidential history

1:03:04

in the United States. Oh, that

1:03:06

sounds amazing. Yeah. And it's an

1:03:08

absolutely crazy story. But

1:03:12

it's like Scarface meets the

1:03:14

in-laws, because it's also surreal

1:03:16

and very funny. Yeah. And

1:03:19

the crazy thing was, in researching

1:03:22

this story, Jack

1:03:24

Ryan, who came

1:03:27

to me with the story, has

1:03:29

discovered all these, first of all, a lot of

1:03:32

the whole Iran-Contra story, a lot of it has

1:03:35

come to light over the last few years that

1:03:37

sort of changes what everybody perceived

1:03:39

then, because it

1:03:42

turns out that the

1:03:44

Reagan administration had been funding the Iranians

1:03:46

for years, right when they first started. And

1:03:49

I don't know if you recall, but there was

1:03:51

a whole conspiracy theory about that Reagan had actually

1:03:53

paid Iran to

1:03:55

keep the American hostages there

1:03:57

until he was inaugurated president.

1:04:00

So that Jimmy Carter didn't benefit

1:04:02

from them. And that has

1:04:04

been something that people kind of scoffed at because

1:04:06

it sounds ridiculous. But

1:04:09

there's this increasingly growing body of evidence

1:04:16

that yes, that may well have

1:04:18

happened. So it ends up being

1:04:20

this huge, huge

1:04:22

story, this kind of epic story. It's called

1:04:25

Lawyers, Guns and Money. If you can get

1:04:27

it on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

1:04:29

to it, but it was sort of

1:04:31

truly, but remembering the

1:04:33

80s and

1:04:35

remembering how bananas the 80s

1:04:37

were. Dude, I dated Fawn

1:04:40

Hall. Yeah. That's

1:04:43

how bananas the 80s were. That's how bananas it

1:04:45

was. I mean, I know all about Iran Contra.

1:04:48

Oh my God. So wow. Okay.

1:04:50

Okay. I know you were trying to wrap up, but

1:04:53

how do you end up dating Fawn Hall? I

1:04:56

watched her testify at the Iran Contra

1:04:58

here. Riveting. Riveting.

1:05:01

And she was beautiful. Yeah.

1:05:04

And she was the assistant to Oliver

1:05:06

North. She's Oliver North secretary. Yes.

1:05:10

And I think I'm pretty

1:05:12

sure was also dating, I

1:05:16

want to say Daniel Ortega. Is

1:05:18

that possible? But the president of

1:05:20

El Salvador or his son or

1:05:22

something. Okay.

1:05:25

He's somehow connected. Oh yeah. To

1:05:29

the president of the socialist president of El

1:05:31

Salvador. Something with the, you know, it's

1:05:33

all, by the way,

1:05:35

it's entirely possible that I'm conflating Nicaragua

1:05:38

and El Salvador and

1:05:40

possible. But again,

1:05:43

those were all kind of considered of a piece at

1:05:45

the time. The whole secret war was playing out over

1:05:47

all of those countries. Yes. Yes.

1:05:51

Dude. Okay. So she's

1:05:54

beautiful. She testifies. And

1:05:57

how did I get in touch with her? I think.

1:06:00

someone said that they

1:06:02

ran into her and I said, did

1:06:05

you even get her phone number, did you? And they go, yeah. And

1:06:08

so I got her phone number and I'll

1:06:10

never forget, I had two numbers for her. I could call

1:06:12

her at her mother's house

1:06:15

or the Pentagon. And

1:06:19

I thought that was the hottest thing ever.

1:06:22

I could call a girl you can call at

1:06:24

her mother's house or the Pentagon. And I was

1:06:27

like, yeah. And

1:06:30

then being the total little dick that I

1:06:32

was in those days, like

1:06:36

our coming out party was

1:06:39

the AFI Lifetime Achievement

1:06:43

Award for

1:06:45

Jack Lemmon. And

1:06:49

I walked into that ballroom with Fawn

1:06:51

Hall, like

1:06:53

a week after the Iran Contra hearings.

1:06:56

And I am telling you now, man,

1:06:58

it was fucking

1:07:00

bananas. Yes, that's Bedlam.

1:07:02

That is Bedlam. Bedlam.

1:07:05

Now, yes, for the listeners, Fawn Hall

1:07:07

was accused of destroying a bunch of documents

1:07:09

that also hid because Oliver North was kind

1:07:12

of the architect of this secret war or

1:07:14

certainly the guy who facilitated most of it. And

1:07:19

so it was, you cannot imagine

1:07:21

a bigger scandal. No,

1:07:23

you couldn't, like, you

1:07:25

know, when you get, when

1:07:28

the biggest stars in the world are a

1:07:30

GOG slash

1:07:33

starstruck, that's

1:07:35

very hard to pull off. Yes. And

1:07:38

you, and Rob Lowe, did it. And well,

1:07:41

listen, it was my date, but she did.

1:07:44

And there's this beautiful photo online of

1:07:46

us like walking in with a, it's

1:07:48

like, she was something else. So

1:07:51

yeah, I'm definitely gonna be checking out

1:07:53

Lawyers, Guns and Money, also the title

1:07:55

of one of my favorite Warren Zevon

1:07:57

songs. Yes, obviously it's an homage. But

1:08:00

when you listen to it, you go, oh, okay, that's why they called

1:08:02

it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But

1:08:04

yeah, I hope you enjoy it. And and dude,

1:08:06

thank you. This has been so much fun. Yeah.

1:08:09

And I was been looking forward to having you

1:08:11

on. I knew it was coming up and I

1:08:13

was like, this is going to be great. And

1:08:15

it was you did not disappoint. This was this

1:08:17

was a fun one. Absolutely. What

1:08:27

a great guy. What a

1:08:29

guy that you know, it's fun when you when

1:08:31

you really get to spend time with somebody and

1:08:34

they don't disappoint like that's John Cryer

1:08:36

is who I want John Cryer to

1:08:38

be. That's really

1:08:40

the bottom line. All right. Just

1:08:42

one more thing before we end today's episode.

1:08:45

Let's check the lowdown line. Hello,

1:08:50

you've reached literally in

1:08:52

our lowdown line where you

1:08:54

can get the lowdown on all

1:08:57

things about me. Rob Lowe, three to

1:08:59

three five seven oh

1:09:02

four five five one. So

1:09:05

have at it. Here's the beep. Hi,

1:09:08

my name is Ashley Collins. I'm

1:09:10

from Indianapolis, Indiana. And I

1:09:13

was wondering if you

1:09:16

were to listen to one album of

1:09:18

any other is the rest of

1:09:20

you who have what you choose. Thank

1:09:22

you. Wow. Who boy,

1:09:25

oh boy. That's

1:09:27

a great question. Thank

1:09:30

you for that in Indianapolis. Thank you. Thank

1:09:32

you, man.

1:09:36

Well, here's I

1:09:38

think you want to rest

1:09:40

of your life. So here would be the

1:09:42

criteria I'm thinking about as I'm trying to

1:09:45

make this call. I think it

1:09:48

has to be by a songwriter.

1:09:50

The lyrics have to be great. You

1:09:53

want to be moved by the lyrics.

1:09:55

You want I mean,

1:09:57

I must say it has. to

1:10:00

be something you're never getting tired of

1:10:02

hearing. Oh, this is so hard. Is

1:10:04

it hotel California by the Eagles? Is

1:10:08

it darkness on the edge of town by Bruce

1:10:11

Springsteen? Is it running

1:10:15

on empty by Jackson Brown? Is

1:10:18

it pink Floyd's the wall boy?

1:10:21

That's so hard. Is it um,

1:10:25

and greatest hits don't count obviously

1:10:27

because that, that makes it a lot easier. Is

1:10:30

it Steely Dan's Asia? I

1:10:33

mean, I just, that's the

1:10:35

list. So then you got to figure out what's

1:10:38

going off that list. I, I'm

1:10:43

going to go with darkness on the edge of town. Bruce

1:10:45

Springsteen. That's my call.

1:10:47

He's my guy. Everybody knows he's my guy. It, there's,

1:10:51

there's emotion in it. There's inspiration in

1:10:53

it. There's pump you

1:10:55

up music. There's some ballads. Um,

1:10:58

by the way, Fleetwood Mac rumors would be on there,

1:11:01

but I'm going with Bruce. Thank you. Great question. I

1:11:03

could, I could debate this for 10 years.

1:11:07

Thank you. Um, thank

1:11:10

you for, for, uh, for listening. Um,

1:11:12

don't forget to give us a nice

1:11:14

little review on, on, on an Apple,

1:11:16

um, and uh, download the rest of

1:11:19

the episodes we have a rest of our season

1:11:21

and, um, tell a friend. And in

1:11:23

the meantime, I'll see you next week on

1:11:26

literally you've

1:11:28

been listening to literally with Rob

1:11:30

Lowe produced by me. Sean Dougherty

1:11:32

with help from associate producers, Sarah

1:11:34

Baguare and research by Alyssa growl

1:11:37

engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our

1:11:40

executive producers are Rob Lowe for

1:11:42

low profile, Nick Leo, Adam Sacks

1:11:44

and Jeff Ross for team Coco

1:11:46

and Colin Anderson for Stitcher booking

1:11:48

by Deirdre Dodd music by Devin

1:11:51

Bryant. Special thanks to

1:11:53

hidden city studios. Thanks for listening. We'll

1:11:55

see you next time on

1:11:57

literally. Apple

1:12:03

Card is the credit card created by Apple.

1:12:05

You earn 3% daily cash back when you

1:12:07

use it to buy the new Apple Vision

1:12:09

Pro or any products at Apple. And

1:12:12

you can automatically grow your daily cash at

1:12:14

4.50% annual percentage yield when you

1:12:16

open a high-yield savings account. Apply

1:12:19

for the Apple Card in the Wallet app

1:12:21

on iPhone. Apple Card subject to credit approval,

1:12:23

savings available to Apple Card owners subject to eligibility.

1:12:25

Apple Card in savings by Goldman Sachs Bank

1:12:27

USA, Salt Lake City Brave, remember FDIC terms

1:12:29

apply.