0:01

How often does Charlie cross your mind?

0:05

Oh, not as

0:07

often as you think, but

0:11

probably once a week.

0:16

Have you ever dreamed about him?

0:19

Not?

0:19

Since I've been an adult. I

0:22

think it's amazing that I'm a walking,

0:25

talking person, frankly, and

0:28

nobody gives me credit for that. The

0:31

fact that I'm like a normal person is

0:33

a miracle.

0:34

I'm speaking with actress Candice Bergen.

0:37

You probably know her best as TV's

0:39

Murphy Brown. It's a role that won

0:41

her five Emmys.

0:43

Which one of you turkeys got their greasy

0:45

fingerprints all over my emmy?

0:48

All right, too bad?

0:51

But her real life story could

0:53

be its own TV series, more

0:56

Twilight Zone than Sitcom,

0:59

you see. Candace Sperking grew up with

1:01

a rather unusual sibling,

1:04

and he.

1:04

Was always called my brother since

1:07

I was a little kid. It was like and

1:09

your brother, Charlie. There

1:11

was always such an aura around

1:13

him in the house. He had his own room next

1:16

to mine. It was a guest room, but

1:18

it was called Charlie's room. And

1:20

Charlie was in the closet. Oh

1:22

did he sleep in the closet. He would hang

1:25

in the closet and his different

1:28

heads would hang in

1:30

the closet. And he had a sleepy

1:32

head and an old head

1:35

and an angry head.

1:37

Yeah, for Charlie's different moods, exactly

1:40

without your father manipulating him.

1:43

He must have looked.

1:45

Dead, not dead enough,

1:52

he was always living.

1:57

The Charlie we're talking about is Charlie

1:59

McCarry. And if you haven't figured it out

2:01

already, Charlie was a dummy, yes,

2:04

a boy made of wood. And

2:07

Candace's father, Edgar Bergen, was

2:09

the ventriloquist who brought him to

2:11

life.

2:12

Well, I believe in letting a boy work for his money,

2:14

Yes, you approve. Man.

2:18

Listeners of a certain age will

2:21

remember Charlie as the ultimate

2:23

smart alec, usually dressed

2:25

in a tuxedo with a top hat and

2:27

monocle. And for

2:29

a time, this dummy was one

2:31

of this country's biggest stars.

2:34

Miss West.

2:35

This is the famous Charlie McCarthy.

2:37

Oh hello, shot up doctor handsome,

2:40

how tall, blonde and terrific.

2:43

He was like a head of state,

2:47

a minor state, you know, like Monaca.

2:50

Well he had his own coat of arms, right.

2:52

Yeah he did. He had a Charlie McCarthy

2:54

crest an, a scepter and

2:58

a crown. I thought

3:01

this guy must really rate.

3:04

Charlie was kind of like God him. Well,

3:06

he was to me from

3:09

CBS Sunday Morning, and iHeart,

3:11

I'm Morocca and this is

3:13

mobituaries, this

3:23

moment. Charlie McCarthy

3:26

September thirtieth, nineteen seventy

3:28

eight, death

3:30

of a dummy.

3:55

I'm so proud

3:58

of how weird and eccentric

4:01

my childhood was. Nobody

4:05

as a childhood as weird as me. I

4:10

mean, I knew a lot of people whose

4:12

parents were famous, and none of

4:14

them did anything nearly as weird as my

4:16

father.

4:18

Right, So, Nancy Sinatra, Liza

4:21

Minelli, Jane Fonda all

4:24

had famous parents, but they

4:26

were normal. They weren't living

4:28

with dummies.

4:29

Right.

4:30

We're going to continue with Kandisbergen's

4:33

weird and eccentric childhood

4:35

in Act two. But in this act,

4:37

I'm going to tell you the story of her father's

4:39

unlikely and spectacular

4:42

rise to fame as a ventriloquest

4:45

because there is no Charlie McCarthy without

4:48

Edgar Bergen. Edgar

4:53

Bergen was born in Chicago to

4:55

Swedish immigrants in nineteen oh three.

4:58

At age eleven, he began ventriloquism

5:01

from a book he'd purchased for a quarter.

5:04

At sixteen, he managed to

5:06

impress a touring vaudeville performer

5:09

known as the Great Leicster, enough

5:11

so to get a few months of free one

5:13

on one lessons in ventriloquism.

5:16

In my first year at high school, I discovered I

5:18

was a ventriloquist, and I earned my first

5:20

dishonest money answering roll calls.

5:22

From missing classmates.

5:24

In my senior year, I teamed up with Charlie.

5:25

We've been partners ever since.

5:28

Charlie was made to order. Edgar

5:30

had paid Chicago woodcarver Theodore

5:33

Mack thirty five dollars to

5:35

carve Charlie's head.

5:36

Well. My father based the look

5:39

of him on a newsboy

5:41

in his neighborhood in Illinois.

5:45

This newsy An Irish kid named

5:47

Charlie was around Edgar's age.

5:49

He inspired not only the dummies first

5:52

name, but also his appearance, short

5:54

red hair, high rosy cheekbones,

5:57

and big bright eyes. As

5:59

for the ummy's personality, he.

6:02

Was cocky and

6:05

smart and ambitious

6:10

for a dummy, and very confident.

6:13

How many of those characteristics

6:16

describe your father?

6:17

None.

6:21

Edgar tended to be taciturn uneasy,

6:24

and withdrawn. Candice describes

6:26

her father as stereotypically

6:29

Swedish. Charlie gave

6:31

Edgar a chance to break out of his

6:33

shell.

6:34

I mean he could say anything through

6:37

Charlie and he wouldn't have

6:39

to take the blame.

6:41

That is pretty handy to have to

6:44

have an id that you could just take

6:46

with you.

6:47

Yeah.

6:47

Right, and these are the things I want to be able

6:49

to say now. Edgar had

6:52

not been raised to work with a dummy.

6:54

He was at Northwestern as a student.

6:57

He was either going to go into medicine

7:00

or be a ventriloquism. It

7:02

was like.

7:03

Humph, it

7:06

was no to medicine, yes to ventriloquism.

7:09

And being a good ventriloquist meant

7:11

learning to throw his voice. And

7:14

for people who don't know, can you explain what does it

7:16

mean to throw your voice? What does that mean?

7:18

It means that you squeeze it from

7:21

your diaphragm and it gives

7:23

the illusion that your voice is coming

7:26

from across the room

7:28

and that there's someone at the door,

7:31

or that there's someone in the corner,

7:33

and you go, who's in here. It's

7:35

like a vocal illusion.

7:39

In its earliest ancient forms. Ventriloquism

7:42

was associated with oracles who

7:45

claimed to address spirits dwelling

7:47

inside their stomachs. By

7:50

the time Edgar Bergen was coming up,

7:52

those so called belly prophets

7:54

had become known as belly talkers,

7:57

a not exactly prestigious form

7:59

of entertain These were

8:01

the days of vaudeville, and for

8:03

a decade, Edgar and Charlie

8:05

played theaters across the country.

8:08

Luxurious this was not, and

8:10

yet Edgar would later describe this as

8:13

the happiest time in his career.

8:15

Yeah.

8:16

You would talk about vaudeville and you know

8:18

how getting on the trains and sleeping

8:21

on the trunks and just going from

8:23

town to town and it would be freezing

8:25

cold, and then it was baking

8:28

hot. But he he

8:30

loved it.

8:32

A typical vaudeville bill would include

8:35

up to ten live stage acts, running

8:37

the gamut from established singers

8:39

and comedians to novelty

8:42

acts like mind readers, jugglers,

8:44

and trained lions. Edgar

8:46

and Charlie steadily climbed the

8:48

ranks and eventually arrived

8:51

at the valhalla of vaudeville,

8:53

performing at New York's Palace

8:55

Theater. Wow. Yeah,

8:58

Playing the Palace was

9:00

the pinnacle, Alice.

9:01

It was the pinnacle we always

9:03

used to come to New York and he

9:05

would say, Candy, that

9:09

is the theater where your father

9:12

performed in Vaudeville.

9:14

And I was so

9:17

indifferent. I was just like, yeah,

9:19

right, Edgar.

9:20

It turned out reached this peak just

9:23

in time. Within a few years, Vaudeville

9:26

had been overtaken by motion pictures

9:28

and radio, and Vaudeville's over

9:30

and your father had to remake himself.

9:32

That's when he started

9:35

to make the break was when he played

9:37

the supper clubs in Chicago. I

9:39

mean it was very swanky.

9:45

The act was a hit in Chicago, and

9:47

word made its way west to a

9:49

very influential entertainer.

9:51

And Rudy Valley discovered

9:54

my father, and then Rudy Valley

9:56

brought my father to Hollywood.

9:58

Rudy Valley was a singer and bandleader

10:01

with a popular radio show.

10:03

Just Imagine the Dummy, and take my

10:05

word for it that both voices you will hear

10:08

are owned and operated by just one

10:10

man, Edgar Bergen.

10:14

Edgar and Charlie made their radio

10:16

debut on Rudy Valley's program

10:18

in December nineteen thirty six.

10:21

Why put a ventriloquist on the air. The

10:23

answer is why not?

10:25

True?

10:25

Our ventriloquist, Edgar Bergan,

10:28

is an unusual one, sort of Noel

10:30

Coward or perhaps Fred Allen among ventriloquists,

10:34

an extrous fellow who depends more upon the cleverness

10:36

and wit of his material than upon

10:38

the believe it or not nature of his delivery.

10:41

A ventriloquist act on

10:44

the radio.

10:48

This doesn't make a lot of sense to modern

10:50

ears, so can you do explain it.

10:52

To any ears? But it

10:54

gave him latitude.

10:58

Charlie Kuitski, Charlie could

11:00

ride horses, Charlie could climb

11:03

mountains. There was nothing they couldn't do on

11:05

the radio.

11:06

Wow, So ventriloquist act

11:09

on the radio actually had more

11:11

freedom, had more creative potential.

11:13

Yeah, it was more engaging for

11:15

the radio audience because

11:17

they were so un

11:20

fettered.

11:21

Let's hear a bit of the act from that first

11:24

radio broadcast.

11:25

Alcohol. It's nothing but slow poison,

11:28

is la. It's slow poison?

11:30

Is that?

11:31

So?

11:31

Yes, slow poison, that's what

11:33

it is. Slow

11:35

poison is Well, I'm in no

11:38

hurry.

11:38

Well, let me say.

11:43

That appearance was such a success they got

11:45

their own show. Well,

11:47

Charlie got his own show, The.

11:50

Makers of Jason Samblan Coffee

11:52

Bring You The Johnny McCarthy Show, starring

11:55

Edgar Bergen and Gnomy.

12:03

The Golden Age of radio was just

12:06

getting started. Edgar and Charlie

12:08

carroused with all the big stars

12:10

of the day.

12:11

Charlie, why don't you walk out on Bergen?

12:14

What's holding you?

12:15

He is?

12:16

His on air banter with legendary

12:18

vamp May West caused controversy.

12:21

Why don't you.

12:22

Come up home with me now, honey, I'll let

12:24

you play.

12:24

In my woodpile. Charlie

12:29

cracked wise with crooner Frank Sinatra.

12:32

Well tell me, Charlie, what makes you think you could

12:34

make me a success?

12:35

Well look what I did for Bergen and

12:39

Charlie fond over a young Marilyn

12:41

Monroe.

12:42

My dear, we were made for each other.

12:47

Just yes, gladly, all right.

13:00

Charlie had particularly memorable

13:02

exchanges with comedian W.

13:04

C. Fields.

13:06

My only laugh you ever got was a

13:08

sneer from a disgruntled termite.

13:10

Wow.

13:13

I read somewhere that WC. Fields genuinely

13:16

hated Charlie. Yeah, he probably

13:18

did, called him a flop house for termites.

13:22

Or all we only you're down to a coat

13:25

hanger. That was one line.

13:27

Around this time, Edgar and Charlie

13:29

began appearing in movies where

13:31

the audience could see them at work. Here

13:34

they are in the nineteen thirty eight Backstage

13:36

drama Letter of introduction.

13:39

You're not so clever e than mister.

13:41

Oh I'm not well.

13:42

I can see your lips move. Oh that

13:46

burns him up. You.

13:49

He was not meticulous about

13:51

his technique, really, because people

13:53

could always see him moving his lips.

13:55

Well, I was gonna say that. And why didn't

13:57

that bother people?

14:00

Adienk because they were focused

14:03

on the on Charlie and the material

14:06

was so.

14:06

Smart, and so the fact that you could

14:08

see Edgar Bergen's mouth moving a little

14:10

bit, it's.

14:11

A lot, Okay, I think

14:13

it was a lot.

14:15

It should be noted that Edgar Bergen created

14:17

other characters, the sweet but

14:20

slow witted Mortimer Snurd.

14:22

You don't get around.

14:24

Very much, do your Mortimer?

14:26

No?

14:26

No, I live with Grandpa.

14:29

You live?

14:30

Yeah?

14:31

I mean some people loved Mortimer, and

14:33

he had his own theme song, and.

14:44

And then there was Spitfire Spinster,

14:47

Effie Clinker.

14:48

You're not mate, No, I'm not No,

14:52

no, damn it.

14:54

No one, and

14:56

Effie had no interest for

14:59

me, Charli.

15:00

He was just not going to let these other characters

15:02

shine. No, there was just no.

15:04

Way, no, and they weren't as equal.

15:06

In nineteen thirty seven, at the height of

15:08

their fame, Edgar received an honorary

15:11

oscar for the creation of Charlie.

15:14

The statuette itself was wooden

15:16

with a movable mouth. And then the next

15:18

year another milestone of sorts,

15:21

Edgar and Charlie's radio show was

15:23

airing at the same time as Orson

15:25

Wells's infamous War of the World's

15:28

broadcast. You may remember

15:30

that that program led some listeners

15:32

to believe that Martians were invading

15:34

rural New Jersey.

15:36

And things stopped

15:38

in parts of the country. People were so panic

15:40

stricken because they thought we were

15:42

being invaded by aliens.

15:45

It only didn't end

15:48

life in America because many people

15:51

were listening to my father's radio show,

15:53

which was on at the same time.

15:57

Orson Wells later claimed that he

15:59

received a telegram from drama

16:01

critic Alexander Walcott saying,

16:04

quote, this only goes to prove

16:06

my beamish boy that all the intelligent

16:08

people were listening to that dummy and

16:11

that all the dummies were listening to you.

16:14

Charlie even met to US Presidents

16:17

FDR and Harry Truman.

16:19

Yeah, he met everybody. I

16:21

have an invitation from Missus

16:24

Roosevelt to Charles McCarthy

16:27

to lunch at the White House. I

16:29

don't know if my father was invited,

16:31

but Charlie is definitely invited.

16:34

This has really been a wonderful day for us.

16:36

Yet it has lunch

16:39

at the White House, pot luck with Roosevelt.

16:41

Yes.

16:44

By the time Candice Bergen was born

16:46

in nineteen forty six, Charlie

16:48

McCarthy was a megastar, coming

16:52

up after the break. A sibling

16:54

rivalry unlike any other.

17:10

Who Lizy, what is your father's name? Edgar

17:12

Bergen?

17:14

In nineteen fifty eight, a young Candas

17:16

Bergen appeared on the comedy quiz

17:18

show You Bet Your Life with Groucho

17:21

Marx.

17:21

Your father is Edgar began the Swedish

17:23

Nightingale. Yeah, well

17:27

then your brothers must be Charlie McCarthy and Motamus

17:29

name.

17:32

It was not good for Charlie when I was born.

17:35

Charlie was always competition for

17:37

me, and he always won.

17:39

When Candasbergen was born in nineteen

17:41

forty six, it was kind of big

17:44

news. Papers featured a

17:46

photo of baby Candace in her cradle,

17:48

lovingly surrounded by father Edgar,

17:51

mother Francis, and yes, Charlie.

17:54

The photo caption in the Los Angeles

17:56

Times actually read Charlie's

17:59

new can.

18:00

I mean it was. It

18:02

was an eccentric childhood

18:05

when we used to have breakfast, the three

18:08

of us, my father, Charlie,

18:11

and I, and we would sit at the table

18:13

and my father would put me on one knee

18:16

and Charlie on the other, and

18:19

he would have us talk to each other.

18:23

Were you actually talking

18:25

in this scenario you were on I was

18:27

talking, but my father was squeezing

18:30

my neck to cue me when to move

18:32

my mouth to start talking.

18:35

I find photographs sometimes

18:37

of me when I was like seven

18:40

or eight, and I am giving Charlie a

18:42

look that's like as soon

18:44

as my father leaves, I

18:46

am going to put a knife in

18:49

your rip. I mean, it's like I

18:51

cannot wait to kill

18:53

this thing.

18:58

Probably know him. She captures

19:00

their relationship more than the Christmas

19:03

photo that you took when Candace

19:05

was just three. There's

19:08

no other way to say it. It's pretty

19:10

creepy. She and Charlie

19:12

stand at the top of a dark staircase

19:15

in matching footy pajamas. Candas

19:18

is holding a lip candle while

19:20

Charlie, wearing his monocle, just

19:23

kind of hovers. Both

19:25

glare straight ahead, just.

19:29

About to push him down the stairs, just

19:32

on the cusp, and I'm looking so unhappy,

19:35

I'm scowling.

19:37

So when you say that you wanted to push

19:39

Charlie down the stairs or stab him, was

19:43

it that you were annoyed? Was it that you were

19:46

jealous?

19:46

Jealous? I was jealous.

19:49

Yeah, but killing Charlie didn't

19:51

really make a lot of sense, and not just because

19:54

you can't kill a puppet.

19:55

He was the head of the family. He

20:00

wasn't just a member of the family.

20:03

What was that like for your mother?

20:07

Such a good question. My mother

20:11

dealt with it with tremendous grace.

20:17

Francis Bergen was an actress and fashion

20:19

model from Alabama. Her

20:21

face graced billboards as

20:24

both the Ipana Girl for

20:26

Ipana toothpaste and the

20:28

Chesterfield Girl for Chesterfield

20:30

Cigarettes. She was only nineteen

20:33

when she met Edgar.

20:34

She met my father at his radio

20:37

show. She was in the front row, right,

20:40

and she had very long legs and she was sitting

20:42

in the front row wearing a skirt and heels, and

20:44

my father saw her legs and went

20:46

about meeting her afterwards.

20:49

Edgar, who had never married, was thirty

20:51

nine and a major star, and

20:54

there was a big age difference.

20:55

Yeah, about twenty years. He

20:58

was a very good candidate for marriage,

21:00

and she loved him.

21:04

They were married in Mexico in the summer

21:06

of nineteen forty five. And

21:08

do you think after the wedding, when they started home

21:11

together, she thought

21:13

there are three of us in this marriage.

21:15

Oh, very much so, and

21:18

accepted it. I mean everybody

21:20

accepted it. Yeah.

21:22

One of the crazy ways that the press participated.

21:25

There's an LA Times headline after

21:29

your parents get engaged, and

21:31

it says will Charlie let

21:33

Bergen wed. Oh gosh,

21:37

everyone was all in on this.

21:40

It's just really weirdness

21:42

beyond what should be allowed.

21:45

Before long, Candice began making appearances

21:48

with her father and her sort

21:50

of brother.

21:51

We go on my father's radio show

21:53

together. Obviously, Charlie was

21:56

regular, he was on every show

21:58

since it was the Charlie Courthy

22:00

Show. But I would go on and

22:02

we would compete with each other for

22:05

my father's attention.

22:07

Tonight, Charlly. Tonight, my little

22:09

daughter Candy is going to be on this

22:11

show. Yeah,

22:14

and that's why I'm so happy, you know, she

22:18

she's the apple of my eyes. Yes

22:20

I know, but don't forget buster. I'm

22:23

the cabbage of the bank book.

22:24

Yes, Candace

22:28

was just nine years old in this radio

22:30

show appearance, and it seems

22:32

like her father is stoking the rivalry.

22:35

Candy, my my own

22:38

little Candy. Oh Jesus,

22:43

yes, tonight tonight, my heart

22:45

is full of joy. Tonight my

22:47

little girl steps out into

22:49

the footlights of life down

22:52

down ply

22:56

Snoke. She's getting laughs too,

22:59

watching Kidrin. There's only one

23:01

star on this show. Just remember that.

23:04

Candice was living in Charlie's shadow,

23:06

but so was her father.

23:08

But I want to be on the show, Charlie. I

23:10

want to be just like daddy. Oh no, ambitionary.

23:17

I remember that dialogue. I guess

23:20

he was a real smartness on some

23:22

level.

23:22

Did you love Charlie?

23:27

No?

23:27

But I felt connected

23:31

to him sometimes uncomfortably

23:34

connected to him. There were moments

23:36

when I liked him. It depended on my

23:38

father, because you know, my

23:41

father was the guy behind

23:43

him.

23:44

Did Charlie make it more

23:46

difficult for you to get close to your father,

23:49

Did it seem that way.

23:51

I spent less time with my father

23:54

when he was with Charlie because

23:57

he was working with Charlie, and so

23:59

Charlie always go with him

24:01

in the car in his trunk.

24:04

But I was just jealous of the time.

24:07

I think the time and the importance

24:09

he was so important.

24:13

Candice relished the one on one

24:15

time with her father that she did get.

24:17

We'd go fishing, we'd go in his

24:20

plane. He'd put phone books

24:22

on the seat for me and I'd get to fly.

24:25

We'd go to Palm Springs and we'd

24:27

we'd just have like little trips together.

24:30

That was just the two of us without Charlie.

24:33

Yeah, no Charlie, Charlie

24:35

free zone.

24:35

Yeah, Charlie free zone and mother

24:38

free zone.

24:39

Was just us.

24:41

That's pretty special. Can

24:44

I ask you, do you remember the first time

24:47

that you said I love you to your father.

24:53

I don't know that I ever did, because

24:56

I never heard it from him.

25:00

Think I

25:04

think it was and my mother too. It

25:07

was a big struggle for me because

25:09

I had to, like because

25:12

I wanted to hear it from my parents

25:14

so much. I'm

25:16

sure I probably forced

25:19

my father to say it some way

25:22

when I was older, like thirteen

25:24

or fourteen when I got into that sticky

25:27

age. But and

25:30

I dimly remember

25:32

him saying yes, well I love you to him,

25:36

it's like, okay, can we move on now.

25:40

When Candace was fifteen, her

25:42

brother Chris was born, and this

25:45

was an actual flesh and blood brother. And

25:48

you just loved your little brother.

25:50

I did. And we're still very very

25:52

close. Yeah, except he's six ' three

25:54

now, so he's not a little brother

25:56

anymore.

25:58

By this time, Candace was becoming more

26:00

and more comfortable in the spotlight.

26:03

At eighteen, she appeared on the TV program

26:05

The Hollywood Palace, hosted

26:07

by Purl Lives Edgar.

26:09

I hope you won't mind if I tell the book something

26:11

about the lovely young girl who appeared in your

26:13

act. Ladies and gentlemen,

26:16

That charming young lady and Edgar's

26:18

act was his eighteen year old daughter

26:21

Ken look out.

26:26

Ahire you gentlemen.

26:29

Isn't she beautiful?

26:30

Well?

26:31

Thank you, Charlie, just

26:33

my love.

26:34

She has to be my sister.

26:37

Oh gosh, it was the family

26:39

business, Yes, it was.

26:42

Very much so.

26:43

Do you think your father was

26:45

ever resentful of Charlie?

26:47

Well, I think he created a monster

26:50

everybody wanted Charlie and

26:52

they didn't want my father.

26:54

Edgar's dream was to appear in

26:56

movie musicals.

26:57

My father did a few things by himself,

27:00

but really Charlie was the

27:02

draw. My father had

27:04

to fight to get billing above

27:07

Charlie. On the radio show, it

27:09

was always the Charlie McCarthy Show with

27:11

Edgar Bergen.

27:14

There's a quote where your father

27:16

said at one point, Charlie is famous and

27:19

I am the forgotten man. Yeah,

27:22

did he mean that seriously?

27:24

Yeah?

27:26

I don't think he would have admitted it, but

27:28

yeah,

27:31

Charlie just stole his thunder.

27:35

On the other side of the break, A father's

27:38

star wanes as his daughter's

27:40

star rises. Ladies

27:44

and ten. In

27:58

nineteen sixty five, ventriloquist

28:01

Edgar Bergen and his daughter Candice

28:03

Bergen, then aged nineteen, appeared

28:06

on the game show What's My Line.

28:08

There's an ease and warmth between

28:10

the two of them, but their careers

28:13

were moving in different directions.

28:15

Look Magazine said it, and today The New York Daily

28:17

News had a wonderful piece about Candy's is.

28:19

One of the great stars of the future

28:21

in the American cinema.

28:23

Right in the.

28:25

Right but as the stars of the past,

28:27

right, and your father says kind

28:30

of under his breath, and

28:32

I'm a star of the past.

28:34

Well it's true. Yeah.

28:37

Edgar and Charlie's hugely popular

28:40

radio shows ran for nearly two decades

28:43

until nineteen fifty six, but by the

28:45

nineteen sixties the novelty

28:47

of their act had long since faded.

28:50

Was that period hard for your father when

28:53

Charlie became less popular and people just didn't

28:55

care?

28:56

Well, Charlie becoming less popular? Was

28:58

my father also becoming less popular

29:00

and he'd

29:04

also he'd aged out.

29:06

That happens to all of us.

29:09

Well, we're still getting a lot of work. But

29:13

Kandasbergen has been a star for

29:16

six decades. Her rise

29:18

started back in the nineteen sixties.

29:20

Snobbish, fierce, contradictory,

29:22

and controversial. I'm Kandisbergen,

29:25

who portrays Lacky in The.

29:26

Group, That's

29:29

Candice and the trailer for the nineteen sixty

29:31

six movie The Group her screen

29:34

debut. By that time, she'd

29:36

had success as a fashion model. At

29:38

twenty one, she landed on the cover of Vogue,

29:41

Working both sides of the camera. She pursued

29:44

a career as a photojournalist in

29:46

tandem with acting, and in nineteen

29:48

seventy one, she starred opposite

29:51

Jack Nicholson in Carnal Knowledge.

29:54

Bo Are you really something? I

29:58

don't feel like something. I

30:01

feel like nothing.

30:03

Her performance in the movie Starting

30:05

Over earned her an Academy Award nomination.

30:08

On TV, she hosted Saturday

30:11

Night Live in its inaugural season

30:13

and made history.

30:15

I am very happy to be here tonight. I

30:17

am also especially happy to be here and

30:19

Saturday Night's first woman host. This

30:25

may not make up for the era vote the

30:27

other day, but at least did something.

30:31

While her father was a traditional Republican,

30:34

Candace campaigned for Democratic presidential

30:37

candidate George McGovern. She

30:39

associated with and supported activists

30:42

like Abbi Hoffman. She was arrested

30:44

at an anti war sit in. By

30:47

the early nineteen seventies, Candace

30:49

was a lot more than the daughter of a ventriloquest

30:52

What was that like? Do you think for your

30:54

father when he went

30:57

from being Edgar Bergen too being Candasan's

31:00

father.

31:03

It was an adjustment for people

31:05

in our house, for I

31:07

mean for my mother, for my father, for

31:13

I think he was proud of me, But at

31:16

the same time, I'm sure

31:18

he was very

31:20

mixed about it.

31:23

Meanwhile, Charlie was spending

31:25

most of his time in a trunk, pulled

31:28

out only occasionally to play small

31:30

stages or conventions. Edgar

31:33

himself had aged into an emeritus

31:35

figure. Johnny Carson, who'd

31:38

gotten his start as a magician, was

31:40

a longtime fan of Edgar Bergins

31:42

and had him on his show. Watching

31:45

Edgar on The Tonight Show in nineteen seventy

31:47

seven without his scene partner

31:49

is bittersweet. They always

31:51

said.

31:51

The venture was basically, remember

31:54

when they were talking about you, that you were a shy man,

31:56

and you use Charlie and more just

31:59

to sayings. But they

32:01

feel more comfortable saying than you would if you said them.

32:04

Is there any truth to that?

32:05

I mean, you can be I guess.

32:06

I hate to admit it, but I guess it certainly

32:08

is.

32:09

Because I wish I could walk into a room

32:11

and be accepted as readily as Charlie

32:13

and martinmer.

32:14

I've tried it and it doesn't work. I'm

32:17

just no. In

32:20

September nineteen seventy eight, nearly

32:23

sixty years after the act was born,

32:26

Edgar Bergen and his Wooden sidekick,

32:28

convened a press conference in Los Angeles,

32:31

to announce their retirement. Here's

32:33

Charlie addressing reporters.

32:35

I just am not going to admit it my last

32:38

performance.

32:39

I'm going to keep hoping you

32:41

you.

32:41

Take your pills and we can do

32:43

it through benefits anyway.

32:45

They would play one final two week

32:47

engagement at Caesar's Palace in

32:49

Las Vegas. Do you remember your father's

32:52

farewell performances at Caesar's Palace?

32:55

What was that like? It

32:57

was very emotional.

33:01

In fact, I can't

33:03

believe I'm getting emotional

33:05

now thinking about it. He

33:09

was dressed in his white

33:12

tie and tails, which he never

33:14

usually performed in.

33:16

Candace, her mother, Frances, and

33:19

her brother Chris were all there on

33:21

opening night.

33:22

We were in a bonkhead

33:24

in front of him, and it was so

33:27

emotional for us.

33:32

Edgar and Charlie snapped back into

33:34

the old routines as if they'd

33:36

never stopped doing them. Candace

33:38

says that despite his recent hospitalization,

33:41

her father's performance was flawless,

33:44

and he wrote that you looked over and you saw

33:46

your mother was mouthing the words.

33:49

Yeah, she'd heard them all so

33:51

many times, and

33:53

he used old material,

33:57

but he made it fresh. And

34:00

we went backstage afterward and

34:04

I just talked him. I'm

34:07

surprised at how

34:11

much it's effectively.

34:13

Was he surprised at the turnout

34:15

that that people wanted to see him off

34:18

because he.

34:18

Had it had been it had been

34:21

tough year for that lean

34:23

years. Yeah, he'd been

34:25

performing in really

34:29

p dunk.

34:31

To me, what's so beautiful about it

34:33

is somebody who does have these lean years and has

34:35

been performing this act for almost

34:39

sixty years, and

34:41

then at the end in this big

34:43

venue it's a big deal, and

34:46

that you all were there for it.

34:48

It was great. It was a great

34:52

goodbye for him to have.

34:56

And then he died.

34:59

Just three nights into the run. Edgar

35:02

Bergan died in his sleep in his Las

35:04

Vegas hotel room.

35:06

He began his career with not much

35:08

more than a block of wood and

35:10

his native wit, which was plenty. But when

35:12

Edgar Bergen died Saturday at age seventy

35:14

five, more than the entertainment world took

35:16

notice.

35:18

I remember his funeral. Carl

35:21

Reiner was walking in and he said,

35:24

I hope I can have a ending

35:26

like that. This for

35:29

a performer, that's what you want.

35:31

The Muppet Movie was dedicated

35:33

to his memory. Jim Henson

35:36

just worshiped your

35:38

father. Sounds like that was

35:42

very nice. He

35:44

spoke at the memorial and he

35:46

brought hermit.

35:47

Is that right?

35:52

It wasn't your usual funeral?

35:55

And Reagan

35:57

spoke.

35:59

There was of course Edgar, the

36:01

kindly and modest man. We all knew there

36:04

was never any cruelty in the laughter that he brought

36:06

to us. But there

36:08

was an Edgar Bergen who in truth was the

36:11

puckish, pixie like destroyer of the

36:13

pampas Charlie.

36:16

Johnny Carson also spoke about

36:18

Edgar's utter lack of pretension.

36:21

He was the most unpretentious

36:24

man, the most modest,

36:27

just again Swedish.

36:30

Was Charlie at the memorial?

36:33

No he was not, No,

36:36

that would have been too weird.

36:41

God.

36:45

Edgar Bergen left ten thousand

36:47

dollars in his will for the Charlie

36:49

McCarthy fund, but nothing

36:51

for Candace.

36:53

That was a bitter pill.

36:55

What do you think that was about? Why did he do that?

36:57

Well? He knew I'd left home

37:00

and was making money for many

37:02

years before he died, and

37:04

he knew I'd made a lot of money, so

37:07

I didn't need it. Of course

37:09

neither did Charlie.

37:11

And he owed it all to Charlie. I

37:14

mean it was Charlie's money.

37:16

Charlie was the breadwinner.

37:18

Charlie, of course couldn't actually accept

37:20

the funds. In fact, the money was

37:23

designated to be used to fund

37:25

Ventriloquist performances for

37:27

children in orphanages and quote

37:30

other such similar institutes

37:32

for destitute and handicapped children.

37:37

Charlie McCarthy relocated from

37:39

Beverly Hills to a new home

37:41

in Washington, d C. At the Smithsonian

37:44

Institute. Candice and her

37:46

family flew to DC to preview

37:48

the exhibit.

37:50

We were thrilled that we had

37:52

him out and taken

37:54

care of, and because it was

37:56

like, what do we do with him

37:58

now? As Charlie

38:00

without my father was like a thing.

38:05

Candicesbergn remembers staring

38:07

at Charlie on display, waiting

38:09

for a look of recognition or a wise

38:12

crack, but it never came.

38:15

Without her father, there was no

38:17

magic, the illusion

38:19

was gone.

38:23

Well, when we started way back in

38:25

those days, you might say we were practically

38:27

nobody. Yes, that's right. Why

38:30

we've come a long way,

38:33

haven't I?

38:34

Yeah,

38:43

I hope you enjoyed this mobituary.

38:45

May I ask you to please rate and review our

38:47

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38:55

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39:06

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39:13

of Mobituaries was produced by Aaron

39:15

Schrank. Our team of producers

39:17

also includes Hazelbrian and

39:20

me Moroka, with engineering

39:22

by Josh Han. Our theme music

39:25

is written by Daniel Hart. Our

39:27

archival producer is Jamie Benson.

39:30

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39:40

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39:46

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39:48

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