0:00

Hello, multi-amory listeners. This

0:02

is Dedeker. Coming

0:04

up in April of this year,

0:06

myself, along with dance and movement

0:08

therapist, Orit Krug, will be co-leading

0:11

a somatic retreat for polyamorous folks

0:13

in Costa Rica. If

0:15

you've been feeling like your brain

0:18

is on board with nomenogamy,

0:20

but your emotions and your feelings are

0:22

having a hard time catching up, if

0:25

you've been struggling to access feelings

0:27

of joy or safety

0:30

or ease or pleasure, or

0:33

if you're feeling isolated in your

0:35

nomenogamy journey and you just want

0:37

to kick back in a hammock

0:39

or go for a walk in

0:41

nature with other consciously relating polyamorous

0:43

folks, please consider joining us. We

0:46

have space for solo poly individuals,

0:48

for couples, and we do have

0:50

space for at least one triad,

0:53

but this retreat is going to

0:55

be quite small, so it's application

0:57

only. You can go to multiamory.com/retreat

1:00

for more information on applying. And

1:02

for multi-amory listeners, if you mention the

1:05

code multi in your application, you can

1:07

get a discount on the retreat price.

1:09

Again, go to multiamory.com/retreat

1:12

and mention the code

1:14

multi. The

1:21

Japanese have this great word, furukusai, furukusai, which

1:24

we would translate it as old

1:26

fashioned. What it literally translates to

1:28

is it stinks like old. And

1:33

I do think that there's a certain amount

1:35

of all this taking a slow discourse, and

1:37

I think the reason why it leaves a

1:39

bad taste in some people's mouths is that

1:42

it can feel like it's this old fashioned

1:44

thing that it doesn't really speak to modern

1:46

dating or feminism. I think this is something

1:48

that has often been used like a cudgel

1:50

on women in particular, punishing women if

1:52

we perceive that they have moved too

1:54

fast or slut shaming women if we

1:56

perceive that they have moved too fast.

1:58

And so, yeah. I think

2:00

that the.may a reaction that you can get

2:03

from. People. Also, if you're wanting to like, really

2:05

take a slow spread out your dates. That

2:07

some people may say that you stink like old.

2:11

Welcome to the multi emery

2:13

podcasts! I'm Jace. I'm analysts

2:15

and I'm that occur we believe

2:18

and looking. To the Future of

2:20

relationships. Not maintaining the status

2:22

quo of the past whether

2:24

you're monogamous, polyamorous, singing, casually

2:27

dating, or teachers to relationships

2:29

differently. To see you in her

2:32

here. On.

2:48

This episode of the multi

2:50

emery podcast we're talking about

2:52

slow Dating and slow Love.

2:55

We've. Discussed new relationship energy or and

2:57

Ari a lot on this show and

2:59

it's something that many of us go

3:02

through every time we find a new

3:04

partner And that head in the clouds

3:06

feeling may be excellent, but what happens

3:09

when it all comes crashing down or

3:11

when we over commit ourselves? Is.

3:13

Taking it slow the answer to and are

3:16

he was. Today. We'll be

3:18

discussing what slow love is, some

3:20

benefits and pitfalls, and how to

3:22

decide if taking it slow is

3:24

right for you. If

3:26

you're interested in learning more about our

3:29

fundamental communication tools that we reference all

3:31

the time on this show, you can

3:33

check out our book, Multi Emery Essential

3:35

Tools for Modern Relationships, which covers some

3:38

of our most use communication tools for

3:40

all types of relationships, You can find

3:42

links to buy it at Multi emery.com/book

3:45

or wherever find books are sold. Alternatively,

3:47

you can check out the first nine

3:49

episodes of this Podcast, which also cover

3:51

some of our most widely used and

3:54

shared communication tools. First. Off

3:56

I want to thank Dimona

3:58

Hoffman in episode. Four Fifty Six

4:00

we're discussing this slow love concept and even

4:03

bringing it to my attention. I was

4:05

not on that episode but I got to

4:07

added at and therefore I got to hear

4:09

all about it from her and have

4:11

you guys talk about it a little bed

4:14

and I was so intrigued that I wanted

4:16

to devote an entire episode Suez I think

4:18

right now when we are recording this

4:20

or kind of in the midst of break

4:23

up season. I. Know that I I

4:25

had a big break of with Shall

4:27

discussing and a later episode Better Girls

4:29

are my know exactly where I am

4:31

season all I know I know it

4:33

will insulin. My big break ups have

4:35

happened right around now. actually of my

4:37

breakups have that exact I'm really embarrassed

4:39

to say they never knows or insects

4:41

to it's around so predictable. And for

4:43

people who don't know, break break

4:46

up season. Statistically a lot of

4:48

relationships and between the New Years

4:51

Day and Valentine's. Uncensored. The other

4:53

Thoughts: Thoughts: That's when it happens And that's

4:55

when both of our said. So here we

4:57

are: But. Because of this,

4:59

some of us may be

5:01

wanting to get back out

5:03

there, wanting to enter into

5:05

new commitments, are new relationships,

5:07

and we may have this

5:10

urge to jump right into.

5:12

The. Next thing that you get excited about

5:14

and fall like kind of head over

5:16

heels for a person and while that

5:19

can be fun and awesome, sometimes it

5:21

may sort of overwhelm us in a

5:23

way that's maybe not as healthy as

5:25

we would want or relationships to look

5:27

like and to be. And so

5:29

I was intrigued to just talk about

5:32

the soccer about this idea of taking

5:34

it slow. Now have the

5:36

to have you ever really intentionally

5:38

decided to take it slow in

5:41

a relationship because. I'm. please

5:43

sir i have ends with a set of

5:45

necessity than than a very surprising to

5:47

anyone if i had i think with the

5:49

exception of would i just moved here

5:51

and was dating a ton of people at

5:53

once and none of those relationships were

5:55

really gonna go much further than just kind

5:58

of hanging out and having sex and

6:00

having a good time, my relationship

6:02

milestones have gone pretty quickly

6:05

when I've had long-term big

6:07

relationships. Now, okay, I

6:09

appreciate you clarifying, have I ever

6:12

intentionally gone slow? And

6:14

is the answer no? The

6:17

answer might be no. Maybe I

6:20

don't know. It is difficult

6:22

now to specifically look through the

6:24

lens of non-monogamy or through my

6:26

own practice of polyamory. It's funny because

6:28

back in the day when I was

6:30

first exploring polyamory, I think it served

6:33

as a relationship accelerator for

6:35

me, particularly because I think

6:37

I really perceived, oh my

6:39

God, like no one's going to want to date me. And

6:42

so anytime I did find someone who was willing

6:44

to date a polyamorous person, be like, oh my

6:46

God, thank God, this one person who's okay with

6:48

me, great, like let's just all in with the

6:51

investment and try to escalate as quickly as possible.

6:54

In my later years, non-monogamy

6:56

has, for me, I think

6:58

has some more built-in natural

7:00

obstacles that helps new connections

7:03

to develop a little bit

7:05

slower in the sense of having partners that

7:07

maybe take up more time. I think I'm

7:09

also in a time in my life where

7:11

I generally just have more stuff on my

7:14

plate that I enjoy. Like

7:16

there's more stuff in my life. There's

7:19

less of a vacuum where it's like as soon as someone

7:21

exciting comes along, it's like, yes, take up all this time

7:23

and all this energy. Oh my God, I have it all

7:25

for you. And now I think I

7:27

have less of that and it's a little bit easier

7:30

to want to go slow with somebody

7:32

new, if that makes sense. Yeah.

7:35

I think that I had a

7:37

few relationships that had a

7:39

more slow start that was not intentional.

7:41

It just kind of happened circumstantially that

7:44

way. But more

7:46

recently, just in the last few years, I

7:49

have had a couple where just because

7:51

of where I'm at in my life,

7:53

I kind of entered them with this

7:55

sense of I'm not

7:57

really interested in rushing into something or

7:59

over-conversing. committing, I want to just take

8:01

this slow and let's see, let's evaluate

8:03

where we are. And both

8:06

of those ended up becoming friendships,

8:09

one of which is like a very close friend

8:11

now, and then the other is, you

8:13

know, kind of more of a friendly acquaintance that I

8:15

might chat with occasionally. Neither

8:17

one of those went from

8:19

that slow thing into then later

8:22

a really committed romantic relationship. But

8:25

I do think that it means I get

8:27

to have both those relationships still. And

8:30

just based on looking back at the

8:32

past of similar situations like that where

8:34

it's been exciting, I want to

8:37

do a new thing, maybe I want to fill

8:39

some gaps in my schedule, I want to have

8:41

something exciting, I want to do something, I've really

8:43

jumped in quickly and

8:45

then later realized, maybe more

8:48

of a friendship type relationship would have

8:50

been better here, but it can be

8:52

really hard to pull that back and

8:54

that's only sometimes worked out. So

8:57

I do feel like I have some experience

8:59

with that, but based on those, I'm

9:01

like, yeah, I would like to do this more in the future

9:04

because my net overall game

9:06

seems to be higher approaching it that

9:08

way. Well, the internet has

9:11

a lot to say on this subject.

9:13

And every subject. Of course, yes. But

9:16

in terms of it being a thing

9:19

that people want to write articles about

9:21

and also a thing that

9:23

people like on Reddit want to talk about,

9:25

yes, this is a great thing to do

9:27

versus no, this is

9:29

a silly thing to do because

9:32

it's putting kind of arbitrary barriers

9:34

on a relationship as opposed to

9:36

letting it grow organically. That's the

9:38

biggest thing, and we'll talk

9:40

about this more later, but the biggest thing that

9:42

I see people being not into

9:44

this idea of slow love is the

9:47

idea that there are boundaries put

9:49

up on the relationship to begin with

9:52

that make it not go in a

9:54

direction that it may have had those

9:56

boundaries not been there in the first

9:58

place. So I don't know. I think that

10:00

there are pros and cons to that and that's

10:02

something that I definitely want to get into as we

10:04

continue talking about this. But first, let's

10:07

talk about where this term even came from.

10:09

Now the term slow love probably has

10:11

been around for a while, but Helen

10:14

Fisher is the one who says that

10:16

she coined the term in her book

10:18

Anatomy of Love. And

10:20

she was on a CBS morning show

10:22

discussing what this is and she

10:25

said, and I quote, slow

10:27

love is an extension of

10:29

the pre-commitment stages of love,

10:32

it began to occur to me that it's

10:34

caution. These people want to know

10:36

every single thing about a person before they tie the

10:38

knot. And then she basically

10:40

said that this was because younger couples are

10:42

terrified of divorce and want to make sure

10:45

that they have a solid partnership before legally

10:47

committing to one another. She

10:49

said, so I began to think with this

10:51

long pre-commitment stage, maybe you're learning a lot,

10:53

you're getting rid of what you don't want,

10:55

so that by the time you walk down

10:57

the aisle you got what you want, you

11:00

can keep what you want. Okay,

11:02

now what's fascinating to me though is it

11:04

seems like from that quote... There's a lot

11:06

of fascinating things about this. It seems

11:08

from that quote that we are equating

11:10

commitment with marriage. Yes, correct. Yes,

11:13

correct. Now that's a her thing,

11:15

not an us thing. Yeah, yes, yeah.

11:17

That changes the focus of it a little

11:19

bit because yes, I would agree. I think

11:22

that it is in the popular wisdom that

11:26

it's better to spend at

11:28

least a year or two dating each other,

11:31

getting to know each other, building a relationship

11:33

before choosing to get married as opposed to

11:35

getting married three months in, six months in,

11:37

stuff like that. Now, when I think

11:39

about the pre-commitment stage, of

11:42

course I tend to think about maybe non-traditional

11:44

markers of commitment. I tend to think more

11:46

about emotional entwined meant, for instance,

11:48

maybe where you're deciding to commit a

11:50

particular amount of time or

11:52

energy or future planning to

11:55

a particular partner. I

11:57

would have to agree with that, especially from a non-dimensional

11:59

perspective. Not gonna sound Points. By

12:02

it, I think that commitment is

12:04

going to mean something different for

12:06

different people. And depending on

12:08

whether or not you're just talking about

12:10

dating, if you're dating to potentially find

12:12

a mate to marry, or if you're

12:15

just dating because you're interested in building

12:17

a connection with a person and that

12:19

the can look a variety of different

12:22

was. I. Remember years ago I

12:24

was going through a breakup and having

12:26

a hard time and I was talking

12:28

to my mom about it and an

12:31

observation see made issues like. You

12:33

nice. I think it's okay to realize

12:35

this is gonna take you some time

12:37

to get over because the way that

12:40

you young ends she didn't say i

12:42

hear the way that you young kids

12:44

date now where you will often lived

12:46

together. Before. Getting married

12:49

she's like when you break up it

12:51

is like a little mini divorce. It

12:53

is a lot bigger deal than and

12:55

well if you weren't.attest to that. Yeah,

12:58

Yeah, absolutely. if you weren't that

13:00

entwined with each other. You

13:02

know not only emotionally, but also financially

13:04

and logistically and all these other things

13:06

and I think you know. keeping that

13:08

in mind. I think that. I

13:11

hate. I hate that Helen Fisher equates basically

13:13

that marriage is the only goal of relationships

13:15

and that is their success or failure is

13:17

based purely on whether you get married or

13:20

not or whatever. I hate that assumption and

13:22

as that's her whole thing and that's why

13:24

I don't like to talk about her very

13:26

much bus. But if we take that same

13:28

concept though and pull it back to. Like.

13:31

That occur was saying not just

13:33

emotional entanglement, but some kind of

13:35

more. Would. Just to go. Into

13:38

mining of our lives Like moving

13:40

in together Or like sharing a

13:42

cell phone plan or adopting an

13:45

animal or whatever it is, right?

13:47

Usually. Living togethers so the

13:49

common one people do that. if

13:52

we think about slow loves meaning

13:54

even before doing those sorts of

13:56

things i think that changes the

13:58

conversation a little bit Because there

14:00

could be some people who are like, oh, yeah, we moved in with

14:02

each other after we were dating for a month. And

14:04

you know, but we're doing slow loves, we're not going to get married

14:07

for five years or whatever. I'm like, you're not

14:09

being slow at all in any way right now. So,

14:11

let's just take the marriage part out. But

14:14

I think the concept of what she's talking

14:16

about makes sense of looking at how much

14:18

are we, I guess,

14:20

slowing ourselves down before we jump to

14:22

those sorts of entangling more decisions

14:25

that are harder to extract from, I guess.

14:29

Because marriage for so many people does

14:31

tend to be the sort

14:33

of goal that people do have and

14:35

it has been that way for a

14:37

really long time. I did want to

14:40

take a minute to just talk about

14:42

some statistics in terms of kind of

14:44

the state of marriage at this point

14:47

and sort of how we are taking

14:49

its flow in the fashion that she

14:51

was talking about in that quote. So

14:54

if we're looking at the statistics,

14:56

since 1970, the marriage rate has

14:58

dropped by 60% according

15:01

to a study by the National Center for

15:04

Family and Marriage Research. That's

15:06

a lot. That's a lot, a lot.

15:09

And kind of interesting when you

15:11

think about all your friends and

15:14

how many of them are married or not. Now

15:16

given we live in Seattle and

15:19

Los Angeles and maybe the results are going

15:21

to be skewed based on where we're living

15:23

as opposed to somebody in the Midwest. They

15:25

may have a lot of friends who are

15:27

married and who have kids and stuff. But

15:29

I did see on the

15:31

overheard LA Instagram account someone talking

15:33

about this guy they had

15:36

met who was 33 and he's like, but you

15:38

have to know it's like North Carolina 33. So

15:41

it means he has a wife and three children. And

15:43

meanwhile, like 33 year old guys in LA are just

15:45

learning how to cook a chicken breast. Yes. Exactly.

15:49

Yeah. So maybe

15:53

even higher here is what I'm saying in

15:55

like a place like Los Angeles or New

15:58

York or Seattle, but in the broad. spectrum

16:00

of America, 60% it is dropped by,

16:02

which is a ton. That is interesting.

16:05

Also, the number of women entering their

16:07

first marriage between the ages of 40

16:09

and 59 has jumped

16:12

75% since 1990. So

16:15

that's within all of our lifetimes. And

16:18

that's really interesting because I feel like people

16:20

even, you know, before we were born

16:22

like, I don't know, four or five

16:25

decades ago, we're getting married in their

16:27

40s, like that would be considered ancient.

16:30

Yeah, it's funny. What I love about this is

16:32

I do, I feel like I have some fuzzy

16:34

memories of the 90s. Well,

16:37

fuzzy memories of in the 90s,

16:39

in the 80s and 90s, this

16:41

scare statistic being tossed around that

16:44

your chances of getting married after

16:46

40 were really, really slim. Like

16:49

again, more of this pressure, usually specifically

16:52

on women about how you're going to be washed up

16:54

and used up. And so you

16:56

got to bag someone while you're still young.

16:58

Oh, I had men telling

17:00

me after my like early 20s, I'd be

17:02

used up and washed up. So yeah, I

17:05

mean, think of how many movies

17:07

and books are based around the storyline

17:09

of some woman worrying that she's too

17:11

old. And of course she's 30 or

17:14

something in this or maybe 26 in the story,

17:16

something like that. So I love

17:18

looking at this statistic and just that

17:20

that's not the reality that actually the trend

17:22

has been going this other way of like, yeah, you

17:24

don't need to be married. Not only is

17:26

it not the only way to be happy, but also it's

17:29

something you could do later if you want to. Many,

17:31

many more women today are also

17:33

having children without being married. My

17:36

mother was an early adopter of this one. But

17:39

I think that also means that people

17:41

in general who are coupled even are

17:43

having children without being married. So they

17:46

don't find the need to be

17:48

in a legal entanglement necessary to

17:50

have a kid, which I find

17:52

really interesting and something again, that

17:54

being born out of wedlock was

17:57

not okay. Not okay,

17:59

even in the end. the 90s, I think. I

18:02

mean, there's still some pearl clutching about that

18:04

today, just left in there. Well, yes,

18:06

but everyone can calm down. In

18:08

a study titled Courtship in the Digital Age,

18:10

which had a sample of 3,000 married people

18:13

in the US, researchers found that couples

18:15

who dated for one to two years

18:17

compared to those who dated for less

18:20

than a year were 20%

18:22

less likely to get a divorce. And then couples

18:24

who dated for three years or longer were 39%

18:26

less likely to part. Okay.

18:31

So again, we should be courting for a

18:33

longer period of time. Because yeah, I feel

18:35

like after a while, especially if you live

18:37

together, if you get married, probably

18:40

not that much is going to change. It's like,

18:42

okay, now there was a

18:45

legal entanglement that wasn't there before, but we've been

18:47

doing this for a while. We kind of know

18:49

how it works. But

18:51

I think it's worth noting the

18:54

significant difference between up to

18:56

two years or like the one

18:58

to two years versus the three years and greater,

19:00

how long you've been together. Because

19:02

as we've talked about before with

19:05

NRE, that just chemically your brain

19:07

is different for anywhere from six

19:09

months to a year and a half is what

19:11

they say. And so I do

19:14

think it's like, yeah, not only do you need time

19:16

to go through the

19:18

cycle of those brain chemicals changing

19:20

but also to go through enough

19:22

stuff, I guess, to really establish

19:24

enough so that that

19:27

getting married isn't that super jarring change and isn't

19:29

that, oh my gosh, I had all these expectations

19:31

about you or I thought this would fix our

19:33

problems and it didn't. It's like if you've

19:35

made it at least three years without

19:37

just having marriage as the goal to

19:39

kind of get you through not having

19:42

a good time, that you're more likely to then

19:44

stay together. I just think that's

19:46

really interesting. Absolutely.

19:48

I found on an

19:51

NPR Morning Edition podcast that was

19:53

discussing Americans' attitudes towards marriage and

19:55

how they are rapidly changing, they

19:58

had on a sociology profession. professor

20:00

named Susan Brown and she said, the

20:03

divorce rate in the United States has been

20:05

slowly but steadily decreasing since it peaked in

20:07

1979. But we're seeing a tremendous drop

20:11

in divorce among young adults in

20:13

their 20s and through their 30s.

20:15

And this has to do in

20:17

part with exactly what you're describing

20:19

that individuals are marrying at later

20:22

ages these days. They're more mature,

20:24

they're more economically secure and

20:26

this contributes to marital stability. Interestingly, where

20:28

we're seeing a rise in divorce is

20:30

actually in the second half of life

20:32

among people over the age of 50.

20:35

We refer to this as gray divorce

20:37

and actually one in 10 people getting

20:39

divorced today is over the age of

20:41

65. Wow, interesting. Yeah,

20:43

wow. A lot of other phenomenon.

20:45

I hadn't heard that statistic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

20:48

And I find that interesting too. Like that

20:50

almost to me just feels like, okay, I

20:53

have been with this person for a long time and I

20:55

want to try something else. Or I've

20:57

realized like, yeah, perhaps there are other

21:00

things out there in the world that

21:02

I want to explore or we've grown

21:04

apart to some degree after

21:06

a long period of time together. It could be

21:08

a lot of different things. But the idea that

21:10

divorce is just horrible and

21:13

awful and horrifying and so people

21:15

just are going to stay together

21:17

because that's easier than getting divorce

21:19

at an older age. I think

21:21

that maybe that has changed over

21:23

time in terms of the way that people

21:25

are looking at divorce and looking at the

21:28

later years of their life. Well, something

21:30

that Damona Hoffman mentioned in that same

21:32

interview was about how we're seeing many

21:34

more people within this age demographic

21:36

starting to use online dating

21:39

and dating apps much more

21:41

frequently. And so I think

21:43

that probably contributes to it too that if

21:45

you're at a particular life stage where

21:48

you're feeling like, well, I'm not thrilled with my

21:50

partner but I feel like dating at this age

21:52

is going to be too difficult. So

21:54

I guess I'll just tough it out. Might be a

21:56

little bit different if you have a perception of no,

21:58

actually I could leave the relationship

22:00

that's not really serving me and

22:03

not just have to accept, oh, I guess I'll

22:05

just be like a single spinster for the rest

22:07

of my life. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, probably

22:09

combine that with being a single

22:11

person being less stigmatized. Maybe

22:14

it just feels like, yeah, ending this relationship is

22:16

more of an option and maybe that's all it

22:18

takes for that just to feel like maybe this

22:20

is an option for me. So

22:23

I want to take a quick break

22:25

to talk about our amazing Patreon. We

22:27

have some really great discussions that go

22:29

on and relevant to this

22:31

last topic here, in our

22:33

Discord that's just for patrons, we actually have

22:35

a channel that's specifically dedicated to people who

22:37

are 40 and over because

22:40

sometimes the topics that we,

22:42

I guess I'm in this category now, that

22:44

we discuss are... Yeah, Emily and I are

22:47

not yet allowed to go into that channel.

22:49

You're not. We're banned for sure. You are

22:51

blocked from going to that channel. But

22:54

anyway, it's just a really good example of

22:56

how Discord lets us set up a lot

22:58

of different channels for different topics that then

23:01

people can find all sorts of different things

23:03

to discuss. It's so active that I can't

23:05

keep up with the whole server because people

23:08

are just always having all sorts of different

23:10

conversations. But there are certain channels

23:12

that are always the ones that I'll check every day

23:14

or every couple of days to just

23:16

see what the conversation is and join in and

23:18

that's so cool. If you want

23:20

to be part of that, you

23:22

can go to our Patreon at

23:25

patreon.com/multiamory. And for becoming a patron

23:27

there, you can do things like join our Discord

23:29

group as well as we have video discussions and

23:31

other things like that. It's a very cool community

23:33

of people. We're also going to

23:36

take a moment to talk about a couple of

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our sponsors for this. They are the ones who

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23:55

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keep doing this. So Thank you so much. Support.

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And. we are back and let's start

27:50

out by seeking out what is taking it

27:53

slow actually mean because this does seem a

27:55

could be subject as like you're pointing out

27:57

say so someone could be yeah i mean

28:00

it took us a whole six months before we

28:02

moved in together. And that could

28:04

be someone's version of taking it slow or

28:06

it could be, I'm going

28:09

to space out our dates with six

28:11

months in between. I don't know. Like

28:15

this could be quite subjective is what I'm trying to say. Yeah.

28:18

I think overall the idea is

28:20

that it's taking more time to

28:22

get to know a person, especially

28:24

getting to know them more deeply and

28:26

engaging in, I guess, getting to know

28:28

them as a person. And you could

28:30

describe that as like developing a friendship

28:32

first. I think that sometimes

28:35

saying develop a friendship first implies that

28:37

means we're not being physically affectionate with

28:39

each other. And I don't think that's

28:41

necessarily what people are talking about with

28:43

slow love, although that might

28:45

be for you. So I think

28:47

the important thing to keep in mind here is it's

28:49

about what this means for you. So

28:52

this could be those physical milestones like

28:55

kissing, holding hands, sex, sleepovers, or it

28:57

could be the amount of entwined or

28:59

the frequency that you see each other

29:01

like that. But also kind

29:03

of relative to what you might have done

29:05

in the past could be another way to look at it.

29:08

That it's slower than something

29:10

else rather than, oh, well, if I wait

29:12

X number of days, then it's counts as

29:15

slow. I feel

29:17

like the milestone of sex is

29:19

the thing that people wanted to

29:21

discuss the most on Reddit. Of

29:24

course, that's what it's always been, right?

29:26

Absolutely. But yeah, that question of

29:29

like, okay, well, do you wait until the third

29:31

date or do you wait until a month in

29:33

or whatever to sleep with a person? And

29:36

people wanting a specific best practice

29:38

in terms of you

29:40

need to wait this long to have sex with

29:42

someone. And so I don't know.

29:45

I don't know the answer to that

29:47

question. I would just take it by

29:49

how you feel in a relationship. But

29:51

sure, if you put a specific time

29:53

of I'm not going to have sex with

29:55

this person until this date or until this

29:58

many dates, then yeah. that's

30:00

a way to take it slow. Yeah, that's

30:02

so hard because it's really,

30:04

it's a really difficult call to make because

30:06

on the one hand, yeah, again,

30:09

I get how people can really have their

30:11

feathers ruffled by this feeling like, ah, you're

30:14

putting in some sort of weird arbitrary

30:16

limitation on when something like

30:18

kissing or sex happens. On

30:20

the other hand though, I

30:22

know for sure I have

30:25

slept with people where I was

30:27

like so full of hormones and attracted to them

30:29

that I could not see the red flags that

30:32

they were waving right up in my face.

30:34

And so sometimes I have wondered, maybe

30:37

if I cooled my jets a little bit,

30:39

I could have seen some red flags and maybe avoided

30:42

a not very pleasant dating

30:44

situation. But I think that I know I gave this

30:46

extreme example of putting six months

30:51

in between your dates, which I don't

30:53

think it's not terrible idea if that's what works

30:55

for you and someone's gone down for that. But

30:58

I suppose it could look that way because I've

31:00

definitely been in a situation before. I've definitely known

31:02

people who've been in a situation before where like

31:05

they go on a first date or maybe a

31:07

second date and they get really excited about the

31:09

person. And so then it's like, Oh my God,

31:11

when's the next free gap in my calendar? Like

31:13

see them as soon as I can see them

31:15

the next day and the next day and the

31:17

next day. Right. And that can be really thrilling

31:19

and exciting. And also intoxicating

31:21

when I use that word, I mean, both

31:23

the good and bad versions of intoxicated. Like

31:25

when we think about being intoxicated on alcohol,

31:27

where it can be really

31:30

fun and also very disorienting. So

31:32

it could be about really

31:34

intentionally choosing to integrate someone into your life

31:36

or into your daily life at a slower

31:39

pace instead of trying to have them

31:42

jump in to whatever gap is

31:44

there right away. And

31:46

maybe related to that, it could

31:48

mean trying to balance out developing

31:50

a new relationship with maintaining your

31:53

alone time or maintaining the activities

31:55

that you like to do solo

31:57

or time that you spend with. your

32:00

friends, you know, making sure that

32:02

you're still sort of maintaining the good things in your

32:04

life and the good relationships in your life. And of

32:07

course, that also means if you're non-monogamous, maintaining

32:09

the relationships that you have as

32:11

well while also developing

32:13

a new relationship. Also

32:15

I find when I get into a new relationship that

32:17

I want to like text that person

32:21

or keep, I guess, in contact with

32:23

them a lot. And

32:26

so if you're taking it slow, you

32:28

may want to like cool that a little bit

32:31

too. You may want to be

32:33

more measured in terms of the pace of

32:35

the texting in contrast to

32:37

how maybe you would feel if NRE

32:39

was sort of guiding that need and

32:41

that response and the intensity

32:44

of that. I know again, it

32:46

is this trope out there of, oh, don't

32:49

talk to a person again or text a guy

32:51

again, you know, people

32:54

are so scared of the double text. Oh,

32:56

oh yeah. No, the day, exactly. Like if

32:58

the ball is in his court, then he

33:00

has to be the one to text or

33:02

don't text him, you know, after

33:05

you've seen him for a date,

33:08

make sure that he does it first or

33:10

something like that. All of those arbitrary rules.

33:13

I've heard it all out there. And

33:15

that's not necessarily what we're talking about. Although

33:17

I suppose if you want to do something

33:19

like that, then that could be labeled as

33:21

slow love. I think it's important to maybe

33:24

take everything in a relationship one day at

33:26

a time instead of really getting caught up

33:28

in the headiness of this could be my

33:31

future mates. This could be

33:34

somebody that I really could see an exciting

33:36

path forward with or future

33:38

with. What can this relationship be 10 years

33:40

from now? And

33:42

instead of doing that, maybe just take it

33:45

a little bit slower in that regard. And

33:47

also I think slow love, as we said,

33:49

it just means that relationship milestones

33:52

might be paced more gradually, which

33:54

include things like sex and sleepovers,

33:56

but also maybe introducing this person

33:59

to fame. family and friends and

34:01

maybe a kid if you have

34:04

a kid or if you're non-monogamous

34:06

introducing them to your other partners,

34:08

maybe Slow Love could include doing

34:10

that at a later time and

34:13

not immediately. Sure. I

34:15

wanted to give a quick shout out

34:18

to a somewhat older episode of ours,

34:20

episode 190 that we did about

34:22

surviving and thriving in NRE because

34:24

that episode, we did much more

34:26

of a deep dive into like

34:28

what's actually happening in your brain

34:30

when you're going through NRE and

34:32

like why

34:35

you feel this compulsion detects person all the time

34:37

or to try to integrate them into your life as quickly

34:39

as possible. So I recommend folks go check out episode 190

34:42

if they want more specifics about that.

34:45

We've already talked about some of these, but we want

34:47

to get into what are some of the benefits of

34:49

taking it slow. I'd say

34:51

the biggest one for me personally

34:54

is that you get to retain some of

34:56

your personal autonomy and this

34:58

includes making sure that you still have

35:01

time for your family and your friends

35:03

as well as your own hobbies or

35:05

your interest or your job or your

35:08

physical health or cooking meals for yourself,

35:10

whatever it is that you're still spending

35:12

time on those things. I know that

35:15

the times when I've looked back and

35:18

been like, gosh, why was I so eager

35:20

to rush into that or why

35:22

did I spend so much time with this

35:24

person early on, usually the thing that

35:26

led me to regret that later is either that

35:28

I just way overextended myself and then felt burned

35:31

out and was like, please get away from me.

35:33

And then that's an awkward situation to deal with.

35:36

Or it's that this happened to be

35:39

during a slow time at work and

35:42

now that it gets back to normal, I can't

35:44

keep up that pace, but it feels like I

35:46

need to, I've messed this up

35:48

or it's while a partner's out

35:50

of town and now they're back and now I

35:52

have less time. It's like jumping into this, I'll

35:54

give every spare moment that I have has been

35:56

the number one thing that for me has gotten

35:59

me in trouble. more than

36:01

entwining legally or moving in stuff

36:03

like that, I usually

36:05

have been pretty good, not always the

36:08

best, but pretty good about waiting to

36:10

not rush into those sorts of things.

36:13

But the time commitment is the one that has

36:15

always been the mistake that I've made. So that's

36:17

a benefit is maintaining some of that autonomy. And

36:20

also, you get to know the person. Taking

36:23

time in between dates can

36:25

help also ease some of

36:27

that addictive quality of new

36:29

relationship energy. And so

36:31

if you're not spending such large blocks

36:33

of time around that person, there's less

36:36

of this huge come down then when

36:38

you're not with them that you're kind

36:40

of pacing that out. Allowing

36:43

those hormones to subside a bit also

36:45

helps you get a clearer picture like

36:47

Dedeker was mentioning about not seeing red

36:49

flags because you're just in all that

36:52

chemical cocktail. And then same

36:54

with sex. Like really good sex can make

36:56

you feel like your connection is

36:58

amazing in every area of the relationship.

37:01

But having again some time to come

37:03

down from that can help you see,

37:05

oh, maybe

37:07

we're not communicating that well in these

37:09

other areas or maybe actually don't like them in

37:11

some of these other areas. And

37:13

that doesn't mean you don't get to have

37:15

sex with this person, but it

37:17

helps you evaluate more realistically, maybe

37:20

I want to have a just sexual relationship

37:22

with this person or right,

37:24

it just lets you understand

37:26

your options or maybe it's like, ooh, actually this

37:29

person's yucky to me. I actually don't want to

37:31

be in this even though dang, I'm going to

37:33

miss that really good sex. But

37:35

helps you get that perspective and make better

37:37

decisions. This next benefit is for

37:39

me and Dedeker and all of you out there who

37:41

just went through a breakup. But

37:43

if you were getting out of

37:46

a serious relationship, taking it slow

37:48

could probably allow for reflection and

37:51

some time on your part to

37:53

really think about what it is

37:55

that you want in a budding

37:57

relationship and also maybe not...

38:00

continue the bad habits or

38:02

patterns that may have caused

38:04

the last relationship that you

38:06

were in to go sour.

38:09

And you can also reflect on all of the things

38:11

that it is that you want in a new relationship.

38:14

You could do the relationship anarchy smorgasbord

38:16

with a new partner as well to

38:18

kind of determine what it is that

38:20

each of you want your partnership to

38:22

look like because I think so many

38:24

of us get into relationships just thinking

38:26

like, yeah, they're gonna want exactly the

38:28

same things that I do and

38:30

that simply may not be the case. Like

38:33

Jace just said, maybe you find that a

38:35

relationship that you have in a sexual sense

38:37

is all that you really want that relationship

38:39

to look like and besides

38:41

that maybe it's not

38:43

really gonna go to more of an

38:45

emotional place and having sex

38:47

is totally okay or maybe you don't want

38:49

sex to be a part of that relationship

38:52

and you just want it to be like

38:54

a platonic wonderful friendship or romance

38:56

without the sex. So if you

38:58

want to learn more about the relationship

39:00

anarchy smorgasbord, check out episode 339. Yeah,

39:03

I like that

39:05

clarity to put on it because

39:07

I know something that happens for me

39:09

is when I'm getting out of

39:11

a relationship, every urge in my body

39:13

when I think about entering into a

39:16

new relationship, like everything in me

39:18

is like overcorrect, you know,

39:20

like swing the pendulum really far

39:22

the other direction and that's just like

39:24

a particular lens that sometimes is

39:26

not very helpful when you're

39:29

dating, you know. So it's like if, for

39:31

instance, like maybe you're frustrated because this person

39:33

you just got out of a relationship with

39:35

was like a bad texture and not very communicative and

39:37

then you're like, oh my god, I need someone who

39:39

texts all the time and maybe you overcorrect for someone

39:41

who's maybe texts you a little too much or things

39:45

of that nature. So yeah, being

39:47

able to cool your jets a

39:49

little bit is helpful for sure.

39:52

And now something that we do need to

39:54

discuss because obviously there are a lot of

39:56

benefits that we've been going over but what

39:59

are some of the potential drawbacks to taking

40:01

it slow. The first

40:03

one that comes to mind is

40:05

just that NRE, that new relationship

40:08

cocktail of hormones is great and

40:10

maybe if you're taking it too slow

40:13

and you're really putting a lot of

40:15

extra rules on yourself about how to

40:17

take it slow, you might miss

40:19

out on some of that or not get

40:21

to enjoy the positive feelings of that and

40:23

you're only just focused on limiting yourself and

40:26

you can miss out on that excitement and

40:28

passion. Also I'd say

40:30

related to that is that the other

40:32

person is going to be feeling some

40:34

of those excitement hormones and things for

40:36

being with you and you might have

40:39

some mismatched expectations on the state of

40:41

the relationship. It could be interpreted that

40:43

you're just not that interested, they might

40:45

want to take it faster than you

40:47

or it could be that you want

40:49

to take it really fast and you're slowing yourself down

40:51

and they're like, no, this is all I want, I'm

40:54

just not that invested that it

40:56

might keep you from having

40:58

some of those conversations if you're

41:01

just focused on slowing it down but not

41:03

really understanding where you're both at

41:05

with how you're feeling about it and that

41:07

could stifle the relationship or even just cause

41:10

it to end entirely. The

41:12

big thing that people talked

41:14

about on Reddit when they

41:16

were discussing the cons of

41:18

slow love or slow dating

41:20

were these kind of arbitrary

41:22

timelines that are placed on

41:24

a relationship and how it

41:26

sort of makes the relationship

41:29

feel less organic overall. And

41:31

if you are deciding, okay, I need

41:33

to make sure that I'm waiting a

41:35

specific amount of time for a next

41:37

date, for example, or I have to

41:40

make sure that I have sex on

41:42

the fifth date or after

41:44

a month that it may cause

41:47

the relationship to kind of sputter out when

41:49

it could have potentially been moving forward. Well,

41:52

I feel like a theme here that

41:54

I'm hearing is like how do

41:56

you know when moving at a

41:58

slow pace? is really

42:01

healthy versus when is it maybe

42:03

being too self-protective? I think that's a

42:05

great question to ask. Or maybe like

42:07

really trying to control something that

42:10

is difficult to control. I

42:13

know this is something I've chewed on

42:15

for quite a while. Like I'm someone who I

42:18

like to wait quite a while before

42:20

saying I love you to someone. Not

42:22

me. I

42:25

do it way too fast probably, but yes.

42:27

Well, it's good that you know that. I

42:30

mean, I don't know about way too fast. I usually do

42:32

it when I feel it, but it

42:34

tends to be pretty damn fast. Okay,

42:37

so yeah. So that's the thing is like, like

42:39

what's your timeline? Well, okay.

42:43

What I think is I think

42:45

it is very easy for me to say I

42:47

love you to someone if I'm feeling an Ari.

42:50

And of course, of course you feel

42:52

like you love someone because they're great.

42:54

They're divine. Your body is like on

42:56

a rocket ship through rainbow

42:58

colored clouds and like everything they do

43:00

feels magical. Of course, it's really easy

43:02

to feel love for that person. For

43:05

me, I tend to at least want

43:07

to wait until I've gotten a sense

43:09

of maybe I've seen actually met the

43:11

real person in a sense of

43:13

I've seen maybe more of their flaws or

43:16

we've gotten into some conflict. I've gotten to

43:18

see how they handle conflict either with me

43:20

or with others. And

43:22

so for me, before I'm willing to

43:25

express that, like I want to wait,

43:27

not like I'm waiting until the NRE is totally

43:29

gone, but I want to wait until I see a

43:31

little bit more of the actual person. And

43:34

I think that that has been helpful for me in

43:36

the past. However, there have also been times where

43:38

I've sometimes wondered, am I

43:40

like waiting for this person to prove themselves?

43:43

You know, like they need to prove that they're

43:45

worthy of me saying I love you. And

43:48

I think that's always been a tricky balancing act for

43:50

me. I mean, just to continue

43:52

off of that same example, I've been in

43:54

situations where someone has said that they love me

43:57

and I haven't been ready to say it back.

44:00

Sometimes people have handled that really well, sometimes

44:02

people have not handled that really well.

44:04

Yeah, for sure. And I think that

44:07

can happen in general even with I

44:09

love you or any other potential relationship

44:11

milestone that may be happening or may

44:13

not be happening because we're putting these

44:16

slow love boundaries on something. So

44:19

I do think having those

44:21

mismatched ideas about how quickly

44:23

the relationship should progress can

44:25

cause challenges and that

44:27

is where honest and specific

44:30

communication is really important. I'm

44:33

just remembering now you talking about that,

44:35

Dedeker. Oh, sure. I remember

44:37

this being kind of an awkward, weird thing

44:40

in our relationship. Was it? No,

44:42

it wasn't because I said I love you to you first. But

44:45

it was like I'd been holding back from saying it

44:47

for a while and I feel like we've kind of

44:49

talked about how you like to hold back. I just

44:51

remember it being, I mean it was exciting I guess,

44:53

we were doing an exciting dance. But I remember that

44:56

it just came back to me that that was a

44:58

little bit of a like thing that we had to

45:00

try to figure out. It took you guys like a

45:02

while, right? I know

45:04

how to do the forensics on this because I have a

45:06

very particular memory of a particular date and

45:09

if we can dig through the trove of

45:11

like Google photos of when that particular date

45:13

was then we can put it to a

45:15

specific moment in time. And then we'll come

45:17

to a conclusion about whether that was fast

45:20

or slow. Ultimately,

45:23

this is all about like really it

45:25

is about trying to control something that

45:27

is really difficult to control, namely your

45:30

own emotional state as well as the

45:32

other person's emotional state as well. Like

45:34

it's impossible to control how quickly or

45:37

slowly that you fall for

45:39

somebody or that they fall for

45:41

you. You know, someone may feel

45:43

the urge to want to take it

45:45

really fast with you before you're ready

45:47

or before you feel like you should.

45:50

And again, like sometimes you can navigate that and

45:52

sometimes that's going to cause friction. I

45:55

think another drawback to taking it slow.

45:58

So first of all, I want to

46:00

welcome you all. all into the sometimes

46:02

semi-reoccurring segment on multi-amry, which is Dedeker's

46:04

Japanese Vocabulary Corner. Oh, give

46:07

it to me, baby. Jeffy's Vocabulary Corner is

46:09

a fun segment. Yeah. Yeah. No

46:12

one expects it in a Naminogamy

46:14

Relationships podcast, but here we are. The

46:17

Japanese have this great word, furukusai, which

46:20

we would translate it as

46:22

old fashioned. What it literally

46:24

translates to is it stinks

46:26

like old. And

46:29

I do think that there's a certain amount

46:32

of all this taking it slow discourse. And

46:34

I think the reason why it leaves a

46:36

bad taste in some people's mouths is that

46:38

it can feel like it's this old fashioned

46:40

thing that it doesn't really speak to modern

46:42

dating or feminism. I think this is something

46:44

that has often been used like a cudgel

46:46

on women in particular, you know, punishing women

46:49

if we perceive that they have moved too

46:51

fast or slut shaming women if we perceive

46:53

that they have moved too fast. And so,

46:55

yeah, I think that that may

46:57

be a reaction that you can get from people

46:59

also if you're wanting to like really take it

47:01

slow, spread out your dates that some

47:04

people may say that you stink like old. Gosh,

47:06

God forbid. Yeah, seriously.

47:10

Oh, gosh. All right. So we're going to go

47:12

on to how to ask yourself

47:15

some questions to help evaluate your approach to

47:17

slow love that might be best for you,

47:19

as well as some things that you can

47:21

actually do to avoid as many of these

47:23

pitfalls as possible while getting the

47:25

most benefit. But we're going to take

47:28

another quick break to talk about supporting

47:30

this show. However, if you are a

47:32

patron at the $7 level or above,

47:34

we actually have a RSS feed where we

47:36

have these episodes without any ad breaks in

47:38

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47:40

If you don't want to have ads, you

47:42

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47:45

those of you who want to listen to

47:47

this for free, we love that too. Just

47:49

take a moment to check out the sponsors.

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They're companies that are willing to support a

47:54

show like this, which actually not a lot

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of companies will even do. We'll even put

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48:00

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48:02

so we really appreciate our sponsors on this

48:04

show. And so check them out, use our

48:06

promo codes and our links because that's how

48:08

you can directly help support our show. Support

48:11

for Multiamory is provided by Dipsy. So

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last week I was all excited about my Hades, Hades, Lord

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things are going great with Hades. I

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could not be happier. However, I have

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51:54

and we are back and want

51:56

to talk about. How.

51:58

Do you. know if taking it flow is

52:00

right for you. And then if you decide,

52:02

yes, it is, I'm going to do that. How

52:04

do you even implement it the next time you

52:06

date someone or the next time you get into

52:08

a relationship? First, I want you all

52:10

out there to maybe get out a journal or,

52:13

or just even like think about these

52:15

questions. Maybe stop after I say each

52:17

one and really reflect and think about

52:20

them. I love this. I love journaling

52:22

exercises. I know you do. I know.

52:25

So ask yourself these questions first.

52:27

Do you find that you tend to jump into

52:30

relationships quickly without really getting to

52:32

know a person? Maybe

52:34

there's a lot of red flags in your

52:36

past relationship like Dedeker talked about and you

52:39

tend to just sort of breeze past them and

52:41

then that kind of bites you in the ass

52:43

after a while. Think about that one. Next,

52:47

are you often surprised to find

52:49

out red flags or deal breakers

52:51

after the relationship has already progressed?

52:53

I think NRE so often causes us to

52:56

just look past that for a long period

52:58

of time. I

53:02

would find and maybe like a

53:04

year in or sometimes longer even you see these recurring

53:10

patterns that you realize, yikes, I

53:13

really should have seen that earlier

53:15

or I really maybe wouldn't have

53:17

progressed with this person had I

53:19

been honest with myself about those

53:21

things earlier. Or

53:24

even just would have put things in place

53:26

earlier to try to stop those patterns before

53:28

they became entrenched and now they're a lot

53:30

harder to deal with. Totally. Do

53:32

you tend to lose yourself in relationships

53:35

and neglect other parts of your life

53:37

like your family or your friends and

53:39

your deeper interests? This is

53:41

a huge thing that so many people do

53:43

in relationships. I have absolutely been guilty of

53:45

this. I don't know.

53:48

Anyone probably who hasn't, maybe some people

53:50

are really amazing about this boundary, but

53:53

if you find that that's something that you tend to

53:55

do in your relationships when you're starting out, maybe

53:57

you think about taking it a little slower. Do

54:00

people you're dating sometimes tell you

54:02

that you're too intense or they want you

54:04

to slow down? Been there, done that

54:06

too. Yikes. But

54:08

yeah, I think that that's, you know, that's not

54:11

always the case, that that's a you problem. It

54:13

might be a them problem. But

54:15

it is interesting to at least reflect on

54:17

and ask yourself, huh, like,

54:19

am I a little too intense? Am

54:22

I going a little too hard on

54:24

this person? And am I a little

54:26

bit too excited? And that's causing people

54:28

to feel as though, hey, maybe we

54:31

do need to slow it down or

54:33

maybe we shouldn't jump into seeing each

54:35

other five times a week after the

54:37

second date. I actually want

54:40

to add kind of a sub question to

54:42

this one. And that's, have

54:44

you noticed any trends where

54:46

you've gotten into a relationship

54:48

very quickly and afterward realized

54:50

that your friends had kind of been suggesting

54:52

maybe you pumped the brakes but you didn't,

54:55

you couldn't even hear them until after it

54:57

was over and then you realize or you

54:59

did hear them and you just ignored them?

55:02

The kind of same idea of getting

55:04

a little bit of outside reflection

55:06

of, oh yeah, maybe I did

55:08

just steamroll through this without really

55:10

paying attention to some signals I

55:12

was getting from people. Absolutely. This

55:15

is a big one here. This next one,

55:17

have you just gotten out of a long

55:19

term relationship and maybe need some time before

55:21

jumping into another one? Now

55:23

I am guilty of not doing this

55:25

one but I do

55:27

think that the pain of being

55:30

alone or the pain of ending

55:32

a long term relationship is so

55:35

intense sometimes that

55:37

we just want to get

55:39

into a new commitment really

55:42

quickly. And that can

55:44

cause us to again not take the time

55:46

to think about what it is that we

55:49

want and what it is that we need

55:51

and how we're going to make the

55:54

next relationship better than what just ended

55:56

for instance. And so pump

55:58

the brakes on yourself. and maybe

56:00

take it slow in terms of

56:03

getting into another really intense entanglement

56:05

immediately after ending something that was

56:07

really big and meaningful in your

56:09

life. And finally, let's

56:11

look at those outside commitments. Are

56:14

you polysaturated or do you have

56:16

a lot of additional obligations that

56:18

make rushing into a new relationship

56:20

especially difficult right now? And

56:23

that's something that I think many

56:25

of us underestimate or

56:27

rather overestimate the amount of time

56:29

that we think that we have. And

56:32

we're like, yeah, I can add another person or

56:34

I can start dating again or I can add

56:38

a new relationship to my life

56:40

when I'm trying to get a

56:42

PhD. And it just

56:44

is sometimes that's not feasible. That's

56:46

not realistic. And you really

56:48

can't maybe devote as much time

56:50

to our relationship as you may

56:52

want to. And that might be a really

56:54

good reason for slow love or

56:56

slow dating to happen in your life just

56:58

simply because you can't devote all your time

57:01

and energy to a new relationship. And

57:03

that's totally okay, but that's something to talk

57:05

about in the next relationship that you get

57:07

into. So now at the end

57:09

here, let's look at some actionable ways that

57:11

you can take it slow in your next

57:14

relationship or maybe you're just starting one right

57:16

now to take a look at what are

57:18

some ways that we can do this to

57:20

maximize the benefits and minimize some of those

57:22

pitfalls we talked about. So the first

57:24

thing is to do some thinking

57:27

and planning ahead. And by listening to this

57:29

episode, you're already on your way to that

57:31

step. So good for you. So

57:34

the questions to ask here are

57:36

things like what does taking it slow

57:38

mean to you? Is it

57:41

more about physical connection?

57:43

Is it more about emotional or

57:45

is it more about certain relationship milestones?

57:48

And I think the important thing to

57:50

think about here is the

57:53

point of this is not to find some

57:55

magic number of days or some magic

57:58

speed that just is the right

58:00

speed. I know we all wish

58:02

there were just answers of, oh, if you just

58:04

do this many days, then you're good. Or if

58:06

you just don't text first, then you're good or

58:08

whatever it is. We want the easy answers. But

58:11

the truth is you need to look

58:13

at yourself, right? What

58:15

are the trends I've noticed? You

58:17

might be listening to this and

58:20

thinking, oh, I'm already crushing it

58:22

at slow love because I'm, you

58:24

know, very standoffish and I don't let people get close

58:26

to me. This

58:29

might not be the episode for you. This

58:31

might not be the episode for you. And I don't

58:34

mean that as any kind of criticism because I think

58:36

we've made a lot of criticisms of ourselves being too

58:38

fast in the past, but it's

58:40

just looking at yourself and going,

58:43

yeah, have I been too fast or am

58:46

I not? Am I, maybe I can speed it up a

58:48

little bit, but just keep in mind I'm still being

58:50

intentional about getting to know this person and

58:52

building a connection, not just rushing into things

58:55

to kind of help you find that middle

58:57

ground. And I think to go

58:59

to the rules thing, the whole, you know,

59:01

wait three days or only have one date

59:03

per week or some kind of arbitrary rule,

59:05

I don't like

59:07

them as general rules for everyone,

59:10

but they can be helpful for

59:12

yourself. Especially if you can

59:14

back it up with, okay, I

59:16

had this relationship and it actually was pretty

59:19

nice that way we built it up because

59:21

logistically we were only able to see each

59:23

other this often. And then this

59:25

other one, I really rushed into it and I

59:27

tend to just every night you can come over

59:29

and spend the night. I've definitely been guilty of

59:31

that one. It's like, well, I don't have a

59:33

good reason to say no. So, sure, yeah, let's

59:35

do that. It's nice. Sex is good, whatever. So

59:38

having an arbitrary rule for yourself just

59:40

for the sake of giving you something

59:43

to gauge your speed against can be

59:45

really helpful. Just keep in mind that

59:47

it's there to serve you, not the

59:50

other way around. It's not some absolute hard

59:52

and fast, this is the right answer. But

59:55

just find something that works for you and

59:57

then also communicate. Make your

59:59

intentions known. the other person, let

1:00:01

them know early on about your

1:00:03

expectations or things like that to

1:00:05

avoid those situations where they think

1:00:07

it means you're not interested. Just

1:00:10

be communicative, be honest about

1:00:12

what's going on. And

1:00:14

I would say also try to make sure it's

1:00:17

about emotionally what you want and

1:00:19

how you want to care for yourself and not,

1:00:21

oh, sorry, I have this rule that X. Because

1:00:24

I just think that then leads to that

1:00:26

feeling of, oh, well, this isn't organic

1:00:29

or natural or whatever, it's just

1:00:31

following these rules. To

1:00:33

go a different direction, one thing

1:00:36

you can look at is avoiding unnecessary

1:00:38

spending of money early

1:00:40

on in the relationship. So this

1:00:42

could refer to the kind

1:00:44

of love-bomby sorts of giving tons

1:00:47

of gifts and lavish dates and

1:00:49

things like that that aren't

1:00:51

coming from anywhere bad but are being

1:00:54

motivated by all these chemicals. You

1:00:56

want to spend more money to get more of those chemicals. Again,

1:00:59

can set up an expectation that

1:01:01

you can't really maintain or even

1:01:03

hurt yourself financially that's then going

1:01:05

to hurt you longer term in

1:01:07

this relationship. I think it's a

1:01:09

good idea to put in the effort

1:01:11

to really get to know

1:01:14

somebody emotionally. I

1:01:18

mean, I don't know, is it better to do

1:01:20

that before you get to know them physically if you're someone

1:01:22

who enjoys having sex in your relationship? Is

1:01:24

it better to wait before that? That's all

1:01:26

very personal, right? There's definitely some people

1:01:28

and some people who identify as demisexual who

1:01:30

really want to take a lot of time

1:01:33

to get to know someone emotionally first

1:01:35

before having sex. But I

1:01:37

really enjoy in particular the New York

1:01:39

Times 36 questions to

1:01:42

fall in love. It's a really, really

1:01:44

fascinating list of questions that kind of

1:01:46

get progressively a little bit more vulnerable as you go

1:01:48

along and you don't have to sit down and do

1:01:51

all 36 with one person in one session. Even

1:01:55

if you look at this list and you're like,

1:01:57

oh, this is actually a really interesting question, you

1:01:59

could just bring that to your attention. your next

1:02:01

date with somebody as a conversation prompt essentially, because

1:02:03

it's going to help give you some clues about

1:02:06

really who they are on the inside.

1:02:08

There's also this list that we

1:02:10

pulled from Bonoboology. That's

1:02:14

one that works better on paper than

1:02:16

saying it out loud. Bonoboology.

1:02:21

Bono, bonobo, legie. Anyway,

1:02:25

if you search that

1:02:28

term however you think that it's spelled and

1:02:30

search for 50 questions to ask your significant

1:02:32

other to know them better, this is also

1:02:34

a really great list of questions because in

1:02:36

particular they include questions like, what

1:02:39

are your thoughts on monogamy in marriage?

1:02:41

Or what constitutes cheating? Or would you

1:02:43

ever want an open relationship? Of course, you

1:02:45

need to figure out what kind of connection am

1:02:48

I wanting to build with this person which questions

1:02:50

are actually appropriate to ask here, but these

1:02:52

are all fantastic questions to ask

1:02:55

before you get into the

1:02:58

super deep entangled committed phase

1:03:00

with somebody. A best

1:03:02

practice to take it slow in

1:03:04

your next relationship or just in

1:03:07

general is to refrain

1:03:09

from being controlling or possessive

1:03:11

of the relationship. So that

1:03:13

means allow your significant

1:03:15

other space and take time

1:03:18

to enjoy your own hobbies and interests

1:03:20

without them. And you are

1:03:22

not, even if you have been married to

1:03:24

this person for a long time or have

1:03:26

been in a relationship for a long time,

1:03:28

you're not entitled to anybody's time. And

1:03:31

that's something to really remember as you're

1:03:33

getting excited about someone new in your

1:03:35

life. Just because you're excited

1:03:38

about them or just because you're in

1:03:40

a relationship with them doesn't mean that

1:03:42

you're entitled to their time and to

1:03:44

their energy. And so don't

1:03:46

take it for granted, but also don't be possessive

1:03:48

of them. And oh boy,

1:03:50

don't sign anything in the first year or

1:03:52

make a huge commitment right away. You

1:03:55

heard the statistics at the beginning of

1:03:57

this in terms of marriage that like

1:03:59

people people who get married after

1:04:02

less than a year, they're much, much

1:04:04

more likely to get divorced. And

1:04:07

so similarly, I think if you enter

1:04:10

into getting an apartment with someone

1:04:12

after just a short period

1:04:14

of time, you're probably much more likely to not

1:04:16

know the things about them that you want to

1:04:18

in order to get into

1:04:20

that kind of entanglement with them. I

1:04:22

have one little add-on to this one

1:04:24

and that's something I've seen couples do

1:04:26

where they say, we're not going to

1:04:28

do this thing until we've been together

1:04:31

a year, but they start planning for

1:04:33

that thing like three months in. That's

1:04:35

right, yeah. And so- Like

1:04:37

getting an apartment together or whatever. Yes. Yeah. Right.

1:04:41

Like they're already looking for it together, they're already making

1:04:43

plans for it. And I feel like that actually, at

1:04:46

least what I've just noticed observationally with

1:04:48

people doing that, that they get

1:04:50

themselves into the same problem because they've

1:04:53

mentally committed to it and they're following

1:04:55

through because they've committed to it rather

1:04:58

than actually giving it that year

1:05:00

to just focus on building this

1:05:02

relationship before we're even really considering

1:05:05

those sorts of steps. So

1:05:07

that's just, I'd say like the second level

1:05:09

to that one that I've started noticing more

1:05:11

and more recently. Lastly, I

1:05:14

want to give a shout out. I think I've

1:05:16

talked about this on the show before, but Martha

1:05:18

Cowpey who we interviewed, our

1:05:20

first interview with her was back

1:05:22

in episode 340 talking about polyamory

1:05:25

and therapy. Martha Cowpey wrote this great

1:05:27

book called Polyamory, a clinical toolkit

1:05:29

for therapists and their clients. And

1:05:31

she has this specific exercise

1:05:34

that I really love sending to my clients

1:05:36

that's called How I Plan to Handle New

1:05:38

Relationship Energy. And I think that if you're

1:05:40

someone who tends to struggle with NRE or

1:05:43

struggle with moving too fast or

1:05:45

becoming polysaturated really fast

1:05:47

or taking on new

1:05:49

relationships when you're already polysaturated, I think

1:05:52

this is a fantastic exercise.

1:05:55

And it's basically a series of

1:05:57

writing prompts that includes things like...

1:06:00

you know, this is the kind of person that

1:06:02

I aspire to be or these are the people

1:06:04

that I really want to make sure that I

1:06:06

stay connected to or these are the fun things

1:06:08

that I love to do alone or I think

1:06:11

the real kicker like this is how I want

1:06:13

my partners to feel about me and this is

1:06:15

how I want my partners to feel about our

1:06:17

polyamorous relationship. And these are the things that I

1:06:19

want to do to help elicit those feelings in

1:06:22

them that again I think can

1:06:24

help give you a little bit of a reality check

1:06:27

about seriously who it is that

1:06:29

you want to be even when you're

1:06:31

a little bit drunk on brain chemicals

1:06:33

can help give you something to ground

1:06:36

to in the midst of this and some

1:06:38

of that grounding could help you to move a

1:06:40

little bit slower. We didn't

1:06:42

talk at all about the fact that taking

1:06:44

it slow could also help keep

1:06:47

your existing relationships if you're

1:06:49

non-monogamous sort of more

1:06:52

understanding of the potential excitement

1:06:54

that you're going through and

1:06:56

also enable you to be

1:06:58

really present with them still

1:07:01

even though you may

1:07:03

be really excited about a new relationship.

1:07:05

But it allows the time and the

1:07:07

care to kind of step back from

1:07:09

all the intensity of the hormones that

1:07:11

you may be feeling and

1:07:13

get to relish the old

1:07:16

relationship energy as well and

1:07:18

the love that you already have for people in

1:07:20

your life. Yeah, I've

1:07:23

never ever ever heard

1:07:25

anybody complain that their partner

1:07:27

is moving too slow in another relationship.

1:07:30

I will never be like, God, they're just

1:07:32

taking forever to go to the next base

1:07:34

at this person or to tangle like I

1:07:37

don't get what their deal is. I've never

1:07:39

heard that complaint. The complaint I

1:07:41

hear all the freaking time is, oh

1:07:43

my God, my partner's moving so

1:07:45

fast in this new relationship and it's like

1:07:48

my head is spinning and like these milestones

1:07:50

are happening so quickly and I don't even

1:07:52

know and like everything's all topsy turvy

1:07:54

and all these things are changing.

1:07:56

Right. So it's not to

1:07:59

say that you should let your partner. partner

1:08:01

100% dictate how fast you move in a

1:08:03

relationship. But just bear in mind

1:08:05

that that's a factor. For

1:08:07

sure. Well, we hope you

1:08:09

enjoyed this conversation today. I

1:08:12

know that in new relationships in my

1:08:14

life, I will try to implement some

1:08:16

of this, even though I'm not

1:08:19

great at it, but it was a good

1:08:21

thing to discuss and to talk about. And

1:08:23

we hope that all of you out there

1:08:25

can take some little gems and some wisdom

1:08:27

from what we just talked about. So

1:08:29

our question for the week, which is going

1:08:32

to be in our Instagram

1:08:34

stories is have you ever engaged in

1:08:36

slow love and how did

1:08:38

it go? And the

1:08:40

best place to share your thoughts

1:08:42

with other listeners is in the

1:08:44

episode discussion channel in our discord

1:08:46

server, or you can post in

1:08:48

our private Facebook group. You can

1:08:50

get access to these groups and

1:08:52

join our exclusive community by going

1:08:54

to patreon.com/multi-amory. In addition, you can

1:08:56

share with us publicly on Twitter,

1:08:58

Facebook, or Instagram. Multi-amory is created and

1:09:00

produced by Jason Lindgren, Dedeker Winston, and me,

1:09:03

Emily Matlack. Our production assistants are Rachel Chenowerk

1:09:05

and Carson Collins. Our theme song is forms.

1:09:07

I know I did by Josh and Anand

1:09:09

from the fractal cave E.P. The

1:09:12

full transcript is available on this

1:09:14

episode's page on multi-amory.com.