0:00

Hello, multi-amory listeners. This

0:02

is Dedeker. Coming

0:04

up in April of this year,

0:06

myself, along with dance and movement

0:08

therapist, Orit Krug, will be co-leading

0:11

a somatic retreat for polyamorous folks

0:13

in Costa Rica. If

0:15

you've been feeling like your brain

0:18

is on board with nomenogamy,

0:20

but your emotions and your feelings are

0:22

having a hard time catching up, if

0:25

you've been struggling to access feelings

0:27

of joy or safety

0:30

or ease or pleasure, or

0:33

if you're feeling isolated in your

0:35

nomenogamy journey and you just want

0:37

to kick back in a hammock

0:39

or go for a walk in

0:41

nature with other consciously relating polyamorous

0:43

folks, please consider joining us. We

0:46

have space for solo poly individuals,

0:48

for couples, and we do have

0:50

space for at least one triad,

0:53

but this retreat is going to

0:55

be quite small, so it's application

0:57

only. You can go to multiamory.com/retreat

1:00

for more information on applying. And

1:02

for multi-amory listeners, if you mention the

1:05

code multi in your application, you can

1:07

get a discount on the retreat price.

1:09

Again, go to multiamory.com/retreat

1:12

and mention the code

1:14

multi. There

1:21

also are quite a few

1:23

companies who include more protections

1:25

against discrimination in

1:27

their employee manuals than are required

1:30

by their state or by the

1:32

country that they're based in. There

1:34

are also some organizations out there

1:36

that will try to rank companies

1:39

based on how affirming their policies

1:41

are. So not the culture specifically,

1:43

but in terms of their documented

1:45

HR policies and

1:47

things like that, how affirming are they

1:50

and how much do they do to

1:52

protect people who are LGBTQ? And

1:54

of the top performing companies in the

1:56

US, so like the Fortune 500, Fortune

1:58

100, Great Fortune Twenty.

2:00

You know there's like the biggest Anthony

2:03

is. The vast majority of those rank

2:05

very highly on these skills. So if

2:07

you're someone in a business is not

2:09

doing that, maybe take a page out

2:11

of the book of the more successful

2:13

companies and put some more of things

2:15

like that in their. Welcome

2:19

to the multi emery podcasts!

2:21

I'm Jace. I'm Emily's it.

2:23

I'm that occur. We believe in

2:25

looking. To the Future of relationships.

2:27

Not maintaining the status quo

2:30

of the pass whether you're

2:32

monogamous, polyamorous, he casually dating

2:34

for he just. He.

2:56

Amri podcast We're talking about

2:58

See and Out as non

3:00

monogamous in the workplace and

3:02

making your workplace a more

3:05

inclusive place for people in

3:07

different types of relationships. Were.

3:09

Going to go over some of the

3:11

pros and cons of being out at

3:13

work as well as some ways that

3:16

workplaces can be a more welcoming place

3:18

to a diverse range of relationships and

3:20

will also discuss how you can decide

3:22

if this is the right decision for

3:24

you to make. And then in

3:26

part to have this were going to

3:28

get into some practical tips for how

3:30

you can come out in a way

3:33

that is as safe as possible if

3:35

you decide to do that and some

3:37

practical ways that you can help to

3:39

make your workplace more inclusive. Lot.

3:41

Of exciting stuff here. There's been

3:43

a lot going on in the

3:45

movement for creating better workplace protections,

3:48

as well as encouraging workplaces to

3:50

be more open and accepting of

3:52

different types of relationships structures with

3:54

their employees. So this is really

3:56

exciting time. We're seeing a lot

3:58

of movement with their. And

4:00

so we're really gonna dive into all

4:02

the nitty gritty is in this two

4:04

part series On this. Almost.

4:07

Feel like be as episodes or

4:09

and a continuation of our talk

4:11

with Diana at Amazon Heath Seconds?

4:13

or just Because. They. Really

4:16

are two people at the forefront of

4:18

this movement? and we had so many

4:20

interesting things to say about the workplace

4:22

in that episode that was Episode Four

4:25

Twenty Five, which was pretty recent. So

4:27

again, these are sort of continuation on

4:29

that those stamps and getting even more

4:31

into the nitty gritty of talking about

4:34

workplaces and coming out. Yeah.

4:36

Ok, maybe that ones like the prequels

4:38

that's The Harbor There you go our

4:40

during the Lord of the Rings wire

4:43

obesity free Pass them to I don't

4:45

have aspiration to sell Nine out. Hey,

4:47

speaking of great books, If you're interested

4:49

in learning more about our fundamental communication

4:52

tools that we reference on this show

4:54

all the time, you can check out

4:56

our book multi amery Essential Tools for

4:59

Modern Relationships where we cover some of

5:01

our most used communication tools for all

5:03

types of relationships, including professional ones. You.

5:06

Can find links to buy it

5:08

at multi emery.com/book or wherever find

5:10

books are sold. Also.

5:12

Check out the first nine episodes of

5:14

this podcast, which covers some of our

5:16

most widely used and shared communication tools.

5:19

Are gonna start out with a disclaimer that

5:21

we're not employment lawyers were not. Lawyers have

5:23

any type or even if we were, we

5:25

would probably tell you that this podcast doesn't

5:27

constitute any type of legal advice. Irresponsible

5:30

for your. Own actions and decisions

5:32

on this friends. As we're

5:34

talking about this today, we're base more

5:36

of our legal understanding of author of

5:39

laws specifically in the Us. So.

5:41

Bear that in mind. I'm but also even

5:44

within the U S laws are different

5:46

and inconsistent between different states, so pay

5:48

attention to that. Again, the general principles

5:50

that we talk about to they should

5:52

still apply, but it's always best to

5:54

research the laws in your location in

5:57

your country, in your state are and

5:59

also do some research into the experiences

6:01

of other people facing the similar situations

6:03

ideally people who also live in the

6:05

same country or state that you live

6:07

in. right? So as for

6:10

getting started for this episode, there's

6:12

a lot to cover here. This

6:14

is a pretty huge topic, and

6:16

it's also a topic that's changing

6:18

quite a bit. Yeah, we talked

6:20

on that episode Four Twenty Five

6:23

about a couple areas that have

6:25

actually put legally some protections in

6:27

place for people in non monogamous

6:29

relationships. So. It's very

6:31

possible that if you're listening to this a year

6:33

from now, there will be more places with those

6:36

protections and this might change. But. I

6:38

think the overall. Topic

6:40

of it though, the overall concepts

6:42

here are not going to change

6:44

that rapidly because society and the

6:46

way people behaved to each other

6:48

doesn't change. That quickly really

6:51

mean I guess it all depends on

6:53

your time scale you're looking at, but

6:55

the ticket our these considerations or something

6:58

that matters. And also to point out

7:00

that this episode is not just about

7:02

should you personally come out but also

7:05

if you're someone who is not non

7:07

monogamous a be your monogamous or maybe

7:09

your just single by choice. Or.

7:12

Or maybe you are questioning

7:14

coming out about some other

7:16

kind of identity. Like.

7:18

Being gay or something like that, that's

7:20

like, well, Am. On the sense

7:23

about is it worth it to come

7:25

out? A lot of these principles apply

7:27

because for us talking about non monogamy.

7:29

A lot of the examples that

7:31

we have and a lot of

7:33

the data that we have mostly

7:36

comes from people decided to come

7:38

out about the in Lgbtq. Rights.

7:40

And so a lot of these principles

7:42

apply their so we're We're going to

7:45

talk a little bit about some of

7:47

the ones that apply specifically to non

7:49

monogamy, as well as a lot of

7:51

just about coming out as anything non

7:53

normative in general. And then of course,

7:56

if you're none of those things, understanding

7:58

this and understanding. Why? People

8:00

might keep that from you, that it might

8:02

not be about you personally or that they

8:04

don't want to be your friend or to

8:06

open up to you. But. They

8:08

might evaluate that the risks of doing

8:11

that are too great. And

8:13

so. This. I think as

8:15

a really important episode for people

8:18

that are monogamous, To. Listen to

8:20

as well to get a better understanding of

8:22

what some of these concerns might be That

8:24

probably wouldn't even occur to someone. I.

8:26

Remember, I think I talked about this

8:28

on an episode before, but I ended

8:30

up coming out to one of my

8:33

coworkers or to a supervisor of mine

8:35

just recently just earlier this year because

8:37

I was talking to him about the

8:39

podcast and it's like, well, how do

8:41

I spoke about that without coming out

8:43

of out about this other thing. And.

8:46

I processed it by Santa saying.

8:49

Yeah, this is something that I don't really talk

8:51

about much at work. You know I don't want

8:53

people to feel uncomfortable or but yeah, just a

8:55

you know kind of going. And if you listen

8:57

to the podcast, this is sort of what it's

8:59

about. These are some of the topics, things like

9:01

that. And his response than

9:03

a few days later he's like oh i

9:05

was it your podcast as like oh god

9:07

here comes ha ha This as also older

9:10

than me to say like double double area

9:12

for concern right? Ah death and sad. His

9:14

reaction was kind of like i don't know

9:16

why you would see like you needed to.

9:19

Hide this or or keep as a result seems

9:21

totally fine to me. I get gosh, you should

9:24

hear what some of the other employees talk about

9:26

in terms of their sex lives. Are there? Whatever.

9:28

And it was that. Interesting things like yeah, I

9:30

hear you and I appreciate that and also you

9:32

don't get it. And

9:35

so I do think this episode will hopefully be

9:37

helpful for people in that position as well. Where

9:39

it's like yeah, want to be supportive that maybe

9:41

I don't understand why this would be scary. And.

9:44

You want to give props to that

9:46

guy and he's a great guy. Yeah,

9:48

yeah. Serbian, encouraging and support as in

9:50

that way and. Even like going even fc given

9:52

the sales pitch on the podcast, going and listening

9:54

to the hit. The. App yeah, that was

9:57

nice of am. Yeah. I will

9:59

say something that. Occurred to me over

10:01

and over again when we were kind

10:03

of discussing this before getting on air.

10:06

Was. The thing that Diana Adams

10:08

said in that episode the We Keep

10:10

Talking About which is that if you

10:12

do live in an area or or

10:15

with an employer for instance, that really.

10:17

Doesn't. Hold these types of

10:20

values as something that's important. sue

10:22

them or who super conservative or

10:24

live and you know specific part

10:26

of the country that sometimes the

10:29

easiest thing to do is just

10:31

leave or not be in that

10:33

area anymore or. Leave. That

10:35

job and I know that that's not

10:37

always available to everybody, but that is

10:40

something bird in terms of where we

10:42

are at this particular point in time.

10:45

Even though there are a lot of

10:47

great things to celebrate about where we

10:49

are as well and that sort of

10:51

where we wanted to begin with, some

10:53

background into it. kind of how far

10:55

we've come in terms of people feeling

10:58

safe to come out as queer in

11:00

the workplace. However, it is so really

11:02

far from being ubiquitous. So.

11:04

A twenty eighteen survey by the

11:07

Human Rights Campaign Sundays and sound

11:09

that forty six percent of Lgbtq

11:11

workers are closeted at work. That's

11:14

amazing. Like almost half still. In.

11:16

Twenty Eight Ten. That was what. Five.

11:19

Years ago now. but that's not that long ago.

11:21

The. Top reasons Lgbtq people gave for

11:23

not being out at work were:

11:26

fear of being stereotyped. That was

11:28

thirty eight percent. Making.

11:30

People feel uncomfortable thirty

11:32

six percent. Losing. Connections

11:35

with coworkers which was thirty

11:37

one percent. And sphere of

11:39

being seen as attracted to coworkers?

11:41

Twenty seven percent. I. Feel like

11:43

that's what most definitely is something on

11:46

my radar that even like talking about.

11:48

Being. By for example that some people might

11:50

be worried about that as oh you're gonna

11:52

hit on me or it or do something

11:55

that is going to make me feel uncomfortable.

11:57

For instance, will get

11:59

into this more later, but I do

12:01

think we're in the phase, and

12:03

I mean this phase has been going on

12:05

for a long time, where the

12:08

mainstream has this tendency to

12:10

hypersexualize, quote unquote, non-normative relationships.

12:12

And we've seen that happen

12:14

with many different, quote

12:17

unquote, non-normative relationships going

12:19

all the way back to, you know, interracial

12:23

relationships. We're very much

12:25

hypersexualized or people would be accused that, oh, this is

12:27

just a sex thing or this is just a

12:29

fetish thing. And same thing with queer

12:32

identities and queer relationships. Again, oh, this is a

12:34

sex thing or with someone who is transgender, oh,

12:36

this is just a sex thing. And

12:39

so it's like that, this double whammy

12:41

where we're so sex negative,

12:43

you know, sex in and

12:45

of itself is dark and dirty and

12:47

we shouldn't be talking about it. We certainly shouldn't be

12:49

talking about it in the workplace combined with now I'm

12:51

going to kind of layer that

12:54

onto this particular identity and make it

12:56

extra doubly scary. And so, yeah, I

12:58

think we've seen that with many different

13:00

types of relationships and we're seeing the

13:03

same with non-monogamy as it becomes more

13:05

mainstream and more people are talking about it and becoming

13:08

aware of it. A couple

13:10

interesting things to point out about this is you'll

13:12

notice that none of these

13:14

top reasons that this particular study

13:16

found were about being fired or

13:19

about being overtly discriminated

13:22

against. They're all

13:24

about being stereotyped, making other

13:26

people uncomfortable, which

13:28

is interesting, or losing connections with

13:30

coworkers. And I would say probably

13:33

what fits into that are all those little awkward,

13:36

weird things or people just being strange

13:38

to you or stuff like that, that

13:40

those are still serious things and worth

13:43

considering, which goes back to the

13:45

point I was making earlier about

13:48

how important it is for us

13:50

to understand that these are concerns

13:52

and also to do what we can to

13:55

make our workplace more inviting. Because even something

13:57

like this where especially if you live in

13:59

a somewhat... liberal part of the country,

14:01

you'd go, oh, there's legal protections

14:03

and this is totally fine and people can

14:05

be out about this and we know it's

14:07

not about sex, they can get married, everything's

14:09

fine, but still 46% are not

14:12

out. So we're not there yet and we still have

14:14

work to do. And a lot of these things apply

14:17

equally well to non-monogamy. The same thing,

14:19

worried about being seen as attracted

14:21

to someone else, moving in connection with

14:23

my coworkers, making people uncomfortable, I can

14:26

relate to all of these things so

14:29

clearly. In

14:31

2023 OPEN, which is the

14:33

organization for polyamory and ethical

14:35

non-monogamy, which is what

14:37

Diana Adams and Dr. Heath

14:40

Scheckinger are a part of

14:42

and our connection to the

14:44

OPEN organization is that episode

14:46

381, we actually did an

14:48

interview with one of the

14:51

board members from the organization

14:53

and we've been involved in various things,

14:56

the Day of Visibility, for example, with

14:58

them as well. So I've had some

15:00

conversations about some of their resources for

15:02

coming out at work and things like

15:04

that. So yeah, we're very involved with

15:06

them. They're an awesome organization and we'll

15:08

probably plug some more of their resources

15:11

throughout these two episodes. Absolutely, yeah, check

15:13

them out. So they did

15:15

this community survey in 2023. So this

15:18

year, they found that of people who had been

15:20

non-monogamous for at least a year, 43% of people

15:24

were not open at all at

15:26

their workplace about being non-monogamous and

15:28

then only 18% so

15:31

that they were totally out with the remaining 38%

15:34

being somewhat open. I wonder what

15:36

that means like only a little

15:38

bit out in regards to, oh,

15:40

I have an open relationship with

15:42

my partner or something but maybe

15:45

not getting into specifics. I do wonder

15:47

what that differentiation is. My

15:49

guess as to what that means is

15:51

that it's something they've talked about with

15:53

a select few people at work but

15:56

it's not something that they would feel

15:58

comfortable mentioning in a larger... group

16:00

setting or everybody talking about that's my

16:02

guess is what they mean by not

16:05

Totally open or just being somewhat open. I

16:07

honestly don't know which of those categories I

16:09

would fit into And

16:11

this is something that actually I was reading

16:14

a blog in Preparation for this episode by

16:16

Diana Adams that was talking about coming out

16:18

online And some of the

16:20

pros and cons and risks and things of doing that And

16:23

one of the things that she mentioned is that

16:26

she doesn't often come out Explicitly

16:29

in workplace type settings because

16:31

as soon as you google her name It's

16:35

all associated with non monogamy And

16:37

so it's like that thing of

16:39

well I'm kind of out to anyone

16:41

who looks and so I'm kind

16:43

of in the same category right anyone who looks

16:45

even a tiny bit Will know this

16:47

about me, so it's not like I'm Closeted

16:50

specifically, but it's also not something that

16:52

I talk about at work At

16:54

least not generally not until I have

16:56

more of a rapport or comfort with someone Yeah,

16:59

I think what falls into that for me

17:01

is in most areas of my

17:04

life I've always been more comfortable with

17:06

the slow drip of information Like

17:09

it feels like there's many layers to peel

17:11

back when coming out with someone You

17:13

know like I think back in the day shortly after my

17:16

first book came out It was if someone

17:18

asked me what my book was about I very

17:20

generically say like oh, it's about feminism and sexuality

17:23

And if they couldn't handle that

17:25

then I wouldn't go any further

17:27

like oh god another one of those

17:30

Which is so odd because again like I

17:32

don't want to contribute to hyper sexualizing

17:35

non-monogamous relationships But it's that little bit

17:37

of like are you can you

17:39

acknowledge? The existence of

17:41

sex are you okay with acknowledging these

17:44

existence of sexuality and like even? Diverging

17:46

sexualities and then maybe if I see

17:48

that you get past that Gateway we

17:50

we can go I can just drip

17:52

in more and more and more and

17:54

more information Especially with my job

17:57

now since I mean clearly I'm out

17:59

of my job because I work with non-monogamous clients and

18:01

I'm also my own boss. So it's not

18:03

that big of an issue, but

18:05

there's been sort of a safety and

18:08

sometimes telling people, oh yeah, I work

18:10

with non-monogamous clients and that can also

18:12

be a little bit of a good

18:15

filtration system. So yeah, I'm much more

18:17

into that kind of somewhat open like slow

18:19

drip of information, I think. Adam

18:21

L you

18:30

must be doing something with that, what is it that

18:32

you're doing? And I say I'm a

18:34

professional podcast host, that's generally what I

18:36

talk about. But if they ask what

18:38

it's about, it is kind of

18:40

that question of, okay, which side of the

18:43

podcast am I going to go more into the

18:46

fact that it's about relationships and

18:48

communication or that it's specializing in

18:50

non-monogamous relationship and communication, for example.

18:52

Because I don't know these people's

18:54

stories, I don't know if they're

18:56

super right wing or going to

18:58

be really upset about me getting

19:00

into it. There are

19:02

all of these considerations that one

19:04

has to question on a real

19:07

time basis very quickly and

19:09

I do think that that's sort of something that

19:11

we're getting into today is, is

19:14

it worth it to you to come out

19:16

in all of these various ways or not. Another

19:19

sort of really big topic that

19:21

people have to consider is whether

19:24

or not they're going to come

19:26

out as transgender and a

19:28

Boston consulting group survey from 2021 found

19:30

that only 29% of

19:33

respondents in the US were out

19:35

to their coworkers about being transgender.

19:38

So again, just to show there's so many different

19:40

ways people can come out and

19:43

when making those decisions it seems like

19:45

the majority of them are saying maybe

19:47

it's better to stay closeted in a

19:49

workplace as opposed to coming out just

19:52

because there's so many factors in play

19:54

here. that

20:00

they could be out in their

20:02

workplace. So that same Boston Consulting

20:05

Group study found that 43% of

20:08

LGBTQ people in the US who are

20:10

out at work see it as

20:12

an advantage and only 9% of

20:14

those think that it's a disadvantage to

20:16

them. And several of

20:18

these surveys also have indicated that employees

20:21

are more likely to stay at a

20:23

job if their employer is a welcoming

20:25

place for their particular identity. They're

20:27

also more likely to take a job at an

20:30

affirming company and they're more likely to spend

20:32

time looking for other jobs if

20:34

their identity is not supported at work.

20:36

So maybe this is obvious to you

20:39

if you're someone who's had to deal with this

20:41

in your life, but clearly this is a huge

20:43

factor that people are taking into consideration when it

20:45

comes to their place of employment. There

20:48

also are quite a few companies

20:51

who include more protections against discrimination

20:53

in their employee manuals than are

20:55

required by their state or by

20:57

the country that they're based in.

21:00

So it's also something worth checking, right?

21:02

Check your HR manual and see if your

21:05

company does. There are also

21:07

some organizations out there that will

21:09

try to rank companies based on

21:11

how affirming their policies are. So

21:14

not the culture specifically, but in

21:16

terms of their documented HR policies

21:19

and things like that, how affirming

21:21

are they and how much do

21:23

they do to protect people who

21:25

are LGBTQ? And of

21:29

the top performing companies in the US, so like the

21:31

Fortune 500, Fortune 100, Fortune 20, you know, those like

21:33

the biggest

21:36

companies, the vast majority of

21:38

those rank very highly on these

21:40

scales. So if you're someone in

21:42

a business who's not doing that, maybe take

21:44

a page out of the book of some

21:47

more successful companies and put some more things

21:49

like that in there. All right.

21:51

So we're going to switch

21:53

into looking at all the things that

21:55

you may consider, all the

21:58

factors that you need to take. into consideration if

22:01

you're thinking about coming out. So we're

22:03

going to be talking about what might be the

22:05

reasons for and what might be some of the

22:07

risks that you may be taking. Let me some

22:09

of the factors that may suggest that

22:11

it's not a good idea to come out at your

22:13

workplace. So we have to start

22:16

with the fundamental question that some

22:18

people may be questioning why someone would

22:21

want to talk about this at work

22:23

at all. For some people, nomenogamy may

22:25

feel personal. And I know there's

22:27

always the floating question of like is polyamory

22:29

or nomenogamy is an identity or is it

22:31

just a choice, a lifestyle choice or whatever.

22:34

And the reality is that it's both

22:36

depending on who you're talking to.

22:39

There are some people where their

22:41

practice of nomenogamy is just a choice. And

22:44

there's some people where their practice of

22:46

nomenogamy is a fundamental part of their identity

22:48

and to be constantly in situations where

22:50

they're having to mask that identity or

22:53

omit parts of that identity can produce a

22:56

certain form of minority stress in the way that

22:58

it may not for someone where this is maybe

23:00

this is just sort of like a private

23:02

lifestyle choice for myself, right? So bear

23:05

that in mind. But with that

23:07

said, there are a few reasons why

23:10

someone would or maybe even should want

23:12

to come out about their type of

23:14

relationship at work. The biggest one maybe

23:16

being logistical. When people are questioning why

23:19

is this important to talk about, why

23:21

should people be out at work? They

23:24

often forget how pretty much everyone

23:26

else in the mainstream gets to

23:28

be quote unquote out at work

23:30

about their relationships and their

23:32

family dynamics if they fit

23:35

into the model of a monogamous

23:37

marriage with kids especially,

23:40

right? Especially the heterosexual.

23:42

Especially the heterosexual. It's easy and it's often

23:44

assumed even. Indeed, indeed. And

23:46

that someone who's in that type

23:48

of family or relationship style most

23:51

of the time gets to discuss those things quite

23:53

freely. They get to talk about their

23:56

kids, you know, I gotta go leave

23:58

and pick up my kid or maybe Maybe even

24:00

if they're co-parenting with a divorced partner, they

24:02

can still be open about that

24:05

type of family style in a way that

24:07

people who have a different type of family

24:09

or relationship maybe can't. And

24:11

also in the workplace, assuming that

24:14

someone is monogamously partnered, that is

24:16

often taken into consideration when planning

24:18

work events or planning travel

24:21

schedules or making decisions about

24:23

who gets time off,

24:25

when, understanding your benefits options of

24:28

being able to bring a

24:30

plus one to company parties or events,

24:32

etc., etc., etc. And

24:34

so as a non-monogamous person, you often end

24:37

up needing to choose between,

24:39

okay, either I need to pick one partner

24:41

who's going to be sort of like the

24:44

facade partner, the presumed

24:46

monogamous quote unquote serious

24:48

partner, or I need to do this

24:50

thing where I treat all of my relationships as just

24:52

like really close friend, like so

24:54

close that, yes, I want to bring them to

24:57

your wedding that you just invited me to, or

24:59

treating it as though, oh, yeah,

25:01

I'm just like I'm dating, you know, and

25:03

so that's the kind of culturally accepted version

25:05

of non-monogamy where I can maybe bring different

25:07

partners at different times to different events. And

25:10

often all of those choices are not great

25:13

because it means that none of your relationships

25:15

are maybe taken as seriously as you might

25:17

want them to. They may not

25:19

be considered in the way that you

25:21

want them to, or you may find yourself running

25:23

up against facing intense personal questions

25:25

about a relationship that maybe you didn't

25:28

think that you'd be fielding. So that

25:30

may be one big area

25:32

where being out at your workplace

25:34

could help alleviate some of that

25:36

logistical strain. There are

25:39

so many different stressors that we have

25:41

to deal with in life. And

25:43

when you're non-monogamous, it's really

25:45

a question of like how

25:48

many of these stressors am I

25:50

going to continue putting on myself

25:53

in order to keep myself sort

25:55

of safe or closeted or whatever

25:57

it might be. that

26:00

kind of goes into a lot of the

26:02

things that Dedeker talked about on the logistical

26:04

side but you end

26:06

up kind of having to tally

26:08

and keep track of all of

26:10

these potential white lies or omissions

26:13

or whatever it may be

26:16

with various people in your workplace or

26:18

in your life in general. It may

26:20

be with family members, for example, things

26:22

like that. So for example,

26:25

if you are telling everybody at work,

26:27

okay, this is the person that I

26:29

live with and so this is the

26:31

person that's my partner and therefore leaving

26:33

everyone else out. Or if

26:35

there were a select group of people

26:37

at your workplace that you have told,

26:39

yeah, I actually am

26:42

dating multiple people but then

26:44

other people don't know that, then you have

26:46

to kind of keep a mental tally of

26:48

I've told this group of people and not

26:50

this group of people. And

26:52

that just becomes really fatiguing over time.

26:55

That becomes really challenging. There's

26:58

no sort of mental and emotional

27:00

freedom there because you have to

27:02

keep track of so many

27:04

different things. And

27:06

just being able to be free

27:08

in a workplace situation or in

27:10

general in life about like,

27:13

yeah, I went and saw this partner

27:15

this weekend and we had a really

27:17

great time and it was awesome. That's

27:19

so amazing and wonderful to get to

27:21

have the opportunity to do that. And

27:23

so I think just from a personal

27:25

standpoint, it can feel really liberating to

27:28

have the opportunity to say to anyone

27:31

who's in your life regardless of whether

27:34

it's a boss, a co-worker, a subordinate,

27:37

whatever, yeah, this is somebody who I'm

27:39

dating and I'm really excited about it

27:41

and how is your weekend and not

27:43

have it be freaking weird or whatever.

27:45

I think, yeah, those personal reasons are

27:48

huge and that may be a reason

27:50

why you want to come out. There's

27:53

also a kind of feeling like you're held

27:55

back from being able to just connect socially,

27:58

like you were talking about Emily. that

28:00

like, oh, how was your weekend? The

28:02

number of times where I've been in

28:04

a work situation that's with a large

28:06

enough group where, you know,

28:09

I'm like, well, I just don't want to get

28:11

into it right now. I'd rather not have the

28:13

conversation be all about this, where

28:15

people are talking about, oh, yeah, you know,

28:18

my wife and I did such and such,

28:20

the other person being like, oh, yeah, gosh,

28:22

yeah, married life, whatever, something about my kids.

28:24

And the other person says, oh, yeah, I'm

28:27

hoping, thinking about proposing to my

28:29

girlfriend sometime soon. And I'm just sort

28:31

of like, ha, nevermind. I'm just

28:33

not going to say anything. It's

28:35

like that thing of it's just easier for

28:37

me to not say anything or

28:40

to just be like, oh, yeah, totally. And

28:43

then just not offer

28:45

anything up because it's just easier. And

28:48

being able to be more fully

28:50

out, especially if you

28:52

have a department, right? So like all

28:54

the people in your department, at least,

28:56

maybe to come out to everyone at,

28:58

you know, Microsoft if you worked for

29:00

Microsoft or something, but at least people

29:02

in your department, that would be nice.

29:05

And that's again, it's something where I'm

29:07

like, maybe they all know, maybe they

29:09

don't, I don't know, because I'm out

29:11

online. But it's not something I've talked

29:13

to more than a few of

29:15

them about, right? And I just kind

29:17

of let it come up organically as needed. But

29:19

again, it's always that question of do I want

29:22

to get into this conversation or risk having to

29:24

answer a bunch of questions right now? Or

29:26

do I just not want to deal

29:29

with that? And so to Emily's point

29:31

about this whole personal reasons, it's just like,

29:33

yeah, being able to even connect and

29:35

have more genuine relationships and

29:38

conversations with your coworkers is

29:41

a really important part of the workplace, at least

29:43

for some people. So that could be a reason

29:45

for you. And then the third reason

29:47

here is societal. And that is

29:49

that in addition to the benefits to yourself

29:52

that we've been talking about, as well as

29:54

the benefits to your partners of feeling seen

29:56

and like they're not being hidden, or

29:58

they don't have to. participate in this

30:01

pretend that they're some kind of

30:03

partner or that they're not some

30:05

kind of partner, whatever it is.

30:07

It's also taking steps to make

30:10

our entire culture more accepting and

30:12

open. We've talked before on

30:14

this show about the importance

30:17

of people knowing someone personally

30:19

who has a particular identity for them

30:21

to be more accepting and understanding of

30:24

that. And often when

30:26

it comes to things like being

30:28

queer or being trans or being

30:30

non-monogamous, we do know those

30:32

people, but we don't think

30:34

that we do because they're not out about it.

30:37

And so, if you're able to

30:39

come out, you become that person that

30:41

someone knows, even if

30:43

you're not close, that then next

30:45

time something comes up about that

30:48

identity, they're less likely to just think,

30:50

oh, that's some weird other thing that I

30:52

don't know anyone who does this because they

30:54

know you. And this is

30:56

a quote actually from Diana Adams that she wrote

30:58

on a blog post. And she says, in

31:01

order to make our world more accepting of

31:03

both poly and kink, we need more wonderful

31:05

people to come out. As

31:08

you can see from the lessons

31:10

of the LGBTQ movement, positive media

31:12

representations help change culture, as

31:14

did the social science data on

31:16

the emotional health of same-sex relationships

31:18

and the success of those couples

31:20

as parents. But the ultimate driver

31:22

of this change of consciousness often

31:25

comes from knowing someone personally. If you

31:27

have the freedom and safety to be

31:29

out, whether to some people in your

31:31

life or on the internet, this

31:34

helps drive the social change we hope to see.

31:36

So I think that's a great thing to keep

31:39

in mind when you're evaluating this for yourself of,

31:41

yeah, maybe you're a little neutral on the others,

31:43

but if you feel like you can, you

31:45

could be doing good for all of us,

31:47

right? Helping all of us Move

31:50

things along. I Think that's a great note

31:52

to think about. And We're going to take

31:54

a quick break to talk about how you

31:56

can support this show before we get into

31:58

evaluating some of those risks. You

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The. Way you can do that is by taking a moment

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of course you can support us

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directly and join our communities by

32:20

going to Multi emery.com/join. Most.

32:23

Of you have probably heard me sing

32:25

the praises of prose and they're truly

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custom made to order. Haircare I did

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just using kind of whatever it was

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We talk on this show about relationships

34:29

and how important they are to your

34:32

life, how beneficial they can be, and

34:34

also how challenging they can be sometimes.

34:37

I think one of

34:39

my relationships that I am proudest

34:41

of is my relationship with Jason

34:43

Dedeker. I think we have all

34:45

really worked on our relationship over

34:48

the years. It's not always the

34:50

easiest because we have a personal

34:52

relationship and then we also have

34:54

a work relationship but it's something

34:56

that all three of us are

34:59

really proud of and something that can

35:01

help those relationships is being able to

35:03

go to therapy and talk to a

35:05

third party, talk to an objective party

35:07

about what is going on in your

35:09

relationships. And our sponsor for

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this week, BetterHelp, is going to help you

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do that. I've definitely benefited from

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working with my BetterHelp therapist for a

35:18

few years now. While I

35:20

was traveling recently, I actually found out that

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there was a feature to pause my BetterHelp membership

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then literally right when my membership unpaused, it was

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just like perfect timing because I ran into a

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36:23

close to a year now and I really

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love that it's helped prompt a lot of

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36:31

a few months ago where they asked, was

36:34

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36:36

like about you when you first started

36:38

dating? And I thought it was kind of

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36:42

think that I was hot and then Jace

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shared that I wouldn't like the fact that he didn't have a

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gosh, yeah. So Paired is fantastic.

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little games, like is this more like

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37:15

gave and some of the prompts actually

37:17

instead of having you answer with text

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will ask you to upload a photo,

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we're back and now we're gonna be talking

39:18

about the risks. Just things to bear in

39:20

mind as you're thinking about all this, thinking

39:23

about your possible reasons why you might want

39:25

to come out, these are the things to,

39:28

I guess, to be real about when you're weighing

39:30

all this up. The big

39:32

one at the top of the list

39:34

being that non-monogamy and in particular relationship

39:37

status or relationship format is

39:39

still not a protected class when

39:41

it comes to housing discrimination

39:44

or employment discrimination. So,

39:46

so far, the things that are protected in the

39:48

US are things like race, skin

39:50

color, religion, sex, gender, and under

39:53

that banner includes things like whether

39:55

or not you're pregnant, your national

39:58

origin, your age. your

40:00

disability, your genetic information, or your family

40:02

medical history. Those are all the things

40:05

that are protected. Relationship status and format

40:07

and practice still is not. Now

40:10

some states in the US may include

40:12

more and also your country if you're

40:14

not in the US may include more

40:16

or less than that. So

40:18

for example some states such as

40:20

Washington State where we are does

40:23

add certain things like marital status,

40:26

can't be a factor for

40:28

discrimination, military status. When

40:30

it comes to religion some states add

40:32

also creed. So they say

40:34

religion or creed which from

40:37

this research that I did basically

40:39

nobody knows what that actually means

40:41

from a legal standpoint. I was

40:43

like, I know it's a movie.

40:46

Yeah it's from the

40:48

definitions that I found and looking on

40:51

like some of the law like stack

40:53

exchanges and stuff like that. Basically it

40:55

seems like it's not distinct from religion

40:58

at all in the same way that

41:00

they list race and color. It's kind

41:02

of like well are those different from

41:04

each other and they're never used differently like

41:06

there's not any case law where

41:09

it was one and not the other.

41:11

So there's not any case law currently

41:13

that distinguishes between creed and religion except

41:15

for the fact that they're listed as

41:17

two separate things on these non-discrimination lists.

41:20

Yeah but with race and color it makes sense to

41:22

me because colorism is a thing that you

41:24

can still be discriminating based on someone's

41:26

skin color even if like the two of you are

41:28

the same race for instance. Yeah and then

41:31

also other things that can be on this

41:33

list are things like having a service animal,

41:36

your HIV or hepatitis C

41:38

status, whether you've been

41:40

a whistleblower or you're involved in

41:42

some kind of discrimination lawsuit against

41:44

someone that these are protected things

41:46

in some states as well. So

41:49

it is worth investigating that seeing what

41:51

might apply to you. In researching

41:53

this episode One thing that

41:56

makes it a little difficult is that companies

41:58

generally speaking, do not really... Their

42:00

employee handbook publicly. So.

42:02

That's not a thing that's easy to

42:05

get a lot of information about, but

42:07

I do have one here and I

42:09

won't say what the company is, but

42:11

I'll just say this is an international

42:14

company. around two thousand employees but based

42:16

in the U S but has people

42:18

around the world. So you know, compared

42:20

to a start up huge compared to

42:23

Apple or Google or Walmart or Target

42:25

or something. absolutely miniscule selling a dry

42:27

on any of as yard any other

42:29

men are you doing process of elimination

42:32

as if. Yeah, you've narrowed it down to

42:34

like a million times in his he just hook.

42:36

So. What? What's interesting is that

42:39

this employee handbook is. Let me

42:41

just double check this. Is.

42:43

In total, three hundred and thirty

42:45

eight pages, One. Incredibly.

42:48

Long right? Here's the funny

42:50

part. The actual employee handbook

42:52

is only the first seventy

42:54

two pages. What's. The rest.

42:56

Is. All the had done the for all

42:59

the different states. While versus

43:01

the hoop. much extra stuff for

43:03

Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia

43:05

Like everyone has their own special

43:07

a dhanda about all sorts of

43:09

different things, some of which are

43:11

discrimination as well as many other

43:13

things like paid leave, medical leave

43:16

rules that are different, unemployment laws

43:18

that are different. Lots of stuff

43:20

but just to give you a

43:22

sense of how ito at least

43:24

two thirds of this document or

43:26

just state specific to really give

43:28

you a sense of how. Much

43:30

this can vary. From. Place to

43:33

place even within the same country says

43:35

just keep that in mind and and

43:37

take a look at your employee manual

43:39

even if it might be. Three.

43:41

Hundred pisses off. So. Something.

43:43

Something about in terms of what

43:45

you are protected about. And so

43:48

we we talked about these certain

43:50

protected classes that include things like

43:52

religion and sexual orientation, gender identity,

43:54

stuff like that. There are also

43:56

a few others that apply to

43:58

any at will. Employees.

44:00

Switches: Most states work about

44:03

where is at. Well, we're

44:05

basically either the employee or

44:07

the employer can. Terminate.

44:09

That contract at any time. There

44:12

are though some things that you

44:14

cannot be terminated for. So.

44:16

One of those is retaliation. So.

44:19

Employers can't fire employees.

44:21

For. Exercising their legal rights

44:24

such as filing a

44:26

discrimination complaint or reporting

44:28

harassment. Or. Participating in

44:30

an investigation into that workplace.

44:32

Another. One is for a

44:35

violation of public policy. Or.

44:37

Rather of for not violating public policy against

44:39

would be a better way to put that.

44:42

And I basically means that an

44:44

employer cannot fire an employee for

44:46

reasons that violate public policy. Such.

44:48

As the employee refusing to break

44:51

the law. Because. The employer

44:53

ask them to or if an

44:55

employee reports illegal activity, whistleblowing that's

44:57

going on or exercising specific rights

45:00

like voting are taking medical and

45:02

family leave that you can't be

45:04

fired for doing those things which

45:07

are public policy. And. Then

45:09

the fourth one is. Breach.

45:11

Of Contract. So if an

45:13

employee has a written, oral

45:15

or implied employment contract that

45:17

guarantees some amount of job

45:20

security or specifies specific reasons

45:22

for termination, Terminating. Someone

45:24

for reasons that don't sit. that and

45:26

before that term. Is. Also illegal.

45:29

Suggest. Some things to be aware of

45:31

and actually take a look at your

45:33

employee contract to get to understand. Those

45:35

things are a little bit deeper as

45:37

much as you can and it can

45:39

really very. Again, from state

45:41

to state, but there are at least

45:44

certain things that you can count on

45:46

of being there in the law when

45:48

looking over your employment contract. One important

45:50

thing to look for is what's referred

45:52

to as a morality clause. And essentially

45:55

a morality clause is something that. Companies.

45:57

can put in there that allows them

46:00

to discharge an employee for

46:03

off-duty conduct. So

46:05

something they do outside of the workplace

46:08

that breaches the employer's ethical

46:10

expectations that's in their

46:13

employment agreement. And this is

46:15

often left intentionally vague. So

46:17

it's basically if you are

46:19

found to have done

46:21

something that

46:23

they see to be terrible that would make

46:26

their image look bad, that they

46:28

can fire you for that, right? That that's something

46:30

that's put in the contract. And I think it's

46:32

understandable why you might have something like that, where

46:34

it's like, oh, it comes out that this person

46:37

is, I don't know what,

46:39

child molester or something. It's like, yeah, we wanna be

46:42

able to terminate this person. No questions asked immediately and

46:44

say, yes, we took action as soon as we could.

46:46

And we don't want them to then say, well,

46:48

that wasn't a reason in the contract that

46:51

you could fire me, so I'm gonna sue

46:53

you for it. I get it. However, when

46:55

it comes to morality, that's

46:58

a gray area.

47:00

Slishy, sloshy, wibbly, wobbly

47:03

gray area, right? So

47:05

it is something that may be

47:08

worth clarifying. This is actually when we

47:10

were researching this episode and I came

47:12

across that, because it was mentioned in

47:14

one of the resources

47:17

that Open, Organizing for Polyamory

47:19

and Ethical Non-Monogamy group put

47:21

out. They talked about these morality clauses.

47:23

I was like, yeah, I should check that in my employee

47:25

handbook. And I looked it up and just, luckily

47:28

was able to get a PDF of it and

47:30

was able to search in that, made it easier

47:32

to find it. And specifically,

47:34

it actually had mentioned in a

47:36

few places in the non-discrimination language,

47:39

saying this is not meant

47:41

to police the morality of our employees, but

47:44

just to make this a safe place for

47:46

people who work here. And so

47:48

they actually kind of went out of their way to

47:50

say, no, we're not trying to police morality in

47:53

this document, which I was like,

47:55

okay, that's good to see that. And nothing jumped

47:57

out to me as like, ooh, yikes, they could get me for

47:59

that. that. But it is worth checking yours

48:01

and seeing if you might have something like that in

48:04

there. We actually, Dedeker

48:06

went through this with her book and we went

48:08

through this with our book of if you see

48:10

that in a contract saying, hey, actually, can we

48:12

change the wording on this? And,

48:14

you know, to make it clear that what we're

48:16

doing you would not decide is

48:19

amoral, right, to be a non-monogamous

48:21

relationship. Yeah. And I mean,

48:24

that sounds maybe ridiculous because in both those

48:26

examples, we're talking about a publishing contract where

48:28

someone is agreeing to publish a book that...

48:31

Is about non-monogamy. ...is about non-monogamy. Right. But

48:34

it just, you know, it's still always good to

48:36

dot your I's and cross your T's and just

48:38

make doubly sure because you never know. You just

48:40

never know. Dedeker, you're nothing if

48:42

not thorough. I am thorough. It's true.

48:45

Yes. With all of these

48:47

different examples that we just talked about,

48:49

we do want to throw out there

48:52

as an armchair observation and as an

48:54

observation that I have literally seen in

48:56

my own workplace. Wrongful termination

48:58

is really, really difficult to prove

49:01

even if you are in a

49:03

protected class. And

49:05

there's a lot of stories

49:07

out there and some that I

49:10

have personally seen firsthand and heard

49:12

my employers tell supervisors just don't

49:14

put this person on the schedule

49:16

anymore, for example, or, you know,

49:19

kind of in essence make their

49:21

life miserable at work so that

49:23

they end up leaving without terminating

49:25

them because they don't

49:27

like them, for example. A

49:30

lot of those things can happen

49:32

and do happen and unless there

49:34

are like very specific writing down of

49:37

absolutely everything that happened or text messages

49:39

or emails or whatever, it can be

49:41

really difficult to prove. So that is

49:44

just something to put out there in

49:46

terms of assessing your risk in

49:48

regards to all of these things. And

49:51

again, non-monogamy or relationship status isn't a

49:53

protected class. So that may be something

49:55

to think about here. Also

49:57

something that we found out about here is that we have a lot of people who are trying

50:00

in that Human Rights Campaign survey from

50:02

earlier, the people who were

50:04

out in their workplace said

50:07

that 25% of LGBTQ

50:09

workers have felt distracted

50:11

at work after they came

50:14

out. Also 28%

50:16

have lied about their personal life

50:18

and 31% have felt unhappy

50:20

or depressed because of an

50:22

unwelcoming work environment even though

50:25

being a gay person or

50:27

being LGBTQ is a protected class.

50:30

So that's just a little something to think

50:32

about as well is that even

50:34

if you do come out, there is

50:36

still a possibility that you may not

50:39

feel great even when you do.

50:41

I think something that we've

50:43

found and something that I've experienced for

50:45

sure in my workplace is this

50:47

idea that like all of a sudden because you

50:50

talk about the fact that you're non-monogamous that it

50:52

makes it a lot easier for people to see

50:54

you as more of a

50:56

sexual object and want to come

50:58

on to you at work, I still

51:00

have this happen even though I'm currently

51:02

in a monogamous relationship. I have a

51:04

lot of people back of house, a

51:07

lot of my customers who just

51:09

kind of think it's like okay to

51:11

be super sexual with me

51:14

even though I'm not putting

51:16

it out there at all. So

51:18

I think that that is something to

51:20

think about in relation to this that

51:23

some people just may have ideas

51:25

about the kind of person that

51:28

you are, the kind of advances

51:30

you may allow or not because

51:32

you're non-monogamous. So maybe

51:34

do things to protect yourself in terms of

51:36

that and maybe get better at saying no

51:39

or saying how dare you, better

51:41

than I think. I was going to say something worse

51:43

than that but how

51:46

dare you. I think

51:49

The point of all of this is not to

51:51

scare you off and say it's going to be

51:53

terrible. Don't come out because we did just give

51:55

some great reasons why. it is wonderful to be

51:57

more out at work, even if that's not going

51:59

to happen. Wheatley out but to be more out

52:01

is great. But. More to be

52:04

realistic about assessing your risks

52:06

and realizing that just because

52:08

there might be some legal

52:10

protections in place, Doesn't.

52:12

Mean that you want to get to the point where

52:14

you have to use those. And. It

52:16

doesn't mean that that's not an issue

52:19

at all, right? As a lot of

52:21

actors to think about and so really,

52:23

taking time to evaluate should I come

52:25

out is really important. And that's

52:27

all you want to talk about. Now for the

52:29

rest of this episode. and then. In. Part

52:32

to is where we're going to

52:34

get into some more concrete steps

52:36

for how to do that coming

52:38

out process. In a way

52:41

to try to keep it safe,

52:43

keep it gradual, protect yourself as

52:45

much as possible, both in a

52:48

legal way as well as just

52:50

a social way. And. So we're

52:52

gonna get into more of those things next week.

52:54

But for now, let's focus on. Can.

52:56

How do we? Process. All this information. How

52:59

do we make a choice? here? Yeah. So

53:01

it is used the loosely. This whole episode

53:03

and you're thinking that you might be ready

53:05

to come out. We're. Going to give

53:07

you a bunch of questions here. at the end it's

53:09

gonna be your homework. You know, so these

53:11

are good questions. Even just a to on

53:13

and think about or if you want to write

53:15

them down and journal about them. To. Six

53:18

I get your ducks. In a row

53:20

and get a sense of what sort of

53:22

situation are you actually say same? hear? This

53:25

first set of questions has to

53:27

do with safety or security. At

53:30

your workplace. Or within your whole job

53:32

situation. Hot sits in a nice. First.

53:34

Question being, could I

53:36

survive without? This job. How.

53:39

Badly do I need this

53:41

particular job? Again, not

53:44

to scare you, but of course just

53:46

wanting to be thorough in really examining

53:48

the full broad spectrum of the possible

53:50

risks that could be on the table

53:52

here. Next. Question. Do

53:55

I know anyone else at my work place,

53:57

in my company, or in my city who

53:59

is. Also out at or. How.

54:02

Has their experience then. This.

54:04

Is when it is, There's no one who

54:06

comes top of mind for you. This is

54:09

a great place to start looking into online

54:11

resources. If you're part of online communities, you

54:13

can ask for people's experiences, especially if you

54:15

work for a company that is you know,

54:17

national say. they have many different branches and

54:19

so you can find people online who might

54:21

be out finding people in your city. Things

54:24

like that. Sucks. Question. What?

54:26

Is my company culture? Like. How

54:29

realistic do I think it is

54:31

that people will discriminate against me?

54:34

And. Yeah, this is something where I

54:36

think it's important pay attention to about. Like.

54:38

Okay, really though, what are the chances that

54:41

I think that someone could discriminate against me?

54:43

What? Are the ways that it seems realistic

54:45

that they might you know? Like I think

54:47

it's important to get clear. About okay

54:50

and knowing my boss had no my boss

54:52

for a long time. it's probably unrealistic that

54:54

my boss would try to fire me or

54:56

make my life miserable, but maybe it is

54:58

realistic that this. Care and in

55:00

the corner might have some kind of smart woman

55:02

to say. You don't like it like

55:04

a think? It's ok to take inventory of that, just

55:06

to prepare yourself for a. Something.

55:08

That's a little bit more intense,

55:11

perhaps, but. May. Or

55:13

may not be something that you

55:15

need to worry about is if

55:18

there's a shoot him and physical

55:20

danger if you came out in

55:22

your area with certain other coworkers

55:25

for example, just bear that in

55:27

mind and. That's. A

55:30

possible risk assessments to

55:32

do. When thinking about should

55:34

I come out or not, am I okay

55:36

without risk? Am I not okay? Is

55:38

that really something I need to worry about? Are not. also

55:41

will this affect anyone elses safety

55:43

we're talking about your children for

55:46

example or other partners or maybe

55:48

coworkers who are allies things like

55:50

that there is a possibility of

55:53

the ads people will be discriminated

55:55

against because they are really related

55:58

to you or they are close

56:00

to you or they care about

56:02

you. So that's something to

56:04

consider. And then also, like

56:07

we talked about before, check your employment

56:09

contract for that morality clause and then

56:11

if it does exist, check with a

56:13

lawyer about the specifics of that because

56:16

you don't want to get in a

56:18

situation where, okay, I'm out at

56:20

work now and then I get

56:23

fired because somebody thinks that's amoral

56:25

to be non-monogamous. Something

56:27

that we will get into more in

56:29

the second part is the importance of

56:31

finding allies. And this

56:33

could be someone who is also non-monogamous

56:36

if you find them at your workplace

56:38

or just someone who's supportive, someone that

56:40

you feel comfortable enough with to evaluate

56:43

that. They can also be

56:45

a really good resource for helping you

56:47

evaluate some of these other things. Now

56:49

keep in mind, like I mentioned at the beginning

56:51

of this episode with my coworker, he's like, I

56:54

don't know why you would feel the need to

56:56

hide this at all. So like they might not

56:58

get it, but they can at least be

57:00

someone to talk about and get a sense

57:02

of it. If your work

57:05

has a diversity,

57:07

equity, and inclusion department reaching out

57:09

to someone in there, they might

57:11

help you connect with other people.

57:14

Whatever it is, finding some allies to help you

57:16

suss these things out can be really helpful. And

57:19

then also, some more questions for your

57:21

homework is to evaluate your reasons. Why

57:24

do you want to come out? And there

57:26

aren't any wrong answers here, but they can help

57:28

you get some clarity about your

57:30

reasons and might help you in making

57:33

a plan for how you want to

57:35

come out. So the first of

57:37

these is just why? Why do you want

57:39

to come out? Is there a particular

57:42

reason? Or maybe there's a

57:44

particular person or a few

57:46

people that you wish you could speak

57:48

more freely about your relationships with? If

57:51

so, get a sense of that. That might give you

57:53

a Sense of the scope of

57:55

how big do I want to come out? How

57:58

many people do I want to talk to? You

58:00

about this? Another. Question is:

58:02

is it about the mental effort

58:04

of keeping things secret and keeping

58:06

things hidden? That might.

58:09

Involve a different type of coming out or

58:11

is this about making more awareness for others?

58:14

may be are coming out would be a

58:16

little bit different are you might be a

58:18

little bit more outspoken about it If you

58:20

feel really secure in your employment and that

58:23

you couldn't handle micro aggressions they came along

58:25

in your not too concerned maybe you do

58:27

want to be. Louder. About it.

58:29

I guess we could say it again. Will talk about that

58:31

more next week. But. Just evaluating where

58:33

you fall on that spectrum. Can.

58:36

Help you make a plan and help you make

58:38

these decisions. And and also to

58:40

ask yourself honestly. Is. This

58:42

just because you're excited

58:44

about recently discovering non

58:46

monogamy. I. Describe it kind

58:48

of like and Ori with new relationship

58:50

energy. All that excitement for polyamory or

58:52

for non monogamy first started like the

58:54

relationship style because you've finally sound it

58:56

and oh my gosh, it's amazing. Like

58:59

this is what I wanted my whole

59:01

life. I'm so excited I want to

59:03

tell everybody about it. Is that your

59:05

reason why you want to come out?

59:07

And I think there's a little bit

59:09

of have. Two. Sides do it

59:11

again as not necessarily a bad thing.

59:13

it says something to be aware of

59:15

to to think about. One

59:17

of the negatives of that is that. When.

59:20

Questioned you don't have as much

59:22

historical evidence to point out and

59:24

say. Oh, yeah, we've been doing

59:26

this for ten years or of the I've

59:28

been doing this for twenty years or or

59:30

even five years, whatever it. Gives.

59:32

You a little bit more of a sense of. Okay,

59:35

This is a real decision and not

59:37

just essays which is you know we've

59:40

talked about many times as a common

59:42

thing. That's. Thrown at. People

59:44

were non monogamous, but. That.

59:46

Excitement might be something that helps

59:48

you push through that initial. Challenge.

59:51

Coming out and maybe as you don't. You'll.

59:53

Just end up going several more years without

59:55

doing it as after a while it's like,

59:57

well, As. Hidden it so long now

59:59

seals weird to come out about it. So

1:00:02

there's pros and cons to both, but either

1:00:04

way, it's worth being really honest with yourself

1:00:06

about how much of a factor. That as.

1:00:08

If. You're going back and forth with

1:00:11

all of this trying to figure out

1:00:13

should I come out, should I nod

1:00:15

and you need some support? Joining a

1:00:17

community is a really great wage to

1:00:20

assess and get outside help in this

1:00:22

decision. so we do have some resources

1:00:24

for community support. one of them is

1:00:27

to join our discord community. We have

1:00:29

one public channel on our Discord community

1:00:31

that anyone can join and if you

1:00:33

become a supporter Admiralty, emery.com/joy and then

1:00:36

you can also see a ton of

1:00:38

channels including. One specifically about

1:00:40

work. Also. You can

1:00:42

join the Open Discord Server Open

1:00:44

is the nonprofit that we've been

1:00:46

talking about this whole episode. They're

1:00:48

working to advance the non monogamy

1:00:50

movement in general and their discord

1:00:52

has a specific channel and it

1:00:54

for people working on changing workplace

1:00:56

policies and culture just as a

1:00:58

part of this channel. So you

1:01:00

can go to their site open-love.org

1:01:02

and then click the discord length

1:01:04

at the top. or if you're

1:01:06

having a difficult time during the

1:01:09

discord maybe like me who. Had.

1:01:11

To get just to help. Major in our

1:01:13

own discord. Been some them a message. And

1:01:16

lastly, the three of us also now

1:01:18

have a fair amount of experience presenting

1:01:20

on this topic at workplaces we presented

1:01:22

on the Google campus a few years

1:01:25

ago. I recently this year presented to

1:01:27

a bunch of therapist at Some Attic

1:01:29

Experiencing International specifically. About how to support.

1:01:31

Now. Monogamous clients and create a more

1:01:34

inclusive practice so says the same.

1:01:36

Really? Motivated to be a part of this

1:01:38

change and we know that many of you out

1:01:40

there are also motivated to be a part of

1:01:42

the scenes as well. So go ahead and like

1:01:45

Citizen Emailed Insight Multi Am A.com as you think

1:01:47

that bringing us and your workplace would be something

1:01:49

that would help. Awesome! We would

1:01:51

also love to hear from all of you. how

1:01:54

open are you about non monogamy

1:01:56

at work if that applies to

1:01:58

you of course Or I would

1:02:00

say even if you're not, a cool, fun way to

1:02:02

answer that question would be, do you

1:02:04

know people who are out about being non-monogamous at

1:02:06

your work? And if you

1:02:08

don't and your company has more

1:02:11

than 20 people, chances are statistics

1:02:13

say you've got at least

1:02:15

one non-monogamous person who's probably keeping it

1:02:17

secret. So just something to think

1:02:19

about out there. We would love

1:02:21

to hear from you. That will be on our

1:02:23

Instagram stories. Also, if you want

1:02:25

to discuss this further, as we mentioned,

1:02:27

we have a Discord community and we

1:02:29

have in there an episode discussion channel

1:02:32

as well. And you

1:02:34

can join there, post in that, or

1:02:36

you can post questions and start conversations

1:02:38

in our private Facebook group. You

1:02:41

can get access to both of

1:02:43

these groups and join our exclusive

1:02:45

community by going to multiamory.com/join. In

1:02:48

addition, you can share with us

1:02:50

publicly on Facebook, TikTok, Threads, Instagram,

1:02:52

wherever we are on the social

1:02:54

medias. Multiamory

1:02:56

is created and produced by Emily

1:02:58

Matlack, Dedeker Winston, and me, Jace

1:03:00

Lindgren. Our production assistants are

1:03:02

Rachel Chenowerk and Karthyn Collins. Our

1:03:05

theme song is Forms I Know I Did

1:03:07

by Josh An-Anand from the Fractal Cave EP.

1:03:10

The full transcript is available on

1:03:12

this episode's page on multiamory.com.