0:00

Hey, quick favor. We are conducting

0:02

an audience survey. We'd be really grateful

0:04

if you could take just a few minutes and answer

0:07

it. Please visit survey.prx.org

0:11

slash gossip to take the survey today.

0:13

That's survey.prx.org

0:16

slash gossip. Thank you. Hello

0:20

and welcome to the penultimate episode

0:22

of

0:26

normal gossip. Penultimate means second

0:28

to last. So bad news, the episode

0:30

next week is the last one of the season. But good

0:32

news, you have this one and you have the one next

0:34

week. So incredible. We love it. I'm

0:37

Kelsey McKinney. And in each episode of this podcast,

0:39

we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip

0:41

from the real world. I am so excited

0:44

to have with me today two special

0:46

guests. Sally Tamarkin

0:48

has been an editor and writer since 2014. Before that, they

0:51

were a community organizer.

0:52

They love playing tabletop role-playing

0:55

games and hanging out with their best friend television.

0:58

You can find her online on Twitter at

1:01

Sally T and her website is at sally.gay.

1:04

Caroline Moss is also here. Caroline

1:06

has been the host of G Thanks Just Bought It, a podcast

1:09

about the things we buy and love since 2019.

1:12

She's the author of Hey Ladies and the Work

1:14

It kids book series and an alumni of

1:16

many 2010s media outlets. You

1:19

can find her on Instagram at g thanks

1:21

just bought it pod. Caroline and Sally,

1:23

welcome to the pod. I'm so glad you're here. Thank

1:25

you for coming.

1:27

Thank you for having us. Thank

1:29

you for having us. Thrilled to be

1:31

here. How are you both doing? Tell me

1:33

about your day. I mean, I'm doing I'm

1:35

doing great. I will say there

1:38

is a there's an ice

1:40

cream truck that's been parked on my block,

1:42

perhaps right outside my window. It feels and

1:44

sounds like for a while.

1:47

So I apologize in advance if you're hearing a

1:49

jingle nonstop forever in your

1:51

brain. What level of sanity

1:54

are you currently at? Like, is it? Yeah.

1:57

You know, the emoji

1:58

with like the spider? rolls for eyes.

2:00

Yes. Mm hmm. That's I'm that

2:03

currently. Okay. I will. I'm worried

2:05

about that. Caroline, do you also have

2:07

an ice cream truck outside your house?

2:09

No, but my day is going great because early

2:11

this morning I sent an ice cream truck to sell this

2:13

house just to sit outside and idle for

2:16

a few hours. So I'm glad to know

2:18

I'm getting my money's worth. Um,

2:27

both want to start me off with the classic question

2:30

and tell me what your relationship with gossip is.

2:32

Yeah, I personally love it.

2:35

Um, you know, my senior year

2:38

of high school, I'll

2:39

have you know, 2005, um, I

2:42

was voted, um, biggest

2:44

drama queen and that was different than most

2:47

theatrical and I want everyone to just

2:49

understand that this had nothing to do with

2:51

being a theater kid, which I was, but I think it

2:53

was my pred election for gossip

2:56

that

2:56

awarded me biggest drama

2:58

queen, but they took it away from me

3:01

because they were like, this, this feels mean.

3:03

It feels like a mean one and we're not, we're not going

3:05

to do it. They had already not because we were like, they had already

3:08

named you, but we were like, it's not mean. Yeah.

3:10

Like we were, it was like, we, like, everyone voted

3:13

and we got the votes and it was like,

3:15

Max and I were like, don't take it away. It's not mean.

3:17

And they were like, no, no, no, this is very mean to you. And we're

3:19

like, it's not mean. We want this. What

3:24

are the gosspiest communities that you've each

3:26

been a part of? Oh, media.

3:29

Like all of media, New York media.

3:31

It's not even a question for you.

3:33

I would say, yeah, for sure. Media, media

3:35

in like an IRL experience,

3:37

especially when I lived in New York and was a little

3:39

younger. Um, I, there

3:42

is one community online that I'm a part of. Um,

3:45

I've talked a little bit about Angie things a long time ago,

3:47

but I don't want to give away the Facebook group of you

3:49

message me privately. I will direct you to it.

3:52

There is a, um,

3:53

a Facebook group for people who identify

3:55

as women who love bath and body work. Okay.

3:59

And there's a lot of.

3:59

and fighting and it's like thousands

4:02

and thousands of women. What are they fighting

4:04

about? Oh, what aren't they fighting

4:06

about? Like I would say the biggest, the

4:08

biggest like source, if you want to

4:10

get some engagement, if you're looking for

4:12

an argument, if you just need that dopamine

4:15

hit of seeing comment after comment, it's the people

4:17

who show up on candle day. Bath and Body Works

4:19

does this thing called candle day where their three wit

4:21

candles are like 1195 instead of 2495. And

4:24

people. The purge. Bath and Body Works. The purge.

4:28

Yeah, absolutely. And people have

4:30

their favorites and there's no limit to how

4:32

many you can buy. And so people will

4:34

post their halls and then it starts

4:37

fights in the comments about like, you

4:39

know, we live in a society and

4:41

also like, you know, there wasn't a rule.

4:44

I can get 60 candles. And

4:46

then the other thing about that community that I love,

4:48

that's not necessarily gossip, but I do

4:50

go there for all of the information I like bring

4:52

to parties. So I guess for me, it's gossip is

4:55

that there is some sort of, um,

4:57

people don't seem to burn the candles. It's

5:00

more like collections. So they have like storage

5:02

units full of unburned candles.

5:05

Imagine walking into Bath and Body Works

5:07

for five, for five minutes and smelling,

5:10

but it would smell so good. One

5:13

candle in a room smells good. Like 80

5:16

different scented candles. It's

5:22

full of Bath and Body Works candles. Oh no, Sally's

5:24

gonna about to admit candles.

5:26

They have on comedy

5:27

candles. I'm just saying

5:30

like you have a storage unit full, it burns out

5:32

and you open your window in the morning and you get

5:34

that Frisia and Juniper Breeze

5:37

just wafting in.

5:39

What's not to like? There's

5:40

also like, um, aspects of that group.

5:43

They've started sort of doing like a weird

5:45

MLM inside of the candle group

5:48

where you, you like,

5:50

like you pay. I mean, look, I, I always want

5:52

to get in there and be like, ladies, when

5:55

someone asked you to pay, tell them to enter, you know, it's

5:57

not a raffle, but it's definitely one of the classic.

5:59

It's like you find 20 people to enter

6:02

for $10. And then whoever wins at the top

6:04

wins this whole thing. And it's like, it's

6:06

a separate group from the candle group, but

6:08

you can only get there through the candle group. It's like that bar

6:10

in Manhattan with the hot dogs. Yeah. Seriously,

6:14

I like Sarah Koenig, like call me. Honestly,

6:17

no, Kelsey, this should be like a spin off of

6:19

normal gossip investigations. Normal

6:23

candles. The second candle

6:25

group

6:26

is really C.

6:27

Well, the second group you can only get

6:30

into if they call it, they call

6:32

it like get active, stay active. So you

6:34

have to sort of like commit a level of

6:36

personal engagement in the original candle group

6:38

to be invited into the group where you can like win and

6:41

I do a big air quote Chanel

6:43

bags. So it's a lot, but

6:45

I'm obsessed with it. And

6:48

that's media is my favorite IRL

6:51

community of gossip

6:54

and general. And then

6:56

the Bath and Body Works candle group is my online

6:58

community. My two, my two home. I want to do like a 21

7:00

Jump Street thing where we get into

7:03

the one of us goes into the group and just goes

7:05

undercover and just try to figure out, you

7:07

know, just bring them down from the inside kind of a thing. I

7:09

think that's a great idea. Sally, truly, you guys,

7:12

you're not the first people to think of it. Like so many people, there's

7:14

there's so many people I've heard because I just. OK,

7:17

I spent a lot of time thinking about this group. There's

7:19

so many people have tried and they get caught and they get

7:21

like banned immediately, so like I won't even I won't

7:24

even. I'm ready to call the feds on

7:26

the person who leads that second MLM group,

7:28

though, because there is something really financially

7:30

stable. On

7:33

unstable happening. Yeah, we

7:35

are always saying on this show to be

7:38

aware and be careful around Facebook groups, they

7:40

are dangerous places and candles

7:43

because only you can prevent for two really

7:45

good safety tips. OK,

7:48

OK, last question, and then we will do the

7:50

story because both of

7:52

you talk about products often

7:55

and like purchasing products. I would like to talk about

7:57

the relationship between like

7:58

word of.

7:59

mouth and gossip, right?

8:02

So hearing like everyone's using

8:04

this or every celebrity is getting,

8:06

you know, eye bag filler

8:09

or whatever it is, right? The kind of like thin

8:11

line between gossip and word of mouth and how that

8:13

plays into like, choosing what

8:16

you buy and how you

8:16

interact in the world. Oh,

8:19

I mean, that's sort of why

8:21

we I started do you think just bought

8:23

it? And I know we didn't mention at

8:25

the top of the show, but Sally now

8:27

co hosts the podcast arm of do

8:29

you think she's bought it with me? But it's also a Facebook group and

8:31

it's an Instagram group and Instagram

8:33

community.

8:35

You know, it kind of started because it's like you really

8:37

like don't know who to

8:39

trust. And I wanted to build a community of people

8:42

that,

8:43

you know, it's not necessarily why, like, do you think isn't

8:45

really about the wire, like wire cutter, like I'm not looking

8:47

for the best of anything. But I am kind of looking

8:49

for a place where people can be like, a great example,

8:52

this is like there was a big sort of conversation

8:54

about strollers, like which is the best? And then

8:56

the answer was that like, there is no best stroller.

8:59

But I can tell you, if you live in a city

9:01

and using the stroller as your while you're

9:03

walking is your like, number one way of transportation, this

9:05

stroller is much better on pivoting

9:08

than the other one. This one packs up and fits in

9:10

the car better. And that might be more important to you. And

9:12

you get kind of reviews

9:13

from real people who are like, Hey, this is my life.

9:15

If this sounds like you, this is the thing that worked for me, rather

9:18

than being like, we have this like weird rubric

9:20

that no one really totally understands,

9:22

but like, this is the best. And then you're like,

9:25

I don't know what that means. Or you kind of feel duped when

9:27

you get it. And you're like, this wasn't the best for

9:29

me at all. A thing that also

9:31

we like, I really try to strive at

9:33

G things and Sally too, just because we do

9:36

the show together now is that like, there's so many people sometimes

9:38

DM and they're like, Oh, I love that like the suitcase

9:40

you're talking about, but I love my suitcase. So should

9:42

I still get this one? I'm like, No, you

9:44

love the thing you have. I'm like, this

9:47

is for the people who don't love the thing they have or don't

9:49

have the thing and need the thing. But like

9:51

the amount of people who are like, I'm already totally 100%

9:53

fulfilled by this thing. Do I need to replace

9:56

it with this thing? I'm like, Oh my God, no, literally

9:58

never.

9:59

And don't ask me again. Yeah.

10:02

Yeah, exactly. Don Draper was always saying that. But

10:06

a purchase isn't going to match up to

10:08

the aesthetic

10:10

that is also presented as the context

10:13

to that purchase. It's like, oh,

10:15

this thing looks amazing in your home because your

10:17

home looks amazing. Your home is beautiful

10:20

because there's lots of other expensive things in your home.

10:22

That's why this thing looks so great because

10:24

the backdrop of it is so, so nice. So

10:27

it's on the consumer, I think, to be a little bit more

10:29

conscious. But I also think it's like, yeah,

10:32

trust the experts. But also know that

10:35

you know what's best. Yeah. Are

10:37

you ready? You want to do a gossip? Let's do a gossip.

10:40

I'm so ready. Let's do one gossip as a treat.

10:43

And gossip.

10:44

It's top intellectual property! Classic

10:46

gossip for people with intellectual disabilities

10:50

to be doing a great job of everyday

10:52

business. The eldest continent of mortality

10:53

flatlays out focusing on aspects of life that

10:55

prevent them from understanding ones physical

10:57

shuffle as theohmic for mathematical experts

11:01

utilize that aspect of life jewelers as a tool

11:03

that most people don't start with

11:07

because they don't have that depth of dimension. Problem

11:10

solving isn't all about the terms on a list.

11:13

Quote today at progressive.com. Progressive

11:15

Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National

11:17

average 12 month savings of $698 by

11:21

new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive

11:23

between June 2021 and May 2022. Potential

11:26

savings will vary, discounts not available in

11:29

all states and situations.

11:32

It is a

11:34

morning in July. The

11:37

sun

11:39

is out, the air is hot. We

11:42

are packing a car. We're

11:45

checking our little list for the things that we need. We're

11:47

picking out the tunes on our phone. We're like doing

11:50

the Google Maps, right? Our

11:52

friend of a friend, we're going to call her Rose and

11:55

her fiance are leaving the city late.

11:57

She's doing the checklist on her phone. And when she's looking at it,

11:59

It's like already past the time that they're supposed

12:02

to be gone. Stressful. Yeah. By

12:04

the time the car is on the road, it's an hour

12:07

after they wanted to leave.

12:09

And she texts her family and is like, Sally's

12:11

already panicking. I'm breathing in time. I'm

12:14

already mad. I'm literally already

12:16

mad at her partner. So, okay. She texts her

12:18

family and is like, we're on our way. But

12:20

they're not really on their way because they are in one of

12:22

those cities that's not directly next to a highway. So

12:24

it takes like forever to get out

12:27

of the city and onto the highway. How

12:29

are we feeling currently? You

12:31

both look terrified.

12:34

I'm sweating.

12:36

No. I'm feeling no. My answer

12:38

is no. I feel horrible. I feel personally

12:40

attacked. This is so stressful. This

12:43

is so stressful. And the amount of work

12:45

I've done on myself to not be someone who falls

12:47

apart when travel plans

12:50

get like messed up. Leaving late

12:52

out of a city. Yeah, I can't. Are

12:56

you kidding? Leaving late

12:58

out of a city that's not on a highway when there's like only like, kind

13:00

of like only a few inroads. Also, you said it's late in the

13:03

day. So I'm picturing rush hour traffic. Also,

13:05

it's hot because it's

13:06

July. Yeah. Oh my God. It's a nightmare.

13:09

Rose is stressed because they're

13:11

going upstate. They're going like to the woods,

13:14

right? And they're not just going upstate

13:16

for the weekend with her family. They're going upstate for

13:18

her wedding. Rose's wedding. Rose's

13:21

wedding. Wow.

13:22

Wait, who is Rose traveling? Her fiance.

13:26

Oh, that wedding is not happening. They

13:30

have, Rose is like, I have a lot to do,

13:32

right? Like Rose is like, the rehearsal is

13:34

tonight. I haven't done my nails.

13:37

My like makeup is not done.

13:39

And we are an hour late.

13:41

And she's comforting herself by being like, it's

13:44

fine. It's fine. We're going to get there.

13:46

I would, I am, I'm, I

13:48

need to be on bed rest. Can, because I know

13:51

if this is a part of the story, that's okay. But I'm

13:53

curious about what the fiance is

13:55

saying or doing throughout this.

13:58

So the fiance is not super important.

13:59

to this entire story, but the fiance

14:02

is like chill and separate, right? The fiance

14:04

is like, it's fine. It's our weekend.

14:06

Okay. We'll get there when we get there.

14:09

Okay. But like, is it the fiance's fault that they're late

14:11

because there could be nothing worse to me than the fiance being

14:14

like, no, it's fine. I'm like, it's actually not fine.

14:16

It's actually your fault. Rose is not

14:18

as stressed as the two of you. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's helpful.

14:21

That's helpful. Okay.

14:23

Okay. Okay. Okay.

14:25

They're on the interstate, five million years

14:27

on the interstate, right? Because we've left late.

14:30

Now we're in bumper to bumper traffic. It takes

14:32

forever. They get off the interstate. They

14:34

have to go on one of those weavy highways. That's

14:36

like two lanes, right? People are always turning

14:38

off. This also takes forever. Finally,

14:41

by the time they turn into the gravel

14:43

drive, like where this big house that they rented

14:45

for the weekend is, they're like three hours later

14:47

than they're supposed

14:47

to be. Don't

14:51

vomit. It's going to be fine. Okay.

14:53

There are like 15 people

14:56

staying in the house for this wedding weekend. We are

14:58

not going to learn all of their names because that is a lot

15:00

of people.

15:01

The only people you need to know are Rose's nuclear family.

15:03

Okay. Her brother, Kurt,

15:06

his wife, Heather, is

15:08

also Rose's maid of honor. Rose's

15:11

brother's wife is Rose's maid

15:13

of honor.

15:14

Okay. Yes. Very close

15:17

with her sister-in-law. Exactly. Her

15:19

sister-in-law is Heather. Then

15:21

their dad is there, Kurt and

15:23

Rose's dad, and dad's

15:26

wife, Deb. Okay.

15:29

What's Rose and Kurt's dad's name? Not important.

15:31

We're calling him dad. All right. Can we name him Paul?

15:34

Yeah. Paul. Paul. Great.

15:36

I love Paul. Rose's dad. Paul and Deb.

15:39

Deb is Paul's wife, not Rose's

15:41

mother. Exactly. The only thing you need

15:43

to know about Deb is that they

15:45

both, Kurt and Rose, refer to Deb

15:48

as dad's wife and never step up.

15:50

Zing. That's

15:53

going to leave a mark. I've read

15:55

r slash A-I-T-A.

15:57

This feels important. This comes

15:58

up a lot. Let me know. tell you.

16:01

Okay. I've written this all down.

16:04

I feel visually

16:05

prepared for more information. I like that you're both taking

16:08

notes. That's very, you're very prepared to continue

16:10

the story. Okay, we are. Car pulls

16:12

in. Rose is like so excited because she's

16:14

like, Oh my God, all my favorite people are here, right?

16:16

It's my wedding weekend. My whole family's here. Great.

16:19

She like basically barrel rolls

16:20

out of this car. Kurt's

16:22

dog comes like running out to greet her and

16:24

she's like, this is the best day of my life. She's getting her face

16:27

looked by the dog. She's petting the dog. The

16:29

dog's in the best mood.

16:30

Everything's great. She hugs Kurt. She's like, how

16:33

is everything? And Kurt's like, well,

16:36

Deb's not here yet.

16:39

And Rose is like, okay, I mean, that's fine. We're

16:41

not leaving for dinner for like another couple

16:43

hours. Like, isn't that okay? And

16:45

Kurt's like, yeah, but dad told me

16:48

that Deb does not want the dog

16:51

to be here when she gets here. And this is

16:53

Kurt's dog. Okay.

16:56

Okay. How do you feel

16:58

about this? It's

17:00

my wedding, not my fucking problem. Like,

17:02

okay, then like, don't help me

17:05

about it. First of all, Kurt, I don't

17:07

think, I think that if there's one thing we all know about

17:09

attending weddings is that you can't bring

17:11

large structural problems about the wedding

17:13

itself to the bride. So that's

17:16

not good judgment on Kurt's part. But the other thing

17:18

is I would say about Deb, you

17:21

need to probably get that worked out before

17:24

it arrives. Like, yeah.

17:26

And then you have to decide, I feel like Kurt and Deb need

17:28

to figure out who's not staying

17:29

in the house versus like,

17:32

you know, figuring it out in this moment. Rose

17:36

is also like, Deb's never met the dog.

17:39

So like, how does Deb know that she doesn't want this dog

17:41

here? And Kurt's like, well, dad says

17:44

that Deb thinks that dogs are

17:46

dirty.

17:47

Again, this just does not feel

17:49

like a conversation for

17:52

the bride. This moment, we end Rose.

17:55

But again, knowing what we know about Rose,

17:57

not stressed about being three hours late to her own

17:59

wedding weekend. And it's like, yeah, I'm also

18:01

kind of, not to be judgmental, but I guess I'm being

18:03

judgmental. Not kind of, like kind of not

18:05

surprised that this is now coming to a head

18:07

at this time. Because

18:10

these are big details that,

18:13

should have been figured out. Should have

18:15

been figured out. Like Deb's opinion about

18:17

dogs, like sort of not necessary.

18:20

Unfortunately, coming into play

18:22

because you brought your dog.

18:24

Yes. It's just like, okay, well,

18:28

is the dog specifically invited to the, like this whole thing

18:30

just kind of feels like superfluous

18:32

drama. Yes. That

18:35

is the theme of today's episode. Superfluous

18:38

drama. Rose

18:40

is like, we're in the middle

18:42

of nowhere.

18:43

There's nowhere for this dog to

18:45

go. Like it's not like we're somewhere

18:48

where there's like nice dog boarding or we can get

18:50

on Rover and find someone to take the dog for the evening.

18:52

Like Rose is like, the dog is our friend. I

18:55

want the dog here. The dog stays. Kurt's

18:57

like, great, thank you. This problem is

18:59

now solved, right?

19:01

Kurt's like, there's also some

19:03

drama with the rooms. Kurt,

19:06

Kurt is an agent of chaos. Heather,

19:09

his wife is like, this is

19:11

not a thing that she needs to

19:13

deal with.

19:14

Like this is not her problem.

19:17

Heather also the maid of honor. So that's sort

19:19

of her job anyway. Heather's like, I will

19:22

show Rose to her room. Stop bothering

19:24

her with these problems. Like we will take care

19:26

of it. So

19:28

Heather shows her into this beautiful

19:30

big room. It's like the primary suite. It has a big

19:32

bath. And Rose is like, oh my God, so nice

19:34

of you to save this for me. It's

19:36

so nice. And Heather's like, well, one, it is your wedding.

19:39

And two, you getting this room is the only

19:41

thing that anyone could agree on.

19:43

And

19:45

Rose is like, what? And Heather's like, oh yeah,

19:47

there's been drama over everything

19:50

so far. And Rose is like, what else did I miss? And

19:52

Heather's like, well, we also don't have

19:55

any coffee. Oh

19:57

my

19:57

God. See, now this is why. You

20:00

don't book a wedding weekend with your entire

20:03

nuclear family in a house. Everyone

20:07

thinks it's a good idea, but no one wants

20:10

to be the email baron. No one

20:13

wants to be the person who two months

20:15

ago is like, okay, I talked to the property

20:17

manager and we have to bring our own coffee and

20:20

there's going to be like, no, this. And

20:23

I've asked for the layout of the rooms and we're all going to

20:25

look at the room. So this is the exact

20:27

problem is that Rose's whole

20:30

like modus operandi of this whole thing

20:32

is that she's like,

20:33

I'm a chill bride. That

20:36

means like everything becomes everyone else's problem.

20:38

Is that what a chill bride is? Yeah, exactly.

20:40

That's exactly what it means. Yeah,

20:43

no, no such thing. She's like, I don't want to be

20:45

a bridezilla. I don't want to be crazy about

20:47

everything. But because she's like,

20:49

I want to be chill, quote unquote chill, what

20:52

means is that nothing is planned correctly. Oh,

20:55

my God, I'm going to lose my mind. Yeah. Rose

20:57

and her fiance booked this house and gave people

20:59

the dates and we're basically like, see

21:01

you there. Like, can't wait.

21:03

So people this whole first day have

21:06

been running into things that are forgotten. Right.

21:08

Like there's like there's no wine opener.

21:10

There are no candles. There isn't a good

21:12

place in the kitchen. Right. Of course

21:14

there isn't.

21:16

Is this how Rose is in life? Is

21:18

she out here just like not planning things and hoping

21:20

they work out? It seems that way. Yeah.

21:23

Because I feel like in that case,

21:26

people are like, you know what, like Rose

21:29

is like is kind of like this and also is on one

21:31

about wanting to be a chill bride. So we should

21:33

probably like get some of this sorted

21:35

out. You know? Yeah.

21:37

Something I have learned as someone who

21:39

is extremely not chill is

21:41

that people who are not chill find

21:43

each other. And then there are families

21:45

of people operating this way that I

21:48

just have no knowledge of. You're so right.

21:50

I would much rather be in a room with like 15

21:53

alphas all trying out alpha each other with our

21:55

spreadsheets than be anywhere near this family.

21:58

I'm so sorry. This would.

22:00

No. Both of you already

22:02

are so tense. We're both so triggered. We're both

22:04

like, no. I cannot even handle this. This is like my nightmare.

22:07

Luckily, this family did know well enough

22:09

to be like, there's no way we're going to be

22:15

able to make dinner for 15 people

22:17

in this kitchen, so they have made reservations

22:20

for dinner. Okay. Well,

22:22

that's something. So everyone's like, okay, we need to get ready. We

22:24

have to leave in 30 minutes to get to dinner on

22:26

time. So everyone's like doing

22:29

their stuff, getting ready when

22:30

they hear the car in the drive,

22:32

new car in the drive. Deb is here. Hurricane

22:34

Deb, am I right? Hurricane Deb

22:37

and Kurt is like holding the dog

22:39

back by the collar, right?

22:41

Deb comes up, she hugs Rose, she hugs

22:43

Heather, and then she's like, oh my God, the dog.

22:45

I've been dying to meet him. He's so beautiful.

22:48

And she's like on the ground petting the dog. I knew

22:50

the dad was blaming her for this. I

22:53

knew the dad was like airing

22:55

his opinion about the dog, but blaming Deb. That's

22:58

what it seemed like.

22:59

I think this is a liar Deb

23:01

problem. I

23:03

think Deb is like a fake up front

23:06

and then behind everyone's back, she's like, tell them to get

23:08

the dog out of here. I don't want to fucking...

23:09

Oh my God, the dog. The

23:12

dog. Now, that's interesting. I think

23:14

the dad doesn't want to be around the dog, but wants

23:17

to blame him. Call him by his name, Sally. His name

23:19

is Paul. Sorry,

23:21

Paul.

23:22

Rose is like,

23:24

whatever. Honestly, Deb's happy.

23:26

The dog gets to stay. That's what I wanted.

23:29

Sure. She goes back to fixing her makeup.

23:33

She hears Heather in the hall. You know

23:35

when you don't have something and you're in a big house,

23:37

you stick your head out and are like, does anybody have

23:39

whatever? Yes. Heather sticks

23:41

her head out and she's like, does anybody have

23:44

a hair straightener? I forgot my hair straightener.

23:47

Caroline knows what that means, but

23:49

I don't know what it means. You

23:52

can't wait for me. Okay, sorry. Right.

23:55

I am. Okay. For

23:57

those who can't see me in that is a hundred percent of people listening right

23:59

now.

23:59

waving my hand, I'm just like, I'm done, I'm

24:02

done. If I could walk away right now.

24:05

Yeah, no Heather, no one has a hair

24:07

straightener.

24:08

Why, but why is it bad that Heather doesn't have

24:10

a hair straightener? Because bring your own hair straightener.

24:13

She needs one, she needs one and she, it's being

24:15

someone else. Okay, okay.

24:16

Okay, okay, okay, okay,

24:19

okay, okay, got it, got it, got it. Okay, no, I just

24:21

didn't understand if there's something special at

24:23

it being a hair straightener. No, it's just more like Heather

24:25

also seemed to,

24:28

she illustrated earlier

24:30

that she understands sort of like who's

24:34

she's dealing with here. So

24:37

you think that you,

24:39

for all intents and purposes, the most competent

24:42

person, you think you now that

24:45

you've forgotten the hair straightener, someone's like, oh yeah, no, I

24:47

definitely brought the hair straightener. Rose was three hours

24:49

late to her own wedding weekend. No one has

24:51

a hair, no one has a hair straightener. I'm

24:54

throwing my hand, I cannot even deal with this. Caroline

24:56

has thrown down her microphone and has walked out

24:58

of the frame. She's leaving. I'm about

25:00

to walk into traffic, I can't deal with this. It's just me

25:03

and Sally now, bye Caroline. Bye,

25:05

see ya, just one, it's been fun.

25:07

Rose is like, I didn't bring a hair straightener, I

25:09

only

25:09

have a curling iron. Deb

25:14

is like, oh, I have a straightener. She's like, Heather, I have one in my

25:16

bag, I can leave it in our Jack and Jill bathroom. And

25:20

Rose is like, you're sharing a bathroom

25:22

with dad and Deb? And Heather's

25:25

like rolling her eyes, she's like, unfortunately,

25:27

yes, that is the way the rooms shook out. So

25:29

this problem is at least solved. Heather

25:32

does Rose's nails, they're ready to

25:34

go on time. Heather's hair is straight, she

25:36

looks so nice, everyone is

25:38

happy. Rose

25:41

is like, I never

25:42

would have gotten this moment of like Heather doing my nails and these people

25:44

bonding if I had

25:46

micromanaged everything. Like being a chill bride is

25:48

really paying off. No,

25:51

fuck you.

25:52

No, fuck you. No,

25:55

that's not what being a chill bride is. Okay, yep,

25:57

okay, continue. I

26:00

want better for Rose. I want better

26:02

for Rose. People are real. People just don't understand

26:04

what chill bride means, and that's not it. They

26:06

go to dinner at a farm to table restaurant where

26:08

all of the plates are really small

26:11

vegetables, tiny plate of beautifully

26:13

made vegetables. Great. Delicious.

26:16

Everyone eats it. They're all like, this is incredible.

26:18

We love it. But this is a very light

26:20

dinner, and wine has been

26:22

flowing very quickly. So everyone

26:25

is tipsy by the time dinner is over, right?

26:28

OK.

26:29

This is fine.

26:30

The dinner goes great. But the plan, Rose's

26:32

plan, was to go to dinner and then to go to

26:35

a local bar where Rose wanted to sit

26:37

and have a nightcap and everyone just gab.

26:39

Now, Kelsey, was that the plan or

26:41

was that something Rose just thought of one day and

26:44

said to nobody? That one.

26:46

All right, carry on. They get there.

26:48

The bar is packed, like

26:51

sardines packed, because

26:53

this night of the week is karaoke night.

26:56

So there is barely room to stand,

26:58

much less to sit and have your little nightcap.

27:01

Your parents are there. It's your wedding weekend.

27:03

You're a little bit tipsy. The bar is packed.

27:05

Do you want to stay?

27:08

Absolutely not. I don't want to stay at a packed bar

27:10

under any circumstances. So what are you going to do instead?

27:13

Go back to the house, but get on our jammies,

27:16

have some tea, play Trivial Pursuit. What

27:18

are you talking about? Hang out in the house.

27:21

Rose is like, well, let's just go in and see.

27:24

So they go in. They make it like two

27:26

songs, and everyone is like, this

27:29

sucks. We hate it. It's not fun

27:31

here. And they're like, OK, we'll go back

27:33

to the house. They get back, and Rose

27:35

is clearly grumpy. She's not

27:38

having a good time. She's not having fun. And the dad

27:40

is in an effort to help. He's

27:42

like, I will make cocktails for everyone.

27:45

I'm going like dad cocktail mode.

27:48

And famously, dad cocktails

27:50

are three to four times stronger than regular cocktails.

27:53

So he's making cocktails for everyone

27:55

and handing them out. And everyone is getting drunker

27:57

and drunker and drunker.

28:00

What do you think that these people should do? They're

28:03

all just sitting around having drinks, they're

28:05

a little bored, they have no activity.

28:07

Man, getting wasted face with

28:10

family on an empty stomach when

28:12

your other plans got canceled just sounds like a recipe

28:14

for disaster, especially because everything started

28:16

out with conflict. Sally, I need

28:18

to interrupt you. Their plans didn't get canceled. They didn't have plans

28:20

to be canceled. They showed up to a- Sorry, excuse

28:23

me. They showed up to a bar and we're like, oh my God,

28:25

I can't believe it. People in a bar on a Friday

28:27

night in a town where there's probably

28:29

one bar. I can't believe it.

28:31

How could this have happened? You

28:34

know what I'm doing? I'm getting the

28:36

dog and I'm going back to the city.

28:39

You're not staying anymore. You're done here. I

28:42

mean, no, my real answer, the

28:44

thing that I'm thinking in my head is I'm getting the dog and I'm going

28:46

back to the city. And what I might be doing

28:48

is going for a good, long cry in the Jack and Jill bathroom.

28:51

What I'm actually doing is like, am

28:53

I also drunk? I ask as a sober

28:56

person, in this situation, am I a person

28:58

who can drink and is drunk?

29:00

Sure, yeah. I

29:03

just can't think of anything that's like

29:06

less me

29:10

than like, oh, she's drunk and there have been no plans.

29:14

Like you could not,

29:16

this is the least Caroline scenario

29:19

I can think of. I think I would try

29:21

to organize some sort of game.

29:23

Yes.

29:24

Similarly to Sally's like initial

29:26

thesis, which was like

29:28

trivial pursuit sit at home. Kurt

29:31

is like, what if we played Pictionary?

29:35

Sure. So he gets out like the paper or whatever

29:38

that they need to play Pictionary. It's family,

29:41

it's a wedding, which means that the Pictionary

29:43

is entirely inside jokes. Like

29:46

someone is drawing like three lines

29:49

and another person is like, that's the lake we went to

29:51

as kids.

29:52

That's funny, yeah. I think now

29:54

I'm into it. Someone draws one circle and

29:56

someone's like, that's a glass eye obviously.

29:59

Someone draws a bear and Kurt is like, that's

30:02

Kevin James's 2001 comedy special, Sweat

30:04

the Small Stuff, clearly. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.

30:07

And everyone knows it. Yeah. Everyone

30:09

knows it except for Deb. Deb

30:12

is like already

30:14

kind of an outsider, because she's referred

30:17

to as Paul Swick. I don't get any of these

30:19

jokes. I have no idea what's going

30:21

on. Even more frustratingly,

30:24

Rose's fiance's parents, they're

30:26

somehow getting these jokes, right? They're involved.

30:29

Everyone's getting it except for me. She's

30:32

like, this sucks.

30:34

Finally, it's Heather's turn to draw. Heather gets

30:36

up there and she draws a stereotype

30:38

of a woman, like a triangle body with legs

30:40

and arms. And she draws a little head. And

30:42

then she draws very poofy hair outline

30:47

with little frizzy pieces. And

30:50

Paul is like, Deb. And Heather's

30:52

like, yes, good. Paul.

30:55

Oh my god, no. Heather. Oh

30:58

god. When everyone starts gossiping

31:00

about you, it doesn't feel good. So even

31:02

though I think anyone

31:04

outside of this story can be like, who cares? Deb,

31:07

she never gets anything. If I were Deb,

31:10

especially after all this, I would

31:12

already be so sad.

31:14

Heather really should have known better. And also,

31:16

Deb lent her the straightener. So to

31:18

go for her hair, her frizzy hair. It's

31:22

rude. Bitch.

31:23

Your rose

31:26

in this scenario, Deb

31:28

is clearly mad. Heather,

31:31

your maid of honor slash sister-in-law, has made

31:34

this rather rude joke. Do

31:37

you want to do something about this? Do you

31:39

want to leave it? Like,

31:40

what's your move here? As

31:44

rose, right? As rose. I

31:47

think maybe say

31:50

like, all right, let's keep things fun

31:53

and cute and move on to the next

31:55

round of the game, I think, probably,

31:57

just to keep it moving without making a thing of

31:59

it.

31:59

Do you agree?

32:01

I would be like, Heather, you're

32:03

notoriously the world's shittiest artist. I

32:06

don't know what Deb looks like. I would go full

32:08

Team Deb. Like, I can't stand when people feel

32:10

already left out and like

32:13

then to get like just fucking needled in

32:15

a stick figure. That is the thing that would have driven me to tears

32:17

at like a fourth grade sleepover party. So

32:20

like, I would be like, come

32:21

on, Deb, come on, girl. Like, we're

32:23

gonna like fuck Heather. I

32:25

would have totally just tried to like rally

32:27

Deb in.

32:29

Bring Deb in. Call her in. Call her in. The

32:31

game is like moving fast enough that Rose is like,

32:33

nobody is sitting with this, right?

32:36

Like things are moving on. But after the

32:38

game, Rose is like on her way

32:40

to bed. She's like, Heather, like,

32:42

dude, that's like a little harsh. It's a little

32:44

far. Like, I know that we don't like

32:47

Deb, but like she's feeling left

32:49

out. Like you're don't be mean to her.

32:51

And Heather's like, yeah, you're right. I'm so sorry.

32:54

Okay, they go to bed.

32:56

It is now the wedding day.

32:58

Good morning. Welcome. How do you

33:00

feel? How do you think this is gonna go? Well,

33:02

are they hungover? Like that's the other thing.

33:04

Like certainly. Yes. Not

33:06

only are they hungover,

33:08

somebody got coffee yesterday, but

33:10

they got whole bean coffee and there's no coffee

33:12

grinder. Dumb,

33:15

fucking dumb. I'm

33:18

dumb. Fucking fam. That's that's

33:20

that's brutal. I mean, but

33:25

here's the thing, though.

33:26

If you're the kind of person who can roll

33:29

with this like chill situation, if you're a

33:33

chill bride, then maybe you're the kind of person

33:35

who like are hungover and there's no coffee

33:37

and you're like, whatever, like, I'll be fine. I

33:39

am personally not that way, which is

33:41

why I would never find myself in that situation.

33:44

But perhaps people who are more

33:47

chill brides than I have been known to

33:49

be

33:50

would be okay with that. I mean, are they upset

33:52

that they're hungover and there's no coffee? It's like they're

33:54

chill briding it. They're like, Dad will

33:56

go to the Walmart. That's 45

33:59

minutes away.

33:59

return with coffee grounds. Oh,

34:02

they're not chill briding it. You're making

34:04

Paul go do it. So

34:06

Paul goes to get the coffee. Meanwhile,

34:08

like people are beginning to get ready because this is

34:10

a wedding, right? And it's like the only

34:13

thing that Rose has done a good job of is

34:15

hiring a photographer well enough in advance

34:17

and like giving them instructions. Rose

34:20

is like the only thing I care

34:21

about is photos, right? That is like the

34:23

one thing she's not chill about. Fine.

34:27

What do we say? Not chill or just the one email she

34:29

sent and I just take a,

34:32

I just take offense

34:34

as, as like

34:36

being a planner means you're not chill.

34:38

I don't know. This is something that I feel,

34:40

I feel honestly, this is personal front to me. I'm

34:43

sorry that Rose is hurting you in this way. I

34:46

don't know her mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and

34:48

sexually. Yeah. I am her

34:51

mind, body and soul. Okay. So she's like, Oh,

34:53

I'm, this is the only thing she hasn't been chill about. She

34:55

hired someone for fucking wedding. Okay.

34:58

Okay. Great job, Rose. So she's like, we have

35:00

to get ready. I'll have these photos forever. Like the

35:02

photos are really important to me. Okay. The

35:05

whole, like a whole bridal party, which is like half the

35:07

house is in Rose's room, like getting ready.

35:09

They're doing hair and makeup. They're gabbing. They

35:12

like keep running into things they don't have.

35:15

Right? Like there's no waterproof mascara.

35:18

There's no setting spray. Deb

35:20

is like, just hairspray your face. And

35:22

everyone's like, no,

35:25

just hairspray

35:28

your makeup as a woman of the eighties. You don't

35:30

have to tell me anything else about her. Deb,

35:32

you are a wild woman of the eighties. Just spray

35:35

Aquanet on your face. That's great. There's like plenty

35:37

of time before the wedding, but you're missing all these things.

35:40

And there's like not a Sephora. You're

35:42

like out there. What

35:44

do you do? I

35:45

guess go back in time and plan

35:47

my wedding is not an option here.

35:50

Okay. So you're missing all these things, but you're not telling

35:53

us, Kelsey, like what's the vibe of, Oh

35:55

man, there's no waterproof mascara. So like, what's

35:57

the vibe when that sentence is.

35:59

So the vibe at first is

36:02

like, it's fine, we'll make it work.

36:04

Right? Everyone's kind of like, this is chill, it's

36:06

fine. But as the list is

36:09

growing, growing, growing, people are

36:11

like, actually, this is a lot of things. You

36:14

can't make it work if you have no ingredients.

36:17

OK, well, what I would do

36:19

is I would delegate one person,

36:22

Heather probably, because she's the maid of honor, or

36:24

someone equally as close, with a list 45

36:26

minutes out to the Walmart, to

36:29

get the things that we need. And so

36:31

yeah, I guess if I determined

36:33

all of these things to be priority, I would

36:36

delegate someone to go out and get these

36:38

things

36:39

with my goddamn veil between

36:41

my legs. What

36:43

do you think, Sally? Oh,

36:45

that was good. I guess I feel like if I

36:47

was chill-briting it,

36:50

and

36:53

this was going to be my whole thing,

36:55

I would hopefully, when

36:58

all this shit happens, be able to

37:00

maintain that spirit of being like, well,

37:03

I said I was just going to be a chill bride, so I'm just going to

37:05

be a chill bride now. And I would probably

37:07

move off of the dance floor onto

37:10

the balcony. I'm speaking metaphorically now.

37:13

Get up on the balcony.

37:15

Look at the situation. And say to the people

37:17

in my wedding, look, I

37:19

know we're all missing a bunch of stuff. I really wanted

37:22

this to just be low-key. If everyone

37:24

can just do the best they can with what they

37:26

have and what they don't have, that would be

37:28

awesome. Let's just focus on having a fun time

37:30

together. So this is the problem,

37:33

is that Rose is like,

37:35

whatever. We'll make it work. If

37:37

the cake that we made is only made of sugar,

37:40

that's a pile of sugar that we can eat, and it'll

37:42

be fine. Like, she's like, whatever. But

37:46

the other people are like, this is extremely

37:49

not fine. And so Heather

37:51

is like, no. We need all of

37:53

these things. Not only do we need blotting papers

37:55

and waterproof mascara and all this stuff, but we

37:57

don't have ribbon for the bouquets. Right?

38:00

We don't we don't have enough booze, right? Like

38:02

we don't have the sparklers for the send off,

38:04

right? We're missing all of these things. So

38:07

Heather is like, Paul,

38:09

here is your list. We have attached

38:11

photos with the list so that you know

38:13

exactly what to get. Please

38:16

go off into the land

38:18

of stores and return with these things.

38:22

Here's where I disagree with this. If

38:24

you are the bride and it's your wedding

38:27

and all the way up until this day, you're like,

38:29

I don't care. And when all these things go

38:31

wrong, your attitude is still, I don't care, then we're

38:35

all good. Like it's

38:37

not anyone else's job to decide you have

38:39

to care about this stuff. She's telling you she

38:41

doesn't care. If you wanted blotting papers,

38:44

you need to take care of yourself, Heather. I like how quickly

38:46

you've pivoted. Oh, I

38:48

mean, no, the thing that would have really gotten my

38:50

goat is the chill brides

38:53

being like, I'm chill, I'm chill, I'm chill, I'm chill. And

38:55

then having

38:56

these like expectations that are

38:59

set

39:00

and could only be possible with planning.

39:03

But if you're a bride who's like, I don't actually care about

39:05

ribbons for the bouquets, I'll just hold the flowers. I don't really care

39:07

about the cake. I don't care if the DJ plays the

39:09

wrong song. It's your wedding. I'm just

39:11

here. I'll do whatever you want me to do. Like

39:14

that's how I feel. But as long as you can stay

39:16

consistent, I think like more power

39:18

to you. But Heather then should

39:20

have been like

39:21

not surprised that any of this wasn't

39:24

done. Yes, Heather sends dad

39:26

to the store.

39:27

And Deb is like, Deb

39:29

is like, I don't want him to go to the store. He's going to be

39:31

gone for four hours. And

39:34

then I'm going to be like stuck here by

39:36

myself with all of you. And Heather's

39:38

like, well, if he doesn't want

39:40

to go, he doesn't have to go. And dad's like, I love a

39:42

job. Off I go to the store. Like

39:45

dad's going away. Goodbye, Paul. Classic

39:47

dad. Yeah. Everything's fine. Whenever

39:49

they're getting ready, the photographer shows up. They're

39:52

making do without the stuff they don't have. In

39:54

the afternoon, Deb comes into the room

39:56

where they all are. Looking frazzled. And she's like,

39:59

I need to talk to Heather. Rosa's

40:01

like, okay, talk to Heather. She talks to Heather. She

40:03

goes away. She comes back like two hours later and

40:05

she's like, the boys don't

40:08

know where to place their boutonnieres. Wait,

40:11

hold on. Sorry. Deb and

40:13

Heather had a conversation. Yes. For

40:15

two hours. No, briefly. And then she left.

40:17

Briefly. And then Deb left. Okay. And then

40:19

Deb returned and was like, we have another problem.

40:22

I see. Which is the boutonnieres. Okay.

40:24

Do you know how to put on boutonnieres? Yes.

40:26

Either of you?

40:28

No, but I feel like I would just Google it. Yeah.

40:30

Yeah. Doesn't seem that hard. What do you know about it, Caroline? Tell

40:32

me. You just do pin the flower onto your lapel.

40:35

So the problem is there

40:37

are two places to pin it, right? You can pin

40:39

it lower on the lapel or you can

40:42

pin it higher.

40:43

Deb is like the men of this house don't

40:45

know which place to put their little boutonniere.

40:48

It was weaponized incompetence.

40:50

I'm sorry. Now I see

40:52

what you mean about superfluous drama. There

40:56

are too many people in this story who are

40:58

starting who are like agents of chaos.

41:01

Yeah.

41:01

Like Deb, respectfully figure

41:03

it the fuck out. So

41:07

Heather and Deb cannot agree on this. Deb

41:09

goes to get two of the like groomsmen

41:12

and she brings them back with the lapels, like

41:14

with the boutonnieres pinned in different places on the

41:16

lapels and she puts them in front of Rose and

41:18

she's like, choose

41:20

Rose is like,

41:21

let them do whatever they want. These are basically

41:24

the same. I do not care. Rose

41:26

is like great. Chill, problem solved. Chill

41:29

bride for the win. I did it.

41:32

But then like an hour later, Deb

41:34

comes back and is like whispering with Heather about

41:36

something and Rose is like, what is this about?

41:38

And Heather's like, oh, she just like doesn't

41:41

like how the boutonnieres look like don't worry

41:43

about it.

41:44

And who doesn't like them, Deb. Deb.

41:47

Okay. And Rose is like, okay,

41:50

I won't worry about it. Doesn't seem like a problem

41:52

to me. Not my problem.

41:55

About an hour before the wedding, dad returns with

41:57

all the things they need.

41:58

Dad is a hero. Everyone.

41:59

claps for him. He like, he

42:02

comes to find her and hugs her right. Heather

42:04

immediately goes up to him unpins his boutonniere

42:07

and pins it a different way.

42:09

And Rose is like, please

42:11

stop, like leave the boutonnieres

42:13

alone. No one cares. We

42:16

get to the wedding. The wedding goes

42:19

fine. Everything

42:19

goes fine. The only problem is

42:21

that in the end, Heather switching dad's boutonniere

42:24

meant that his looked different than everyone else's.

42:27

After the ceremony, Rose is like, I want my big family

42:29

photo. Like I feel so happy. This is so

42:31

great. They all get together. They like take their

42:34

photos. She's like, we did it. There's

42:35

dancing and dinner. The sparklers

42:38

work.

42:39

They go away for the night at a hotel. Rose

42:41

is like, this is so sweet. Everything turned out exactly

42:43

how I wanted. Rose is like, everyone says that weddings

42:45

are chaos, but there was only this like tiny, minor

42:48

boutonniere drama.

42:50

Everyone had a great time. I pulled it

42:52

off. I was a chill bride. How

42:54

are we feeling? You were a chill bride, I

42:57

guess. I'm feeling not great, Kelsey. I'm not gonna

42:59

lie to you. I'm not feeling good. I'm sorry. I'm

43:01

sorry. Yes,

43:04

you were a chill bride. I

43:06

just think behind every chill bride

43:09

is someone with a fucking spreadsheet. And,

43:12

and, uh, we can't all

43:14

be a chill bride and we can't all be a spreadsheet

43:16

person. But

43:17

weddings are

43:19

a

43:20

lot of things. All right. Pull

43:23

up to my Ted talk. Um, okay.

43:26

Weddings are a lot. All right. Sure. Weddings

43:28

are a lot of things. What they are

43:30

not

43:31

are sort of

43:33

events that you can play by

43:35

ear

43:36

because I'm,

43:37

what I'm already gaining by the clues

43:39

and information you've told me is that it is

43:42

a wedding weekend because people had to

43:44

travel up to a different house

43:46

that no one lives in. They

43:48

rented this house and

43:51

that there are guests outside of

43:53

the people in this house at the wedding. Yes.

43:55

When you do that,

43:58

you owe people. who are

44:00

giving you a

44:02

weekend of their life to celebrate you,

44:04

you owe them some details. You

44:06

had enough time in wherewithal to rent

44:08

the house. You had enough time in wherewithal

44:11

to pick the weekend that you were gonna get married.

44:13

Everyone in your family knew the date, so

44:16

information did have to be shared on that plane.

44:19

If you want to just invite everyone

44:21

over to your backyard and be

44:23

like,

44:25

don't bride, we're getting married, like someone's here,

44:27

and then like, okay, like we got like, you know, someone's on

44:29

the grill and we're doing burgers and like, great,

44:32

amazing. You can't have like two

44:34

different events. At

44:37

what? Existing as one, as one,

44:40

and make, and feel like

44:42

this is, I'm sure, I'm glad that Rose,

44:44

because it's like her wedding, she walked away from

44:46

this feeling like I was a chill bride,

44:49

like yes, it's important

44:50

to have enjoyed your own wedding, I guess, but like,

44:54

not every, I don't know. For

44:56

me, if I'm like, I would want my guests

44:58

to have a good experience, it would be really difficult for me

45:00

to like, let go and let

45:02

go at LG Squared, because I just, I

45:04

don't know, like I'm already like

45:07

asking so much of people, like maybe

45:09

you have to take off work on Friday to get up there for

45:11

the dinner, like, you know, like

45:13

you want to show up and be like, oh, I was not, I was

45:15

thought of. We're here

45:18

and like, we're doing the thing that you wanted

45:20

us to do, whether that's eating burgers

45:23

barefoot in the backyard or getting

45:25

full black, you know, black tie and

45:28

dancing till whatever, I'll do what you want

45:30

me to do, but please communicate it to

45:32

me ahead of time. I guess that's my thought. So

45:34

I don't know. Sally, how do you feel at

45:37

this moment in time? I feel,

45:39

I think pretty similar to Caroline. I think

45:41

that like,

45:43

you know, when you want

45:45

to be a chill bride, even

45:47

if, you know, other people know that that's like

45:49

what your deal is gonna be, you

45:51

are still asking them to partake in

45:54

a kind of event that is usually

45:56

associated with a lot of advanced

45:59

planning

45:59

of things being like figured out. And

46:02

so

46:03

even if like the people you're inviting

46:06

are like buying in,

46:07

they still are gonna like be

46:10

like, but wait, where's the ribbon for the bouquet and where are

46:13

the sparklers and this, you know, so

46:15

like, I think that this is like one

46:18

of those moments where you

46:21

think you're doing a chill thing. And it's

46:23

actually you're just sort of like inflicting your

46:25

weird psychodrama on everyone

46:28

around you and then everyone else has to like cope with

46:30

it.

46:31

I think we also have to remember that like Chill

46:33

Bride

46:35

is,

46:36

and I say this as somebody who literally like

46:39

co-wrote a book about the

46:42

idiosyncrasies of bachelorette party planning, just

46:44

it's not about being chill or not chill. Like you

46:46

didn't plan your wedding and now I'm here at your

46:49

wedding. Like that's that's what I can't

46:52

reckon with. But like, you know,

46:54

so Rose leaves the wedding like

46:56

feeling happy and like great,

46:59

right? She's like, this went great. Everyone had

47:01

a good time. Whatever. This went great. Okay.

47:15

The

47:16

other day someone came over to my house and I was like, can I

47:18

get you anything? You know, because I'm nothing if not a good host.

47:21

And they were like, Yeah, do you have any tea? And I was like, Do

47:24

I have so much tea? I have a whole inbox full

47:26

of tea. I have a whole voicemail box full of

47:28

tea. And they were like, No, no, no, like the drink

47:30

like the beverage tea. And I was

47:32

like, Oh, yeah, yeah, because I also have that. So

47:34

I went and I got the tea for them. And I came back and I handed

47:36

it to them. And they were like, This is not a tea. This is

47:39

a beer. And I was like, that's not a beer. That's a liquid

47:41

death. And they were like, Oh, it's a water. And I was like, No,

47:43

liquid death also has tea. They

47:45

make mountain water flavored sparkling water.

47:47

And now they even have iced tea. Why

47:50

are they called liquid death? It's because the tall boys

47:52

will brutally murder your thirst.

47:54

And their infinitely recyclable cans are

47:56

helping to bring death to plastic

47:59

bottles get it

47:59

Haha. It's also great because the

48:02

bottles, you know, aren't plastic, which we love.

48:04

We love not killing the earth. We love putting our aluminum

48:06

can into the recycling bin. And

48:09

Liquid Death donates a portion of their profits from

48:11

every can sold to help kill plastic pollution.

48:14

My favorite flavor of Liquid Death, which I was not

48:16

able to give to my friend because I drank all of them,

48:18

is the armless Palmer. It's like

48:20

a lemonade mixed with a tea. Ooh, very delicious.

48:23

I highly recommend it. You can find

48:25

Liquid Death's healthy beverages on Amazon

48:27

or at a retailer near you. And normal gossip

48:29

listeners

48:29

get 20% off their first

48:32

Liquid Death apparel purchase. Available

48:34

exclusively at liquiddeath.com slash

48:36

gossip. Exclusions may apply. That's

48:39

liquiddeath.com slash gossip.

48:48

So you know how it takes like a few

48:50

weeks to get the photos back? Like you don't get

48:53

them immediately. It takes like eight

48:55

weeks for Rose to get the photos back. And she's like

48:57

so excited. She's like, this

48:59

is great. She has Kurt and Heather come over to like look

49:02

at them with her. They're like oohing and aahing.

49:04

They look great. She's like, this is so, I'm

49:06

so happy.

49:07

Heather like has to go somewhere. So she leaves.

49:10

And Rose is like, okay, Kurt, like since

49:12

we're both here, I think we should pick

49:15

one of these photos of like all of us

49:17

together to give to dad and Deb

49:19

like for the holidays.

49:21

Cute little gift, right?

49:23

And Kurt is like, Rose.

49:26

We cannot use any

49:28

of these photos. And Rose is

49:30

like, what? Like why? And

49:33

Kurt like kind of sighs and puts his head in his

49:35

hands and he's like, has anyone told you?

49:38

And Rose is like, told me what? And

49:41

Kurt is like, do you like, do you

49:43

know about the drama? And

49:45

Rose is like, yeah, the boutonniere drama. And Kurt is like,

49:47

no, no, no, no, no. The straightener drama.

49:50

Oh my God.

49:51

That was like 10 dramas ago. And

49:54

Rose is like, what? I don't know anything about

49:56

this. I can't even. And Kurt is like, okay.

49:59

We.

49:59

We have to go back to the beginning.

50:05

What do you remember about the beginning of the wedding?

50:08

They didn't have coffee. No coffee.

50:10

They didn't have coffee and Heather pokes her head

50:13

out and says, did anyone bring a straightener? And Deb said you

50:15

can use mine. I thought that was the night before. That was the night

50:17

before, but it's relevant. Okay.

50:19

She left it in the Jack and Jill bathroom. Dad's

50:23

going to the store, right? There's no mascara.

50:25

Right. Then dad leaves, right? Yeah.

50:28

Dad came to talk to Heather. What did she come to talk to

50:30

her about?

50:32

The boutonnieres and the placement.

50:34

Oh. The boutonniere and the placement is

50:36

what Rose thought they were talking about. Did

50:41

it was the straightener in Paul's car?

50:43

No, the straightener was missing.

50:46

Something that Rose didn't notice is that when Deb

50:48

showed up, she was like her hair was wet because she

50:50

had just taken a shower and she was like wearing a robe

50:52

and she was like two steps from a nervous breakdown.

50:55

And during Pictionary, Heather drew frizzy hair.

50:58

Yes. And so she asked Heather, like,

51:00

where's my straightener? And Heather's like,

51:03

I don't know. I don't have it.

51:05

And Deb is like, Deb is like, your hair

51:07

is literally straight. Like I can

51:09

see it. And Heather's like, yeah, but that's from

51:11

yesterday. Like I'm doing an updo today. I

51:14

didn't wash it.

51:15

And Deb is like, but you had it last

51:18

and like your hair is so smooth. Like where

51:20

did you put it? And Heather's like,

51:22

well, I put it in the Jack and Jill bathroom. I don't know

51:24

what to tell you.

51:25

Rose doesn't know any of that. This is living

51:28

in bliss. Why do you think this is a big deal?

51:30

Is that Deb didn't get to do her hair for the wedding? Yes.

51:33

And because of the Pictionary thing, right? Deb

51:35

is like self-conscious. Right.

51:37

Heather like called her out about her frizzy hair,

51:39

then lost her straightener. And then Deb had to

51:41

go to the wedding frizzy hair.

51:43

Yes. Now this is becoming

51:46

like an aggravated assault case.

51:48

Yeah. Now there are arrests that have

51:50

to be made. OK.

51:51

Your Deb, your straightener is missing. There

51:54

are still many hours until the wedding. Yep.

51:57

The Pictionary doesn't know where it is.

51:59

I'm texting my husband, Paul, and

52:01

I'm being like, I can't find

52:04

my straightener. Can you pick one up for me at Walmart?

52:06

Wow, that's really resourceful and a great

52:08

idea.

52:09

Or if I were Heather, I'd be texting my

52:11

father-in-law and saying, I lost Deb's

52:13

straightener. I have no idea where it is. Can you pick up another straightener?

52:16

All roads lead to Walmart. You

52:18

don't. In less than 24 hours. There's

52:20

no way. So now this makes me think that Heather is

52:24

up to no good. Deb is like, no one

52:26

has left this house except for Paul. Oh

52:29

my god, it's a closed door. It's

52:31

a closed door mystery. She's like, I know it's

52:33

in this house. So where

52:35

is it?

52:36

When timeline-wise, boutonniere-wise,

52:39

was Deb aware of the straightener issue? Pre

52:42

or post-boutonniere placement?

52:44

Pre-boutonniere placement. So it's

52:46

like, before the conversation, Deb

52:49

knows that the straightener is missing. So

52:51

Deb is like,

52:52

you know who doesn't have anything to do at a wedding? These

52:54

groomsmen. They're just like drinking booze.

52:57

Yeah, scratching their balls. They can

52:59

have a job. So she goes to the groomsmen and she's

53:01

like, I need your help. I am missing something.

53:04

We are on a quest to find my hair straightener.

53:06

And the groomsmen are like, OK, got it. They're looking

53:09

around the house. They're

53:10

bringing things back. They're bringing back an

53:13

iron for clothing. And they're like,

53:15

will this work? And

53:17

she's like, no. They're

53:19

bringing back one of those terrible hair dryers

53:21

that they have at hotels. And they're like, could this

53:24

help? This is like when you do Instacart, and

53:26

you're like, I need a lemon. And they're like, they're out of lemons.

53:28

And then they send a picture of a cantaloupe. And you're

53:30

like, no. I don't. Just

53:33

give me nothing then. OK, so they don't even know

53:35

what they are looking for. No. They're

53:37

bringing a portable

53:39

steamer. And they're like, could this help?

53:42

This does unrinkling, right? Could

53:44

this help with your hair? And Deb is like, that's literally the opposite

53:47

of what that would do. No. She's

53:49

like, this is not working. This is like a

53:52

collection of buffoons. I feel like I'm trying to

53:54

explain a card trick to a dog. She's

53:56

like, it looks like tongs,

53:58

right? She's like, tongs. were looking for tongs.

54:01

The groomsmen come back with literal kitchen

54:03

tongs. They're like these. She's like, oh

54:05

my god. Very Amelia Bedelia.

54:08

She's like, I hate all of you. Go away. They're

54:11

all now disheveled because they

54:13

have been looking around.

54:14

And so she repins their boutonnieres.

54:17

And this is where the problem starts, because

54:20

she couldn't remember where they were supposed

54:22

to be pinned. What do you do if you're Deb?

54:25

Hang in there. Deb's

54:27

the one that repinned the boutonnieres. Yes. The

54:29

first time that got them into this trouble of

54:31

where do they go? Oh,

54:34

OK.

54:35

OK. I guess if I'm Deb, I'm

54:37

just going to say I'm going to make my best

54:39

guess with the boutonnieres. And if they need

54:41

to be moved, they need to be moved. Boutonnieres

54:44

are famously

54:45

easily movable. Yeah.

54:48

The whole thing is that you can take them off and put

54:50

them back on again. So I feel like it shouldn't be

54:52

the end of the world if it has to be moved.

54:54

But what about your straightener, which you still can't find?

54:57

Yeah. I mean, that's a toughie. So

55:00

I don't really know how it works with

55:03

you have long hair and you want it to be straight. So

55:05

what is it if it's not straight, like curly? frizzy.

55:08

I'm like one of the groomsmen. Not even curly.

55:12

If you have really nice curly hair, it's more about

55:14

the frizz. It's more about

55:16

what my hair looks like

55:19

right now, like up at the top.

55:21

Like I could never go. Basically, I have

55:24

half dried out of shower hair, things

55:27

in different directions. Things are sticking

55:29

up. There's like little creases from

55:31

like a cliff or whatever. So I couldn't go to

55:33

like a formal event. It would look like I didn't

55:35

care. It would look like I didn't try. OK.

55:38

So it's like you either straighten

55:40

your hair or you don't go

55:42

to the event. Is that the deal? No. There's

55:44

other options, even if they're not on the

55:46

top of the. I could slick my hair

55:49

back into a ponytail. I could put it in

55:51

a bun. There's other ways to do it.

55:53

That's what I would do. I think I would just be like, let

55:55

me just cut my losses. I don't have the time

55:57

to look for this straightener. Let me just get

55:59

it.

55:59

looking as good as it can with what I have

56:02

on hand if I didn't do my

56:04

first choice, which was text Paul and

56:06

get me a straightener. You are both very resourceful,

56:09

much more resourceful than Deb. Deb is

56:11

like,

56:12

she has that feeling you know

56:14

that you have sometimes when you're like a kid and

56:16

you're like, I know that the thing is here, but

56:19

I can't see it. She's totally

56:21

fixated on it. Yeah. And if I ask

56:23

my mom to come look, she'll see it immediately.

56:26

Yeah. Right. And so she's like,

56:29

she's like, I don't want to make Heather come out

56:31

of the bridal room and in here to help me find it because

56:33

she'll see it immediately. But I need

56:35

someone else to help me find it. So she goes to Kurt and

56:37

she's like, Kurt, please.

56:39

I think that the straightener is in this bathroom

56:42

or in your room with Heather. Like can you

56:44

help me find it?

56:45

So Kurt and Deb are tearing apart the bathroom.

56:48

They're pulling things out. They're putting things away.

56:50

They cannot find it. Kurt is finally like, I cannot

56:52

do this anymore. I have things to do. Here's

56:55

a blow dryer and like not even a round brush,

56:57

but just like a brush like good

56:59

luck. Goodbye.

57:00

Deb is

57:04

now on her own. She's like very

57:06

upset. The light in the bathroom is terrible.

57:08

Her hair is frizzy. She has to

57:10

dry it because the wedding is like coming

57:12

miserable. Dad

57:13

comes in, he's sweaty, grumpy.

57:16

He changes fast. He runs out to say

57:18

hi to Rose. He comes back in and sees

57:20

Deb is really upset and he's like, what's wrong? And

57:23

Deb is like still blow drying her hair. And he's like, I can't

57:25

hear you. And she's like, your son and

57:27

his wife stole my straightener.

57:29

I told you they all hated me and here

57:32

is your proof. They want me to look bad at this wedding.

57:34

They want me to look like that drawing that Heather did

57:36

of me.

57:37

He's like, do you want me to go get them? Do you want to talk

57:39

to them? Do you want to, what do you want to do? And

57:42

Deb is like, I can't talk to them. I am

57:44

behind schedule. My hair looks insane.

57:46

Dad is like trying to save this situation.

57:48

He's like, do you want to go to the bridal room and talk

57:50

to them? Do you want to do this? And Deb is like, I can't

57:52

go to the bridal room. They hate me. And

57:55

then she looks at him and she's like,

57:57

did Heather fix her boutonniere? And

57:59

the Dad's like, uh, yeah.

58:02

Heather had switched everyone's boutonniere to be at the same

58:04

height, right? She switched dads when he came

58:06

to hug, rose. She switched all

58:09

the groomsmen, so everyone had the same height, which

58:11

was the height that Heather had chosen. But

58:13

then when dad went to comfort Deb, Deb

58:15

was like, oh, this isn't the right place because it

58:17

wasn't the same spot that she had pinned the groomsmen

58:20

boutonnieres. And so she moved it. And

58:22

that's why his was wrong. Because Deb repinned

58:24

it. Because Deb repinned it. She sabotaged it.

58:27

On her. Or she thought she fixed it.

58:29

No. Deb sabotaged. Deb

58:32

sabotaged. And honestly, go off,

58:34

Deb. This whole thing is like,

58:37

all these people need therapy. They

58:39

need a big glass of water. They

58:41

all need a nap. They

58:44

need a wedding planner.

58:46

Deb puts her hair up in a slicked little

58:49

bun. But it's still frizzy.

58:51

It's so frizzy anyway. She can't

58:54

do it. She goes and sits down

58:56

at the wedding. She's looking at everyone come down the

58:58

aisle. And she can't help it. She's

59:00

looking at Heather, walked down the aisle. And she's

59:02

looking at her little half up, half down hair.

59:05

And she's like, her hair is so straight.

59:08

It's so smooth. She's

59:10

like, there's no way that

59:14

she didn't straighten it. Oh my god.

59:17

Dastardly. She's standoffish

59:19

the whole wedding. She's so mad.

59:21

Rose's new in-laws are like,

59:24

I love that you wore your hair naturally. It's so brave.

59:26

It's so bold. Deb is like, I can't do

59:28

this. Kurt

59:31

comes to get her for the family photo after the

59:33

wedding. And she's like, I don't want to do it. I

59:35

don't want to take the photo. No thank you. And Kurt's

59:37

like, you have to come take the photo. Come take the

59:39

photo. So she goes in a huff, takes

59:41

the photo.

59:43

Kurt and Rose are now looking at this photo in the

59:45

present time.

59:46

The only person smiling in the

59:48

whole photo is Rose. She has the

59:51

biggest smile on her face. Everyone

59:53

else around her is miserable. Kurt's

59:56

like, look at Heather. Look at Deb's

59:58

hair. Look at my hair.

59:59

my face and they all just like look so

1:00:02

sad. He's

1:00:05

like, you can't give this present to

1:00:07

dad for Christmas. Deb will

1:00:09

take it as evidence that you hate her.

1:00:13

Yeah, she will. And

1:00:15

Rosa's like, okay, that's fair. I won't give it to her for

1:00:17

Christmas. But did Heather take

1:00:20

the straightener? Did

1:00:22

Heather hide it? And Kurt's like, no. And

1:00:25

Rosa's like, are you sure? And Kurt's like,

1:00:28

yeah, I mean, I'm sure she's my like, wife.

1:00:31

And Rosa's like, well, did they find it? Like, where

1:00:33

is it?

1:00:34

You know how Airbnb is have all kinds of like weird checkout

1:00:37

rules that are annoying? Uh huh. The next

1:00:39

morning, everyone was like cleaning up packing up the house. Rose

1:00:41

was obviously not doing this because she was somewhere else at

1:00:43

her like a little B&B being chill. There

1:00:46

were clean towels stacked on top of the dryer and

1:00:48

Kurt took them to put them back in the little

1:00:50

like closet. And the

1:00:53

closet is like near the bathroom, but not in the bathroom.

1:00:55

And at the top of the he puts

1:00:57

them up there and his hand like brushed something.

1:01:01

And he pulls from the very top shelf,

1:01:03

the straightener. So someone

1:01:05

had used it and put it on the very top shelf.

1:01:08

Someone had put it on the very top shelf.

1:01:10

Like it seemed like kind of in an nefarious

1:01:13

I don't want someone to find this type of way. Well,

1:01:16

that's what I'm posing to you. I think that

1:01:18

there are four people that

1:01:20

could have done this. No one has mentioned

1:01:22

that maybe the dog did it. But okay. Or

1:01:24

the dog for people and the dog who

1:01:27

could have done this. Okay, who would

1:01:29

you like to start with? What are your feelings? Who

1:01:31

are you leaning toward? Um,

1:01:34

I don't think Heather hit it. I

1:01:37

also think Heather did not straighten her hair. I think

1:01:39

Deb was in a funk. Deb wanted evidence

1:01:41

that Heather took this hair straightener, looked at her hair

1:01:44

and was like, it looks really straight to me.

1:01:46

Like I don't think there was like any evidence.

1:01:48

I wait, Sally, do you agree that it's not Heather?

1:01:51

I think it is Heather. I mean,

1:01:53

couldn't be more wrong because you're more. Okay,

1:01:56

because

1:01:59

It sounded to me like when Deb

1:02:02

was was saying to Heather,

1:02:04

like I can't find my straightener. Heather didn't

1:02:06

behave the way someone

1:02:09

who hadn't

1:02:10

hidden a straightener would behave. Like I

1:02:12

think like you'd be like, oh my God, shoot, did

1:02:14

I misplace it?

1:02:15

Like, let me help you look. I was the last

1:02:17

one to use it. Let me help this person find

1:02:20

it. But it sounds like Heather was, I

1:02:22

guess we don't know exactly, but it seems like

1:02:24

Heather didn't stop what she was doing at

1:02:26

any point to like look for it or anything. I'm

1:02:30

leaning Heather for this one. I

1:02:32

like where your head's at, Sally. I do. And

1:02:35

I want to say I appreciate it and

1:02:37

I appreciate your input.

1:02:39

I actually kind of agree.

1:02:40

She didn't act like a person because the

1:02:42

criminal always returns to the scene. So

1:02:44

you'd think that like, if she

1:02:47

hit it, Heather would be the one throwing off the scent, like

1:02:49

looking under the bed, knowing all the while.

1:02:52

Oh, yeah, I checked the laundry room. Like, oh,

1:02:54

yeah, I checked. It's not there. But

1:02:57

the other thing that has me kind of like got

1:03:00

is that like, Heather's not even a part

1:03:02

of this family. These are Heather's in-laws.

1:03:05

And then Deb is even another step removed

1:03:07

from that. This is her father-in-law's wife.

1:03:10

So like, I

1:03:13

would need to know more about Heather's relationship

1:03:16

with Kurt's family. Because

1:03:18

then this seems like there was, if it

1:03:20

was Heather, I feel like then this was the plan from

1:03:23

Heather all along. Like Heather wanted to sabotage

1:03:27

the wedding all along, but she's close enough with Rose

1:03:29

to be. So who need to think it is? You

1:03:31

know what I think it is? I think

1:03:33

when you hear hooves,

1:03:34

it's horses, not zebras

1:03:36

kind of thing. I bet at some point, one

1:03:39

of the groomsmen

1:03:41

brought an option from the laundry

1:03:43

room

1:03:44

and was told, you

1:03:46

fucking idiot, that is clearly

1:03:48

not a hair straightener. Yeah. So

1:03:51

he felt bad about himself, went back to the laundry

1:03:53

room, and just kind of like threw everything

1:03:56

else

1:03:56

up on the top of the thing. Oh,

1:03:59

that's interesting. Could it have been Deb? Is

1:04:01

there a world in which Deb fakes this whole

1:04:03

thing? Oh. Now,

1:04:05

that's interesting. No one that vain

1:04:08

would fake it to the point of looking bad at

1:04:13

looking not up to

1:04:15

your own personal standards at

1:04:18

the wedding of your daughter, of your stepdaughter,

1:04:21

who also doesn't give a shit what you look like. Deb

1:04:23

would have to be, I

1:04:25

think, a sociopath to do this

1:04:27

herself. Pardon my colloquial,

1:04:30

casual use of that phrase, because I don't think that's

1:04:32

diagnostically correct. But to

1:04:35

sabotage your own look, I'm

1:04:38

too vain for that. I wouldn't want those photos

1:04:40

out. So it was Kurt. You

1:04:42

think it's Kurt? Think

1:04:44

about it. Think about it. OK.

1:04:46

Kurt, married to Heather, loyalty

1:04:49

there. That's spousal.

1:04:52

What's it called in your case? Privilege. Spousal

1:04:54

privilege. Privilege, right. Spousal privilege. OK. Kurt's

1:04:56

definitely not loyal to Deb. Kurt has as

1:04:59

much invested as the dog being shunned

1:05:01

by Deb as Heather does. And

1:05:03

it leaves Heather clean. He

1:05:06

did the job for her. The

1:05:09

straightener became available to Heather when

1:05:11

Heather needed it. The straightener was not available to

1:05:14

Deb when Deb needed it. And wasn't it Kurt

1:05:16

who found the straightener?

1:05:20

Dun, dun, dun. Sally, what's

1:05:22

your final ruling? And then I'll give you the update.

1:05:24

You think it's Heather. You know? Yeah,

1:05:27

of course I know. Oh my god, I thought I was just going to have

1:05:29

to live with this forever. So a few

1:05:31

months after the wedding,

1:05:33

Dad and Deb broke up.

1:05:36

Twist. And everyone

1:05:39

was kind of relieved, except

1:05:41

for Rose, who was like, now literally

1:05:43

all of these photos are useless. Like, thank you

1:05:45

so much. So helpful. Nobody

1:05:48

can use them because Deb's in all of them.

1:05:51

And do you remember

1:05:53

at the beginning of the story

1:05:55

when Dad said that Deb didn't

1:05:58

want the dog there? Yeah.

1:05:59

that. So Deb never

1:06:02

said that. What did I say? I

1:06:05

said that you said that during their

1:06:07

breakup. Dad admitted

1:06:11

that she was like very over dramatic about the

1:06:13

straightener.

1:06:15

And Heather was like, well, it makes sense that she was

1:06:17

over dramatic about the straightener, because I bought that same

1:06:19

straightener that she had after the wedding and it rules.

1:06:22

Like I would be mad if I lost it too.

1:06:24

And Rose was like, Heather, there's like something weird

1:06:26

about the way that you're saying this. Did

1:06:29

you steal Deb's straightener? And Heather was like,

1:06:32

I mean, I wouldn't say I stole it.

1:06:35

Did I hide it? Yeah.

1:06:39

Oh, okay. I know that that's this isn't what

1:06:41

this entire thing is about, but I would

1:06:43

like to go on record saying I said, Deb

1:06:45

never said that about the dog. Yeah, Sally has

1:06:48

been honest in the beginning. So

1:06:51

listen, I know this isn't a competition, but

1:06:53

I did win. Congratulations, Sally.

1:06:56

How can you be a chill bride when your

1:06:58

maid of honor is like

1:07:01

this nefarious? This is awful. I don't

1:07:03

want to believe. I don't want to believe people are this bad.

1:07:05

This is like actually kind of difficult for me to think about.

1:07:09

Why would you do that to somebody? It's

1:07:11

just not nice. So this

1:07:14

is this is all we knew for a while. But

1:07:17

right before we were supposed to record,

1:07:19

we got an email from the person who sent

1:07:22

us this in. And

1:07:24

they said that they had heard from their friend of a friend that this

1:07:26

came from that dad

1:07:28

and Deb went on a pre-booked vacation

1:07:30

to Mexico together after their breakup.

1:07:33

And they have gotten back together. Good.

1:07:36

Wait a second. See you at Christmas, Deb.

1:07:39

Have a happy holiday. So Deb

1:07:40

is back. Tell Deb to us part. Yes.

1:07:43

Yeah, she's back. Team

1:07:45

Tab. Rose is the

1:07:47

only person who knows all of this. That's

1:07:51

so not chill. You call in your local

1:07:53

gossip podcast. That's

1:07:57

the only option. You take this to your grave. This is

1:07:59

like the thing.

1:07:59

you have to live with. You have to

1:08:02

live with a secret forever. I feel

1:08:04

like if I'm Rose, I feel like I'm

1:08:06

well, she can't enter a relationship with Heather, I guess, because

1:08:08

Heather's married to her brother.

1:08:10

All of these people are just they sound really

1:08:13

just chaotic. And I don't understand how they

1:08:15

maintain their relationships, like even outside of

1:08:17

this story. Yeah, me too.

1:08:20

I think it's a very difficult position

1:08:22

to be in

1:08:24

to have Deb returning,

1:08:26

knowing this information, because it's

1:08:28

like you are now in the middle of every problem.

1:08:31

Yeah. Does Deb know like that Heather

1:08:34

is the one that hid the straightener? No.

1:08:36

Does Paul? No. Only

1:08:39

Rose knows. But then how did

1:08:42

the dog thing happen? Because

1:08:44

who was the one that said Deb doesn't want the dog

1:08:46

here?

1:08:48

Dad told

1:08:48

her. Where did he get that information from? Because

1:08:51

Deb never said that.

1:08:53

Yes. So that's the thing is he made it up

1:08:55

because he was planning to break up with Deb the whole time. Jesus

1:08:58

Christ.

1:08:59

Oh, my God. All of these people are monsters.

1:09:02

They're all bad people. You know,

1:09:04

when you're in elementary school and in gym

1:09:06

class and they made you spread out and you have to do airplane

1:09:08

arms and you can't hit anybody? Yeah.

1:09:10

These are all people who hit people when they're in

1:09:13

airplane arms. These people all think

1:09:15

that their actions don't affect other people.

1:09:18

Who's we are at the very end. Whose side

1:09:20

are you on? Deb.

1:09:22

Deb. You're on your side. I'm on Deb's side, yeah,

1:09:25

for sure.

1:09:26

Deb is like the only not

1:09:29

bad actor in this whole story. Yeah.

1:09:32

Team Deb. But also Deb, know

1:09:34

your worth. Leave Paul. He

1:09:37

threw under the bus about a dog. What else

1:09:39

can this man do? Dump

1:09:41

him. Dump him, Deb. Babe.

1:09:45

Dump him.

1:09:47

Sally and Caroline, thank you so much for coming

1:09:50

on the show. It was so late to have you.

1:09:52

My day. No, that was incredible.

1:09:55

That story had everything. Thank you

1:09:57

for that. This was Knives Out.

1:10:03

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If

1:10:05

you have a gossip story to share with us, email

1:10:07

us at normalgossip at defector.com

1:10:10

or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP.

1:10:14

If you love this podcast and want us to

1:10:16

keep making it, become a friend or a friend

1:10:19

of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com.

1:10:22

You can follow the show on Instagram and

1:10:24

TikTok at normalgossip. You

1:10:27

can follow Kelsey on all social media

1:10:29

at McKinneyKelsey. This podcast

1:10:32

was produced by Alex

1:10:33

Sujan-Loflin. Diana

1:10:35

Moskovitz is our story editor. Justin

1:10:38

Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Jasper

1:10:41

Wang and Sean Coon are Defector's

1:10:43

business guys. Tom Lay

1:10:45

is our editor-in-chief. J. Tulvera

1:10:48

is our production assistant. Dan McQuaid

1:10:50

runs our merch store, which you can find

1:10:52

at normalgossip.store. Tara

1:10:55

Jacoby designed our show art. Thank

1:10:57

you to Diana Moskovitz for her help on this

1:10:59

episode. Thank you to the rest of

1:11:01

the Defector staff. Defector

1:11:04

Media is a collectively owned, subscriber-based

1:11:06

media company. Normal Gossip is

1:11:08

a proud member of Radiotopia. Normal

1:11:11

Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney. I'm

1:11:14

Crystal Mendoza, and remember, you did

1:11:16

not hear this from me.