0:00

Hey, it's Allan, and I just wanted to

0:02

let you know that you can now listen to the ongoing

0:04

history of new music early and add free

0:06

on Amazon music, included with

0:08

Prime. Have you ever

0:11

had to work together with your significant other?

0:13

And I don't mean anything like housework or

0:15

parenting or anything like that. I'm talking about a

0:17

job your primary source of income, where

0:20

the two of you have to work on the

0:22

same things under the same circumstances,

0:25

maybe even in the same place.

0:27

Now, this can go in one of two ways.

0:29

First, the bond between you grow stronger

0:31

because you have shared interests and goals

0:33

and frustrations. Your combined

0:35

knowledge and talents can make things perceived more

0:37

efficiently and perhaps in directions

0:40

to uninvolve people might never

0:42

think to take. Or things

0:44

can go south. No life work

0:46

balance, disagreements and how the work

0:48

should be

0:48

done. And this kind of thing

0:51

has led to lots of on happiness and fights and

0:53

maybe a break up. So is it is it worth it?

0:56

When it comes down to the history of rock, there

0:58

are a lot of couples working in

1:00

the same bands. Sometimes things

1:02

work out great. Other times these

1:04

arrangements annoy others in the And

1:07

if the couple breaks up, Does the band

1:09

break up too or does everybody just suck

1:11

it up and keep going? And then

1:13

there's the worst case scenario when one

1:15

member of the couple decouples when

1:18

one member of the band and then

1:20

couples up with someone else within

1:22

the same group. What

1:24

happens then? Time for

1:26

a little couples therapy. Let's see

1:28

if we can sort through everything from what did bliss

1:30

to horrible divorces and breakups.

1:34

This is the ongoing history of

1:36

new music podcast with Altonox.

1:41

Welcome again. I'm only Cross and this

1:43

is a look at personal relationships and

1:46

bands through the history of rock and all

1:48

the goodness and awfulness that

1:50

can result. John Lennon's

1:52

marriage so Yoko Ono is said to have caused

1:54

all kinds of tensions within the Beatles.

1:56

When Paul McCartney married Linda Eastman,

1:59

Baca was introduced to her father, Lee,

2:01

who was an entertainment lawyer, who handled

2:03

the finances of a lot of musicians. The

2:05

Beatles were thrown into a management crisis

2:08

after the death of Brian Epstein, three

2:10

of them wanted to go with Rolling Stone's manager,

2:13

Alan Klein, while Paul

2:15

wanted to deal with his father-in-law. And

2:17

that tension that disagreements went

2:19

a long way towards ending the Beatles.

2:22

Abbott was made up of two couples and

2:25

then both couples divorced, which pretty

2:27

much ended the band in December nineteen eighty

2:29

two. The canoodling that went

2:31

on in Fleetwood Mac during the recording

2:33

of the rumors album has been documented many

2:35

times. It's legendary. Everybody seemed to be

2:37

fooling around with everybody else. And

2:40

when all those combinations were exhausted,

2:42

members started messing around with people outside

2:44

the bed. Yet for some reason,

2:46

everyone was able to stick it out for

2:48

years after toward, which must have been

2:50

awkward. Maybe it was the cocaine.

2:52

I I don't know. After all, this is a group that once thought

2:54

about giving their Coke dealer credit on their albums

2:57

liner notes. But anyway, There

2:59

were all kinds of issues with the mamas and Pappas,

3:02

the abusive relationship of Eikentina

3:04

Turner, Sunny and Cher were married in

3:06

the mid sixties and shared a career that spanned records

3:08

in television until they divorced in nineteen seventy

3:10

five. But then there's Pat Benoitraraldi,

3:14

the guitarist in her Pat. He was her

3:16

second husband, and they married in nineteen

3:18

eighty two. They've been together ever since.

3:20

And in twenty twenty two, we're inducted into

3:22

the Rockenroll Hall of Fame together. And

3:24

here's one more. Wendy Melvoyn was

3:26

a big part of Prince's band for a while.

3:29

She married bandmate Lisa Coleman. That

3:31

ended in divorce, but they're still working

3:33

as musical partners. Let's

3:36

go through some successful relationships. Chris

3:38

France and Tina Waymo were the rhythm

3:40

section for the talking heads. They

3:42

met at the Rhode Island School of Design in

3:44

nineteen seventy three when Chris was

3:46

in a band called The Artistics. Tina

3:49

joined the band in nineteen seventy five, and in nineteen

3:51

seventy seven, they moved to New York and became part

3:53

of the talking heads. They married that same year

3:55

and have been together ever since. There

3:58

were all those tucking heads albums. And

4:00

then in nineteen eighty, they formed the TomTom

4:02

Club, a funky dance oriented band.

4:04

They've also worked as producers for other

4:06

accents of a tag team way, and that

4:08

includes the happy Mondays in the Yes Please album

4:10

in nineteen ninety two. They're of been

4:13

contributions to records by Siggi Marley and the

4:15

melody makers as well as Gorillas. A

4:17

happy couple then. Maybe it's because they've

4:19

always been in sync rhythmically.

4:35

Here's another happy couple Susie Sue

4:37

and Budgy, the drummer for Susie and The

4:39

Banchies. The Banchies were

4:41

one of the founders of modern

4:44

Goth culture. And even though they hated

4:46

that tag, they are inseparable from

4:48

that scene. Susie is still considered

4:50

to be the Queen of Goth by many fans

4:52

even though the group broke up in nineteen ninety

4:54

six. Budgy joined the band in

4:56

nineteen seventy nine about two years after

4:58

the banshees reform and during a personnel

5:00

crisis that saw the group split in two.

5:02

The two grew so close that they had

5:04

their own side project called Thecreatures. And

5:06

in nineteen ninety one, they got married

5:09

and moved into an appropriately Gothic

5:11

place. A castle type thing

5:13

in the south of France. That relationship

5:15

seemed to work quite well but began to

5:17

suffer in the early two thousands. And,

5:20

sadly, in August two thousand seven, After

5:22

so many years, they publicly announced their

5:24

divorce. They'd been together for about

5:26

twenty five years married for fifteen. Susie

5:29

never remarried, although Budgy did, He

5:31

has two children. And through it all, they've

5:33

kept the details of the relationship very,

5:35

very high. Another

5:48

long husband and wife collaborative relationship

5:50

ended when Sonic Youth blew up over

5:52

an extramarital affair. Qatar's

5:55

thirsted more at base player Kim Gordon founding

5:57

members of the band in nineteen eighty one.

5:59

Together with Guitarsley Ronaldo and German

6:01

Steve Shelly, they made Sonic Youth into the

6:03

quintessential American indie rock band throughout

6:05

the nineteen eighties. Thurston and

6:07

Kim got married on June ninth nineteen eighty

6:09

four, and ten years later, they had a daughter

6:11

named Coco. In nineteen

6:13

ninety, Sonic Youth shock their contemporaries by

6:15

signing a major record deal with DGC

6:18

records resulting in a record called GOO.

6:21

And it was because of this deal that DGC

6:23

also got their hands on this little bed called

6:25

Nirvana. Kurt Cobain was

6:27

a huge sonic youth fan and

6:29

figured that, well, if Sonic Youth

6:31

could sign a deal like this and still retain creative

6:33

control, then so could Nirvana. And

6:36

it was Thurston who tipped DGC to

6:38

the exist of Nirvana in the

6:40

first place. Nirvana signed

6:42

release never mind, Reston's history.

6:45

Sonic Youth seemed like such a solid

6:47

crew They released album after album,

6:49

all of which submitted their position as one

6:51

of the world's great avant guard rock

6:53

bands. They even headlined La La

6:55

Palooza in nineteen ninety five. But

6:57

then on October fourteenth twenty

6:59

eleven, Thirsten and Kim announced

7:01

that they were separating after twenty seven

7:03

years of marriage. Why?

7:06

Because Thirsten had a fling with an art

7:08

book dealer named Eva Prince. She

7:10

was also married at the time, by the way. And

7:12

the divorce came through in twenty thirteen.

7:15

Last I heard, Thirsten was living in London

7:17

with Prince while Kim continues to release solar

7:19

material, work on museum exhibits,

7:21

and pursue interest in the fashion industry.

7:24

She also has a member called girl in a

7:26

band, which is very good if you haven't read

7:28

it. Go back to the goo album, a record that

7:30

turned out to be a major hinge point in the whole

7:32

history of alternative rock. Here's

7:34

cool thing. Back

7:50

with more stories of relationships within bands,

7:52

both successful and not so successful.

7:54

So hang tight. This is a

7:56

program that looks at romantic relationships

7:59

with Envance. Some have worked

8:01

out wonderfully. Others

8:03

have worked out for a while, and others have been

8:05

a disaster. Let's go through a few

8:07

more. The cramps were

8:09

an important, and in my view,

8:11

very underrated part of the New York

8:13

Alternative scene throughout the nineteen eighties.

8:15

Their sound combined elements of Garage Walk

8:17

and SURF Music and something that became known

8:19

as Psycobilly and Gothabilly. The

8:22

cramps were equal part punks and horror

8:24

movie. In fact, Singer Luxe's

8:26

Interior would later be hired for

8:28

his ability to scream. If you've

8:30

ever seen Francis Ford Copley's version

8:32

of Dracula, That's not gary old of doing the

8:34

screaming. That's Luxe. The other

8:36

half of the band was Poison Ivy

8:38

Luxe's wife. Her guitar style was

8:40

seen as an essential influence on

8:42

certain areas of rock universe. In

8:45

real life, they were Eric Lee, Perkiser

8:47

and Christie Marlena Wallace.

8:49

They met in Sacramento back in nineteen

8:51

seventy two and were drawn together by

8:53

their love of horror movies and record collecting.

8:55

By nineteen seventy five, they'd formed the

8:57

cramps and were playing places like CBGB

8:59

alongside the Ramones and blondey

9:01

and talking heads and Patty Smith and so many

9:03

others. Other members in the

9:05

cramps came and went, but Luxe and Poison

9:07

Ivy stayed together recording and performing until

9:09

two thousand six. But then

9:11

on February fourth two thousand nine,

9:14

luck suddenly died. After

9:16

suffering an aortic dissection, an

9:18

undiagnosed condition where your

9:20

aorta, the largest artery in your artery

9:22

bursts and you bleed out internally

9:24

in seconds. This is the same thing that killed

9:26

Andy Fletcher of the Peshkabir in twenty twenty

9:28

two. Ivy Alex had been married

9:30

for thirty seven years. Here's

9:32

a sample of what they did together. This is from

9:34

nineteen eighty four, and you might remember it from the

9:37

Netflix series. Wednesday's time.

9:41

You better

9:44

die when I show

9:46

up. Here's

9:55

another enduring, married partnership. Steven

9:57

Morris and Gillian Gilbert's of New

9:59

Order. Steven was the

10:01

drummer in Joy Division until the singer

10:03

Ian Curtis died. The band then

10:05

reform briefly as a trio under the name New

10:07

Order and set down the same

10:09

sort of sonic path that Jordi

10:11

Vision had. But that all changed when

10:13

Stephen's girlfriend, that's Jillian,

10:15

joined unsynthesizers. She'd been

10:17

a fan of Jordovision and had her

10:19

own band called The Inadequates. They

10:22

were her's next door to Joy Vision, which

10:24

is how she met Stephen. They started

10:26

dating even before she was asked to join the band

10:28

and finally made it official with a wedding in nineteen

10:30

ninety four. They're an

10:32

interesting couple. Steven

10:34

was briefly a suspect in

10:36

the case of the Yorkshire Ripper,

10:38

an English serial killer who

10:40

murdered at least thirteen women.

10:43

Police noticed that the location of the

10:45

murders mirrored that of a nineteen

10:47

seventy nine Joy Division Tour and

10:49

thought that Steven might be their guy.

10:52

He wasn't, of course, and a sickle named

10:54

Peter Suttglyph was eventually

10:56

arrested. Gillian is tolerant

10:58

to Stephen's hobby of collecting vintage

11:00

military vehicles. He owns

11:02

several tanks that he keeps around

11:04

the house. They had a new order side

11:06

project called the other two that

11:08

recorded two albums. And

11:10

Jillian bowed out of new order for ten years so she could

11:12

spend more time with one of their daughters. Who suffered

11:14

from a serious neurological condition.

11:16

And a mistake by Gillian

11:19

helped turn one particular new

11:21

order song into their greatest hit.

11:23

Steven had programmed a drum machine

11:25

to be the song's intro. Gillian's

11:27

part came next, and her job was

11:29

to trigger a sequencer playing a melody.

11:32

But Because she

11:34

forgot to put one note into her

11:36

programming, her part was

11:38

out of sync with the beats. But

11:41

rather than change it, New order apparently

11:43

was looped on acid at the time. They

11:45

just left it as it was because the

11:47

mistake created some interesting tension within the

11:49

song. It's a good call.

11:51

This track eventually became the biggest selling twelve entry

11:54

mix ever. And now that you

11:56

know of Gillian's mistake, you're

11:58

never gonna hear this the same way again. New

12:15

order featuring the husband and wife team of Stephen

12:17

Morrison drums and Julian Gilbert on

12:19

keyboards. One couple

12:21

that's deliberately obfuscated their

12:23

relationship was Jack and Meg White of the White

12:25

Stripes. For the last time,

12:27

They are not, nor ever have been, brother

12:30

and sister. The story

12:32

begins with Jack Gilles, an apprentice

12:34

upholstered and a member of a bunch of different Traournaria

12:36

bands. He met MedWite at high school.

12:39

Later, she had a job at a restaurant called

12:41

Memphis Smoke in downtown Royal Oak,

12:43

Michigan, which is the same place

12:45

where Jack was bold enough to read his poetry

12:47

during open mike nights. They

12:49

got to talking about Jack's music in his

12:51

poetry, and they talked about

12:53

her ambitions of becoming a

12:55

chef They started hanging out at record

12:57

stores and music venues and coffee shops,

12:59

and then they started dating

13:01

seriously. That continued until they got

13:03

married on September twenty first nineteen

13:05

ninety six. And in a change in tradition,

13:07

Jack took her last name. So

13:10

Jack Gilles became Jack

13:12

White. continued to play in

13:14

bands and she continued to work in the restaurant

13:16

business until July fourteenth nineteen ninety

13:18

seven. Jack had his drum kit

13:20

set up at home, and Meg

13:22

suddenly decided to sit down and started

13:24

bashing away. She had no idea what she was doing because she

13:26

had no experience on the drums whatsoever,

13:28

but I quote Jack. When she

13:30

started to play the drums with me, just don't know

13:32

Lark, it felt liberating and refreshing.

13:34

There was something in it that

13:36

opened me up. Alright? So why

13:38

not for my band? Okay? But what

13:40

about a name? Bazooka was

13:42

one possibility and soda powder

13:44

was another. But then they said along the

13:46

white stripes because Meg's favorite

13:48

candy are those strike the peppermint things that

13:50

are big every Christmas. Their first

13:52

gig was at a place called the gold dollar

13:54

bar Detroit on August fourteenth nineteen

13:56

ninety seven. Which was about three

13:58

weeks after MEG first learned how to

14:00

play. At first, they

14:02

pretended to be brother and sister just to throw

14:04

everybody off. They refused to be

14:06

interviewed separately, and by nineteen ninety

14:08

nine, they began recording on a semi

14:10

regular basis. But the marriage

14:12

didn't last. And they divorced on March 24th

14:14

two thousand. However, in

14:16

an absolutely remarkable bit

14:18

of amicability, They

14:22

continued to work together as the white stripes even as

14:24

both of them got involved with other people.

14:26

Jack and actor Renee Zellwicker, Jack

14:28

and modeled Karen Ellison, In fact,

14:30

when Jack married Karen, he was in a canoe on

14:32

the Amazon River on June first two

14:34

thousand five, and Meg served as

14:36

the maid of honor. And then when

14:38

Meg married a guy named Jackson

14:40

Smith, the son of punk legend Patty Smith

14:42

in two thousand nine, the ceremony

14:44

took place in Jack's backyard in

14:46

Nashville. Even so, the white stripes had

14:48

an awesome run that ran until February

14:50

second twenty eleven when they announced that they were

14:52

breaking up. Meg, always very,

14:54

very shy. Wasn't into it

14:56

anymore and wanted a quieter life.

14:58

Jack, of course, wanted exactly the

15:00

opposite. As far as anyone can tell,

15:02

Meg lives quietly at Detroit Jack spends

15:04

most of his time in Nashville, although he goes back

15:06

and forth to Detroit. They'll

15:08

talk, but not that all. Back

15:20

with a couple more stories of couples and bands,

15:23

married ones, mostly, in just a

15:25

sec. Keeping a band together is always

15:27

a challenge. The longer your

15:29

career, the more things conspired to break

15:31

things up. And if there are romantic

15:33

relationships within the group, things can

15:35

get even more messy. Take

15:37

the case of arcade fire. In

15:39

two thousand, Wynn and his buddy

15:41

Josh were studying at university

15:43

in Montreal. That's when Wynn met

15:45

Rajin Sashan. Although she

15:47

was born in Montreal, her parents are from

15:49

Haiti and moved to Canada to escape the brutal

15:51

Duvalier dictatorship. Some

15:53

of her relatives were even killed in political

15:56

violence. Like when, she was studying at

15:58

McGill. She was taking jazz voice.

16:00

And it was while she was seeing at an art

16:02

gallery at Concordia that she met

16:04

Wynn. Hey, I've got a band he said,

16:06

and you should join, so she

16:08

did. In two thousand three, they were married,

16:10

and they still are despite all

16:12

the me too allegations and wins admitted

16:14

infidelity that became public in twenty

16:16

twenty two. They have one

16:18

son who was born in twenty thirteen.

16:20

Here's a happier story. The

16:23

Sundays were a great little English Alt

16:25

Rock band. In the late eighties and

16:27

early nineties who had a very

16:29

pleasant jangly sort of sound. They

16:31

met when singer Harriet Wheeler met

16:33

guitarist David Gavan while they attending Bristol

16:35

University in the middle eighties. They

16:37

started dating, then a ban was assembled,

16:39

and they got a deal with rough trade records.

16:41

A few records followed with long gaps

16:43

between all of them. When rough trade

16:45

ran into financial difficulties, they

16:47

started managing everything themselves. Having

16:49

a few British and international hits along the way.

16:51

And then in nineteen ninety seven, they

16:53

just stopped.

16:55

Harriet and David disappeared. Fans

16:58

grasped at any clues. There was

17:00

a minor revelation when Harry was spotted

17:02

at a supermarket. That was enough to

17:04

freak people out. Harry and David, who've

17:06

been married for years, decided that they

17:08

needed to spend more time with their kids.

17:10

K? Fair enough. According to

17:12

people who know them, they continue to make

17:14

music, but are too paranoid to release

17:16

anything. And even though one particularly

17:18

intense fan found their address and showed up

17:20

at their house, they didn't want to

17:23

talk. The other two members of the Sundays refused to talk as

17:26

well. The most visual member of the Sundays is

17:28

base player, Paul Brindley. He runs a

17:30

music industry website called

17:32

music ally which I use every

17:34

day and is very, very

17:36

good. The Sunday's biggest song came

17:38

in nineteen ninety from an album entitled

17:40

Reading, Running and Arithma Tech.

17:42

And like the trail leads to Harry and David, the

17:44

song is called, Here's where

17:46

the story ends. Here's

18:03

another long term married couple. In

18:05

fact, this indie group has been a going concern

18:07

since nineteen eighty four. Ira

18:09

Kaplan and Georgia Hubeley

18:11

would see each other the same shows at the same

18:13

record shops in New Jersey. And when they realized

18:16

they were both fans of the New

18:18

York Jets, poor guys. That

18:20

sealed the deal. Yellow tango

18:22

started in nineteen eighty four, and Ira

18:24

and Georgia have been married since nineteen eighty

18:27

seven. There were something eighteen Yolotango

18:29

albums, and the group went through thirteen base

18:31

players between nineteen eighty seven and nineteen

18:33

ninety two. A guy by the

18:35

name of James Macnew has had the job since then.

18:37

Let's try this. Let's try this. It's from a

18:39

nineteen ninety seven album titled, I can

18:41

hear the heart beating as

18:43

one. This is autumn sweater

18:45

from Yolotango. Oh,

18:47

would that be better?

18:51

It was not been the same.

19:02

Here are more rock and roll couples, married

19:05

or not. Denver, Harry, and

19:07

Christine, a long time

19:09

couple, but they never married. Lewis

19:11

and Blake Summit from Britain's Rylo Kylie,

19:14

dating but not married. James

19:16

EHA and Darcy Retzky of the smashing

19:19

pumpkins, dating broke up, and Darcy left the

19:21

band. Indy Darley's Matt and Kim

19:23

in a relationship, not

19:25

married. Tim Gayn and Leticia Sadier

19:27

of Stereolab a

19:29

relationship. They have a child but never

19:31

married and are now separated. I have

19:33

more. Elizabeth Fraser and Robin

19:35

Guthrie of the cocktail twins. Once a couple, half a daughter

19:37

broke up in nineteen ninety three, but the band

19:39

managed to last in nineteen ninety

19:41

seven. Gwen Stephane and Tony Cannell

19:43

from no doubt they were in a relationship, but

19:45

then broke up, yet were able to hold it

19:47

together as the ban went through their most

19:49

successful period back in the nineteen eighties.

19:52

Then we have Gwen and Gavin Rossdale of

19:54

Bush married in two thousand two

19:56

split in twenty fifteen. They have

19:58

children but we're never in the same band together. Same thing

20:00

with Lou Reed and Lori Anderson married

20:02

with her careers remained separate. X,

20:04

the groundbreaking San Francisco punk band.

20:07

Singer, Xene Sarvenka, and guitarist John

20:09

Doe, were married from nineteen eighty to nineteen

20:11

eighty five. She later married

20:13

actor Vigo Morgenstein. That

20:15

ended in divorce before she got married and

20:17

divorced again. And finally, Martha and

20:19

the muffins. Martha Johnson and founding member

20:22

Tim Gayn. Together since nineteen

20:24

eighty one, and despite what you may have

20:26

read, not married. Like

20:41

I said, at the beginning, being in a bed is hard enough

20:43

without the wind up potentially being complicated

20:46

by various romantic entanglements. It

20:48

is possible to wade through the pitfalls.

20:51

But as you've heard with these stories, the success

20:53

rates wasn't great, such as

20:55

the human condition. I didn't even

20:57

mention curtain curtain curtain because that's an

21:00

higher show on its own. We may

21:02

have to do that sometime. If you

21:04

like what you hear, there are hundreds of ongoing

21:06

history podcasts available through all the

21:09

platforms. They're all free, so you can just gorge on

21:11

as many as you want. If you have any

21:13

ideas for topics, let me know through allen

21:15

at allencross dot c a. Could meet up on

21:17

Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and even some TikTok

21:19

in there. And my website for music

21:21

news and information is available twenty four seven

21:23

at a Journal of musical things dot com. Get

21:25

the free daily newsletter and you'll never miss a thing. Technical

21:28

productions by Rob Johnston. Talk to you next

21:30

time. I'm Elling Cross. You've

21:32

been listening to the ongoing history of new music podcasts,

21:35

The Valin Cross. Subscribe to the

21:37

podcast through iTunes, Google

21:39

Play, Stitcher, Spotify,

21:42

and everywhere you find your favorite podcasts.

21:50

Taylor, I don't know about you, but sometimes when I read business

21:52

news, I can't help but think, what does any of

21:54

this have to do with me? I hear you,

21:55

Sarah. Like, why should I care about backlogs at

21:58

Vancouver's Port or our battery

22:00

supply chain. But

22:00

when you really dig into these stories, you start to

22:02

see they actually have a huge impact on our day to

22:04

day lives. And

22:05

that's exactly what we're gonna do on our new

22:07

weekly podcast, free lunch by the peak. explore

22:10

these issues through deep dive interviews with

22:12

Canada's brightest minds across economics,

22:14

business,

22:14

tech, and finance. Join us every Tuesday for new episodes. Search for

22:16

free lunch by the peak wherever you

22:18

get your podcasts.