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3:22

Welcome

3:44

to Pod Save America. I'm John Favreau. I'm John

3:46

Lovett. On today's show, Marjorie Taylor Greene

3:48

said she would have organized a more successful

3:51

coup. Kevin McCarthy still

3:53

can't find two hundred and eighteen votes for speaker,

3:55

and Kirsten Cinema leaves the Democratic

3:57

Party. Then Democratic senator Brian

3:59

Schottz joins to talk about democracy to

4:02

see the debt ceiling Twitter and

4:04

Hanukkah. He did talk about Hanukkah. He

4:06

did talk about Hanukkah. But first, Tommy

4:09

is out today for the very

4:11

best reason. He and Hannah are

4:13

home with their new baby girl,

4:15

Luzette, Luis Vitor, In

4:18

the happiest surprise imaginable, Hannah

4:20

got pregnant a few months after

4:22

their daughter, Margo, was still born.

4:24

And after a very long year,

4:27

Lizzie arrived on Tuesday. She is

4:29

beautiful. And after

4:31

a few scary days in the NICU, she is

4:33

home and doing well. And it

4:36

is just the absolute best feeling

4:39

seeing Hannah and Tommy just

4:41

radiate joy. Yeah. Really

4:43

happy to know. Yeah. really happy. So

4:45

best news ever, so happy and excited,

4:47

and Tommy will be taking some time,

4:50

hopefully. We don't know how long. Until then,

4:52

for us, It takes for two. Takes for two.

4:57

Takes for two. Takes for two. That's what we're calling

4:59

this episode. Alright. Let's get to the news.

5:01

In case anyone's still wondering where the

5:03

Republican Party is headed after running

5:05

a bunch of election deniers and then refusing

5:07

to ditch their twenty twenty four front runner

5:10

for dining with Nazis. We got

5:12

another hint at the young Republicans

5:14

event in New York City over the weekend.

5:17

I couldn't attend. Did you I

5:19

I assume you didn't attend either. No. No.

5:21

No. I I decide to I'm gonna go to the one

5:23

in LA. The one in LA. Right. Of course. So

5:25

after the organization's president said,

5:27

quote, we want total war and,

5:30

quote, must be prepared to do

5:32

battle In the streets,

5:35

Marjorie Taylor Green took the stage

5:37

and said this.

5:39

Then January six happens. The

5:41

next thing you know, I organized whole

5:43

thing along with Steve Bannon here.

5:45

And I have to tell you something. Steve Bannon

5:47

and I had organized that, we would have

5:49

won.

5:55

That commitment, it would have been

5:57

armed. They say that I was

5:59

thinking with the plan, and

5:59

I'm like, are you kidding me a bunch of conservative

6:02

second amendment supporters within the

6:04

capital, without funds, and they think we

6:06

organize that. I don't think

6:08

so. First

6:09

of all, I think she's overestimating her

6:11

organizational prowess. Yeah. There's no evidence

6:13

that she could put together in his direction. but

6:15

I also think she tells on herself a bit when

6:17

she says we would have won. You're

6:21

supposed to what? Okay.

6:26

So wild applause from the crowd,

6:28

which included Don Junior,

6:30

Steve Bannon, Rudy Giuliani, the

6:33

publishers of white nationalist website,

6:35

V Adaire. So then the White House

6:37

called on Republicans to condemn the

6:40

violent, dangerous remarks, in

6:42

response. Green put out a

6:44

statement. She said her comments were a

6:46

sarcastic joke. sarcastic

6:48

joke. And she went on in the statement to

6:50

attack drag queen celebrities and

6:52

a former Twitter employee fired by Elon

6:54

Musk as one does. Yeah. Sure. What do you

6:56

think of it? It was just sarcasm defense.

6:59

So it was just a joke. Didn't it sound like it was just

7:01

sounded like a joke? First of all, she said a lot

7:03

of things. and she meant she meant it all.

7:06

And the the other guy is saying, you know, we

7:08

wanna be prepared to do battle in every arena, the media,

7:10

the courtroom, the ballot box, and the streets. He means it

7:12

too. She

7:12

obviously she

7:13

means it. What she's saying is, we could do

7:16

this with guns, and we could be more successful

7:18

the next time. You know Also,

7:20

by the way, she's ignoring the fact that they

7:23

were armed. Many of them were armed. Yes.

7:25

Several people died. Several people died. Many of them

7:27

were armed. Anyway, we should assume they mean

7:29

this and not just in a sense that, like, that

7:32

that guy wants, like, cosplay as a brown

7:34

shirt when he says, like, we need we'll do battle in the streets. He doesn't

7:36

mean he's gonna do battle in the streets. He wants

7:38

to he wants, like, vulnerable and broken

7:41

angry young men to do battle in

7:43

the streets on his behalf that and,

7:45

you know, so that enough people take this kind of

7:47

rhetoric seriously, that, like, they'll

7:49

be part of protests at a direct show. They'll be

7:51

part of bomb threats at a children's hospital. They

7:53

will chase librarians out of their jobs.

7:55

They will firebomb a

7:58

donut shop that hosted

7:59

a drag show. So that's what they that's what they

8:02

want. They're very excited about that. When they say in the

8:04

streets, they're

8:04

they're they're proud and excited

8:07

about the intimidation that they can at least. Maybe they'll want a

8:09

bit of they'll they'll create some ironic distance

8:11

from the actual outcomes of what they're calling

8:13

for. but they want us to be intimidated.

8:15

They want people to be afraid. Yeah.

8:17

And look, you know, Marjorie

8:20

Taylor Green and a bunch of other Republican

8:22

entertainers pundits like this. They can

8:24

say that they're just joking or trolling,

8:26

you know, but fill a bump at the

8:28

Washington Post pointed out that there's

8:30

an enormous amount of polling now that

8:32

shows there's more sympathy for the

8:34

use of violence as a political response. By

8:36

the right, been increasing.

8:38

Most recently, a nonpartisan poll

8:40

found that one in three

8:42

Republicans agreed with

8:44

the statement Because things have gotten so far

8:46

off track, true American patriots

8:48

may have to resort to violence in

8:50

order to save the country. That's one

8:52

in three. So she can say that

8:54

she's joking. She can say that it's sarcasm, but

8:56

she is speaking in the context of an environment

8:59

where a third of

9:01

the party that she's part of actually

9:03

believes that violence could be a solution at some

9:05

point. And and, you know, like, I was

9:07

thinking about this. And there's this problem we

9:09

have now where the

9:11

conversation, when someone says

9:13

something like this, even when there's an insurrection of

9:15

the capital, we even saw it after dobs,

9:17

that immediately conversation is, what could happen next?

9:19

They could do contraception? They could do gay rights?

9:21

They could come after gay

9:23

marriage or even interracial marriage.

9:26

And it's like it's like

9:27

our political press is always taking laxatives. And

9:30

so, like, it just runs through things

9:32

really, really fast. It processes it way

9:34

too quickly. And like, hey, things

9:36

are pretty bad right now. We don't need to worry

9:38

about what's next. And and like,

9:40

there's this problem with always going to the

9:42

next thing. and it's it's two

9:44

problems. One, it does ignore how bad things

9:46

are already, but also it kind of makes

9:48

everything this conversation about one

9:50

big question, which is like, Will

9:52

America be a

9:54

free and inclusive democracy where people

9:56

are safe? And then everything

9:58

goes into that one question. If Republican election

10:00

deniers are defeated, it's seen as a rebuke to

10:02

Margaret Taylor Green, which in some sense it is.

10:04

But maybe there are two questions we're answering. And

10:06

one is, Will people like Marjorie

10:08

Taylor Green and Paul Gossar and Matt

10:10

Gates and and some of these right wing coups? Will they

10:12

have power enough in their Republican party to win

10:14

elections? Maybe maybe not. But they don't

10:16

need that power to answer a different question, which

10:18

is, can they make life in

10:20

America demonstrably worse

10:22

and scarier for people that don't

10:24

look and think like them. And they are already

10:26

successfully doing that. That is happening all the time. Howard

10:28

Bauchner: So there's always this

10:30

tension between between Wanting

10:33

to highlight and

10:35

condemn violent rhetoric like this and

10:37

not wanting to amplify and elevate

10:39

someone like green. We've talked about this a million

10:42

times. This is the second time

10:44

in two weeks that the White House has put

10:46

out a statement, not only condemning

10:48

this, but then calling on

10:51

every Republican leader, every leader

10:53

everywhere to also condemn this

10:55

dangerous rhetoric. Why do you think they've

10:57

decided to go this route? Yeah.

10:59

Well, I think first of all, just politically,

11:01

we did just go through a midterm election where

11:04

Democrats over performed in part

11:06

because of Republican embrace of

11:08

extreme people and policies, and we should

11:10

force every one of these Republicans to answer for people

11:12

like MTG every day in part because

11:14

we do force them to answer for it, we find that

11:16

they're terrified to do so, that they try to

11:18

avoid it as much as they can because of their

11:20

own political weaknesses

11:22

Also, eight in ten Americans right now

11:24

are concerned about political violence. As much as you're

11:26

right, you put there there is a rise of

11:28

violence acceptance on the part of Republicans.

11:30

But at the same time, the country itself is turning

11:33

against it. One reason it is

11:35

important for the White House to call this out is

11:37

because it's one of the biggest threats we face in this country,

11:39

and that's not coming from the administration. coming from law

11:41

enforcement officials. You start to look at

11:43

the list of what has been unfolding. You

11:45

have five people murdered the Colorado Springs

11:47

massacre a few weeks ago at a Gaybar call

11:49

club Q. The mask here at the Treolife synagogue in

11:51

Pittsburgh. That inspired the Poway shooter who

11:53

also tried to burn down a mosque, the El Paso

11:55

massacre, the Buffalo massacre, the Highland Park

11:57

massacre, the attack on Paul Pelosi,

11:59

the insurrection. You have far right Ghosn's menacing,

12:02

a drag show in Ohio. Glad counted a

12:04

hundred and twenty four protests and attacks, hard

12:06

to differentiate, between protests and

12:08

attacks now because they're really harassment campaigns

12:10

-- Yeah. -- that run the gamut from thugs

12:12

chasing drag queens down the street to

12:14

broken windows and storefronts to

12:16

people being forced to quit their jobs because they're

12:18

terrified of being attacked. And so you

12:20

have like Elon Musk on Twitter

12:22

claiming that like right free swiges

12:24

under attack because they took Hunter Biden's dick

12:26

pics off the Internet while there's like

12:28

actual violence. Actual threats

12:30

of violence curtailing actual speech every

12:32

day and like changing the way

12:34

people live because they're afraid of the right

12:36

wing in this country. Yeah.

12:37

And and and there's been it's a

12:39

noticeable increase. Right? Like,

12:42

just this year, right wing extremists have taken part in

12:44

at least fifty five actions targeting the gay

12:46

community, an increase of three hundred and

12:48

forty percent from just the year before in

12:50

twenty twenty one wasn't great. Yeah.

12:53

It's there's no it's never been great. And,

12:55

you know, the Department of Homeland

12:57

Security not a bunch of

12:59

woke liberals at the Department of Homeland

13:01

Security just issued a

13:03

terrorism advisory bulletin in

13:05

the last couple weeks that warned about violent extremist

13:08

targeting LGBTQ Jewish

13:10

and migrant communities. It's

13:12

happening all across the spectrum

13:14

It's targeting vulnerable communities and marginalized

13:17

communities all over the country.

13:19

And then, you know, at a higher

13:21

level, it's Republicans just saying that,

13:23

like, anyone who doesn't think like

13:25

them or look like them is

13:27

is not worthy of of

13:29

of being safe, feeling safe in

13:31

this country. And and, you know, when people

13:33

like Marjorie Taylor Green

13:35

say, oh, it was sarcastic. When they say they're

13:37

doing it with a wink and a that is not

13:39

new, that is very, very,

13:41

very old. Using irony,

13:43

treating it like you're being clownish, treating it like

13:45

a joke, treating it like you're just trying

13:47

to freak the lips. Like, this is an

13:49

old strategy for laundering hateful

13:51

ideas. The the people that

13:53

know what they mean know what they mean

13:55

and the most broken The

13:57

most dangerous, the most isolated

13:59

are the people that are gonna take these kinds of ideas

14:01

to their logical conclusions. And

14:04

these people think they can have possible. The nigh ability

14:06

by claiming it's a joke, by claiming they never

14:08

actually directly encourage violence, but that's what they're

14:10

stoking every day. They're just raising the temperature

14:12

every single day. And in the flip

14:13

side, back to the question

14:15

of, like, why the Biden folks why

14:18

the White House was so quick to put out a

14:20

statement. Obviously, there's a political reason.

14:22

Obviously, it's just like the right thing to do. But

14:24

I also think there's a practical effect here.

14:26

Like, we know that when

14:28

leaders condemn this kind of

14:30

rhetoric, they make it more difficult

14:32

for their supporters to

14:34

embrace it and to potentially incite that. Right?

14:36

Just as Marjorie Taylor Green

14:38

and others by, you know,

14:41

joking around are more likely

14:43

to incite this kind of violence. You can

14:45

prevent this kind of violence when people in

14:47

positions of authority people who

14:49

a lot of people in this country look up to or

14:51

take cues from say enough is

14:53

enough. There's a it can be a vicious circle

14:55

or a virtuous circle. between the

14:57

base of a party and the leaders of that party.

14:59

Yeah. And Democrats, I think we're

15:01

not paying enough attention to what has been happening,

15:03

not just over the last six years, for the last thirty,

15:06

forty years as that conversation

15:08

gotten more and more heated as

15:10

right wing radio and right wing extremism found

15:12

more and more quarter. And

15:14

it got to the point in the Trump years where these

15:16

leaders and officials felt they were

15:18

no longer in charge. They no longer have the power

15:20

to denounce it. that the Trump movement was

15:22

not just, like, politically potent. It was electoral

15:25

successful, and they became afraid when

15:27

you see little cracks in that, when you see

15:29

election in Irish star to lose and you see

15:31

Republicans, a few of them anyway, even if

15:33

they're too afraid to actually denounce Trump by name, and

15:35

you see just little bits of space. Like, we have

15:37

to get into that space and, like, push

15:39

them. and that space bigger, not just because it's

15:41

gonna help us defeat Republican

15:43

extremist, but because that's how over the

15:45

next so many years we can begin

15:47

to, like, go in a better direction, there has to be a

15:49

way out of this. Yeah. So a

15:51

decent number of Republicans in Congress

15:53

responded to Trump's latest bullshit by

15:55

saying, oh, he's unlikely to win, you you know,

15:57

we're That's a an understandable strategy

16:00

and maybe an an effective one within the

16:02

context of a Republican primary. It

16:04

doesn't really apply to green. No.

16:06

And Most of the Republicans

16:08

in congress most of the Republican politicians, they've

16:10

been pretty quiet today. What do you think that

16:13

is? I don't think they feel like they have to respond or

16:15

anything get away with being quiet. They're probably right. oh, she's

16:16

just a cooke. You know, she's doing her cookie thing. We're

16:19

kind of all it's all been a it's all sort of baked

16:21

into, like, the stock price of her.

16:23

And nobody's pushing them. Nobody's and

16:25

they don't have to they don't have to account for it. I

16:27

also

16:27

think that Kevin McCarthy needs her

16:29

to be speaker. Well, that's why

16:31

he specifically can't say anything. Right? Kevin McCarthy

16:33

that he needs every vote. I mean, first of

16:36

all, yeah, this week he wants to be speakers.

16:38

He's always wanted to be speaker. Kevin McCarthy

16:41

promised to put Paul Gossar and Marla Taylor Marjorie

16:43

Taylor Green back on their committees. Long

16:45

before he knew he was gonna be in a four

16:47

seat fight, to become speaker of the house. He

16:49

capitulated to these people long ago. But it and

16:51

it's like but because he needs her

16:54

to be speaker, She knows

16:56

that she now gets to say and do

16:58

whatever the fuck she wants. Yeah. Not

17:00

like she was holding

17:02

back before -- Yeah. -- contained. But now,

17:04

she knows that she has real power in the

17:07

Republican Party and no one's really

17:09

gonna punish her because Kevin McCarthy

17:11

wants to keep his job. And, like, by

17:13

the way, Mitch McConnell has growing problem in

17:15

the senate too. Like, he used to just have

17:17

Ted Cruz. Now he's got a whole bunch of Ted

17:19

Cruzes in his caucus. And so he's gonna

17:21

worry about that shit too. Yeah.

17:23

It's not good. Well, let's talk more about Kevin

17:25

McCarthy who seems to be the most miserable person

17:27

in Washington right now. That is the that's the

17:29

silver lining. He needs

17:32

two hundred eighteen votes to become speaker. Six House

17:35

Republicans known as the

17:37

Never Kevin Movement. Yeah.

17:40

I love that.

17:43

Have already said they won't vote for

17:45

him, which leaves him with

17:47

two hundred and sixteen votes at most.

17:50

And that's a lot of Republicans, especially

17:52

new members, still haven't said how they'll vote. So

17:54

it could be more than five or six I

17:56

think there's, like, four who said, like,

17:58

no matter what, they'll never ever vote for

18:00

them. And then the fifth and sixth are

18:02

sort of, like, in a one said, like, in

18:04

an extreme circumstance. They're wobbly they're

18:07

wobbly enough that he could just

18:09

get the boats he needs. Yeah. But he so far he

18:11

doesn't have we should also say that McCarthy's

18:13

opponent, Andy Biggs, also doesn't have

18:15

anywhere near two hundred eighteen votes.

18:17

So here's what pro McCarthy Republican

18:20

Don Bacon of Nebraska said the other

18:22

day, quote, if this small

18:24

group refuses to play ball,

18:26

we'll work across the aisle

18:28

to find an agreeable Republican. You

18:30

think that's possible? Well,

18:33

I think first of all, you

18:35

know,

18:36

Don, don't threaten us with a good time

18:39

here. That is that is a

18:41

that that is a threat that is a threat

18:43

to to these That's all. That is you

18:45

you and Ron Sorkin aren't right in the

18:47

Look. Alright. Listen. Right in this

18:49

episode. If Palm If

18:52

Kevin McCarthy, the only plausible Bring

18:54

us Cheney. Bring us You get Cheney.

18:57

You get Cheney. Did I hear

18:59

speaker Gothaimer? Is

19:01

it that the problem the problem solvers

19:03

caucus day to rule?

19:05

Pretty straightforward from here. Yeah. Speakers

19:07

and I'm not co speakers. Those

19:10

speakers. speaker Lieberman? Come

19:13

on. It's

19:13

You know, you know, there's nowhere in the rule book that

19:15

says a dog can't play basketball.

19:18

ah Yeah. So

19:19

first of all, this is just a threat. But even

19:21

if it's not like you just look at this, if

19:23

the only plausible person who is Kevin McCarthy

19:25

can't be speaker, do get to some pretty implausible

19:28

people. We will see. But right now,

19:30

this seems to be something

19:32

you're saying to remind

19:34

the caucus that the alternative to Kevin

19:36

McCarthy isn't Jim Jordan?

19:38

It's somebody that is

19:41

palatable to a

19:43

group of Democrats. Yeah. Some of the

19:45

people float being floated where, like like you said, Liz

19:47

Cheney or or or Justin Amash

19:49

or, you know, there's or or some, like,

19:51

more modern Republican. But

19:53

then, again, you would

19:55

need every single house

19:57

Democrat to vote for this Republican

19:59

plus the handful of

20:01

Republican moderates in

20:03

the to get to eighteen.

20:05

Whatever number of def whatever well, whatever number

20:07

of Republicans were agreeing to go along with this

20:09

deal. Right. Right. Plus whatever Democrats, I

20:11

mean, you have a bunch of Democrats standing up

20:13

and saying, Hi. I a Democrat elected with Democratic

20:15

votes in this district. hereby, would like to make

20:17

this room talk to your member Fred Upton.

20:19

Yeah. It's

20:21

a tough it's tough tough in practice. I think

20:23

what it does seem like these people will see

20:25

what happens in the next couple weeks. It does

20:27

seem like this group of Republicans wants

20:30

to embarrass Kevin McCarthy, there is

20:32

little penalty for making sure that

20:34

McCarthy loses the first vote. Right.

20:36

Right. Like, what's that gonna do? It's gonna embarrass

20:38

Kevin McCarthy not gonna hurt Republicans

20:40

otherwise. Everyone listening, obviously, every

20:42

single person listening in his podcast remembers in great

20:44

detail at the moment John Baehner lost his

20:46

first vote. Don't you?

20:48

Yeah. Literally something I forgot about until these

20:50

stories -- Yeah. -- that that he did. And then

20:52

I remembered it. So, yeah, you

20:54

could see that. Look, I I could see

20:56

a scenario where just to get him, McCarthy

20:59

loses, can't get to to eighteen,

21:02

And then, like, Steve Skalise ends up being the consensus

21:04

job for speaker just so that the the

21:06

never Kevin movement can

21:09

can get their guy. Yeah. Look,

21:11

look, I look, I don't presume to understand the minds of

21:13

the never Kevin Movement. But I

21:15

don't think they understand their minds. Two points about

21:17

they don't either. But two points about this. One,

21:21

regardless

21:23

of who the person is, like, let's not just

21:25

it's not just about personalities. It

21:27

is about the the structure here.

21:29

and whoever this person is. They will be beholden

21:32

to Marjorie Taylor Green and Paul Gossar, they

21:34

will face the same problem. They're all

21:36

Kevin McCarthy. whoever speaker of the house will

21:38

be Kevin McCarthy in some way or

21:40

another? And then the question is, will these

21:42

Republicans rather get

21:44

Kevin McCarthy's head? or get

21:46

some concessions for

21:48

relenting to him. And to me, it seems like that's

21:50

we don't know, but that's the most likely likely

21:53

direction we're heading Well, let's talk about that. So seven

21:55

incoming House Republicans were still

21:57

undecided. These are not the same people as the never

21:59

cabin movement. Yeah. These are the main cabin there

22:01

maybe cabin Alright. So seven,

22:03

maybe Kevin's. Just Kevin,

22:05

if you're nasty. Just

22:08

issued a series of demands to McCarthy.

22:10

what are some of them and and what happens if he accepts them?

22:12

Alright. Here they are. They make it possible for any

22:14

member to force a vote on removing the

22:17

speaker. put a pin in that one. We're coming back to that one.

22:19

That's what Mark Meadows did once to fuck with Vayner

22:22

require at least three days to review the final bill

22:24

taxes for a vote. Yeah. We've tried that one

22:26

before. Okay. Great. What do you need to read it? fix

22:28

it. VAR Republican leaders impacts from

22:30

getting involved in primaries. So basically trying

22:32

to stop the party from trying

22:34

to save the Republican primary voter

22:36

from from themselves -- Yeah. -- which they've been trying

22:38

to do to cut the reason this is a for Trump

22:40

y Wackers. Yeah. give

22:42

the Freedom caucus members more power on

22:45

committees. Use the debt ceiling as a hostage, which they

22:47

wanna do anyhow. And go ham on

22:49

investigation to the Biden administration, basically,

22:51

which again every Republican wants to do

22:53

any house. It really is the the

22:55

more positions on key committees, like the

22:57

Rules Committee and More ChairJobs is a big one

22:59

in Pause. And the biggest one, which

23:01

is basically a little ejector

23:03

seat for Kevin

23:05

McCarthy. Basically, this group of

23:07

Republicans is saying to Kevin McCarthy,

23:09

well well, let you be speaker. we're

23:11

gonna have your little gavel in a vise.

23:13

Well and, like, all the shit that McCarthy

23:15

is just gonna roll roll by fast.

23:17

You can roll roll right fast that. It's

23:19

just I'm talking about There's a real time a little gabalin

23:22

advice. Yeah. I I get I I get the

23:24

reference. Kevin's gabalin advice. Yeah. Yeah. That was a

23:26

title, perhaps. Kevin's Olivia

23:29

is nodding. I

23:32

I think that

23:34

demand and the debt ceiling demand

23:36

are the two most consequential demands. The first

23:39

one means that all the shit that

23:41

Kevin McCarthy is doing right now to get the

23:43

votes that he needs, not to

23:45

anything about Marjorie Taylor. All this bullshit,

23:47

he's gonna be doing that in in

23:49

perpetuity if they if they vacate

23:51

him. At any time, any any member

23:53

can call for a vote. and he's having a remember

23:55

call for it. So, like, once he

23:57

he'll never really have the job -- Never sleeping again.

23:59

-- always trying out for the job. He'll

24:01

never sleep again. It's no contract. I cannot

24:04

contract. It's data. It's week to week. He just

24:06

cannot give into that. That that I

24:08

imagine there'll be some compromise there

24:10

where they can call AAAAAA

24:13

motion to vacate, but, like, you're gonna need

24:15

x percentage of the caucus to do. So you

24:17

just can't have any wacko in the

24:19

caucus. No. I mean, if well, say,

24:21

if they do, then the the

24:23

consensus speaker thing could actually

24:25

become a reality at some point. And

24:27

then the no debt ceiling increase until they get

24:29

spent unless they get spending cuts in a balance

24:31

budget quote quote balance budget in ten

24:33

years. That's not That's just setting it

24:35

up. I mean, I guess you could

24:37

say he agrees to that. There's a plan and then he

24:39

backs down Well, that's that's what well, I just think it's

24:41

like what like,

24:42

whatever that says, that's a policy pronouncement. If

24:44

he doesn't have the votes, he doesn't have the votes, he

24:46

could put up their version of a

24:49

debt ceiling

24:49

increase, which has all these cuts, it

24:52

doesn't pass. And then he says, it didn't pass. I did

24:54

what you asked me to do. Now, I'm gonna have to go

24:56

over to and get the votes

24:58

together. You know what happens if they get the

25:00

ejector seat button. You know, bring

25:02

a scalise. It happens to the sky through the

25:04

sunroof. You get

25:06

scalise. until This is this is speaker

25:08

Trump, pretty straightforward from here. It is going to

25:10

be chaos. That is the

25:12

only safe prediction that I have. I'm just it's

25:15

going to you know -- Yeah. -- we didn't we talked about this a little bit

25:17

with senator

25:18

Brian Katz later, and it's,

25:20

you know, clearly, like, he

25:23

is frustrated that they don't have the votes to fix

25:25

the debt ceiling once and for all.

25:27

But just

25:27

remember how fucking stupid it

25:29

is that we that that there aren't fifty

25:31

one Democratic votes to get rid a

25:33

dead ceiling to take the bullets out of this

25:36

gun that the worst people in congress are

25:38

using to threaten the eighth

25:40

worth people worse people in congress Chris. Yeah. And look, this is

25:42

I mean, the way this goes down,

25:44

is there probably a majority in the house

25:46

in this new house? to

25:48

wanna make sure that we lift the debt ceiling and don't

25:50

and don't hold the economy hostage for,

25:53

you know, massive cut. Yeah. Probably

25:55

like your Don Bacon's and a couple other

25:57

moderate Republicans. But Kevin

25:59

McCarthy's speaker,

25:59

or

25:59

whoever is the speaker, is gonna be

26:02

in control here. I mean, it's just going to

26:04

be chaos. This

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matched.

31:20

Let's talk about a huge pain in the ass

31:22

on the other side of the aisle here

31:25

in Cinema. who announced on

31:27

Friday that she has changed her party

31:29

affiliation to independent right

31:31

after I attempted fate on Thursday's pod by

31:33

saying that at least we won't have to talk about

31:35

Joe mentioning Kirsten Cinema for the

31:37

next two years. So much

31:39

for that. Cinema also said she

31:41

won't caucus with the Republicans which

31:43

means the Democrats will maintain their

31:45

majority and control of all

31:47

senate committees. Why don't you do it? Love

31:49

it. Why don't you do it? First of all, let's just That's

31:51

the most important point. By the way, she

31:53

will caucus with the democrats, which means

31:56

but for the fact that we know how much

31:58

of a pain in the ass She has been

32:00

on policy. On paper,

32:02

she is she is

32:04

doing what Angus King and Bernie Sanders

32:06

are doing is just that she is doing in a way that will

32:08

make it harder us to pass our

32:10

agenda. She did because she can't win a primary in twenty twenty four.

32:12

She's made

32:13

herself toxic to too many Democratic

32:15

voters because of how she

32:18

try to

32:21

stymied Joe Biden's agenda. So

32:23

the options were face a brutal,

32:25

brutal Democratic primary. She

32:28

was probably gonna lose or basically

32:30

kind of go full

32:32

go full Maverick in

32:34

her mind to clear herself in dependent

32:36

and what doing anyway, which is

32:39

sometimes going along with Democrats, sometimes

32:41

not, claiming to be an independent, claiming

32:44

to wanna work with both sides, whatever, kind of

32:46

getting to build her brand. So it's just

32:48

sort of in a lot of ways, it's just sort

32:50

of putting the right name on the way she's been

32:52

behaving for the last couple of years anyway. I just think

32:54

that's

32:54

such a cynical view of the situation. Mhmm.

32:56

You tell me what I mean, she you you

32:58

explained it, but I just wanna she gave a

33:01

quote you're right up to CNN,

33:03

and she said, I know this

33:05

is probably disappointing to folks, but

33:07

I'm actually not even thinking

33:09

about electoral politics or talking about that at

33:11

all right now? I mean, she is

33:14

so full of shit. Who's this? She she, like,

33:16

fancies herself the next John

33:18

McCain. Mhmm. If John McCain did something like

33:20

this, you know, you'd probably say, I

33:22

couldn't win a primary. So

33:24

I couldn't win a primary. So I I'm

33:26

doing this for, you know, it's like, you might not like it, but I'm just

33:28

gonna tell you, she is so full

33:30

of shit. Yes. She's

33:32

so full of shit. She has but you're right.

33:35

She has horrible approval

33:37

rating among Democrats. She's

33:39

underwater by a lot. She's at, like, thirty

33:41

four, thirty five percent among Democrats has

33:43

been for a year now.

33:45

she's got, like, a a decent approval rating

33:47

among independents and Republicans in Arizona.

33:50

Overall, her favorability rating

33:52

is still slightly underwater. it's

33:54

not like very popular in the state. It really is

33:57

it's not even like it's the best it's

33:59

the it's the only option she has

34:01

really because I think that

34:03

she would start as a significant underdog

34:05

in a in a primary? Yeah.

34:07

She just went from the underdog in her

34:09

own primary to putting

34:12

herself in a position to dare Democrats to risk the seat challenger.

34:14

And it's it's Let's talk about that

34:16

risk. Like, how how difficult

34:19

do you think it will be for a Democrat to win cinema

34:21

seat in twenty twenty four? I do think

34:23

you should just a a lot does

34:25

depend on how she votes and acts like -- Paves. --

34:27

Paves over the like, what she does over the

34:30

next two years.

34:32

Like, just where she decides to

34:34

draw her dumb lines in the sand, you

34:36

know, the last time it was

34:38

about taxing hedge funds and

34:40

corporations. So, like, who knows what

34:42

position she takes that are kind of enough of the

34:44

Democrats. So it really does depend on what she does

34:46

over the next two years and what she stands in

34:48

the way of. But if if

34:50

the status quo anti is what it is,

34:52

then it's really, really hard

34:54

because any Democrat that runs against

34:56

somebody who votes for Democratic judges

34:58

and voted for the Inflation

35:00

Reduction Act and voted for a host of really

35:02

important Democratic priorities is gonna

35:04

be someone who splits the anti Mag

35:06

vote. And it it's a very difficult position

35:08

for the Democratic party to be. And that

35:10

said, you do see Democrats saying, great. Now the

35:12

primary is

35:14

open. which is a little bit of a bluff, but it's very,

35:16

very

35:16

hard. And and the

35:18

reason why it's so difficult is

35:22

because of Arizona's

35:25

electorate. So these are these

35:27

are the voter registration statistics as

35:29

of November of twenty twos from the

35:31

Secretary of State website. thirty five

35:33

percent of voters identify as Republican or registered as Republican. Thirty

35:35

one percent are registered as

35:38

Democrats and

35:41

thirty four percent are registered

35:43

as other. So, you know, I saw

35:45

some people saying, oh, well, if all Democrats

35:47

stuck together in Arizona, if all Democratic

35:49

voters stuck together, and voted for

35:51

the Democratic candidate like would be okay, not true at

35:54

all. You'd need a significant

35:56

number of

35:58

the non affiliated voters, independent voters. You probably need some Republicans.

36:00

That's certainly Mark Kelley

36:02

just won the seat with nine

36:05

ten percent of Republicans, and

36:08

he won independence by, like, I think

36:10

it was, like, fifty five to forty. It's a

36:12

significant margin.

36:14

So you need those independent Republican voters. Now, does that

36:16

mean a Democrat like a Mark Kelley or someone

36:18

like that couldn't capture a

36:21

significant number of independents and Republicans? No.

36:23

But you're right, she splits the vote

36:25

a little bit. If it's two of them going

36:27

for that because Republican voters

36:30

in Arizona And by the way, the in

36:32

continues to nominate the most

36:34

extreme candidates. It's not like they're

36:36

nominating Doug

36:38

Ducey anymore. Yeah. And they would and

36:40

if we are heading towards a Democrat versus

36:42

Kirsten cinema versus Republican, you'll be damn sure

36:44

they're gonna nominate whoever the fuck they want, because they'll

36:46

be pretty sure that person's gonna be a senator. And, like,

36:48

you know, Cary Lake got something like ninety one, ninety

36:51

two percent of Republican voters, Blake

36:54

Masters, like, probably the the

36:56

least popular candidate in Arizona in a

36:58

long, long time. He'd be a senator. He got, like,

37:00

eighty nine, ninety percent of Republic. He would

37:02

in this he would he would have won a three way

37:05

race. So if you get some of the Republican

37:07

candidate getting eighty nine ninety percent of

37:09

the Republican vote and then you have two other

37:11

candidates splitting Democrat and independent vote. That's really tough. It's really

37:13

tough. And the numbers I just said were the

37:15

voter registration statistics.

37:18

In the midterm, in terms of who came out to vote in twenty twenty two, the

37:20

midterms in Arizona were twenty seven percent

37:23

Democratic, thirty three percent Republican.

37:26

and forty percent independent. That is And by the way, like, let

37:29

let's not talk about this as if the Democrats

37:31

are spoiler alert. And that scenario,

37:34

spoiler is a person named Kirsten cinema. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And as we've seen,

37:36

no one is a better team player

37:38

than Kirsten cinema. Imagine all of

37:40

us sitting around the table trying to figure out

37:43

how to convince Kirsten Cinema to drop out of the race because she's

37:45

drawing thirteen percent against Ruben Gallego -- Right. -- and

37:48

costing us the Senate seat. Like, there are some, like,

37:50

ugly fucking

37:52

terrible outcomes. and that's

37:54

why it's a very, very fresh it was a very

37:56

frustrating weekend. And look, I don't I

37:58

mean, Ruben Gaye goes out there saying, but

38:00

I think he should be saying, which is like, I'm not

38:02

gonna make my decision based on Of course, her threat or her bluff

38:04

or whatever the hell she's trying to do. I'm

38:06

gonna make it based on what I think

38:08

is right. It's

38:10

also interesting that he is already focusing in his statements and the Arizona Democrats

38:12

did this as well. They're focusing

38:14

their statements like not on

38:17

her betraying the party, for

38:20

Republicans or for whatever, but

38:22

her betraying the people who elected

38:24

her by, you know, voting with

38:26

wealthy donors.

38:28

Right? helped the killed carried interest for the hedge fund's

38:30

assholes. She made the

38:32

prescription drug

38:34

provision weaker for the drug

38:36

companies. Right? Because as much

38:38

as we are frustrated

38:40

by her kind of bullshit rhetoric around

38:42

how work of any money and, you know, I'm just looking out

38:44

for whatever. I don't believe in either party. A good idea

38:46

can come from anywhere. All this stuff people say,

38:49

it's a really good message. it really

38:51

appeals to people. I'll work with anybody. We gotta turn down the temperature. I'm

38:53

independent. I do what's best for Arizona. Like,

38:55

these things do well. Yeah.

38:57

And just annoying because it's all vibes. Right? Like, she

39:00

came out and said, look, here's here's

39:02

three issues where I just I'm

39:04

totally different from

39:06

my party. just don't just don't believe them. And then here's the issues where I align with

39:08

Republicans. Here's where I align with Democrats. And I

39:10

just I have no. It it was not

39:12

about issues. it

39:14

was no substance than any of her announcement. It was all just

39:16

All vibes. And by the way, like, the

39:18

way in which she, like,

39:19

stood in the

39:22

way of build back

39:22

better was around, like, a, like,

39:25

a a few tax issues, which

39:27

are extremely popular. rich

39:30

people shit. real like, just her refusal to raise taxes and the biggest

39:32

corporations and the richest people in her state. Like, she

39:34

took extremely unpopular position

39:36

positions, especially unpopular

39:38

with independents. to stymie

39:40

some of the Democratic proposals.

39:42

Yeah. But again, next two years,

39:44

she's still gonna be the same pain in the

39:46

ass she was for the last two years. Yeah.

39:48

at least when in terms of governing, we'll, you know, we'll figure that one get to

39:50

twenty five four. Hey, at least. Listen, we still increased our

39:53

majority by one. Yeah. So now we don't need both

39:55

management and cinema every time. Yeah.

39:58

And, you know, in terms of how she'll behave over the next two years and which

40:00

how she'll vote, the other issue here is, like,

40:02

there's not gonna be a ton of legislation over

40:05

two years. It's gonna be conforming judges and

40:08

administration officials. That's gonna be mainly And

40:10

then and post and then whatever happens with the debt

40:12

sale. And whatever happens And whatever happens with the dead sailing.

40:14

Who knows? Who knows? Alright. We will talk

40:16

about the dead sailing and more with our next

40:18

guest, senator Brian shots. right

40:22

after this. Pod

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44:22

On the

44:24

pod today Hawaii

44:26

senator Brian shots.

44:28

Welcome back to the pod.

44:31

Great to be here. Nice to see

44:33

you

44:33

both. Shot. Shot. Shot.

44:34

Yeah. We were You said the dude we were gonna

44:36

do. I don't know. I thought someone was gonna do that. We have a we

44:38

have a whole staff. We're gonna we're

44:40

gonna play that that song. Can't you

44:42

do that in post as they say? We know what

44:44

we can do that in post. Thanks for letting us

44:46

know that. We that's weird. I doing

44:48

podcast company. We'll do it in post. Alright. There's a lot on Congress's plate between

44:51

now and the end of the year, not much

44:53

time. What are you pushing hardest to

44:55

get done? What can you

44:58

live without? Okay. Well, let me start with look,

45:00

we need none of the spending package

45:02

because, you know, I I don't

45:04

wanna

45:04

immediately jump in to jump

45:07

Kevin McCarthy's travails, but he's gonna

45:09

have a tremendously difficult time

45:12

passing any budget. So whatever

45:14

budget we pass, is likely

45:16

to be the budget for the next two years.

45:18

And so while we still have a

45:20

democratic control of both chambers, it's really important

45:22

to move forward with the omnibus spending

45:24

package in the next two weeks. And

45:26

then for me, I'm working on making sure that

45:28

a number of bills for

45:30

Indian tribes, Alaska natives and

45:32

Native Hawaiians pass as part of

45:34

that package. Is

45:35

the electoral account reform act gonna get done? I think so, but we're

45:37

sort of like

45:37

it it all depends on

45:40

whether or not we have a big bill. If we don't have a

45:42

big bill, then none

45:44

of these other things are gonna pass. And I like the electoral calendar

45:46

act and I've sort of had some internal

45:48

disagreements with some of my colleagues about

45:50

it because It's good. It's

45:52

fine. But you can't

45:54

outlaw Insurrection. Insurrection is

45:56

already illegal. And so I really

45:58

do worry

46:00

that, especially for Republicans, but even

46:02

Democrats, they wanna assert you know, when all you have is

46:04

a hammer, everything feels like a nail. Everything

46:06

looks like a nail. so I do feel like

46:08

everyone's thinking, wow, that was really terrible. We

46:10

should make a law against it.

46:12

And my own view

46:14

is that they're gonna have

46:16

better white shoe law

46:18

firms. They're gonna be very clever

46:20

about it. And there is I don't know how

46:22

successful they will be, and I don't know how big the movement

46:24

will be. But the people who want to

46:26

overthrow the government are going to try to do it in a way that has the veneer

46:28

of lawfulness. So the electoral

46:30

count act doesn't really push

46:33

back against that. So let's get that done, but

46:35

let's stay vigilant because insurrectionists are

46:38

gonna do what they're gonna do. Yeah. I mean,

46:39

look, that's something we've talked about. on

46:41

this part of a fair amount, which is,

46:43

yeah, pass the laws to do what you can to

46:45

strengthen the system, but understand that is about power.

46:48

Like, when you say stay vigilant, you know,

46:50

they will bend the laws, however, they wish. They've already been

46:52

doing that. Right? They already I mean, the fact that even

46:54

we're having this conversation is because they made up something

46:56

about what the vice president can do.

46:58

What does staying vigilant mean to you? Well, I

47:00

just think the the I mean, first of all,

47:01

I think it was the the most important thing that

47:03

happened was in the was in the

47:05

midterm elections when election

47:08

denialism, insurrectionism proved

47:10

to be unpopular. Right? Because there's

47:13

no amount of shaming of the other

47:15

side that actually is gonna do

47:17

the trick What figure out is that this is

47:19

a loser. And it's proven to be a loser for

47:21

them. And so that to me was the

47:23

most important thing. But to the

47:25

extent that anybody puts their name on the ballot

47:27

in twenty twenty four, for the US Senate

47:30

for Secretary of State for the legislature

47:32

or for president, that should be

47:34

immediately disqualifying and not just like one

47:36

of the considerations. Right? It

47:38

is the one thing you can't

47:40

do is vote for someone who says, well, if

47:42

I don't win, then it's probably rigged

47:44

and we're gonna have to take other

47:46

measures. That's not okay and we

47:48

have to stay vigilant on that level. And I think

47:50

there's just a lot of people on Twitter who

47:52

like to sort of school people who

47:54

worry about democracy because

47:56

it it allows them to feel like they're clever

47:58

and they're really in touch with what people

47:59

really think

48:02

I think that proved to be bullshit. People

48:04

actually care about insurrectionism. They don't want American style

48:06

democracy to be destroyed whatever their view

48:08

is of tax rates or whatever.

48:12

Do

48:12

you think Republicans have learned

48:15

any lessons from their losses

48:17

in this midterm from the fact that election's

48:19

denialism was a loser We

48:21

got, you know, Trump's dining with the

48:24

Nazi and, you know,

48:26

a lot of your Republican colleagues in

48:28

the Senate, you know, there were some

48:31

there was some chiding of him, but

48:33

there wasn't any, like like, no one

48:35

was ruling out voting for him or supporting

48:37

him for president except I think Mitt

48:39

Romney Taylor Green over the weekend saying, like,

48:42

if me and Steve Bannon had

48:44

planned the insurrection and it would have

48:46

been successful Now we're gonna have another

48:48

round of Republicans trying to

48:50

dodge these questions from

48:52

reporters. Like, what what do they learn

48:54

any lessons? Have you have you have you seen this

48:56

and at least from your perspective with your colleagues. Oh, I'm be cautious not to

48:59

characterize it

48:59

as, you know, people learning lessons. Right?

49:01

But I will say

49:04

that increasingly some of my Republican colleagues just feel like Donald Trump

49:06

is not good for them, and they're not afraid

49:08

to say it. And that is

49:12

a is a directional change from everything I've seen before.

49:14

They feel that they can win a primary

49:16

as incumbent United States senators.

49:20

and still be considered conservatives in good standing

49:22

and just sort of observe that, hey, we've

49:24

kinda gotten our ass kicked over the last

49:26

several cycles and maybe it's time

49:28

to move on. So I know if it's internalizing a lesson

49:31

so much as reading how the

49:33

public responded. And that's where

49:35

I think the

49:38

activism and the success of the midterms,

49:40

you know, can't be overstated because it

49:42

was the voters that sent the right

49:46

message to the Republicans who wanna stay in office that this isn't

49:48

good for business anymore. So

49:50

let's

49:51

talk about Democrats for

49:54

a second. You know, you mentioned the omnibus. You didn't mention

49:56

the debt ceiling. Is have management

49:58

cinema just made that impossible? Oh, well,

50:00

former

50:02

Democrats Had mentioned in Cinema made that impossible? What happened

50:04

with that feeling?

50:04

I don't think it's necessarily mentioned in

50:06

Cinema, and I'm not given up.

50:08

I have a bill there's lots of, like, clever ways to do this

50:10

where you sort of, you know, make it subject

50:13

to congressional disapproval. And my my

50:15

bill is even simpler than that. It just

50:17

appeals the goddamn thing. It's stupid.

50:20

Yeah. And and is dangerous to the

50:22

country. But if I had to guess, I

50:24

don't think we're getting sixty votes on

50:26

an omnibus bill that includes the repeal of

50:28

the debt ceiling or even some sort of

50:31

more convoluted way to to land there.

50:33

So I'm gonna keep pushing, but, you know,

50:35

I think it's important that

50:37

your listeners hear what's actually happening and not just what we wish would

50:39

happen. And over the next two weeks, likelihood of

50:42

getting debt ceiling into a bill is,

50:44

you know, not zero, but not super high.

50:46

We have cut a high degree of

50:48

difficulty over the next two to three weeks just

50:50

to get our work done.

50:52

And and yes, it is true

50:54

that this leaves a ticking

50:56

time bomb you know, for next

50:58

country. So I'm not happy about that, but

51:00

that is the state of play. But this is what I

51:02

can't understand. It's like, what

51:03

obviously, you could

51:06

attach it to a budget reconciliation bill. I realize that that takes

51:08

a lot of time and is very complicated. But

51:10

I feel like I feel like

51:14

if every Senate Democrat

51:16

felt like you that we have this ticking time

51:18

bomb, but now we're gonna trust Kevin McCarthy

51:20

and his gang of Yahoo's to

51:22

diffuse next year, we might as well, like, figure out how

51:24

to do this now while we still can if we

51:26

could do it with fifty one votes.

51:30

Yeah. I mean, I so so I haven't done the whip count on

51:32

what would what would happen in reconciliation.

51:34

I will say reconciliation takes two weeks

51:37

and we have to get an omnibus and a defense bill

51:39

done in the next two weeks. So, like,

51:41

logistically -- Yeah. -- it's gonna be hard.

51:43

But I guess

51:44

my my view is

51:46

we we should be very clear eyed about the consequences

51:48

of not

51:50

fulfilling our obligations, not

51:54

standing by the full faith and credit of the United

51:56

States, but we should not run

51:58

around scared

51:59

of the Republicans

52:01

on the debt ceiling my

52:03

view on debt ceiling since I got to

52:05

the Senate now just over ten

52:08

years ago is, in exchange

52:10

for lifting the debt limit, you

52:12

get nothing. And I I think you you guys

52:14

learned and, you know, not to bring up old

52:16

shit, but but have you guys

52:18

heard that with

52:20

when you negotiated over the debt ceiling

52:22

was was something called sequestration,

52:24

which were these stupid draconian

52:28

mindless cuts to domestic discretionary spending, and

52:30

everybody hated it until we finally

52:32

repealed it. And so after

52:34

that, after that obama Obama

52:36

and then even Trump and certainly Schumer and Pelosi

52:38

and now Biden ought to have the view,

52:41

you get nothing for

52:43

lifting the debt ceiling. That's what you get. And

52:45

you can make all the noise you want and all of

52:47

the politicals and the Axiosis and the hills

52:50

and and the Washington Post will come to me and put microphone

52:52

in my face and say, hey, but aren't you

52:54

scared about the global economy? And I will

52:56

say, yes. But I am more scared

52:59

I am more scared of allowing these people

53:01

to do this to us

53:04

episodically whatever they want

53:06

to extract crazy concessions and hold the whole

53:08

country hostage. In the last, I

53:10

guess, probably six times that we've gone

53:12

through this, and our position

53:14

has been you get nothing for

53:16

this. They have got nothing for this.

53:18

It's always very scary and it's

53:20

like making my palm sweat, just thinking

53:22

about it. Nothing. But, yeah, but you're already pitching you're

53:24

so

53:24

look, just what just happened to

53:26

me at this and this table is you

53:29

just pitch forward you just you just

53:31

the have when we don't do it right now.

53:34

You're just already having that conversation. We're on to

53:36

the next

53:38

thing. But the the so you just think

53:40

we're gonna have another situation where the Republicans are gonna put a gun to

53:42

their own head and threaten to shoot. That's

53:44

what's happening next year. next

53:47

year I think that's

53:48

gonna happen, like, every six weeks. Yeah.

53:50

It's not it's not great.

53:52

But I get I get you get

53:54

nothing is the Yeah. We don't I know why that

53:56

needs to be the position. because otherwise,

53:58

they don't know the votes. I

54:00

know they don't know the votes. But, like, there are

54:02

we have a majority. They they just do

54:04

they not hear this argument? What is the argument you're hearing back about why not to

54:07

do this right now? They're afraid of the ads in

54:09

two years. Like, I don't understand. There is

54:11

a it is a it

54:13

is so fucking stupid. Why aren't

54:15

we fixing this? Why why aren't there fifty

54:17

votes to

54:19

fix this? I can't tell you why there aren't fifty votes.

54:21

I'm just in the business of counting, and I don't think we

54:24

have the votes to do that right now.

54:26

Yeah. Yeah. Kirsten

54:28

Cinema. How are you feeling about the party switch?

54:30

You know, neutral. Right? Like,

54:32

I think Murf said it exactly right the

54:34

other day, which is, like, not that much changes.

54:38

She has been very explicit that she's not going

54:40

to interfere with the subpoena authority

54:42

or the ability for the majority to

54:44

be the majority. Right? We're not going to be

54:47

in the old power sharing arrangement as if it were

54:49

fifty fifty. And my view is, like, Kirsten

54:51

votes how she wants to vote. She behaves. How she

54:53

wants to behave. And that's not gonna change very

54:56

much because all this does is,

54:58

like, commemorates her actual

55:00

political position, which is that

55:02

she is she leans left

55:04

on some issues and right on some issues, and

55:07

she keeps her own counsel

55:09

and sometimes works with us and sometimes

55:11

doesn't. Howard Bauchner: You

55:12

think the you think the DSCC should

55:14

recruit a candidate for Arizona in twenty twenty four? I don't you

55:17

listen, oh, wow. That was a hard

55:19

one. We talked about it beforehand. We tried to come up

55:21

with the hardest one.

55:24

Yeah. Look, I think the Democratic senate

55:27

campaign committee has an

55:29

obligation

55:29

to elect Democrats. the

55:33

But it is a little different when you're

55:35

talking about, say Angus King, who's an

55:37

independent who caucuses with the Democrats.

55:39

You know, we don't support a Democrat

55:41

to run against Angus King. So I think part of what has to happen

55:43

over the next six to twelve months is to figure out

55:46

where Kirsten's head is at, where the

55:48

Democratic Party of Arizona's head is

55:50

at, and

55:52

sort of have a, you know, a respectful discussion

55:54

and negotiation. That's above

55:56

my pay grade, but, you know, I get along very

55:58

well with

56:00

Kirsten. believe it or not. We work together on a number of things.

56:02

And so, you know, I'm hoping this lands

56:04

well. Everybody's

56:05

been so nice.

56:06

I mean, yeah. What are

56:08

you gonna what's you gonna do? I don't know. Yeah.

56:10

On Twitter. You have a new

56:12

gig as as deputy conference

56:16

secretary. What's what's that all about? Well, I think it's the job there.

56:18

Look, I think Chuck

56:20

Schumer and I have

56:22

had conversations over the last two

56:24

or three weeks about how I can just be more helpful.

56:26

And really what that means is I'm in the sort

56:28

of official leadership, which has a Monday meeting

56:30

where they kind of set the course for

56:34

the for the week.

56:35

I my buddy back home was

56:37

not in politics texting me. I said, what does

56:39

this mean? I said, think of me as a

56:41

very low ranking person in the room where it happens. Last

56:44

year, I as deputy

56:47

chief deputy WIP, I was like

56:49

junior varsity leadership, and now I'm on the

56:51

VARSE, but not a starter. Do you think it's

56:53

gonna be a problem culturally that you don't remember the Bay

56:56

of Pigs? Like, personally.

56:58

Yeah. Yeah. But you don't

57:00

remember you don't remember unfolding. I mean, like,

57:03

I hope it works. It's

57:06

like That's super clear. Corey Booker is in the leadership

57:08

anyway. Yes. Yes. You and Corey Booker, neither

57:10

one. I'm not claiming that Corey Booker

57:12

remembers the Bay of Pics. Here's

57:14

a policy question. You're one of the biggest

57:16

climate hawks in congress. What do you make of this

57:18

news that the Department of Energy plans to announce that

57:21

they've made a fusion energy break through

57:23

that could create zero carbon power. Yeah. It's

57:26

a huge

57:26

deal. It's a big technological breakthrough,

57:28

but remember there are a

57:31

lot of ready to go

57:33

technologies. So and the question is

57:35

deployment. This is a big tech

57:38

technical breakthrough it's unclear what it will mean for energy markets over

57:40

the next ten to twenty years. And I do

57:42

worry that, like, just because climate change

57:44

is so

57:46

terrifying, there's a little bit of moral

57:48

hazard of kind of, like, you know, hitching your wagon to whatever the latest technological

57:50

breakthrough is and say, well, great.

57:54

That way, we don't have to make any of the investments or

57:56

transitions that we were fearing, and

57:58

there's this new magical energy source. The

58:00

truth is there's an old magical energy

58:04

source called call the sun. And then -- Oh. -- and and and we

58:06

still have wind energy, both of which are

58:08

now coming in cheaper than

58:10

coal. And in some instances, natural

58:12

gas. So I just want us

58:14

to be excited about this

58:16

technological development, but understand that

58:18

there's no silver bullet on the

58:20

climate side. there's just a lot of

58:22

things that we have to do at once.

58:24

And this is one of the

58:26

incredible opportunities in front of us. We

58:28

should think of it that way. but as a

58:30

part of a strategy, not as a something that

58:32

obviates the need to take other

58:34

actions. Makes

58:34

sense. Here here's something I know

58:37

you might have some thoughts on. New

58:39

York Times headline. Critics say Musk

58:40

has revealed himself as a conservative. It's

58:42

not so simple. Yeah. I

58:46

mean, look, Well, lots of CEOs. Most CEOs

58:48

are conservative. So, like, that that doesn't bother

58:50

me on his face, and I'm not gonna get

58:52

into the platform itself. But I just

58:54

do think really

58:56

smart people who work for The New York Times are

58:59

intentionally obtuse, are intentionally

59:01

hazy and hazy with

59:03

their language. And I know Lovett's talked about

59:06

this for a long time that

59:08

somehow that is

59:10

sort of a substitute for being actually savvy or real

59:12

analysis that their favorite

59:14

thing to say is, well, it's not

59:16

quite as simple as all those people on the

59:18

Internet say.

59:20

And it's sort of like, you have to work so goddamn hard to

59:22

to read all these tweets and look at all

59:24

this behavior and think, well, it's really

59:28

possible to decipher his his politics.

59:30

And like I said, I don't really care about

59:32

this except that you still have

59:34

the most powerful media platform

59:37

mainstream platform on the planet being

59:40

intentionally dumb about things, and that's

59:42

a little maddening, especially

59:44

given its history and our history

59:46

over the last seven years. It's pretty pretty

59:48

frustrating because Elon Musk has now tweeted,

59:50

like, prosecute Fauci, vote

59:52

to scientists, vote Republicans, the

59:55

woke virus, destroy humanity, and it's like,

59:57

we're but but what does it

59:59

mean?

59:59

You know, speaking

1:00:02

of Twitter, reports that basically the

1:00:04

White House's view on Twitter is

1:00:06

that it really just has kinda two

1:00:08

functions. One is

1:00:10

to influence elite

1:00:12

opinion and elite journalist. And the other

1:00:14

is to convince progressives

1:00:17

on Twitter to believe those people. Two

1:00:19

important and valuable uses in our society.

1:00:21

And so they're not seeing they're not kind of

1:00:23

they're not they're not hooked on

1:00:26

to the Elan is

1:00:27

a national emergency

1:00:30

train. Where where are you at on this? I

1:00:32

don't think it's a national emergency. I think

1:00:34

there are there are you know, for instance,

1:00:36

Rocana's email. I got asked by a

1:00:38

reporter. What do you think about Rocana's email being

1:00:40

disclosed? And I thought, well, look, if if a

1:00:42

congressman is emailing

1:00:44

a company, that congressman does not actually have a reasonable expectation of

1:00:46

privacy. I think the threshold

1:00:48

would Rubicon would be

1:00:50

would be would be

1:00:52

crossed if a a member's

1:00:54

DMs were were

1:00:56

disclosed -- Mhmm. -- and those were

1:00:58

to the company. Right? But an official correspondence from a member of congress to

1:01:01

a company is, like, to me,

1:01:03

that's reasonably fair game. question

1:01:06

becomes when Musk feels, you

1:01:08

know, under siege, does he then

1:01:10

weaponize the data that he's in possession of? I

1:01:12

don't know the answer to that, but I

1:01:15

wanna be very, very precise with our language

1:01:17

because in case that ever does happen, I

1:01:19

don't wanna have cried wolf just because a

1:01:22

congressman wrote a letter to a company. I mean,

1:01:24

if I write a letter to but I

1:01:26

fully expect that that's gonna be, you know,

1:01:28

public communication. But you're

1:01:30

sticking around on Twitter still. You're

1:01:32

you're staying Yeah. I know you're I'm

1:01:34

not trying to advertise for the platform, but

1:01:36

my own personal user experience

1:01:38

has not changed hardly at

1:01:40

all except that the main topic on Twitter seems to be its owner,

1:01:42

which is a little bit older, but

1:01:44

something that I I feel like over time will work

1:01:46

itself out.

1:01:48

It is brutal. Are you not are you

1:01:50

not tuning on Mastodon? By the way, I'm too

1:01:52

stupid to to figure out Mastodon. I got

1:01:54

it. That's how I feel. I just

1:01:57

I don't know how to do this. I don't know what

1:01:59

people people talked about post, but I'm just like,

1:02:01

I'm lazy to set up myself on

1:02:04

another platform.

1:02:05

That's how I feel.

1:02:06

What do you think when an office has massive Christmas

1:02:08

decorations, including a huge tree, and then there's

1:02:10

just like one tiny shitty little manor

1:02:12

off to the side? I think

1:02:14

it's antisemitic. I do. Okay. Thank

1:02:16

you. I should say at this

1:02:18

point that in our office, there

1:02:20

is a menorah that is so

1:02:22

large there's like a a machine that's like

1:02:25

keeping it inflated. Yep. That makes noise down

1:02:27

the hall. So it's very we have a very large

1:02:29

So now John's worried about a big Jewish machine Interesting.

1:02:32

Interesting. See, this is

1:02:34

how it happens. I just wanted everyone to be clear that that's

1:02:36

not our office. He's talking about You don't need a Balenciaga

1:02:38

jacket and a ski mask. alright, to be part of

1:02:40

the problem. I did not see that coming,

1:02:44

John. Last question.

1:02:46

I saw on on speaking of Twitter. I

1:02:48

saw on Twitter you you tweeted that you're

1:02:50

gonna look into these fucking scam texts

1:02:52

that we all keep getting. Are you are

1:02:55

you looking

1:02:55

into this? What's going on

1:02:57

there? Actually, I tweeted it and then I was just like,

1:02:59

I didn't text my legislative staff to

1:03:01

see who would follow-up, who would tweet

1:03:03

and makes the things that I tweet

1:03:06

truth. I did get a couple of texts

1:03:08

from my staff. But apparently, the FCC

1:03:10

actually has already started the

1:03:12

rulemaking process process on its own text. So I'm gonna

1:03:14

follow-up with Jessica Rosenworsel,

1:03:16

who's the chair of the FCC, who is

1:03:18

only there because we have a

1:03:20

Democratic senate and who is

1:03:22

working on a rule to crack down

1:03:24

on these things. That is fantastic. That

1:03:25

might be one of the most popular things

1:03:27

the government does in a while.

1:03:29

Yeah. It's great. It's cool. Brian shots.

1:03:31

It's wonderful as always to have you on Pod

1:03:33

Save America. Great to see you, guys. Thanks

1:03:36

for the pod Save America. and we're

1:03:38

saying Merry Christmas again. We're

1:03:41

we're obviously. Take

1:03:43

care. See you guys.

1:03:44

Thanks to Brian

1:03:47

Church for joining us today, and

1:03:49

we'll talk to you

1:03:52

later. Thanks, senator shots. Shot. Shot. This

1:03:54

is where we play it. Yeah. Play it right now. Should

1:03:56

I tell the people that

1:03:58

I'm getting rid of

1:03:59

my Tesla? I

1:04:02

can't do it anymore.

1:04:08

Pod Save

1:04:08

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1:04:10

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1:04:13

producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein. Our

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