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0:46

Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm

0:48

Jon Favreau.

0:51

I'm Alex Wagner. I'm

0:54

Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy

0:56

Vitor. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. We

1:02

have a fantastic show for you tonight. We

1:04

got the host of Alex Wagner tonight on MSNBC,

1:07

Alex Wagner.

1:10

We got New York Attorney General Tish

1:12

James. The

1:16

Daily Show's Roy Wood Jr. And

1:21

someone who I imagine might have

1:23

something to say about the news of the day, Hillary

1:25

Clinton is here. All

1:35

right, let's jump right in. You guys want to talk about the death

1:37

ceiling? No, not the

1:39

death ceiling. Donald Trump

1:41

is taking his talent for crime to South Beach

1:43

on Tuesday, where he'll be arraigned in Miami

1:47

on 37 felony counts related

1:49

to stealing America's nuclear secrets and war

1:51

plans, leaving these secrets scattered around

1:53

his beach club, showing them off to random

1:55

strangers, hiding them from the FBI,

1:58

and then lying about it.

1:59

In the unsealed

2:02

and incredibly detailed indictment,

2:05

special counsel Jack Smith will try to

2:07

prove Trump's guilt with evidence that includes

2:09

video surveillance footage, testimony

2:12

and written notes from Trump's own employees and

2:14

lawyers,

2:15

and of course, audio recordings from

2:17

Trump himself. If convicted,

2:20

the twice-impeached, twice-indicted 76-year-old

2:23

criminal defendant could serve

2:25

the rest of his life in prison, or... All

2:29

right, all right, all

2:31

right, that's never what it was about. Or

2:35

he could be the next president of the United States. Either

2:38

way, what a country. Both

2:40

sides, journalism. That's where we

2:42

are. Alex,

2:45

so you were our very first guest

2:47

at our very first POD Save America Live

2:49

show right here in New York City.

2:51

You're welcome. Yes. I

2:54

think I was the one that really kicked it all off. It

2:56

was you and Bill de Blasio. I'll

2:59

leave that one right there. So

3:03

I went back to look at the headlines from that day.

3:06

Here are the headlines. Trump turns Mar-a-Lago

3:09

terrorists into an open-air situation room. Mar-a-Lago

3:12

guest takes picture with nuclear football.

3:15

And Trump ran a campaign based on intelligence

3:17

security. That's not how he's governing. So

3:21

time is a flat circle.

3:23

Knowing that the behavior he's been charged with

3:26

isn't exactly out of character. What,

3:28

if anything, surprised you about

3:31

this indictment as especially

3:33

damning for Trump? Where to begin,

3:35

John? I

3:38

think there are probably a few things. It's really

3:40

hard to pick one thing. Number

3:43

one, storing classified

3:45

documents, including war secrets and

3:48

nuclear details on nuclear programs,

3:50

next to a toilet. It's

3:53

just never a good visual. And

3:58

it's not a good look.

3:59

That I mean it's a good place if you want

4:02

to you're need some light reading Yeah, I

4:04

mean that's where sports like old

4:06

issues of like Sports Illustrated and Mad

4:08

Magazine go not like the Iran Nuclear

4:11

attack plans and I don't I mean I remember

4:13

getting the hard copy of the New York Times this weekend and you

4:15

just you just Have to show that photo

4:17

and it's almost kind of a say enough

4:20

said moment But the other part

4:23

of it that I found particularly galling was the

4:25

fact that I don't think enough attention has been paid

4:27

to this Trump got

4:29

a Navy man Walt Nauta

4:32

Who is you know not someone

4:34

who's part of this world in terms of like

4:37

the executive concerns of the president of the United

4:39

States? He's very much someone who is Trump's

4:41

body man. He's responsible for the Diet Cokes He's

4:43

responsible for packing the luggage and he

4:46

used a career service person to do the dirty

4:48

work Yeah, and yes, Walt Nauta lied

4:50

to federal investigators But I tend to think of him

4:53

as in some ways almost a lamb

4:55

that's being led to the slaughterhouse And I think it's completely

4:57

unconscionable that Trump knew that he was doing

4:59

something wrong and enlisted This person who

5:01

has nothing to do with any of this to be his co-conspirator

5:04

in obstruction of justice For example, that seems

5:07

particularly egregious and then finally we can't

5:09

lose sight of this

5:11

The fact that he is Fundraising

5:14

at this moment off of a smear

5:16

campaign Against the federal

5:18

government that he seeks to once again lead

5:20

that is bunkers

5:23

and the big picture of that that this man

5:25

is running for president as he seeks to impugn

5:28

the US government and

5:30

Fundraise off of it

5:32

is so Craven

5:34

and so I think morally wrong That

5:37

should be focused on I think as we talk about all the other sins

5:40

that have been committed and you know I didn't

5:41

even think about the fundraising.

5:43

I mean, there's so many levels to the wrongdoing that

5:45

it's hard to pick just one Anyone else

5:47

have any moments in the

5:49

indictment they found particularly shocking

5:52

incriminating

5:54

hilarious And then

5:56

we can stipulate that none of it was shocking The

6:00

one thing I will say you're reminded

6:02

of, and it isn't shocking, but it is, I think,

6:05

bracing to see and print is just

6:08

what a shambolic, small-time,

6:11

two-bit fucking criminal this guy is. The

6:14

stakes are so high. And

6:17

he's got his aide running

6:20

around Mar-a-Lago with boxes trying to stay one

6:22

step ahead of his own lawyers, doors

6:24

opening and closing like a Benny Hill movie.

6:29

I also think that it's the perfect Trump crime. Everyone was

6:31

like, what's the motive? Was he trying to sell

6:33

secrets? Was it financial?

6:36

Was it this? No, he was trying

6:38

to win a pissing match with one of his

6:40

former people who served in his administration in the press, a pissing

6:42

match in the press. That's what he wanted

6:44

to win. Yeah, 100% ego just trying

6:45

to impugn the reputation of

6:48

the former Joint Chiefs of Staff, Mark Milley. There's one place in

6:50

which, I have to say, I'm sympathetic

6:53

to Donald Trump, and it is this. He would rather

6:55

go to jail than clean out his closet. And

6:59

I think that that's cool. Because he

7:01

was one boring Sunday away from

7:04

going through all of his old shit. And we all

7:07

have that closet. I

7:13

have to say, I was just shocked

7:16

that there are audio tapes. Not

7:19

like audio tapes. And this audio was not,

7:21

it's not like supporting evidence. It's

7:23

him saying, like, this is secret.

7:26

Look at it. I'm not supposed

7:28

to show you. I could have declassified it. I

7:30

didn't. Now I can't. Isn't that interesting?

7:33

Isn't that interesting? Now

7:35

we have a problem. Now we have a problem. They're all laughing.

7:38

And it's on audio tape. It's not great. Tommy,

7:40

you're the person up here most familiar with

7:43

the kind of highly classified information

7:45

that Trump stole. You've also

7:47

talked about how there's a legitimate debate

7:50

over whether our government overclassifies

7:52

information that doesn't really need to be that secret.

7:55

Based

7:55

on what we know from both

7:57

the indictment and reporting, how's that going to happen?

8:00

serious is what Trump did

8:02

from a national security perspective? I

8:05

think it's safe to say these were not over classified documents.

8:07

I think there's sort of two categories like what we know he

8:09

took and what maybe got out.

8:12

We know he took

8:13

secret war plans,

8:15

stuff about their nuclear program, information

8:19

to arrive from human intelligence, so CIA

8:21

spies or assets all over the world. We know

8:23

the president usually gets the best stuff. We

8:25

know that he showed off the secret

8:27

Iran war plan to some journalists.

8:30

We know that he bragged to a guy from

8:32

his pack about, we think it was

8:34

probably in a map of Afghanistan, a classified

8:37

map of Afghanistan, given the timing. And

8:39

we know that there was one box kind of splayed

8:42

out all over the floor

8:43

with classified stuff. So

8:45

those are the documents he took. It's

8:48

interesting to me though that DOJ

8:50

doesn't say in the indictment that they know they

8:52

got back everything yet. In

8:54

fact it sounds like

8:56

the secret Pentagon plan

8:58

to attack Iran is still missing, so

9:01

floating around out there somewhere. And

9:04

we know that DOJ has no idea if

9:06

many of the tens

9:08

of thousands of people who are traipsed through Mar-a-Lago all

9:11

the time got access to this information.

9:13

We know that in 2019 there was a Chinese

9:16

businesswoman in air quotes who was arrested

9:18

for trespassing at Mar-a-Lago

9:21

when the cops searched her hotel room they found

9:23

a device that's used to find hidden

9:26

cameras, they found SIM cards, they

9:28

found jump drives, all kinds

9:30

of spy gear everywhere, right? So we know that like foreign

9:32

intelligence agencies have tried to get into Mar-a-Lago.

9:35

Little did they know they just had to go to the right ballroom

9:37

or bathroom. Like the keys to the kingdom

9:39

were just there. So I think you know

9:41

we know what

9:42

he took and we know that he exposed

9:44

some of the most sensitive information the government

9:46

has to disclosure. We may

9:48

never know what actually got out there and I think that's the

9:51

thing that freaks out the intel people the most.

9:52

Can I just say one thing I spoke with

9:54

the former director of the CIA John Brennan

9:57

and the intelligence community is supposed to be doing an assessment

9:59

of how damage the retention

10:01

of these documents has been to US national

10:05

security interests. And he said, I doubt that assessment

10:07

is ever going to be complete because we'll really

10:09

never know. He said if foreign

10:12

intelligence agents were at Mar-a-Lago, they weren't taking

10:14

the documents, they were taking pictures of them, right? And

10:16

maybe they didn't take photos, who knows? But

10:18

determining that conclusively is almost impossible,

10:21

which is, I think, devastating for people

10:23

who see a toilet and

10:26

potentially nuclear plans sitting in the

10:28

same room.

10:28

You would probably need a CIA asset

10:31

within the Chinese intelligence service

10:33

to say, to tell us back

10:36

that we got this information, right? Like we need to learn

10:38

from the inside, so it could take decades. I

10:40

saw in one story that Trump people are floating a

10:42

possible defense that, well, at least he didn't

10:44

show any of this stuff to foreign nationals, which

10:46

like, it's like, number one,

10:48

that's not the law. And number

10:51

two,

10:52

we don't know that. Like these

10:54

are, keep in mind the Bedminster thing

10:56

with Mark Milley and the representative

10:59

from the PAC, those are the only things that Jackson

11:01

has evidence of. Who knows what

11:03

else he showed to who else? We know that in 2017, he

11:05

was in the Oval Office with Sergey

11:08

Lavrov and the Russian ambassador, and he coughed

11:10

up to them. He started bragging about getting

11:12

really sensitive intelligence about ISIS. And

11:14

in so doing, disclosed the fact that

11:16

the Israeli intelligence services

11:19

had an asset inside ISIS. Like the most

11:21

sensitive thing you could

11:22

possibly just cough up to the worst possible

11:24

people. I think you're being deeply unfair, John. I think it's

11:26

very possible that the only two times

11:28

he showed the documents were the two times he was being taped.

11:33

Honestly, possible, I guess. This

11:35

is sort of unrelated. I also say that this

11:37

is bad news for people who think

11:39

Donald Trump had evidence of aliens.

11:41

We would know for sure. Because he

11:45

wouldn't have sat on that. No, he would

11:47

have tweeted it out. So,

11:50

love it. Obviously, indictment seems incredibly

11:53

damning. A few challenges for

11:55

prosecutors, though. I see

11:57

a couple. One is getting a speedy

11:59

trial.

11:59

that at least starts

12:02

before November of 2024. Two

12:04

is getting a jury in South Florida that

12:07

doesn't have any Trump fans on it. And

12:09

three, and maybe the biggest, is that the case has been assigned to

12:12

Trump-appointed judge Aileen Cannon, whose

12:15

rulings about the FBI raid of Mar-a-Lago were

12:17

so bad that they were reversed by

12:19

the very conservative 11th

12:21

Circuit Court of Appeals. How much does all this

12:24

matter to the government's case?

12:26

It matters a fair amount. There's sort of debate

12:29

amongst even legal experts about how bad

12:32

a draw it is that it is Aileen Cannon.

12:34

No one thinks it's good. Some people think it's not as

12:36

bad as we think, and some people think it's as bad as it could possibly

12:39

be. You know, the ability to

12:41

drag out

12:43

all of the pretrial procedures

12:45

that'll be about classified information, about

12:48

the Trump lawyers accusing

12:50

the DOJ of overreach and prosecutorial

12:52

misconduct. They'll

12:54

be about the fact that some of the evidence is privileged

12:57

conversations. Those are all places where the judge can make

12:59

a bunch of trouble before it goes to trial. In

13:01

trial, we don't know how this person

13:03

would conduct themselves. We also don't yet know that this

13:06

judge will be the trial judge, right? That

13:08

can change, can seek a different judge.

13:11

One reason to be a

13:13

little less pessimistic is you have to think that the

13:15

prosecutors thought about this and how they

13:18

constructed the indictment, the evidence they included,

13:20

the evidence they haven't included. Like one

13:22

thought that some experts looking

13:24

at the evidence that was included in the indictment, are

13:27

saying is these are classified documents

13:30

they assume are already compromised. So they might be

13:32

comfortable releasing, making them part of the trial.

13:34

Whatever, we don't yet know, but

13:36

it's a very bad draw that this person

13:39

is just a Trump funky. And

13:42

wild to think that you could be accused of a federal crime

13:44

and then the judge is someone to whom you gave an

13:46

amazing promotion.

13:48

Well, and I think it's not just that

13:50

she is a Trump funky, though that is

13:53

certainly part of the problem. But like the three

13:55

judge panel

13:56

from the 11th circuit when they ruled against

13:58

her in that.

13:59

Three-judge panel included two Trump judges

14:02

and a Bush judge, and they admonished

14:04

her for, quote, carving out an unprecedented

14:07

exception in our law for former presidents.

14:10

So one thing that, like you said, Jack

14:12

Smith can do and the special counsel can do

14:14

is say, well,

14:17

first of all, they can request that she voluntarily

14:19

recuse herself. She can decide

14:21

to do that or not. The rule is

14:23

basically, if you don't appear impartial,

14:28

then you should recuse

14:29

yourself. If she doesn't do that, then they can appeal

14:32

it. But that's a very hard one to prove.

14:35

But I do think that

14:37

the 11th Circuit, even as very

14:39

conservative as it is, has already

14:42

said that she was not impartial

14:44

in that case. And really threw

14:46

into question her legal acumen in

14:48

all of this. And I think some folks have

14:50

said, maybe it's a good thing that she's effectively had

14:53

her wrist slap so publicly by Trump

14:55

appointing judges. And whether that

14:57

curbs her instinct to be forthrightly

15:00

in the tank for Trump, the next go round, which

15:02

would be this go round. But I don't

15:03

know. Would require an amenability to shame.

15:06

Right. That is true. Short supply.

15:09

Right. And she's a federal judge who has

15:11

that job for life. Yeah. We've depleted

15:14

the strategic shame reserves, unfortunately. Dan,

15:18

we will get to the politics of

15:20

the Republican reaction to the indictment in a bit.

15:24

Wondering if you can respond to the substance of

15:26

the criticism we've heard so far,

15:29

which boils down to, to try to summarize

15:31

it, A, Trump

15:34

secretly declassified all this classified

15:36

information when he was president, just like mind

15:38

trick kind of thing. B,

15:41

this is an administrative issue under

15:43

the Presidential Records Act, not a

15:45

national security issue under the Espionage

15:48

Act. And this seems to be

15:50

the most common now. This is a partisan weaponization

15:53

of government because Trump got charged,

15:55

even though Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden

15:57

haven't. And this is a double stand.

15:59

standard of justice and blah, blah, blah. What

16:02

do you say to all your Trump-loving friends and

16:04

family who offer these excuses

16:06

to you? I would humbly suggest that

16:08

you not engage your Trump-loving friends

16:10

and family about this and focus more on

16:13

your like,

16:13

magga, curious aunt, or

16:16

your Biden skeptical cousin. Like, that's where we should go with

16:18

this? Yeah, so cousin, median voter. Yeah.

16:22

So let's try to take these one at a time. So

16:24

on the question of whether Trump declassified

16:27

them, presidents can basically declassify

16:29

things with mind tricks, like that is available to them. And

16:31

Trump has made that argument

16:33

on Twitter, or on Truth

16:35

Social, I guess, where it is not. Where you make your legal arguments.

16:38

Where it is definitely not a crime to lie. Trump

16:41

aides have made it on cable news where it's definitely not

16:43

a crime to lie. No one has made it in

16:45

a court of law where it is a crime

16:47

to lie. And as you pointed out, he is on

16:50

tape saying that he did not

16:52

declassify it. So I think we dispense with that one.

16:54

The second one is Presidential

16:57

Records Act versus Espionage Act. And Trump's trying

16:59

to imply that Jack Smith went

17:01

out of his way to charge him under the more serious

17:04

statute. Presidential Records

17:06

Act simply says that you can't destroy

17:08

records. Presidential records are the property of the government.

17:11

And before you leave the White House, you were as a soon

17:13

departing president. You have to separate

17:15

government records that go to the archives and your personal

17:18

records, which you can keep. Trump obviously

17:20

did not do that. He seems to have

17:22

violated that. But that has nothing to

17:24

do with the crimes he's been charged with. He has been

17:26

charged with 37 felony counts related to illegally

17:29

retaining

17:30

classified information, national defense information,

17:33

and doing it

17:36

imposing extreme measures to hold

17:38

onto that information after the government

17:41

has asked for it back, as you said. Moving

17:43

boxes to save head of things, lying to his attorneys,

17:46

lying to prosecutors, encouraging other people to lie,

17:48

encouraging his attorney to

17:50

pluck out the damning stuff before

17:52

they turn it over to the government. So

17:55

the crimes committed

17:57

here are under the Espionage Act. They have nothing to do with the Presidential

17:59

Records Act. But if we wanted to charge him with

18:01

violation of record, that is also available to them,

18:04

which is not necessary. The third thing

18:06

here is whether,

18:07

how is this different than what

18:09

Joe Biden did or Mike Pence did, which is under,

18:12

they went after we found out that Donald Trump had classified

18:15

documents, they on their own conducted

18:17

a search of their documents and they found

18:19

in their possession classified documents

18:21

they did not know they had. And what did they do when they found

18:23

those?

18:24

They turned them over to the government. And

18:27

what is interesting here, Trump obviously did not do

18:29

that. He tried very hard not to turn it over. He refused

18:31

to respond to them. He lied to them, he hid them. To

18:34

this date, he may not have turned them all over. But

18:37

the way you know that this is not some sort of differential

18:39

treatment is that Trump was not charged

18:41

for any of the documents he turned over. He's only

18:44

charged for the ones he refused to turn over.

18:46

And he returned some that were classified.

18:49

We think accidentally. Actually, yes. He

18:51

returned some books for which the were classified

18:53

documents. It was like, oh, this is boring.

18:56

Right, Nada moves a bunch of boxes

18:58

out, lets his lawyer go through the ones he left

19:00

behind. The classified documents from that

19:03

batch, they sealed in an envelope, they returned.

19:05

Unbeknownst to the lawyer, there's another room full of documents.

19:08

I think that he had Nada moved 64 boxes

19:10

out and Nada

19:13

only returned 30 to the storage unit. Exactly.

19:15

Here's the civil, I mean,

19:18

you're not supposed to take nuclear secrets from

19:20

the White House as a souvenir when you leave. Yeah.

19:23

I think that's, I don't think the Espionage Act envisioned

19:25

that. I don't think the Presidential Records Act envisioned

19:27

that. And then when the government asked

19:29

for the nuclear secrets that you stole from the White House

19:31

back, you're not supposed to lie to them and

19:34

then hide them somewhere else. Every

19:36

president gets

19:39

one get out of jail free card to

19:41

return the nuclear secrets they kept in their house.

19:44

That's it though. Kind of true. It

19:46

is, I'm serious, that's real.

19:48

I just, I keep going back to like, the

19:50

Atlantic had a piece that was like, the dumbest

19:53

crime ever. And it is kind

19:55

of the dumbest crime ever, right? Especially if he wasn't

19:57

actually using this for profit and it was just

19:59

ego.

19:59

and settling political scores. And it does sort

20:02

of open your mind chamber to like, if this is

20:04

what he was doing with the documents,

20:07

what else was he doing in the Oval Office when

20:09

he was president? When this became the dumbest crime ever, it

20:11

just surpassed the other dumbest crime also

20:13

committed by Trump when he tried to extort the Ukrainians.

20:16

That was, yeah. I thought you were gonna talk about the hush

20:18

money payment. We've got a lot now. And

20:21

we got a couple more coming, maybe, we'll

20:22

see. All right, we have a lot

20:25

more indictment news to talk about right

20:27

after we bring out your Attorney General, Tish

20:30

James. Yeah.

20:33

Yeah.

20:39

Please welcome to the stage, your Attorney

20:42

General, Tish James. Yeah.

20:44

Thank you.

20:57

Thank you for joining us. For some reason, they keep inviting

21:00

me back. I don't understand it. I have a good reason why. So

21:03

something happened last week. I'm sure you

21:05

paid attention to it.

21:07

Former President Trump charged with federal criminal indictment.

21:12

His dance card looks like it's getting kind of full.

21:15

You are scheduled to go to trial in

21:18

your own civil case against the President

21:20

in October. October 2nd.

21:23

But who's counting the days? Um.

21:29

The special counsel has asked for a speedy trial

21:31

for this. Is this going to intersect with

21:33

your case at all? How is everybody

21:36

gonna manage the calendar here? So in all likelihood,

21:39

I believe that my case, as well as

21:41

DA Bragg and

21:44

the Georgia case, will unfortunately

21:46

have to be adjourned, pending the outcome

21:49

of the federal case. So it all

21:51

depends upon the scheduling

21:54

of this particular case. I know there's gonna

21:56

be a flood, a flurry of motions,

21:58

motions to dismiss, discovery issues.

21:59

all of that, so it really all depends. Obviously

22:02

all of us want to know what this judge,

22:04

Judge Cannon is going to do, and whether or

22:06

not she's going to delay this particular case.

22:09

Are you concerned about that? I think everyone

22:11

is concerned about that. So obviously

22:13

it will depend upon the scheduling.

22:15

You're one of the few people

22:17

that has been able to question Donald Trump under

22:20

oath. You did so, I believe, for seven hours?

22:23

Yes. Which is hats off. And

22:28

he answered all those questions without pleading

22:30

the fifth, which is something he traditionally

22:32

does when- That was the second time, the first time

22:34

he took- Exactly. And I know you can't

22:37

talk about what happened, but

22:39

I wonder if you could tell us about any insight you

22:41

gained

22:42

about the former president and how he is dealing

22:44

with the legal peril he finds himself in. So

22:46

Alex, you know I really can't talk about the deposition,

22:50

but he did attend and he did answer the questions.

22:52

Okay, well that's that. He

22:55

has been- But he did

22:57

not look at me. Well,

22:59

okay, that's a good segue to my

23:01

second question, which is

23:03

he has been, he's really singled out

23:05

black prosecutors. You, Alvin

23:08

Bragg, the Fulton County DA, Fonny Willis,

23:10

and he's called all of you racists. Do you have an

23:12

opinion on why the former president is calling

23:14

particularly,

23:15

and specifically black prosecutors, racist? I have no

23:17

idea. But

23:20

he's also attacking Jack Smith as well.

23:23

As deranged, but not racist. As deranged,

23:25

but I guess- With a fake name. Exactly.

23:28

So listen, he can call me all kinds of names.

23:31

That really doesn't matter to me. The reality is, is

23:33

that our case is based on the facts and the law,

23:35

and I look forward to seeing him on October 2nd.

23:38

Yeah.

23:44

Some of Trump's supporters are calling for violence

23:47

implicitly, explicitly, and

23:49

some of them call for an uprising to defend him ahead

23:51

of his court appearance in Miami, be appearing

23:54

in court here in October. Is

23:56

New York taking precautions to deal with the

23:58

threat of violence? Is your- office receiving

24:00

threats, what precautions are you taking? So

24:02

let me just say that I'm really concerned obviously because

24:05

they are feeding into

24:07

all of this anger that unfortunately currently

24:09

exist in our society

24:11

and we find ourselves more

24:13

polarized than ever, I think since

24:16

the Civil War and it's rather unfortunate. And

24:18

I'm very much concerned that individuals,

24:21

lone wolves, will obviously resort to

24:23

violence. And so here in the city

24:26

of New York and in the state of New York, we're taking

24:28

precautions. I have more

24:30

law enforcement around me these days.

24:32

Individuals have threatened my life, but

24:35

I will not be paralyzed by fear,

24:37

by no means. I'm from Brooklyn.

24:40

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank

24:42

you. But

24:45

we obviously should be concerned because

24:48

of what he represents. And he represents a threat

24:50

to our national security and

24:52

to the safety of us as a whole. But

24:55

more importantly, to all of

24:57

those men and women who bravely are serving this

24:59

country and representing this country, I'm more concerned

25:02

about them here in an unfarrened

25:04

soil. And so I would wish everyone

25:06

would just tone it down and

25:08

just recognize what is at stake. And what is at stake,

25:11

my friends, is our democracy. And that's

25:13

why it's so critically important that all of us stay

25:15

together and that we recognize

25:19

the risk that

25:22

he poses to our democracy

25:25

and that obviously

25:27

individuals stay focused

25:29

on a lot of the issues. And if all

25:31

you have to do is read the indictment,

25:34

it speaks for itself. And

25:37

my complaint as well speaks for itself.

25:39

And nothing else needs to be said.

25:46

Can I just ask because I think the

25:48

fact that you prosecutors

25:51

are human beings with lives and families

25:53

often gets lost in the shuffle. And the

25:55

president is out there talking at length

25:57

about Jack Smith, as you point out, being deranged.

25:59

talking about his wife, talking about people's

26:02

family and their children,

26:04

what does it mean for your life? Since

26:06

you've launched a $250 million civil lawsuit that

26:10

basically aims to end the Trump organization's

26:12

ability to do business in New York, which in many ways

26:14

I think people say will end the Trump organization

26:17

writ large, I mean, how has that

26:19

affected you as a person?

26:22

So

26:22

yes, we are seeking $250 million in damages and

26:27

in fines, yes, we are seeking to ban

26:29

the Trump organization, Mr. Trump and

26:31

his children and individuals

26:34

who served on the board. Yes, we have a monitor

26:36

in place because we were concerned that he was going

26:38

to restructure the corporation. We have a monitor

26:40

in place right now to ensure that they are

26:42

in compliance. Am I concerned about my personal

26:45

safety? I don't think about it. The reality

26:47

is I've got a job to do each and every

26:50

day. And again, I cannot

26:52

be paralyzed

26:52

by fear. I've got to wake up each

26:55

and every day with this fire in my belly to

26:57

represent the interests of their citizens

26:59

of the state of New York, to serve this

27:01

state and to continue to do my job.

27:04

I don't really think about Mr. Trump each and

27:06

every day. I think about the work

27:08

that I've got to do. He thinks about you though. I know

27:10

that. I know that. But

27:14

yeah, I've got a job to do. I have a

27:16

job to do. So I'm not,

27:19

yeah, I'm just not gonna worry

27:23

about that. You

27:26

have made addressing gun violence

27:28

in the state of New York a huge priority of yours. The

27:31

Supreme Court of the United States has made it much harder

27:33

for states to aggressively

27:35

try to keep guns out of the hands of

27:38

certain individuals.

27:40

Recently, you filed suit

27:42

against the company that manufactured an accessory

27:44

used on the gun used in the Buffalo, New York mass shooting.

27:47

Talk to me a little bit about what you're trying to accomplish with

27:49

that suit and how that fits into your broader strategy to address

27:51

gun violence.

27:52

The name of the company is called Mean Arms.

27:55

And basically what it did, it is aided that individual

27:57

who was radicalized on social media.

27:59

And basically, they created a lock for

28:03

guns. And they said it was permanent,

28:05

when in fact it was not. And so

28:07

they advertise how you basically can remove the

28:09

lock. We thought it was permanent, and in fact it

28:11

is not. And you need the lock to have your

28:13

gun be legal in the state of New York, is that correct?

28:16

Correct. And individuals, the

28:18

company basically provided

28:20

instructions to individuals to remove the

28:22

lock. And this individual, as you know,

28:25

fired and killed 10 innocent people

28:28

at the top supermarket in Buffalo. And he was only

28:30

allowed to do that because he had this

28:33

device. And that's why we were taking action.

28:35

With respect to gun violence, you know, I've

28:37

been involved in addressing gun violence

28:39

from my days as a city council member, to

28:41

my days as a public advocate, and now as the attorney

28:44

general. And I'm happy to say that not

28:46

only, you

28:48

know, do we just talk about gun violence,

28:50

but we actually use the power of my office

28:53

to engage in litigation. So we have

28:55

sued individuals who basically produce

28:58

what they call ghost guns, which

29:00

are guns so that you can make basically from

29:02

the internet. 10 companies

29:04

that sell ghost guns here in the state of New York, we

29:07

were able to stop them from selling those guns to

29:10

individuals who had no right to have them. Two,

29:12

we've done a number of takedowns. We've removed

29:15

guns, we've removed drugs, fentanyl,

29:18

we've removed dangerous

29:21

drugs that unfortunately are illegal in the state of New

29:23

York. And we do buybacks. And

29:25

so several weeks ago, around three weeks

29:28

ago, we did a statewide buyback. And

29:30

on one given day, we were able to

29:32

remove 3,000 guns off of

29:35

the streets of the state of New York. And that includes

29:38

the AR-15s as well as some ghost guns.

29:41

Since I have served as attorney general, in total,

29:43

we have removed 7,000 guns.

29:46

We've taken seizure money from those individuals.

29:49

Take seizure money from individuals who are engaging in

29:52

illegal activity. And those funds and resources are used.

30:00

again for these buybacks. And so we'll

30:02

give individuals $500 for an AR-15 with no

30:06

questions asked. And we continue to do that

30:08

all across the state. So it's litigation, it's

30:10

advocacy,

30:12

and of course it's through

30:15

enforcement measures as well. On

30:17

the topic of violence, your office

30:20

recently filed a lawsuit against anti-abortion

30:22

activists in New York and it seeks

30:25

to...

30:30

It seeks to create a 30-foot buffer

30:33

outside of all abortion providers in New York

30:35

State. Given the fact that blue states are increasingly

30:37

the only places in America where women have

30:40

insured... are insured access to their own

30:42

bodily autonomy and reproductive freedom, are

30:45

you concerned about increasing

30:47

violence targeting abortion providers given

30:50

the sharp divide between red and blue states

30:52

in this country? So this particular

30:56

group, organization, unfortunately,

30:59

is not only active here in the state of New

31:01

York, but active in states where reproductive

31:04

rights obviously are respected. And here

31:06

in the state of New York, reproductive rights are

31:08

protected. And this organization

31:11

would pretend that they were patients going to

31:13

clinics and basically

31:15

disrupt the clinics. They would basically

31:17

glue themselves and lock themselves

31:19

into clinics and deny individuals

31:23

their access to reproductive rights. They

31:25

particularly

31:26

focused on Planned Parenthood and it's important

31:28

that everyone knows that Planned Parenthood does more

31:30

than just abortions. Individuals

31:33

go to Planned Parenthood for cancer screening,

31:35

for STDs, and so this organization

31:37

said that they were committed to stopping abortions

31:40

in the state of New York. And I said, not

31:42

on my watch. So we've gone to court.

31:49

We've gone to court and we are filing

31:52

criminal charges against them and

31:55

they will, unfortunately, they will

31:57

fortunately be held accountable.

31:59

and serve criminal sentences. Right now they're

32:02

completing their sentence in Michigan and

32:04

then they have to come to New York to answer to our charges,

32:06

to our case here, our charges here, and I'm confident

32:09

that we will convict them and that they, in

32:11

fact, will go to jail.

32:14

Thank you so much for being here.

32:19

Thanks so much

32:21

for everything you do. Everyone, please give it up for

32:23

your attorney general. Thank you. I appreciate you. Thank

32:26

you so much. Thank

32:29

you, Alex. Thank you. Thank you. Thank

32:31

you.

32:34

When we come back, more news.

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34:08

All right, let's talk about some more news. Specifically,

34:12

the politics of the fact that Donald

34:15

Trump

34:16

is still the front runner for the

34:18

Republican nomination by a large

34:20

margin. CBS poll that

34:22

was taken over the weekend shows

34:24

Trump leading Ron DeSantis 61 to 23

34:27

percent with

34:29

every other candidate under five percent.

34:32

Sorry to the Tim Scott and Hailey fans here.

34:37

The announcements did not give them the bump they had hoped.

34:39

Watch that space. A

34:42

lot of virgin ground for Tim Scott to explore.

34:49

Oh, I don't care. That's not that. Same

34:53

poll also says that 80 percent

34:56

of Republican primary voters think that

34:58

if Trump is convicted

35:00

of a crime, he should still be

35:02

able to serve as president. Most

35:05

Republican politicians, including his primary opponents,

35:08

refused to condemn Trump for stealing nuclear

35:10

secrets. Many of them did so

35:12

before they even knew it was in the indictment.

35:14

There were some like, you

35:16

know, DeSantis and Pence who were trying

35:18

to have it both ways. They were trying to attack Biden

35:21

and Garland for the double

35:23

standard of justice while still insinuating

35:26

maybe that Trump's case might be legitimate.

35:29

Then there are exceptions who've criticized Trump. Asa

35:31

Hutchinson, Chris Christie

35:33

and Rhino Libcock, Bill Barr,

35:36

Trump's attorney general who said this

35:38

on Fox over the weekend. I think the counts under

35:41

the Espionage Act that he willfully

35:44

retained those documents are solid

35:46

counts. If even half of it is

35:49

true, then he's toast. I mean, it's a pretty,

35:51

it's a very detailed indictment and

35:54

it's very, very damning. And this

35:56

idea of presenting Trump as a victim here, a victim of a crime,

35:59

and it's not just a crime. It's a crime.

35:59

a witch hunt is ridiculous.

36:03

The government's documents, their official records,

36:05

they're not his personal records. Battle

36:07

plans for an attack on another country

36:11

or defense department documents about

36:13

our capabilities are in no universe

36:16

Donald J. Trump's personal documents.

36:19

This idea that the president

36:21

has complete authority to declare

36:24

any document personal is obvious.

36:26

It's facially ridiculous. These are

36:28

official documents. It's inarguable.

36:31

The president's daily brief provided

36:34

by the intelligence community is not

36:36

Donald J. Trump's personal document.

36:39

Period.

36:40

Bill Barr, ladies and gentlemen. Only

36:45

time Bill Barr is ever going to get an applause. Such

36:47

conflicted applause out there. Can

36:51

we get him as the judge? I don't get him as the judge.

36:54

So Alex, we've talked a lot about this, but I'd love to get your

36:57

thoughts.

36:57

Why are these candidates going

37:00

through all the trouble of running for president

37:02

against Donald Trump

37:04

if they won't even try to make a case to

37:06

Republican voters

37:08

that Bill Barr just

37:10

made, former Trump official? As

37:13

terrifying as it is to enter the

37:15

mind chamber of Vivek Ramaswamy,

37:17

I will do it for you. I don't know

37:20

why Vivek Ramaswamy is running. I

37:22

don't know why Chris Christie is running. I have a sense

37:24

that, okay, first of all, to run for president requires

37:27

a healthy amount of self regard. Some

37:30

would say narcissism.

37:32

And I think each one of them

37:34

have these particular

37:37

personal motivations. I think Chris Christie is

37:40

feels a lot of shame for

37:42

his just catastrophic loss as a candidate in 2016

37:45

and the way in which he was completely rolled by Donald

37:48

Trump over and over again, almost as you guys

37:50

are want to point out, killed by Donald Trump

37:52

contracting COVID during Trump debate prep,

37:54

which is what a way to go. That would

37:56

have been.

37:58

And I think this is his

37:59

sort of personal rehabilitation

38:02

tour and I think he also thinks he has a role to play

38:04

in fixing the Republican Party and getting rid

38:06

of Trump. I don't know if that's gonna happen but he's

38:08

not gonna mince his words if he ever makes it to a debate stage

38:10

with Trump, right? So I think he has at least more

38:13

than anyone else a specific purpose

38:15

that is beyond himself. As far as

38:17

Mike Pence, here's a hint. If they erect

38:19

gallows in your name, they're

38:21

probably not gonna vote for you. Just,

38:23

I mean, I'm not a political strategist

38:25

but that seems like the one, two, three of launching

38:29

a presidential campaign. I think he has

38:32

a sort of, you know, he's a deeply

38:34

religious man. I think he believes he is some

38:37

kind, there's a little bit of a messiah

38:39

complex, I would say. Like he is a

38:42

very much OG white Christian nationalist and

38:44

I think, you know, this is his time. So

38:48

that could be the reason, although I constantly

38:50

don't, his is the most perplexing campaign

38:53

of all of them. And Ron DeSantis,

38:56

you know, Ron DeSantis was called the

38:58

resume. That was his nickname from

39:00

his friends when he was in, I think,

39:03

law school. This is someone who has checked

39:06

all the boxes and, you know,

39:08

you see this, the presidency as the

39:10

next stage of like, what do you do after you've been

39:12

the governor of Florida? You go

39:14

be president. And

39:17

I don't think it's anything more, I

39:20

don't think he's particularly animated

39:22

by

39:23

policy or even ideology.

39:25

I think his candidacy and,

39:28

you know, his spirit seems to be driven

39:30

more by the desire to achieve

39:32

and a mass power. And I think that's reflected

39:35

in his

39:36

skills on the campaign trail, which are not,

39:39

I wouldn't call him Mr. Personality. Here's

39:41

the thing though, like we, we've all been on

39:43

campaigns. We know that like we, Ron

39:47

DeSantis didn't have to come out and be like,

39:49

you know, Donald Trump needs to go to jail. This is

39:51

a searing indictment and he

39:53

could have done like a sort of an indirect

39:56

hit on Donald Trump, right? He could have

39:58

done that, like just not.

39:59

Well, but like look at the numbers. He's

40:02

strengthened among the Republican base that

40:04

they have to win over in a primary.

40:06

I know. And like you can't even open

40:09

the door to criticism. It's an

40:12

it's an impossible tightrope to walk. But

40:14

that's

40:14

I think resume is the right term because

40:16

what he's doing is what makes sense on paper.

40:19

He's seen the numbers, the numbers make clear. Donald

40:21

Trump is very popular. The base of the party,

40:23

the people he'll need in some measure are

40:26

believe this is a

40:28

political prosecution. But

40:31

every single person that is coming to Donald Trump's aid

40:33

while trying to beat Donald Trump in a primary

40:36

lack both the confidence in themselves as candidates

40:39

and lack the imagination to believe it is possible

40:41

for them to persuade the group of people they

40:43

need to come to their side

40:45

while criticizing Donald Trump. They lack

40:48

the imagination and and and

40:50

strategy to move the party away from him.

40:52

But this is it, which is why the party will

40:54

never

40:55

move, which I like. There's this chicken or egg

40:57

problem where these candidates look

40:59

at the voters and they see that poll and they say,

41:01

oh, they're for Trump. So I can't say anything and I

41:03

can't piss them off. But these voters, the only

41:06

information that they're consuming is

41:08

telling them that Donald Trump is great and they're not hearing the other

41:10

side of the story. So no one's even trying to

41:13

make the case to these voters because they're not listening

41:15

to positive America. What's

41:17

not watching MSNBC? Not yet. And

41:21

so like, like I imagine

41:23

there's probably a bunch of Fox viewers that watch

41:25

Bill Barr and we're like, what? What? What is he

41:27

talking about? It's the same thing that happened 2016 to

41:29

collective action problem. We wanted them to go first.

41:31

No one wants to jump first. It's just going to be exhausting

41:33

to watch. I think it's a different it's slightly

41:36

different 2016. There is a collective action problem, but

41:39

you do have to establish

41:42

who you are and establish

41:44

it be known to the voters before you take on

41:46

Trump. In 2016, all

41:49

of those candidates were well known to the voters.

41:51

Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio,

41:53

even Chris Christie. And the voters said, no, thank you.

41:56

These candidates fully

41:59

misunderstood.

41:59

they're placing the race, they do not understand

42:02

that they are long shots, even Ron DeSantis, and

42:04

you need to adopt a high variant

42:06

strategy to win when you're a long shot. So they're just deciding

42:09

to lose quietly instead of lose loudly. But

42:11

I do understand why you don't go

42:13

after Donald Trump right this second

42:16

until you have at least introduced yourself

42:18

to like 12 people,

42:19

right? Which they have not yet done. Yeah, Alex

42:22

mentioned Vivek Brahmaswamy. He

42:24

said that he would pardon Trump if

42:26

he wins the presidency. Does

42:29

anyone wanna make the case that you could win the Republican

42:31

nomination without promising

42:33

that you'll pardon Trump if you're president? Yeah, I

42:36

got this. You wanna hear it? No, go, go. Shit,

42:38

this shit is easy. Uh. No,

42:41

I will not pardon

42:43

President Trump because President Trump

42:45

is innocent and this is another example

42:47

of you in the liberal media trying

42:50

to get me to concede that

42:52

President Trump is guilty and thus would need

42:54

a pardon. We live in the greatest country on earth,

42:56

John, and there's no jury that

42:59

is gonna look at what my president did. Oh my

43:01

goodness. And decide that he is guilty

43:03

of a crime. What

43:06

are you applauding? I'm

43:08

a demagogue now. Thank

43:10

you, Ron DeSantis. You're welcome. That's

43:12

better

43:12

than anything Ron DeSantis has done on

43:14

this job. Yeah, by a mile, by a mile. I

43:17

would make the, I agree with everything time

43:19

he said. And

43:21

I'm alarmed at how he did that. It's

43:24

like everyone's got a demagogue inside him. Okay,

43:28

just between us, I currently have a Mike

43:30

Pence tramp stamp

43:31

on my lower back because I lost a bet

43:34

you'll learn about it later next week. Dan,

43:36

you're up. I would make the

43:38

case that you can't win the nomination if you promised

43:41

to pardon Trump. If you promised to.

43:44

Yes. Because what I think all of these candidates

43:46

don't understand is that strength is the

43:48

axis on which Republican power is accumulated.

43:51

And so if you, Trump wins because he seems

43:53

like the dominating figure. So if you just decided

43:56

to become his personal

43:59

servant. who's going to pardon him and give

44:01

him a Diet Coke, you can't look strong. And

44:03

so I think you have to do, I think, Chris

44:05

Christie, who I know is every resistance, liberals

44:08

favorite Republican candidate, he actually answered it right, which

44:10

is, I'm going to wait until the case is done

44:13

and I'm going to look at it. But promising now

44:15

makes you look weak and you cannot be

44:17

Trump if you look weak.

44:19

I think that, yeah, I think you can get away

44:21

with saying, let's see how the case plays out and

44:23

also, I'm not going to have to worry about it because

44:25

I'm going to win. How about someone saying I'm going to

44:27

win? No one will believe that. That's

44:29

what I'm saying, none of these people will be like, I'm going to win,

44:31

so it's not going to be a big deal. None of them will say

44:33

that. Well, also, just keep in mind, nothing definitive

44:36

is being said by any of these Republican candidates on

44:38

literally anything because the Republican Party

44:40

is bereft of an actual platform at this

44:42

point, right? What does it stand

44:44

for? It's very, and I say this, I

44:47

can't tell you the party platform,

44:50

even on a federal abortion ban, they know

44:52

it's political suicide for them,

44:54

so they're going to try and avoid the question, a la

44:56

your candidate, Tim Scott. And

44:59

do everything their power not to say anything.

45:02

I mean, am I wrong

45:03

about it? Are you wrong about Tim

45:05

Scott? No. No. You're

45:10

bullish on Tim Scott's chances.

45:12

You love him. One

45:15

podcast, one time, I'm like, what

45:18

you say, what? Let's just keep an eye on this. All

45:20

I said was watch this fucking space. Words

45:22

matter. Words matter,

45:24

John, words matter, America heard you. Anyway, the

45:26

point is, I

45:28

don't think they're going to say anything about anything. I don't

45:30

think they're going to say anything about foreign policy. I don't

45:33

think they're going to say anything about, I mean, look at the debt ceiling

45:35

talks. Those are the people who are in Congress,

45:37

who are Republicans, they don't know anything about policy. All

45:41

they want to do is ban trans people

45:43

from existing and make sure that, you

45:46

know, slavery

45:48

isn't taught in Florida schools, right? It

45:51

is hard to say, oh, I am very

45:53

highly skeptical of

45:56

anybody articulating a position on anything

45:58

including and especially the party. of Donald

46:00

Trump. Well, Trump has had a lot to say about

46:03

Donald Trump's indictment. He was, you

46:05

know, over the

46:06

weekend, he did what any good lawyer would

46:08

advise. Um... their

46:10

criminal defendant facing multiple indictments.

46:14

He held a bunch of public events where

46:16

he spoke extensively about the charges against him.

46:19

Here he is at a rally in Georgia over

46:21

the weekend.

46:22

Every time I fly over a blue

46:24

state, I get a subpoena. We

46:28

want him before the grand jury. In

46:31

this whole fake indictment, they don't even once

46:33

mention the

46:35

Presidential Records Act, which

46:37

is really the ruling act, which

46:39

this case falls under 100%, because

46:42

they want to use something called the Espionage

46:45

Act. Doesn't that sound terrible? Oh, Espionage.

46:47

I mean, actually, I thought it was... I was impressed. I

46:50

looked... I looked so orderly and nice. Somehow,

46:52

somebody turned over one of the boxers. Did

46:54

you see that? I said, I wonder who did that. Did the FBI

46:56

do that? Jack Smith. What

46:59

do you think his name used to be? I don't know. Does anybody

47:01

have any...? Jack Smith. Sounds so innocent.

47:03

He's deranged. And his wife

47:06

is even more of a Trump hater. I

47:09

wish her a lot of luck, but he's... he's

47:11

a bad Trump hater, and she's a Trump hater.

47:14

These criminals cannot be rewarded. They

47:16

must be defeated. You have to defeat him.

47:19

Have to defeat him. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

47:22

Because in the end, they're not coming after me.

47:25

They're coming after you, and I'm just standing

47:27

in their way. Here I am. I'm standing in

47:29

their way, and I always will be. There

47:32

you have it.

47:34

So, I mentioned the number in that poll,

47:36

love it, that was 80% of Republican

47:38

voters think he should be able to serve

47:40

as president if convicted. In the same

47:42

poll, 92% of Republican

47:45

voters said that they would rather Trump talk about his plans

47:47

for the country than gripes about his

47:49

indictments or the 2020 election. What

47:52

do you make of that? And do you think... Do you think there's

47:54

any risk in Donald Trump making this campaign

47:57

about whether or not he

47:59

goes to jail?

47:59

So I pulled the same

48:02

numbers from the same poll. So first of all, there's been a

48:04

bunch of polling. And it's

48:07

not just that Trump's leading in the Republican field. It's

48:10

how strong that is among so many different

48:12

kinds of Republicans. And Republicans would say they care about different

48:14

things. Republicans who say they care about honesty, Trump's their

48:16

person. Republicans

48:19

who care about it, he's their person. And

48:21

so when I see that number, it feels

48:23

less like a weakness and more

48:25

like a bunch of people hoping a beloved grandpa

48:28

will tell a different story. At Thanksgiving,

48:30

you know, like, oh, that's our Trump. We love

48:32

him. And there's no getting us to one of these other fucking wackadoos.

48:35

But I do wish he would talk about something else for a

48:36

while. I'm a little bored, but I'm not switching.

48:39

That's how it feels looking at the polling. Republicans

48:41

who care about document retention policy,

48:43

Trump is

48:44

their guy. He retained the shit out of those

48:46

documents. Tommy,

48:50

we've heard Trump frame this indictment

48:52

as an apocalyptic battle. He

48:55

has also told his supporters to show

48:57

up in Miami and fight. He

49:00

has promised to, if he wins, appoint

49:03

a special prosecutor to go after Joe Biden, his

49:05

family, basically any of Trump's political enemies. Kerry

49:07

Lake's telling people if they want to convict

49:10

Trump, they have to come through her and all the other

49:12

NRA members. Republicans

49:14

in Congress are promising retribution. There's

49:16

MAGA media goons making violent threats. Should

49:19

we be making a big deal about the threat

49:21

of violence, the possibility for another

49:24

January 6th-like incident, or is this just

49:26

giving these people more attention?

49:27

I mean, I think we should be pretty concerned. The

49:31

last time when the FBI searched

49:33

Mar-a-Lago a couple days later, this was

49:35

last year, I believe, some guy in Ohio

49:38

went to an FBI field office in Cincinnati

49:40

with an assault weapon and a nail gun

49:42

and tried to shoot through the glass. And

49:45

when he couldn't, he tried to run away and there was a firefight

49:47

and this guy was killed, but this was a violent act. And

49:49

this individual both had

49:51

posted on social media about killing FBI

49:53

agents and attended the January

49:56

6th insurrection. So clearly,

49:58

these words matter. I think that

50:00

Trump seems to be escalating the rhetoric,

50:02

not dialing it down. I think that line at the end there that

50:05

we just saw, which is, you know,

50:07

I'm the only thing holding them back from going

50:09

after you is really kind of the scariest

50:12

piece of this. His surrogates in Congress

50:14

among right-wing radio are saying far

50:17

more intense things.

50:19

So yeah, I think it's very frightening and

50:21

something people should be talking about. I'm glad actually, there's

50:24

a big New York Times report over the weekend about some of this rhetoric.

50:26

Like people are paying attention this time.

50:28

Dan, that brings us to

50:30

Joe Biden and the Democrats and what they

50:32

should do about this, what they should say.

50:34

I saw a report that, you know,

50:37

the DNC had advised some

50:39

Democratic members over the weekend to

50:41

not really talk about this much. That

50:44

as you imagine, got some people on Twitter, a little

50:46

upset. But it does raise

50:49

the question,

50:50

if Trump wins the nomination, how

50:52

does Joe Biden handle

50:55

the fact that he is running against a twice

50:58

indicted criminal defendant?

51:00

Does he talk about it? How central does he make

51:02

it to the message? What would

51:04

you advise Biden and the Democrats to do in 24

51:07

about this? Think about how weird this is gonna

51:09

be, is that if Donald Trump is the nominee and

51:12

he is in the middle of, or preparing

51:14

for a criminal trial on 37

51:17

felony counts related to violations of the Espionage

51:20

Act, his chief opponent, the sitting

51:22

president, cannot and should

51:24

not say anything about it. The

51:27

entity bringing that case is the president's

51:29

own Justice Department. So for reasons

51:31

of law and politics, he

51:33

has to sort of no comment it. So we can't

51:35

mention that. It's gonna be the biggest news story in the world. He

51:37

can't mention at a rally. His campaign

51:39

can't put in an ad. If a junior

51:42

press person on the Biden campaign in Alaska

51:44

tweets about it,

51:45

the norms police are gonna freak out,

51:48

right? And everyone's gonna complain it like both sides, everything.

51:51

So it's gonna be this very weird thing that you can never be mentioned.

51:54

But because it's the biggest news

51:56

story in the land, you don't have to talk about it.

51:59

What you have to do is... to have an overall

52:01

message narrative that accounts for

52:03

it without saying it. And I think what this comes

52:05

down to is going to be

52:07

that

52:08

in the end, Donald Trump, because he's

52:11

already implied he's going to pardon himself, he's already said

52:13

he's going to pardon the people who helped him try to overthrow the

52:15

government in 2000, on January 6th, and that

52:19

he is running for president

52:21

not to help you, not to make

52:24

your life easier, to make it easier to go to college, pay for

52:26

gas and groceries. He's running to help himself and

52:29

his political allies. And that is what he's doing.

52:31

It is all about Trump. And I think that has

52:34

to be the core of the Biden message.

52:36

It's actually why Joe Biden is

52:38

uniquely qualified

52:40

to be the person who runs against Donald Trump, because they

52:43

are the exact polar opposites

52:45

of each other and how they think about the world. So

52:48

you're a no on the lock them up chants at the rallies.

52:50

Well, look, I'm a no on Joe

52:52

Biden leading the lock them up chants. Got it. People

52:56

there want to do it.

52:57

Wait, do you have something you want to say

53:00

about it? No. We

53:03

don't want to do it. Yeah,

53:06

I think that's right.

53:09

I was as you were saying that I was just

53:12

thinking,

53:13

Trump will probably try to if there are

53:15

debates between Biden and Trump, if it happens,

53:18

Trump will probably try to

53:19

bait Biden into talking about this. He'll

53:22

say you're trying to lock me up. We're trying to

53:24

and he's he's going to try to pull him into that and

53:26

give him a look at me, say, Bob, you're trying to lock

53:28

yourself up. Good

53:31

line. Good line. OK, that's good. When

53:35

we come back,

53:37

Hillary

53:41

Clinton.

53:44

She's been First Lady Secretary of State

53:46

author, senator from the great state of New York. And

53:49

most importantly, a podcast host. Please

53:51

welcome back to the show Hillary Clinton.

54:13

Welcome to the show. Thank you,

54:15

John. Glad to be here. I just want

54:17

to say, I don't get nervous for

54:19

these people anymore. When I see you, I

54:21

am 22 years old again. I

54:25

know. I know. You were here for me

54:27

when he was 22 years old and

54:30

did a great job.

54:31

Let's try to keep this honest.

54:35

So, Secretary Clinton, on Thursday,

54:38

the Department of Justice indicted former President

54:40

Donald Trump. You're kidding. I know. Well,

54:43

if you haven't seen it, all right. But

54:46

did you have any reaction to the news or are you

54:48

keeping your powder dry in case you get jury duty in

54:50

New York?

54:51

Well,

54:56

you know, John, I have a lot

54:58

of reactions to it. And

55:02

I think the best reaction

55:05

publicly is, you know, let's see

55:07

it unfold and see what happens,

55:09

right? Well, I think that's a perfect

55:11

answer. So, we have a shirt for

55:13

you and says, just in case, it

55:16

says, totally impartial potential juror.

55:18

And

55:21

we thought, you know, you don't have to wear it, but just

55:23

in case. This is so

55:25

great. I love this. It's like a totally

55:28

chill thing to wear jury selection. But,

55:30

you know, you even put his nickname for me

55:32

down at the bottom. Crooked. That's

55:35

perfect. That's exactly

55:37

right. Now, onto

55:41

the matter at hand. Can we go

55:43

to this photo, please? Is

55:47

this how you would store top secret

55:49

documents? Are they perhaps a little

55:51

too close to the commode?

55:54

Yeah, I thought that was in dangerous

55:57

territory. Right. Yeah. But,

56:01

so Republicans have taken to the airwaves

56:04

in response to these charges and they've

56:06

come to one conclusion. We must prosecute

56:08

Hillary Clinton. When

56:12

in doubt, right? Right.

56:19

Republicans claim

56:22

that you got off, you did the same

56:24

thing and got off scot-free. Why did your

56:26

friend Jim Comey let you off

56:29

so easy?

56:31

That's a really good question. I can't figure

56:33

that one out. You know, I

56:36

do think it's

56:39

odd, let's just say, to the

56:41

point of being absurd, how

56:44

that is their only response. You know, they

56:46

refuse to read the indictment, they refuse

56:48

to engage with the facts, there's nothing new about

56:51

that. And what they refuse

56:53

to admit is, you

56:55

know, this is on a track about

56:57

him, not about anybody else. No

56:59

matter how much they try

57:02

to confuse people and how much they try

57:04

to, you know, raise extraneous issues.

57:07

And it's going to be

57:09

fascinating, I guess, in a bizarre

57:11

and sad way to watch

57:14

them spin themselves up. If you watched any

57:16

of the news programs this weekend, I mean,

57:18

their efforts to defend this man

57:20

are truly beyond

57:23

anything that I ever thought possible

57:26

in our country. I mean, it

57:28

is so profoundly

57:31

disturbing how this

57:33

could have been the break. This could have

57:35

been the opportunity to say, you know, thank

57:38

you so much for everything you've done for us, we

57:40

really appreciate it, you know. But

57:43

this is kind of serious,

57:45

and so we're not going to continue

57:48

to defend you. But no, they're all in

57:50

again. That's what the psychology

57:52

of this is so hard for me

57:54

to fully grasp.

57:56

Yeah, I mean, you know, to

57:59

your point, it does. It does seem like Donald

58:01

Trump is leading in every poll. Every

58:03

bad thing that happens to him seems to solidify

58:06

his hold on the base and members of Congress. And

58:08

ironically,

58:09

him being so corrupt, him

58:12

being such a venal, awful

58:14

person, makes it hard for Democrats

58:17

to run against him, because there's

58:19

so many different avenues we could all be taken.

58:23

You experienced this firsthand in 2016. If

58:26

he is the Republican nominee, do you have any advice

58:29

for President Biden about how to focus

58:31

a message against him?

58:32

I was listening to your previous

58:35

discussion about this, and I think you have it

58:37

exactly right.

58:40

It seems likely right now that he will end

58:42

up the nominee. I mean, something can

58:45

happen between now and when they start

58:47

actually voting in the primary. But the

58:50

Republican rules, as you know, favor

58:52

winner, take all. So the more people who

58:54

get in against him, his chances actually

58:56

go up. And then the response

58:59

that we've seen in polling from Republicans

59:02

suggests that they're going to stick with him, that it's

59:05

more of a cult than a political party

59:07

at this point, and they're going to stick with their

59:09

leader.

59:10

So I think that actually

59:13

President Biden is in a very

59:15

strong position to

59:18

run a campaign that doesn't have

59:20

to talk about him. But I think other Democrats

59:23

should, and other concerned

59:25

Americans should, be asking hard questions.

59:28

But to talk about the kind of future

59:31

that builds on

59:33

his accomplishments. I have said now

59:36

for months that Joe

59:38

Biden had a remarkable first two

59:41

years as president.

59:42

I don't think he gets the credit for it.

59:44

And in part, that's because he's not a

59:46

performer. He's a producer. He

59:49

gets up every day, and he goes to work for the American

59:51

people. And so

59:54

in

59:56

a time where in

59:59

politics.

59:59

not just in our country but elsewhere in

1:00:02

the world, entertainment

1:00:04

is really important and the shock

1:00:07

factor and the insult

1:00:09

factor and the scapegoating

1:00:12

and the finger pointing, he's really

1:00:15

not doing it and he is very

1:00:17

careful about how he tries to present

1:00:19

himself. I think that contrast

1:00:22

is important, his accomplishments are important,

1:00:25

and trying to get people to focus on,

1:00:27

okay when the circus leaves town,

1:00:29

what's your life gonna be like?

1:00:32

How are you going to feel

1:00:35

about your future and your family's

1:00:37

future and the big challenges

1:00:39

that we have here at home and around the world?

1:00:42

And I think that's the way to

1:00:45

present a strong,

1:00:48

incumbent campaign against

1:00:50

Trump.

1:00:54

Speaking of corrupt authoritarian narcissists,

1:00:58

I wanted to ask you about Vladimir Putin. I

1:01:00

heard you tell this unbelievable

1:01:03

story about a conversation you had with Vladimir

1:01:05

Putin several years back where

1:01:07

he told you about his parents, Putin's

1:01:10

father fought in the siege

1:01:12

of Stalingrad for those who don't know, it was one of

1:01:14

the most horrific battles of World War II, hundreds of

1:01:16

thousands if not billions of people died. And

1:01:19

I was hoping you could just tell that story in

1:01:21

how you make sense of

1:01:23

a man like Vladimir Putin

1:01:26

who hears about this experience from

1:01:28

his father of being sort of thrust into a

1:01:31

military meat grinder and then does the

1:01:33

exact same thing to his own people in

1:01:35

Bakhmut, in Chechnya,

1:01:38

over the years as leader.

1:01:40

Tommy, it was a really

1:01:42

extraordinary moment. He

1:01:46

started attacking me back in 2011 and

1:01:49

he accused me of

1:01:51

being responsible for Russians demanding

1:01:54

more freedom and free

1:01:57

and fair elections because they'd had a... a

1:02:01

series of elections in the fall

1:02:03

of 2011 that were, you know, so

1:02:07

rigged that you could watch it being rigged on TV. That's

1:02:10

what Russians were responding to. So

1:02:13

fast forward, there's a big meeting of

1:02:16

a number of nations called APEC, it's

1:02:19

the Asian Pacific Economic Community

1:02:21

Meeting, and it's held every year, and I went representing

1:02:24

our country, and I wanted

1:02:26

to talk to Putin one more time about Syria,

1:02:28

and he wouldn't talk to me, and

1:02:30

so then

1:02:32

we're about ready to go into the formal dinner,

1:02:35

and I

1:02:37

get pulled aside for like literally five minutes

1:02:39

where I'm telling him, you know, we had

1:02:42

a deal on a ceasefire a few months ago, we

1:02:44

need to reinstate that deal, and he's looking bored,

1:02:46

like, you know, why are you talking to me about stopping

1:02:49

the killing of Syrians? And then

1:02:51

we went into dinner.

1:02:53

Now, the last thing Vladimir Putin

1:02:55

wanted was to sit next to me at dinner. So

1:02:59

the protocol was he had to

1:03:01

sit next to me, because

1:03:03

the United States had

1:03:05

hosted the meeting before, and on his other side

1:03:07

was Indonesian president hosting the

1:03:09

next meeting. So I'm sitting there thinking, well,

1:03:11

you know, I gotta think of something

1:03:13

to talk to him about, he won't talk to me about

1:03:15

Syria, that's clear. So

1:03:18

I said, you know, Mr.

1:03:20

President, before I came, I stopped in St.

1:03:22

Petersburg for some meetings, and

1:03:25

I went to the museum commemorating

1:03:27

the siege of Stalingrad, and, you

1:03:30

know, I just wanted to, you

1:03:32

know, tell you how much it meant to me that

1:03:34

I actually had a chance to see that.

1:03:36

All of a sudden he got, you know, sort of sat up

1:03:39

straighter, got kind of interested, he said, let me tell

1:03:41

you a story, and here's what he told me.

1:03:45

He said, you know, my father was in

1:03:47

the siege, and they

1:03:50

would

1:03:50

be on the front lines for three

1:03:52

or four days, and they would get,

1:03:54

you know, some time off. So

1:03:57

he had time off, Putin's father, Putin's

1:03:59

father was walking. walking back to their apartment.

1:04:02

And he walked past a pile

1:04:04

of bodies because they

1:04:06

were trying to prevent plague and

1:04:08

other diseases from decimating

1:04:11

the population even further. So they

1:04:13

had body collectors. And they

1:04:15

were collecting bodies to burn, to bury.

1:04:19

So as Putin's father is walking by

1:04:21

this pile of bodies, he looks down and

1:04:23

he sees what he believes to be his

1:04:25

wife's

1:04:26

leg with her shoe on, which

1:04:29

he recognized.

1:04:30

And he just reacts. He goes

1:04:32

over. He starts trying to pull this body

1:04:35

out of the pile of bodies. And the body collector

1:04:37

is screaming at him, stop it. Stop it. Get

1:04:39

away from there. And he says, no, no, that's

1:04:41

my wife. That's my wife. I know it's my wife.

1:04:44

And he keeps trying to pull her out. And finally,

1:04:46

the body collector said, well, just take her. Take her body.

1:04:48

But then you have to return it. You have to get rid

1:04:50

of the body. So he took her and she was

1:04:52

alive.

1:04:54

And he took her back to

1:04:57

their apartment. And nursed

1:04:59

her back to health. And then a few years later,

1:05:01

Vladimir Putin was born. So

1:05:05

he tells me this story. And I'm sitting there thinking,

1:05:08

wow, this explained

1:05:10

so much. Think

1:05:13

about this story. And think about the

1:05:16

trauma that

1:05:19

his family and so many Russian families

1:05:21

went through. And in

1:05:23

some people, that kind of trauma makes

1:05:26

them feel like never

1:05:28

again, no war. We have to be

1:05:30

more compassionate and caring.

1:05:32

We have to help people. And in some

1:05:34

people, it

1:05:36

makes them think, I'm going to be on the

1:05:38

side that wins. The people

1:05:40

who die are going to be the people that I

1:05:42

don't want to see living

1:05:45

or doing, because we're going to have

1:05:48

a different future.

1:05:50

And when you think about Putin and

1:05:52

the way that for so many years,

1:05:54

his absolute

1:05:57

prevailing conviction has been the need for

1:05:59

a better future. to restore Russian greatness.

1:06:02

He thought the collapse of the Soviet Union was

1:06:05

a catastrophe in his own words.

1:06:08

And it's

1:06:09

almost like he found

1:06:11

Mother Russia dying when

1:06:14

he took over. And

1:06:16

he's going to bring it back to life. And

1:06:18

bringing it back to life means asserting

1:06:21

its power, its domination,

1:06:23

its strength.

1:06:25

And taking over

1:06:28

everywhere you can, people who are

1:06:30

weaker, starting in Russia itself,

1:06:33

then moving on to Chechnya, and

1:06:36

now moving on to Georgia

1:06:38

in 2008, then moving

1:06:40

first to Ukraine in 2014, and

1:06:42

then now

1:06:43

what we see happening

1:06:45

there. And it just spoke

1:06:48

to me about what was really going

1:06:50

on in Putin's mind

1:06:53

and what we're now facing in Ukraine and

1:06:56

what we would face if we don't stop

1:06:58

him in Ukraine. Just

1:07:02

an incredible window into Putin's mindset.

1:07:06

I'm just letting the, I'm changing tack

1:07:08

so hard there's going to be weather in

1:07:12

this room. Before

1:07:17

we let you go, we

1:07:20

do have to get you on the record on some of the issues that really don't

1:07:22

matter.

1:07:23

So now it's time for a

1:07:25

game we call Queen for a Day.

1:07:26

Now, you

1:07:29

haven't seen these questions. Really haven't.

1:07:31

But today we have a twist. Tommy hasn't

1:07:33

seen them either. So does

1:07:35

he have to answer some? He has to ask some

1:07:38

of you. Exercise,

1:07:41

discretion, Tommy. Yes, I will, I will. All

1:07:43

right, I'll kick us off. You

1:07:45

can only see one Broadway show over and over

1:07:47

for the rest of your life.

1:07:49

Do you choose Funny Girl, Wicked, Chicago,

1:07:51

or Hamilton? Hamilton. Really?

1:07:56

I'd have said Wicked. I'd have said Wicked.

1:08:00

Tommy, you're up.

1:08:03

Again, Tommy is seeing this for the first time.

1:08:06

If you were to meet me on the street, you'd say,

1:08:08

Republican, 100%, take it to the bank. Look

1:08:11

at him. How can

1:08:13

we use this power for good? Where should

1:08:15

I infiltrate? Where

1:08:18

do you think we see? Where should we send them? Look

1:08:20

at him. Look at this. Look at that

1:08:23

shirt. I think he's doing

1:08:25

a good job infiltrating. I

1:08:29

already thought of that. Maybe he's

1:08:31

coming from the other side. Next

1:08:33

question.

1:08:34

As a journalist, I have to ask this. There

1:08:37

was a story... It's going to be tough to look at you while I

1:08:39

say this. There was a story that someone

1:08:41

took a poop in the aisle next to your seats during

1:08:43

a Broadway performance of Some Like It Hot.

1:08:46

Were you relieved when you found that it wasn't personal

1:08:48

or is that somehow worse? Well,

1:08:53

I didn't know it happened until after I found... Everybody

1:08:56

wrote about it, but

1:08:59

at the time, you know, I was

1:09:01

just sitting in my seat watching

1:09:04

what was happening because I thought it was

1:09:06

a fun, funny play, so I didn't

1:09:09

even know it happened. That

1:09:11

says something about me, I guess. I

1:09:14

just think, I guess you know what? You've waited through a lot of shit in your

1:09:16

life. What's new,

1:09:18

right? Tommy, you're up.

1:09:22

She was the Secretary of State, everybody. When

1:09:25

your show, Gutsy, virtually all the

1:09:28

brave people are women, is that a coincidence

1:09:30

or no first sight?

1:09:39

No, that was deliberate. He's

1:09:42

obviously deliberate, Tommy. It's

1:09:44

a strange... Thank you for answering directly. Strange question.

1:09:48

Are you auditioning, John?

1:09:51

I might, I might. You know,

1:09:53

backstage, Secretary Clinton said,

1:09:57

well, you said, I like the skirt, but...

1:10:00

I wasn't sure it went with the shoes. Okay. Mmm.

1:10:04

That's fine. That's, see,

1:10:06

that's the kind of, that's the Secretary

1:10:08

of State that just wanted, on a diplomatic fashion,

1:10:10

to get me on my heels. You

1:10:12

know, make me nervous before you came out so that you

1:10:14

could win on stage. Wow.

1:10:18

That's... It's

1:10:22

withering. You were

1:10:25

captured on a surveillance camera ordering a Chipotle

1:10:27

burrito bowl in 2015.

1:10:29

Chipotle famously experienced an E. coli

1:10:32

outbreak later that year. There

1:10:34

are two kinds of people in the world, people who steered

1:10:36

clear of Chipotle for a while after the outbreak

1:10:38

just to be safe, or people who felt post-outbreak

1:10:41

Chipotle is probably the safest it will ever be.

1:10:44

Do you see the glasses half

1:10:46

empty or half

1:10:48

a-coli? I don't... You

1:10:53

know, I was just happy they got back on their feet,

1:10:55

so to speak. Okay.

1:11:00

Tommy. You have two

1:11:02

buttons in front of you. One will instantly erase

1:11:04

every American student debt, while the other will

1:11:06

cause Donald Trump to shrink an imperceptible

1:11:08

amount every day so that by November

1:11:11

he fits in Joe Biden's shirt pocket. You

1:11:13

can... You can only press

1:11:15

one button.

1:11:17

Student debt. All

1:11:21

right. We have

1:11:23

one more question for you. The

1:11:25

State Department released the following email.

1:11:27

We have it on the screen.

1:11:29

You sent it on Friday, March 5,

1:11:31

2010, to Assistant Secretary of State for Legislative

1:11:34

Affairs Richard Verma and then Deputy Chief

1:11:36

of Staff Jake Sullivan, my old pal. The

1:11:38

subject line was, gefilte fish. The

1:11:42

body of the email read, where are we

1:11:44

on this?

1:11:48

So where were we on this? You

1:11:51

know, that's why, if anybody actually read

1:11:54

my emails, instead

1:11:56

of just listened to all the talk about it, this was

1:11:59

a serious... problem that we

1:12:01

had to solve. There was

1:12:03

a real difficult challenge

1:12:06

with getting one of the manufacturers

1:12:09

of gefilte fish in Israel

1:12:13

the appropriate permitting

1:12:16

to be able for them to export

1:12:19

their fish in time for

1:12:21

Passover. See

1:12:28

that's why it's bullshit

1:12:31

that you weren't president. Ladies

1:12:34

and gentlemen Secretary of

1:12:36

State Hillary Clinton. Thank you so

1:12:39

much.

1:12:44

Thank you.

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1:14:13

Please welcome to the stage the incredibly funny

1:14:15

Roy Wood Jr. How

1:14:22

are you? Thanks for being here. Right there.

1:14:27

Yeah, this is my microphone. I'll take

1:14:29

this one. How you been? How you doing? I'm

1:14:31

okay. You see Hillary Clinton? I'm okay. Yeah,

1:14:33

yeah. I spoke briefly back there. That, that,

1:14:35

what she was wearing, that's some nice fabrics. Yes.

1:14:38

So did she... You ever look at politicians

1:14:40

up close? Like the fabrics, it's not, it's

1:14:43

not Macy's. It's

1:14:45

not Macy's. It's some nice stuff. Sometimes you get some nice

1:14:48

fabrics. She got security

1:14:50

back there. You just can't walk up and go, ooh, what is it? I

1:14:53

don't think even if there wasn't security, you shouldn't

1:14:55

be touching other people's fabrics. You shouldn't need

1:14:57

a secret service agent to stop you. But it's not Macy's. It's like

1:14:59

NASA. It's like, how could you not? It's

1:15:02

like one of those, yeah, it's a future, yeah,

1:15:03

for sure. Future fabrics. Breeds. You

1:15:06

headlined the Correspondent Center this year and you did an incredible

1:15:08

job. Thank you. I

1:15:10

appreciate that. It's

1:15:13

famously a tough job because you're,

1:15:16

you're following the President

1:15:18

of the United States. What

1:15:21

surprised you about being up there? And

1:15:23

what do you think of Joe Biden's set?

1:15:25

Joe Biden crushed. Which

1:15:30

is not a good thing. Because

1:15:33

as the comedian coming after the person who's

1:15:36

not the comedian, who's as hilarious as

1:15:38

a comedian, now my

1:15:40

job just became 10 times harder. He was

1:15:42

doing bits and like

1:15:45

while he's up there,

1:15:47

I'm texting with my writers. I got four or

1:15:49

five writers that are in the room. We had six writers, but like four

1:15:51

or five are like in the room. And we're texting

1:15:53

the whole time the show is going on, watching the

1:15:55

room, they're watching Twitter. So we can be as

1:15:58

up in the moment with the set. And

1:16:01

Biden did two bits that

1:16:03

just were funnier, that he had a Rupert

1:16:05

Murdoch joke that was just way better than my Rupert

1:16:08

Murdoch joke. Hey, come on. Don't say that.

1:16:10

It was, and also, the Biden's age is closer

1:16:12

to Rupert's. I don't know if anybody's close to Rupert

1:16:15

in age, but

1:16:18

it was more of a like old on old crime

1:16:20

type joke. Right,

1:16:23

right, right. Whereas I come up after

1:16:25

him, I don't have the same place to call Rupert,

1:16:28

because Biden's already done it, and it's funnier

1:16:30

because Biden's old. Because Biden's old.

1:16:32

Correct. They're both old. So I'm texting,

1:16:35

what are we gonna replace Rupert with? And then it's like

1:16:37

another, Fauci's in the room, we need a

1:16:39

Fauci joke, come on.

1:16:42

All while Jill Biden is just in your ear talking

1:16:44

about Alabama barbecue and stuff. Is that

1:16:47

what happened? We were talking like most of

1:16:49

the time, not when Biden was up there, but like the entire

1:16:51

time of the dinner, it's weird

1:16:54

because you are, as a performer,

1:16:56

it's one

1:16:58

of the most, like

1:16:59

the only thing I can compare it to is Showtime

1:17:02

at the Apollo in 2001, in

1:17:04

terms of the stakes of the performance.

1:17:07

And while you're trying to focus and think

1:17:10

about this thing, and you're

1:17:12

not trying to be rude, but it's

1:17:14

the first lady, how could you not have a conversation

1:17:16

with the first lady? She's right in the Korean jumpy ass

1:17:18

right here. This is the first black LGBT, oh,

1:17:21

wait, excuse me a second. Fauci, I

1:17:23

need a Fauci joke.

1:17:25

Bill Barr is in

1:17:27

the room. Yeah, see, Alabama barbecue

1:17:29

is better than North Carolina barbecue. Like

1:17:33

that's what's happening. Leave me alone, Vice President

1:17:35

Kamala Harris. I've got a set to do. Yeah. This

1:17:38

is my big night. You can't do that. You just have

1:17:40

to go, yeah, it's an honor. Did I just see Caitlyn

1:17:42

Jenner in there?

1:17:44

There's also, I'd say, one

1:17:46

of the most sort of touching moments I've seen

1:17:48

in any standup at

1:17:51

the correspondence, which when we talked about your

1:17:53

mom being there, she must have been proud.

1:17:55

Yeah, she doesn't, she's

1:17:58

a woman that doesn't really like it. the spotlight.

1:18:01

She's not big on that, but you

1:18:04

know the more we looked at what we wanted to talk

1:18:06

about with regards to local news and local media

1:18:09

and how much of a role local

1:18:11

media plays in breaking stories.

1:18:14

I mean just today the athletic just reassigned

1:18:16

and you know a lot of a lot of reporters

1:18:19

and gonna take them off the beats that are very very

1:18:21

important in this country. So my

1:18:24

mother was one of the people in Mississippi in

1:18:26

the 1960s that helped to integrate

1:18:28

Delta State University. She was the first

1:18:31

wave of black people that were part

1:18:33

of that and they went through hell and

1:18:35

the only reason we know that they went through hell is

1:18:37

because of local reporters and so you

1:18:39

know my mother and her story a lot

1:18:42

of it is known because of local

1:18:44

reporters and I just wanted people in the room

1:18:46

to see that the work matters

1:18:50

and that

1:18:51

good journalism at a local level matters

1:18:53

and you know it was framed in a way

1:18:55

as this praise

1:18:58

for

1:18:59

journalists but to me I was

1:19:02

trying to activate all of the people

1:19:04

that run these newsrooms and the people that are in charge

1:19:06

of all of the layoffs, the people that may triple

1:19:09

and four times and ten times and twenty times

1:19:11

the people that they're laying off make

1:19:14

so that as we go through this next

1:19:16

you know and I hate to say this but I

1:19:19

feel like media this summer we're still looking

1:19:22

at more contraction across a lot of outlets

1:19:24

and the people who are going

1:19:26

to be in charge of making those cuts and those

1:19:29

decisions they were in that room that night

1:19:31

so it was more for them

1:19:34

than the people who do the job.

1:19:38

I think

1:19:42

it's interesting that you know I've heard you talk

1:19:44

about sort of thinking about the people that are in

1:19:46

the room and the people that aren't in the room and you talk about

1:19:48

this a little bit when you're touring

1:19:51

you know

1:19:52

Pod Save America, The Daily Show,

1:19:55

a lot of times

1:19:57

it's a sometimes it can be a conversation amongst

1:19:59

people. who are in on the joke. And we try to

1:20:01

bring people in and make it entertaining and make it something

1:20:04

people will find kind of as an onboard

1:20:06

for people to kind of pay attention to politics. But

1:20:09

at the same time, you know, when you're out

1:20:11

on the road, you're talking to people that aren't paying attention

1:20:13

to the news nearly as much. Maybe

1:20:16

they're not liberal or conservative. They're just not paying

1:20:19

attention or as engaged as maybe somebody

1:20:21

that's watching The Daily Show a couple nights a week. How

1:20:24

does that perspective from sort

1:20:26

of when you're on the road doing stand up, when you're touring,

1:20:29

come back

1:20:29

and affect how you think about how to do these things

1:20:32

when you're saying on television? I think

1:20:35

a lot of us are single issue voters.

1:20:38

The uninformed, the more casual

1:20:40

political constituent

1:20:43

is a single issue voter, or they're just

1:20:45

caring about the things that affect

1:20:47

them at a state and local level. And I

1:20:50

think what I try to do at The Daily

1:20:52

Show, and you know, I got to give, you know, Trevor

1:20:54

Noah credit for this that it was about, yeah,

1:20:57

shout out to Trevor.

1:21:00

This idea

1:21:03

of finding a national, it's

1:21:05

a national issue,

1:21:07

but let's tell it locally. So

1:21:09

if you look at a lot of the issues that

1:21:11

I've tried to cover on the show, more

1:21:14

often than not, we just want to talk to one person that's

1:21:16

being affected by this and show you how it connects

1:21:18

to the bigger conversation as a whole. So,

1:21:21

you know, with stand up, it's difficult

1:21:23

because

1:21:25

I'm still at a point where there's about 70% of the

1:21:28

audience that knows what they're getting with me and 30%

1:21:32

who's seeing me for the first time. And

1:21:34

I almost have to figure out how,

1:21:36

like just last week I was

1:21:39

in Hartford, Connecticut, it's a pretty blue collar

1:21:41

comedy club, the Funny Bone. And so that's

1:21:44

a club

1:21:45

where I will put politics

1:21:48

a little deeper

1:21:49

in my act. I won't lead off with it.

1:21:51

But if I come out and I go,

1:21:53

don't we all hate self check out? I don't work

1:21:55

at this store.

1:21:57

That's

1:22:01

unifying. That's unifying. It brings everybody together.

1:22:03

We all, the checkout, the self checkout

1:22:05

overlord who comes over and berates you for

1:22:08

scanning. We're all like,

1:22:09

you start with that and then you

1:22:12

slip in gun control. But even when

1:22:14

I start talking about guns, it's

1:22:16

a me thing.

1:22:18

And so more often than not, I

1:22:20

find it easier when I'm on the road and performing,

1:22:24

if I want to address an issue,

1:22:26

I localize it to myself. My uncle owns

1:22:28

guns. I talk about an experience we had in a gun

1:22:30

store and then you tie that into a bigger

1:22:32

conversation about mental health. But I start

1:22:35

with the me, whereas with the daily show, I

1:22:37

can start with the world. I can

1:22:39

show a mirror to the world. Whereas in

1:22:42

comedy, you're kind of watching me

1:22:44

look at myself

1:22:45

and through that learning about the world. Are

1:22:48

you ever on the road, maybe it's a crowd that's, sees

1:22:51

a little bit towards just, they came out that night and

1:22:53

you happen to be there and you start

1:22:55

telling a story. Oh, my first 10 years of comedy? Is that what you're

1:22:57

talking about? In Alabama, yes,

1:23:00

continue. But

1:23:02

you started to talk about something that's happening in the news

1:23:05

and you're like, oh, I

1:23:06

am so online. Nobody here

1:23:08

knows what the fuck I'm talking about. They don't know. And

1:23:11

they don't care because those things, those

1:23:14

things that we obsess over, that

1:23:16

we think are the biggest political

1:23:19

story of the day, the Chinese spy

1:23:21

balloon thing was a quick here and bye

1:23:23

thing. There are a lot of

1:23:25

us that are aware of foreign politics

1:23:27

and things that are going on in the world, but people

1:23:30

that are living check to check and struggling,

1:23:33

it's hard for them to care about

1:23:36

what's happening in Ukraine.

1:23:38

And it's not that they don't care. It's just that you

1:23:40

don't know how that connects to everything

1:23:42

else with the American economy

1:23:45

and troops getting deployed and troops getting over

1:23:47

there and wars way more expensive than

1:23:49

the money we're sending for aid and support.

1:23:52

So you can't boil that down

1:23:54

for someone who is literally

1:23:57

just trying to get their kids into

1:23:59

a decent school. or just trying to stay employed.

1:24:01

So more often than not, when

1:24:04

you're at a comedy club in a

1:24:06

red state,

1:24:08

it's escapist. It's

1:24:10

an escapist experience for the average

1:24:12

comedy club goer. But if I'm in San

1:24:15

Francisco, or if I'm in Atlanta,

1:24:17

or like a purple or a blue stronghold,

1:24:21

it's communal.

1:24:23

And you can still talk about other things,

1:24:25

and you can still even be a little more edgy. But

1:24:28

people come to commiserate and

1:24:30

almost have a group hug, whereas in

1:24:33

the red parts of the country, people

1:24:36

don't want to hear about that. I just want to laugh. But it's my

1:24:38

job to go, no, you need to know about

1:24:40

this. But I have to figure out a way

1:24:42

to couch that in something that's a little bit

1:24:44

more

1:24:46

palatable to start. Well,

1:24:49

speaking of red state comedy, the

1:24:51

Republican primary is ramping up. The

1:24:54

field is taking shape. So actually, please

1:24:56

welcome back to the stage John, Dan, Alex, and

1:24:58

Tommy, who are going to join to play

1:25:00

a game with Roy. OK. Got

1:25:03

a game. Everybody

1:25:06

got a mic?

1:25:11

John, you go there. Great.

1:25:14

This

1:25:15

all worked out? Did everybody go? Everybody worked out? That

1:25:17

all happened seamlessly? Yeah. I didn't even

1:25:19

need to talk about it. You did it. Roy,

1:25:22

thank you for being here, by the way. I'm happy to be here. This

1:25:24

is a thrill. I'm a fan of the

1:25:27

show. So

1:25:30

it's time for a game we call the Mess America

1:25:32

Passion.

1:25:35

Rhonda sanctimonious.

1:25:38

That's it. You

1:25:40

think it was longer. It's not. That's distinct. Players,

1:25:44

I'm going to divide you up into teams. And you'll go toe to

1:25:46

toe to see who can tell these desperate loser goofballs

1:25:48

apart. Alex and Roy, you'll

1:25:50

be a team. The other team. I like

1:25:52

our odds. We'll be my sweet, sweet boys. All

1:26:06

right, let me start with Roy and Alex. Your first question,

1:26:08

which candidate

1:26:09

made their spouse change their name saying

1:26:11

they just didn't look like their original

1:26:13

name? Oh, Ron. Ron

1:26:16

DeSantis. It feels like a Ron.

1:26:19

It's a Ron. DeSantis DeSantis.

1:26:21

That's incorrect.

1:26:22

You guys want

1:26:24

to steal it? Could you repeat the question? A candidate

1:26:27

made their spouse change their name because

1:26:29

they just didn't look like their spouse

1:26:32

changed their name.

1:26:33

They just didn't look like their original name.

1:26:36

I have no idea. What

1:26:38

are our options here? Who? I'm

1:26:41

going to need an answer. Do we get to workshop it or do we just have to guess?

1:26:46

Let's just guess one. What do you think? Pence?

1:26:49

No. Not

1:26:51

her name. All right, Chrissy. That

1:26:53

was a weird thing. Mickey Healy maybe? Mickey

1:26:57

Healy. Correct. Ah. According

1:27:00

to a profile in Vogue, Healy persuaded Michael,

1:27:03

Nate William, to start going by his middle

1:27:05

name after they started dating because he

1:27:07

looked more like a Michael.

1:27:08

The profile also

1:27:11

says that he's more easy going. Also,

1:27:13

also just a little news here. Dan showed me a tweet

1:27:15

backstage. Mickey Healy called Trump

1:27:18

reckless with national security. Wow. We're

1:27:21

teaming up. Come on. There you go.

1:27:23

Mickey Healy. There you go. RIP,

1:27:26

Mickey Healy. All

1:27:29

right. Question number two. Let's

1:27:30

start with John Dan Tommy.

1:27:33

Fill in the blank. When introducing this candidate in Iowa,

1:27:35

House Speaker Todd Houston said, I read

1:27:38

that blank can be like mayonnaise on toast.

1:27:40

Mike Pence. You got

1:27:43

it. You got it. He also added, but there's a lot of

1:27:45

Iowa bacon and maybe a little Tabasco

1:27:47

sauce on that toast. I

1:27:49

don't know how many of that. I don't know how many of that. Who

1:27:51

here puts mayonnaise on toast?

1:27:54

I've heard of mayo for grilled cheese, the sub for

1:27:56

butter. I've heard of that, but I've never just.

1:27:58

Yeah,

1:27:58

that's a trick. But just mayo just

1:28:01

cold out the fridge. Mayonnaise

1:28:03

on toast. No, oh no. Never cold on toast.

1:28:05

Okay. On a grilled cheese, yes. Yeah,

1:28:08

okay. We warm it up. The point is, like Mike Pence,

1:28:11

no one likes it. Yeah. Yeah,

1:28:13

right. Yeah, that's

1:28:14

true. Alex and Roy, speaking of someone no one likes, this candidate

1:28:17

reportedly wore earbuds on the house

1:28:19

floor so he wouldn't have to talk to people.

1:28:22

Oh. Earbuds

1:28:27

on the house floor. Former member of

1:28:29

the house. Former member

1:28:31

of the house. So they wouldn't have to talk to people.

1:28:33

Because they just didn't like talking to people. Well,

1:28:35

but isn't that Rhonda Santos who doesn't like, every answer

1:28:38

is going to be Rhonda Santos? That

1:28:40

sounds like some Chris Christie shit, but he wasn't

1:28:42

a member of the house. Rhonda Santos was a member of the

1:28:44

house. Rhonda

1:28:52

Santos. We're going to be Rhonda Santos. Every

1:28:56

answer will be Rhonda Santos for now. Which

1:28:59

candidate

1:29:01

hosted an online talk show in his bathrobe

1:29:03

called Robe Rage? Yeah,

1:29:05

that's right, Tommy. Dan, John. Robe

1:29:08

Rage. Robe Rage. Robe Rage. Like

1:29:12

Larry Elder, maybe?

1:29:14

It's not, what's

1:29:18

your guy's name from North Dakota? There's a fringe one that I'm not thinking about? Doug

1:29:20

Burgum. Doug Burgum? Doesn't sound like Doug

1:29:22

Burgum to me. Nothing sounds

1:29:24

like Doug Burgum to me.

1:29:28

I mean, it's got a Larry Elder, I guess, right? I

1:29:30

don't know, someone who's been

1:29:32

had a show thrown out there. Chris Christie wouldn't have done

1:29:34

that, would he? I hope not. Let's

1:29:37

go with Larry Elder. Correct. Yes. Larry

1:29:40

Elder.

1:29:41

All right. Oh yeah,

1:29:43

Larry Elder did have, yeah. Robe Rage.

1:29:46

I can see it. This

1:29:49

is only Republican. Yeah, these are the Republicans. I

1:29:51

was going to guess Marianne

1:29:53

Williamson for the steal. That's a good one. She

1:29:56

would do that. I think it's cool that Marianne

1:29:58

Williamson is like a...

1:29:59

but then the story breaks that she got so angry at

1:30:02

her staff, she beat a car window. Mindfully.

1:30:04

Mindfully. But she was very present. Roy

1:30:07

and Alex, who praised Trump during

1:30:10

their book tour, saying, in every instance I dealt with

1:30:12

him, he was

1:30:14

truthful, he listened, and he was great to

1:30:16

work with.

1:30:19

Ron. Never mind. Nikki

1:30:21

Haley. Yeah, that's gotta be Nikki Haley. Who

1:30:23

worked with him? Pence. Nikki

1:30:26

Haley. Pence wouldn't say. When did they say

1:30:29

this quote? This is before

1:30:31

or after January 6. That's

1:30:34

a really great question. That's a great question. Not on the card. Okay.

1:30:38

Because you know it ain't Pence on January 7.

1:30:39

Yeah. Well, after they erect

1:30:41

the gallows. Yeah. I feel like Nikki

1:30:43

Haley. Let's say Nikki Haley. We'll say Nikki Haley.

1:30:46

You got it. Okay. Wow. In 2012,

1:30:51

this candidate was asked if he was still keeping a pledge

1:30:54

he made publicly ever since he was in public

1:30:56

life. He replied, not as well as

1:30:58

I did then.

1:30:59

Who is the candidate,

1:31:00

and what is the pledge?

1:31:03

The candidate is Tim Scott.

1:31:05

Yeah. And the pledge is to not

1:31:07

engage in sexual relations before he's

1:31:10

married. That's

1:31:12

correct. Wow. There

1:31:15

it is. He was 30 when he made the pledge

1:31:17

publicly. He was 46 when he was asked that question by

1:31:19

National Journal. That's your guy.

1:31:21

It's our guy. I

1:31:24

like that that was a question on the campaign trail.

1:31:26

Yeah. Did you get some ass? Yeah, she has Tim

1:31:29

Scott. Did

1:31:31

you say National Journal or National Enquirer?

1:31:35

That's a sort of like, I'm here today to talk about how

1:31:37

you fucking. We're

1:31:42

not going to listen to a word you say. None

1:31:45

of us can get past we're children. We

1:31:47

need to know Roy.

1:31:50

Is Tim Scott fucking? All right.

1:31:52

Roy and Alex, in 2003, a representative gave

1:31:54

a house floor speech celebrating Garfield the comic

1:31:57

saying I rise today in the midst of serious

1:31:59

debates and serious.

1:31:59

discussions to pay tribute to a very large

1:32:02

orange American tradition. Did

1:32:04

he ask for lasagna to get Mondays off too?

1:32:07

Garfield reference I guess not a lot of fans in the

1:32:09

audience. Remember

1:32:13

the house? Star feeling 2003 on the floor. Yeah

1:32:17

on the floor wait on the floor of the house I'll give you

1:32:19

he he may like certain cartoon characters but

1:32:21

he actually strongly dislikes others

1:32:24

and that was a big part of his persona at the time

1:32:27

he has a specific distaste from Mulan.

1:32:29

Oh oh wait who just tried

1:32:32

to ban Mulan? Was it Ron?

1:32:36

Hey candidate, it is candidate

1:32:39

Ron Fay. I mean 2003. You

1:32:41

want to say it? I don't want to say it. Was Ron?

1:32:44

Was Ron? No Ron wouldn't. Was

1:32:47

he was he in the house? Does he like Garfield? They don't

1:32:49

know. Don't

1:32:52

listen to them they don't know. I think you should just say it. Asa

1:32:55

Hutchinson. Oh it

1:32:57

was Mike Pence. Oh right of

1:32:59

course. You didn't give us the steal? Oh you want the steal?

1:33:02

Mike you can just edit it. You guys want the steal? You knew

1:33:04

it. Hutchinson was in Arkansas.

1:33:08

All right

1:33:09

John Dan Tommy who is such an unbelievable

1:33:11

kiss ass that they mentioned Trump positively 21 times

1:33:14

in a single debate while running for office.

1:33:18

This

1:33:18

feels very disanticy. Let's give Ron a santis.

1:33:21

Oh yeah. Sure

1:33:24

did. Ron DeSantis. You got it.

1:33:27

Alex and Roy whose staff said in private that this

1:33:29

candidate made more fun of Donald Trump than

1:33:32

anyone I know and thought Trump was fucking

1:33:34

nuts.

1:33:35

I mean that sounds like Chris Christie doesn't it? Yeah

1:33:38

that feels like a Chris Christie. We're

1:33:42

so tall but no it's not. I'm looking

1:33:44

that's not but he's saying no that's wrong. I'll give you a hint it

1:33:46

follows from the previous question. Like

1:33:51

Mike Pence? Like this? It's Ron DeSantis.

1:33:57

Come on. All

1:34:02

right. Anyone

1:34:05

can steal this now. This is the lightning round.

1:34:07

Okay. Which candidate said this in an op-ed,

1:34:09

time for a quick reality check. Despite

1:34:12

the hysteria from the political class in the media,

1:34:15

smoking doesn't kill.

1:34:17

Mike Pence. You got it. And

1:34:22

final question.

1:34:23

Which candidate recently told Mark

1:34:26

Leibovich,

1:34:27

I have regrets about every part of

1:34:29

my life. Chris Christie. You got

1:34:31

it. There you go. Listen,

1:34:33

we've run the numbers, not

1:34:36

even close. Roy and Alex have won the game.

1:34:38

What? Absolutely. Steal,

1:34:41

took it. Really? Oh,

1:34:44

that's so nice. It's an electoral college

1:34:46

thing. Okay. I'll

1:34:49

take that. Roy Wood Jr., everybody.

1:34:51

Thank

1:34:51

you so much for being here. That's

1:34:55

our show for tonight. Thanks to Roy Wood Jr., Alex Wagner. We'll see

1:34:57

you next

1:34:57

time. Thanks to Alex Wagner, Leticia

1:35:00

James, and Hillary Clinton. And thank you

1:35:02

guys for coming. Pods

1:35:14

of America is a Crooked Media production. The

1:35:17

executive producer is Michael Martinez.

1:35:19

Our producers are Andy Gardner Bernstein and

1:35:22

Olivia Martinez. It's mixed and

1:35:24

edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan

1:35:26

Cantor is our sound engineer with audio

1:35:28

support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis.

1:35:31

Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Madeline Herringer, Ari Schwartz,

1:35:33

Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.

1:35:36

And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe

1:35:38

Bradford, Mia Kelman, Ben Hefcoat,

1:35:40

and David Toles. Subscribe to Pods

1:35:43

of America on YouTube

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1:35:46

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1:35:50

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1:35:56

Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

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