0:00

Why is it that so many podcasters

0:02

and podcast guests are doing stuff

0:05

that doesn't work is often

0:07

boring and may even be damaging

0:10

to their personal brand and professional

0:12

future? Welcome to Podfluence,

0:14

the podcast that helps coaches and

0:16

speakers build professional authority

0:18

through podcasting. In

0:20

this episode, we're gonna take a look at some of the

0:23

bad advice out there and some of the things

0:25

that I see people doing

0:27

and have probably even done myself from time

0:29

to time. That doesn't work, especially

0:32

as a podcast guest who is

0:34

looking to build authority, become

0:37

known, and maybe even get invited back onto

0:39

some of the best podcasts. Okay,

0:54

let's start the show. Now. I can remember

0:57

being on my way home one time on the bus

0:59

that I've taken many times, passing through

1:01

the city center of Valencia where I live,

1:04

and we reached a stop by the train

1:06

station and everyone else

1:08

on the bus got off except for me

1:10

and the driver. Now the urge

1:12

to get up and get off the bus was so.

1:16

I almost did thinking, well, this

1:18

must be the final stop. Maybe for

1:20

some reason there had been no announcement

1:22

from the driver, and the driver wasn't telling

1:25

me to get off. I convinced

1:27

myself to stay put. The doors closed, the

1:29

bus carried on. We trust

1:32

the wisdom of the crowd, even

1:34

at times when we shouldn't. And

1:37

I see and hear it all the time

1:39

in podcasting. In

1:41

continuing with my series on the seven

1:44

deadly sins of podcasting, we Reach

1:46

number three, ignorance or what? Lack

1:48

of awareness. It's

1:50

an especially important one for podcasters because

1:53

most of us get into it without a clue

1:55

what we are doing at first, and

1:57

many will make the same mistakes that

1:59

I, myself and countless others. Of

2:02

thinking that if you're having fun and

2:04

enjoying it, then your audience will

2:06

too. I know I've said that and

2:08

I've heard many other people say it too.

2:11

This is a wild and unfounded

2:13

assumption, but I'm not gonna suggest that

2:15

you shouldn't enjoy your podcast experiences.

2:18

But let's take a look at the list so far. So

2:21

number one in our list of seven Deadly

2:23

podcast sins was gluttony, self-indulgence.

2:27

Number two was selfishness.

2:29

Number three is then ignorance

2:32

or lack of awareness that still

2:34

leads us with 4, 5, 6, and seven to

2:37

come and they will be following pretty

2:39

soon. So

2:41

we are not quite even halfway on

2:43

the list yet, but this issue may

2:45

be the one that I hear most commonly from

2:47

the podcasters that I speak with on

2:50

a daily basis. Whilst it's true

2:52

that you don't know what you don't, Ignorance

2:55

may allow for some short-term bliss,

2:57

but in the long run it becomes

2:59

painful. We don't want to put

3:02

in the work. We hate the long-term

3:04

process, and we just want

3:06

to sit down and hit record, but

3:09

that's rarely a recipe for

3:11

magic. It's more like the ingredients

3:13

for a casserole of mediocrity

3:16

that you'll be eating for every

3:18

meal. And maybe I need to ask

3:20

my friend Simon Lancaster for some

3:23

help with my metaphors here. So

3:25

he is ignorance bliss. Well, ignorance

3:27

allows others to take advantage of

3:29

us and it allows us to think that we're doing great

3:31

when we might actually be failing. Choosing

3:35

not to learn the ropes or receive

3:37

any feedback on what you do or

3:39

how to improve it is gonna culminate

3:42

in one massive reality check

3:44

that will pull the rug from under you, and

3:46

make you feel like the fool you hadn't

3:49

realized you were, if you don't hit

3:51

pod fade before them. I've

3:54

had some similar experiences in public

3:56

speaking. It can be humiliating

3:59

and most people will lose their

4:01

drive and maybe even quit after

4:03

an experience like that. So, how

4:06

do our brains work against us?

4:08

Well, our brains are complicated

4:10

things, but that doesn't always mean

4:13

that we are complicated beings.

4:15

The brain uses a lot of energy each

4:18

day, about 20% of

4:20

our energy reserves even in a resting

4:22

state. Certainly more

4:24

when we start to tax it. So it should

4:26

come as no surprise that

4:28

our brains like to conserve energy

4:30

by taking shortcuts or perhaps

4:32

what we can more technically call heuristics.

4:35

Some heuristics are constructive and save

4:37

us a lot of time, but many

4:40

need to be corrected and lead

4:42

to getting mired in fallacious thinking,

4:45

and sometimes to arguments and

4:47

even fights if they're left unchallenged.

4:50

We can't be expected to constantly

4:52

remember that we have received programming

4:54

throughout our lives that dictate

4:56

our norms and values from family,

4:58

from school, environment, government, peers,

5:01

and media, and more. Transcending

5:04

our programming is often viewed as

5:06

an act of defiance by those

5:09

who either prefer to accept their programming

5:11

as correct or are too fearful

5:14

or unaware to change it. What are the

5:16

effects of influence them? Robert

5:19

Cialdini talks about authority

5:21

as being one of the key drivers

5:23

of influence and even cites some

5:25

quite terrifying examples of experiments

5:28

that were done where people were prepared

5:30

to deliver what they believed were fatal

5:33

electric shocks in a staged simulation

5:35

to a subject who was an actor because

5:38

the person in a white coat conducting

5:41

the experiment told them to. Not

5:44

everyone did, but most did. And it

5:46

was in large part down to a mix of

5:49

Cialdini's weapons of influence, which

5:51

also likely included a blend of

5:53

consistency as they had

5:55

agreed to take part and maybe

5:57

consensus as well, because it seemed

5:59

like everyone around was okay with this and

6:01

it was normal. It is honestly

6:03

amazing and just a little scary, just

6:06

how much we will go along with consensus

6:08

and orthodoxy just because everyone

6:11

is okay with it and there doesn't

6:13

seem to be sufficient reason or always

6:15

to question it. This is one reason

6:17

why cults teach adherence techniques

6:20

like thought stopping. Because if you actually

6:23

start to think rationally about

6:25

what you're being told and question

6:27

the voice of authority, you will probably

6:29

end up coming to your senses and leaving.

6:32

Potentially stirring up similar ideas

6:34

in others. People are generally

6:37

much quieter when they're

6:39

not asking questions. We

6:41

move on then to the art of the con, and

6:43

most cons happen when

6:45

some element of trust has been

6:47

established and our reason to question

6:50

what is happening or why is happening has. Turned

6:53

off for a while, but we're

6:55

regularly conned in other ways too. Media

6:58

and politics mostly drive the narratives

7:00

of popular discourse, past

7:02

behavior, and our sense of who we are causes

7:04

to act in ways that try to stay consistent

7:07

with that identity. we follow

7:10

the crowd because it seems like they must be

7:12

right. If everyone else is doing it, we

7:14

should too. Guess what? This

7:18

is a long-winded way to get to my point. I

7:20

apologize, but I feel like

7:22

it was a necessary diversion. As podcasters

7:25

and podcast guests, the

7:27

vast majority of us follow the

7:29

crowd and do what we see others

7:31

doing. Sometimes we see

7:33

guidance and if we are fortunate, Or

7:36

thorough enough, we may find help

7:38

that actually works for us. Any

7:40

podcast coach worth their salt

7:43

will tell you there is a shit

7:45

ton of bad podcasting advice

7:47

out there, and some is from

7:49

seemingly successful people who we may

7:52

think we can trust. Fantasy versus

7:54

reality then. We often

7:56

get taken in by the idea of things.

7:58

It's a bit like getting a dog. The idea

8:00

for many of us is a nice idea. Dogs

8:03

are wonderful, but the reality

8:05

is one of daily walking in

8:07

all weather conditions, picking up poop,

8:10

lots of poop. Vet

8:12

bills, dog food, dog

8:14

friendly hotels on your holidays, or dog

8:17

sitters, chewed furniture, fur

8:19

all over the place, and a very distinct

8:22

dog smell that you never used

8:24

to have at home. And did I mention the

8:26

poop? That dog

8:28

and its wellbeing are your responsibility,

8:31

and if you are not a particularly responsible

8:33

person already, you are probably not

8:35

going to suddenly transform into

8:37

one when the dog arrives. More

8:40

likely the dog will have a less

8:42

than optimal existence that it's ignorant

8:44

owner thinks is just fine.

8:48

So it's not just about us. Ignorance may

8:50

be bliss for us, but it can be painful to

8:52

others. Like my friend, let's

8:54

call him Fred. Everyone else calls him

8:56

Dan, but we'll call him Fred, who publishes

8:59

his unedited podcast conversations

9:01

with no intros, a poor

9:04

quality microphone, an untreated

9:06

room, and untreated audio.

9:09

He's an interesting and very intelligent

9:11

guy. I want to listen

9:13

to his conversations, but sometimes, It

9:16

takes so long to get

9:18

to the point in his episodes that I

9:20

give up or the sound is so

9:22

bad that I find something with better

9:24

quality to listen to. I

9:27

can't really say he's ignorant of this.

9:29

He knows and really he doesn't

9:31

care enough to fix it. For me,

9:33

that's like having the best information

9:36

and delivering it in the most boring

9:38

lecture style that you can manage. Only

9:41

the most committed people will wade through

9:44

it. What Dan is

9:46

ignorant of is that podcasts

9:48

also need to be entertaining

9:51

and not like you've just accidentally landed

9:53

in someone's zoom room. I've said many

9:55

times before, but your enjoyment

9:58

of a conversation does not equate

10:00

to good content, and your

10:02

use of controversial opinions or

10:04

strong language doesn't necessarily

10:06

make you edgy or compelling to listen

10:08

to. Do you

10:10

have any idea how many people

10:13

out there call their podcast something like

10:15

Real Talk? It's not

10:17

the hook point that you think it is. Ignorance

10:20

really is no excuse as a podcast

10:23

guest. So ignorance will hurt you

10:25

as a podcast guest too. If you don't

10:27

keep a check on certain things like who's show

10:29

you're going on, what's their style of

10:31

interview, whether the conversation will

10:34

be edifying, will the show get

10:36

cut or promoted? Will you sink

10:38

or shine? Do you give longer

10:40

answers than are needed? Are

10:42

you really listening to the questions

10:44

being asked and staying aware

10:47

and present with the interviewer? Have

10:49

you curated your message in

10:52

the right way for that audience? Do

10:55

you know what the win is for you appearing

10:57

on the show or for the host? There's so

10:59

much to consider. One

11:02

time I agreed to do a show where it seemed the primary

11:04

product of the show was built around marijuana

11:07

edibles and there were

11:09

other guests that I didn't know about as well.

11:11

The one just before me was a

11:13

Donald Trump loving gun toting, woke

11:16

hating, redneck. And let's

11:18

just say I was in the virtual waiting room,

11:20

wondering what the fuck I had got myself

11:22

involved in. The interview

11:25

ended up being great and a lot of fun, but

11:27

when I look back, Fun

11:29

did not translate into professionally useful,

11:32

and I'm not in podcasting just

11:34

to have fun. Looking

11:37

back, agreeing to that interview for

11:39

me was a mistake, although

11:41

thankfully, not a very painful or costly

11:43

one. The most significant cost

11:45

was the time. I could have spent that time doing

11:47

something to advance myself professionally.

11:50

I needed to be more careful about

11:52

what and who I was giving my time to

11:55

and how it may affect my professional.

11:58

I'd fallen into the trap of thinking that going on

12:00

any slightly relevant podcast at all

12:02

would give me a boost. If I look at

12:04

my stats from such things, there have really only

12:06

been two shows that I guested on that

12:08

gave me major boosts to things

12:11

like my email list, which is my main call to action.

12:14

And I realize that if I did more of

12:16

those shows and less random stuff,

12:19

I would probably see much greater results. In

12:21

fact, there's no probably about it. So

12:24

do you just start or start right. This

12:27

is a hard question to answer and there's a lot to be said

12:29

for just diving in and getting started. I

12:32

would have to go with the diplomatic

12:34

answer, which is that it depends. Depends

12:36

what you are looking to achieve by going on podcasts.

12:39

If you are all about just having fun, carry

12:41

on as you are, doesn't really apply if

12:44

you're seeking to generate more business and build

12:46

professional authority. Then you would

12:48

do well to get more strategic

12:50

and prepare yourself well. I'm

12:53

not a big advocate of the expression how you do

12:55

anything is how you do everything, but it is useful

12:58

in terms of how we think about things. Again, a heuristic.

13:01

So since we have been talking about heuristics

13:03

running in general tendencies, if you do

13:06

tend to half ass things, you're probably gonna do

13:08

that with your podcast interviewing. What

13:10

about the resistance? Well, it always surprises

13:13

me how often people resist the idea

13:15

that you need to work at podcasting

13:17

and learn how to make a good show that

13:20

has a specific objective for the audience.

13:23

Just as much as being a podcast guest,

13:26

people often think that they are more interesting

13:28

than they really are, or that they know enough

13:30

to be the expert, or they have the

13:32

personality to be the next big thing. But

13:35

there are things that work and things that

13:37

just don't. I would hope

13:39

that unless you are a very experienced

13:41

speaker, you would get some help in coaching

13:44

before doing something like a TED Talk. It

13:46

would be see arrogance to think you

13:48

didn't need it and would likely

13:51

lead to regret when your less

13:53

than great talk is splashed around the internet

13:55

and top of search results when somebody Googles

13:58

you. Your professional image

14:00

needs to be curated, and I know some people

14:02

don't like this idea, but it's the. If

14:05

you want to be seen in a certain way

14:07

by your audience, you need to do as much

14:10

as you can to curate that image

14:12

and act in accordance with it. Speak

14:14

accordingly, and even dress

14:16

accordingly. People are desperate

14:19

to put you into a little box and identify

14:21

you as one thing, even though you

14:23

are many things. Your curated

14:26

image should be authentic to who you are,

14:28

but not to the point where you are presenting

14:30

a confusing image of who

14:32

you are and what you are about. Not

14:36

looking, sounding, or feeling right is gonna hurt

14:38

you professionally and may already be doing

14:40

that. You're gonna get boxed and labeled

14:42

whether you like it or not, whether

14:44

it's right or wrong, and you should do your

14:46

best to make sure you end up getting filed in

14:48

the correct box in the mind of your

14:50

listener. Now writing this episode

14:53

has been a bit of a challenge for me. First, to keep it

14:55

on track, which I only just about managed.

14:57

I think. Secondly, the time commitment

14:59

to actually do the writing and put the put

15:02

it in together, and then Covid,

15:04

which at the time of writing I was still trying to recover

15:06

from. But I believe more than ever, the professional and

15:09

expert podcast guesting requires

15:11

a professional approach, and that perhaps

15:14

a version of something like Toastmasters or

15:16

public speaking programs is needed

15:18

to help with this. I'm still noodling

15:20

on what that might look like. In the meantime,

15:23

please keep learning from the podcast

15:25

pros who are my guests on the

15:27

podcast. Amazing people

15:29

like Bob Gentle, Lee

15:31

Carter Jason Cercone

15:34

on those shows, we discuss a lot of these issues

15:36

around charisma, authenticity, and personal

15:38

branding, and I'm sure you will find that valuable

15:40

too. Now, various things have been getting in the way

15:42

of my publication schedule as happens

15:44

when you are doing a podcast and working in

15:46

a full-time job. So I apologized for

15:48

a lack of regularity. I've been doing

15:50

my very best to try and get episodes out more

15:52

regularly, so the schedule has been a little

15:54

bit off. I am still promising four

15:56

episodes a month. I will try

15:59

to release them on Mondays as much as possible.

16:01

My next show is gonna be an interview with Tim Reid,

16:03

a very experienced podcaster

16:05

from down and under. Who has an

16:08

incredibly successful podcast and knows a thing or three

16:10

about being on podcast, running a podcast,

16:12

and building influence and persuasion. He has

16:15

built up a big business through his

16:17

show and had a lot of fun speaking

16:19

to him, so make sure you don't miss that. We'll

16:21

be continuing the seven deadly sins

16:24

of podcasting with number four in

16:26

a couple of weeks. So make sure you are subscribed

16:28

to the show and we'll see you back again

16:30

very soon. Where if you're going, whatever

16:33

you're doing, have an amazing day. Go and

16:35

make great things happen.