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3:02

Welcome back, Prakaftan. I'd like to thank you for

3:04

following me into my 40th year

3:06

of living odds be damned. And

3:08

for those of you over 40, I'd love

3:10

your sage-like advice. Send me an email,

3:13

tanner at nosages.com and tell me

3:15

what can be expected during my fourth decade

3:18

on earth. I'd love to learn from

3:20

those who have gone before me. Before

3:23

we start today, two things. The first is that

3:25

our upcoming workshop is about anger

3:27

and rage and you can register for

3:30

it by donation only with a

3:32

minimum of just $1. You

3:34

can learn more by going to actualstoicism.com

3:38

and I hope to see you there. The second

3:40

is a bit of a dig on Marcus,

3:42

as in Marcus Aurelius. Not because

3:44

of today's meditation in particular, just

3:46

because I've recently seen a lot of

3:48

tweets and memes and other online

3:51

goings on that make me feel like

3:53

I have to say what I'm about to say. Or

3:55

at least make me feel compelled to say what

3:58

I'm going to say.

3:59

isn't, in my opinion, a terrific

4:03

resource for contemporary individuals

4:05

trying to understand stoicism fully.

4:08

I didn't feel that way when I started this

4:10

podcast, obviously, or perhaps I

4:12

wouldn't have started with the meditations, but

4:15

I've come to feel that way. It's nothing

4:17

against Marcus, it's just that the more time you

4:19

spend studying the primary texts,

4:21

and the more time you spend really

4:24

delving into what the ancient Stoics were talking

4:26

and thinking about, the more Marcus looks

4:28

like what he was. A practitioner

4:31

who probably never deeply studied

4:33

stoicism as a life philosophy.

4:35

Now, before anybody flies off the handle at that, and

4:37

I might be wrong, but that's just how I feel. We

4:40

know he read Epictetus, so

4:42

we know he's familiar with stoicism, more

4:44

so than he just read

4:46

it in passing and spent no time

4:48

reading any text, but he never mentions

4:51

being a Stoic in the entirety of his meditations.

4:54

He mentions the Stoics and

4:56

stoicism in such a way that it's

4:58

apparent they influenced his thinking

5:00

greatly, but only a few times. And

5:02

when I say a few times, I mean twice in

5:04

book one and once in book five.

5:07

So to say he's a student of stoicism,

5:10

I don't know that I'm particularly convinced

5:13

of that, really. Now, I'm not

5:15

saying he didn't consider himself a Stoic,

5:17

that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that, and

5:19

maybe I've made this comparison before, that

5:22

in religion, maybe let's take Christianity

5:24

as a well-known example, there

5:26

are people who practice Christianity

5:29

every day, and then there are people who

5:31

are priests and monks and

5:33

study the religion in a very different,

5:36

I think everybody would agree, much deeper way. And

5:39

if you're going to choose who to learn something

5:41

from, if you really wanted to understand

5:43

in this example Christianity, you wouldn't

5:46

necessarily want to learn it from an everyday

5:48

practitioner, although there's a caveat

5:51

there and I'll get to it in a minute, you would probably want

5:53

to learn it from a priest or a monk because

5:55

of that deeper study that they do. And

5:57

in Marcus's Stoicism

6:00

is one thing, as is living in accordance

6:02

with what you think Stoic teachings are,

6:05

but being a learned student

6:07

of Stoicism, let's say a scholar

6:09

of it, such that you know enough to teach

6:12

it or to say that you truly understand

6:15

the didactic parts of it, I

6:17

don't know if Marcus was ever that.

6:19

I think Marcus was influenced by a

6:22

handful of Stoics and was fairly

6:24

knowledgeable of the ins and outs of everyday

6:27

practical Stoicism, let's say, and

6:29

I take my name from the value I think

6:31

of practical Stoicism, the name of this podcast

6:33

that is. But was he an A.A. Long?

6:36

Was he a Chris Fisher? Was he

6:38

a Kai Whiting? A Margaret

6:41

Graver? A Julia Anis? I'm

6:43

less sure about that. I think Marcus

6:45

was in a position of influence and great

6:47

power. He wanted to be a good person

6:50

and he felt Stoicism was the right

6:52

way to be a good person. But

6:54

I don't think he understood Stoicism

6:56

in the same way that Epictetus did

6:59

or Musonius did or Chrysippus

7:01

did or Zeno did. And

7:03

to be honest, how could he? So

7:06

when we read Marcus, and again,

7:08

I didn't feel this way at the outset of this

7:10

podcast, way back in January

7:13

of 2022, but now I do. So when we read

7:16

Marcus, I think it's important to keep

7:18

this stuff in mind. He is not

7:21

or wasn't a scholar of Stoicism.

7:23

He's a practitioner of it. And

7:25

so he has a practitioner's

7:28

understanding of Stoicism, which means he's

7:30

good to practice with. He's

7:32

good to think along with. Returning

7:35

to last week's letter from Seneca, he's

7:37

another patient in the same hospital

7:39

as you trying to cure themselves.

7:42

And he's been at it for a really long time. So there's

7:44

a ton of value in Marcus's experience

7:47

and by extension, what he has to say.

7:49

But he's probably not the right person

7:51

to formally educate you, at

7:53

least not completely. There's

7:55

differences between a fellow practitioner,

7:58

even a fellow practitioner. who's a bit more skilled

8:01

and a, for lack of a better term, master

8:04

of stoicism. That's not a great word, but I'm going to use it

8:06

here because I think you know what I mean, a Mr. Miyagi

8:08

of stoicism, as it were. To take meditations,

8:12

and this is, I think, my ultimate point, as the alpha

8:14

and omega of your stoic reading would be

8:17

a very foolish thing to do. And

8:19

if you did, you'd be a poorly

8:21

read and thereby poorly practiced

8:24

stoic. And I would actually say the same

8:27

thing of Seneca. These two men,

8:29

Seneca and Marcus, were practitioners,

8:32

not sages, and not really

8:34

in the position of being particularly

8:37

knowledgeable, well-read teachers.

8:40

And maybe I'm going to get lambasted

8:42

for this. And if you really strongly disagree, I want

8:44

you to know that I'm coming from this opinion from a really

8:47

genuine place. I'm not trying to be inflammatory.

8:50

This is what I really think of these two

8:52

as stoic writers and influencers.

8:55

What I really want is for these ideas that I'm sharing

8:57

right now to be ever present in

8:59

your mind as you listen to this

9:02

podcast, this episode, and

9:04

any of the meditations or letters

9:06

that we share. Soon we are

9:08

going to include other texts from other

9:11

older stoic writers and thinkers.

9:14

Because for these first 18 months you've

9:16

been getting to meet Marcus and

9:18

then Seneca, but soon you're going to get

9:20

to meet Epictetus and Musonius,

9:22

and then going further back, Chrysippus

9:24

and Cleanthes, and then others

9:27

still. You will discover in that time

9:29

just how shallow an understanding

9:31

of stoicism one is destined to have

9:34

if they stop at Marcus and Seneca.

9:36

In any event, because this is supposed

9:38

to be an episode about meditations, right?

9:41

And I guess it's kind of been about it so far,

9:43

but not in a very flattering way. I have a meditation

9:45

I have to share with you. It's the third meditation from

9:47

book five. And just a reminder,

9:50

you all wanted this extra commentary,

9:52

so if you're really mad at me right now,

9:55

remember, you asked for this. You

9:57

asked for my takes, so there's a take

9:59

for you. Anyway. Here's the third meditation

10:01

from book five. Make

10:03

up your mind that you deserve

10:05

every word and work that

10:08

is according to nature and do

10:10

not allow the ensuing blame

10:12

or speech of any men to talk

10:14

you over. But if it is right

10:17

to be done or said, do not count

10:19

yourself undeserving of it. Those

10:21

others have their own selves to govern

10:23

them and use their several inclinations.

10:27

Don't look round at that, but walk

10:29

the straight way, following your own

10:32

and the common nature, for

10:34

the path of them both is one.

10:38

This is a terrific meditation for Marcus.

10:41

It's really enjoyable and really practical.

10:43

Make up your mind that you deserve

10:46

every word and work that is according

10:48

to nature.

10:49

In other words, decide that you

10:51

deserve what is good, the good life, that

10:55

is to say, the virtuous life, a

10:57

character of virtue. A life

10:59

that leads to that is the life that you deserve.

11:02

And do not allow the ensuing blame

11:05

or speech of any men to talk

11:07

you over. Don't, when you

11:09

decide to live the good life, allow

11:12

all those who have not decided that

11:14

they deserve the good life, or who

11:16

have actively decided they do not, or

11:18

that the good life isn't even valuable, those who

11:21

think virtue is silly, that

11:23

life is all about this or that

11:25

pleasure instead, or fleeting

11:27

things, or worse, without purpose

11:29

at all. Don't let these individuals,

11:32

once you've made your decision, convince

11:34

you you've made a bad decision. Don't

11:36

be swayed unless those seeking

11:39

to sway you offer something better

11:41

than a virtuous character. But how

11:43

could they? And we've talked about that in a previous

11:46

meditation. If you find something better, by

11:48

all means go after it, but what could

11:50

be better? But if it

11:52

is right to be done or said,

11:54

do not count yourself undeserving

11:57

of it. If it is right to stand up

11:59

for someone. Stand up for them. Don't you

12:01

deserve to be the kind of person who

12:03

stands up for people no matter the

12:05

consequences? Don't you deserve that sort

12:07

of character? If it is right to act,

12:10

then act. Do you not deserve to be

12:12

a man or woman who acts when it is

12:15

appropriate in ways which are appropriate

12:17

regardless of what others think or

12:20

do to you for acting the way that you

12:22

have the right way? Don't you deserve

12:24

to be a person who does what is right and

12:26

approaching virtue no matter what?

12:29

Well then do it.

12:30

Those others have their selves to

12:32

govern them and use their several

12:35

inclinations. Those people telling

12:37

you what to do or not to do

12:39

or say, they have their own decisions to

12:42

make and they can mind their business

12:44

in doing so and they already have a way

12:46

of approaching their responsibilities and duties and

12:49

their way, if it's not your

12:51

way, why would you be swayed by them?

12:54

Unless of course it is a better way. But

12:56

again, how could it be? How

12:59

could it be better than a virtuous

13:01

character? How could another way that

13:03

did not lead to a virtuous character be

13:05

a better way? Don't look around

13:08

at that, but walk the straight way, following

13:11

your own and the common nature

13:13

for the path of them both is

13:15

one. Don't turn your head from

13:17

your focus. Metaphorically keep your

13:20

eye on the prize, what your goals

13:22

are, what you deserve, a good

13:25

character, a virtuous character. This

13:27

doesn't mean focus only on yourself, which

13:29

is a mistake a lot of fledgling Stoics

13:32

make. Instead, it means when

13:34

you see something happening over there,

13:37

ask yourself, what would the sage

13:39

do? What would engaging with this person

13:41

over here say about my character?

13:44

Something good or something bad? Something

13:47

virtuous or something vicious? A

13:50

homeless man, for example, has asked you for change.

13:52

What does it say about your character if you do not

13:55

give him any change? There is no definite

13:57

answer. It absolutely depends,

13:59

but... But you have to think about

14:02

it. You have to consider and reason,

14:04

because certainly the sage would

14:06

consider and reason what was appropriate

14:09

in response to being asked for change by a homeless

14:11

person. And certainly, sometimes

14:13

it speaks well of our character

14:16

not to give. But then again,

14:18

certainly sometimes it speaks positively. Your

14:21

job as a percophton is to reason

14:23

which time is the right time and

14:26

which is the wrong. So you're

14:28

looking forward towards sagehood.

14:30

You're focused on virtue. But being

14:33

focused on virtue requires a 360-degree

14:35

view of the world, and not just that, but an

14:39

in-depth view as

14:41

well. You don't just see the guy

14:43

suffering behind you. You dive

14:45

into what actions are appropriate concerning

14:48

him and your involvement in helping

14:50

him, and then you reason towards an action

14:53

or a response. Like 360

14:55

degrees and deep. I

14:58

suppose that kind of does sum up stoicism,

15:01

if not in a strange way. Thank

15:03

you as always for listening today. I appreciate

15:05

you being here, and I wish you a fantastic

15:08

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15:10

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