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0:53

How so many people could

0:56

have thought this was a drowning is

0:58

really beyond me. But

1:01

that said, Ms. Rickerson,

1:03

I have to ask you a very difficult question.

1:06

Yes ma'am. When the girls were found,

1:08

were all three of them clothed?

1:12

Did they have their clothes on? I was

1:14

told that they did have clothes on, just

1:17

two of them did not have any shoes. Did

1:21

have clothes on? Yes ma'am. Ms.

1:23

Rickerson, do you believe

1:25

that any of your three girls that

1:28

were found in that pond had

1:31

been molested? At the time, no

1:33

ma'am, I didn't. What about now? From

1:36

the autopsy and what we were told by

1:38

the Texas Rangers, yes, they were. All three.

1:46

Hello and welcome to Real Crime Profile, I'm Lisa Zembe, I'm

1:48

a casting director for C.S.'s Criminal

1:50

Minds, and with me today is... Laura

1:53

Richards, criminal behavioural analyst, former

1:56

New Scotland Yard founder of Paladin National

1:58

Stalking Advocacy Service

1:59

to the podcast, Crime Analyst. And

2:02

I'm Jim Clemente, retired FBI profiler, former

2:04

New York City prosecutor and writer of Criminal Minds.

2:06

And I also specialized

2:09

in cases involving the abduction

2:12

and homicide of children when I was in the Behavioral

2:15

Analysis Unit. And today we have

2:17

a return guest, a very special guest.

2:19

Hi, I'm Amara Kofer, and I am

2:22

the creator and host of Black Girl Gone, a

2:24

true crime podcast, focused

2:26

on stories about missing and murdered black women

2:28

and women of color in America.

2:30

We are so happy to have you back

2:32

to talk about the killing of

2:35

three sisters, Zariel

2:37

Robinson Oliver, Amaya

2:39

Hughes, and Tamari Robinson Oliver.

2:42

And just to say that they were killed in a place

2:45

called Atlanta, Texas.

2:47

And I just wanted to place that for our audience,

2:49

because Atlanta, Texas is about three

2:51

hours east of Dallas,

2:54

and it's kind of in the northeast corner

2:56

of Texas, very near the Arkansas

2:58

border, not far

3:00

from the Louisiana border. And whenever

3:02

we do a case, I

3:04

get on Google Maps, and I go into the street

3:06

view, and I go up and down the streets

3:09

of the community. And I want to see where they went

3:11

to elementary school, and I want to see where the house is, and I

3:14

want to see how people are living. And so this is

3:16

a kind of a rural community, but not like a

3:18

super isolated community. It's a very

3:20

lush community. It's got a little downtown

3:23

that has an Italian restaurant called Luigi's

3:25

and the Rabbit Patch Cafe,

3:27

and it's just a normal, sweet

3:29

town

3:30

of about 5,000 people. And

3:32

somebody knows something about what happened

3:35

to these precious girls.

3:37

Absolutely. Well, welcome. Thank

3:40

you for coming back, Amara.

3:42

And we're continuing the discussion

3:45

on this horrific

3:46

murder case that literally

3:49

seems to have languished for months,

3:52

even after the autopsy was done.

3:54

And it's not how justice

3:57

should be accomplished. It isn't

3:59

justice.

3:59

being accomplished,

4:01

it's justice being avoided

4:04

in the case yet again

4:06

of

4:08

a bunch of young innocent

4:11

girls who were murdered. They deserve

4:13

to have justice and they haven't gotten it

4:15

yet.

4:16

So let's jump back into our discussion.

4:19

Amara brought up a really good

4:21

point. She was talking about how do you attack three girls

4:23

at the same time. And that's what made me think of the West

4:25

Memphis Three because both Jim and Laura were talking

4:27

about compliance with

4:30

children comes from somebody who knows

4:32

them.

4:32

And who is in a position of authority

4:35

over them. That is a way for

4:37

an adult to control three kids. Also

4:40

weapons are a good way for people

4:42

to control

4:43

more than one child. I

4:46

don't know if there's any- Is it possible that he

4:48

did it one at a time? Like maybe he

4:50

brought them all out there and then took them away

4:53

one by one and put them in,

4:55

killed them and dumped them in the river.

4:58

Is that also that possibility? Yeah.

5:01

The only thing that I question then is where

5:03

and when did the sexual assaults occur? And

5:06

that's something I don't know if they

5:08

occurred in the house and then he brought them out.

5:11

He could have done that one at a time in the house and

5:14

then brought all three of them out. I don't

5:16

know. Anybody could have done

5:18

that. Well, it's interesting to know how many times this cousin babysitter,

5:20

was he a regular babysitter? Was

5:22

this a one off? Because if he was a regular babysitter

5:25

and we're talking about sexual assault, then

5:27

this could have been happening for months. They

5:29

could have been grooming them and sexually

5:31

assaulting them over a period of time. I

5:34

don't know. There's, I need,

5:36

obviously we need a lot more information.

5:39

The autopsy report was not

5:41

actually released just the fact of

5:44

and the conclusion of the autopsy report?

5:46

Yeah. From what I haven't been able to find any

5:48

official- Okay. Well, obviously

5:51

all that information is critical. I mean,

5:53

we can't draw any conclusions

5:55

other than the fact that

5:57

that autopsy must have been conducted.

5:59

before those girls

6:01

were interred or they

6:03

must have been exhumed.

6:05

There's been no news about the exhumation,

6:08

so I'm going to make the assumption that the

6:11

autopsy was done within the two weeks

6:13

after their bodies were discovered. That

6:15

means that there should have been

6:18

plenty of information. If the cause of death

6:20

was strangulation,

6:22

then that is a homicide,

6:24

period. There's no way for that to be

6:27

an accidental death like drowning

6:29

can be,

6:30

but even drowning can be homicide.

6:33

If there's other indications, it can be classified

6:36

as a homicide. We have to see, but

6:39

there should be no reason for it to be classified

6:42

as an accident

6:43

if the autopsy was done within a couple of weeks

6:45

and there was information, there was something to

6:48

make them conclude that they were strangled,

6:51

that that was actually the cause

6:53

of death. The manner of death should never

6:55

have been listed as accidental.

6:58

It should have been listed

6:59

as homicide, period. There

7:02

are some very bizarre other circumstances

7:04

around the case and that's why I talked

7:06

about the Lieutenant Jones

7:09

saying about them he didn't know whether they were

7:11

good swimmers or whether they were wearing a life

7:13

jacket because I heard the mom

7:15

say that the Texas

7:17

Ranger Josh

7:19

Mason, she'd been trying to get hold of him

7:22

and he's never returned to her school,

7:24

which I find absolutely

7:27

confounding. Given

7:29

that the police put out information on March the

7:32

23rd, I found what was put out really

7:34

conflicting because yes,

7:37

they announced that this was a homicide and

7:39

that

7:39

three homicides, I should say,

7:41

and that they were strangled and

7:43

that they were appealing for information, but

7:46

they also said they were obtaining witness

7:48

statements and that the DNA

7:51

was ongoing and that the investigation

7:53

will continue.

7:55

What investigation? I mean, if it

7:57

was determined to be an accidental

7:59

drowning. they wouldn't be investigating

8:01

any further and what DNA is

8:04

ongoing and what witness statements and

8:06

that timeline.

8:07

Why is this taking eight months if you

8:09

have DNA and you have witness statements?

8:12

What is what is it taking eight months?

8:14

Josh Mason's number is put

8:17

out for people to contact and I'll give it

8:19

the number is 903-255-5727 in case any of our listeners know anything

8:25

or have heard anything but I just

8:27

find it really puzzling and really

8:30

distressing on behalf of the mother that she's

8:32

been trying to contact him and he's never

8:34

got back to her. That is just

8:36

not acceptable. Absolutely

8:39

not acceptable. Now maybe

8:41

he's considering the mother a suspect but

8:44

even if he did that

8:46

he should be looking forward to

8:48

discussing the case with her and asking

8:50

her questions not ignoring her calls

8:53

but there's no reason

8:55

for him to consider her a suspect if

8:58

she was at work the entire time

9:00

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10:23

We also talk about the jackets. I don't know if we've mentioned

10:25

that. It's also a strange clue in

10:27

this whole situation. She made me think of the West Memphis

10:30

Three, those poor little boys. The

10:32

girls' jackets, winter

10:34

jackets were found

10:36

tied together in the pond. The mother

10:39

says that she had thrown these jackets

10:41

away because they were too small. They had been

10:43

in the trash. Somehow

10:45

those jackets end up at

10:47

the crime scene.

10:48

It's just so strange.

10:51

The jackets were tied together? Tied

10:53

together like a rope, which of

10:55

course made me think of West Memphis Three

10:58

because their garments

11:00

were also tied together.

11:01

Well, yeah, their garments were-

11:03

Tied together to hold them down. Their shoelaces

11:06

were used to bind them, but their clothes

11:08

were basically bunched

11:10

up and

11:11

sticks were stuck into the mud

11:13

to hold the clothes so that they

11:15

wouldn't float back up. This is interesting

11:18

when you tell me that the

11:20

jackets were tied together and they

11:23

had been thrown out at the house. I

11:25

wonder when they were thrown out and

11:28

why they were still around at this date

11:30

because obviously July, one of the hottest

11:32

days of the year. Although I

11:34

just wonder if that was used somehow

11:37

as some kind of bedding

11:39

in the woods. That

11:42

is a possibility. I've seen- Or to restrain

11:44

them. I mean, you put the jacket on a certain

11:46

way, then that limits your movement.

11:49

If they're tied together, it could be a

11:51

way that he was controlling them

11:53

once they were in the woods, but

11:56

clearly they played some role.

11:57

Yeah, there must be some.

11:59

reason that they were disposed of in that

12:02

lake and obviously that would be

12:04

a place where you'd want to look for other

12:06

trace evidence i don't know if the in a

12:08

would have survived being in the pond but

12:11

but certainly. There there's a chance

12:13

of fibers and hair evidence being found

12:16

on those clothes

12:17

this is a really really

12:19

strange case i reached out to

12:22

a

12:23

colleague of mine who's a.

12:25

Texas ranger i have not yet heard

12:27

back from him but when i do

12:30

i'll certainly share that information

12:32

any information i can with our

12:34

listeners and with you mara. Because

12:37

i think it's important to get as

12:39

much information out as possible because

12:43

whoever did this that person is

12:45

still out there and if these girls

12:47

were sexually assaulted we're talking about a sexual

12:50

a child sex offender.

12:52

And a murder a triple murder somebody

12:54

who is clearly very violent

12:57

and a sex offender

12:59

now those two things make that person

13:01

extremely dangerous and we should have

13:04

him off the streets as soon

13:06

as possible.

13:07

If i mean if i lived in atlanta texas right now

13:10

and i know it's a small area i

13:12

would be outraged i would want to know. Who

13:14

murdered these three children i would be afraid

13:16

for my children because we don't know we

13:19

we have assumptions and we have information about the

13:21

cousin and their suspicion about him but. At

13:23

the end of the day, because the police have not told us anything

13:26

we have no idea who did this, we don't know.

13:28

What is going on and that that has to

13:31

be scary, especially for the people that live there and

13:33

so yeah there's

13:35

a there's a child killer on the loose right now there's

13:37

a child killer out there and. This

13:41

case needs more attention it just.

13:43

Whoever he is he's done this before

13:46

he may not have murdered before but

13:48

he may well have harmed other children before it

13:50

would be very unusual.

13:52

What can say children I mean that

13:54

takes a certain type of depravity

13:56

I mean we're not you know these are not to

13:58

strangle a five year old.

13:59

It's just, it's unimaginable.

14:02

So yeah, this

14:05

is the monster. Yeah.

14:07

Does that mean anything to you, that method? Well,

14:09

I have to say, I understand your characterization

14:12

of him and I believe it's a him as

14:14

a monster, but I think we have to be very

14:17

careful because most children

14:19

are sexually assaulted by people they know, love

14:22

and trust. Secondly, there

14:24

are people in a position of authority over

14:26

that child and they

14:29

look like everyone else. They

14:31

don't look like monsters. So

14:33

protecting kids against monsters,

14:36

what that does is it doesn't let

14:38

kids know that the real risk is

14:40

from people that their parents

14:43

and families exposed them to rather

14:45

than somebody who is lurking

14:48

behind a tree at a park. Now, does that

14:50

happen? Yes, it's very rare

14:52

that a stranger like

14:54

that, abducts a kid or sexually

14:57

assaults a kid. There are hundreds of thousands,

14:59

if not millions of children

15:02

sexually assaulted in this country

15:04

every year. There

15:05

are 160 to 200 kids who are taken by strangers, period.

15:12

It's great. Also Jim, just thinking about

15:14

that and the victimology, I mean, really

15:17

in essence, the girls were

15:19

low risk because they were at

15:21

home, right? They should have been in bed

15:23

at that time and they had a caregiver with

15:26

them. They had a care provider and

15:28

they were low risk. So

15:31

people blaming mum, I really do

15:33

just feel that's

15:36

so egregious on top of everything that's gone

15:38

on. We all have

15:40

trusted people that come into our

15:42

lives to look after our children. And sometimes we

15:45

have a babysitter set up and

15:47

they let us down and then we have to scramble

15:49

and find someone else. It happens

15:51

all the time. But I guess,

15:54

as a mother who is constantly

15:56

looking for nannies,

15:58

babysitters and so forth,

15:59

it's just a real reminder to

16:02

take great care in the decisions that you

16:04

make in terms of who can have access to

16:06

your children. And also when children

16:08

tell us about what's going on, you

16:11

know, we've talked about this before, Jim and Lisa, to

16:13

believe them and to take that very

16:15

seriously.

16:15

Yeah. And not only that, but encourage

16:18

them to discuss these things

16:20

with you. In other words, this

16:23

happens all the time.

16:24

Family, friend recommended

16:28

that this couple

16:30

talk to me because their child

16:33

was sexually assaulted. And one

16:35

of the things that I told this person was

16:38

that you need to reset

16:40

how you communicate with your child.

16:43

Because when you discovered

16:45

it, you were upset

16:48

and emotional. You were supportive,

16:50

but it was a big deal. It was a bad

16:52

thing. And you've done a lot of things

16:54

about it, but you have to understand that the child

16:57

interprets that as they did something

17:00

wrong, as they are at fault. And

17:02

now they are damaged. And

17:04

that's what you want to counteract.

17:06

You don't want the child to think their

17:09

life is over. People say it all the time on the news.

17:11

My child's life was taken. My child's

17:14

soul was murdered. My child's heart was broken.

17:17

Whatever it is, they ruined their

17:19

life forever. If they hear that

17:21

and they hear it all the time on the news, then

17:24

they think that's them now and they have

17:26

no hope. And we have to not put

17:28

children in that position. We have to give

17:30

them the hope. We have to give them the knowledge

17:34

that it is not the end of their lives. Now,

17:36

that being said, when children

17:39

are abducted or sexually assaulted and

17:41

murdered,

17:42

this is a major, this is a serious

17:44

crime. One of the most heinous crimes

17:47

that occurs in our country

17:49

and in our world.

17:50

This is something that the police should

17:53

have made the top

17:55

priority. The top priority.

17:58

How many, how many burglaries,

18:00

how many robberies, how many other

18:03

crimes did they actually investigate

18:05

in the eight months when they didn't

18:07

investigate this murder. Why

18:10

is it that there seems to be a very

18:12

good suspect or

18:14

person of interest

18:16

who was actually there

18:18

at the time who has not

18:20

been questioned apparently,

18:23

who has not had to

18:25

give a DNA sample, who has

18:27

not had to give fingerprints, who

18:29

has not been

18:31

investigated as far as we know.

18:33

If he has, I take this back, but

18:36

they sure as hell should have made

18:38

that a priority and should not

18:41

let him have access to other children

18:43

this whole time. Nobody in

18:45

the community will know that

18:47

he's a threat unless this

18:49

is actually fully investigated. He's

18:52

completely vetted and either cleared

18:54

or arrested. That has to

18:56

be done, and it should have been done already.

18:59

We should mention that Ms. Wickerson, the mom

19:01

of these precious girls, she

19:04

lost her own mother to COVID very

19:07

not long before this. That grandmother

19:09

may have been the caregiver. Without

19:12

her mother there to help and have

19:14

other family to support the childcare situation,

19:17

maybe she had no choice but to leave

19:20

her children with this cousin. It's

19:24

just heartbreaking.

19:26

It's horrible.

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21:26

I just hope there's more going on behind the scenes.

21:29

You hope that there's more going on, but

21:31

I have to say there's no real major news outlets

21:34

still covering the case or we

21:36

saw some things pop up because of your

21:39

mentioning of the case, Amara. But

21:41

what else can we do to get the case out

21:44

there or create some pressure or support?

21:46

Mum, is there anything else that

21:48

we can share with our listeners?

21:51

I think that just continuing to talk about

21:53

this story and for those out

21:55

there who are listening who do have media contacts or try

21:57

to get a better understanding of what's going

22:00

This story needs that attention because that

22:02

pressure needs to be like you said and needs to be placed on

22:04

the law enforcement So that if they aren't doing anything

22:06

like we can't assume that nothing has been done But

22:08

based on what we know There's not much

22:11

done and and if that is the

22:13

case as we see it Then they

22:15

need that pressure put on them so that they can

22:17

you know, they haven't reached out to other agencies

22:20

Maybe the Atlanta Police Department in Texas

22:22

is too small to handle this and they need to

22:24

reach out to the county They need to reach out to the FBI But

22:27

they need to do that and they need to know that

22:29

the world cares You know, like

22:32

they have to understand that

22:34

and whether these little girls were black brown

22:36

blue or purple Somebody murdered

22:38

them and and and their killer has

22:41

not been walking around free for eight months

22:44

And so, you know, I started my podcast

22:46

because I know how important it is to elevate

22:49

these stories I know how important it is to

22:51

tell these stories and like I said, you know saying

22:53

earlier I know every story is not going to get the same amount

22:55

of attention every every time A

22:57

black woman goes missing or is murdered. I know that it's

22:59

not going to be headline news on CNN Nobody's

23:02

asking for that But what I am asking for is

23:04

that when stories like this happen that

23:06

somebody that they have to be elevated has to be

23:08

important And they and they never are

23:11

and that's my problem These stories never

23:13

are as important as if they had been, you know,

23:15

three, you know Beautiful blonde hair

23:17

blue eyed white girls and they

23:20

deserve that amount of attention So, you know my call

23:22

to action is just continue to share this

23:24

story. I I don't have all the answers that if I

23:26

did I promise you I would have

23:28

done it already, you know, but I know

23:30

that I know the power of sharing and when I did this

23:32

video Did the video I had no idea

23:34

that it was that anybody was gonna see I mean I have followers

23:37

I know people listen to my podcast But

23:39

you know, I actually posted the video back in March

23:42

just the news clip and it did okay

23:44

But it didn't really do very much it didn't really get

23:46

a lot of attention on on Instagram But

23:48

then when I reposted that second video it it

23:51

blew up and I think that people started to realize like

23:53

wait a minute Are you saying eight months ago?

23:55

Are you saying no, you know, so, you

23:58

know, I think that's just what what

23:59

has to continue to be done because eventually

24:03

either we'll get those answers or it'll catch

24:06

the right attention and somebody

24:08

with a bigger megaphone will start

24:10

blasting this and saying, hey, what's going

24:12

on? Absolutely.

24:13

When you posted it, in fact,

24:15

four people the same day sent it to me.

24:17

I was like, wow, this case

24:19

has come up multiple times now.

24:21

It's one thing getting it in the media, but

24:24

the other thing I want to say to law enforcement colleagues

24:26

is do your damn job because

24:28

this should have been looked at right from the start.

24:32

You have to prioritize the case.

24:34

It doesn't matter whether somebody's

24:37

black, white, blue, absolutely.

24:40

The point is these are three

24:41

little girls under 10.

24:44

What we know about three little girls under 10, which

24:46

goes back to Jim's work at the FBI in Specialism,

24:49

when they're low-risk victims,

24:51

you have to look within the home, first of all, the

24:53

people that are around them. In this case, they

24:55

were found 200 yards away. Everything points

24:57

to local, everything points to talk

25:00

to the people who were with them, last with them.

25:03

It just sounds to me like it was written

25:05

off because, yes, we

25:07

know that, unfortunately, young

25:10

children do tend to, if there's a body of water,

25:12

they may well go in, but one, two, three. The

25:16

circumstances of the tennis shoes, a

25:18

little girl, Tamari's shoes being crossed over

25:20

each other, not sat

25:22

there together, but crossed over each other and

25:25

right by that body of water and the bicycle,

25:27

the scooter, nothing pointed to

25:29

the fact that one of them

25:31

just went in there and the other two tried to

25:34

help from what I've learned about the case.

25:37

It's just so baffling to me why they would naturally

25:39

go there rather than think

25:42

broader and keep an open mind right

25:44

from the start and question everybody right from

25:46

the start. When they quote her body, the

25:48

body's from the water and Zayreo has visible

25:51

bruises on her face and the other two

25:53

girls have busted lips, even if there was a assumption

25:56

that maybe this could have been caused by animals

25:58

or whatever, that should have been the first things

26:00

like, okay, wait, something is off about this. Not only

26:02

are all three girls in here, but they have bruises

26:05

on their faces. I mean, right. And

26:07

mom and mom is saying they're not

26:09

allowed to go out after

26:11

dark. They're not allowed to go to that field. And

26:14

she knows her children, she knows their behavior.

26:16

So if they're out there, were they chased out there?

26:18

Were they usually younger

26:21

children are afraid

26:21

to go into the woods in the dark. They're not,

26:24

you know, little girls, that's not something that even

26:26

in that area, it's hard for me. Like I said, I'm from

26:28

the city. So you know, we're kind of scared of our own shadows

26:30

here. And I live in Philadelphia. So, you know,

26:33

there's lurking in the dark. But even in the,

26:35

I would assume

26:35

that, you know, just a five,

26:37

going into the woods at eight o'clock at night. And like

26:39

you said, their mom is saying that they would not have

26:42

done that. That just is not something that they would have done.

26:44

And the time of day that it was makes me question

26:47

that, yeah, the, why would they, why would these little girls go into

26:49

the dark woods at nine o'clock at night? The

26:51

fact that their mother said they're not allowed

26:53

to is not as important as the

26:55

mother saying they would never have done

26:57

that. I know them,

26:59

you know, because that is what we

27:01

need to know. As an investigator,

27:04

we need to have the people who

27:06

are close to them interviewed thoroughly so

27:08

that they can tell, tell us the details

27:11

of these particular people. You have to, you

27:13

have to study the victimology. You have to understand

27:16

who these victims are and how they behaved.

27:18

And that should have been the first thing they did. And the

27:21

second thing,

27:22

once they

27:23

got the bodies recovered

27:25

and did the autopsies, they had

27:28

the information that this was not

27:30

an accident. Why did it remain

27:32

classified that, that way? Was

27:34

it simply indifferent? Was

27:37

it simply, we don't care. We think maybe it'll

27:39

go away. That is, that's outrageous.

27:42

If that's what happened,

27:43

did somebody just forget to change

27:45

it to a homicide? Did somebody just

27:48

forget to start an investigation?

27:50

When did the Texas Rangers

27:52

actually get involved in the investigation?

27:55

Was it at the point after March

27:57

23rd when they released the autopsy report?

28:00

Or had the Texas Rangers been involved

28:02

right from the beginning? I have no idea

28:05

but I intend to find out because this

28:08

is not how Little children

28:10

who are murdered should be treated by

28:12

the justice system. This is outrageous

28:15

It's definitely it's it's sad It's it's

28:17

just it's really no other way that the whole entire

28:20

case from start to finish right now is it's

28:22

just

28:22

sad sad And

28:25

it's solvable

28:26

Yes There is something that can

28:28

be done if people do their jobs and it is

28:30

solvable and I just think from that public protection

28:32

Point of view now as well of who

28:35

else may well be being

28:37

abused and harmed because there will be

28:39

future victims So I just

28:41

hope that they get their finger out and

28:43

do what they should be doing and I just

28:46

can't even Go there in my

28:48

mind to what the the mother shaman eats

28:50

been going through she says that she has

28:52

to think about her three other babies, you

28:55

know, and she has to keep going for them,

28:56

but Absolutely.

28:58

She mentioned somewhere that she was she had she had stopped

29:00

working after this had happened And she

29:03

had set up a go fund me page and she was and

29:05

she's struggling, you know Financially and it's

29:07

just I just can't I just cannot

29:09

I cannot imagine that just her life

29:12

right now and now now she's

29:14

having to come to the come to grips with the fact that

29:16

her children were in fact murdered and that

29:19

she doesn't have any answers and nobody's talking about

29:21

it and and you know, so,

29:23

you know, I Pray for her and

29:25

I hope that

29:26

you know she does get these answers really

29:28

soon and get some help and and you know,

29:31

I it's never gonna make it better because I can't

29:33

I She's doing better than me if

29:35

I had lost my three children because I'd be you

29:38

know in a straight Jack would not I would not

29:40

be able to handle that So, you know,

29:42

but like you said she has other children that she has to

29:44

be strong for and she has to be there for And

29:47

that is hard because you have to be

29:49

a mom while you know grieving

29:52

half of your children You know, I don't

29:54

I when I started the podcast I only did stories about

29:56

women over the age of 18 and I

29:58

tended not to do stories about children

30:00

and this is why because they're so

30:03

hard to talk about, so hard to talk

30:05

about, it's hard to talk about anybody

30:07

being murdered, but children, the innocence

30:10

of children, a lot of times there's the sexual

30:12

assault component when these children

30:14

are murdered and it's really

30:17

hard, but it's very necessary to

30:19

talk about. So I appreciate you guys

30:21

taking the time out to talk about this case

30:24

because this is what it takes. It

30:26

just takes the conversation, it takes people to have these conversations so

30:28

that more and more people hear it and the

30:30

video that I said was where's the outrage? People

30:33

are starting to become outraged and even though

30:35

it's taken months, that's partly because

30:38

we just found out, you know what I mean? But

30:40

in these last couple of weeks, it's really, it's picked

30:42

up and I just hope that, like I said, that

30:45

pressure mounts and continues until

30:47

law enforcement gives

30:50

these children's mother an answer to what happened

30:52

and someone is arrested and charged with

30:54

this murder. Well, we really appreciate the work

30:56

you're doing, Amara. It's

30:58

great work. You're a hero

30:59

for doing it and I

31:01

will continue to reach out to the

31:04

Texas Rangers and see if

31:06

I can find any information or

31:08

encourage

31:10

the Ranger that I know who is

31:13

very, very

31:14

good at investigating child

31:16

abduction and child abduction homicides to

31:18

find out if he can look into

31:21

it and see what's going

31:23

on. That's what it needs and thank

31:25

you very much for joining us and for

31:27

your work. We really appreciate it and

31:29

you jumped on a short notice

31:32

and I said to Jim and Lisa, we really got to

31:34

have your voice and they absolutely agreed

31:37

and please let us know if there are any

31:39

updates and any other cases

31:41

that we should be talking about. So

31:43

unfortunately, there's so much

31:46

going on and there are so many cases, but

31:48

voices need to be amplified, particularly

31:50

yours. And the

31:52

mother, Chaminique, if she ever wants

31:54

to talk on a podcast, we'd be very happy

31:57

to talk with her and amplify

31:59

her voice.

31:59

because I agree with her. She deserves answers.

32:03

And we shouldn't have to push so hard. Yeah.

32:05

She has a story. Her, she's a mother. She's a single

32:08

mother. And her story is part of

32:10

this. It's part of it. And she, you know, so yeah.

32:13

So let's end with thinking about the

32:15

three little girls. Zariel

32:18

Robinson Oliver, Amaya Hughes,

32:22

and five-year-old Tamari Robinson

32:24

Oliver. We hope that

32:27

their mother gets answers. And we

32:29

all want those answers as well. And

32:31

thank you, Amaya, for joining us. And

32:34

we hope that we can come back with some news

32:37

about what really is going on in the investigation

32:40

and that there's some form of accountability

32:43

in the case. So thank you very much for listening

32:45

to us. And thank you very much, Amaya, for joining

32:47

us. For now, this is Real Crime

32:49

Profile signing out.

32:52

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Thank

33:55

you. I'm

34:00

Dr. Doug Newton, Chief Medical Officer at

34:02

Sondermein, an in-person and virtual provider

34:05

of mental health care. At Sondermein, we

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connect you with the clinician that's right for

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Therapy is hard. Finding the right therapist

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34:27

Real Crime Profile was created by Jim

34:29

Clemente, Laura Richards and Lisa

34:31

Zambetti. Produced by Laura

34:34

Richards, Lisa Zambetti, Jim

34:36

Clemente and XG Productions and

34:38

distributed by Wondery. Editing

34:41

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34:43

Monster. Logo art by

34:45

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34:47

and performed by Simba Zumba.