0:00

3 , 2 , 1

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, 0 , and lift off , lift off

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, lift off .

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Today on the recipe for greatness podcast , we have Alistair

0:11

Frost , the founder of Pentire , a

0:14

plant-based drinks company inspired by

0:16

Active Outdoors . From signature

0:18

non-alcoholic spirits to aperitives

0:20

and premixed cocktails , each drink in their

0:22

portfolio offers refreshing coastal flavours

0:24

featuring a unique blend of botanicals native

0:27

to the coast in Cornwall . Join

0:29

us as we dive into Alistair's journey creating a

0:31

unique brand with a mission to provide healthy

0:33

, plant-based drinks aimed at active , outdoor

0:36

, loving people .

0:37

Alistair welcome to the podcast . Thanks so

0:39

much for having me on , jay . It's really really kind .

0:42

So I wanted to jump in and

0:44

start off around surfing

0:47

and outdoor activities . When

0:49

did you start to get into that

0:51

and when did those enter your life ?

0:58

Sure , I guess I've always

1:00

been a pretty active person

1:02

, a bit of a fidget , yeah

1:06

, I've always been into keeping moving

1:08

. Surfing I found

1:10

the love for when I went on

1:12

a self-tripped Cornwall with a few friends from school

1:15

probably 17 or 18 , and

1:18

just got the bug , as everyone

1:20

says , and completely fell in love with it and

1:22

positively fed into so

1:24

many areas of life , I guess . But

1:27

amazing sport , amazing lifestyle

1:29

around it , and it always ended

1:32

up in nice places as well , so that's

1:34

definitely a perk .

1:36

And also , when did

1:38

sort of entering the bar scene happen

1:40

to you ? I know you went to work in a bar

1:42

and past on screen . How did that come around and how

1:44

did you stumble into that career ?

1:48

I guess I've always done jobs in

1:50

pubs when you're sort of growing up in

1:53

your holidays and you need a bit of care . So I've done this

1:55

sort of like KP glass washing , all that

1:57

kind of stuff . And

2:00

I was maybe I think I'd been

2:02

finished university as

2:04

back in Cornwall and as

2:07

well working at the surf schools , and

2:10

a bunch of my friends had kind of gone to London for

2:12

a bit . One of my friends was opening a restaurant

2:16

above a champagne bar and

2:18

I moved up to town . I thought I'd move up three months

2:20

, see how it was , and I thought , oh , you

2:22

know , I could just go and see how it is and

2:25

just start washing

2:27

glasses in my friend's bar . And

2:30

it's always like it was a good start and you can

2:32

figure it out from there . And then was

2:34

there for a few years , worked my way up to GM

2:36

quite quickly first

2:38

six months , a year or so

2:40

and just totally fell

2:43

in love with hospitality , being

2:45

sort of front of house as well and dealing with all

2:47

the

2:49

good and the challenges of service

2:51

as well , which is great .

2:54

And what are you thinking about potentially

2:56

starting something yourself at

2:58

this point ? Or was it maybe after a few

3:00

years , you decided that , all right , now it's time

3:02

for me to go ? And how did the evolution of setting

3:05

up your own company come about to you ?

3:14

Yeah , it's always something I've wanted to do . I've

3:16

always looked up to people

3:19

who are going after big goals , trying to achieve

3:21

lofty things and

3:25

I think , looking back on

3:27

it now , it was always really drawn to reading

3:30

about the founders of Innocent

3:32

in the newspaper or all

3:34

these consumer brands , these kind

3:36

of normal guys and

3:40

very human people , but

3:42

achieving really awesome stuff . So

3:44

the interesting thing about being

3:46

in bars was you

3:49

had all these drinks brands sort of come in and

3:51

trying to sell their product over

3:54

the bar to you , or it might be like rock

3:57

up with a wholesaler as well , or someone else

3:59

might mention them to you and you see

4:01

these brands go from this small

4:03

little thing in your first interaction

4:06

with them , where they're like give it a try

4:08

, this is our cocktail , we make some drinks

4:10

together , cool to meet you , and they're kind of building this

4:13

relationship , and then

4:15

you're buying their product and it's going well and

4:18

I guess we're in London then . So you're reading

4:20

about them in the evening standard or like doing an Instagram

4:23

or reading about their growth journeys

4:25

, and

4:27

so I thought that was a really , really wicked thing

4:29

to do and also , at the same time , in

4:32

the world of , I guess , surfing

4:35

and outdoors . There's so many no-transcript

4:38

companies

4:41

in the active outdoor world that I thought were really

4:43

really great as well , so that was kind

4:45

of a few things bubbling away at the back of the brain

4:47

there .

4:49

What was the point when you saw the real opportunity

4:52

for Pentire ? Was

4:54

it just seeing the market trends ? What

4:56

was happening ? What was that ? Like Bobman , where you

4:58

thought , actually , you know what , I don't need to be the person reading

5:00

about these people . I can actually be the person

5:03

who goes out and does it myself .

5:06

Yeah . So I guess , if you kind of like

5:08

the journey in brief

5:10

was being in bars and having those

5:13

guys sell over the bar to us and

5:15

that was your like I know your fever

5:17

trees and Sipsmith and

5:19

stuff like that , so you've

5:21

got Camden and Beavertown . It

5:25

was very exciting . And

5:27

then I thought , okay , this is really great , really

5:29

loved , like wanting

5:32

to get closer into brands , and

5:34

I set up a small sales and marketing kind of

5:37

agency with a friend of mine and

5:40

we would represent brands

5:42

in London in the on trade so

5:44

do some trade shows and consumer shows

5:46

and also try and sell

5:48

them into bars and restaurants . So then I went from being

5:51

on the other side of the bar trying to sell stuff into

5:53

bars and

5:55

during this , during the time , even when I was like working

5:58

in bars and selling in brands , my alcohol consumption

6:00

was going down , down , down and this is even like

6:02

, say , six , seven years ago . I'd

6:04

go like for like I think

6:06

one time I'd put like two , three months without drinking any alcohol

6:09

, just without really even trying . It just kind of wasn't into

6:11

it . And then I was representing

6:13

all these brands that were all

6:15

alcohol brands and I was

6:17

also then pretty much like not drinking or

6:20

any drinking on special occasions . It didn't make me feel great

6:22

. I could see the way the world was going and

6:24

just was , you

6:26

know , more into feeling good every day . But

6:29

you could notice , like you know , trends within all

6:31

the , all the brands that I was representing . Right

6:33

, you know Jin was really booming . Then people

6:36

loved , you know , ingredients

6:38

, botanicals , story

6:40

, some provenance and how's it going to be served

6:42

. So there was all those like

6:44

I decided to notice those components that are important within

6:46

a brand . But also , as much as I love

6:49

what I was doing , I just thought this , this just looks

6:51

so fun . I really would love to , would

6:54

love to launch one of my own companies and like have

6:56

a go at that at that challenge

6:58

. So it was from being

7:00

in bars to them being in brands , but always

7:03

wanting to start , start one

7:05

of my own and primarily being inspired

7:08

more by health and wanting to kind

7:10

of do something in the framework of the industry and

7:12

be part of that occasion . But have like a healthy

7:14

angle on it was what really excited

7:16

and excited me and drove me .

7:18

And you decided the Cornwall would be the

7:20

sort of home place for this and I love reading

7:23

about it where you were sort of out just talking

7:25

to a few people about the potential

7:27

of the brand and

7:29

, as a botanist , and you sort of like asking

7:31

him about potential ingredients around the area , and he was like

7:33

, oh , you don't know , like this place is like

7:35

, so , like diverse , it's got

7:38

the best agriculture , was that ? Just you know

7:40

the part and parcel of just you

7:42

know stepping into an industry we don't really know much about

7:44

and you just talking and just like listening to

7:46

people and learning .

7:48

Yeah , chattings to people

7:50

with something I love , maybe

7:52

a bit too much sometimes . So

7:55

, yeah , always up for chatting

7:57

to people and like fun changing

7:59

up what you can , I guess . But I

8:01

had a few ideas drawn up that I was going , okay

8:03

, really want to start something and had a few ideas drawn

8:06

up and then you know , when you , when you want

8:08

to create something and it's really important to start

8:10

writing it down , even if it's something that you

8:12

you don't , you're not really sure if

8:14

it feels right , but you're just doing anything you

8:16

can to move stuff like one step , one

8:19

step forward and not worrying , you know , go for the whole

8:22

. You know like progression over

8:24

perfect sort of thing . So

8:26

I had a few ideas drawn up , but really like

8:28

the one that won't like that

8:30

I most loved . And also

8:33

when I was talking to about other people , that'd be really cool

8:35

, as I would about like

8:38

a spirit

8:40

that's like plant based . You know everyone

8:43

in alcohol and in gins

8:45

is using . You know these are like blending dry

8:47

botanicals and stuff . I'm a nutrient-grin

8:50

spirit . I was like , well , what about ? You

8:52

know something that's like plant based eating

8:54

and drinking's coming really big

8:56

, like what I drink with . It's like plants and

8:58

like botanical , like green images

9:00

and sort of about instead of people

9:03

. You know like cheers

9:05

in and you know like

9:07

an alcohol environment . What if they're like outdoors

9:09

and it's escapism , like a Patagonia

9:11

or a North Face or

9:14

something like that , and then it's

9:16

still going to be served in cocktails . So you've got your site

9:18

martinis and drinks

9:20

with these big green garnishes and what if you

9:22

drank it and it made you feel great , that it

9:24

made you feel drunk . So

9:27

that's just kind of like this vision of the site

9:29

plant based spirit world emerging the great

9:31

people feeling good . And Pentaz

9:34

, the name of the headland on our local

9:36

coastline at home in Cornwall , and I'd

9:38

sort of thought , okay , a lot of the whiskey

9:41

distilleries or the experience distilleries are

9:43

US , uk , asia , australia

9:45

. They're these kind of local , global brands

9:47

and they're these names that have some provenance

9:49

and you can have some kind of core tribe

9:51

, but also they can travel and scale

9:53

and resonate with people on

9:55

the other side of the world . And the cool

9:58

thing about you know , pentaz was really like

10:00

fresh and scalable , but also

10:02

like local and

10:04

meant something as well . So , had

10:07

the name , had the vision , had the like , you

10:09

know you get your mood bored and start

10:11

unearthing stuff . I think the good idea is just

10:13

feel so easy . Everything with Pentaz that we've unfolded

10:16

just felt so natural and unforced . I think that's

10:18

always a sign that you're on a good trail , right

10:20

when you're just buzzing about

10:22

it . So , yeah , then

10:24

it's like okay , now I just need to like find

10:26

all pieces like what's like

10:28

, what's the ingredients , what's the provenance

10:31

and stuff like with that . And

10:33

one of my buddies linked me up with a botanist that

10:35

I met on the headlands and he was like

10:38

just chatting and I was like well , that's a drinks company

10:40

, just like . I had your great botanist really interested

10:42

to meet you . And he was like

10:44

you know , do you know , it's just

10:46

like you've got some of the biggest botanical

10:49

range of like sea herbs and plants

10:52

in the whole of the UK . And I was like wow

10:54

, that's amazing . And there was loads of your like you know

10:56

, expected stuff , your rock sand fires and stuff

10:58

there , but then other really interesting things like

11:00

Isolatus Sea , purslane Sea , beat , and

11:02

that was what really . Then they started to go okay

11:04

, like get some of these , distill them

11:07

, did all your classic like YouTube

11:09

and stuff of eBay

11:12

, amazon , and just getting like

11:14

, getting going on trying to craft like

11:16

you know , again , even if you can't create it like a perfect

11:19

finished product , you can get an idea of the flavor

11:21

profile that you're getting after

11:23

. And then when I sort

11:25

of worked with some you

11:28

know botanist or distillers , or we keep going to see

11:30

people and ask if they could like make , you know

11:32

, make trials with them and stuff like that and

11:35

started to taste those liquids and thought that tastes

11:37

amazing , it's really fresh , it completely encapsulates

11:40

, and then you get a

11:42

bit of Penta as the brand could

11:44

encapsulate what we were going after , because everyone's

11:47

into like running , surfing , cycling

11:49

, sea swimming . So

11:51

it was that perfect blend of like ingredients

11:54

and outdoors that I was always

11:56

like looking to achieve . So that

11:58

was a great moment .

12:00

That's incredible . So I love that as well , where you just

12:02

sort of weaving around sort of not

12:04

really knowing the path , but people just guide you along

12:06

and eventually sort of get there . I want to talk about

12:08

brand now , because you guys

12:10

have invested it in so many different angles

12:12

and done such a brilliant job about it

12:14

. I'm curious you mentioned there was

12:16

the brand always from the very start

12:19

when you started imagining

12:21

sort of the future of the products ? Or did the brand

12:23

sort of evolve with the products as

12:25

you sort of developed along the way ? Because I guess

12:27

I'm thinking that founders

12:30

, they know the importance of brand but how to

12:32

think about developing it . What path

12:34

did you go down to sort of build that brand

12:36

that you've created ?

12:42

One thing we've always been really

12:44

lucky with with Penta

12:47

is the

12:49

brand world is something that's very natural

12:51

to us because we live it day to day

12:53

and it's

12:56

sort of like part of community . It's part

12:58

of something we're always in . So

13:01

if we need to I

13:04

don't know do a marketing campaign or think about what

13:06

to write in that newsletter or think about what we're doing

13:08

for that key trading time of year

13:10

or what's our visuals for that

13:12

retailer that we're going to launch in , it's always

13:15

. We always just remind ourselves that we'll

13:17

win by being the best version of ourselves

13:19

and all we need to do is tell

13:22

the story about what's going on in our community

13:24

of Penta customers and Penta people

13:26

and what we're doing each day to live

13:29

our brand values of active outdoor living

13:31

. And as long as we have our product

13:33

and our moment and stuff in there and educate

13:36

the customer on it and kind of not get

13:38

too carried away at the same time , then

13:41

we're generally good and I think that's the benefit of being

13:43

a kind of like a naturally ingrained brand

13:46

. And again , if you look at the

13:48

outdoors brands , they've got nice

13:51

threads of community and

13:53

ingredients

13:56

or all those kind of same things . So

13:58

it's something that's luckily been very natural

14:00

, but then just tell

14:02

it in the best way you can , I guess .

14:06

I love that . I think because when you see the

14:08

brand , it feels authentic and , like you say , it's because

14:11

you design the brand based on your

14:13

core beliefs , not something you thought people wanted

14:15

to have . You imagine

14:17

something , oh , create something that people might want . It's

14:19

something you actually wanted and I think that's always

14:21

the best way to do it . And I

14:23

wanted to talk

14:26

about how brands make people

14:28

feel something , and the

14:30

best brands do , and they make want people to

14:32

belong to something , and I think you

14:34

guys do that so well and when it comes across well

14:36

, as in your media films and I

14:38

recommend anyone who has not seen

14:40

that go onto their websites , watch them , because they are absolutely fantastic

14:42

. I'm here . How did those ideas

14:45

come around for those videos and

14:47

what did it take to actually produce

14:49

them ? Because they are actually incredible sort of what

14:52

was all involved in bringing those to life .

14:56

That's very , very kind . Well

14:59

, firstly , the obviously , although I'm

15:02

lucky enough to be on the pod here with UJ

15:04

, we have such

15:06

an amazing team of creatives

15:09

that have bought those to life

15:11

. So the

15:13

the films are yeah , there's lots of people

15:15

working hard on them and also lots

15:18

of lovely people involved

15:20

as the subjects that are happy to kind of share

15:22

their journey . So for

15:24

us those films are , although

15:26

they're pent-up

15:28

films , they're really about shedding light on people

15:31

doing awesome stuff . So

15:33

it might be people working on like sea conservation

15:35

for Blue Marine , or it might be really cool like free

15:37

divers , or it might be a really

15:40

like a local restaurant that's doing amazing

15:42

stuff , working with really good ingredients and

15:44

like just being really forward

15:46

thinking in in the

15:48

menus and their offering . So the

15:50

films are really like a community thing and

15:53

, again , on their like ideas

15:55

front , for us it's we actually have so

15:57

many of them . We were like , oh , we'd love to do like

16:00

a hundred of those tomorrow , so

16:02

we have to slow ourselves down a little bit . But

16:05

yeah , it's nice to like shed light on good

16:07

people doing good stuff

16:10

, and they do do lots of like a motive

16:12

stuff in the meantime and manage to capture some

16:15

lovely pent-up moments and

16:17

hopefully inspire inspire people along the way

16:19

.

16:20

Is it hard to get those people on board

16:22

for these videos ? Or is it because they're

16:24

so bought into the pent-up mission that it's

16:26

, you know , the advocates of the product and they actually just

16:28

want to be involved themselves ? I think that's

16:31

always .

16:31

It's always nice to give and shed light right

16:33

, and if you're happy to those

16:36

kind of collaborations are always a two way street

16:38

. You know you're happy to shed light

16:40

on people doing good stuff and

16:42

you're aligned and see

16:45

the world in the same way , then it's generally always

16:47

always pretty good . And I think that's

16:49

the same with our like creative community . You

16:51

know people in our films are amazing

16:53

designers and film photographers

16:55

and people that work on those projects , but

16:57

also I think the whole pent-up customer

17:00

base and community is

17:02

also into exactly the same same

17:04

stuff . So very lucky to be around good

17:06

humans and I think

17:09

that always if you're around good humans and

17:11

work hard and think

17:14

, good things will happen .

17:15

Incredible , and I think what really just feels is I

17:17

think I heard you say that sort of founding

17:20

PENSI gave you real purpose and it feels

17:22

like you're doing something rewarding every day . So

17:24

I guess how does it feel now feeling like

17:26

that , versus maybe when you're working in a

17:29

bar or you know selling you know

17:31

other products to other people ? What's ? How do

17:33

you feel differently about sort of what you're doing on

17:35

a day-to-day basis ?

17:36

Yeah , it's just every

17:38

day at PENTA is

17:42

an absolute dream and I

17:44

know it's quite like quite cliche

17:46

, but it generally is

17:49

like the real high

17:51

points are just

17:54

like , just you know , an amazing team of

17:56

like 12 , 13 people and

17:58

just getting to that hustle alongside great

18:00

people every day is wicked . So

18:03

if it's like we're in the office or

18:06

if we're out seeing people , just

18:08

the conversations around a product are great . I

18:10

guess , like the thing that we're doing

18:13

is putting a healthy , like a healthy

18:15

angle on the spirits industry . So we're in these

18:17

like traditional drinks channels and

18:19

also modern drinks channels . But

18:21

working with , like you know , really

18:24

forward-thinking bars and restaurants about making a

18:26

really like healthy part of their cocktail menu is

18:28

wicked . And the you

18:31

know like we also live our brand values every

18:34

day , so guys always like , if the waves are good , go

18:36

surfing . Everyone in PENTA can exercise whenever

18:38

they want . Everyone has lots of autonomy

18:40

and is a team of high performers

18:42

and very driven people , so everyone has like a lot

18:44

of autonomy to do whatever makes themselves feel

18:46

good , right , and largely manage

18:49

their own agenda . So you know , people

18:51

are going for a run in the morning , going off the gym

18:53

, go for a surf wherever they are . And then

18:55

you know you get to go and see some of the

18:57

best bars and restaurants and retailers

18:59

, whether you're in London

19:01

, cornwall , usa or whatever

19:03

. So then you

19:05

know the bartender that's

19:07

Pentah the most might be , I

19:10

don't know in Venice

19:12

in California right now like

19:14

last week went to a

19:17

house in downtown LA and bartender

19:19

that's like latch on to Pentah the most is snowboarder

19:22

, skier , surfer , and you're having conversations

19:24

about outdoors and health with that

19:26

bartender . That's also like just making incredible

19:28

cocktails and they're telling you how how much

19:30

they love Pentah and how great it's going . And you're

19:33

feeling great because you know they're

19:35

feeling great and they're like serving cocktails

19:38

. Customers are like feeling great and buzzing off it , so

19:40

that is just the most rewarding

19:42

thing in the world .

19:44

That's incredible , and I guess we've

19:46

been talking a lot about products and

19:48

brand , but you know , a company

19:50

can't exist without sales . So I wanted

19:52

to dive in and how you thought about , did

19:55

you sort of map out your whole strategy

19:57

about how you wanted to bring the product

20:00

to consumers . Did you decide I want to

20:02

focus on , you

20:04

know , small distribution at the start you

20:06

know local restaurants or things like

20:08

that or did you decide maybe I want to go to more

20:10

, like wholesalers ? How did you think about it from

20:12

the beginning ? What was your strategy ?

20:15

Yeah , I guess it was a mixture of strategy

20:18

and always being really open minded and kind

20:20

of being in a bit of a flow state

20:22

along the journey on the way you

20:25

mentioned earlier , kind

20:27

of like weaving weaving on your path

20:29

forward , and we've definitely like had a bit of

20:31

that as well , as well as being really clear cut about

20:34

where we want to be . So obviously

20:36

had the like from being

20:38

in the drinks industry before . I was like okay , well , these are the wholesalers

20:41

like this is where we've got to be , these are the listings

20:43

we've got to win . And we've always

20:45

been top , top like top down with

20:47

Penta . So top tier customers have

20:50

always been our target

20:52

and we've always wanted to work with the best and we're like , if we can

20:54

create the best product in the sector

20:56

, the best brand , work with the best people , have the

20:58

best team and have good fun doing it , then

21:01

everything's going to be going to be good right . So

21:03

we kind of did the like

21:07

. Firstly , when launched the products

21:09

. Really lucky thing at home is there's

21:11

just these amazing like nationally

21:13

respected as like some of the best chefs in the country

21:15

within like a 10 , 20 mile radius

21:18

. You got like . You like Rick Steins , paul

21:20

Paul Ainsworth , nathan Outlaws

21:22

and stuff like that right there on your doorstep

21:24

and I was like , well , if I can just

21:26

get it listed with those guys

21:29

, then surely everyone else in the country is going to think

21:31

it's good . And you know , the thing

21:33

I'm really most grateful of is

21:35

how early those guys championed the

21:37

product listed . It sort of making amazing drinks

21:40

and they're amazing to work with

21:42

today and own them . So

21:44

much for that and that's been

21:46

such a key part of our journey . So from

21:48

that then we went , okay , well , let's go the next

21:50

step . And there's loads of like indie

21:53

retail , great , healthy delis

21:55

and we've kind of or amazing hotels

21:57

and you make amazing hotel groups and you kind

21:59

of build the whole thing out and out . Now we're

22:01

four years down . We've

22:04

grown at an average of like 100%

22:06

year on year or more and

22:08

the last couple of years have been more about your

22:10

well , about adding on

22:12

your Planet Organic Sirocados like

22:16

some cool you know retailers like Selfridges

22:18

and stuff like that , and we're now about

22:21

to launch into Waitrose

22:23

next week . So it's been this kind

22:25

of dream dream journey and

22:27

just lots of pure hustle along the way

22:29

and working with really wonderful people .

22:32

I love that . So I guess we touched

22:34

on Waitrose there . How did that one come about ? Because obviously

22:36

you've got amazing partnership previously

22:39

with some great brands . You met amazing hotels

22:41

you mentioned there , like Sirocados

22:43

, also some great chefs like Pauline's worth , people like that

22:45

. How did the sort of conversations around

22:47

like a national listing in Waitrose come around

22:49

and how's that sort of evolved ?

22:52

There's lots of components I guess that to a national

22:54

listing that have got to be there . And

22:56

the really exciting thing for Penthouse

22:59

is we're excited to go into Waitrose

23:01

. In there with four years

23:03

of successful

23:06

trading and we've built this wonderful customer base

23:08

A lot of them who we know

23:10

from our data , like Shopping Waitrose and

23:15

we've been really like thinking we're

23:17

thinking like super . We're only at the start

23:19

of our journey , only just

23:21

getting going A

23:23

on our revenue , our KPIs , but also

23:25

what we want to prove in the sector and the impact that we want

23:27

to have on , the positive impact we want to have on the sector

23:30

long term . So we've

23:32

wanted to build in all these things at the right

23:34

stage of the journey , especially

23:36

for like a drink , scale up and to be

23:39

. You know , it's been really important for

23:41

us to go and

23:43

nail certain factors . So now we're launching

23:45

into Waitrose , we're

23:47

going okay . That's

23:49

happened because of our rate of sale , success

23:52

in channels before

23:54

each year and year . So , as well as our top line revenue

23:56

, we're also measuring , like you

23:59

know , especially like four or five key

24:01

KPIs in the company and most

24:03

of them are really centered about velocity , rate

24:05

of sale , how you're performing versus competition

24:07

. Our amazing like sales team

24:09

have achieved incredible results in

24:12

a car dough and self-reduce and

24:14

other key channels . So it's very much

24:16

like that consumer brand build where you got to

24:19

prove stuff at each stage but

24:22

, yeah , still feel like we're very early on in the journey

24:24

and got lots to give .

24:26

One big thing for you guys has been direct consumer

24:28

, and one big factor of that is

24:31

eyeballs . You need to get people seeing the product

24:33

and that comes from different avenues . So

24:35

I know that you guys have spent a lot of time

24:37

on content and building different

24:40

, different types of content to test

24:43

, maybe on marketplace ads like

24:45

Facebook or something like that . How extensively

24:47

did you sort of research and

24:49

test an experiment on ads

24:52

and I guess , what was the results

24:54

of that ? Was it , you know , really

24:56

significant how different , say , one ad

24:58

would play versus another one ?

25:02

Yeah , I guess when you're , the

25:05

interesting thing with with ads is there's

25:07

the whole like , there's

25:10

different ads at different stages of like the funnel or

25:12

the your marketing

25:14

kind of spend or which I guess they're

25:16

actually like just touch points for your , your

25:19

consumer . But

25:21

yeah , we're , you know , penntile

25:23

is an omnichannel business and

25:26

I guess the interesting about that is you're

25:28

running a lot of channels at the same time . Right , you've

25:30

got export off

25:32

trade , which is your like retail , and

25:35

on on trade , which is like bars and

25:37

bars and restaurants , as

25:39

well as DTC and other

25:41

stuff . So I guess the advantage of being an

25:43

omnichannel business is you can kind

25:45

of you can weave a little bit . You know , you

25:47

we've had pandemics and all this

25:49

kind of stuff that have happened over our years of

25:51

trading and some of the channels have kind of have

25:53

have moved . Ultimately you've got

25:56

to have a channel strapped , seeing that channel's

25:58

got to grow . But definitely at certain times

26:00

it's good to like have certain ones

26:02

to lean on . But yeah , dtc

26:04

is really interesting . It's like you obviously

26:06

have a lot of other benefits on top of the revenue

26:10

. But you get a lot of learnings . You know you get a lot

26:12

of data . You get to know like where your customers

26:14

are , like , who's buying it , how many times

26:17

are they buying it , are people bundling up Like

26:19

are they like long time customers and have they switched

26:21

across products ? And then also

26:24

you get like a get a big feedback loop . So so

26:27

for us it's like it's a multi-use channel

26:29

, and also when you're entering new territories

26:31

, it's pretty fun as well . So

26:34

, yeah , everyone's got like a

26:36

lot of different strategies with their DTC

26:38

stuff , but

26:41

it's definitely something that we invest in and

26:43

definitely going to continue to as well

26:45

. And , yeah , lots of good stuff happens

26:47

from it fun interactions .

26:49

And how does that differ from like Amazon ? What's

26:51

that Amazon like to deal with

26:53

and sell on ? Is it more difficult challenge to sort

26:56

of get your brand across that you invest so much time in , or

26:58

do you think people are sort of going to Amazon because they've

27:00

had different touch points with your brand along their

27:02

journey ?

27:05

Yeah , good

27:07

question . I guess

27:10

you I

27:12

think it was that pretty just depends where you are on

27:15

your brand

27:17

journey as well . Right , we definitely feel like

27:19

now we feel like people

27:21

are understanding Pentar a little bit more . We've got a good

27:23

customer base . Four years in we

27:25

can be a bit broader and a bit braver

27:27

. I think at the beginning you're very much like

27:29

you're trying to tell everyone everything

27:31

at once and

27:34

you're thinking , oh , if we're going to do

27:36

that or I don't know , we're going to put that piece

27:38

, that thing in that magazine , people

27:41

might not have just heard of us and so we've got

27:43

to put a whole brand sales

27:45

pitch on there . And then you're thinking , oh , it looks a bit

27:47

busy and you kind of get in the spiral , whereas

27:51

whereas now we advertise with a bit

27:53

more breathing space and enjoy it and kind

27:55

of love what Pentar is . And I think long

27:57

term about it , because we have these

27:59

channels , they're a bit bigger and businesses moved on

28:02

and we have lots of lovely customers everywhere . Or

28:04

maybe people will say anything oh , that looks

28:06

cool , and then there's a likelihood

28:08

that they might see the product somewhere else soon

28:10

, on a menu or on a shelf . I

28:12

think how that links back to your question is , like

28:15

you know , ultimately

28:17

it's great to be available . Yeah , amazon's

28:19

so important for availability , right , their delivery

28:21

speed is nuts and

28:24

the fact that , especially if you're living , like I

28:26

mean , in London , the delivery speed is really high . But if you're

28:28

living regionally as well , the fact that you

28:30

can not leave your home and get somewhere you

28:32

know something so fast is is is

28:35

crazy . So it's

28:37

nice to be on there and be available for , like , repeat purchase

28:39

as well . And also , you know you can , you can

28:41

do ad campaigns , you can bid on stuff

28:43

. But , yeah , nice

28:45

, it's a great availability channel , for sure

28:48

. And then how much you want to , kind of how

28:50

much you want to bid and play on it is

28:52

is , I guess , another thing and , depending on what

28:54

you're like , what your numbers are and

28:56

how much you can afford to spend is ultimately

28:59

what they're like . Dc fear

29:01

comes down to , on how much you can afford to spend

29:04

, and a lot of that , I guess , is based on the like

29:06

metrics that that you're getting with your product

29:08

, product and brand and that

29:10

space .

29:12

Amazing . I'll go back to sort of the

29:14

start of the journey . I guess one thing I heard you saying

29:16

it reached out to me was someone asked you

29:18

about entrepreneurship and you sort of

29:21

said , if something you need to

29:23

keep trying and keep trying until

29:25

something works , I guess what ? What do you mean

29:27

by that ?

29:29

I think maybe it can compiles of a of

29:31

a of a lot of things , doesn't it ? And

29:33

anyone trying to achieve stuff is go

29:35

a bit of balance of determination and open

29:38

mind and kind of believing

29:40

in yourself when you just believe that something's right , and

29:42

also maybe listening to why

29:45

some you know you didn't get something and

29:47

something was maybe , maybe wrong

29:50

. So it's definitely just about like moving

29:52

forward in the right way and , yeah

29:54

, bit of a I'll go back to a bit of a balance

29:56

of determination and listening and and

29:59

and flow state as well

30:02

. Yeah , so listening as much

30:04

as pushing , I think , is really really key in that

30:06

. And if you've got a good talking

30:10

into people and bringing it to life

30:12

in any way you can , you can quickly kind

30:14

of learn whether it's yay or nay for

30:17

people or not .

30:18

I want to finish on one final point around sustainability

30:20

. I know it's a big thing for Pentai

30:22

and your registered B Corp and

30:24

one thing I love going home to the website was

30:27

you published your report around

30:29

sort of how what you're doing in terms of like

30:31

the key points around sort of B Corp , around

30:34

environment , employees , et cetera , how

30:36

important is for you , for the organization and how much do you guys

30:38

keep like pushing around that ? How difficult

30:40

is it to manage , I guess as well as you know

30:42

, trying to drive those rate of sales like we've been talking

30:44

about .

30:48

The B Corp thing was really was really interesting

30:52

, as they're like outdoors inspired drinks

30:54

company and I saw being like especially

30:56

in and around the ocean every day , as sustainability

30:59

has always been a very cool part of what we've been doing

31:01

, and the B Corp thing is amazing

31:03

movement , really fun , and we just like

31:05

love , love being part of it

31:07

. It was also interesting . You

31:09

know being accredited was a lot of hard

31:11

work , but it was very like

31:14

doing all of the whole process

31:16

with stuff that we were naturally kind of doing anyway . So

31:19

it was really nice to like and we achieved

31:21

a really good , good , high score of which

31:23

we see as a baseline that we're now looking to like , build

31:26

on quite aggressively . So it was

31:28

. It was really nice to kind of get a nod

31:30

also back to ourselves going okay , cool , this is great

31:32

. We're like we're doing stuff in a really good

31:34

way and we've got loads more headroom to

31:37

go , so it's

31:39

really vital . It's really vital for the environment

31:41

we're in . You know it's always been a

31:43

goal and something

31:46

that we're passionate about

31:48

being a beacon brand for for

31:51

the sector for sure . So

31:53

doing stuff in the right way is really imperative , and

31:55

also when you're trying to build a long term business

31:57

. I think you , you know you've got to keep imagining

31:59

it scale , scale , scale . So

32:02

I've got to put in foundations early

32:05

on for that .

32:06

And for people about

32:08

weight throws . What information can you share for

32:10

them ?

32:11

Yeah , sure . So the

32:13

Pentacostal splits , which is

32:15

our naturally bitter aperitif

32:17

. It's got

32:20

like blood , orange sea , rosemary

32:22

and oakwood Really delicious

32:24

. It's launching in 200

32:27

weight throw stores next week . Everyone

32:30

in our whole whole company's been working

32:32

on it and has contributed to it . So

32:34

, yeah , really exciting , goes live next week

32:37

and we're very

32:39

, very , very pumped about it .

32:41

Incredible , and I guess one thing that might be nice

32:43

for the audience to hear about is any

32:45

books or recommendations for resources

32:48

that you like to go to or you recommend for

32:50

potential founders or resources

32:52

they might find useful . Anything that comes to mind .

32:56

Seeing the well . One

32:58

amazing thing about now , I guess , is

33:01

like the modern books of today and the podcast

33:03

like this one that you can you

33:05

can listen to and kind

33:07

of put good , positive , like positive

33:10

stuff in the brain . You know , I found that really really

33:12

helpful when I was starting out and we still

33:15

find it really helpful now in Pentar . We love listening

33:18

to , listening to podcasts , especially in this

33:20

sphere , and get to know how other people

33:22

are thinking and what they're up to , and stuff like that is

33:24

really really great . And then I've always been

33:26

very drawn

33:28

to , I guess , like

33:30

maybe entrepreneurs

33:33

in their field that put a very human element on

33:35

things like Ray

33:37

Dahlio's book Principles I think is really

33:39

really good . It just goes about like

33:41

ultimately he's a fund manager

33:43

but he's , you know , like on

33:47

the news talking about you

33:49

know like global markets and he's just there and it's like

33:51

T-shirt and cardigan and he's articulates

33:54

like a real human in a way that anyone could

33:56

understand , and so

33:59

that's really cool . And you know you're

34:01

, I guess you're sort of like you're Richard Branson's

34:03

and your people that you know like make modern business

34:05

really cool . You know they're

34:08

just good humans and they're also clearly

34:10

like really hardworking and really good at what they do

34:12

, but being a good human and being

34:14

a cool person that's

34:17

approachable and fun

34:19

and exciting as something first

34:21

. That's all where all the really good stuff

34:23

is , which again is why I think podcast

34:26

are great , because you get to learn a bit more

34:28

about people over a

34:30

polished book as well . So thank

34:32

you for all the stuff that you're doing . Congrats on it .

34:34

Oh , thanks , yeah , and I love Ray Dahlio's Principles

34:37

because I love the way he says . It's like oh , it's just another

34:39

one of those because of all of his experience that he just

34:41

knows like every situation feels so different

34:43

and unique , but ultimately there's so much similarities

34:45

that run through every single problem . And he's

34:47

like oh , you know , just based on these fundamental principles

34:50

you can sort of solve them and stuff .

34:51

So , yeah , it's definitely a great read and

34:54

also on that , like he's . So he's put

34:56

in his principles that sound really rigid and

34:58

you think God , that sounds nuts . But actually

35:00

he's just trying to go look everything's patterns , like

35:02

this is all normal . And then

35:04

the main thing that resonates to me in his kind of books

35:06

is you're like radical . He's had first

35:09

radical open-mindedness , right

35:11

, and that is part of a progression

35:13

journey . You know he's putting about principles in terms

35:15

of like what to do , but radical , you

35:18

got to really think about stuff and you got to get out

35:20

your own heads and you got to think , just because I

35:22

think this way , is that really right

35:24

? And is someone else right Because

35:27

maybe I should listen to them ? And

35:29

that sort of that is such a key

35:31

part in our whole company where it's like look

35:33

like guys , this is my thing , but like

35:35

I could well be wrong . What do you think ? It's

35:38

way much better to progress by having

35:40

like an open-minded chat with four people's opinions

35:42

and also guys , they're all of us

35:44

in this room wrong . Like for us

35:47

, we're really lucky . We've built up an amazing investment

35:49

network of our hero entrepreneurs

35:51

invested in our journey and something's cool

35:53

. Then we go . I've got this situation like what

35:55

do you , what would you do there ? And

35:58

they might not even be right . So

36:01

it's that kind of that way

36:03

of thinking is really good . Ultimately , you've got to make

36:05

a decision , you've got to move forward and you've got to do there and you've

36:07

got to fail forwards and take the learnings and it's going

36:09

to be like successful learning . But

36:11

just having those like things and seeing ahead

36:14

in scenarios I think is really great . Because

36:16

then your other you know , like

36:18

you know everyone's really

36:20

shoe dog right by Michael Hazley in the last

36:22

five years . Maybe it's a classic

36:24

to name , but the interesting thing about that journey

36:26

is being superhuman , talking

36:28

to you about his challenges

36:31

and his um

36:33

, his yeah , I was going

36:35

to say favors , but his like the things

36:37

that maybe didn't work along the way and

36:39

actually is . You know how chaotic the whole

36:41

progression journey was . So when

36:43

you really like they really lift the lid on

36:46

what's going on in these growth journeys and

36:48

also the , the like frame of mind that

36:50

you need to be in to progress forward , it's you've

36:53

got to swear or a certain to exercise , you've got

36:55

to get out of your own head , go to try and get rid

36:57

of some of your own emotions and you've got to stay cool and

36:59

stay progressive and if stuff

37:01

happens , maybe thinking about why it's happening to

37:03

you and then being

37:05

part of that along the way is some of the

37:07

stuff that we haven't won . Or

37:10

whether that's a listing , it's

37:12

an investment or it's

37:15

being part of something , or the

37:18

stuff sometimes that you don't win along the

37:20

way is stuff that you're not meant

37:22

to win or have

37:24

happened to you anyway . It just wasn't in your

37:26

plan . And we get these points where

37:28

we go , oh wow , like

37:30

so lucky that we didn't get that X

37:33

, like a year ago . You

37:35

know , oh my God , if we got you know

37:37

we're involved in that we'd be screwed

37:39

now , but at the time it was , you

37:41

just thought , if I just achieve that , that will

37:43

be what success is and we'll be fine , we'll

37:46

have nailed it . So lifting

37:48

the lid on those bits , I think is great , gives you insight

37:50

into that and it gives you insight into how long the journey

37:53

is , which is why you need to love it and

37:55

why you need to live it and why you need to be

37:57

thinking ahead and being around really good humans

38:01

so that it's really fun every day . And

38:04

if that can be happening , then I think

38:06

you're starting on a good step .

38:09

Yeah , I completely agree . I think it goes back to that sort

38:11

of purpose that we mentioned about you , like sort of , you

38:13

know , finding something real purpose in what you're

38:15

doing and , like you say , every day becomes

38:17

fun , it doesn't become a challenge and that's why you can keep

38:19

going those long distances , right , and that's kind

38:22

of that theme through all these people who've built these

38:24

businesses over such a long period of time , they

38:26

have that same core belief that you know they're doing

38:28

something bigger than just themselves . So completely

38:31

agree .

38:33

Definitely , definitely , and I'm sure you

38:35

know and you've got a got a community of

38:37

people that are , you know , founders

38:41

or early stage , you know early

38:43

, like teams

38:45

and businesses , you know , or

38:48

they're just a large company but they're

38:50

really entrepreneurial and they're

38:52

thinking is that

38:55

there's so many polished things out there

38:57

, there's so many like this is what we've done , and

38:59

it's a real danger when someone goes on , tells

39:01

about your pentai journey and explain this like four

39:03

year journey and two or three sentences

39:06

to try and make it easy for everyone to understand

39:08

, which is great , but it will just sounds really

39:10

easy and that can then make it very daunting

39:12

for people trying to start out as a guy can't do

39:14

that . I can't do that . I

39:17

got D's and E's in school and

39:20

so I have a . You know you got to

39:22

go . You know what can

39:25

you do , like what are your strengths

39:27

, and everyone's got strengths in

39:29

other ways and you can . You can buddy

39:31

up with people and compliment your skill sets or you

39:33

can just actually like try and find your what's

39:37

like . You know , try and find

39:39

your strength and move stuff forwards . So

39:41

often it's not as complicated as you think

39:43

as well to take like one

39:45

step forward and simplify it . So

39:48

that's just a really interesting , a really interesting thing

39:50

. Again , why I think your pods are great is because you're

39:52

having really human chats of people that are

39:54

really open , really open about about moving

39:57

forward . And it's great to have a strategy

39:59

, but with the strategy , you've got to have a really open

40:01

mind about it needing to change and it being

40:03

like not the right path forward as well

40:05

. So , yeah , respect to everyone that's growing something

40:08

and keep

40:10

, keep going wherever you are on the journey .

40:13

Yeah , I love that and it's just a still to what

40:15

you just said there . It's just focused on that one step

40:17

and you know you'd be amazed how far you can get just doing that

40:19

one step so incredible . I think it's

40:21

perfect point to finish in soon . Again , I want

40:23

to reiterate to everyone how what

40:25

an incredible brand is and if they do get a chance to go

40:27

on to their website to watch their

40:29

films , because they are honestly incredible

40:31

to watch and I guess as well happening

40:35

next week . You mentioned right the nationwide listing

40:37

to waitrose for people if they want to

40:39

go grab some .

40:41

Yeah , that's it . And so

40:43

so grateful to be on and I think

40:45

you know , yeah , lucky to be on

40:47

, but I'm only here down to the amazing

40:49

team we have at Pentar and really lucky

40:51

enough to to run

40:54

the companies by side of my really good

40:56

friend and co founder , ed . Everyone

40:59

in the team is amazing and we're only

41:01

where we are because we've had so many customers

41:04

believe in us . If that's like they bought a bottle on DTC

41:06

or they bought one drink in a bar , or or

41:08

they're a celebrity that's Instagram day

41:10

, or in their chef or bartender , that's believed

41:13

in it . We're just super grateful to our whole

41:15

community and everyone that's been been part

41:17

of the positive journey along the way . So

41:19

, yeah , big , big thanks to everyone and and

41:22

thanks to you , it's been really fun . And

41:24

yeah , onto the next chapter .

41:27

Amazing . I look so much looking forward to seeing what's happening , because

41:29

I think it's a incredible brand and it's going to be definitely

41:32

going on to do big things . So , thanks so much , come on and share

41:34

the journey . Yeah , so

41:37

, as always , guys , thank

41:39

you so much for listening , really

41:42

appreciate the support and

41:44

if you guys like it and you're enjoying what

41:46

you're listening to , please like

41:48

and subscribe . And for

41:51

your review , we'd really appreciate

41:53

it . Again , we'll be

41:55

back doing this weekly and

41:58

, yeah , if you want to know more about starting a food business

42:00

, head to wwwjageringwoodcom

42:03

. And , as always , thank you

42:05

and be great .