0:00

I'm wendy took them in enjoy

0:02

listening to signs fastest from gimlet.

0:05

Famous show. We have diving

0:08

the world of misinformation. We

0:10

had been busily working on other episodes,

0:13

frowned new season, then quickly

0:15

shifted gears because of

0:17

the Joe Rogan host of the most

0:19

listened to podcast on being

0:21

accused of a public health Menace

0:24

for

0:24

repeatedly, promoting falsehoods about Kobe

0:26

on his show. Now,

0:28

if you miss this, perhaps to the.

0:30

The be watching the Australian Open on.

0:33

the as body

0:38

Anyway,

0:40

if the out of the latest he's not taking.

0:42

Don't write and is an incredibly popular podcast

0:45

down. The been reported by a bunch of news

0:47

outlets that.

0:48

Millions of people listen to his shout

0:50

and back in December he had his interview

0:53

with a guy called the doctor Robert Malone.

0:56

Now Malone did some early, fundamental

0:58

research with mrm A, but

1:00

since then he's become famous for getting

1:02

kicked off tweet off after some

1:04

say he spread misinformation about the

1:06

vaccine. Now, when you

1:08

meet interview with Joe rogan Malone

1:12

did make the covert vaccines look bad,

1:14

he talked about scary side effects seem

1:16

to suggest that boost his could increase

1:19

your risk of getting close it. In the

1:21

back been there with to as activity. The

1:24

Map Canada, typically The bag.

1:27

Find it was so up in arms about

1:29

this interview that hundreds of ned

1:31

sent a letter to Spotify calling

1:33

on them to do things and. My

1:35

to modify wow. so

1:38

broken has an exclusive deal with them

1:40

so you can only listened to his show

1:43

on spotify I'm

1:45

autistic demanded the music be taken

1:47

off the platform an hour to an upheaval

1:50

in music streaming legendary singer

1:52

songwriter Neil Young is pulling his

1:54

music some sort of I know what if did

1:56

some self like releasing it. On rules.

1:58

The through knockdown A. The White House commented:

2:01

same companies should do more to

2:03

ensure the American people have access to ask your information

2:06

on.

2:06

The and significance as covered nineteen

2:08

that certainly includes spotify.

2:11

All quite all, Quinn. Because

2:13

he said.

2:14

What to fly, Swatter fly,

2:17

and it's even more awkward. The

2:19

could find this is this show.

2:21

The owned by Spotify. Then

2:24

the party months I've been encouraging you

2:26

all to join up to spotify.

2:29

Though. The oh, my to bit of a champion.

2:33

Which brings us to today we,

2:35

are gonna dig into what malone and rogan

2:37

actually talked about On, Reagan, shy.

2:40

I'm. Going to take close look at the science

2:42

and also the bigger pizza here because,

2:45

we are going to walk you through the ways that misleading

2:47

claims can confuse into

2:49

believing self that doesn't line up

2:51

with the best science with Got, now

2:54

as always if you want to look at

2:56

any of the evidence that we talk about on. The so

2:58

we have transcript that's full of

3:00

citation receipt for everything

3:03

we, say there's link in there's summer That.

3:08

I'm him if information there's lot of

3:10

its flying around spotify

3:13

to. get out you like what is Then.

3:20

The Panthers, Joe rogan Eminem.

3:26

I'm not gonna have any ads on this episode.

3:28

Did you do need a little brain break? The

3:31

sound of one of my face. But as

3:33

he bad because. about us

3:41

The company block. Right?

3:45

That percent. Today

3:51

we are fact checking the Joe rogan episode

3:53

that everyone's been arms about and.

3:56

what we're going to do in this so it's not

3:58

a sack take that as It but show

4:01

you how we at finds that. The

4:03

thought three the confusing claims.

4:06

That finds that we here. I'm

4:08

hoping that this will descend general

4:11

help you to navigate the world

4:13

of. The information are, you know, even away

4:15

from this episode of Joe rogan And

4:18

to help me with this. I have my trusty

4:20

sidekick producer. It's remark.

4:23

No, I'm wendy. The you about being

4:25

my trusty sidekick?

4:27

I feel emasculated as,.

4:33

well

4:35

Why did you feel? like when

4:38

you were listening to this episode My

4:40

first thought when we were talking about going

4:43

through this episode and breaking it down was

4:45

his, I felt kind of overwhelms because.

4:48

There's a lot going on in this episode,

4:51

they cover lots of stuff so

4:53

much so much, and since he is what we're

4:55

gonna do instead of going through

4:57

the claims one. By one by one.

4:59

We have decided to pick out the path of

5:02

this interview that tell a larger

5:04

story about the general tool

5:06

set you. The over and over again in

5:08

the misinformation game. What we

5:10

do want to say couple of things up front, the

5:12

first is that we reached out

5:14

to both. Joe rogan and Robert

5:16

Malign. I didn't get back

5:19

to us Malone. appointed

5:21

as to some posts online but he

5:23

didn't was Antoine specific questions. Earlier

5:26

this week, Regen said that he's not

5:28

trying to promote misinformation. Malone

5:31

he met believe the things that he said

5:33

in an episode or it let's consider

5:36

that. a bad thing we want to talk to you about something

5:38

you might be familiar with Cherry

5:40

picking the data, yeah. But

5:43

I think the cherry picking is when

5:45

you are just I'm picking.

5:48

out either pieces of information

5:50

or specific studies that support your point

5:52

of view and ignoring any data

5:54

that doesn't support that point of view yes

5:57

exactly and an analysis of misinformation

5:59

around card Nineteen stand that cherry

6:01

picking was a common thing that you

6:03

say and, so it example

6:05

that I want to zoom in on something noticed

6:08

while listening to this Malone interviews with

6:10

what he was talking about his condition called

6:12

my thought I'd it. as

6:15

it is basically inflammation of the heart

6:17

muscle It can. Then

6:20

you a bit like chest pain or

6:22

heart palpitations and. The intended

6:24

to be like shortness of breath. And

6:26

gotten caught by viral infections bad because

6:29

by the things he says that specific disease

6:31

is more like just some that.

6:33

the condition of having some information around your

6:35

heart which can happen from kinds of reasons Exactly

6:38

the and it can be ah, that

6:40

actually in many cases it goes away to

6:42

be treated pretty easily Even have I guess

6:45

information of your heart that is not that big

6:47

of a deal it's kind of weird because it sounds like be horrible

6:49

thing about. that that's right

6:51

that's and you can have very my god

6:54

i'd us when it's close by viruses

6:56

but he's what malone said about

6:59

when people get Myocarditis after

7:01

getting vaccinated. So

7:03

a recent paper out of Hong Kong

7:05

comprehensive analysis. Cardio

7:07

myocarditis in boys

7:10

hospitalized. Okay,

7:11

that makes sense that. Yes,

7:14

that's worth strength. So that's the

7:16

data analysis. So that's

7:18

saying the myocarditis was

7:20

so bad after vaccination.

7:23

These are all verified post-vaccination was

7:27

so bad that you went to the hospital and 2700.

7:30

Dell

7:33

the there's all kind of hand waving Omar

7:37

carditis. This Mild. They recovered

7:39

it. Okay, those statements

7:41

aren't what's a gently based. In

7:43

fact. I

7:45

asked one of the oldest of this paper about this.

7:47

my quine, ah, those statements

7:50

not let's say gently,

7:52

based in fact. I can

7:54

tell you don't think so.

7:55

The think you know station they recover

7:58

and comfy seats.

8:00

Mike is a pediatrician, an expert

8:02

infectious diseases at Princess Margaret

8:04

Hospital in Hong Kong, I was ten team on Sunday

8:06

night. An event

8:08

that the story with this that he begins with

8:10

this reporting system that Hong Kong has

8:13

to pick up side effects from the vaccine, so

8:16

if some people in Hong Kong death like

8:18

a weed symptom of they get the club at nineteen

8:20

back same, he gets reported. Mike

8:23

was the guy in Hong Kong

8:25

that would get pinged his pains in particular

8:28

out the suspected of have.

8:29

My God I'd even. in the middle of the

8:31

nice to am free and

8:33

Getting messages saying we think we have a case

8:35

with the Gather case and then he

8:38

would make sure that these patients for all these

8:40

tests done on them to confirm, "Yeah, this

8:42

is my account at us" The

8:44

oldest monitoring been going on for three

8:46

months in the middle of last year when like

8:48

lots and lots of teams in Hong Kong were getting

8:50

vaccinated so. any

8:52

and any hundred and seventy eight thousand

8:55

saints who were between Twelve

8:58

and seventeen of.

9:00

the mrm a vaccine And

9:02

thirty three of them got my titus,

9:05

most of them voice, and in most

9:07

cases it popped up after the second depths.

9:10

Now, when you zoom in on the stat.

9:13

The boy is. The actually

9:15

did turn out in the study. That

9:18

one in twenty seven hundred just

9:20

what Malign said had my said I'd suggest,

9:23

looking at that Saudi money is right. and

9:25

having anything going wrong with your heart like he could

9:27

it could figure out and i'll make about this

9:30

When you saw the boys who had this with, they scared

9:33

with a worried. There they did, they'd the

9:35

answer to play scare the time.

9:37

There were the okay when I say yes well

9:39

that is the big questions

9:42

like how a. dangerous

9:44

was this so the kids and

9:46

in and you had malone said that

9:48

like the my cut out as was The bad

9:51

that they went to the hospital for it.

9:53

The didn't you if you read the paper

9:56

that Mike, right? Very clear

9:58

that all of the case. One

10:00

mind. In

10:02

fact, my told me that a big reason

10:05

the kids were in the hospital is because

10:07

Mike wanted to do. Will be fancy tests on them

10:09

like cardiac, am I right? The

10:11

on available.

10:12

micah McGill, a doctor's office, all cases

10:14

were hospitalized because we will need to

10:17

perform of these are working for them. They

10:19

didn't need to be there, is so I keep

10:21

them alive. No.

10:23

Not know you're not in fact, he said

10:25

that these patients they all cleared up with

10:28

either pain killers like Ibuprofen.

10:30

Some of them even not require

10:32

medications and saves US

10:35

cigarettes. And eventually

10:37

they recovered by themselves. None,

10:40

none of them cause severe complications

10:42

and no case of votes, Ozzie button.

10:45

And all of them recover and ran

10:48

back home. And so far

10:50

as some thiessen being for

10:52

up around seven months and.

10:54

as very good no problem So

10:57

did is a very good news.

10:59

For the followed the pace and some months now

11:01

and Mike said that they are quote

11:03

says suckling normal and he's

11:06

gonna keep following them up just in case

11:08

something changes in, his bed

11:10

glad they're okay. so

11:13

The, you know, when I think about how

11:15

Malone talked about this study,

11:17

it was only. don't

11:20

know what's going on in his head, but it is felt

11:22

like he trusted and focus

11:24

on. The negative

11:27

things in this study, but then didn't.

11:31

All the perfect is Jarod set it on the

11:33

something and a copy of the city where all the neutral

11:35

and good parts were like blacked

11:38

out like redacted for some reason

11:41

is exactly as.

11:43

says that hogan paper is with

11:45

other research ah say

11:47

this even biggest study that came out of canada

11:50

which had

11:51

Something like a more than three hundred

11:53

thousand boys in that

11:55

same age group and is and

11:57

that the rights of my it's had itis after the. Themes

12:00

were even lower, so in that case

12:02

it's only now study it with roughly one

12:04

in ten thousand and again

12:07

no deaths so like bigger study

12:09

found in even. Dollar risk exact

12:12

thing. Some data

12:14

from that Canada study actually found that

12:16

generally speaking the right of my

12:18

of had I this was even lower

12:20

when people spaced out the doses

12:23

of their vaccine select instead

12:25

of having them a few weeks apart, you

12:27

just waited longer. And you

12:29

know, like when I think about. When

12:31

was listening to the interview with

12:33

Robert Malone and to rug and like.

12:37

don't know where they intended this, the just got this feeling

12:39

like, you know, we really can't trust

12:41

science in the scientists don't care

12:43

or I'm thinking about these rare

12:45

side effects. You know,

12:47

in despite the fact that a mike's

12:50

worth all the cases were miles, despite

12:52

the fact that this is really we're.

12:55

Hong Kong actually changed its policy

12:57

on pins and vaccine. Phil

13:00

reduce the risk of it happening and

13:02

so, yeah, as of December, they've

13:05

now recommended the teams white twelve

13:07

weeks before getting their second sought to the

13:09

spacing an hour so they're taking this

13:11

Miles rare side effect.

13:13

The seriously live. My

13:16

that about it. Even to smile, we don't

13:18

want this to happen. What the policy

13:20

here and we change our policy, it was issues

13:22

with, I think things get really

13:24

nuanced and curious, so image

13:26

us right now, the C.D.C. still recommends

13:29

that kids in this age group get that. Shot three

13:31

weeks apart. And he, he got

13:33

to be awesome. Why that? Good

13:36

reason for our would be because in

13:38

the US in many parts of the U. S. cool,

13:40

Vid, right? Very high very

13:43

high compared to Hong Kong so,

13:46

hong kong is a live

13:48

The bit smaller and population the New

13:50

York City on.

13:52

and i'm just going without being covered rates

13:55

Oh, okay, so like recently when you

13:57

look at seven day of rage them. The

13:59

about it. One hundred and thirteen

14:01

reported cases each day, hundred

14:03

and thirteen. Okay, what are we at

14:06

New York is it like? The other men

14:08

around. Exactly like I've literally

14:10

on my way to get beach in suburb did one

14:12

hundred and thirty people that add Kobe

14:14

to us as. as

14:17

don't throw ah but when

14:19

you look at the daily average in new york city

14:21

it's something like two thousand

14:23

eight hundred you know like that

14:25

the cases so much higher

14:28

it is much more likely to get over here than in hong kong

14:30

that means like when you're doing this cost benefit analysis

14:33

it's like is your chance of

14:35

getting close it is higher That

14:38

your chance of getting complication from

14:40

carpet is higher. And we know

14:42

that kids have less of chance of getting

14:44

really sick. From Kobe. That

14:47

didn't happen in I am obviously

14:49

this kids in the hospital me us right

14:51

now. I've got a bit. And

14:53

so we have to be thinking about

14:55

this and you know if you're worried about my

14:58

aside itis for your kids like

15:00

that is complication of cause it

15:02

you can get my apartheid us from getting

15:04

coven the disease yes.

15:07

in fact one study from the cdc found that one

15:09

in every seven hundred and fifty kids under the

15:11

age of sixteen who got covered Also

15:14

got my cod itis. We did

15:16

hire. Then the risks

15:18

associated with the vaccine. You

15:20

know, I do want to say that. We

15:23

really went down the rabbit hole. The

15:26

see if we could find any.

15:28

Cases of my a con artist from the vaccines

15:31

that would not Miles. The

15:34

knew we eat fine. The

15:36

reports of people who had complications,

15:38

we even found several cases of

15:40

people who had died. The

15:43

vast majority were fine. And

15:45

if you're going searching for the worst

15:47

case scenario thing, you really need to

15:49

be also thinking about. The

15:51

deaths from car of it. I would

15:54

say. Looking at midday dot

15:56

if you are worried about these conditions.

16:00

You know you're worried about my account, I'd it feel

16:02

like you should be more worried. About

16:05

your kids getting conveyed, this is. The

16:08

keep getting a bad thing. Anthony.

16:11

Or it? That he is.

16:14

My story. About? Cherry

16:17

picking the data you don't tell people. How

16:20

how then? The illness we

16:23

kind of vaccinate for can cause complications,

16:25

you. The focus on

16:27

the very, very scary things I

16:29

don't know if he intended. The mix of

16:32

all of this, Ah? Then

16:34

do the a classic case of cherry

16:36

picking.

16:40

Edit the next thing that we're going to talk about

16:42

his ah looking out for anecdotes

16:45

stories, especially like scary or

16:47

like really emotional stories, or this is

16:49

a classic classic. The on and information

16:51

game. Yeah yeah we know

16:54

that anecdotes carry lot more weight

16:56

than they really have any business to

16:59

say. found this gigantic met analysis

17:01

from twenty that looked that sixty

17:04

one studies of what kind of

17:06

information is most persuasive to people

17:08

and so they compared Sec

17:10

than data with and,

17:12

ago

17:13

And live on, as sometimes people are

17:15

totally like interested in hearing

17:18

the statistical data to make decisions.

17:21

One big exception to that is when they're

17:23

making a decision that affects their own house

17:25

oh. wow Yeah,

17:27

especially as there are is possible

17:30

severe consequences so

17:32

in that case people.

17:34

are more likely to believe an anecdote

17:36

than they are to listen to that is

17:39

so interesting and it's funny because like

17:41

That's probably when you should be relying

17:43

on stats the most is that you

17:45

know serious medical decisions

17:48

I. heard manning's else manning's this episode on

17:51

episode here's an example of i'm talking about Though

17:53

I took two doses of Maduro. With

17:56

the second dose developed. Stage

17:59

three, hyper two. Then. The

18:01

store with blood pressure of up to two thirty.

18:04

Hey, I'm like it be law.

18:06

What it means is, I've had a stress

18:08

test of my aorta and Pfizer

18:10

cerebral, vascular system, and I didn't have a

18:12

stroke and I didn't tear my article shreds,

18:15

but it's a good thing

18:17

he's saying that came that

18:20

came from the vaccine to the context serious, he's

18:23

saying that people who got covered.

18:25

Before they got vaccinated, had a worse

18:28

reaction to the vaccine and he's one

18:30

of those people he that covert in any got vaccinated

18:32

right, and he's saying his reaction was so bad

18:34

he is basically implying he nearly died.

18:37

I'm lucky my a or

18:39

and terrell to shreds.

18:40

Yeah yeah that's a memorable line

18:43

so is am I. guess bessie

18:45

get very powerful anecdote

18:48

Is it true is any of that I

18:50

mean obviously don't? know what happened to him

18:52

personally but is this a thing that happens

18:55

that if you get covered and then get

18:57

then back The same symptoms can be worse.

19:00

Yeah, own, and we can't say what happened, I'm alone that

19:02

we're moving beyond any doubt, which is the whole

19:04

point of cyan. No,

19:07

I wouldn't do this, and did find a couple studies

19:09

that ask this question, and they did say that

19:11

actually there's some evidence that.

19:13

If you had Kobe before you die, you covered

19:16

shot, you might have worst side effects from

19:18

the vaccine, okay, months

19:20

city that followed people who were describing their symptoms

19:23

over time whether they had covered with, and

19:25

then after they got vaccine. They

19:27

found that and.

19:29

If you would never had called in before you got your for

19:32

with Pfizer, your chances of getting a flu,

19:34

We of side effects from the vaccine are

19:37

about 1 + 5. Got it. But

19:39

if you had covid, before he got your shot,

19:41

your eyes were more like one, and three that

19:43

you have like a flu like, okay,

19:45

so you aren't slightly higher risk if you had covered,

19:47

then got the vaccine?

19:49

I'm getting you said flu like symptoms, what does

19:51

that involve and this is that like fatigue

19:53

and headaches, it's like feeling crummy, and the researcher

19:56

told me that said side effects cleared

19:58

up on their own and they weren't dangerous. Oh,

20:00

okay, and them alone discovered that.

20:02

To. Be scary,

20:04

like a order thing states three hypertension,

20:07

how common is that when these studies they

20:09

don't report anything like that and so this is

20:12

falling group of more? than fourteen thousand people

20:14

sit inside, okay, I get the diseases like a very

20:17

specific. The situation

20:19

he was talking about where. You

20:21

have had close it and then you get the vaccine

20:24

and. What if we just

20:26

like look at people generally,

20:28

I generally when you get the

20:30

vaccine, can you have? Page

20:32

three, hypertensive.

20:34

Yeah I one minute to and look

20:36

for that did find a report of

20:38

nine people in Switzerland who

20:41

had stage three hypertension after

20:43

they got their vaccine they're all over

20:45

the age of fifty this is that of thousands

20:47

of people by the way so. that

20:49

he just talks about lenny you know it could be

20:51

rare side effects and if it

20:54

is he so have to weigh it again sir risk

20:56

of getting similar

20:58

Then. Issue from Culver and am in know

21:00

that covid. The disease can

21:02

mess up your cardiovascular system, you

21:05

know, the serious way of being like it

21:07

could stop your heart if you die from it, right?

21:09

So like

21:12

again what you said earlier So it's a risk benefit

21:14

If

21:14

you

21:16

want another attic dirt, I got quite

21:19

a and think of my booster

21:21

shot and it

21:23

was fine. And

21:24

I know a few that got covid in 2020

21:27

and got back sooner than and twenty and we're

21:29

perfectly fine. My shoulder had little there was

21:31

so sorry.

21:36

Is this still thinking about that? I a ordered

21:38

it, My open, but

21:40

that's the thing. I sent you. Going to

21:42

the pharmacy to get your booster. Whatever you just

21:44

thinking, torn aorta. Aorta to shreds, shreds

21:46

a it because Frankie, it's

21:49

at 6.

21:51

And there's one more thing. I want to bring up here. So

21:54

we know that stories can be really

21:56

good at grabbing our attention and our

21:58

emotions, and they can The be more memorable

22:01

than to series death. You know that

22:03

because we use them on our show

22:05

on science vs we often have anecdotes

22:08

and are episodes but.

22:11

like i don't mean to put smoke up

22:13

my and on us but like when

22:15

we use anecdotes

22:17

we

22:18

I really careful to use them to

22:20

try to represent the bigger picture

22:23

of science, right it's to illustrate

22:25

a point that we see in the data.

22:27

That I don't know the take Linus

22:30

like politically, isn't a?

22:32

If you hear a story on science

22:34

podcast, you should run screaming, but

22:37

you also want to be listening your data that backs

22:40

up, whatever story trying to you.

22:43

Off to the bank. Can the

22:45

vaccine mess up your you

22:47

know he get the needle and the damage

22:50

done we, dive into the science.

22:53

and you might be surprised Eminem

22:57

and.

23:00

Then take a break.

23:03

Referring to the sound of wind blowing

23:05

on the beach.

23:25

hoping That can I am, so we're looking

23:28

into the interview that Joe rogan deed with

23:30

Robert Malone, where they talk about the covered

23:32

nineteen vaccines and people have

23:35

been very upset about. This interview saying

23:37

that it is peddling mis information

23:39

so when taking a closer look. You

23:42

know we just keep searching for hot

23:44

and cold hard facts around

23:46

Miss Don't, we produce

23:48

the roads rimless who is he to help me

23:50

yes hi wendy the next big

23:52

were going to talk about that was happening in this in The be

23:55

in what I'm going to call the can marry

23:57

in the coal mine effect and,

23:59

it says The ya. The didn't learn

24:02

a, thing that some people have seen.

24:05

is signal for something

24:07

that much larger and much

24:09

more dangerous

24:11

And. I have noticed

24:14

this. Why don't want him the?

24:17

And we've been calling it misinformation game

24:20

but. here is example that i The focus

24:22

on. The Enigma line into the.

24:25

That's how he talks about

24:27

how. the show The might be affecting our

24:29

security and, The

24:32

me into the this kind of sauce with Malone's

24:34

discussion with rogan about menstruation,

24:37

oh, I love, love when men tell me about my site

24:40

applied to go administration are

24:42

heavily.

24:43

That it there's. a huge

24:45

number of dismantle real men are metro roger

24:47

wouldn't wear those this is alterations and

24:49

menzies to him The

24:52

right there is it as a huge issue stairs

24:54

in they deny it. Though

24:56

are people than I get sick?

24:59

Going on here divide. out i

25:01

called up dump their victoria male

25:04

ah Hey, Dan Reicher,

25:06

hey let me British a reproduction.

25:09

Immunologist at Imperial College

25:11

London and, at first i asked

25:13

her if she thought that scientists

25:15

had been denied In this period,

25:18

vaccine's possible connection.

25:20

The Uva a fly that because

25:22

I didn't really be further from the trees

25:25

so he. did take little while

25:27

for people to start taking this and

25:29

say seriously that fit many hats

25:31

into studying at birth see

25:34

this is something that keeps have been talking about

25:36

for ten minutes

25:38

He's a fair thing that keep trees

25:40

that is off that the vaccines might

25:42

be messing with periods.

25:45

The different countries have the official

25:47

systems where people. The report we'd

25:49

reactions from the vaccine or. We

25:51

talked about as similar one in Hong

25:53

Kong and. what They

25:57

started noticing in the UK and the US

25:59

is that. He was added

26:01

going to this reporting system and saying my

26:03

career and has changed after the vaccine

26:06

and. and People with

26:09

same is that the NIH actually

26:11

handed out one point six seven million

26:14

dollars to scientists to study

26:16

this and. That

26:18

was available, it was there was a press release

26:20

about it. Month before

26:22

the rogue, an interview, and so is

26:24

there was research happening?

26:26

Yeah seven is no bloody

26:28

cover up know,

26:30

Rams no one with padding the days her,.

26:33

sister what i heard this

26:35

to actually had heard it around that like their backs

26:37

getting the vaccine change your period think

26:39

for some people have cell

26:41

I. Get and I'm curious like is it actually

26:44

true I get, will the results

26:46

of one of the study is that the NIH funded

26:49

AH has already come out now it was?

26:51

Not available at the time of Malone's

26:53

interview, but we have it now, Ah, so

26:55

what does this science tell us or this

26:58

study was published in L. E. Jan and

27:00

what? They did is they got almost

27:02

four thousand people who had been using a period

27:05

tracking and liquidity. that's

27:07

where you log like when you get your period

27:09

and then they also tracked you

27:11

know if these people got vaccinated when they got

27:13

vaccinated and didn't analysis

27:15

seceded getting the vaccine

27:18

Change your period. I'm

27:20

not make them with on average speed.

27:24

Yeah but. it was buy less

27:27

than a day Okay.

27:30

If I hear the the. Warrior, yeah. If

27:33

everything that they could change, but

27:35

it's really small.

27:37

Right now, that sat of less than a day, it's an average,

27:39

so that means that for some people in

27:41

the study states. It didn't change by

27:44

more I'm take this. Especially

27:46

true that people who got the

27:48

two shots in the same cycle

27:51

and in that case for some of them, their periods

27:54

came around to date like flat,

27:56

the real thing is, I have to say, was like a little

27:58

skeptical. The that.

28:00

The into think that there is like a real effect, get

28:02

Moblin reason I was skeptical, the that it's like all why

28:04

on earth would that have anything to

28:06

do with your period? Don't have exactly

28:08

the mechanism, but we can. I'm

28:11

guessing educated guesses.

28:13

The to I don't mean that the reason this might be happening

28:16

is. because i am we know

28:19

that sex or mine It's

28:21

pretty big role in when we get our periods

28:23

and can affect the. immune system and the

28:25

immune system can affect sex hormones

28:27

it's over.

28:28

intimately connected in the wonder that is

28:30

our bodies it's AH and so it's possible

28:32

that when we give the immune system a

28:35

big stimulus big steamy

28:37

patted seems he will like vaccine

28:39

that. that could affect your menstrual

28:42

cycle

28:43

But here is what's really important

28:45

in this period piece.

28:48

What does that he found is that often. The man.

28:52

The book period.

28:53

They went back to normal, we didn't see cycle

28:56

in to say this is a real change,

28:58

but we can detect city that's

29:01

normal. Ready to play.

29:03

Then. You get that opiates into this picture

29:05

that it really could be an immune system reaction

29:07

that happens after we get the vaccine

29:09

and the immune system settles down, appearance go.

29:12

Back to normal life is a hunky dory

29:14

no, seriously to more studies have come out

29:16

looking at periods but focusing

29:19

on having unexpected or heavy

29:21

bleeding. and they actually

29:23

found that yes be covered vaccines

29:26

ten increase your risk of this stuff

29:28

happening

29:30

But you know like one said he said

29:32

at the changes weren't dangerous and

29:34

would probably short term still.

29:37

though you know when i Listen

29:39

to him alone, talk about the yes. The

29:42

me anyway, you really sounded like he was

29:44

saying that these changes from. The vaccine.

29:47

The periods we could

29:49

be a sign of something bigger

29:51

like this: A vaccines are also messing with

29:53

al sexually. That's

29:56

why we call this the canary of the coal mine

29:58

affect the periods are. Line of

30:00

security problems, so,

30:02

for example, he said that he was asked to testify

30:05

to the his city to Rabbinical Court in

30:07

New York and. You can take from that.

30:09

It turns out that the Rabbis in

30:11

the Hasidic Jewish community carefully monitor

30:14

we don't need to go into how AH,

30:16

the bench full cycle of the with fertile

30:18

women. in there and conversations

30:22

closely monitor it because very

30:24

strict I'm guidance about

30:26

cleanliness and intercourse. And

30:30

they had a major problem. Because

30:32

they please me you know these are all

30:35

sixty plus up to eighty long

30:37

beards fraker that.

30:39

had Squeeze it understanding

30:42

about the menstrual cycle in all the

30:44

women in their congregations and,

30:47

they all knew That these

30:49

menstrual cycles were being disrupted

30:51

all the time and for them this is major

30:53

crisis because it meant

30:56

that. If you're if you're in the Hasidic

30:58

community increasing, the size

31:00

of the, population of acidic Jesus

31:02

kind of important to. you i'm it's

31:04

central important them and this was

31:07

major threat to reproductive health

31:09

in their communities

31:11

Now they have been some questions around how

31:13

he represented rabbinical rules

31:15

and the Hasidic community of just

31:17

get a leave that where we founded

31:19

focus on the science of I.

31:21

will say that. They

31:23

don't want some punk is to me

31:25

that if our periods are being. Acted by

31:27

the back themes. That

31:30

could be having an effect on our facility,

31:33

right? That. We

31:36

don't need to go to a Rabbinical

31:38

court to settle this one because.

31:41

We have. The actual scientific

31:44

data on this? Not

31:47

mentioned on the show, Ah.

31:50

So even in the early days

31:52

of the vaccine trials I'm

31:55

we started to get some includes that

31:57

the that things didn't seem to be affecting our facilities.

32:00

The have listen to try again.

32:02

Even in a clinical trials and the participants

32:05

were asked not to become pregnant. These

32:08

are very large trial and didn't

32:10

happen.

32:11

stuck in lockdown, stupid, you can get my

32:13

hands exactly.

32:15

I can see for think he's funny and the vaccinated

32:18

and unvaccinated of the trial.

32:21

We were getting shot with a placebo, you would have

32:23

the same chance of getting pregnant as if you were getting shot

32:25

with their actual.

32:26

[Laughing ] exactly that's what we

32:28

already started to realize once

32:30

we were getting the clinical trial data snap, not

32:32

that many people did get pregnant in either

32:35

arm of the trial because. People

32:37

were told to use contraception because

32:39

scientists were being careful,'cause cause I didn't,

32:42

they didn't know what was going to happen, so

32:44

they want. People to get pregnant, yeah, makes us

32:46

some alone, didn't mention any of this on

32:48

the so are we don't know he knew about it or

32:50

not. They were other

32:53

studies around at the time that have looked

32:55

at the vaccines and all sorts of stuff

32:57

related to fertility. My

32:59

does it mess up your eggs doesn't mess up

33:01

your sperm. The them for

33:03

studies that came out before that

33:05

show, and some of them were in people doing

33:08

I've yes. None of them.

33:10

Sound bad effects from the vaccine

33:13

on. The of the they. didn't affect

33:15

a bunch of these different like parameters that

33:17

measure fertility exactly We

33:21

driving is pretty important to

33:23

tell people when you are. Telling

33:25

people about how vaccines might affect fertility,

33:27

he was just have all these pieces in the puzzle

33:30

suggesting that the vaccines aren't affecting

33:32

our fatality. That was just no

33:34

way to be seen on the episode right right,

33:36

I mean, it's more find the time.

33:37

That about your advice to,

33:41

do. a

33:43

good other way to look at all the is this

33:46

He didn't know about those studies.

33:49

Another example of cherry picking that's

33:51

a really good classic cherry that game like.

33:54

You can make a great pie out of others, Jerry's,

33:56

ah, that sasso our audience knows as

33:58

since the era of that rug.

34:00

Partner isn't even clearer a

34:02

date us to suggest that the vaccines don't

34:04

affect our fertility, ah, he is

34:06

this study that we have become. It told me about

34:08

it.

34:09

Look at a cohort of more than

34:11

three thousand couples who are trying to conceive

34:13

of the costs about ten months and.

34:15

an awesome it's testing with them every

34:17

couple of months he died since last time we

34:19

texas has it from texas He

34:22

didn't ask me to pay. on

34:25

top of the says it made no reference to the

34:27

couple chance of becoming pregnant sweater with

34:29

the female partner or the map on

34:31

Even in fact, that the city pay is

34:34

some kind of the edge. That made me the

34:36

phone.

34:37

A female partner, the cool kids, that

34:39

the male partner for a bitch, Satsuma,

34:42

it was it. Trump, couple would conceive.

34:45

Ah, that's insists that in naval.

34:48

It should be teaching facility.

34:52

Temporarily for two days. vaccines

34:55

don't have an effect.

34:56

The fertility, but in

34:58

people with span.

35:01

Getting hope it does. Yeah that.

35:04

is that he said that when i

35:06

And we are getting so. you know if you

35:08

really want to have a kid and are worried about your

35:10

facility Then you got testicles

35:13

it, it seems to me like you. The trying to avoid

35:15

Kobe. Not the mac think

35:17

make sense to me. "The

35:20

final thing that I want to talk about just quickly

35:23

is this", said no money and of

35:25

seeding deaths in the assembly. Men

35:27

and given off this feeling of a conspiracy

35:29

theories. I don't know where the

35:31

malone intended to do this. Gave

35:34

me this feeling that like

35:36

you contrast the media the CDC

35:39

the scientific consensus it's.

35:41

the whole The conspiracy, mean

35:43

that look into this. What we're

35:46

experiencing?

35:47

"The is a coordinated media warfare,

35:50

the level of which we have never seen before,

35:53

and I my peers who were experienced

35:56

in multiple outbreaks have never seen

35:59

this level" The of coordinated

36:01

propaganda. I can't imagine

36:03

something. The actually

36:05

you tend to say with conspiracy theories.

36:08

Ah, you.

36:09

People who are promoting

36:12

them off the descent says, "like I

36:14

know something you don't know" Which

36:16

is fine, like everyone wants to

36:18

be. involved in Gaza of

36:20

Street near be the smartest person the room in

36:22

separate smartest person in the room you,

36:24

know and once you do that once you

36:27

say I know something you don't and

36:29

you can't trust the establishment. he

36:32

didn't who are you less to trust The

36:35

line, right? Which

36:37

is why what he said towards the

36:39

end of the show. Really struck

36:41

me. He was talking about. How

36:44

we're all just see bowl? The

36:46

fancy on the say, they say, basically. The

36:49

answer is mess formation

36:51

psychosis. When you have a society.

36:54

The has become decoupled from each

36:56

other.

36:57

And has free floating anxiety

37:00

in a sense that things don't make

37:02

sense. We can't understand

37:05

it. And then their attention

37:07

gets focus by a leader or series

37:09

of events on one small

37:11

point, dislike hypnosis. Then.

37:15

Literally become hypnotized in can

37:17

be lead anywhere in.

37:20

one of the aspects of that sonoma

37:22

is the people that they identify as their leaders

37:25

The ones typically the come in and

37:28

say you have this pain

37:30

and I can solve it for you, and alone.

37:33

They can fix this problem for U

37:36

K. then they will lead they will follow

37:38

that person

37:40

And you know it?

37:42

No says think that is going too far,

37:45

but the research does show that

37:47

when allied still. Control,

37:49

we do tend to look for stability elsewhere

37:51

to cope with this anxiety. Does

37:54

it give you a sense of security when

37:56

the is as some? You can trust and be

37:59

thinking minute. The totally bonkers

38:02

someone is telling you are gonna be all right, you

38:04

are going to be alright, I have the solution. That

38:06

as was listening to this episode,

38:09

couldn't help but feel.

38:11

That. The line

38:13

himself. I'm

38:16

not the intended to do this at all. Then

38:18

he will. Weeping

38:21

as into a frenzy like making

38:23

nice. ill anxious about

38:26

not trusting. The

38:28

establishment in the things I'm hearing. The

38:31

men. He was offering solution

38:34

which. Then. I

38:37

he talked about the next in and, like, when

38:39

can talk about that. Maybe save for another

38:41

day, it's not the solution, by the way have looked

38:44

into it. Then

38:46

just found that. So

38:48

ironic. By ah.

38:52

you know of mean, my, the

38:54

thing that makes me really want to scream.

38:56

And they have made me want to seem that with another

38:58

thing to the podcast, especially as it wrapped

39:00

up, and I realized that they kind of

39:03

miss. And anytime soon

39:05

as Monday, a little bit with the market

39:07

itself, but in general. They.

39:10

are not talking about the studies that show

39:13

that vaccines work, they just don't

39:15

mention them and their digital mention

39:18

any of the positive and so, like he said,

39:20

vaccines are a risk benefit

39:22

analysis with the risk of the shots"

39:25

The risk of the illness and, in this

39:27

episode it seems like they don't really consider

39:30

the benefits of the vaccines at all

39:32

it's like they're making big pro

39:34

con lists. and they're

39:36

just reading south and the concert and are

39:38

not ready anything in ready pro side Though.

39:41

That make the kind of frustrating seal.

39:43

I personally like little tidbits of criticisms

39:46

or studies have a like side

39:49

or weird mechanisms of like, oh,

39:51

is that true that, he says, that "Us, when

39:53

actually like big picture, their

39:56

miss seeing this like really

39:58

good data, we have fun" Real

40:00

people in the real world.

40:02

Showing that if you get vaccinated,

40:04

you're less likely to get coven your

40:06

last time that he got sick and are less likely to die, and

40:08

I mean the latest data we have, it looks at almost

40:11

half a million people with coven this

40:13

is during Omicron in the U.S.

40:15

And it shows that I'm vaccinated people

40:17

are twenty three times more likely

40:19

to be hospitalized.

40:21

From? People who are too fat and a booster, and

40:24

you know this data is new, they didn't

40:26

have it at the time of that interview for the

40:28

had gobs of other studies. That show something

40:30

similar that vaccines keep you

40:32

at the hospital and so it's not

40:34

talk about that in your conversation about the south.

40:37

The me feels completely lopsided

40:39

and as. Quick, the major problem

40:41

I have here. Well said Rice

40:44

while said. The wendy.

40:53

The and.

40:54

One more night and going three this

40:56

episode of Regen South.

41:00

The hearing. The misleading

41:02

south in there was pretty frustrating. The

41:04

not fly on Monday, me

41:06

and out landed a blood trail announced on Twitter

41:09

that until. Modify improves

41:11

it's policies. We are going to make

41:13

any more new signs that this episodes.

41:17

Note intended to counteract misinformation.

41:20

Right on the platform. Which

41:22

I should say is bigger than Joe rogan Now,

41:26

the older been a correction in this episode

41:29

when we first published this app, we

41:31

said that we only found one

41:33

reported case of someone who had died

41:35

from my con artist after. In carpet

41:37

back things. We went back

41:39

and rechecked out work, and we actually

41:42

say. Eberle, more death. Hey,

41:44

we fix it in this version of the episode,

41:47

and I'm this really sorry we didn't catch that the first

41:49

time. Now,

41:51

like we said at the beginning of the show, "If

41:53

you want to look into any of the things

41:55

that we talked about on the So any of the studies

41:58

you want to dive into the details" Please do

42:00

in the show now you'll see link to transcript

42:03

with all the citations in them is

42:05

more than hundred and fifty

42:08

he. said Go to yourself

42:10

and. The family.

42:16

Mark.