0:01

Due to the nature of this

0:03

episode, listener discretion is advised. This

0:05

episode includes discussions of murder, violence,

0:07

and suicide. Consider this

0:09

when deciding how and when you'll listen. To

0:12

get help on mental

0:15

health and suicide, visit

0:17

spotify.com/resources. On

0:21

the evening of September

0:23

20th, 2003, Bill Rothstein

0:26

scurried down his driveway, hopped in

0:28

his van, and sped away. Then

0:31

he pulled out a cell phone and dialed 911. Heart

0:36

pounding, Bill explained that there was a suspicious

0:38

woman at 8645 Peach Street, and

0:42

there was a body inside the

0:45

garage freezer. The operator

0:47

was skeptical. How would Bill

0:49

know about a body at that address? Bill

0:52

responded that the house was his,

0:55

and the woman inside was Marjorie

0:57

Deal Armstrong. He said he

0:59

had helped her do some stuff he

1:01

shouldn't have, but that he'd never killed

1:03

anybody. The operator said the

1:05

authorities would need to question him anyway,

1:08

and Bill promised to stop by the

1:10

station later that night. Little

1:12

did the police know this was the first

1:14

in a chain of clues that would lead

1:17

them not only to Jim

1:19

Roden's dead body, but

1:21

to the perpetrators behind Brian Wells'

1:23

bank robbery and death. Bill

1:27

himself was a key player, but

1:30

he wouldn't live to see the

1:32

case unravel. I'm

1:35

Vanessa Richardson, host of Serial Killers,

1:38

a Spotify podcast. You can find

1:40

us here every Monday. And be

1:42

sure to check us out on

1:44

Instagram at Serial Killers podcast. To

1:47

conclude our discussion on the pizza bomber,

1:49

I'm once again joined by my friend

1:51

and host of conspiracy theories, Carter Roy.

1:53

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weeks after Brian Wells'

3:20

failed robbery and death, Marjorie Deal Armstrong and her

3:22

co-conspirator Bill Rothstein scrambled to cover their tracks.

3:28

One of their first moves was to silence

3:30

Robert Panetti, Brian's

3:32

co-worker who had convinced him to take part

3:34

in the plot. With the

3:36

help of another accomplice, Ken Barnes, they

3:41

slipped Robert a lethal cocktail. Meanwhile,

3:43

local authorities and the Pennsylvania FBI office

3:45

were piecing together the few details they

3:48

knew about Brian Wells' death.

3:50

He had clearly been murdered. The

3:54

FBI had been involved in the murder of Robert Panetti. In

3:58

the wake of the murder, a

4:00

hostage, and Robert Panetti's death indicated that

4:02

a larger crew was at work. After

4:05

all, why would two employees from the

4:07

same pizza restaurant turn up dead within

4:10

days of each other unless

4:12

they had been pawned in the same

4:14

robbery? Then, on

4:16

September 20th, investigators learned

4:19

of a third body. Bill's

4:21

phone call tipped them off to

4:24

the murder of Marjorie's boyfriend, 45-year-old

4:26

Jim Roden. Marjorie had

4:28

killed him weeks before the robbery even

4:30

took place. Now, his

4:32

body was stashed inside a freezer

4:35

in Bill's garage. Bill

4:37

and Marjorie had planned to dismember Jim's

4:39

frozen body with an ice crusher and

4:41

get rid of the pieces. But

4:44

Bill had another scheme in mind

4:46

to serve Marjorie to the police. At

4:49

8.14 p.m., he slipped out of his house

4:52

and called 911. Bill

4:54

told officials about the body in his

4:56

freezer and gave them permission to search

4:58

his house, though he refused

5:01

to return home until he knew they

5:03

had arrested Marjorie. By

5:05

now, he knew better than to cross

5:08

her and show his face, at

5:10

least not until they were in court. An

5:15

hour later, Bill called the police

5:18

again, asking if Marjorie had been

5:20

apprehended. Despite having an essential role

5:22

in the entire plot, Bill now

5:24

played the part of a frightened

5:26

accessory to Marjorie. He even

5:29

told the authorities he was experiencing

5:31

suicidal ideation. He offered to

5:33

drive down to the police barracks so they could

5:35

talk further. Bill noted

5:37

that as long as the police didn't

5:40

read him his Miranda rights, he would

5:42

provide them with information off

5:45

the record. He was already crafting a

5:47

deal for himself, and the police readily

5:49

agreed. Bill arrived

5:51

at the police barracks around 10 p.m.

5:54

and provided them with a slew

5:56

of testimony implicating Marjorie in the death

5:58

of Jim Rodin. Through

6:01

it all, Bill was careful to say

6:03

nothing that would connect him to the

6:05

Brian Wells case or Robert Panetti's death.

6:08

He was there to clear himself of

6:10

Jim's murder, not to be incriminated in

6:12

a different murder. Early

6:16

the next morning, state troopers barged

6:18

into Bill's home on Peachtree. Inside

6:21

they found Jim Roden's body in

6:24

the garage freezer, just as Bill

6:26

had promised. She

6:28

was there too. Apparently, after Bill had

6:31

taken off, she was still determined to

6:33

get rid of Roden's body herself. And

6:36

for someone with a notoriously quick temper,

6:38

she didn't put up a fight. She

6:41

went calmly with the arresting officers, saying

6:43

nothing except that she'd had a history

6:45

of poor luck with men. Meanwhile,

6:48

FBI agent Jerry Clark

6:51

awoke to a phone call telling him

6:53

to report to the house next to

6:55

the TV tower on Peachtree. A

6:57

third body had been found. Clark's

7:01

eyes grew wide. Brian had referenced

7:03

that very same TV tower in

7:05

the minutes before his death. In

7:08

fact, the authorities had already visited that

7:10

house in the days following the bombing

7:12

to ask if Bill had seen any

7:14

suspicious activity. There wasn't

7:17

any evidence directly linking this murder to

7:19

the first two, but as Clark drove

7:21

over to Bill's house, he couldn't help

7:23

but feel it was all

7:25

connected. When

7:27

they entered the house, Clark and

7:29

the other investigators quickly realized that

7:31

Bill was a hoarder. They

7:34

had to wade through piles of

7:36

junk to identify any relevant evidence,

7:39

but their persistence paid off. They

7:42

found the ice crusher and a revolver

7:44

on the seat of a broken down

7:46

van outside. To

7:48

their surprise, they also found

7:50

a letter written by Bill

7:53

suggesting he'd planned to take his own

7:55

life before he decided to go to

7:58

the police instead. read,

8:00

Police, my body is in the bedroom

8:03

on the first floor in the southeast

8:05

corner of the house. One,

8:07

this has nothing to do with the Wells

8:09

case. Two, the body in

8:11

the freezer in the garage is

8:13

Jim Rodin. Three, I did

8:16

not kill him nor participate in his

8:18

death. Eric

8:28

was stunned. This was the

8:31

first time all night and morning that

8:34

Bill had brought up Brian

8:36

Wells. Why would

8:38

he go out of his way to mention

8:40

the Wells case in his suicide note if

8:42

he wasn't involved? Exactly.

8:44

Back at the police barracks, the

8:47

officers pressed Marjorie for information. She

8:49

declined to make a formal statement,

8:51

but she did offer an interesting

8:53

piece of information. Bill

8:55

Rothstein had recently allowed a convicted

8:57

rapist to hide out at his

9:00

house. His name was Floyd

9:02

Stockton. Later

9:05

that day, they traced Floyd to

9:07

his girlfriend's apartment and arrested him.

9:10

Floyd admitted to Clark and the

9:12

other FBI agents that he had

9:14

just moved out of Bill's house

9:16

about two or three weeks prior.

9:18

This placed him at Peach Street on

9:20

the day of the robbery. However,

9:23

when Floyd was questioned about

9:25

his involvement in Brian Wells'

9:27

death, he offered a suspicious

9:29

account. Floyd claimed that

9:31

at 3 p.m. on August 28th,

9:33

roughly 18 minutes before

9:35

Brian died, he heard a knock on

9:38

the front door of Bill's house. He

9:40

had looked out the window and noticed

9:42

a police cruiser and rather than answer

9:44

the door, he turned on the TV

9:46

to check the news. Clark

9:49

was astounded by Floyd's tail.

9:52

Why would anyone turn on the news to

9:54

determine why a police cruiser was parked outside

9:57

of their home unless

9:59

they knew a major crime was

10:01

unfolding. It seemed to him like

10:03

Floyd was just shooting from a hip. Floyd

10:06

was given a lie detector test but

10:08

he managed to foil it. However,

10:11

Clark remained leery. Regardless

10:15

of Clark's suspicions, his

10:17

FBI superiors trusted the test

10:19

and moved to clear Floyd

10:21

as a suspect. Floyd

10:23

was still made to answer for existing rape

10:25

charges and sentenced to two years

10:28

in prison, but during that

10:30

time he would be off limits for further

10:32

questioning. Meanwhile,

10:35

Marjorie was quickly charged in the

10:37

murder of Jim Roden thanks to

10:39

Bill's statements. She neither

10:42

admitted nor objected to the charges

10:44

against her. Instead,

10:46

she continued to exercise her

10:48

Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

10:52

Bill, however, was happy to keep

10:54

talking, provided he was given protection.

10:57

As authorities drafted the criminal complaint

10:59

against Marjorie, Brad Folk, the

11:01

district attorney, agreed to consider charging

11:03

Bill with a lighter crime as

11:06

long as he would provide testimony against

11:08

Marjorie in court. On

11:11

September 21st, the day after

11:13

Jim's body was found, police

11:15

officials questioned Bill for nearly

11:17

five hours. He detailed

11:19

Jim's murder and the subsequent plot

11:21

to dispose of evidence. Through it

11:24

all, he maintained that he

11:26

had only ever assisted Marjorie because he

11:28

was afraid of her. As

11:31

Clark waited his turn to interview

11:33

Bill, he continued mulling over the

11:35

suicide note. Why would Bill

11:37

go out of his way to deny his

11:39

participation in the Brian Wells case? Clark

11:42

was beginning to suspect that Bill had

11:44

planted evidence to twist the facts in

11:47

his favor, and

11:49

this manipulation was about to show

11:51

its true colors. Soon

11:53

as Clark walked into the interrogation room,

11:55

Bill looked up and said, let

11:58

me get this out of the way first. I'm

12:00

the smartest guy in this room." This

12:03

was just the first of many ways

12:05

in which Bill would struggle to control

12:07

the conversation. He refused

12:09

to speak in anything but hypothetical

12:11

statements, and he often turned the

12:13

questioning on to Clark. He

12:16

was even physically demanding, constantly

12:18

shifting from chair to chair,

12:20

complaining that he couldn't get

12:22

comfortable. Clark, however, was

12:24

unfazed, and after some preliminary questioning,

12:26

he cut to the chase. He

12:29

pressed Bill about the events of

12:31

August 28th, the day of Brian

12:33

Wells' death. Bill had

12:35

his alibi ready. He said

12:37

he had picked up Marjorie at the local

12:39

Walmart and spent the day with her in

12:42

a nearby town before dropping her back off

12:44

at Walmart that evening. When

12:46

he was asked about the call he placed from

12:48

the Shell station, Bill conceded that

12:50

he had probably been there some time

12:53

on August 28th since it was so

12:55

close to his home. He

12:57

casually mentioned that he may have

12:59

even used the payphone. At

13:01

last, Agent Clark decided it was

13:03

time to use Bill's arrogance against

13:05

him. He knew that

13:07

Bill couldn't resist the opportunity to prove

13:09

his intelligence, and so Clark asked him

13:12

point blank why he thought Brian Wells

13:14

wouldn't have gone straight to the police

13:16

after having a bomb put around his neck.

13:19

Bill took the bait, launching

13:21

into a long-winded explanation.

13:24

He told Clark that the bombers may

13:27

have put electrical charges in the collar

13:29

to ensure that Brian would stay on

13:31

his route. He said they

13:33

might have even used a radio-controlled

13:35

transmission to detonate the bomb. And

13:38

by now, Bill was on a roll, eager

13:40

to show off his knowledge of explosives.

13:42

He said that if he wanted to

13:44

build the collar, hypothetically, of course, he

13:47

would have used smokeless powder from

13:50

shotgun shells. Clark

13:52

listened with suppressed satisfaction. He

13:55

had successfully leveraged Bill's need to be

13:57

the smartest person in the room. Now,

13:59

he's a smart person. He was convinced

14:01

that not only had Bill participated in

14:04

the Brian Wells case, he had played

14:06

the role of puppeteer, orchestrating at least

14:08

the bomb, if not the entire plot.

14:11

Like Floyd, Bill passed his

14:13

polygraph test, but Clark

14:15

was unimpressed by this. Investigators

14:18

had actually found instructions in

14:21

Bill's home on how to

14:23

outsmart lie detectors. And

14:26

yet, despite all the evidence, Clark's

14:28

FBI peers were sure that Bill

14:30

was not their man. They

14:34

still couldn't comprehend why someone who lived

14:36

so close to the TV tower would

14:38

plot a crime right there. It

14:41

seemed too careless for someone like Bill, who

14:43

at least attempted to think one step ahead

14:45

of the police. Okay, so

14:47

far Clark didn't have enough evidence to

14:49

indict Bill in the Pizza Bomber case,

14:51

but he wasn't completely off the hook.

14:54

On October 9th, the Pennsylvania police charged

14:57

Bill Rothstein with four crimes in connection

14:59

to the Jim Roden murder. Abuse

15:01

of a corpse, conspiring to abuse

15:04

a corpse, tampering with evidence, and

15:07

conspiring to tamper with evidence. Bill

15:10

was released on bond and waved his

15:12

right to a preliminary hearing. In

15:14

accordance with his plea bargain, he went

15:16

on to testify against Marjorie at her

15:19

preliminary hearing. It would

15:21

be the first time in months

15:23

that the two masterminds met face

15:25

to face. On

15:34

January 20th, 2004, five

15:37

months after Brian Wells' death, Bill

15:40

Rothstein sat in the witness chair

15:42

at the Erie County Courthouse. He

15:45

testified that his former friend,

15:47

Marjorie Deal Armstrong, had murdered

15:49

her ex-boyfriend Jim Roden. When

15:52

asked why Marjorie did it, Bill

15:55

said that she was upset with Jim for

15:57

not having done enough to investigate a break-in.

16:00

at their home. Throughout the

16:02

hearing, there was no mention of Brian Wells

16:04

and the pizza bomber investigation. Though

16:07

Jim and Brian's murders seemed linked

16:09

by geography, they were being treated

16:11

as separate cases entirely. Bill

16:14

rattled on, insisting that he had nothing

16:16

to do with Jim's murder, while

16:19

Marjorie sat silent as a

16:21

stone. Her true colors

16:23

wouldn't come to light until after the

16:25

hearing, when Marjorie stormed out of

16:27

the courthouse, livid at how

16:30

heartlessly Bill had betrayed her. Immediately,

16:33

she was greeted by a swarm of

16:35

reporters. Suddenly, the

16:37

path to revenge was clear. Marjorie knew

16:39

what she could do to get back

16:41

at Bill. She stepped up to

16:44

the cameras and called Bill a filthy

16:46

liar. He had committed crimes of his

16:48

own. One of them, she

16:50

said, was the death of Brian

16:52

Wells. It was

16:55

the worst possible blow Marjorie could have

16:57

dealt Bill, but he wouldn't

16:59

live to feel the consequences.

17:03

Just a few months later, in the

17:05

spring of 2004, Bill

17:07

was diagnosed with stage four

17:10

non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Bill was

17:12

dying, and quite possibly he had known

17:14

all along that he was sick. If

17:17

this was true, he may have

17:19

incriminated Marjorie as one final act

17:21

of showmanship. Meanwhile, Marjorie's

17:23

legal proceedings continued for the murder

17:26

of Jim Roden. Her

17:28

defense team was well aware of

17:30

her experience with bipolar disorder, and

17:33

they hoped to use it to Marjorie's advantage.

17:37

On March 22, 2004, the

17:39

judge granted a request for

17:42

Marjorie to undergo a six-month

17:44

psychiatric review at Mayview State

17:46

Hospital. This would determine whether

17:48

she was mentally competent to stand trial.

18:00

towards other persons of interest. In

18:03

late July, Clark received a call from

18:05

District Attorney Brad Folk informing him that

18:07

Bill was in the hospital. Clark

18:10

moved to question him immediately. With

18:12

Floyd Stockton in prison on rape

18:15

charges and unavailable for questioning, Clark

18:17

knew Bill was his last opportunity

18:19

to connect the cases. But

18:22

Bill's mind was foggy from the drugs

18:24

he was given to treat his lymphoma.

18:27

His answers were vague and non-committal

18:29

and ultimately he maintained

18:32

that he hadn't been involved in the

18:34

Wells case. Clark left

18:36

the interview empty-handed. It

18:39

was the last time he would speak with Bill. Three

18:42

days later, on July

18:44

30th, 2004, Bill

18:46

Rothstein died, taking everything he

18:48

knew about Brian Wells with

18:50

him. With Bill gone,

18:52

Clark could only rely on Marjorie

18:54

for more pieces to the pizza bomber

18:56

puzzle. Luckily, she was about

18:59

to do some of the heavy lifting for

19:01

him. After six

19:03

months at Mayview Hospital, the judge

19:05

and the examining psychiatrist found Marjorie

19:08

competent to stand trial. On January

19:11

7th, 2005, Marjorie Deal Armstrong

19:14

pleaded guilty but mentally ill

19:16

to two counts in the

19:18

Jim Roden case, third-degree

19:20

murder and abuse of a corpse. The

19:23

presiding judge acknowledged both Marjorie's

19:26

intelligence and history of psychological

19:28

disorders and sentenced her

19:30

to seven to twenty years in

19:32

state prison. However, Marjorie's

19:35

plea afforded her the right to continued

19:37

treatment at Mayview. She was to start

19:39

serving her sentence at the state hospital

19:41

where she would continue to be off-limits

19:44

to investigators for a few more months.

19:48

Finally, on April 27th, Agent

19:50

Clark got another chance to

19:52

speak with Marjorie. He

19:55

entered the state correctional institution

19:57

at Muncie, Pennsylvania, feeling slightly

19:59

slightly nervous. Clark

20:02

had conducted thousands of interviews over the course of

20:04

his career, but for some

20:06

reason Marjorie frightened him. He

20:09

had seen her erratic, menacing behavior

20:11

firsthand in front of reporters. Now

20:14

he braced himself for the worst. He

20:17

began his interview by complimenting

20:20

Marjorie's teeth, hoping to

20:22

appeal to her ego, but

20:24

Marjorie's guard was up. She stood behind

20:27

her statements in court and insisted she

20:29

had nothing to do with the Welles

20:31

case. Instead, she

20:34

insisted that the plot belonged to Bill.

20:37

Marjorie said that Bill had needed the money

20:39

to make payments on his mother's house, which

20:41

his sister had wanted to sell. This

20:44

much was true. Bill had been interested

20:46

in the robbery because he needed the money for

20:48

the house. She also claimed

20:50

he'd been at Barnes and Noble on the day

20:52

of Brian Welles' death. Another

20:54

truth, but this was as much

20:56

as Marjorie was willing to say. Fortunately,

20:59

whatever restraint Marjorie possessed in

21:01

her interviews with Clark, she

21:04

lacked entirely in prison. Marjorie

21:07

developed a special kinship with a

21:10

fellow inmate named Kelly McAlla. Kelly

21:13

told Marjorie she'd once aspired to be

21:15

a police officer, and Marjorie

21:17

hoped she could use this understanding of

21:19

police procedure to her benefit. Marjorie

21:23

flooded her with information while

21:25

Kelly took notes on the

21:27

sly. On June 8th,

21:29

2005, she brought what she'd learned

21:31

to Jerry Clark. Marjorie

21:34

had admitted to her that Jim Roden's

21:36

murder was indeed tied to the Brian

21:38

Welles case. Jim had backed

21:40

out of the plot and Marjorie had

21:42

murdered him to ensure his silence. At

21:45

last, Clark was vindicated. His

21:48

suspicions had been correct all along.

21:52

Marjorie had also told Kelly that Bill

21:54

Rosteen built the collar bomb using scraps

21:56

of metal. She said Brian

21:58

was supposed to rob the bank and

22:01

give the money to Floyd Stockton.

22:04

Marjorie had even admitted to

22:06

poisoning Brian's coworker Robert Panetti.

22:09

If this wasn't enough, Kelly's notes

22:11

alone were horribly incriminating for Marjorie.

22:14

One said point blank, Marj

22:16

told me that Bill, James,

22:18

Floyd and the other pizza

22:20

guy and Wells planned the

22:22

robbery. Clark couldn't believe what

22:25

he was reading, but he knew an inmate

22:28

to inmate confession wasn't enough. He

22:31

still needed more evidence to tie

22:33

Marjorie to the pizza bombing. And

22:36

so he had to pursue the only other

22:38

living people mentioned in the notes, Floyd

22:41

Stockton and Ken

22:43

Barnes. In

22:53

the summer of 2005, Floyd Stockton

22:56

was still locked away at

22:58

a correctional facility in Spokane,

23:00

Washington, serving out a two-year

23:02

rape sentence. Twice a

23:04

day, he placed a call to his

23:06

girlfriend back home in Erie, Pennsylvania. Unbeknownst

23:09

to Floyd, Clark began meeting

23:12

with his girlfriend in an attempt

23:14

to pickle the wire. This

23:16

is a technique where an investigator plants

23:18

an idea in the mind of someone

23:20

related to their target. If

23:23

all goes well, this person

23:25

will turn around and mention the

23:27

topic directly to the target. Clark's

23:29

maneuvering paid off. Before long

23:32

on whatever calls to Floyd,

23:34

the girlfriend said, they think

23:36

the two things are related. She

23:38

didn't have to explain what the two

23:41

things were and Floyd didn't have to

23:43

ask. When Clark listened to

23:45

the tapes of their conversations, he

23:47

was convinced that Floyd knew more about the

23:49

Brian Wells case than he'd let on. On

23:53

July 19, 2005,

23:55

Jerry Clark set across from Floyd in a

23:58

prison meeting room for someone previously

24:00

fooled a lie detector test. It didn't

24:02

take much to get Floyd talking this

24:04

time around. When Clark asked

24:06

why Jim Roden had been killed,

24:09

Floyd replied that it was because

24:11

of the color bomb conspiracy. He

24:14

said that Marjorie and Bill had concocted the plot

24:16

because they needed money. After

24:18

that, he refused to say more, but

24:21

it was already plenty. In

24:24

an effort to foster a relationship with

24:26

Floyd, Clark hugged him and told him

24:28

he'd done the right thing. He knew

24:30

he needed to earn Floyd's trust if

24:32

he wanted his help in bringing Marjorie

24:34

to justice. By

24:37

the fall of 2005, the district attorney

24:40

had given Jerry Clark all of the

24:42

evidence from the Jim Roden murder trial.

24:45

Among the items was a letter

24:47

Marjorie had written to the Department

24:49

of Revenue in 2000. In

24:51

it, she complained about how

24:54

the PNC bank in Erie had

24:56

handled her deceased mother's safe deposit

24:58

box. It was the

25:00

same bank Brian Wells had robbed, glaring

25:03

proof of Marjorie's grievances and

25:06

possible motivations. In

25:09

late 2005, Agent Clark turned

25:11

his attention to another individual

25:13

who was mentioned in Kelly

25:16

McElhain's notes, 51-year-old Ken Barnes.

25:19

Clark was hopeful with his new lead,

25:21

but he had to proceed carefully to

25:23

gain Ken's trust. Ken,

25:25

meanwhile, had had plenty of time in

25:27

the two years since Brian Wells' killing

25:29

to think of an alibi. When

25:32

Clark asked Ken if he knew Brian,

25:34

Ken said that he didn't, but that

25:36

he'd heard of his death through a

25:38

mutual acquaintance, a sex

25:40

worker named Jessica Hoopsick. Ken

25:43

said that Brian was one of Jessica's clients.

25:46

Clark immediately remembered Jessica's

25:48

name. It was in a

25:50

contact book that had been found at Brian's home.

25:53

At once, the pieces fell

25:55

in place. Jessica

25:57

was the link from the

25:59

Brian to Ken to Marjorie

26:01

and Bill. In

26:04

another interview, Ken admitted to Clark

26:06

that Marjorie had approached him about

26:08

killing her father prior to the

26:10

Brian Wells robbery. He said

26:12

she'd complained that her father was spending

26:15

her late mother's money, which she believed

26:17

was rightfully hers. He

26:19

said Marjorie had also asked if he knew how

26:21

to build a bomb with a timer and

26:23

if he would drive a getaway car. Ken

26:26

denied any actual participation, but

26:29

the information he had given

26:31

so far was extremely helpful

26:33

in showing up Clark's suspicions.

26:36

On December 9, 2005,

26:39

Ken met with the Assistant U.S. Attorney, Marshall

26:41

Piccinini, to prepare for a grand

26:44

jury hearing. He'd be testifying

26:46

against Marjorie in the Brian Wells case.

26:49

Clark was there to watch the interview. At

26:52

one point, Piccinini mentioned what Marjorie had said

26:54

about going to Barnes and Noble on the

26:56

day of Brian's death. He

26:58

asked Ken if he'd been with Marjorie at

27:00

the store, and Ken said yes. Suddenly

27:04

a realization hit Clark. This

27:07

was the first time Ken had linked

27:09

himself to Marjorie on the day of

27:11

the robbery, indicating that

27:13

he had been involved in the case

27:15

one way or another. The investigators

27:17

scrambled to bring Ken back to the

27:20

office for further questioning. Slowly

27:22

knowing he'd been cornered, Ken returned

27:25

to the office and gave a

27:27

detailed and factual account of what

27:29

happened before, during, and after the

27:31

bombing. He told him

27:33

about Brian's debts to Jessica Hoopcik's

27:35

drug dealers, which may have motivated

27:38

Brian to participate in the robbery. He

27:40

even told them how Bill had built the

27:42

collar bomb. Ken

27:46

had elevated himself from a witness

27:48

to a person of interest, and

27:50

the FBI's access to him became

27:53

much easier in March of 2006

27:55

when he was arrested on an

27:57

unrelated drug charge. Ken

28:01

could simply look him up at the Erie County

28:03

Prison. And this

28:05

wasn't the only advantage to Ken's arrest. After

28:08

he was taken into custody, his

28:10

estranged half-brother, Ricky Barnes, stopped

28:12

by the FBI office in Erie

28:14

to sign for his brother's wallet.

28:18

Ricky disliked Ken. He felt he'd mistreated

28:20

their family, and he had no problem

28:22

with Ken's being in prison. Brooks

28:25

saw an opportunity to capitalize off

28:27

this, roping in Ricky as an

28:30

informant. Ricky visited

28:32

Ken in prison, eventually tricking

28:34

his half-brother into admitting more

28:37

critical details about the Brian

28:39

Wells case. Ken

28:41

told Ricky that Brian had

28:44

indeed been forced to wear the

28:46

bomb, and all the materials

28:48

used to make the explosive had been dumped

28:50

at a landfill. All

28:53

these facts were filtered back to Agent

28:55

Clark and his team, who were getting

28:57

closer and closer to an indictment. They

29:00

decided to try their hand with Marjorie again.

29:03

On May 10th, Marjorie led investigators

29:05

on a guided tour of her

29:07

movements on August 28th, She

29:11

pointed out the exact spot where she had

29:13

parked that day. It was

29:16

the same place that Ken had said

29:18

they sat watching the robbery through binoculars. But

29:21

then, Marjorie clammed up.

29:24

She refused to say anything more

29:26

without immunity. This

29:28

was a major consideration throughout the

29:31

investigation. Who should be

29:33

given immunity and why? With

29:35

three key players, Marjorie, Floyd, and

29:37

Ken, still alive, the FBI would

29:39

have to decide which two fish

29:42

to fry and which one to

29:44

cut loose. It

29:46

all came down to evidence. By

29:49

mid-2007, Clark felt a

29:51

grand jury already had more than enough

29:53

to indict Marjorie and Ken. Both

29:56

had unwittingly talked themselves into

29:58

incrimination. through

30:00

Kelly's notes and Ken through his

30:02

own testimony. But while

30:05

Clark felt there was plenty of evidence

30:07

against them, the U.S. Attorney's Office was

30:09

more cautious. They wanted

30:12

another witness. And

30:15

so Assistant U.S. Attorney Marshall

30:17

Piccinini turned his attention to

30:19

Floyd Stockton, who had been

30:21

released from prison in 2005.

30:24

Piccinini felt that the evidence against

30:26

Floyd wasn't strong enough to indict

30:28

him. And even if they could,

30:30

Floyd's involvement in the case seemed

30:32

less extensive than Marjorie and Ken's.

30:35

Piccinini decided Floyd was the

30:37

perfect candidate for immunity. Floyd

30:40

had already provided details about

30:42

the events of August 28,

30:45

2003, but he seemed to be withholding

30:47

information for fear of being indicted. So

30:50

in mid-2007, Piccinini

30:53

decided to offer Floyd

30:55

a clean-for-a-day proffer. This

30:58

meant that Floyd would be given one day

31:00

to talk with at least partial immunity.

31:03

His confessions, however, could still

31:06

be used to collect further

31:08

evidence against him. On March

31:10

27, 2007, Marshall Piccinini and Agent Clark arrived

31:16

at the Grand Hyatt Hotel in

31:18

Seattle, where they met with

31:20

Floyd and his lawyer. Over

31:22

the next 13 hours, Floyd

31:25

gave them a full account of

31:27

the events surrounding the bombing. He

31:29

admitted to giving Bill the idea for a

31:32

bomb heist. He told them

31:34

that he himself had suggested the use

31:36

of a pizza delivery man. Floyd

31:38

even shared that he had helped Bill

31:40

cut two pieces of metal to fashion

31:43

into a collar. In

31:45

admitting his part in making the

31:47

collar bomb, Floyd had

31:49

arguably become an accessory to

31:51

murder, and by the time

31:53

they left, Clark wanted to indict him. After

31:56

all, they hadn't promised full immunity.

32:00

But they still needed Floyd as

32:02

a witness against Marjorie. If

32:04

they refused to protect him, they risked

32:06

Floyd recanting his statements. And

32:09

without his testimony, the case against

32:11

Marjorie and Ken would be severely

32:13

weakened. The investigators

32:15

considered their options and

32:19

ultimately decided that Marjorie and

32:21

Ken were more important suspects

32:23

than Floyd. So on

32:25

June 26, 2007, Floyd

32:28

Stockton testified before the grand

32:30

jury with full

32:32

immunity. Two weeks

32:34

later, the grand jury finally

32:36

secured indictments against Marjorie and

32:39

Ken. They were

32:41

charged with the same three felonies,

32:43

conspiracy to commit armed robbery, aiding

32:46

and abetting an armed bank robbery involving

32:48

a death, and aiding and

32:50

abetting the use of a destructive device

32:52

in a crime of violence. Ken

32:55

Barnes pleaded guilty to two of

32:57

the three charges. In

32:59

return, the third charge was dropped. And

33:02

on December 3, 2008, a

33:05

judge sentenced him to 45 years in prison. The

33:09

sentence was reduced to 22 and a half years in 2011, but

33:14

for Ken, it amounted to the rest of his

33:16

life. He died in prison in 2019. Marjorie

33:20

DeAlarmstrong's trial wouldn't come to a

33:22

close for almost two more years.

33:25

But on November 1, 2010, the

33:29

jury announced their verdict, guilty

33:31

on all three charges. Marjorie

33:34

was sentenced to life in

33:36

prison. She passionately maintained her

33:38

innocence until her death in 2017.

33:43

Over seven years had passed since

33:45

Brian Wells' death, and

33:47

Agent Jerry Clark had finally come to

33:50

a conclusion. It would

33:52

later state that the crime couldn't

33:54

be explained by any rationale because

33:57

the two main conspirators, Marjorie and

33:59

Bill... were devoid of it.

34:02

According to Clark, Marjorie was

34:04

blinded to the pitfalls of the plan,

34:06

and Bill didn't even

34:08

care if they succeeded or failed.

34:11

To him, it was all a game,

34:14

and he was willing to

34:17

sacrifice anything, even innocent lives,

34:20

for the sake of winning. Thanks

34:27

for listening to Serial Killers, a Spotify

34:30

podcast. We'll be back next week with

34:32

a new episode, and be sure to

34:34

check us out on Instagram, at Serial

34:36

Killers Podcast. For more

34:38

information on Marjorie Diehl Armstrong, amongst

34:40

the many sources we used, we

34:43

found Mania and Marjorie Diehl Armstrong

34:45

by Jerry Clark and Ed Palatilla

34:47

extremely helpful to our research. Until

34:50

next time, remember, the truth

34:52

isn't always the best story, and

34:55

the official story is always

34:57

the truth. Stay safe

34:59

out there. Conspiracy

35:03

theories and serial killers are

35:05

Spotify podcasts. This episode was

35:07

written by Natalie McCerran, edited

35:10

by Kate Gallagher and Chelsea

35:12

Wood, researched by Adriana Gomez,

35:14

fact-checked by Kara McEarlene, and

35:16

sound-designed by Sam Baer. Our

35:19

head of programming is Julian Barro, our

35:21

head of production is Nick Johnson, and

35:24

Spencer Howard is our post-production supervisor.

35:26

Conspiracy theories is hosted by Carter

35:29

Roy, and Serial Killers is hosted

35:31

by me, Vanessa Richardson.