0:01

Around the world, more than eighty women

0:03

have accused Peter NYGÅRD of crimes

0:05

ranging from rape to sex trafficking.

0:08

He far exceeds Jeffrey Epstein. He far

0:10

exceeds Bill Cosby. He exceeds anything

0:12

that I think our world has seen

0:14

so far. A pattern of

0:17

predatory behavior spanning

0:19

half a century. NYGÅRD

0:21

denies it all. but now he

0:23

faces criminal charges.

0:24

I just wear a poor man.

0:26

He wouldn't have been in jail decades ago.

0:29

He has hid in plain sight.

0:30

Evil by design, available

0:33

now on CBC Listen, or wherever you get

0:35

your podcasts.

0:38

This is a CBC Podcast.

0:40

There are few

0:42

remaining frontiers on our planet perhaps

0:45

the wildest and least understood are

0:47

the world's oceans, too big to

0:50

police, and under no clear international

0:52

authority These immense regions of treacherous

0:55

water play host to rampant criminality

0:57

and exploitation created and

0:59

produced by the outlaw ocean project. from

1:02

CBC Podcasts and the LA

1:04

Times Podcasts. The outlaw

1:06

Ocean is a seven part series

1:08

that explores a gritty and lawless

1:10

realm rarely seen, relying

1:13

on more than eight years of reporting at sea

1:15

on all seven oceans and more than

1:17

three dozen countries. The podcast

1:19

brings all of it together into an immersive

1:22

audio documentary series. This

1:24

episode called From The Sea Freedom.

1:26

visits the high seas near Mexico

1:29

to meet the founder of women on waves,

1:31

a group that provides abortion access for

1:33

women who live in countries where it's

1:35

restricted. Secretly carrying

1:38

several Mexican women beyond national

1:40

waters, the group uses a loophole and

1:42

maritime law to legally administer

1:44

pills that will end their pregnancies. Now,

1:48

here's the episode from the sea freedom

1:50

from the outlaw ocean.

2:01

Seven miles out from the English

2:04

coast in the North Sea stands a man

2:06

made island that declared the sovereign state of

2:08

sealand by Roybeg proclaimed

2:10

prince. Zealand was a

2:12

wartime gun fortress. Ben

2:14

Bates and his family acquired it by the

2:16

simple expedient of stepping aboard and

2:18

staying on

2:26

Christmas Eve nineteen sixty six,

2:29

boybates got into a speedboat, and

2:32

he took the boat seven miles offshore

2:34

and climbed aboard a World War

2:36

two Gunnery platform called

2:38

Ruffs. The name of the fort

2:41

was Ruffs' town. One of the seven affords

2:43

built to defend the Tim's history during

2:45

the last war.

2:47

Two were demolished after the war,

2:49

four remained derelict, and

2:51

rough start or sea land

2:53

is alone inhabited.

2:58

Roy

2:58

Bates throws a grapple hook

3:00

up to the platform, hoists his

3:02

way up there and and declares it his

3:04

own. The British government were not so

3:06

happy with this and told him to

3:08

vacate the premises, and he essentially

3:11

replied bugger off. And

3:14

thus begins the story

3:16

of the world's smallest independent

3:18

nation.

3:26

Episode

3:26

four from

3:29

the sea freedom.

3:37

It's an odd quirk of

3:39

maritime wall that once

3:41

you pass this invisible line

3:43

and you enter international waters,

3:46

the local governments, the near shore

3:49

governments, have no jurisdiction. And

3:52

much of my reporting have been focused on those

3:54

folks who take advantage of this to

3:57

go out there and do nefarious things,

3:59

murder and dump

3:59

and enslave and steal.

4:03

But there's this other subgroup of

4:05

characters that are using

4:07

the loopholes in maritime law

4:09

to do other things, to pursue their

4:11

own political agendas, to

4:13

address problems that they see

4:16

or opportunities that they want

4:18

that aren't necessarily bad, but

4:20

they are outside the reach of the

4:22

law.

4:24

when Roy Bates foisted his

4:26

cell phone to Rolfsen named at

4:28

sealand, this platform

4:31

was outside of UK

4:33

national waters. It was on the high seas.

4:35

And so that really limited how

4:37

much the British government could

4:40

impose their will on him.

4:42

Or

4:44

I had the initial plan to

4:47

operate a pirate radio station

4:50

Now that you're listening to radio s, now

4:52

the time is twenty minutes before the hour. Please

4:54

reply later from radio Caroline 199

4:57

on your phone. This is radio Caroline on 199

4:59

England's Best Commercial Radio Station. My

5:01

name is Simon Deet with you for the next two hours.

5:08

hired radio in these years essentially

5:10

was born of this problem whereby

5:12

BBC

5:12

and the other official radio

5:15

were

5:15

only playing the stuff that young

5:17

folk really wanted to hear at late at night.

5:19

By nineteen sixty six, the pilots were

5:21

operating eleven stations around even

5:23

camp. four of them come forth in the tenth

5:26

century. Bates claims your station is now

5:28

running thirty nesix to London and 390

5:30

and is optimistic about prospects. We're

5:32

doing a job that's needed. The public want us

5:34

to do the job. And I think while this

5:36

demand is here, we have remained it.

5:42

Bates wasn't joking around. You know, this

5:44

wasn't a weekend gimmick.

5:46

He had fought in the

5:49

Spanish civil war having joined when he

5:51

was just teenager. He

5:53

fought in World War two.

5:55

He had been kidnapped and was a war

5:57

prisoner for a while. He was

5:59

among the youngest

5:59

captains ever in the British

6:02

military. So he was

6:04

not someone who was timid

6:06

about his ambitions he

6:08

intended to actually set this place

6:10

up and stay there and he did just

6:12

that. He, you know, stocked it with

6:14

whiskey and cans of tuna and

6:16

tea and everything he needed and

6:18

set up a system where supplies and

6:20

food would be delivered once a week, and

6:22

he began living out there. and broadcasting is

6:24

radio station from the platform.

6:27

Zealand doesn't really have any land

6:29

at such. It's a steel platform

6:31

standing sixty foot about the water

6:33

on two hollow

6:34

concrete legs. Today, it's

6:36

far from the rusting halt the navy

6:38

abandoned

6:38

in nineteen forty six.

6:40

original generators have been rebuilt,

6:42

corridors painted, sleeping

6:44

accommodations being installed.

6:49

one

6:49

night he and some mates were

6:52

sitting around and drinking and

6:54

joking and one of them observes

6:56

that Now, Roy's

6:59

wife, Joan, has her own island, and

7:01

how wonderful that is. And she responds,

7:03

it'd be so much better if it had some

7:05

palm trees and its own flag.

7:07

And everyone laughs and continues with the

7:09

evening and and Bates decides

7:12

he's gonna make real on that and

7:14

only weeks later declares Roth's

7:17

its own independent principality,

7:20

declare the one hundred and twenty foot

7:22

long steel platform, the nation who's

7:24

Zealand, when the British Navy set a boat

7:26

close by Roy Batesson Michael

7:28

fired warning shots. Father

7:30

and son were brought to court but a

7:32

judge who referred to this swashbuckling

7:34

incident ruled that since sealand

7:37

lays seven nautical miles outside British

7:39

waters, British courts had no

7:41

jurisdiction. Bates

7:42

took that as recognition they called

7:44

sealant of principality, which been

7:46

hailed less paper work in a kingdom, created

7:49

a flag, stamps, passports, and

7:51

currency with Jones arresting profile

7:53

and a motto, e Mary Libertas.

7:56

from the sea, freedom.

8:02

Why did you do? Well,

8:06

I'm not really introspective really, you know.

8:08

And I I never really look for the reasons why

8:10

I do a lot of that. I'm not I feel about introspective.

8:12

I wouldn't do anything because that's some of the wild

8:14

ideas getting the things I do a little bit.

8:16

I'm a I'm a spurt on my memory. I

8:19

do the unusual and I enjoy doing

8:21

the unusual. And

8:23

these sort of things don't just tempt

8:25

me. They attract me like a magnet, and

8:27

I guess I have to do them at all.

8:31

Roy in personality is a

8:34

polished and articulate rascal. You

8:36

know, he's got this playful, glint

8:38

in his eye, and all times and

8:40

you sense a tongue and cheek

8:42

element to everything he does.

8:44

And while he takes this

8:46

project of his very seriously,

8:48

he he asked so is having a good time

8:50

thumbing his nose at British

8:52

sovereignty

8:52

and and government reach.

8:57

the

8:57

British government took it a little bit

8:59

less in jest. And we know

9:01

this now from recently to classified

9:03

documents where you've got military officials

9:06

worrying that in sealant, you have the

9:08

potential for our sort of next Cuba, you know,

9:10

this

9:10

off coast out of range near

9:12

shore or to the UK that could be a

9:14

launching point for attacks and all

9:16

sorts of criminal or geopolitical

9:18

worries and behavior.

9:21

Governments really like being in control

9:24

and they don't like the

9:26

loss of that control on the

9:28

high seas.

9:29

You know,

9:33

the intellectual history of this idea

9:35

has deep roots. You know, it

9:37

goes back at least since eighteen seventy when

9:39

Jules Verne wrote twenty thousand leagues

9:41

on the sea, people have dreamed

9:43

of going to this offshore realm and

9:45

colonizing it and making a new world. We

9:48

have long sailed its surface

9:50

and fished its depths, but

9:52

at the very bottom is a

9:54

land of undreamed abundant. a

9:58

whole new dimension of life for people

10:00

of

10:00

the future.

10:04

you've seen in the last fifty

10:06

years alone a lot of these

10:08

types of characters. They're almost

10:10

always steeped in Anne Rand

10:12

and Thomas Hobbes, and very frequently,

10:14

or millionaires, or billionaires,

10:16

and their goal in some form or another

10:18

is to create a new society

10:20

on the high seas. In

10:22

the nineteen seventies, you had this real

10:24

estate Baron Michael Oliver, a

10:26

millionaire who loaded some

10:28

barges full of you know,

10:30

made tons of sand and transported

10:32

it from the coast of Australia

10:34

to Tonga and began

10:36

building an island that he

10:38

called the nation of Minera And

10:41

within months, Tonga sent

10:43

troops to expel the occupants and

10:45

remove his flag. Then in

10:47

nineteen sixty eight, you had a guy named

10:49

Warner Stifel, a wealthy libertarian.

10:51

His vision involved a

10:54

boat off the coast of Bahamas, just

10:56

across the line in international waters,

10:59

but the vision didn't last very long. The

11:01

boat was sunk by a hurricane.

11:03

More recently, a lot of these

11:05

millionaires and billionaires have been

11:07

dot com types from

11:09

Silicon Valley, and a lot of these

11:11

types of idea logs,

11:13

cole last into this

11:15

organization called the Sea Setting Institute, which

11:17

is based in San Francisco, founded

11:20

by Patrice Friedman who

11:22

was a software engineer for Google, but also

11:24

the grandson of Milton

11:26

Friedman in the famous economist. It

11:28

would reopen the frontier so

11:30

that pioneers with new notions

11:32

for new nations could

11:35

peacefully put them into practice. We

11:37

could have evolution without

11:39

revolution, and I invite you to

11:41

join us

11:45

This institute became a think

11:47

tank if you will for this

11:49

kind of vision it got a huge

11:52

infusion of money over a million

11:54

dollars from Peter Teal, the

11:56

billionaire venture capitalists and

11:58

cofounder of PayPal -- Yeah. -- specific

11:59

thing that I I would hope would come out of

12:02

it would be more scientific and

12:04

technological progress that's too heavily

12:06

regulated -- Mhmm. -- by the

12:08

heavy hand of our existing state. The

12:10

Sea

12:10

Setting Institute would host

12:13

annual conferences where they'd bring a lot of these folks

12:15

together and trade ideas and

12:17

fundraise and sort of scheme

12:19

some new notion of how they

12:21

might create this new society. So

12:24

for a long time, the ocean has

12:26

been solving a lot of our problems.

12:28

It's been feeding civilizations. It's

12:31

been connecting us one to another across

12:33

the world. And now today, we

12:35

ask that it's all one more

12:37

pressing problem. One

12:39

of the brainchilds of the c setting institute

12:42

was a start out called blue

12:44

seed and the idea of blue suit

12:46

was to house immigrants

12:48

who might otherwise not be able to get visas

12:50

to work in the US. Blue suit is

12:52

creating a visa free

12:54

technology incubator for startups. Twelve

12:56

miles outside the coast of Silicon

12:59

Valley on a ship. It is a place where

13:01

entrepreneurs will be able to come from any

13:03

part of the world connects into

13:05

Silicon Valley's ecosystem and

13:07

create the companies and create the technologies

13:09

of tomorrow.

13:13

Blue Seed didn't ultimately get off the ground.

13:15

It never raised the capital and needed to

13:18

succeed. And that's not actually an

13:20

uncommon outcome to a lot of

13:22

these schemes.

13:26

On the one hand, the conditions

13:28

that see are brutal.

13:30

and the salt water and the waves

13:32

and the wind and the challenges faced

13:35

just by the nature out

13:37

there often spell

13:39

doom for these plans. But

13:41

then the other huge problem

13:43

is a sort of modern

13:45

sociological one, which is the very

13:47

things that these folks tend to want

13:49

to escape taxes and governments

13:51

and rules are

13:53

often very costly to recreate

13:55

if you don't have a tax base. Right? So who's

13:57

gonna pave the streets or

13:59

or police

13:59

crimes or put out

14:02

fires, bring in internet and phone

14:04

and protection and

14:06

food and clean water, and all these

14:08

things are difficult to manage

14:10

logistically. You know, the taxes

14:12

serve a purpose and society has

14:14

built up around governments for

14:16

a reason and that often becomes

14:18

the fatal flaw in the plans.

14:32

you

14:37

know, sealant, this platform

14:40

that became the world smallest

14:42

micronation in nineteen sixty

14:44

eight. Still exists today

14:46

and is a marvel partially because

14:48

virtually every other experiment of this

14:50

sort through history has failed within

14:52

a matter of years and nonetheless

14:55

sealand is still going

14:57

strong and still run by the same family.

14:59

When

15:01

I read about Zealand, I

15:04

immediately wanted to go there who

15:06

would I mean, it was a chance to go through the

15:08

looking glass and visit a place

15:10

that had done what no other seesetter

15:12

had and so I began

15:14

chasing the Bates family and begging

15:16

them to let me visit. And

15:18

eventually, they gave me permission and promised to

15:20

take me out there, so I flew to England

15:22

to meet them in this tiny port town.

15:24

It's got it's got

15:25

smaller fuel head coke budget. Morning.

15:28

But if you just come up the front

15:30

again.

15:31

Michael

15:33

and James Fates picked

15:35

me up in this, you know, dual

15:37

outboard motor, speedboat, one

15:39

cold morning, and we

15:42

rode out for a couple hours in

15:44

this insanely rough

15:46

water to sealant.

15:49

we approached this

15:51

strange mechanical dinosaur

15:54

looming on the horizon. As

15:57

I neared it, I was shocked that

15:59

how rusty everything looked and

16:01

chipped the concrete pillars

16:03

were and you could hear it

16:05

kind of the whole structure groaning

16:07

like suspension bridge. If you

16:09

leave the bag in the boat, I'll come up with it. It's

16:11

okay. Alright. Look at what it's about. How

16:13

you entered the land of sealant, which

16:15

you hundred feet up in the sky

16:18

was this weird

16:20

long neck crane that

16:22

was swung out over the edge

16:24

and lowered literally a

16:26

wooden swing. And you

16:28

you you climb on board, you're sit

16:30

there and then the crane hoist

16:33

you up. Three stories.

16:36

Stop. Yep.

16:39

Alright. Please get your

16:40

mind. Yep. Alright. you

16:45

know, there's no seat belt. There's no I mean, this

16:47

is the most unsafe and ridiculous

16:50

way to enter this country

16:52

imaginable, but it was so

16:54

apropos to the rest of the experience.

16:59

Today, the citizenry of Zealand has

17:01

dwindled to one. It's This guy named

17:03

Michael Barrington who sits out there twenty

17:05

four seven by himself and

17:07

keeps watch. And who

17:09

who passes out mostly fishing boats

17:11

or good pilot boats

17:14

that we don't. Okay. You

17:16

got fishing boats as well. Yeah.

17:18

auctioning at no loss.

17:21

Yeah. Barrington is this sort of

17:23

jolly older guy who seemed

17:25

happy to have a visitor. And the next

17:27

thing he did is said let's get you through

17:29

customs. And I remember staring at

17:31

his face, waiting for him to

17:33

crack a smile, or give me any

17:35

cue that it was safe for me

17:37

to laugh. And I got none of you. Where would you

17:39

like your stand? Anywhere? Anywhere.

17:41

Yeah. Somewhere in one

17:43

moment. Yeah. Yeah. here

17:45

you go. Thank you. That's good

17:47

to be sure. When you wanna go first, you wanna have a

17:49

nice look at it. You guys decide.

17:52

The first thing that happened was I was taken

17:54

on a tour by Barrington around the facility.

17:56

And, you know, it's important to think about

17:58

what this place looks like. It's a platform

18:01

So think of maybe a helicopter pad, that's

18:03

the size of two tennis courts.

18:05

And that sits atop two

18:08

cement cylinders that

18:10

are about twenty feet

18:12

in diameter. And most of

18:14

the rooms at sealant are

18:16

in those cylindrical legs. and

18:18

most of those rooms are below the waterline. So on

18:21

the lowest of low water, this is under I

18:23

mean, we're under walking in a lot. Oh, is that right?

18:25

Just flip the switch on that.

18:27

Exactly. We're headed down. You it.

18:30

I found it. I'm going that way. Yep.

18:32

That should be as well. Among

18:36

the rooms are a chapel which

18:38

had a Quran and a bible and

18:41

two bedrooms, a brick where people

18:43

be rested with literally jail bars. Did

18:46

you have these fit on?

18:48

That's

18:48

good. Fully

18:50

kit it out, kitchen, complete

18:52

with appliances from the nineteen

18:55

seventies. And overall, it just was this

18:57

very dank wet

18:59

and creek key

19:00

place. If if if we had a

19:02

case of treason to deal

19:04

with who would use this as a

19:06

courtroom. There's a jail's down there, and then we could

19:08

have Abigurin there or whatever So when

19:10

we execute the files, when we execute

19:12

the files, they're gonna

19:15

get bloody weird or and weird or everything forward. Got

19:17

it. Yeah. Seriously.

19:19

it was sort of a a clubhouse, a

19:22

treehouse, but at sea, it was their

19:24

special spot. Sure. It was

19:26

rustic. You know, it was rugged. It

19:28

was it was a mess, but it was theirs.

19:31

We sat down in the

19:33

kitchen over some coffee and and

19:35

I began listening to the

19:37

lore of the place and

19:39

it just kept getting weirder

19:42

and weirder.

19:45

First up was the story of

19:47

this German diamond dealer, last

19:49

name, Achenbacher, who had a

19:51

grand plan to convert

19:53

Zealand and build an adjacent platform

19:55

and create a sort of offshore

19:58

resort, casino, luxury

20:00

hotel where, you know, they could do

20:02

whatever they wanted and Achenbach was

20:04

very, very eager and serious about his

20:06

plan so much so that when he

20:08

found the Bates family to be

20:10

moving too slowly, orchestrated an

20:13

attempted coup. Aachenbach

20:15

invited Roy Bates

20:17

to Austria for some sit down meetings

20:19

to plan out their building

20:22

ambitions. And while royal was away from

20:24

sealant, Akhenbach sent

20:26

his lawyer by Helly copter,

20:28

two sealant. And these guys came on the

20:30

car and helicopter. I was here on my

20:33

end. They came down the white swag and white

20:35

and white. So Roy

20:42

gets back, realizes that and

20:44

the lawyer have taken over sealant. Roy

20:47

hires his own crew. A

20:49

helicopter pilot flies them

20:51

out. Roy and his crew

20:53

takes Zealand back by force,

20:56

and Roy Bates then takes the lawyer,

20:58

puts him in the rig for two

21:00

begins this diplomatic standoff

21:02

with German government. From

21:04

here, things

21:07

only got weirder. You know, in nineteen ninety

21:09

seven famous designer Versace

21:12

is murdered. The person

21:14

who commits the murder takes

21:16

over boat and kills himself

21:18

on the boat. When the police show up to that

21:20

boat, they find hundreds

21:22

of sealant passports. Later that same

21:25

year, police in Spain

21:28

arrested a club owner, charging him

21:30

with selling diluted gasoline

21:32

and and in investigating him, they

21:34

find that he had declared

21:36

himself the diplomatic consul

21:38

for turned out to be this website

21:41

that had in selling sealant passports.

21:43

You know, it referred to itself as

21:45

the government in exile of

21:48

sealant. and servicing this

21:50

supposed diaspora population

21:52

of Zealand citizens, of which

21:54

there were allegedly a hundred and sixty

21:57

thousand people

22:00

I

22:02

asked the Bates family about the website in this

22:04

whole weird chapter and

22:07

they said they knew nothing about it and they had no

22:09

role and they took the selling of

22:11

passports from Zealand very

22:13

seriously and personally vetted anyone who was

22:15

given citizenship.

22:17

Alright. So where are we now? Were

22:20

these the servers? Yes.

22:23

During the tour, Michael became more

22:25

animated as he talked about the

22:27

more recent scheme of this

22:29

century, which was to create

22:31

this company called Havenko.

22:33

Essentially meant to be this offshore

22:35

server farm, Zealand is embracing

22:37

a radical new lease of life as

22:39

a controversial internet venture. down

22:42

in one of the concrete pillars, hums

22:44

a batch of computer servers. By the whole

22:46

object of the exercises, people

22:48

that want to keep their data secure from hackers

22:51

or commercial intervention or government

22:53

intervention and store data,

22:55

run their business as well.

22:57

we said don't exchange financial

23:00

information without

23:01

being said don't. But I

23:03

mean, we have to please

23:04

You know, Aspates, whether he would take all clients

23:06

and he said, quote, we have our limits. He said

23:09

they they would not take clients who

23:11

were engaged in child porn or

23:13

corporate cyber sabotage or

23:15

calls. And so we can't have refills. We're

23:17

gonna jump on Right. Right.

23:19

Got a terrorism. Right.

23:22

Do you wanna act if you want a big country,

23:24

you get a big one country. You get a

23:26

big one. Right. Right. Yeah. Right.

23:29

And any fugitives or,

23:31

like, snowden types ever tried? Well,

23:33

we had they wanted to get

23:35

snowed now. Oh, yeah. Is there anything this would be a

23:37

perfect place, sure. And the other fellows, you

23:39

know? Assarge. Yeah.

23:41

Julius. Have they have they been in touch they were

23:43

posing the idea of trying to move

23:45

Julian Assange, the the founder

23:47

of WikiLeaks to sealant to sort

23:49

of protect him extra jurisdictions.

23:52

and Bates kindly declined them too, saying

23:54

that, quote, they were releasing more than

23:56

I felt comfortable with.

23:59

reason, I thought it

23:59

but but it's not because he lent too much

24:02

information. Mhmm. You know, about our own military tactics

24:04

and everything else, and everything else,

24:06

and everything like that. Mhmm.

24:08

That's that's that's traitors, you know.

24:10

Mhmm. Mhmm. We've got a duty to

24:12

the intention. We usually have we have a duty

24:14

to make a decision. Mhmm. you

24:18

know,

24:18

those are funny memories of how you

24:20

can go. The Bates family teamed up

24:22

with a bunch of tech types who

24:24

had this elaborate plan protect

24:27

the servers so extremely that

24:29

not only would they have armed guards

24:31

that would prevent, you know, hostile takeovers

24:34

or governments sending troops but they

24:36

would even fill the server room

24:38

with nitrogen so that no

24:40

person who didn't have breathing

24:42

equipment, you know, oxygen tanks could

24:44

even enter those rooms So

24:46

there's this elaborate sort of marketing

24:48

campaign around just how

24:50

secure, safe. And out of reach,

24:52

HavenCo would

24:54

be But again,

24:56

as is the case on so many

24:58

of these sort of sea standing

25:01

stories, the reality running

25:03

something offshore became overwhelming. You know,

25:05

the Internet kept dipping in and out because they

25:07

were so far offshore and they were having to

25:09

use satellite linkups. they

25:11

had power problems and fuel shortages

25:14

because they were relying on generators. Ultimately,

25:16

the whole thing fell

25:19

to pieces. They they they were just one

25:21

of the internet bubble birds and the

25:23

Russian Federation broke down

25:26

and trying to kill

25:28

that. To

25:33

the extent that Zealand is financed

25:35

at all these days, it's from the poultry.

25:37

Some that it earns from online

25:39

sales at its digital

25:41

shopping mall where it sells, you

25:43

know, mugs, Celand Mugs

25:45

for nine pounds and

25:47

titles of nobility for twenty

25:49

nine pounds. Occasionally,

25:51

they also rent out

25:53

the facility for bands that are

25:55

performing music videos or

25:57

the occasional wedding out there.

25:59

But generally speaking, it's

26:01

It's sort of a shadow of

26:03

its former self.

26:11

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26:45

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26:51

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wherever you get your podcasts.

27:06

At this

27:11

point

27:13

in reporting, I had been

27:16

offshore for too many months, you know,

27:18

almost a year traveling the world.

27:20

And I was emotionally

27:22

and otherwise worn out. And I

27:24

I was really hungry for

27:27

a story with a different sort of

27:29

emotional valance, something that was a bit

27:31

more inspiring I was

27:33

fascinated by the way that Zealand's

27:35

story embodied this idea that the

27:37

sea is a metaphor for freedom.

27:40

but I wanted to find someone who was using the

27:42

freedom of the seas to escape

27:45

laws viewed as

27:47

oppressive and tyrannical. Someone

27:50

who was in their own world view

27:52

pursuing good, and I found

27:54

all that in Rebekah Conference. My

27:56

name is

27:56

Rebekah Conference. I'm a

27:59

medical dog and

27:59

I'm the founder of women on

28:02

waves. And women on waves is

28:04

a a Dutch nonprofit organization

28:06

with the goal to make sure that women around

28:08

the world have access to safe and legal abortions.

28:10

Women on waves has for more

28:12

than ten years provided abortions and

28:15

contraception to women who live in

28:17

countries

28:17

where terminating pregnancy

28:19

is illegal or restricted. The

28:21

organization was set up by Dutch

28:23

doctor Rebecca Gompertz,

28:24

who hires a ship registered

28:27

under law and sales into international waters

28:29

to

28:29

provide abortion. How it

28:33

works

28:33

is that women on

28:35

waves will rent a ship

28:37

go to a country where abortion is

28:39

not allowed, where it's illegal. We

28:41

sail into the harbor. There we

28:43

can take women on board where

28:46

sailing to international waters and

28:48

international waters is twelve miles

28:50

outside the coast. And

28:52

in international waters,

28:54

the local laws don't apply anymore,

28:56

and it's only the laws of

28:59

the sea. Once

29:01

they

29:01

cross into international waters, this

29:04

legal switch flips whereby

29:07

the new jurisdiction, the new laws

29:09

that apply on the vessel are the

29:11

laws of the flag flown

29:13

by that vessel. When we

29:15

filled out the first times, we had a

29:17

Dutch ship. So it was the Dutch laws

29:19

that applied onboard the Dutch ship and that men

29:21

that women who came with us to international

29:24

waters, we could safely give them the

29:26

abortion pills, where they swallowed

29:28

it in the international waters. And

29:30

then a few hours later, we sailed

29:32

back. So we were never out more

29:34

than a few hours and that was how

29:36

it worked legally.

29:41

Women

29:43

on waves

29:47

had been doing this

29:49

kind of worked for nearly a decade that

29:51

had gone to Guatemala,

29:53

Ireland, Poland, Morocco, and half dozen

29:55

other countries where abortions are illegal

29:58

and dangerous. they're seeking to

30:00

use a loophole maritime

30:02

law to remove the state

30:04

from being an intermediary that

30:06

makes a decision over the woman's body.

30:09

because they view this decision as

30:11

a health decision, not a moral

30:13

or religious decision. The

30:15

basic philosophy is harm

30:18

reduction. When a

30:18

country makes abortion illegal, it

30:21

doesn't stop any women from

30:23

seeking an abortion. Women that

30:25

have the money they can always travel

30:27

to another country where abortion is

30:29

legal to get a legal safe

30:31

abortion. The poor

30:32

women that don't have

30:34

these resources cannot.

30:36

What it does, it's making her

30:39

take risk, health risk, and her life

30:41

risk in order to get it. When

30:43

I started women waves, at

30:45

that time, was about one hundred and twenty thousand

30:47

women per year. We're dying as

30:49

a result of unsafe abortion.

30:51

Efforts, to legalize

30:53

abortion here in Northern Ireland, it's

30:55

a woman's right to protect her health

30:57

and to choose

30:59

her life. She is the one be putting her life

31:01

at risk. The

31:09

women

31:10

on waves campaign to Poland,

31:12

which was in two thousand and three, was actually

31:14

the first time that we were able to

31:16

help women on worship. And it

31:18

was also the first time that we really

31:20

encountered fears of position.

31:24

Watch out

31:26

there again. They can't go on

31:28

the back. Let's go back and we don't want

31:30

them to jump on. We don't want them to predict on

31:32

the

31:32

ship for When

31:35

the abortion vote, as it's called here,

31:37

first, pulled into a Polish court last

31:40

week protesters through paintballs and

31:42

tomatoes, as it motored into Juarez Fajavo,

31:44

Saturday, from its second run out to

31:46

international waters pro

31:48

life activists yelled murderers

31:50

and feminism equals communism

31:52

from a jetty across the water.

31:56

In

31:59

Ireland, the ship

32:02

faced a bomb threat and

32:04

in Morocco and angry mob, a

32:06

costed bumpert's crew in

32:09

Spain, some advocates, some anti

32:11

abortion advocates. attempted to actually tow the boat out of

32:13

port fortunately until Gomfords

32:15

cut their rope. So the reaction

32:17

is quite fierce. The

32:19

boats of rival about a hundred

32:21

kilometers south of Guatemala's capital

32:23

provoked anger among several Christian

32:25

organizations.

32:25

This anti

32:27

abortion activist said it's

32:29

a in. Why don't you go to Holland and kill

32:31

children over there? Why come to Guatemala?

32:34

We're already cursed enough.

32:36

You

32:36

know, every time that we sealed out,

32:38

We were called to the police station,

32:41

and we were questioned by the

32:43

police. And so what we always said is,

32:45

well, we sealed

32:47

out We gave sexual education. While we were

32:49

on the way to international waters,

32:51

and what happened in international

32:53

waters, it's none of your business anymore.

32:55

That's the Dutch government. So

32:57

if you want to have any questions about it, you

32:59

will have to discuss this with the

33:02

Dutch government.

33:05

normally

33:05

after running a couple of missions,

33:08

quietly, wound on graves then

33:10

holds a press conference and

33:12

tells the media and the government what they've been

33:14

doing and and that they plan on doing

33:16

it again. And the point

33:18

there is to raise

33:20

awareness, to grab attention, to

33:22

show the insanity of

33:24

these laws and the sort of human consequences

33:26

of them. And then also to

33:29

see if the government is going

33:31

to attempt to stop them on their next

33:33

mission out, which often they

33:35

do. For the

33:35

strategy of women waves, the

33:37

media is essential. It's extremely important

33:40

because it allows the debates

33:42

in these countries to open up

33:44

and to show another reality

33:47

that it's actually the reality in other

33:49

countries is different. that it's a human

33:51

rights and that making abortion

33:53

illegal is harming women.

33:55

And that is reality that they're

33:57

normally not presented by the

33:59

mainstream media.

33:59

and the and the ship gives that possibility to

34:02

do that, to reframe the

34:04

topic. So

34:05

for example, During

34:07

the campaign in Portugal, the

34:10

apportionment's boat was stopped

34:12

by warships. It couldn't

34:14

enter Portugal

34:16

because the minister of defense had

34:18

said that we were threat to national security.

34:20

oh

34:23

you

34:25

why

34:33

we

34:33

decided that we had to

34:35

do something to counter this

34:37

quite aggressive act from the

34:39

Portuguese government. And in Portugal,

34:41

at that time, a medicine

34:44

called Artotec, which contains

34:46

mycoprostol, which really works very

34:48

well to induce an abortion as well

34:51

by itself was available over the counter

34:53

in most of the pharmacies. But

34:55

many people didn't know about it,

34:57

actually nobody knew

34:58

about it. And so we

34:59

decided that I will take the box of

35:02

this medicine and I will

35:04

explain on the

35:06

public television that women can

35:08

actually go to the pharmacy to buy

35:10

this medicine and how they

35:11

can use it. And

35:17

what happened

35:19

is that the next days the

35:22

hotline were

35:24

overwhelmed with phone calls

35:26

by women who had seen the talk

35:28

show run to the pharmacy, bought the

35:30

medicines and said, and now what? How do I

35:32

use it? So it actually created a change in

35:34

public opinion. And two

35:36

years later, a abortion was legalized

35:38

in Portugal.

35:47

What does

35:48

capacity look like?

35:51

You can go to school.

35:53

Okay. They're roll roll. You can

35:55

be small and I flew

35:57

down to a

35:58

place called Ixdapa,

35:59

Mexico, a small port in the state

36:02

of Guerrero, And

36:04

the goal was to quietly go there,

36:06

to meet up with Rebecca and her

36:09

team, the vessel would be

36:11

brought into port We would wait

36:14

until the young women

36:16

who were being assisted were

36:18

onboarded, and then we would head out

36:20

for the first stage of the mission to high

36:23

seas. I think we kept track

36:24

of these banners because there was a guy from

36:27

Harbor. He said we cannot sell

36:29

there without permission. Okay. I

36:31

don't wanna have opens now. And he has

36:33

to still fill

36:34

me now. Okay.

36:39

Rebecca is a fascinating

36:40

character to meet her in person.

36:42

She's so mission focused

36:46

that the possibility of

36:49

being killed, being incarcerated,

36:51

being disappeared, doesn't

36:54

seem to matter a whole

36:56

lot first. In

36:57

Mexico, we were invited

37:00

by women's rights organization

37:03

called Hiret, to one of the states that has one of

37:05

the most restrictive portionals. And the

37:08

women's groups were quite nervous because it's

37:10

also one of the States where there's

37:12

a lot of Norco traffic,

37:14

and they were kind of nervous

37:16

that the Norco bosses might

37:18

turn against the ship or not

37:20

be supportive. There

37:22

was quite a lot of nervousness about that.

37:26

Yeah. So

37:29

the first thing we

37:31

did when the boat

37:32

was in Mexico because of

37:35

our experience in Portugal, we

37:37

had learned that it's best for the ship to be

37:40

there already before we announced

37:42

it in the

37:44

press conference. At the press

37:45

conference, Rebecca did two things.

37:47

One, she told everyone

37:49

that she had just

37:51

the day before engaged in our first

37:54

mission, taken young women out to sea

37:56

and administered an abortion. And

37:58

number two, She told the

38:00

public that she planned on doing the

38:02

same again on the second mission the

38:04

next day.

38:11

well

38:20

For

38:20

context here, it's important to remember

38:22

that Mexico is a Roman Catholic

38:24

stronghold it has been for centuries.

38:27

Abortion is illegal throughout most of Mexico

38:30

and criminally prosecuted. And

38:33

This prohibition is so aggressively

38:36

enforced that, you know, hospitals

38:38

are expected to report suspicious

38:41

miscarriages to the police just as they might

38:44

gunshot wounds. you know,

38:46

think about the

38:48

reaction here and you had a

38:50

foreigner who was a female who

38:52

under the nose of this police state

38:54

essentially, Guerrero and all these cops had come into port and done

38:57

this thing that was deeply offensive. You

38:59

know, this was in a front

39:01

on so many different levels. and

39:04

really irked both the state government, the local officials

39:06

as well as the federal government. I

39:10

want to talk with a local health official to

39:12

get their

39:14

reaction the press conference, so I called them. And their response

39:16

was we think what she's done

39:18

is illegal, but we're still collecting

39:22

details. hours later,

39:24

these same officials called

39:26

comforts and the sort of

39:29

weaponizing of maritime

39:31

bureaucracy had begun. We

39:34

were called by

39:35

the harbor authorities for

39:38

questioning. And one of the reasons

39:40

was that they said that the crew

39:42

had used tourism, visa, to come in,

39:44

instead of saying that they were there

39:46

for a job doing work

39:48

visas. So

39:50

we understood that they were trying

39:52

to stop the ship from sailing

39:54

out and coming back. And

39:56

so we had a huge argument with them about

39:58

it, and we looked into all the legal

39:59

documents and in the end. We

40:02

just agreed to disagree.

40:04

The

40:04

bureaucrats then said that

40:06

while she couldn't leave port because of

40:09

bad weather. She quickly pointed out quite rightly that plenty

40:11

of other ships including some smaller were

40:13

still leaving port unobstructed

40:17

And so sort of the Fujitsu hand

40:19

to hand combat went like

40:21

that until ultimately Rebecca won

40:24

and was able to leave report on her

40:26

next mission. But all the

40:28

while realizing that there was a ticking clock on

40:30

her before the next

40:32

obstacle was thrown

40:33

in her path. We're

40:38

going

40:38

when i'm on later

40:41

now. You can go

40:43

on up. And we roll.

40:44

Yes. Okay. Alright. I'm

40:45

gonna go up to the frat and push

40:47

it off.

40:48

On the mission

40:50

out, there were two young women who

40:53

had been assisted to get across the country and

40:55

quietly and anonymously and they made

40:57

to the ship. The ship was then

40:59

planning on leaving port quickly

41:01

because they were IS REAL WORRY THAT LOCAL POLICE WERE

41:03

GOING TO AT ANY MOMENT, FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON

41:06

AND STOP THE MISSION. IT'S

41:08

CLEAR

41:09

BACK THERE Right? Yep.

41:12

Yeah.

41:12

Hope

41:14

to see you.

41:18

Back.

41:19

at this point, I'm trying to be unusually

41:21

quiet and invisible because I'm

41:24

truly an outsider in this

41:26

context and I'm trying not

41:28

to take up much space or attention. But I'm

41:30

also just fixated on

41:32

the dynamic of Rebecca and

41:34

how nervous intense and driven she is to make sure

41:36

that they can get these women out to

41:38

see the weather was

41:40

terrible on that particular day. And so

41:43

the window to get the ship out

41:46

was really tight. Are

41:48

you

41:48

still there? Yeah.

41:50

Because you are very tight here. And

41:53

Okay. Gogo.

41:58

Wow. You must. Not

41:59

good. Not good

42:02

at all. You know, we

42:03

we nearly ran a shore twice and ran

42:05

a ground once in in the effort. But finally, we

42:07

made it out of port. We make it

42:09

past the waves

42:12

and the adrenaline of that began to subside. And

42:15

with that descended

42:16

upon us this silence on

42:20

the

42:20

ship.

42:46

Okay. See

42:48

that? Can you read what's on the GPS

42:50

for me? Yes. Turn it

42:52

around.

42:52

The position on the GPS is 5500949

42:58

Okay? I will film the GPS

43:01

again.

43:04

we crossed the line and Rebecca

43:06

quietly came up onto deck and

43:08

shot a look to one of the two young

43:10

women we were carrying and they

43:13

went to quiet room below deck. And

43:16

there, doctor Comforts

43:18

did what doctors do. get

43:21

introduced into

43:24

you? Okay. My

43:30

role as

43:31

the doctor is to make

43:34

sure that she's an

43:36

unwanted pregnancy, that she's taking

43:38

the decision and the

43:40

pregnancy free will. I make an

43:42

ultrasound to make sure that she's not pregnant

43:44

too long and that she can

43:46

still use bills, which was, of course, the case. And I sure

43:48

that she understands

43:51

how it works.

43:53

was and she understood, and she was very

43:56

relieved to be able to do this.

43:58

And, yeah, she's wanted

43:59

to fill.

44:07

I

44:10

met women on waves because I saw the commentary of the Monette Place

44:13

called Faisel. I found out on Monday that

44:15

I was pregnant and yes,

44:18

day I decided I

44:18

wanted to come on the boat. I think the boat shows the absurdity

44:21

of the loss and the absurdity of

44:23

being lucky to be in

44:25

one place not another, or you can have access to

44:27

the rights you deserve.

44:33

and

44:34

then we sealed back. And when we entered

44:37

the harbor

44:37

again, we said we are

44:39

here again. And that

44:42

was it?

44:51

I

44:51

asked Rebecca whether she

44:53

viewed herself as an outlaw,

44:56

and I expect her to give me an

44:58

unqualified yes, but that's not

45:00

what I heard. what she said was, no, she doesn't view herself

45:02

as an outlaw. She views herself as an

45:04

artist. For whom the

45:06

art is

45:08

to find exactly

45:10

where that loophole is in the law

45:12

and to gracefully navigate through

45:14

it, not to break the law.

45:17

but rather to respect and find

45:19

his nuances, and that was

45:21

her

45:22

art. We

45:23

are not going into see

45:26

to break any laws. It's using the

45:28

discrepancies between the different

45:30

legal realities

45:32

and laws

45:33

The interesting

45:34

thing is that for profit companies around the

45:36

world, that's all they do. They

45:38

have all these companies set up in

45:41

all these islands and different states

45:44

order to comply with one law, but not with the tax laws

45:46

of other countries. And in a

45:48

sense, women waves is doing the same

45:50

thing, but to further human

45:53

rights. So, no, I don't think of myself as

45:55

an outlaw. I'm

45:59

a legal loophole. nepal That's

46:01

what I am.

46:16

mister

46:18

and missus Bates, a teenage son and daughter, have

46:19

great plans for the island fortress. Their

46:22

notion of an independent state has

46:24

vast commercial

46:26

potential. It has been ruled in court that sealant is outside British territory

46:28

of waters. So something a nose

46:30

at the mainland. Each morning, the sealant flag

46:32

is raised high above the low

46:35

near little land.

46:45

You

46:45

can't find two organizations and two

46:48

people that are more different than

46:50

woman on waves and sealand

46:52

or Rebecca Comforts and

46:54

Roy Bates. I mean in in women

46:56

on waves who have a mission that

46:59

is aimed at helping

47:02

other people. And then in sealant, on the other hand, and in Roy

47:04

Bates, you have a

47:06

project that is largely self

47:08

serving. You know, it's really not

47:10

making a

47:12

point to the world. It's really not for the betterment of anyone else.

47:14

It's just driven by this

47:16

sort of libertarian individualism. and

47:20

directed by this guy

47:22

who has lots of charm and

47:24

ingenuity and daring and

47:26

also a big ego. But

47:28

what they have in common

47:30

is this deeply independent

47:34

inner voice. and this

47:36

independent mindedness is something that

47:38

I've noticed was unusually common

47:41

out at sea.

47:43

There's a

47:48

long deep tradition of

47:50

people viewing the

47:52

sea as the epitome of of freedom and

47:54

opportunity and specifically of

47:56

opportunity to get away from

47:58

tyrannical

48:00

governments you know, the idea of women on waves

48:02

is not unlike the idea that the

48:04

Bates family had

48:06

with Zealand. and that was to

48:08

take advantage of the freedom of the

48:10

seas to do what they

48:11

wanted. I don't know

48:14

whether it's that people are

48:16

made more independent minded by

48:18

being out there or whether independent

48:20

minded people end up going

48:22

out there or

48:24

both. But certainly is

48:26

overrepresented offshore.

48:39

I

48:41

think one

48:44

of the most defining features of

48:47

the experience of being offshore is the

48:49

grappling with silence and

48:52

solitude. And

48:54

if you really wanna get a feel for why

48:56

seafarers talk a certain way

48:58

or interact a certain way,

49:02

what is both corrosive and addictive about the

49:04

sea experience, then you

49:06

really have to reckon with and

49:09

experience firsthand that silence.

49:14

One mariner

49:18

said to me you get

49:20

very good at talking yourself at

49:22

sea. Another seafarer

49:25

described the inner voice that

49:27

you cultivate at sea is soul

49:29

whispers. I think that's what causes folks

49:31

to have to feel less

49:34

dependent on other people

49:36

and more

49:38

invested in their own thoughts and that

49:41

fertilizes, if you will, this

49:44

independent mindedness. It's

49:50

absolutely true

49:50

that people that have been at sea for

49:53

a long time. they are very different from people

49:55

that have never been at

49:58

sea. There will always be this

49:59

love relationship and

50:02

longing back to this

50:04

place at the boat

50:06

in the middle of nowhere

50:08

and to find that

50:11

overwhelming sense of of

50:15

of nothingness

50:17

nothingness.

50:21

There's one quote

50:24

that really

50:25

stuck with me from

50:28

Ernest Shackleton wrote

50:30

men go out into the void spaces

50:32

of the world for various reasons. Some

50:35

are actuated simply by a

50:37

love of adventure Some have

50:39

the keen thirst for scientific

50:42

knowledge, and others again are drawn

50:44

away from the trodden

50:46

paths by the lore of

50:48

little voices. the mysterious

50:50

fascination of the

50:52

unknown. This is

50:55

the sole whispers that other mariner had mentioned.

50:57

It's this inner conversation, these little voices that you

51:00

allow to speak to you in your

51:02

head when you're out

51:04

there, and and they're

51:06

really alluring.

51:08

You go out there pursuing this

51:10

metaphor of freedom and I think

51:13

when you are in the space, you're immersed in reality of it. You quickly

51:15

realize it's not just a a notion

51:17

or an idea. It's actually The

51:20

freedom is

51:22

lived experience.

51:24

I think this instinct for escape

51:26

and adventure has been in

51:28

our DNA

51:30

for millennia and you you don't find it anywhere

51:32

more on display than

51:34

on the outlaw version.

51:43

oh

51:52

all

51:58

On

52:06

the next episode

52:08

of the

52:09

Outlaw Ocean, we've seen so many

52:11

vessels chasing so

52:14

few fish and these depleted stocks mean that in the

52:16

future, local fishermen are gonna miss out. One

52:18

European vessel fishing off West

52:20

Africa can take as much in

52:22

one month a

52:24

seven thousand local fishermen catch in a

52:26

year. In all countries of the world,

52:28

we have wiped out ninety percent

52:30

of the big fish, and that

52:33

is very hard for people to conceive. Basically,

52:36

industrial fishing is vacuuming

52:39

the

52:39

ocean. From

52:41

CBC Podcast, and the LA

52:44

Times, this series is created and

52:46

produced by the Out Low Ocean

52:48

Project. It's reported and hosted

52:50

by me Eon Irvina, written and produced by Ryan

52:52

French, editing and sound

52:54

designed by Michael Ward, sound

52:56

recording by

52:58

Tony Fauch color. Our associate producer is Margaret

53:00

Parsons. Additional production by Joe

53:02

Galvin and Marcella Ben.

53:04

This episode features music by Haimuro

53:08

Yoshi teru, Patricia Spiro,

53:10

Apoquelim, Ben Walter, Smoke

53:12

Trees, Stone Face,

53:14

and Terminal, antarctic

53:16

waste lands, good weather for an airstrike,

53:19

Jai, Jardish, Melarman,

53:21

and Manuel Zetek. Their

53:24

music is available online at the On

53:26

Locean Music Project website

53:28

and wherever you stream music.

53:30

Please check out their

53:32

work. Additional music by Scott

53:34

Codeswarf, Britt Brady, Matthew

53:37

Stevens, Gamatone, and

53:40

Fabio Naciement.