0:01

Welcome to steph you missed in history

0:03

class from how Stuff Works dot Com.

0:11

Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

0:13

Tracy B. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying.

0:15

Today we are picking up where we left off

0:18

in our two part podcast on the evacuation

0:20

of Dunkirk, known as the Miracle of Dunkirk

0:22

or Operation Dynamo, at

0:24

least in the UK in the US

0:27

not necessarily known by that name other

0:29

places. Last time, we talked about at the

0:31

beginnings of World War two and how from

0:34

May nine to tenth, Germany

0:36

invaded Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Luxembourg,

0:39

Belgium and France, and then over the next

0:41

ten days basically plowed right

0:44

through the Allied defense with advanced units

0:46

making it all the way to the English Channel. This

0:48

was an efficient, highly

0:50

strategic maneuver on Germany's

0:52

part to win very quickly because

0:54

Germany knew it could not outlast its enemies

0:57

in a drawn out war. So if you have not

0:59

heard that episode, this

1:02

one will probably make basic sense.

1:05

This is where most of the movies, books, and TV

1:07

shows about the evacuation of Dunkirk start

1:09

off. Anyway, But those first weeks

1:11

of World War two you tend to be glost completely

1:14

over, particularly for Americans, since

1:16

the United States had not joined the war riort

1:18

at that point. Plus it is often

1:21

portrayed as France just sort of rolling

1:23

over and surrendering immediately

1:25

with no resistance, which is not accurate.

1:28

So if you would like to know more about that, it is back in

1:30

Part one, and we have the same caveat

1:32

here as Part one. Even at two parts,

1:34

this stretch of history is just incredibly

1:36

complicated. There are multiple multi

1:38

hundred page books that get into

1:40

all the fine details of all the individual

1:43

towns and troop movements and military decisions.

1:45

So we're trying to strike a balance

1:47

with these two episodes between the two main modes

1:49

of telling this story, one of which is basically

1:51

three sentences, and the other

1:54

is seven hundred pages of more detail

1:56

than you could possibly want. After the first

1:58

German forces plowed through France

2:00

and reached the English Channel, the Allied

2:03

forces in France and Belgium were left in disarray.

2:06

Not only did they hold no central point

2:08

from which to rally, but they were increasingly

2:11

cut off from one another, with communication

2:13

and supply lines disrupted. They

2:15

were also being surrounded and pushed towards

2:18

the sea, with German forces moving

2:20

in from multiple directions. If

2:22

you look at maps of how this progressed, the

2:24

arrows representing Germany essentially move

2:27

in from all sides through the Netherlands,

2:29

Belgium, and France. Germany

2:31

also dropped pamphlets to that effect, showing

2:33

the Allied positions surrounded by Germany

2:36

urging them to surrender. Yeah, if you've seen

2:38

one of the many trailers for Dunkirk where you see

2:40

somebody holding this, this pamphlet that's

2:42

been dropped out of an airplane that basically is like,

2:44

here's us, here's you, You should surrender.

2:47

Like that is based on a real thing. On

2:50

May one, the Allies

2:52

tried to mount a counter attack near

2:55

a rapt in northwestern France.

2:58

From the start, this was a long Many

3:00

of the tanks involved had been moved to

3:02

Belgium earlier in May to fight the German

3:05

invasion there. Then they were moved

3:07

back into France when it became clear that Germany's

3:10

efforts in Belgium were a diversion,

3:12

with the primary attack really coming into

3:14

France through the Ardennes in the southeast.

3:17

That was about three hundred miles of travel over

3:19

the course of ten days without a lot of opportunity

3:22

for repair maintenance. The

3:24

Allied force was able to inflict heavy

3:26

damage at the start of the fighting, but

3:29

soon tanks started to break down

3:31

and the German force, which had been thrown into

3:33

confusion in the initial assault, regrouped.

3:36

The German forces, superior numbers in

3:38

terms of both men and tanks, soon

3:41

overwhelmed the Allies, who once again

3:43

had to fall back. However,

3:45

the Allied counter attack had done enough

3:48

damage in those first hours that the German

3:50

high command started to fear that if

3:52

they had more armored divisions in

3:54

one place, the Allies might actually

3:56

turn things around. So from Germany's

3:58

point of view, it became even more critical

4:01

to win and win quickly. It

4:03

was clear at this point that the Allied forces

4:06

just did not have the strength to repel the German

4:08

army, not in the state that they were

4:10

in, encircled, divided, and being

4:13

driven towards the coast. The

4:15

German military was faster, more

4:17

nimble, and in general better prepared,

4:19

and France and Britain were still reeling from

4:21

having fallen directly into Germany's trap.

4:24

So on May,

4:27

rather than continuing to fight what was obviously

4:30

a losing battle, General John

4:32

Gort, Commander in chief of the British Expeditionary

4:34

Force, recommended that they withdraw

4:36

back to Britain. Although

4:39

this was a unilateral decision

4:41

that disregarded France's plan to continue

4:43

fighting, it was not a hasty one.

4:46

Gort had presented this as the wisest

4:48

option as early as the nineteen

4:51

and non combat personnel had begun to

4:53

be evacuated at that time. From

4:55

the British point of view, the proposed evacuation

4:58

was not an abandonment of rants or

5:00

of the war effort. Britain would still

5:02

be fighting alongside France by sea and

5:05

by air, but it seemed clear

5:07

that the only other options in terms of ground

5:09

troops were surrender or death. In

5:12

either of those scenarios, hundreds of thousands

5:14

of soldiers would either be killed

5:16

or imprisoned, leaving Britain with almost

5:19

no infantry or armored divisions.

5:22

In that scenario, Britain expected that

5:24

Germany would invade and Britain wouldn't

5:26

have the means to stop it, so retreating

5:28

back across the Channel was a tactical

5:30

move to get the British Expeditionary Force

5:33

out of harm's way. At least relatively

5:35

speaking, so they could plan a strike against

5:38

Germany that would actually work. From

5:40

the French point of view, Britain was abandoning

5:42

them to face Germany alone. Between

5:45

May twenty three, when General Gort called

5:47

for an evacuation and May when

5:49

Winston Churchill authorized it to begin,

5:52

the British Expeditionary Force made preparations

5:54

to escape. With the loss of the

5:56

Port of Calais, Dunkirk was the last

5:59

port that the all Eyes could access. The

6:01

Allies reinforced the canals around Dunkirk,

6:04

moved troops and equipment into position, and

6:06

gathered as many watercraft as possible.

6:09

This included a lot of smaller military

6:11

vessels that were to be used as tenders, ferrying

6:14

men from the port to the larger ships awaiting

6:16

off the coast. The initial plan

6:18

was to use Dunkirk's port to remove forty

6:21

five thousand troops over the span of two

6:23

days. This was not anywhere

6:25

close to the number of troops still left

6:28

in Belgium and France, but Germany

6:30

was rapidly closing in from multiple

6:32

directions. Many of the British

6:34

troops were just too far away to make

6:36

it to Dunkirk before Germany's

6:38

inevitable victory there. This

6:40

really seemed certain, especially since

6:43

some Handser brigades had already reached

6:45

the defensive line around Dunkirk. But

6:48

on May there was a pause

6:50

in the relentless German assault. The

6:52

advanced troops fell back, and for about

6:55

forty eight hours the bulk of the German

6:57

ground force stayed put. Their

6:59

continues to be debate about exactly

7:01

why this was. If Germany

7:03

had pressed ahead, Dunkirk would have fallen

7:05

before many troops could have been evacuated,

7:07

but instead Germany stopped.

7:10

In all likelihood, it was probably a

7:12

combination of several of the most likely

7:14

factors. There was the practical

7:16

need to refuel and maintain the panzers

7:19

that had gotten head, and to generally

7:21

resupply. It's also likely

7:23

that the German army thought it would be possible

7:25

to stop the evacuation by destroying

7:27

the ships from the air. The area

7:29

around Dunkirk was surrounded by

7:32

canals that the tanks couldn't cross without

7:34

pontoon bridges, and it was also

7:36

marshy and easily flooded, leading to

7:38

fears that the tanks could become mired

7:41

nearing an assault. The Allied success

7:43

in the early hours of the counter attack at

7:45

Ross may have raised fears that another

7:47

stronger counter attack was being planned,

7:50

and there are various contradictory theories

7:52

about how Hitler was regarding Britain at

7:54

this point, whether he was perhaps

7:56

hoping to negotiate a peace and stayed

7:59

his hand with the hope of using it as a tool

8:01

during negotiations. Of

8:03

course, the counter argument to that is that he would have had

8:05

a much bigger card to play if he had just captured

8:07

the British Army. Regardless of

8:09

what prompted it, that brief repreve ultimately

8:12

allowed far more troops to get to done Kirk,

8:14

and it gave the force already there more time

8:17

to bolster the fortifications. And without

8:19

this pause, the massive evacuation

8:21

that we will talk about after a sponsor break

8:23

could not possibly have taken place. May

8:34

was scheduled to be the first full day of

8:36

Operation Dynamos evacuations,

8:38

which were being planned and overseen by Bertram

8:40

Ramsey, Vice Admiral at Dover. But

8:43

Captain William Tennant, who was responsible

8:45

for managing the operations in the port

8:47

at Dunkirk, arrived that day to find

8:50

that the German Luftwaffe's air raids, which

8:52

had gone on for more than twenty four hours, had

8:55

destroyed most of the port facilities,

8:57

and as that was happening, the Belgian dens

9:00

was crumbling on. Belgium

9:03

sued for an armistice, removing

9:05

Belgium's fighting force from the defense.

9:08

Belgium would surrender to Germany the following

9:10

day. The entire situation

9:12

immediately became more complicated. The

9:14

destruction of Dunkirk's port made

9:16

the evacuation of Allied troops vastly

9:19

more difficult, and the newly opened hole

9:21

in the Allied defense made it more precarious.

9:24

Captain Tennant concluded that it would be

9:26

far too time consuming to move troops

9:28

directly from the shore to the ships. The

9:31

water near the shore was much too shallow for

9:33

even most small boats to get close. Dunkirk's

9:36

beaches were sandy and gently sloping,

9:38

which made it a very popular vacation destination,

9:41

but that shallow water meant that men would

9:43

have to wade for up to one hundred yards

9:45

even to get into a smaller vessel, and

9:48

that smaller vessel would then need to carry its

9:50

passengers to a larger vessel waiting

9:52

in deeper water, plus

9:54

those larger vessels couldn't take a direct

9:56

route between Dunkirk and Dover. Germany

9:59

control old the port at Calais to the south,

10:02

along with much of the water around it, and

10:04

could train guns on the French coast

10:06

from its position at Calais, so ships

10:08

going back to Britain had to take a very roundabout

10:11

way, sometimes traveling far

10:13

north along the French and Belgian coasts

10:16

before turning to cross the channel. A

10:18

large scale evacuation directly from

10:20

the beaches was just not feasible.

10:23

Ultimately, Captain Tennant decided

10:25

to evacuate the troops from one of the breakwaters

10:27

that protected Dunkirk Harbor. It was known

10:29

as the East Mole, and this was

10:31

a long jetty made from concrete, stone

10:34

and wood, with water on either side, deep

10:36

enough for destroyers to be moored there. It

10:39

basically made a bridge from the shore out

10:41

to waiting ships, and while some

10:43

of those evacuating still did have to wade

10:45

out into the water, sometimes for hours,

10:48

the East Mole became the primary evacuation

10:50

point. About two hundred thousand

10:52

of the men evacuated were taken from the Mole.

10:55

Additional makeshift jetties were also constructed

10:58

by driving vehicles into the water at

11:00

low tide and then reinforcing

11:02

them with wood and other materials. As

11:05

British troops were able to reach Dunkirk,

11:07

they gathered on the beaches queuing up to a

11:09

wait departure, and it was overall

11:12

a harrowing weight. The

11:14

men were hungry, thirsty and dirty,

11:16

and many were wounded. Although bad

11:18

weather kept the Luftwaffe away for a

11:21

couple of days during the evacuation, the

11:23

area was otherwise under continual

11:25

air assault. The air was clouded

11:28

with smoke from burning oil tankers and

11:30

smoldering ruined ships. The beach

11:32

itself and the town of Dunkirk were also

11:34

increasingly filled with derelict vehicles

11:37

and other military equipment, deliberately

11:39

put out of commission to keep them from falling into

11:42

the hands of Nazi Germany. It

11:44

was immediately clear that the British Expeditionary

11:46

Force would need more boats than it had to

11:48

successfully evacuate. Even

11:51

by mooring destroyers along the East Mole,

11:53

removal of the troops was proceeding too slowly.

11:56

Britain had already created a civilian

11:58

small vessels rediter for the war effort,

12:01

and on the Admiralty

12:03

began contacting people who had listed

12:05

their boats. They would eventually broaden

12:08

the net, putting out a call for any small

12:10

vessel that was very shallow in the draft

12:12

and could get close to the Dunkirk beaches.

12:15

Owners were directed to take their boats to several

12:17

staging areas before proceeding to Ramsgate,

12:20

which was the departure point for the fleet of

12:22

little ships. The little ships ultimately

12:25

included civilian vessels of almost

12:27

every conceivable use. There were

12:29

yachts and other pleasure craft, fishing

12:31

boats, lifeboats, ferries, fireboats,

12:34

racing boats, and steamers. Some of

12:36

the little ships were captained by their owners

12:38

or day to day operators. This was particularly

12:41

true of fishing boats, whose owners were

12:43

well experienced on the water already.

12:46

Others were either handed over to or

12:48

commandeered by the Royal Navy to be

12:50

helmed by military personnel, regardless

12:53

of whether they were going all the way back to Dover or

12:55

to a larger ship farther offshore. The

12:57

little ships were critical to the evacuation

12:59

if for allowing far more men to be

13:01

removed from Dunkirk and doing a job

13:03

in incredibly dangerous circumstances.

13:06

The evacuees weren't necessarily safe

13:09

once they got onto a ship. Though Hitler

13:12

had ordered Hermann Gurrig, the

13:14

Luftwaffe commander in chief, to destroy

13:16

the British Expeditionary Force. This

13:19

he tried to do by bombing Dunkirk, primarily

13:21

but not exclusively, focusing on the ships

13:24

out in the harbor. Men waiting

13:26

on shore witnessed already loaded

13:28

boats and ships being bombed and sunk, with

13:30

the survivors of the initial impact drowning

13:33

or being crushed by debris before they could be

13:35

rescued. This made leader

13:37

of ecuees reluctant to go below decks

13:39

once they were aboard themselves, because it would

13:41

be harder to escape if the ship that they were on

13:44

were bombed or torpedoed. The

13:46

destroyers that were pulling men from the East

13:48

Mole weren't intended as troop transports,

13:51

and with the men refusing to go below, their

13:53

decks became so overloaded that there was

13:55

no room to crew the ship's guns.

13:57

Was also apparently a harrowing ride. Since

13:59

they couldn't crew the guns, they had to do extra

14:02

zigzagginus to get back across

14:04

the channel, and since they were very top

14:06

heavy. With

14:11

careening going on

14:14

on, the Liftwaffe's

14:16

activity in Dunkirk reached its

14:18

peak. Ten destroyers and

14:20

eight personnel ships were either sunk or

14:22

put out of commission on that one day,

14:25

some by the Liftwaffe and some by Navy torpedoes.

14:28

Even so, forty seven thousand

14:31

troops were rescued just that day

14:33

while under heavy fire. Throughout

14:35

the evacuation, the Royal Air Force

14:37

and Royal Navy tried to defend the transport

14:39

ships by sea and air, with the

14:41

RAF providing twenty four hour air

14:44

cover while consistently outnumbered

14:46

by German aircraft. A lot

14:48

of the RAF activity wasn't actually visible

14:50

from the shore or the evacuation route, though,

14:53

which led to the assumption that there was no air

14:55

cover, even though the RAF lost one

14:58

forty five aircraft while defend in the

15:00

evacuation. As the evacuation

15:02

war on. This led to a lot of friction

15:05

and hard feelings between the Air Force and

15:07

the other branches of the British military, and

15:09

there are a lot of stories about people disembarking

15:13

one of the ships and running into a pilot being like where

15:15

were you guys, and the answers

15:17

they were they were they were in the air.

15:20

The evacuation at Dunkirk was originally

15:22

a British plan to save the British Expeditionary

15:25

Force, but on May twenty nine, France, which

15:27

had previously planned to stay and fight, joined

15:30

the evacuation effort as well contributing

15:32

French ships to the effort and evacuating

15:34

French personnel. France's

15:36

involvement in the evacuation was marked

15:39

as this whole

15:41

period of the war with numerous

15:44

miscommunications and misunderstandings.

15:47

French troops arriving in Dunkirk on June

15:49

one and second believed they were going there to

15:51

be evacuated, but they had really been sent

15:53

to mount a counter attack. Another

15:56

miscommunication played out on the night of June's

15:58

second through third, when French troops

16:00

that were being evacuated were sent to

16:02

the beaches when the ships were

16:04

really waiting at the east Male. By

16:07

the time the men learned where they were supposed to

16:09

be and got to the mole the ships had

16:11

left was further heightened the

16:13

sense of bitterness over Britain's decision

16:15

to evacuate. French high

16:17

command gave the last remaining troops the

16:19

order to evacuate on June three.

16:22

However, many of this last rearguard

16:24

who tried to evacuate had their way blocked

16:27

by deserters who had been hiding in Dunkirk

16:29

and rushed the ships to try to get away. Many

16:32

of these French troops were ultimately captured.

16:35

Between May and June four,

16:38

three hundred thirty eight thousand, two

16:40

hundred twenty six troops were evacuated

16:43

from Dunkirk, two hundred thirty

16:45

nine thousand, five hundred and fifty five were

16:47

taken from the harbor, and ninety eight

16:49

thousand, six hundred and seventy one from the surrounding

16:52

beaches. It was roughly a sixty

16:54

forty split of British and French

16:56

troops, with a small number of troops from other

16:58

nations. Well. General Gort

17:01

was evacuated on the thirty to keep him

17:03

from being captured by the Germans, both

17:05

for strategic reasons and because it would have been hugely

17:08

devastating to morale if that had happened. So

17:10

this was far far beyond

17:12

the initial plan of forty five thousand

17:15

people rescued, and it was not

17:17

by any stretch without consequences,

17:20

and we'll talk about all of that after we first

17:22

paused for a sponsor break.

17:30

British propaganda surrounding the Dunkirk

17:32

evacuation began almost immediately.

17:35

The term Dunkirk Spirit came into

17:37

use, signifying a coming together

17:39

to steadfastly faced down adversity.

17:42

The fleet of Little Ships became an emblem

17:44

of bravery and perseverance that persists

17:47

today today. There's even an association

17:49

of Dunkirk Little Ships that mounted a smaller

17:51

scale return to Dunkirk in On

17:55

June four, the day the

17:57

evacuation ended, Prime Minister Winston

17:59

Church gave his famous we shall fight on

18:01

the beaches speech, which is quite

18:04

rousing, and it he noted, quote,

18:06

we must be very careful not to

18:08

assign to this deliverance the attributes

18:11

of a victory. Wars are not won

18:13

by evacuations, but there was

18:15

a victory inside this deliverance

18:18

which should be noted. The

18:20

victory inside this deliverance, though, was

18:22

incredibly hard one, as

18:25

some troops were waiting at Dunkirk to be evacuated,

18:27

others, primarily British and French.

18:30

We're defending a twenty five mile that's

18:32

about forty kilometer front around

18:34

the perimeter of Dunkirk, and this was the

18:36

absolute last line of defense, with

18:39

the defenders only job to hold off

18:41

the Germans as long as possible to protect

18:43

this evacuation. The British

18:45

troops had received this order as quote, you

18:47

will hold your present position at all

18:50

costs to the last man and last

18:52

round. This is essential in

18:54

order that a vitally important operation

18:56

can take place. As

18:58

the evacuation war on to the

19:00

last man increasingly included

19:03

men who were two wounded to get to an

19:05

evacuation ship, along with medical

19:07

personnel who had volunteered to stay.

19:10

This defense force was also relatively

19:12

speaking poorly armed. Tanks,

19:14

anti aircraft, guns, and other heavy

19:17

equipment had largely been destroyed

19:19

or rendered inoperable before the evacuation

19:21

began to keep it from being put into

19:23

use by Germany, which meant that it also

19:26

could not be put into use by the defenders

19:29

during the evacuation. Eight thousand,

19:31

sixty one British troops and one thousand,

19:33

two hundred thirty Allied troops were killed.

19:36

At the end of the war. At least fort hundred

19:39

British troops who had been present in continental

19:41

Europe in May of nineteen forty

19:43

were missing with no known grave site

19:46

because they had been without real medical care

19:48

for so long. Injured British soldiers

19:50

who did make it to Dover had often

19:52

contracted gang green or had wounds

19:54

that were infested with maggots, but the

19:56

French losses were much much

19:59

higher. About forty thousand

20:01

French troops left behind during the evacuation

20:04

became prisoners of war. Those

20:06

who survived their time as POWs

20:08

were not liberated until ninety

20:10

five, and in terms of the war

20:12

up until that point, France had faced

20:15

huge losses. From May tenth

20:17

to June fourth, roughly sixty eight thousand

20:20

British troops were captured or killed for

20:22

the French, though that number was more than

20:24

two hundred thousand. Germany

20:26

lost far far fewer troops during

20:28

this time than either Britain or France.

20:31

At least two hundred and forty vessels

20:33

were lost during the Dunkirk evacuation,

20:35

including nine destroyers, six

20:37

from Britain and three from France. Another

20:40

twenty six destroyers were damaged. Of

20:43

the nine hundred thirty three ships that took part

20:45

in the evacuation, two hundred thirty

20:47

six were lost and sixty one were

20:50

put out of commission. Because

20:52

of the number of men that needed to be evacuated,

20:54

and the constant pressure to remove

20:56

them quickly before the Germans broke through.

20:59

The All Eyes also left behind

21:01

a wealth of equipment, including

21:03

tanks and other vehicles, anti

21:06

aircraft, guns, firearms,

21:08

helmets, as much of it as possible

21:10

rendered inoperable before leaving it behind.

21:13

Food, fuel, and other supplies

21:15

were also abandoned during the evacuation.

21:18

To be clear, these were not small amounts.

21:21

Approximately sixty thousand vehicles,

21:23

two thousand, five hundred guns,

21:25

seventy six thousand tons of ammunition,

21:28

and four hundred thousand tons of stores

21:31

were left behind. What couldn't

21:33

be destroyed was reclaimed by

21:35

Germany. There were also whole

21:37

groups of troops that were stranded during

21:39

the defense of the evacuation and then were captured

21:42

or killed. On May

21:44

in Wormoot, France, roughly thirty

21:47

kilometers southeast of Dunkirk, about

21:49

a hundred British and French soldiers who

21:51

had been part of the rearguard were taking prisoner

21:53

by the s S. Nearly all were

21:55

killed in what came to be known as the

21:57

Wormoot massacre. When the SS

22:00

three grenades into the barn where they were being

22:02

held, then removed and shot the survivors

22:04

in groups of five. Only fifteen

22:07

survived this initial massacre,

22:09

but so many of them were severely injured

22:12

that most of them had died within days of escaping.

22:15

On May thirty one, thirty five

22:17

thousand troops were captured at Lee, roughly

22:20

eighty kilometers southeast of Dunkirk,

22:22

when they were cut off as the wider perimeter

22:24

around Dunkirk collapsed. Germany,

22:27

of course, also continued its assault

22:30

on France. After the evacuation was complete

22:32

on June ninth, the focus turned to

22:34

Paris, with Italy also declaring

22:37

war on France on June tenth. The

22:39

French government fled on the

22:41

France surrendered

22:43

on June, with Hitler arranging

22:45

for the surrender to be signed in the same

22:47

train car on which Germany

22:49

had surrendered at the end of World War One.

22:52

This was a humiliating defeat for France,

22:54

with the intentional use of the train car

22:57

compounding that humiliation, but

22:59

it was not at all the sudden arrival of troops

23:01

on the steps of Paris followed by an immediate

23:03

surrender as it is so often described.

23:06

Francis surrender up ended Britain's

23:08

plans for a return to fight on the ground

23:11

after regrouping, although the

23:13

British Navy and the Royal Air Force continued

23:15

the fight and ground combat continued

23:17

in Northern Africa and other parts of Europe.

23:20

It would be nearly four years before Britain

23:22

launched another major assault on the ground

23:24

in France that took place on

23:26

the D Day Invasion of Normandy and amphibious

23:29

assault involving American, British and

23:31

Canadian forces among others. Although

23:34

Charles de Gaul refused to accept the

23:36

French surrender and continued to try

23:38

to plan a French military resistance from

23:40

Britain. After the surrender to Germany,

23:43

the official French government continued to

23:45

be led in Beauty France by Marshall

23:47

Philippe Pitan, who cooperated

23:50

with Nazi Germany and was later convicted

23:52

of treason. My conjecture

23:55

is that it is really possible that if the Vty

23:57

government had not started collaborating with the

23:59

Nazis, the fall of France would be portrayed

24:01

much more as a valiant but doomed

24:03

effort, not as a cowardly

24:05

surrender. I think that's a fair assessment.

24:08

It is that is largely like that

24:11

that move is is kind of what's pointed

24:13

to in terms of like, oh, look at

24:15

these guys to just do whatever just to stay

24:18

alive. They'll they'll collaborate with anybody

24:20

which is not after after having previously

24:23

lost more than two hundred thousands. And

24:25

of course, a German attack on Britain

24:28

did arrive as feared, although it did not

24:30

involve troops on the ground. The Battle

24:32

of Britain and the Blitz stretched from July

24:34

nineteen forty two May of nineteen

24:36

forty one. So while

24:39

the evacuation of Dunkirk was a

24:41

success and that it saved the lives

24:43

of hundreds of thousands of Allied

24:45

personnel, far more than the

24:47

original plan, it was also unquestionably

24:50

in military because it has to be Yeah,

24:54

I don't think the movie is going to really frame

24:56

it as a catastrophe, at least based

24:59

on I know. No, it's Christopher

25:01

Nolan. He's not really like the here's

25:03

your happy ending kind of director. So

25:05

we'll see had I think, what,

25:07

Yeah, we will see.

25:10

H do you have a miraculous email? I think Julie.

25:13

Julie rode in and said, Hi, Tracy and Holly.

25:15

I'm a sports radio host in Chicago who

25:18

often works late into the night, and I rely on

25:20

missed in History to get me through my forty five

25:22

minute commute from Downtown

25:24

back to the suburbs almost every night.

25:26

It just so happened. I was driving home from my studio

25:29

when I started listening to the episode on the Eastland

25:31

Disaster. My commute takes me right

25:33

along the Chicago River, and I was right on top

25:35

of the exact spot the Eastland went

25:37

down when you started discussing it, just between

25:40

Clark and Lass South Streets. I think

25:42

most Gen xers who grew up in Chicago or

25:44

had relatives from Chicago grew up

25:46

knowing about two events, the Eastland Disaster

25:49

and the fire at the Our Lady of Angels

25:51

School in probably

25:54

because so many of us had grandparents who

25:56

lived through both events and talked about them during

25:58

our youth. I was especially gratified

26:01

to hear you mentioned Marshall Fields helping

26:03

out with the recovery effort after the Eastland

26:05

went down. It was just one of the reasons

26:07

so many people in Chicago were ridiculously

26:09

loyal to the department store, one of

26:11

the others being Field's decision to rebuild

26:14

its flagship store in Chicago after the

26:16

Great Chicago fire. Many of

26:18

us were extremely upset when Fields was bought

26:20

out and became Amazings. I'm including

26:22

a couple of pictures of a plaque along Chicago

26:24

River that commemorates the victims of the Eastland.

26:27

Hope you enjoy Keep up the amazing work, Julie.

26:30

Another listener named Anne also sent us

26:32

pictures of a memorial at the Bohemian

26:34

National Cemetery where a hundred and thirty four victims

26:37

of the Eastland disaster are buried.

26:39

So thanks both of you for sending these notes

26:41

in these pictures. If you would

26:43

like to write to us, we are at History Podcast at how stuff

26:45

works dot com. We're also at Facebook dot

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26:50

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26:56

is how stuff Works dot com and get all

26:59

kinds of information about whatever your heart desires.

27:01

And you can come to our website miss and history

27:03

dot com for show notes, searchable

27:05

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27:08

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27:10

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27:20

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