0:00

Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History

0:02

Class from how Stuff Works dot com.

0:12

Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Sarah

0:14

Dowdy and I'm Deblina Chalk reporting. And

0:16

before the holidays, we recorded

0:18

an episode on a few of the great underground

0:21

cities of the world, and a lot of folks

0:23

have written in since then suggesting other

0:25

city we knew that would happen, cities that we

0:27

had missed um but one in particular

0:30

was actually already on our list

0:32

for a full length episode about

0:35

underground world of London. And

0:37

London, of course has many potential

0:40

underground stories, but the one

0:42

that we're going to be covering today stems

0:44

from a popular listener suggestion

0:47

in its own right, and that is the

0:49

Great Stink. And

0:51

you might be wondering if that is a metaphor for something,

0:54

and we're here to tell you no, it is not.

0:56

It actually refers to a particularly warm

0:59

Victoria in summer when the stench of

1:01

London sewage filled Thames got very,

1:04

very bad. So this podcast

1:06

is about a bad smell. So

1:09

the stink, though, you know, we're not going to just talk

1:12

about it. If that was all it was, people remembered

1:14

it being a particularly stinky summer. Some

1:17

pretty major changes came

1:19

because it just got that bad.

1:22

Um. Some radical improvements to

1:24

an outdated sewer network, some

1:26

public health improvements, um.

1:29

And it also helped change the face

1:31

of nineteenth century London and put into

1:33

place systems that actually last

1:36

to this day, something I found particularly

1:38

remarkable about this story. But first

1:40

let's just be frank. Yes,

1:43

the waste issue in nineteenth century

1:45

London had a lot of components, industrial

1:47

chemicals, lie from the city's many

1:49

laundries, butchered animals,

1:52

all things that make for a stinky river

1:54

with no fish and no birds. But

1:56

the big issue was human

1:59

waste. So before we get to the great

2:01

stink and and talk about how that came about, we

2:03

really have to discuss how people handled their

2:05

business, should we say, leading

2:08

up to the Victorian era and during

2:10

that era. So according to Smithsonian's

2:13

Past Imperfect blog, London

2:15

has actually had a sewage system since

2:18

Roman times, and it was added

2:20

to of course, it was expanded during the medieval

2:22

period, but pretty hephazardly.

2:25

The sewers were built and presided

2:27

over by different districts in the city, so

2:29

there was no uniformity between them. There

2:32

was certainly no grand plan. There was no map

2:34

even of like your city's entire sewer

2:36

system. More seweries were added

2:38

on in the seventeenth century, but this

2:41

network is haphazard as it was

2:43

wasn't even meant for waste

2:45

in the first place. It was it was for

2:48

storms who were runoff, even though we have to assume

2:51

due to the medieval habit of dumping

2:54

your chamber pot out the window or into

2:56

the gutter, or simply going outside probably ensured

2:58

there was some waste in the sewer system,

3:00

but that was not its intention. It was for runoff,

3:03

and of course that rain

3:06

water could safely enter

3:08

the urban tributaries of the

3:10

Thames, which side note here to a

3:13

lot of those are now called the lost

3:15

Rivers according to the Council for British Archaeology,

3:18

because they're not rivers anymore.

3:20

They're not tributaries of the Thames. There underground

3:23

covered sewers that lead

3:25

to it. So okay, you're probably wondering,

3:28

though, what actually happened

3:30

to Londoner's waist. If it didn't

3:32

hit the sewers well, most

3:35

made it into suspits which were hidden

3:37

under or behind homes, and these suspits

3:40

they'd be filled gradually with the

3:42

contents of chamber pots. So

3:44

when your suspit was full, you'd simply hire

3:46

a night soil man who would come out

3:48

with a cart and load up the contents

3:51

to be used north of the city as an agricultural

3:53

fertilizer. But it's easy to

3:55

see why this system eventually

3:58

went wrong. Yeah, for

4:00

one thing, cesspits. You know, it's

4:02

not the it's not a modern

4:04

system like you might have um now

4:06

if you weren't connected to the sewer network. They

4:09

leaked sometimes and they would send raw

4:11

waste into the ground water and

4:13

eventually mix in with the Thames, which

4:16

was where Londoners drew their

4:18

water from. So that's problem number

4:20

one. But the big problem came

4:22

with the city growing too

4:24

much, too fast right again.

4:26

According to the Council for British Archaeology,

4:29

London's population exploded from

4:31

not even one million people in eighteen o one

4:33

to nearly three million in eighteen sixty

4:36

one. Outlined villages were

4:38

absorbed by the city, farmland

4:40

or green space was built up and packed with new

4:42

residents, and all the problems of overcrowding,

4:45

including unsafe housing, pollution,

4:48

over full cemeteries, all those things

4:50

just became worse, and even well

4:52

before that eighteen sixty one population

4:55

figure, there are already more than

4:57

two hundred thousand cesspits

5:00

in London by eighteen ten, so

5:02

certainly getting to the point where too

5:04

many suspits too empty to cart

5:07

out of town to use as fertilizer

5:10

in a safe way, not like a gross

5:12

dumping ground sort of way, no pun intended.

5:15

Um. So yeah, clearly, clearly things were

5:17

getting out of hand. And around

5:19

the same time that the suspit

5:21

count was starting to creep beyond two hundred

5:24

thousand and the population was still steadily

5:26

climbing, London sewage system

5:28

had another major blow, and

5:31

that was the adoption of the flushing

5:33

toilet and UH last summer,

5:35

just as a side note to

5:37

to this um information about

5:40

the flushing toilet UM, I

5:42

read Lucy Worsley's book about the history

5:44

of the home last summer. It's called If Walls Could

5:46

Talk, and it's filled with all sorts

5:48

of interesting details about the rooms

5:50

of the modern home UM. But one of

5:52

the most interesting facts in

5:54

that bathroom section was that the

5:57

flushing toilet was not a recent

5:59

invention. I mean, you're you're probably thinking, okay,

6:01

this is we're talking about the early nineteenth century, right

6:03

now, that sounds about when

6:05

you would imagine the flushing toilet to have

6:07

been invented. Britain's first

6:09

flushing toilet that really came about in Elizabethan

6:12

time. That was really surprising to me. Yeah,

6:15

it was actually invented by a man named Sir John

6:17

Harrington and installed in his home and

6:20

in one of Elizabeth's palaces. But

6:22

these cistern connected chamber

6:24

pots had some design flaws and didn't

6:26

really catch on. Some of the problems were stink

6:29

producing d pipes, daily water

6:31

priming, lots of water use,

6:33

and leaks, and they were only occasionally

6:36

installed because of that, always in fine

6:38

homes, and most folks continued the

6:40

portable chamber pot system instead.

6:43

But by the early nineteenth century, redesigns

6:45

plus the right PR power

6:48

behind the right PR guys promoting these

6:50

things made the flushing toilet

6:52

or water closet whichever way you want to refer

6:55

to it finally take off. And

6:57

unfortunately though, the waste disposal method

6:59

of water closet, which is obviously

7:01

very water intensive, didn't mesh well

7:03

with the suspit set up. There was just too

7:06

much stuff there. Yeah, I mean, we don't

7:08

need to go into the grizzly details

7:10

here, but you can imagine. I mean, if you have a system

7:12

that's set up for mostly solid waste,

7:15

suddenly it's um not so

7:17

solid anymore. It's not going

7:19

to work very well as night soil and

7:22

as something that is portable anymore.

7:24

It's just sewage. It's just gross, and

7:26

there's way too much of it in London. So

7:29

people began to connect their drains

7:31

to the city sewer system,

7:33

the same sewer system that was meant

7:35

for storm water and that drained

7:38

into the Thames. So by eighteen

7:40

fifteen it was permissible to do so.

7:42

By eighteen forty eight it was mandatory

7:45

you had to connect your drains. The

7:47

Metropolitan Commission of Sewers even

7:49

ordered that all the suspits be closed,

7:52

so there wasn't another option. So

7:54

of course there were some problems with

7:56

this. Uh. For one thing, a hard

7:59

rain mean that your storm

8:01

sewer connected drains now

8:03

backed up with raw sewage into your home,

8:05

which is really terrible and I don't want to talk about them

8:08

anymore. But the bigger problem

8:10

was that all of those old sewer systems

8:12

did drain into the Thames where

8:15

Londoners, as we keep on saying driving

8:17

this point home got their water from.

8:19

According to the Smithsonian, by the eighteen

8:21

forties the Thames saw

8:24

more than one fifty million

8:27

tons of waste jumped into it. So

8:30

problems, problems to say the

8:32

least. Unfortunately, though,

8:34

it wasn't until the eighteen fifties that people

8:37

really began to understand germ theory

8:39

and that diseases like cholera were contracted

8:41

through contaminated water. And

8:43

I think you and Katie covered kind of a related

8:46

topic to this, right, yeah, one very closely

8:48

related the story of Dr John

8:51

Snow and his ghost map,

8:53

and um, it just had to do with the

8:56

cholera outbreaks that London experienced

8:58

in the eighteen hundreds and

9:01

in his attempts to discover

9:03

what was really behind him. I mean, just to give you

9:05

some figures here, These are serious

9:08

outbreaks of disease. The first

9:10

major outbreak was in eighteen

9:13

eighty two one people

9:15

died in Great Britain. Uh,

9:18

the next outbreak in eighteen forty

9:20

eight and nine, fifty four thousand died.

9:22

And in the third outbreak in eighteen

9:24

fifty three and four, again thirty

9:26

one thousand people died in Great Britain.

9:29

Many of them Londoners, and

9:31

Snow made his discovery his

9:34

his discovery that cholera was something that could

9:36

be um transported

9:38

through water, and that you could drink water

9:40

that looked perfectly clean and

9:43

and catch this this disease

9:45

from it. Uh. It seems pretty obvious

9:48

to us now, but it

9:50

ran completely contrary to

9:53

the popular scientific

9:55

thought of the time, yea, so much so

9:57

that it took Snow years to convince the

10:00

piers that cholera was contracted through water.

10:02

Instead, most people believe that diseases

10:05

were spread through bad air or miasma.

10:08

So a disease filled swum didn't necessarily

10:10

need clearly separated sewage

10:12

and water systems, It just needed better

10:15

air. Kind of ventilation system

10:17

in there would protect you from contracting

10:20

cholera even if you were drinking

10:22

this gross Thames water um.

10:25

So this incorrect belief, though

10:27

ironically, made the idea of an updated,

10:29

really super connected throughout

10:32

London sewer system a little

10:34

bit dangerous sounding, because if you think about it

10:36

from that perspective, drains

10:39

bad air spreading. Could

10:41

your homes drains be allowing

10:44

bad air and from the other part of the

10:46

city, from other parts of the cities of Lucy

10:49

Worsley again even talks about people keeping

10:52

plugs on their drains at all times

10:54

so that nothing would come

10:56

give them cholera from it. The

10:58

belief in my asthma, though, which lasted

11:01

long after snows debunking of it, unfortunately,

11:04

it makes the eventual Great Stink

11:06

seem all the more significant and probably all

11:08

the more terrifying for people. Right.

11:10

It was eighteen fifty eight in London, and London

11:13

had experienced its hottest summer on

11:15

record. The stench of the Thames became

11:17

completely unbearable. For those who

11:20

were by the river, it was practically

11:22

suffocating. The best accounts of

11:24

the stink come from Members of Parliament

11:26

who were holed up riverside, and

11:28

according to the Council for British Archaeology

11:31

on June seven, one MP complained

11:33

quote, it was a notorious fact

11:36

that honorable gentlemen sitting in the committee

11:38

rooms and in the library were utterly

11:40

unable to remain there in consequence

11:42

of the stench which arose from the river.

11:45

Eleven days later, the Times of

11:47

London reported that quote A

11:49

few members bent on investigating

11:51

the matter to its very depth. I like that

11:53

it's eleven day Right rights point ventured

11:56

into the library, but they were instantaneously

12:00

even to retreat, each man with a handkerchief

12:02

to his nose, and most famously,

12:05

the MP's attempted to block the smell

12:07

by soaking the curtains and chloride of

12:09

lime, but that didn't even

12:11

help a bit. Now it was it was out

12:13

of the league of chloride

12:15

of lime and um.

12:18

Interestingly, there

12:20

had been a body established to handle

12:22

the sewer problems. It wasn't like people were just ignoring

12:25

this issue. Year after years, the population

12:28

grew and things got worse and worse. The

12:30

Metropolitan Board of Works had been set

12:32

up, but unfortunately nobody had bothered

12:35

to see that. The Board of Works had funding

12:37

to complete massive public

12:39

works projects like building a new sewer

12:42

system. But now with the

12:44

members of Parliament suffocating in their chambers

12:47

and graphing handkerchiefs to their

12:49

noses and soaking their curtains and lime,

12:52

things got fast tracked prioritized.

12:55

So by July eight a bill passed

12:58

granting the Board of Works power to barrow and

13:00

levy money for an updated sewer system.

13:03

So they were finally and

13:05

moving into the future. Yes,

13:07

Over the next seven years, the Board of Works

13:10

and Chief engineer Joseph basil

13:12

Jet developed a system that totally

13:14

the waste of London outside of town and away

13:17

from the river that ran through the city's heart. As

13:19

a testament to its design, much of that system

13:21

is still used today. Yeah, a point

13:24

we we made earlier. That's one of

13:26

the more impressive aspects of this

13:28

story. According to Port Cities

13:30

London, basil Jet's plan did

13:33

run contrary to a lot of the

13:35

ideas of the day. Are a lot of the possible

13:38

solutions for for this issue, which

13:41

at the time ran more towards still

13:45

used still building a sewer system, but instead

13:47

of pumping it outside of town towards

13:49

the river, pumping it outside of town

13:52

and still using it as fertilizer

13:54

kind of in the old night soil way. But

13:56

basil Jet realized that this was

13:59

an inefficient idea. There were just

14:01

too many people in the city, there was too much sewage,

14:03

and the agricultural areas were of

14:05

course getting further and further away as the

14:08

city grew. So his idea

14:11

was to continue dumping the sewage

14:13

into the Thames, but to do so

14:15

away from the city, uh downstream

14:18

from where people in London at least

14:20

got their water. The first major

14:23

part of his plan involved intercepting

14:25

sewers, and these ran along both

14:27

sides of the river, connecting to the old sewers

14:29

that once drained right into the river, and

14:31

from there the intercepting sewers carried

14:34

their contents east by gravity to

14:36

one of two pumping stations, one on

14:38

either side, and these raised

14:40

the sewage to outfall sewers that would

14:43

then carry the contents off to reservoirs.

14:45

At high tide, the outfalls would

14:47

be emptied into the Thames down river

14:49

of London. So the outfall

14:51

sewers and the reservoirs were

14:53

just huge. The reservoirs are a little

14:56

again kind of horrifying to think about, but the

14:58

outfall sewers just of you some numbers on

15:00

these. The northern outfall sewer was more than

15:02

four miles long, the southern

15:05

outfall sewer ran almost entirely

15:07

underground. And uh, these

15:10

are still considered impressive engineering

15:12

feats. Even even if they were built

15:14

today, they would still be in that league.

15:17

Um Basil Jett was also able

15:20

to accomplish a lot of this

15:22

this work, uh in a very

15:24

tucked away, sort of out of sight manner.

15:27

You know, these weren't just all sewers

15:30

running in clear sight. And the

15:32

way he was able to do that was

15:34

by building embankments along the

15:36

Marshy River banks of the Thames,

15:38

and that's probably the most visible reminder

15:41

of his work. You don't see a lot of sewers,

15:43

of course, but uh, the park like

15:45

embankments in London, UH

15:48

meant that central streets didn't have to

15:50

be torn up, buildings didn't have to be torn

15:52

up to build these massive sewer pipes.

15:55

It reclaimed land that

15:57

was was not being used, and it

16:00

also hid new parts of

16:02

the London Underground the Metropolitan

16:04

Railway at the time. You know, if you're

16:07

tearing all this up and laying pipes

16:09

in lay a tube

16:11

station in as well. So according to Worsley,

16:14

basil Jets work resulted in more

16:16

than one thousand miles of sewer. It

16:18

also used about three D eighteen

16:20

million bricks, and it allowed for the widespread

16:23

adoption of the flushing toilet just

16:25

as an aside. The eighteen fifty one Great

16:27

Exhibition also helped with that too. Though

16:30

many people got out to the exhibition

16:32

to try to flush a toilet

16:34

for the first time, they just you know, while

16:37

they were out seeing the other marvels

16:39

at the Great Exhibition. The facilities

16:41

happened to include flushing

16:43

toilets, and they got to try them for the first time

16:46

see how one of them works, since probably not too

16:48

many people were going to Elizabeth's old old

16:50

palace. Uh. One of the starkest

16:53

signs though, I mean, those are impressive numbers,

16:55

of course, But one of the starkest signs of

16:58

basil Jets success was

17:00

London's fourth and final major

17:03

color outbreak, which took place in eighteen

17:05

sixty six. It was mostly

17:07

limited to the east end of London,

17:09

which was the one part of town that hadn't

17:12

yet been hooked up to the new sewer

17:14

system, so clearly John Snow's

17:17

ideas about how colors spread

17:19

bore out with that, and also basil

17:22

Jet's ideas about santation um.

17:25

Still, though on that subject, sewage

17:28

was still, of course flowing directly into the

17:30

towns just east of London. There

17:32

was still no sewage treatment in place,

17:35

um, something that's a

17:37

little striking to to consider,

17:39

and things got bad pretty pretty

17:41

quickly. I mean, why wouldn't they Near the outfalls,

17:44

mud banks of sewage started to pile

17:46

up. Um. Sometimes there would be so

17:49

much waste being discharged into

17:51

the river that waiting for high

17:53

tide to just whisk it all away didn't

17:55

really work anymore. And um, the

17:59

every thing would come back up river. So

18:02

that problem didn't go unnoticed forever,

18:04

though obviously by the eighteen seventies,

18:07

a terrible accident is what finally

18:09

put it on the map. A pleasure steamer

18:11

called the Princess Alice was hit by a coal

18:13

ship and broken in half. The wreck

18:15

occurred near Beckton, which was one of the sewage

18:17

reservoir sites, and though few people

18:20

died in the accident, six fifty

18:22

died overall, most by drowning

18:25

in caustic sewage water and

18:27

sludge. In seven

18:29

treatment plants began filtering out sledge

18:32

from liquid. The liquids still went

18:34

into the river, while the sludge was trudged

18:36

out to see on special ships where it was

18:38

dumped at a spot called the Black

18:41

Deep. And this fact,

18:45

maybe this takes the cake, is the most surprising.

18:48

This went on until yeah,

18:50

that is startling. Um

18:53

now it is just in case you're interested

18:55

in how things played out since then.

18:57

Now about half of it is burned.

19:00

We're talking about London specifically, half is burned

19:02

half has turned into agricultural

19:04

fertilizer pellets. Uh, kind of going

19:06

back to the old night soil tradition. Also

19:09

interesting to the like

19:12

Beckton and the other the other spots

19:14

are still major waste processing

19:16

areas, so these their tradition

19:18

of that has has continued into the

19:21

twenty one century. Um.

19:23

So understandably, this is a pretty wild

19:26

story and it was certainly a strange

19:28

one to research, with all sorts

19:30

of weird things I came across,

19:32

like mentions of mythical sewer pigs

19:35

and queen rats. Um.

19:37

But one of the strangest aspects

19:39

and I just couldn't go without bringing it up

19:41

here at the end, were

19:43

the lives of so called tash

19:46

ers and uh. The Smithsonian

19:48

piece we mentioned a few times by Mike Dash

19:51

covered the life of these sewer

19:53

hunters, who were documented by

19:55

Henry Mayhew Man who wrote

19:57

some vignettes on Victoria

20:00

in London Life. But they were basically

20:02

guys who would go into the

20:04

sewers illegally and

20:07

search out useful items that

20:09

may have gotten lost them.

20:11

Um. It could be anything from a piece

20:13

of rope to something like a

20:15

treasure, you know, lost piece of silverware

20:18

coins that have been dropped on the street and then

20:20

swept into the gutter. And uh,

20:22

they were able to make a pretty

20:25

decent working class living

20:27

doing this, as terrible as it may sound,

20:30

Yeah, well, older toshers would know the invisible

20:32

crannies where things tended to accumulate,

20:35

and teams would even sometimes enter with

20:37

hooks and hoes to unearth their fine.

20:39

So they probably came up with a good bit

20:41

of stuff. He knew where to look. There were dangers

20:44

too, though, as you might imagine, flooded storm

20:47

sewers, high tide torrents

20:49

from legit sewage workers opening up

20:51

sluices, and maybe most horrifying

20:54

of all, at least according to Mayhew's Tasha

20:56

Interviews, hordes of rats

20:58

that would attack you and us you were in a group,

21:01

So again, I don't want to talk

21:03

about that one anymore. One

21:05

final note, though, the Great

21:08

Stink got a little nod this

21:10

past summer when the Lindon Dungeon

21:12

added a nose statue to the Millennium

21:15

Bridge that's the pedestrian bridge that crosses

21:17

the towns, to commemorate the

21:21

summer of the Stinky River,

21:23

and of course, to promote its own exhibit

21:25

on the subject that I looked up some pictures

21:27

of it. It is very strange. I

21:29

hope it's not just photoshop. Quite

21:33

a quite a strange site. Yeah, it's kind of

21:35

funny, and I mean just talking about toilet

21:37

history in general is and kind of has a humorous

21:39

aspect to it. But it's not to belittle

21:41

at all the significance of the

21:44

impact of this event on public

21:46

health. Yeah, and I think that's what makes

21:49

this a fascinating topic.

21:51

I do feel a little bit like I'm in third

21:53

grade and we're talking toilet Yeah.

21:57

But but yeah, the cholera,

22:00

the sanitation and um,

22:02

the sanitation reforms of Victorian

22:04

London have always kind of fascinated me.

22:07

So I hadn't learned

22:09

too much about this aspect of it, I think.

22:11

Um, I've I've read more about the

22:14

housing tenements, slums,

22:16

um, the masma and the

22:18

air all of that. Um, so

22:21

it was neat to to back some of that up

22:23

with this below ground aspect

22:26

of the story. So hopefully people got

22:28

something out of it as well, and we're able

22:30

to make it pass some of the more unsavory

22:33

I hope you don't listen during lunch

22:35

story. Yes, yes, agreed.

22:41

For this week's Listener Mail segment, we have a

22:44

few postcards to share. The

22:46

first one is from listener Amanda,

22:48

and she says, Sarah Dablina, this postcard

22:50

comes to you from Punta Kana, Although

22:52

a very tourist driven place, I'm excited

22:54

to tell you that there's a shipwreck right off its coast.

22:57

I know how fascinated you guys are. The

22:59

ship it's self was called the Astraun I

23:01

hope I'm saying that correctly, and it was bringing

23:03

corn to Cuba in nine eight

23:06

until a bad storm broke it apart. I

23:08

was able to see its pieces from a helicopter tour.

23:10

Yep, it's still there. Thank you for that,

23:12

Amanda. It's a very pretty pretty

23:15

pictures on the front which we were

23:17

there. Um. We also got a postcard

23:19

from listener Audrey, who sent another

23:22

beautiful winter more wintry sort

23:24

of postcard from Patagonia, and

23:27

she even said that today

23:29

I listened to your podcast in the strangest

23:32

and coolest place I've ever been, on top

23:34

of a glacier in Patagonia, so

23:36

that's really neat. Another

23:38

cool, more old fashioned postcard. I actually

23:41

think it might be an antique

23:43

postcard, uh that we got

23:45

from Shanti and it's just

23:47

a nice little horse. A guy had

23:50

fun pictures for the desk. We

23:53

also got some books, didn't we We did.

23:55

I guess my admission of

23:57

paying two dollars and fifty cents for Amazon

24:00

book moved several listeners,

24:02

which we really appreciate. But we came back from

24:05

the holidays and had several boxes

24:07

lined up with book contributions from

24:09

people, which is so kind of you, guys.

24:12

Michael sent us a book on Lafayette,

24:14

which I thought was was pretty

24:16

cool. I mean, of course it was sent before our episode

24:19

on on our double

24:21

Agent spy who worked for Lafayette

24:24

aired, but more to read

24:26

on him. And then also our listener

24:29

Hillary, who you guys know for sending

24:31

postcards from her travels around

24:33

the world, she sent us a book on her favorite violinist,

24:36

Mon Powell, plus some CDs that

24:38

we really look forward to listening to those.

24:40

Unfortunately, though, Sarah, I think we're going to have

24:43

to listen to those c d s separately,

24:46

or we'll have to have some sort of listening

24:48

party on our own time. Yea, because

24:50

I am going to be leaving how stuff works

24:53

to take another opportunity, which

24:55

I'm really excited about. It's something

24:57

I've been looking forward to for a while, so

25:00

I'm happy to be able to do that, but very

25:02

sad to be leaving house to works

25:05

and discovery and and

25:07

you in this podcast. That's probably

25:09

the saddest part of all, because I've really enjoyed

25:12

getting to know you. First of all, it's probably

25:14

been the best part of working on this podcast. We worked

25:16

together before, but didn't really know each

25:18

other that well, so, you know, getting

25:21

that friendship and out of it and

25:23

just being able to learn so much about

25:25

history over the past couple of years has been

25:27

amazing. And I am, of course

25:30

so happy for you and really excited

25:33

for you, but I will miss you so much.

25:35

And yes, I mean, of course the best thing is, um

25:38

having gotten to make friends with you over the

25:40

past few years we've been posting together,

25:43

UM, But also, I mean, really from day

25:45

one, I have been in awe of your

25:47

ability to pick out

25:49

the most obscure,

25:51

interesting topics, And sometimes

25:54

you tell me what you're gonna be researching,

25:56

and I just wonder where on earth you

25:59

here about that. I'll never tell you,

26:01

know, Deblina must have secret stores. You guys

26:04

um, but it's been so amazing

26:06

getting to work with

26:08

you and you just exposing

26:11

me to so many of those stories too than

26:14

well likewise, I mean I've learned so much

26:16

from working with you. I know, this is like turning into a love

26:18

fest that Seriously, you're smart

26:21

and you you really carry this podcast.

26:23

So it's been a pleasure to to learn

26:26

from you and work with you. Can miss you, Debilina.

26:29

I will miss you too, but luckily we still live

26:31

in the same town, so we do not

26:33

as much as we'll miss I mean, I'll definitely miss

26:36

the fans. See what we can cook up together.

26:38

Yeah, we'll see what we can cook up. So

26:41

um, it's still um. You know, I'm

26:44

sure the podcast will be continuing

26:46

in some form. Stay tuned, you

26:48

know, things are in the works. So um

26:51

look social media listening

26:53

in. There will be updates. We'll catch

26:55

you guys up to what's going to go down. Until

26:58

then, I just want to say go bye

27:00

to all listeners of this podcast. I

27:02

have so enjoyed getting to know

27:04

all of you as well over the last couple of

27:06

years, and there are so many I mean, obviously we'll

27:08

get a lot of critiques, which is you expect

27:11

from doing this sort of thing anyway. But we also

27:13

just to get so many kind notes

27:16

from people. It's really moving and I'm

27:18

starting to get choked up now, so I better stop

27:20

along those lines. But just to hear

27:23

from people who listen to this podcast all over

27:25

the world and the different ways that they

27:27

use it in their lives. Um, It's it's

27:30

been all inspiring and humbling

27:33

all at the same time. UM So I

27:36

guess that's it. Just thank you to all of you for

27:38

listening, and uh, you know, maybe

27:41

I'll get the chance to talk to you again in the future and

27:43

I'll second that too, So

27:46

bye bye

27:48

guys. Um and don't forget to check

27:51

out all the great content we have on our site and

27:53

look it up at www. Dot how

27:55

stuff works dot com

28:00

for more on this and thousands of other topics.

28:03

Is it how stuff Works dot com.

28:10

M