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Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History

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Class from how Stuff Works dot com.

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Hello, we welcome to the podcast. I'm editor

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Knadas Keener, joined by fellow editor Kaden

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Lambert. Good morning, candles, Good morning.

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I'm trying to speak with a little something

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extra in my voice, a note of enthusiasm

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and excitement, because the topic

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of today is happiness,

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and you know it really started brings you down if

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you hear it to your hosts talking about happiness and

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the sling thing would rather slip their risk and

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be talking into a microphone. I'll do what's

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past everyone, um exclamation

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points. Everywhere. Since

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the recession, I've noticed that all

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manner of publications and advertisements

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have been pushing a different type

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of fulfillment. You know, before with things

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if you have this bracelet, if you have this car,

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if you have this television, you know it'll

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make you happier because it adds a new type

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of Richmond to your daily life.

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But now I read and I see things

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about experiences as a way

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to fulfillment, and it

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seems like no matter if you're pushing a thing,

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a tangible thing or an experience, there's

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still marketing happiness. Can you

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really do that and what

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really is happiness. It

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seems like it might be appropriate to turn back

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to some of the oldest conceptions

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of what happiness really is. So we

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shall travel back to ancient Greece,

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and we're gonna hang out with Herodotus Um,

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who of course wrote the history, which

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is one of the classics of classics, if

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I can say that, and he tells

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the story of Crisus and Solon.

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Crisus was the richest

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man pretty much on earth. He

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was the king of Lydia. He was there Donald Trump,

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and Solon was an adene lawgiver and

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general wise man. And Crisis

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said to Solon very confidently

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that he thought he was the happiest man in the

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world, and so On basically called him

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an idiot and said the happiest man in

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the world was a guy named tell Us, who

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had been killed in battle at the prime of life.

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And the second happiest people were two brothers,

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Cleobus and Biden, who

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had carried their mother to a festival,

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yoked up to this cart like Oxen, and

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then died. So basically, the three

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happiest people in the world were all

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dead, which

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isn't really what you think of when you think of happiness

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so much um. But his point was

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that you can only figure out if you're happy

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when you're dead, because the

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possibility of chance and luck and fortune

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that's ended at that point, and

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otherwise you never know what's going to happen. The

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Greek idea of happiness was very

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dependent, I think, on the idea of chance,

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and we should mention, while neither of us

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has a degree in philosophy, if it has

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done a marked amount of research, that

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the closest word for happiness

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in Greek seems to be youd ammonia,

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which etymologically speaking at lay

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means living in a way that's favored by

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the gods, you meaning well and

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de moon meaning a spirit. So

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living well would be living

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happily, or living in a way that's pleasing

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to the gods. But happiness

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in a way that we can see that it, which

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could be ice cream cones and sunny

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days or you know, a rainy day in

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a book and an ice lamp, depending on what

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type of personality you have, wasn't

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It wasn't the way the Greeks thought about

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it. It was more or less

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a series of experiences,

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and of course that would vary depending

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on the philosopher you're looking at, and Katie's

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mentioned Herodotus, and I think

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that's an excellent place to start. And

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at the risk of sounding like we're we're taking

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off a list of different Greek philosophers,

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we are because we wanted to give you all a broader

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take of the Greek definition of happiness.

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And someone I find particularly interesting

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is Socrates. And Socrates

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was all about the soul and virtue.

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The Greek word for virtue is actually are

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at, which means something more along

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the lines of excellence. And socrates

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Is question was what makes

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an excellent person or what makes

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an excellent life? And

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it wasn't sensual pleasure, it wasn't money, it

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wasn't family, so sorry family,

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um. But he did have the idea that you

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can't achieve happiness, which was pretty revolutionary.

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This is something that you can get you personally,

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and to get to that, what you have to do

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is put your soul to rights. He basically

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believed that your soul could rot and

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die or it could flourish and you

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could live this good, flourishing life and

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the worst thing that could happen to you was to be a wicked

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person. So wicked people can't be happy.

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So just playing devil's advocate here, what

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if you're born with

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a wicked heart? I mean, I guess some people would

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argue that some people are born with kinder

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dispositions and some people have

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more inherent nasty spirits.

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And I think Aristotle had something

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to say about what you're born

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with and making the most of it. In terms of happiness,

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Aristotle had a bit of a grimmer view of

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happiness. Um, he thought it was really important

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to be of good birth and to have lots of friends

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and good friends, and money and children

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and a healthy old age and on

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and on. I presume he had all of these things himself.

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Well, the problem is that if you don't

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have these things, you can't be happy. But

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you can't exactly choose what you're born into.

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So that doesn't leave a lot of room for some of us.

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And in fact, he didn't believe that

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women had reason, and reason, of

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course, was the way to get to happiness.

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So chindas you and I are excluded

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from this whole happy thing. Apparently so. But

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I tend to be a pretty active person. I like

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to do things exclamation point.

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And that's a philosophy that Aristotle favored.

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He didn't think that attaining happiness

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happened by living passively. You had

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to be active. You had to actively be conceiving

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of ways to reach well

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being. The thing about Aristotle was that

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he believed that happiness was man's

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highest purpose, that we actually have an

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end point the teleological argument,

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and that separates us from animals and plants

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well, because we can think with reason, and

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he thought reason was the one thing that separated us.

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So if you acted with reason, you could

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find your way to the highest good, which was yourn

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ammonia happiness. But you

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know, of course, as women couldn't get there. And

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the thing that really gets a

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little bit depressing, Sorry Happiness

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podcast, was that he thought

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the best kind of happiness was a godlike happiness,

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which he also says is pretty much impossible

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unless you're born into that state, right, not

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even just you have to have all

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of those prerequisites, the good birth, the good

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family, and all the friends and the money

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and everything. And then out

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of those select few, because that narrows it

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down a lot, a couple

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of you, you know, might attain that whole godlike

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happiness thing, but the rest of us are kind of screwed.

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But I suppose if you're on the screwed

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end of the spectrum and you don't have a good family,

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and you're not attractive and you're

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childless, which are all things he pointed out,

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is being key to that state of contentment. You

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could say that instead of being bitter

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and cursing the state you're in, you could

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always strive toward happiness. You

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could you could take the point of view, well,

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maybe I don't have all these facets

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that are necessary, but I could still actively

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pursue some sort of contentment

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and well being well, and that might bring

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us to some of the later philosophies. I know

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you've been talking earlier about Epicureanism

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exactly, And if

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I had to pick a Greek philosophy

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of happiness, I think I'd go with

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Epicurean is um sort of the least of all

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evils, because I have to say that if

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one expects to live by some sort of Greek

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philosophy in the modern age, you're hopelessly anachronistic.

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And I don't think it's possible. And if you do, please

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email me immediately because I want to know how

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you're doing it. Um. Epicurus

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advocated detaching

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oneself from philosophy, essentially

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being a type of hermit. He did say, however,

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you can surround yourself with like minded folks

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and a commune, which is where he lived. And

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his big philosophy

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was attaining pleasure

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by avoiding pain. So

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you know, it takes two objects to cause

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friction. Two different services running against each

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other is going to cause a spark, cause some sort

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of disturbance, and he said, just

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avoid it, no friction. That's okay.

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You'll be happier if you just avoid that all

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together. And he was

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a hedonist, and today we may think of

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a hedonist to someone who drinks too much and parties

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too much and eats too much. But his

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definition or the definition that he abided

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by, was a little bit different. Um,

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Miriam Woobster just defines it as

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the doctrine that pleasure or happiness

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is the soul or chief good in

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life. And we're not talking a Dionysian

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sort of hedonism. He was epicurious,

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advocated a sort of ascetic lifestyle

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like Candice was saying, you know, living in a living

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kind of as a hermit. And even

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though he wasn't a set, he didn't believe in deprivation.

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Necessarily, he believed in moderation and

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simplicity, And just for argument's

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sake, I think that there's a whole industry today

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built on the idea of simplicity. You

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could confine yourself to a

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diet of bread and peanut butter, but if

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you go to a gourmet grosser and buy a fourteen

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dollar jar of almond butter and a ten

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dollar loaf of fancy bread,

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you're not exactly being an epicurean

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well, And I think the bottom line Frebertarianism

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was that if you don't want a lot of

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things, you can satisfy those

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few things that you have. Like, the worst

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thing that could happen is to have a bunch of unfulfilled

9:37

longings. And if you get rid of those

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desires by saying you only want, say, three

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things, instead of three hundred things, you

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up your chances of actually being able to accomplish

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that. And he also put

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mind over body in terms of

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happiness, the idea of an intellectual

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pleasure versus some sort of carnal

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or corporeal pleasure. And this is something

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that John Stewart Mill picked up on later when

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he talked about the kernel pleasures

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of food and drinking sex, and

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Epicurius actually advocated abstaining from

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sex as well as substaining from marriage.

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So well, there you go. But the

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exact opposite of hedonism as we would

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think of it today, really, but he

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would have argued that no matter what circumstance

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you're and no matter how painful it is, as

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long as you can put your mind over that

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situation, you can find

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pleasure mind every body. Aren't there

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all sorts of magicians today who talk about

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putting mind everyone's body? Are

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you saying, Epicaris, It's like David Copperfield, I

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don't know about that. It's an interesting proposition.

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I think one of the most striking things about Epicureanism

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was that Epicarius believed that there are

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gods who exist, but they're not

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even concerned with us. They

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don't care about you, They really

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don't. They like to do

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exactly god like things. And

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he was implying basically that you can make your own

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destiny because the gods don't care you're

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here, you're in motion, not do it, you will

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well. And if there is no divine order, the

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only things you have to depend on to figure

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out what's good and what's bad are

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your senses. And obviously

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pleasure is good. When you things are pleasurable,

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you feel good, and when you're in pain or

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you're anxious, you feel terrible.

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And stoicism is actually supposed to be

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the opposite of Epicureanism. They

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believed. Stoics believed that the

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universe was rational, harmonious whole,

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and since human beings are also rational,

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we should be able to find our place by

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living in a virtuous way, by living

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an excellent life. And it's funny

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because stoicism is supposed to be the total opposite

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of Epicureanism, but they do have a

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lot of things in common. They believe

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that you should be happy regardless of the external

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factors of what was going on. So you

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can't control the things that happened to you, unlike

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Aristotle. You know, you can't control how

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you're born and what you're born into, and

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you can't control disease and famine war,

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but you should be able to find

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your happiness regardless of what's going on.

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You should be stoic in the way that we

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use it today. And for

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the sake of argument and presenting another

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side of the happiness story, we're

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going to travel much further into

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the future, not the present day, but back

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during the Romantic period. And

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this has a little to nothing to do

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with the Greek philosophers, but it presents

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a very interesting contrast to

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their ideas of attaining happiness.

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And there's a book that came out not too

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long ago by Eric Wilson called

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Against Happiness and Praise of Melancholy.

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And Wilson is a noted professor of

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Romanticism at wake Forest University,

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and he abides by

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the philosophy of melancholia,

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and essentially what he explained in

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his word is that melancholy is an essential

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part of being a human

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being, and he defines it as

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a very active state. When we're melancholy,

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we feel uneasy in

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relation to the way things are, the

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status quo, the conventions of

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our society. We yearn for a deeper,

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richer relationship to the world. And

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he goes on, but I'm going to trail off there. And

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what struck me about this definition

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of melancholy and how it's

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a necessary contrast to living

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happily and obliviously some might

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say, is that it's so different

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from this idea of epicurean detachment

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it's sort of like being

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immersed in a world that you don't understand.

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You may be unlucky in it, you may

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not have a strong foothold in it. But

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that's a good thing. That's an excellent thing

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because it makes you almost hyper aware

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of your surroundings and your place in

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the world. And unlike the Stoics who would

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say take your lot and live with it, he's

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essentially saying, yeah, take

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your lot, but look how much

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you can do with it. Because out

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of this state of awareness and dissatisfaction

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comes great art, great

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poetry, which of course the

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Greeks had in spades when you look

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back at all sorts of Greek art

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and architecture and literature. What

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they also had and what we enjoy

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so much today, is the idea of democracy.

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And I was reading a really

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good book called Happiness, a History by

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Darren McMahon, and he

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was positing that perhaps the

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idea of democracy led to all these

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questionings of what happiness is and how you

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achieve it because people had a

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choice. They had a choice to elect

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who they wanted, a choice to participate at least

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in the process. And maybe

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you can also participate in the process of achieving

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your own happiness. And at the risk of sounding

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like a kindergarten teacher, we have that choice

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to every day when you wake up, you choose whether

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or not you're going to have them quote unquote right

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attitude. But happiness

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is, you know, it's more than just the smile

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you put on for the rest of the world. It

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is really no matter what philosophy you live

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your life by. It it's how you find enjoyment

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and fulfillment. And if you look at happiness

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like a line graph, it's

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different for everyone. For some people who live

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contentedly and happily, it's probably just

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a straight line. For other people who

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depend on experiences

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or themes to make their day, you probably

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see a line that goes up very

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sharply with a peak of happiness and then plummets

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with the trough of unhappiness and then up and down

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and up and down. And whether

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you prefer that type of line graph for your happiness

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cycle or a straight line again

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your choice. I feel like I should start singing

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more than a feeling. Oh that's a great

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song, um, and Katie actually is

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about too, but working to spare all of your

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ears. So we'll go ahead and let

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all of you go, But if you have any ideas,

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and for heaven's sake, if you are a real philosopher

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and you want to weigh in on any of this, email

15:49

us at History podcast at how stuff

15:51

works dot com or common on the blog.

15:54

And for more about the ancient Greeks and

15:56

ancient civilization, be sure to visit the

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