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Welcome. To Switched On Pop On

0:45

Musicologist neat slow know. A little

0:47

over a week ago we recorded

0:50

and episode it was around up

0:52

of the music in Twenty Twenty

0:54

Four that we love that we

0:56

hadn't had a chance to talk

0:58

about on the show. and I

1:00

mention this artist Rosie Tucker who's

1:02

album Utopia Now has been something

1:05

I've been listening to non stop

1:07

and we ran a brief excerpt

1:09

from that interview with Rosie Tucker

1:11

on the podcast we talked about.

1:13

Their song all My Exes Live In Vortex

1:15

is there a lot of things about the

1:18

song? I really dug the opening lyric. i

1:20

hope no one had to piss in a

1:22

bottle at work to get me the thing.

1:24

I heard it on the internet. Now

1:27

and. The

1:34

chorus that transforms halfway

1:37

through. Changing perspective in

1:39

the first course it says

1:41

you want everything all at

1:44

once. And

1:57

then in the. Final chorus it says.

2:00

One, Everything all at once.

2:14

I just couldn't get over this

2:16

albums a searing critique of late

2:19

capitalism while also acknowledging the an

2:21

escape ability of it, an even

2:23

the humor of it and and

2:25

kind of the weirdness of it.

2:27

To me this is an album

2:30

that perfectly marries a lot of

2:32

strong personal insights and grappling with

2:34

a sort of wider lens on

2:36

society and culture and the economy

2:38

at large as a hard thing

2:41

to do. But but Rosie and

2:43

their collaborator producer Will cease. Managed

2:45

to Thread the needle. These are

2:47

songs that have energy and Paulson

2:50

distortion, but they also have a

2:52

lot of tenderness and moon lot

2:54

of inwardness. so I just think

2:57

it's a remarkable mix and many

2:59

of you agreed. we. We got

3:01

comments demanding that we share the

3:04

rest of the Rosie Tucker interview

3:06

and you know I'm I'm I'm

3:08

gonna listen to the people Get

3:11

Without further ado, Here's. My.

3:13

Conversation: Dressy Tucker. I

3:16

am Rosie Tucker. More

3:19

details as that I

3:22

am a song and.

3:25

Instrumentalist from Los Angeles.

3:27

born and raised. Your.

3:31

The album is Utopia

3:33

Now. Exclamation Point: Yes

3:35

of are all caps. Exclamation

3:37

fine. Thanks for the correction

3:40

Assess. The. Very

3:42

first thing. That. We

3:44

hear. On. Utopia Now.

3:47

Is. A song called Light Bulb.

3:50

And. The very first

3:52

lyrics is. The. Light

3:54

bulb is updating and I sit in

3:56

the dark. Why

4:08

did you are that to be the

4:11

first thing that people heard when they

4:13

pets? That

4:15

this was one of the

4:17

very first that I wrote

4:19

after a long period of

4:21

kind of writer's block and

4:23

it just sort of naturally

4:25

ended up synthesizing a lot

4:28

of the really. Big.

4:30

Seems I was trying to relate

4:32

to and connect and I wrote

4:35

it on the piano which is

4:37

not normally. How. I

4:39

write I'm not an extremely

4:41

proficient piano player, and my

4:43

parents had. as a

4:45

birthday present. Paid. To

4:48

have my early childhood piano moved to

4:50

our home and so I had to

4:52

spend playing like city lake cause I

4:54

read ones that he was not very

4:56

good at the piano but that and

4:58

so that as always endeared me to

5:01

him because I love the piano but

5:03

I'm not good at it. I

5:14

wrote it and it just felt like

5:17

such a perfect expression of so many

5:19

of the things I had been thinking

5:21

about and then in production it became

5:24

something that even more was reflecting that.

5:26

and I insist that like a nice

5:28

way to introduce people to metal. Is

5:42

kind of arresting because this

5:44

idea of the light bulb

5:46

updating his at once kind

5:49

of such an absurd statement.

5:51

It's like the the Peak

5:53

of Technology inconvenience and also

5:56

just a big complete absence

5:58

of any life. Whatsoever.

6:01

Yes, Absolutely of product

6:03

whose intention is to maximize

6:05

efficiency gains. Has actually it

6:08

sailed and not to show

6:10

my hand or foot. Yeah,

6:12

I had purchased some colored

6:15

light bulbs and they needed

6:17

an app on my phone.

6:20

Any the app on my

6:22

phone needed permission to read

6:24

all of my text messages

6:27

a hand. I just felt

6:29

away about it and I.

6:32

Didn't use some. I feel like my

6:34

line be introduces us a lot of the. Tensions

6:37

that you're done of explore throughout

6:39

this album and and that's express

6:41

towards the end of the song

6:44

to maybe there's this really striking

6:46

moment when the rich production of

6:48

the song is kind of stripped

6:50

away. And that piano which

6:53

I guess your is your childhood piano comes

6:55

to the for and and is just year.

6:57

This is the piano in your voice. And.

7:00

You're singing almost like a medic

7:02

commentary on the process of making

7:05

the record that were hearing. Writing

7:27

the record you must wanted heard and

7:29

return on investment is all but assured.

7:31

successes. A steel where the prices obscured.

7:33

If you're doing it right then it

7:35

won't even hurt his. It's fair to

7:37

your like the have some ambivalence about

7:39

making this record. Yeah!

7:43

Assist assist know I love.

7:46

Making the record. I love

7:48

making the record, but I

7:50

had a great deal of

7:52

them through the lens upon

7:54

participating in a concerted way

7:56

in the music industry. As

7:58

a recording, our. This town.

8:01

In the course of creating

8:03

this record, all of these

8:05

songs were written with the

8:07

exception of one after Pandemic

8:09

Lock Down there and just

8:12

in a period of great

8:14

upset I I was dropped

8:16

by my label, but that

8:18

was kind of okay. I

8:20

parted ways with one long

8:23

term collaborator and also my

8:25

manager which was the biggest

8:27

one and had just sort

8:29

of be done. To. Assess

8:33

the ways that I had

8:35

kind of sold myself out

8:38

because I. Had.

8:40

Been. Functioning under an idea that

8:42

if I were to commit myself

8:44

to trying to be a recording

8:46

artist and a professional way, it

8:48

was going to elevate me to

8:50

a position where I would be

8:53

able to find my people, people

8:55

who listen to music, the way

8:57

that I do and relate to

8:59

art the way that I do

9:01

and. That was Not.

9:04

My experience but creating the record.

9:06

I got dropped about halfway through

9:08

recording it and it was incredibly

9:10

cathartic. It was a beautiful experience.

9:13

I have so much love for

9:15

this record. I'd love to talk

9:17

about. Paperclip. Maximize

9:20

Cool. What

9:40

is Paperclip Maximize your mean And when

9:42

where does a com. The.

9:45

Paper Maximize or is a

9:47

thought experiment about a machine

9:49

that is so effective at

9:52

creating paper clips. It's only

9:54

existence is creating paper clips

9:56

and it. Gets so

9:58

good at rearranging. Them so that they

10:01

become paper clips that the entire. Universe is

10:03

destroyed. Emotionally and

10:05

the song for me it

10:07

is functioning in terms of

10:09

watching a person who is

10:11

kind of willing to harness

10:13

everything in their life to

10:16

the end of their own

10:18

productivity. Or to courier. It's not

10:20

a of phrase that you would hear

10:22

and think like that needs to be

10:24

a song and yet when you're listening

10:26

to it it is so catchy and

10:29

only that but there are. I really

10:31

just got such a high listen to

10:33

some because you're dropping words like pen,

10:35

optical and ontological, you know? And I

10:38

read so much friends critical theory and

10:40

in college so I was like. I

10:53

think would serve enjoyable and mammy

10:55

be refreshing about listen to the

10:57

song is that even though you're

10:59

you're talking about all these heavy

11:01

things it's still it's so listening

11:03

booths so melodic it so can

11:05

even funky rhythmically and crunchy in

11:08

the in the kind of production

11:10

you're dealing with some really heavy

11:12

dark themes but you do so

11:14

in a way that is is

11:16

never despairing. saw some never to

11:18

have pretty and it's funny without

11:20

being flippant. So. How

11:23

do you train home in on that?

11:25

tone of a certain amount of detachment

11:27

but also not being to buzz a

11:29

about anything and. Really grateful for

11:32

that. character is a sin and

11:34

I think that I had been

11:36

kind of trying to write songs

11:38

that for speaking to more ideology

11:40

to hate values for many years.

11:42

I feel like it just took

11:44

some time in the cooker of

11:46

growing up. To. Be able to

11:49

articulate these things, I needed it

11:51

to feel totally fresh and any

11:53

time that something salt lake it

11:55

could have come from the internet.

11:58

And since I. Was. Discard

12:00

it? Yeah, because I just needed it

12:02

to feel. Totally fresh. I

12:04

feel like I had been trying

12:06

to articulate myself in a specific

12:09

way and music for a long

12:11

time and was just kind of

12:13

continually characterized as like confessional singer

12:15

songwriter and there's so much value

12:17

in that area, But it wasn't

12:20

what I was going for, and

12:22

so I wanted to be explicit,

12:24

and I wanted to be honest

12:26

and speaking from a place of

12:28

understanding where my own personal stakes

12:30

were in regards to these latter

12:33

themes. And then I wanted

12:35

it to be articulated in a way

12:37

where. It felt like I

12:39

was talking to someone I respected because

12:41

I did not want anyone to feel

12:43

condescended to. I think listening

12:46

to it is is very satisfying because there's

12:48

never censored like oh this, you should be

12:50

doing this. You know this is there's no,

12:52

there's no finger wagging. And

12:55

there's no not nihilism either.

12:57

Yeah, and and I think

12:59

it's very i'm getting legal

13:01

most of the soggy rowboats

13:03

It's very disturbed hear someone

13:05

kind of experience some of

13:07

the same weird dissonances and

13:09

in irreconcilable. Weirdness of

13:11

living in late capitalism

13:13

is this is very

13:16

emotionally a human decency.

13:18

Thank you thank you.

13:29

Mrs of we gotta damage Platinum Pro

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when. Of all

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what you get, travel press the thermostat on

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your part. Of the I said that

13:54

abetting for the method of synthesizing

13:56

in it is. Unending.

14:05

Bliss Yeah this might be another example

14:08

of what you saying over a song

14:10

that sort of grows and transforms like

14:12

literally the course of the song expands

14:15

it's semi hear it which I which

14:17

I learn. So. The first time

14:19

you hear it, I can't help it. I throw

14:21

stones like if I keep in motion I want.

14:32

And then the next and deserve the

14:34

ad alone. If

14:50

at the bottom of everything we are alone

14:52

than I want nothing but unbending bless and

14:54

in the third time the. Than

15:22

I was nothing but unending bliss for

15:24

my enemies. Was this? Plans to have

15:26

the song expand like this are? was

15:29

the something that just happened organically as

15:31

you are writing it? I

15:33

probably got. To. The.

15:36

Unending bus for my enemies

15:38

aspect. Pretty immediately say I

15:40

did not feel like the

15:42

song was ready for it

15:45

until the end. So

15:47

you kind of retrofitted that

15:49

structure yes, by subtracting things

15:51

yes and then adding them

15:53

in. Which. To me, it

15:56

felt kind of thematic li appropriate

15:58

because I won. They'd it

16:01

to feel like a

16:03

revelation to come to

16:05

a place of forgiveness.

16:08

Yeah. That is a

16:10

theme that is. Wound

16:12

oddly rare in in music I

16:14

think especially pop music which is

16:17

my beat is like so much

16:19

about like rejecting the haters him

16:21

yeah that's like such a common

16:23

theme so to hear you sing

16:25

at the close of the psi

16:27

i went unending bliss for my

16:29

enemies was was really of striking.

16:32

By do you want an ending the

16:34

second, it's kind of it. As an

16:36

adviser that's. I was trying

16:38

to for reform my

16:40

own concept of what

16:43

forgiveness is and I

16:45

wanted. I wanted

16:47

forgiveness to work for me.

16:49

I wanted forgiveness to free

16:52

me it's and to seal

16:54

me from. Anger.

16:57

And bitterness that was nothing

16:59

with my well being. And.

17:04

I. I. Do think. Everyone.

17:08

Lives or of and sounds like a

17:10

new no worries their aid I do

17:12

think that we are in a sara.

17:16

Vindictive moment in the

17:18

culture at large, but

17:20

also we are contrasted

17:22

and I don't mean

17:25

to try and elevate

17:27

my songs to this

17:29

level. But.

17:31

Contrast said with Lakes

17:33

In my lifetime, conversations

17:35

around say prison abolition

17:37

has become much more.

17:39

Mainstream. Than they were,

17:42

you know, and the beginning of my

17:44

lifetime. And so. I think

17:47

that. Having that as

17:49

kind of a core value

17:51

and trying to move from

17:53

a place as so much

17:55

hurt. Can. A

17:58

group handle. We

18:01

so. Continuing. A

18:04

cycle of harm and

18:06

degradation. And in

18:08

a personal way I just

18:10

started to think about how

18:13

the people who I felt

18:15

really pissed off that are

18:17

generally speaking. On my

18:19

team in the world. Some.

18:22

Of the core values I think or

18:24

similar, not similar enough to where I

18:27

want to ever be in the same

18:29

room with these people that kind of

18:31

trying to zoom out being like there's

18:33

no common ground where I'm sitting. How

18:35

far do I have to zoom out

18:38

before I can find enough com grounds

18:40

to a stop being so angry that

18:42

these people exist. Yeah.

18:45

There. There at some point someone will.

18:48

Pass this. Same. Version

18:50

of this and want nothing. An unending bus

18:52

for my enemies. If if anything is going

18:55

to be repaired and chains a someone does

18:57

have to allow that. To. To

18:59

happen Yes and salads I

19:01

think listen to the song

19:03

is is very very galvanizing.

19:07

I think that forgiveness has to

19:09

be. A tool. In.

19:13

Service. Of empowerment and

19:16

is you are permanently

19:18

harmed. By some saying

19:20

you are less powerful

19:23

and so. Forgiveness.

19:25

For me, and trying to learn

19:27

how to function and to be

19:29

more forgiving was part of my

19:32

own desire to be more resilience

19:34

and to have more agency and

19:36

my own life which is not

19:38

normally a house. Forgiveness is talked

19:40

about. It certainly talked about as

19:42

diminishing us to forgive because we

19:44

are such good people, we are

19:47

willing to be diminished and I

19:49

just wanted to find something that

19:51

wasn't that. Your departing.

19:54

For a tour tomorrow?

19:56

Yeah, has? what are

19:58

you looking. Forward to

20:00

in being able to share

20:03

these songs with audiences across

20:05

the country. After. Just stating

20:07

them here in your city of for so

20:09

long. I. Just

20:11

so excited to see what

20:14

people enjoy of this thread

20:16

through the the. Went on

20:19

a tour last November that

20:21

was just me and an

20:23

acoustic guitar and then. It.

20:26

Was very surreal. that song unending

20:29

bliss had come out lake two

20:31

days earlier and in New York

20:33

City people knew the word was

20:36

and this is a brand new

20:38

experience for me. I've been writing

20:40

songs and performing them in clubs

20:43

for. Like

20:45

a decade now and

20:47

so to sudden we

20:50

have people who had

20:52

clearly listened to the

20:55

music before. Was

20:57

quite a trip and the people

20:59

that I have ended up meeting

21:02

were showing up at the shows.

21:04

I have had some really really

21:06

nice interactions with as just felt

21:08

great about it and. I.

21:10

Love the band that I'm touring

21:13

with. I'm really excited to. Have

21:16

my. Bandmates. Potentially

21:18

have the experience of these really

21:20

nice people. Enjoying

21:22

their in a skill?

21:24

yeah. Since. Since

21:26

pretty good. Yeah, I

21:29

think it's been. A Really. Bad

21:32

on though. he never know. But I

21:34

think google yeah. Rosie. Tucker

21:36

think so much for joining us today.

21:38

No. Thank you so much for having

21:40

me and asking suspend missile tests and.

21:46

Or it as you heard, Rosie and

21:48

a Killer Band are on tour. At

21:50

the time of the release of this

21:52

episode, I think there few chances for

21:55

you to see them as you're in

21:57

Atlanta, Georgia, New Orleans? asked in Phoenix

21:59

or was. Angeles. Other that those

22:01

are the the remaining dates and

22:03

on the tour As of this

22:05

at this episode dropping ah if

22:07

you're in a layup of the

22:09

their come Say Hi Switched On

22:12

Pop is produced by Ran A

22:14

Cruise. It's hosted by Mean It's

22:16

Loan and Charlie Harding. Brendan Mcfarland

22:18

is our engineer or Chung is

22:20

our editor at Be Barred to

22:22

Squinty Management. Iris Gottlieb does or

22:24

Illustrations are executive producer it is

22:26

Michelle her were were production of

22:29

the Vox Media. Podcast Network and

22:31

New York Magazine's Vulture. You can

22:33

find more episodes on Switched On

22:36

pop.com anywhere you get parts as

22:38

you can talk to us on

22:40

social media. At Switched On is

22:43

Hop and will have renewed episode

22:45

coming up next week. Until then,

22:48

thanks for listening. Reserve.

22:57

We've got an Amex Platinum Pro on

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