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there anything you would want to tell her or anyone else?

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that you know, we are still making lots of

3:30

improvements to the app and the website. Lots of

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us over and over again. You know, one of the

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things we'd like to encourage you to do is

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to read more. I think

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it's important for all of us to

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become more educated and read more. So

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read the comments before you comment. Because

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You owe me. You

5:23

owe me for the hundreds of

5:25

true crime stories that I've told you over

5:28

the years. You

5:30

owe me for the many hours

5:33

of entertainment that I've graciously

5:35

given you. You

5:37

owe me for all the hard work I've put into this

5:39

show. You owe

5:42

me. And don't you

5:44

forget it. I'm

5:47

sorry. Did that sound

5:49

a little entitled? If

5:51

my sense of entitlement strikes you

5:53

as unflattering, that's

5:56

because it is. It's

5:59

quite ugly. A

6:01

sense of entitlement is a narcissistic

6:04

personality trait and

6:06

it's pretty obvious. Most

6:09

people don't like it when someone

6:11

insists that they deserve something when

6:14

in reality they don't deserve a damn

6:16

thing. I was

6:18

kidding by the way, you don't owe me anything. No

6:21

one owes anyone anything,

6:25

generally speaking. But

6:28

I can admit and acknowledge that

6:30

I do carry around a little

6:32

bit of entitlement.

6:36

Most of us do. But we

6:38

either consciously or subconsciously recognize

6:40

that it's an unflattering

6:42

characteristic. So

6:45

we work on it. We

6:47

try to suppress it or at the very least

6:49

we try to keep it in check. There

6:53

are some, however, that

6:56

have no problem letting

6:58

their extreme sense of entitlement

7:00

shine. If

7:02

you've ever watched any number of Karen videos

7:05

online then you know exactly what I'm talking

7:07

about. Some of

7:09

you may have even caught the Karen

7:11

bug. You know,

7:13

the ones perpetually complaining about

7:16

what they're not getting from a $10 or

7:18

optional podcast subscription in

7:21

the comment section of every

7:23

single episode. You

7:25

know who you are. Those

7:28

of us with a slightly more

7:30

acute sense of self-awareness wonder

7:34

what makes people act this way.

7:38

An extreme sense of entitlement can be

7:40

developed in a number of ways. One

7:44

of the most common ways usually relates to how

7:47

a person has been treated in the past.

7:50

When someone or a group

7:52

of people are routinely given what

7:54

they want, they

7:56

can develop the idea that their

7:58

wants are just... owed

8:00

to them. It's common

8:03

for children to have this mentality but they

8:05

usually grow out of it and

8:07

begin to understand that

8:09

life is about give and take.

8:13

They learn that in general if

8:15

you want something you

8:17

have to earn it. Unfortunately

8:20

not everyone develops

8:22

this understanding. Some

8:25

full-ass grown adults hold

8:28

firm to their sense of entitlement and

8:30

when things that were once handed to them are

8:33

suddenly taken away, well that's

8:36

when they lash out. They

8:39

get angry. They might

8:41

scream or yell. They

8:43

might get violent. In fact they

8:47

might even commit murder. On

9:13

the night of January 26, 2018 a middle-aged woman in

9:19

Rio Rancho, New Mexico was driving

9:21

home from work. Her

9:23

commute was one that she had made many

9:26

times before but on

9:28

this particular night she noticed

9:30

something unusual. While

9:32

driving along a somewhat well-traveled back

9:35

road she saw a smoldering

9:37

pile of, well,

9:39

something that was laid

9:42

out on the road in front of her. The

9:45

pile let off a

9:47

small cloud of black smoke and

9:50

its glowing orange umber suggested that whatever

9:53

she was looking at was

9:56

very recently on fire. I

10:00

could see it off to the side, but I couldn't see what it

10:02

was at all. When

10:05

you drove through, were you able to

10:07

drive around it or did you hit

10:09

it? I drove around it. No, I drove around

10:11

it. You drove around it? I couldn't see

10:13

anything because it was dark. My

10:16

headlights aren't very good, but I

10:18

wasn't going to get out of my car either. You

10:20

know, I'm not stupid. But so I

10:22

came home and we talked

10:25

about it for a while, and so

10:27

I went to bed, woke up at

10:30

about 10, 10-ish, and

10:33

said, I'm going to go up and take a look. The

10:37

woman drove home. She

10:39

told her roommates about what she saw, and then she

10:42

went to bed. The next

10:44

morning, she decided she wanted to take a

10:46

closer look at what she had seen the

10:48

night before. I went up there, and I

10:51

still didn't think it was real. And

10:54

it just did not look real to me. It

10:58

was horrible to look like it was. What's the

11:00

fact that she saw for me? I

11:02

could see the head. I could see

11:04

the two arms, the

11:07

face. It looks like

11:10

female. I can tell you that. Now

11:13

that the sun was up, the woman returned to

11:15

what she saw during her commute home, and

11:19

she couldn't believe what she'd

11:21

discovered. Lying

11:23

on a burned mattress was a

11:26

severely mangled and charred human

11:29

corpse. Actually, as I was

11:31

walking away, I could see the

11:33

restraints. The

11:35

restraints? Yeah. The person was bound

11:38

with metal, with wire or

11:40

something. The arm was broken. I

11:42

could see that. The mouth

11:44

looked round like

11:48

charming in the hole. The

11:51

right foot was missing. It

11:53

looked like it had been cut off from about here,

11:55

maybe even higher. It was

11:57

creepy. I Mean, there's no nice way to put it.

12:00

You know, The some first and lost

12:02

their lives. As or

12:04

whoever decided to dump it on

12:06

a road. This is more travels

12:08

you can download roms Group will

12:10

travel. Why?

12:14

Most people would not just dump a body

12:16

on a still troubled. Road. This

12:19

woman had a good question. Why

12:21

would someone dumped the body in a well

12:24

traveled rode. Along with

12:26

that question, the cops in Rio Rancho

12:28

were wondering a few other things to.

12:30

Note: Who. Was disturbed

12:32

person. How did they

12:34

die? And more importantly,

12:38

Who. Put them there. Meanwhile.

12:41

About twenty miles south, a concern

12:43

man in Albuquerque was making a

12:45

phone call to Nine One One.

12:47

Albuquerque Police operating true for six

12:49

months happening helping. Her

12:52

out about making up agreement

12:55

enough. To some persons

12:57

report garnered mistresses? How. Does

13:00

not appear in the notice. Your

13:03

food and someone over shoes. Yeah

13:05

just for yeah. Sixty

13:07

two year old Harry Gander

13:09

to lived in Albuquerque. And

13:12

for the last day or two, he'd been trying

13:14

to reach his sister, Marilyn. Who

13:16

he knew was pretty reliable when it

13:18

came to returning his phone calls. And

13:21

I'm sorry making any moment I'm. Sure

13:23

you have to come. Out

13:26

your sister's name, Marlon

13:29

Brando. Up

13:32

visiting her. Solution

13:34

into. Action.

13:39

Because you know who travels on.

13:43

My know, can I reflected. In School In

13:45

the Dark. World

13:48

Now. For.

13:54

A five for alpha for

13:56

days. Because

13:59

you. What

14:01

Were The Whole Foods? Are cash

14:03

to you? The ocean for this whole

14:05

issue? For my my mother. Was

14:09

just my time and again. Also, make contact with

14:11

you shortly. Sixty. Five

14:14

year old Maryland gander to work

14:16

for the Us Postal Service for

14:18

over thirty years. And. According

14:20

to her coworkers, she was very

14:22

dependable. A colleague. That

14:24

was a joy. To. Be

14:26

around. Where for Maryland was

14:28

as molasses tasked with the mess were

14:30

news is that he could ease to

14:33

see no things and get to this

14:35

season Sweat the small stuff. When.

14:37

Asked Harry described his sister as

14:39

a great person. In

14:42

fact, he told police that Marilyn

14:44

was a perfect sister. And

14:46

as she was always there for him. When. He

14:48

needed her. Harry

14:50

reported maryland missing, but unfortunately he

14:53

couldn't direct the Albuquerque police towards

14:55

many leads. Maryland

14:57

dander. lived alone and was

14:59

a solitary person. She.

15:02

Mostly kept to herself and didn't have a

15:04

lot of close friends. She.

15:06

Did, however. Have.

15:08

A best friend. Her. Name

15:11

was Nancy Robinson. Nancy

15:13

worked alongside Marilyn at the post office

15:15

for a long time and. Over

15:18

the years the two of them and

15:20

become quite close. You know,

15:22

Maryland? Get and

15:24

of the same sources. And.

15:27

Having such. A

15:31

lovely wire. Fence

15:33

outside of. Went

15:35

to say it again. Full.

15:37

Time with her new houses for

15:40

sale. Maryland's.

15:43

Husband passed away long before Marilyn.

15:45

what missing? Several. Years

15:48

later, tragedy struck again when

15:50

Marilyn lost her only child.

15:53

Maryland's. Forty two year old son. Ryan.

15:56

Beckett. Killed. Himself.

15:58

While. Playing Russian roulette. If

16:01

for some reason you're not familiar, Russian

16:03

Roulette is a deadly game

16:06

of chance, where a

16:08

person places one bullet in a revolver,

16:11

spins the cylinder, points

16:13

the muzzle at their head, and

16:16

pulls the trigger. You

16:18

basically have a one in

16:20

six chance of

16:22

killing yourself. In

16:25

case this isn't obvious, people usually

16:27

don't play this game unless they're severely

16:30

suicidal. In

16:32

Ryan's case, he was both

16:34

severely suicidal and extremely unlucky.

16:37

How do you? Ryan's death effect,

16:39

ma'am. She was heartbroken,

16:42

of course. Her

16:44

only child. She had,

16:48

you know, like most

16:50

mothers, she cremated

16:52

remains that she wore around her neck. She

16:55

paid extra money to bring

16:58

the report to her house. She had all

17:00

the pictures. She would

17:02

wake up every morning at a certain time

17:04

when he lost his life. It

17:06

was a big deal. As

17:09

expected, the death of her

17:11

son was devastating for Marilyn.

17:15

But the silver lining was that she

17:17

still had her daughter-in-law and

17:19

Ryan's wife. Ryan's

17:22

wife was 43-year-old Alyssa

17:24

Bicket, and Marilyn also

17:26

had a grandchild and

17:28

Ryan's son. He

17:30

was 20-year-old Drake Bicket.

17:33

Marilyn had a big heart. Her

17:37

interaction with Drake, what I would

17:39

say was she was trying to

17:42

be grandmotherly with him. Same

17:45

thing with Alyssa. She was dead. I

17:47

was asked her daughter. She

17:49

treated herself like her

17:52

daughter. Much like Harry Gander, when

17:54

Marilyn went missing, Nancy was quick

17:56

to notice that Marilyn wasn't

17:58

responding to phone calls or anything. text

18:01

messages, which was

18:03

quite out of character. And

18:05

so when did you start becoming concerned?

18:09

Honestly, I started getting a real bad

18:11

vibe on Thursday night. I

18:13

called her and then I called her later. I couldn't

18:15

get a hold of her. And

18:17

the feeling got worse and worse. And

18:20

you would text. When you text Marilyn or

18:23

call Marilyn, you get pretty much an immediate response.

18:27

I called her on Saturday and said, did you go back

18:29

to work? I haven't heard from you. I'm

18:32

concerned, et cetera, et cetera. And

18:34

then by the time Sunday morning came

18:36

and I woke up, six or

18:39

seven o'clock, I left the house

18:41

in my pajamas, in my robe,

18:43

and said, Marilyn, I'm coming

18:45

for you because you just knew something was

18:47

wrong. After Marilyn

18:50

was reported missing, the

18:52

first place that police went looking was Marilyn's

18:55

home. The responding officers

18:57

discovered that Marilyn's back door was

18:59

left wide open. So

19:02

they went inside, but there

19:04

was no sign of Marilyn. The

19:06

house seemed undisturbed, but

19:09

the police did notice something

19:11

strange. Marilyn's house

19:14

keys were left hanging on

19:16

her front door knob. Who

19:18

leaves their house without their

19:20

keys? The responding

19:22

officers knew something was

19:25

wrong. So they decided

19:27

to visit another house that Marilyn owned.

19:30

It was a neighboring property that

19:32

Marilyn had been renting out to

19:34

her daughter-in-law, Alyssa. When

19:38

police arrived at this second house, they spoke

19:40

to Alyssa, who was in the process of

19:42

moving out and was

19:44

half expecting Marilyn to

19:46

pop on by. I expected her to come

19:48

by, but I didn't think anything of it. I

19:50

thought, you know, she probably did.

19:53

Sometimes she gets mad and lonely with us today. Marilyn's

19:57

brother, her best friend, and... and

20:00

her daughter-in-law were almost always in

20:02

regular contact with Marilyn. But

20:05

the three of them told police that they

20:07

didn't know where Marilyn was. She

20:10

had seemingly just vanished.

20:14

Meanwhile back in Rio Rancho, a middle-aged

20:17

woman discovered a mangled and

20:19

smoldering corpse on a back road.

20:22

After she told roommates about what she found,

20:25

one of those roommates called 911. Vanderbilt

20:29

County 911, what is the exact location of

20:31

your emergency? Out

20:35

here in Cino and Northern, we

20:38

think we found a body out here. It's

20:41

in a road and somebody had put it

20:43

on like a mattress or something and burned

20:46

it. And

20:48

so it's a mattress with something

20:50

burned on the top of it? Yeah, and

20:52

it looks like it has bones in

20:54

it and you can see intestines and

20:57

guts and... I

20:59

don't know, and it looks like it has a head and

21:01

hands and arms and I don't know. Okay,

21:04

and are you going to be around for

21:06

officers? Why can't I? I

21:08

can walk back up there. After

21:11

the police arrived on the scene,

21:13

they quickly confirmed there was

21:15

indeed a charred human corpse

21:18

lying on a road in Rio Rancho.

21:22

After which, they promptly questioned

21:24

the people that reported it. When

21:27

you got there, what did you... There was

21:29

smoke. You could tell something had been

21:31

burning and I was like, what was that? And he goes, I

21:34

think it's a body. Okay,

21:36

did you walk up to...

21:38

that you saw burning? Yeah, we

21:40

were parked for... you

21:42

could go around it, like, but we

21:45

didn't go around it. We just backed up and we left here.

21:48

And we were there for maybe three minutes at that. Oh

21:51

really? Well, because we both felt really creeped

21:53

out, like someone was watching us. Okay. Well,

21:55

really feel like something... Needless

21:58

to say, finding a dead body. The body

22:00

is a terrible experience for anyone to have,

22:02

but in this particular

22:04

case, and because of the

22:07

horrific state of the body, it

22:10

was especially traumatic for everyone that

22:13

happened to witness it. Tell me

22:15

again what you observed. A

22:17

bad thing. Bad

22:20

thing. It was really bad. I

22:22

know man, but it's important for me to understand

22:24

what you saw. Right.

22:27

That person suffered right then. He

22:30

suffered bad. What

22:33

makes you think it's a person? I

22:35

don't know. I could tell if there was a

22:37

shoe wound like sticking out and

22:40

there was intestines hanging outside. It

22:43

was bad. It was

22:45

the worst thing I ever saw in my life. I'm

22:47

sorry. I'm sorry you saw it. I told the victim who

22:49

I said, man, you got to see what this is. I

22:51

don't know how you do that. I

22:54

mean, tomorrow we're putting a cross up there because

22:56

it... That's

22:59

so hesser, actually. It's not. Right. I

23:02

understand. Within

23:04

a day, the news of this dead body

23:07

reached the Albuquerque area and

23:10

the detectives that were searching for

23:12

Marilyn. Soon

23:14

after, the body was identified through

23:17

dental records and confirmed to be

23:19

65-year-old postal worker Marilyn

23:22

Gandert. Following

23:25

that revelation, Albuquerque

23:28

homicide detectives went

23:30

to work and they

23:32

expected to find out who had

23:34

brutally murdered this poor woman

23:37

who had dumped the body, who

23:40

had burned it, and

23:42

why. They

23:53

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24:00

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26:53

January of 2018, the

26:55

mangled and smoldering corpse

26:57

of 65-year-old postal worker

26:59

Marilyn Gandert was

27:01

found on a back road in Rio

27:03

Rancho, New Mexico. After

27:06

the body was collected and an autopsy

27:08

was performed, the medical

27:10

examiner and homicide detectives were

27:12

able to determine what

27:15

likely happened to Marilyn. Someone

27:19

had brutally beaten and stabbed

27:21

her to death. After

27:24

she was dead, the killer or

27:26

someone else drove the body to

27:29

Rio Rancho, dropped a

27:31

mattress on the road and put Marilyn on

27:33

top of it. Then

27:36

they doused her in gasoline

27:38

and lit the body on fire

27:41

before driving away. The

27:43

medical examiner also determined that there

27:46

were no signs of sexual trauma

27:48

to Marilyn's body, but

27:50

there were ligature marks on her wrists

27:52

and ankles. So

27:54

Marilyn was likely bound

27:57

either before or

27:59

during. the murder. When

28:02

detectives began investigating this homicide, one of

28:04

the first things they tried to figure

28:07

out was where the

28:09

murder happened. They examined

28:11

Marilyn's house but didn't find

28:14

any signs of a struggle

28:16

or any significant traces of blood.

28:19

They quickly determined that the murder

28:21

probably didn't happen at Marilyn's

28:24

home. Then they

28:26

set their eyes on another property that

28:28

Marilyn owed. It

28:30

was a neighboring house that Marilyn had

28:33

been renting out to her daughter-in-law, Alyssa

28:35

Bickett, who happened to be

28:38

in the process of moving out when

28:40

Marilyn was first reported missing. 43-year-old

28:58

Alyssa Bickett wasn't overly

29:28

thrilled that a bunch of cops were

29:30

about to be invading her home and

29:32

rifling through all her stuff. But

29:35

given that she had no other options, she

29:38

relented and a search

29:40

warrant was executed on her home. After

29:44

that was being done, Alyssa was informed

29:46

that Marilyn's body had

29:48

been found and Alyssa

29:50

was taken to the local police station

29:52

for questioning. Marilyn

29:58

died. I didn't know she died. Okay,

30:00

so you said that you had heard she was

30:03

dead. Yes. Okay, how did

30:05

you hear that? Um, one of the detectives told me. So

30:07

it is true that Marilyn is

30:09

deceased. Okay, how do you know

30:12

Marilyn? She's my mother-in-law. Mother-in-law, okay. I

30:14

don't know how to say it. It was

30:16

my husband that he passed away. It's her,

30:18

it's still his mom. Okay, and when

30:20

he passed away, you were still married, didn't you? Yes.

30:23

Okay, do you and her son, what's her son's name? Ryan.

30:27

Ryan. How long were you and Ryan married these four? Twenty-three

30:29

years. Twenty-three years. And how did he pass away? He shut

30:31

himself right in front of me. Okay, I'm sorry to hear

30:33

that. How long ago was that? August

30:35

of 2014. Again,

30:40

this wasn't the first horrific

30:42

tragedy that had struck this

30:44

family. Back

30:46

in 2014, Alyssa's husband and Marilyn's

30:49

son, Ryan Bickett, killed

30:51

himself while playing Russian roulette. According

30:55

to Alyssa, that suicide

30:57

happened right in front of her. How

31:00

was your relationship with Marilyn prior

31:02

to that, before Ryan committed suicide? It

31:04

was okay. Okay, and you were married

31:06

23 years? Wow, okay.

31:09

And your relationship was okay with

31:11

Marilyn? Yeah. Okay.

31:14

And since Ryan has passed away, how was

31:16

your relationship with Marilyn? It was okay. I

31:18

just really didn't talk to her very much.

31:21

After the death? Mm-hmm. Okay.

31:24

And you had hard feelings, I guess you could

31:26

say, about the homicide. She was not me. She

31:28

was not you. How come? Sometimes she said I should

31:31

have left him because he was very abusive. Oh.

31:35

Yeah, he might not have killed himself. So

31:37

maybe a little finger-pointing at the moment. Yeah.

31:40

Alyssa claimed that Marilyn had some

31:43

resentment towards her. And

31:45

Marilyn seemed to believe that if Alyssa

31:47

wasn't in Ryan's life, Ryan

31:50

wouldn't have killed himself. Like

31:53

this, Marilyn allowed Alyssa to

31:56

remain living in the same house that

31:58

she and Ryan shared. which

32:00

was owned by Marilyn. The

32:04

only condition that Marilyn had was

32:07

a reasonable one. She

32:09

expected that Alyssa pay

32:11

rent. Unfortunately, Alyssa

32:13

didn't live up to her end of

32:15

the deal, so Marilyn

32:17

began the process of

32:19

evicting Alyssa. When

32:22

Marilyn was first reported missing and

32:24

responding officers went to the house

32:26

that Alyssa was renting, Alyssa didn't

32:28

mention anything about being evicted. She

32:32

only told him that she was moving out. For

32:35

detectives, that was kind

32:37

of a big red flag. I didn't work

32:39

for six years when he was alive. He didn't let

32:42

me work, so he didn't really go to

32:44

a job originally, but sometimes, you know,

32:47

I wouldn't have a job at some time, so. Right

32:50

now, so it was when I tried to

32:52

talk to her, and she kind of worked with

32:54

me, and she said she was going to evict

32:56

me, and I said, okay, you know, whatever. Okay,

32:58

who lived at the 47-15 together with you? It

33:01

was Annie Raell. Alyssa

33:04

shared the house she was renting with

33:06

two people, her 20-year-old son

33:09

Drake and her close friend, 28-year-old Annie Raell.

33:14

So how did you end up meeting

33:16

Alyssa? A little bit of hours. How

33:18

long ago was that? We've been like, it's

33:20

been over a year, but we're probably over a year probably.

33:23

And then how did you end up moving in with her?

33:29

I went to the divorce, and she

33:32

was unhappy, and she kind of offered

33:35

a night accepted. Alyssa

33:38

and Annie met in 2017 and became friends. Before

33:43

long, Alyssa offered to let Annie live with

33:45

her in the house she was

33:47

renting. While there, Annie

33:50

met and occasionally interacted with

33:52

Marilyn Gandert. Well

34:00

then, um, I have been

34:02

like, food, like they did get

34:04

wrong. Okay. You

34:06

know, um, I have seen them get wrong. According

34:10

to Annie, the relationship between

34:12

Alyssa and Marilyn was on

34:15

occasion cordial. But

34:17

on other occasions, it was

34:19

clear that the relationship was breaking down.

34:23

Mostly because Alyssa wasn't paying rent.

34:26

And because, you know, she wasn't even taking

34:28

good care of the house anyway.

34:31

Well, it seems like Marilyn and Alyssa are having

34:33

a dispute over the conditions of the house, maybe

34:35

some payments. She's not really getting along about stuff.

34:37

Right. Okay. But

34:40

I went out there while she was getting ready

34:42

to leave and just talked to her and was

34:45

like, Alyssa's trying. She's,

34:48

she's a good girl. Like she does

34:50

try and she, I don't know, I

34:52

was just trying to make a piece. It

34:54

went really well. But I

34:56

guess you didn't know who that, that I was at.

34:59

She didn't know it was me. Did she know that

35:01

you were staying there? No. While

35:03

speaking with detectives, Alyssa

35:06

and Annie seemed to downplay the issues

35:08

that Marilyn was having with Alyssa in

35:10

the house. But

35:12

according to Marilyn's best friend, Nancy,

35:15

Marilyn was at her wit's end.

35:18

She had just had Alyssa. She loved Alyssa. Over

35:22

the years, she did everything she possibly could for

35:24

Alyssa. And it

35:27

was actually Alyssa who was

35:29

angry with Marilyn. Marilyn

35:33

supported them entirely for many years

35:35

as opposed to her own. And

35:39

then after Ryan died, there was

35:41

a period of time where

35:44

she wanted the

35:47

whole situation to change. And so, it

35:49

was a period of time that Alyssa could begin to

35:51

pare some rent, that

35:53

kids could work, something

35:55

could happen so that they could still live there and

35:58

she wouldn't have to be able to live there. to

36:00

support them entirely. Again,

36:03

Marilyn's expectations were

36:05

entirely reasonable. If

36:08

Alyssa was going to live in

36:11

Marilyn's house, she

36:13

would have to pay rent. But

36:15

apparently Alyssa just didn't

36:17

like that arrangement. Alyssa's

36:19

response was that to, oh, okay,

36:23

now because Ryan's not here, you're not going to

36:25

take care of us anymore. She said, yeah,

36:27

I can. You know? You

36:29

have to have some income. You have to help me here.

36:31

I want to retire. So she attempted

36:34

to make that work with them. And

36:36

Alyssa was very unhappy

36:39

with the fact that she was now going to

36:41

have to pay some rent.

36:44

She'd tell me about the bits and pieces of

36:46

money that would come in, and it never came

36:48

in like it was supposed to. And

36:51

there were promises. And

36:54

her objections, Alyssa did

36:56

agree to pay rent. But

36:59

she never actually lived up to the

37:01

promise to do so. On

37:04

top of that, Alyssa did a pretty poor

37:06

job of taking care of the house. Alyssa

37:10

I was there. It looked as if somebody got

37:13

angry. It wasn't, yeah,

37:15

or drunk. It was my impression. Drunk,

37:17

angry, whatever. And just rushed it. You know, people

37:19

did stuff like that. They put

37:21

their fish through the wall. They

37:25

bring things. And it

37:27

didn't look like it had been basically kept

37:29

up anyway. Finally

37:31

after giving Alyssa several opportunities to

37:34

turn things around, Marilyn

37:36

decided that Alyssa had

37:38

run out of chances and began

37:40

the process of having Alyssa evicted.

37:44

Marilyn's long-term plan was to eventually

37:47

sell the house. She had

37:49

resigned herself. She was done with

37:52

the whole thing. Tired of putting

37:54

that emotion out there. Tired of putting

37:57

the bill. She was done. to

38:00

sell this house because she

38:02

wanted to retire. We were caught at

38:04

the post office. So she

38:07

was just kind of had been done

38:09

with it. After hearing

38:11

about the drama and conflict between Alyssa

38:13

and Marilyn, Albuquerque homicide

38:15

detectives felt like they had a

38:18

plausible motive for murder. So

38:22

they questioned Alyssa about the eviction.

38:25

So am I correct by saying that

38:27

eventually you did murder or evicted? Yes.

38:31

How did that come about? Because we

38:33

were paying. And I didn't

38:35

go to court because I knew. I

38:38

didn't want to argue. There was nothing to argue about. Did she

38:40

actually take you to court like violating court? Oh,

38:42

OK. And you did show up. I didn't show

38:44

up because I knew. What if I were to

38:46

argue? I mean, what if I didn't go to

38:48

pay? I know I'm not paying rent. Right. So

38:50

let it go away. But

38:54

I did ask her, maybe we can

38:56

work this out still. No,

38:58

I said, OK. How did

39:00

you feel about her evicting you? I

39:02

was a little upset. But then I came to

39:05

terms with it. I was like, my husband died

39:07

here. My son doesn't get it. He's not good

39:09

friend. He's not good for his mental. So

39:12

but it's not like I don't hate

39:14

her. I just, you know, I don't.

39:16

I've never thought of her. Yeah. I

39:19

mean, none of us would. We were just like, let's

39:21

go. According

39:23

to Alyssa, the eviction process was

39:25

as cordial as it could possibly

39:28

be. And Alyssa's

39:30

friend Annie echoed that

39:32

claim. Alyssa got to

39:34

her that we're just, we

39:36

are trying to get out. We're not

39:38

trying to be in a brawl. We're

39:40

not trying to destroy her house. We

39:44

want to leave in peace under terms.

39:46

Was your understanding that those terms

39:49

were starting to happen? Like, OK.

39:51

Yeah. Alyssa and

39:53

Annie admitted that they weren't happy

39:55

about being evicted, but they

39:57

claim that they accepted it. were

40:00

willing to just move on. So

40:02

they began the process of moving out,

40:05

but that process wasn't

40:07

easy because Marilyn changed

40:09

the locks on the doors. How

40:12

are you guys now getting back into the house?

40:14

Marilyn was coming to need us next. Oh, okay,

40:16

so you have a key? Yeah. Okay,

40:19

I still have some in there. Okay, so the locks are

40:21

changed, Marilyn has the key. Yeah. And then when you

40:23

guys are packing your stuff, Marilyn comes in. Yeah, she'll

40:25

come in here, come inside. Yeah,

40:27

everything was going okay. Yeah, okay. The

40:31

court filings and eviction notice granted Alyssa

40:34

three days to move her things out

40:36

of the house. Out

40:38

of the concern that the house might be

40:40

further damaged, Marilyn decided that

40:43

Alyssa could only move her stuff out

40:45

while Marilyn was there. She

40:48

wanted to oversee what was going on, so they

40:50

wouldn't cause a bunch of damage to

40:53

this house that she needed to sell

40:55

eventually. So she

40:57

decided to take off work so

40:59

that she could watch everything and make

41:01

sure the move out process was going

41:03

well. Yet,

41:07

according to Alyssa, Marilyn

41:10

eventually decided that she didn't need to

41:12

keep an eye on things for some

41:14

reason. And so Marilyn,

41:16

you were getting along and she

41:18

was like, I'm waiting for that

41:20

night, but I'm

41:23

not going to do this Saturday. But

41:25

like I said, I'm going to

41:27

take a weekend. I

41:32

want you to take only six weeks while I'm

41:35

going to let you guys sustain you. Not to

41:37

melt it. I want

41:39

to relax you guys. Go ahead and

41:41

just get going. So the

41:43

conversation you had on Friday? I tried, yeah. Okay.

41:47

Alyssa claimed that on the day before

41:49

Marilyn was reported missing, Marilyn

41:51

gave her the new house keys

41:54

so that Alyssa could finish moving out. I'm

41:57

not sure why anyone in their right mind would

41:59

give a- someone that they are actually in the

42:01

process of evicting a set

42:03

of the new house keys

42:05

to the new locks they've just installed.

42:09

It kind of makes no

42:11

sense whatsoever, but I'm

42:14

sure you knew that already. Alyssa

42:17

even had a text exchange with Marilyn

42:20

to show detectives and

42:22

back up this claim. But

42:24

again, Marilyn's friend Nancy contradicted

42:27

what Alyssa told the police.

42:30

When Nancy was shown the text messages between

42:32

Alyssa and Marilyn, she

42:34

knew it didn't make any sense. Come

42:37

get the key on Friday. That

42:40

is so not Marilyn. That's somebody texting for

42:42

Marilyn's phone. Needless

42:44

to say, the story that Alyssa

42:46

told police was pretty suspicious. Why

42:49

would Marilyn go through all the trouble

42:51

of filing court paperwork, changing the locks,

42:53

taking time off of work, and

42:56

then just allow Alyssa to have free access to

42:58

the house? It made zero

43:01

sense. And because of

43:03

that, the homicide detectives began to push

43:06

back on Alyssa's story. Marilyn

43:09

didn't allow you guys in the

43:11

house without her presence. At the

43:13

beginning, yes. And it was because

43:15

she thought we were going to damage the house. Okay.

43:19

So it's just kind of odd to me that all of

43:21

a sudden she would have a seat on the weekend and

43:23

that she would go in. Well, I don't know. Now all

43:25

of a sudden you have the keys. Yes, because she gave

43:27

it to me. Not according to the friends that we spoke

43:29

to, not according to Harry, they

43:31

all stated that

43:36

she was not going to allow you guys

43:38

in that home without her presence. She

43:40

described and said that she would. Naturally

43:44

Alyssa maintained that Marilyn had given her

43:46

the house keys and permission to go

43:48

into the house without being supervised. Unfortunately

43:52

for her, as

43:54

detectives began asking for details about

43:56

how Alyssa got those house keys,

43:59

her st- story started

44:01

to Bullshit

44:04

breakdown About

44:30

time this morning. I'm gonna pick up the key Alyssa

44:33

claimed that the last time she saw

44:35

Marilyn was on Saturday morning when Marilyn

44:38

gave her the house keys But

44:41

police knew that couldn't be because

44:45

by Saturday morning Marilyn was already

44:47

dead The

44:49

woman who saw Marilyn's body on the back

44:51

road in Rio Rancho had spotted it on

44:53

Friday night during

44:55

her commute home Alyssa

44:58

Bickett was either lying or she'd

45:00

gotten her days mixed up Of

45:03

course, she claimed the latter when

45:06

her impossible story was pointed out to

45:08

her And

45:27

I mean it's just because I can't think right now

45:29

and it's not fair I probably will say things

45:31

that I don't remember, you know, okay, and

45:34

I I know Friday was the

45:36

last time I did see her but I've seen her

45:38

in that row But I think I was just in

45:41

my head slowly making up that I saw her that

45:43

morning Okay, because I did see her Friday and that

45:45

was the last time I saw her Alyssa

45:49

Changed her story Now

45:51

the last time she saw Marilyn was

45:53

on Friday not Saturday Okay,

45:57

fair enough being questioned by

45:59

the police about the death of

46:01

a family member is a high-stress

46:03

situation. It's entirely

46:05

possible that Alyssa confused Friday for

46:08

Saturday, but there

46:11

was something else that Alyssa could

46:13

not explain, namely

46:15

the large amount of blood

46:18

the cops found in

46:20

her house. Would there be

46:22

any reason that we will find

46:26

Marilyn's blood in Annie's room? There

46:30

would be no reason. I don't know. Is

46:32

there going to be any reason if we

46:34

pull that carpet up in that house? There's

46:36

going to be any of Marilyn's blood on

46:39

the carpet. I don't know. That

46:41

should just be a yes or no answer. That's

46:43

not a yes. Well, there shouldn't be any. Okay.

46:45

Well, there is. Okay. So you're the

46:47

renter in the home, you were the last

46:50

person in the home, so that needs to

46:52

be explained. I don't know. Why is there

46:54

blood on the walls of that house, in

46:57

the carpet, and in Annie's room? I don't

46:59

know. You have

47:01

no answer. Doesn't that seem a little suspicious?

47:04

Well, I don't know. I haven't done anything.

47:06

Well, I haven't done anything. I don't know

47:09

of anybody doing anything, so we haven't

47:11

done anything to her. But we have

47:13

no blood in the hallway. You guys didn't

47:15

do a very good job on the walls because there's

47:18

still blood that are on the walls. Okay. Very small,

47:20

but she didn't do a very good job because we

47:22

were able to locate it. Eventually,

47:25

the detectives made things

47:27

very clear for Alyssa. They

47:30

were trying to solve a murder case. It

47:33

was a murder that almost certainly happened

47:35

in the home where Alyssa was living,

47:38

and they knew that Alyssa was

47:41

lying to them. So you told

47:44

Detective Brown that the

47:46

last time you saw her was

47:48

on Saturday morning? I

47:51

lied because I wanted to hear that

47:53

money, and I didn't do it. No,

47:55

you're lying now because you know that we

47:57

cost you in a lie. But

47:59

I didn't. I did nothing to her.

48:02

Maybe you didn't, but you didn't do it? No, I

48:04

don't. Well, she's deceased. I'm

48:06

sorry. Okay. How are your

48:08

kids going to feel when you were a child or a father

48:10

or a grandmother? Well, they made me happy. But

48:12

I didn't do it, so I don't know if I was a kid. Okay.

48:15

Well, they didn't even do it. I don't know.

48:18

It was in the residence. It was in the

48:20

residence. Not about that. You

48:22

had... We were together. None

48:24

of us did it. So... I'm not in the...

48:27

I'm not talking anymore. And I used to have that ring. You

48:29

do know that. So I would get

48:31

an attorney. After

48:33

Alyssa was confronted with her lies

48:35

and the blood in her house,

48:38

she asked for a lawyer, which

48:41

effectively shut down this interview. But

48:44

the cops weren't done asking

48:46

questions. Next,

48:48

they turned to Alyssa's son, Drake,

48:51

who, having recently been evicted from

48:53

his mom's home, was now

48:55

living in a days-end hotel room

48:58

with his girlfriend. Detectives

49:01

met with Drake at the hotel and asked

49:03

him about the last time he saw his

49:05

grandmother. Drake explained

49:07

that he last saw Marilyn the

49:10

day before she was reported missing. And

49:13

when he saw her, she was parked outside

49:15

his house, as Annie and Alyssa

49:17

were busy moving things out of the home. Annie and my

49:19

mom and my grandma were there. And I was like, what?

49:21

And my grandma was there. And I just showed up with

49:23

Nicki. In the afternoon. I don't know exactly what time. I'd

49:25

say 1 p.m. And

49:28

I was like, okay. Well, then I'll go there. And then we drove

49:30

there. And then I go in to help it. And

49:33

I was like, oh, why? Because we don't have money for the state. okay,

49:36

I'll go to the doctor. And then we drove there. According

50:00

to Drake, after he helped his

50:02

mom and Annie move a

50:05

few things out, he left.

50:27

As he was leaving, he saw that Marilyn

50:29

was still parked outside the

50:31

house. As

50:57

far as Drake

50:59

knew when he left

51:02

the house that day, his

51:04

mom, his grandma, and

51:06

Annie were

51:26

still there, and everyone

51:28

was still alive and breathing. Sadly,

51:32

detectives had some bad news for

51:34

Drake. How

51:57

did I meet you, Drake? Thank you, After

52:28

Drake was made aware of the situation, detectives

52:31

further explained that Alyssa's story

52:33

just wasn't adding up. In

52:36

other words, it was looking like Drake's

52:38

mom had something to do

52:41

with the murder. Alyssa

52:43

was asking when they came

52:45

back, was there

52:47

anything that was awkward that you

52:50

noticed? According

53:12

to Drake, when he met

53:14

back up with his mom and auntie, he

53:17

didn't notice anything strange or

53:19

suspicious. To him,

53:21

aside from the fact that they had all just

53:23

been evicted from their house and

53:26

essentially had nowhere to live, everything

53:30

seemed fine. Essentially

53:32

Drake was either unwilling or unable to

53:35

give the police any new information, but

53:38

this wasn't the last time that Drake

53:40

would speak to cops. During

53:43

the second interview with the

53:45

detective, Drake made a

53:47

startling admission. Do

54:00

you remember when she told you that? She

54:03

told me like a couple

54:05

days several days as I stayed with her.

54:08

I was there and she would be like depressed

54:12

You know So you're saying that

54:14

at some point your grandma asked you to kill

54:17

her? Like she was like, yeah, I get real

54:19

tired at night and like

54:21

I'm I Want

54:23

to die, you know At

54:28

this point detectives were Extremely

54:30

confident in their theory that Alyssa

54:32

and Annie were involved in murdering

54:35

Marilyn Gander But

54:37

now Alyssa's 20 year old son

54:39

Drake was taking sole responsibility

54:42

for it Perhaps he

54:45

was just trying to protect his mom from

54:47

being charged with murder No

54:49

noble After Drake

54:51

made this admission He

54:54

was arrested but Investigation

54:57

didn't stop there the

55:00

detectives remained determined to

55:03

find out the truth and eventually

55:06

That truth came out It

55:09

turned out that it wasn't just

55:11

Alyssa that killed Marilyn and

55:13

burned her body It

55:16

wasn't just Annie or Drake

55:18

either Marilyn

55:21

Gander was murdered

55:23

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June of 2018, 20-year-old

57:17

Drake Bickett confessed to

57:19

Albuquerque homicide detectives that

57:21

he brutally murdered

57:24

his own grandmother, 65-year-old

57:26

Marilyn Gandert. According

57:29

to Drake, his grandmother

57:31

asked him to kill her, and

57:34

he graciously carried out her wishes, just

57:37

like any decent grandson would. So

57:40

that's just like respect, because I can understand. I

57:42

don't know if you guys can understand, but I

57:45

expect you guys to be able to understand. If

57:47

an old woman is old

57:50

and having to work for her

57:52

children, right, then

57:54

I'll do what she wants, you know? So

57:57

how did you do it? essentially,

58:00

that's it. That's all the information without

58:02

a lawyer or a public defender I'd

58:05

like to share. Okay, so you don't

58:07

want to talk anymore after that? Mm-hmm.

58:09

Okay. After

58:11

Drake gave his confession, he was carted

58:14

off to jail and did

58:16

the standard purple walk. This

58:18

gave the local media an opportunity to

58:21

put a camera and microphone in

58:23

his face. Did you have anything to do

58:25

with her death? Oh, yes, she asked me to kill

58:28

her so I did. She asked you to kill her? Yeah. How

58:30

did you do it? I'm not

58:32

gonna... I don't know. You don't know how you killed

58:34

her? But she mentioned that she was

58:36

old, tired, so... So she wanted you to kill her.

58:38

Did you burn her body? No, I have no idea

58:40

about that. You don't know how she ended up burned?

58:42

No. Is there anything you would want to tell her

58:44

or anyone else? No. Okay. Drake

58:48

told the police and the media that

58:50

he murdered his grandmother, but

58:53

he was unwilling to provide any details

58:55

about how he did it or

58:57

how her body ended up being burned

59:00

on a back road in Rio Rancho. Needless

59:04

to say, the police knew

59:06

that there was a lot more to this

59:08

story. In fact, they

59:11

didn't buy Drake's claim that Marilyn wanted

59:13

to be killed. They

59:16

believed that Drake's mom, Alyssa Bickett,

59:18

and her friend, Annie

59:20

Rael, were responsible

59:23

for the murder. When Alyssa

59:25

was questioned and the detectives pointed

59:27

out inconsistencies in her story, she

59:30

promptly asked for an attorney, and

59:33

her interview came to an end.

59:37

Annie, on the other hand, did

59:39

a lot more talking. I

59:41

feel like you guys are going to speak to me

59:43

so we did something to Marilyn. Yes,

59:46

we are investigating a homicide. I knew that.

59:48

Yeah. Okay. And I just moved my

59:50

mind. Marilyn was murdered, but

59:52

not enough. We know that. Okay. Evidence

59:54

has been collected. A

59:57

lot of it is pointing towards you.

1:00:00

and Alyssa. So

1:00:03

you have one opportunity to give a society

1:00:05

your side of the source. I

1:00:08

am telling you we

1:00:10

didn't do anything. I am telling

1:00:13

you that. Okay. One

1:00:15

of the main issues with Alyssa and

1:00:17

Annie's denials was that Marilyn did

1:00:20

not give them permission to enter the

1:00:22

house they were being evicted from unless

1:00:24

Marilyn was there. Yet

1:00:27

Alyssa had the keys to the

1:00:29

house when the cops first questioned

1:00:31

her. She was there

1:00:34

alone without Marilyn. Alyssa

1:00:59

said she got the keys. She said she's

1:01:01

not really going to get blocked. She talked

1:01:03

to Marilyn. She said she, Marilyn, is giving

1:01:06

us work time. What

1:01:09

I was told and I don't tell you

1:01:11

that, I'm sure. You don't

1:01:14

think it's important? No. All that's important

1:01:16

is that we need to get their

1:01:18

stuff out and clean the

1:01:20

house. That's what's important to me. The

1:01:24

cops knew or at least strongly suspected

1:01:26

that Annie was lying and perhaps

1:01:29

the most telling thing about her interview

1:01:31

was that she clearly wasn't

1:01:33

taking the situation seriously.

1:01:36

Don't talk to me. Don't talk to me. I'm

1:01:38

getting very bad. I'm getting upset that you expect

1:01:40

me not to lie to you because you're going

1:01:42

to put over there and lie

1:01:44

to me. I

1:01:50

don't appreciate that you feel that way

1:01:52

because I'm explaining to you my situation.

1:01:54

I don't know what to say. Annie

1:02:00

feigned confidence, but

1:02:02

the confidence was slowly

1:02:05

broken down as detectives

1:02:07

started introducing

1:02:29

physical evidence into the conversation.

1:02:32

Annie owned and drove a large pickup truck,

1:02:35

which was perfect for

1:02:37

transporting a dead body from

1:02:39

Albuquerque to Rio Rancho. As

1:02:42

coincidence would have it, surveillance

1:02:44

cameras captured Annie's truck driving

1:02:46

through Rio Rancho around the

1:02:48

same time that Marilyn's

1:02:51

body would have been dumped there.

1:02:53

In the top row, because you have

1:02:56

a nice truck, they literally told me

1:02:58

to do a truck, so why,

1:03:00

well, but you can go up road

1:03:02

out there and there's trails and there's roads and there's

1:03:04

dirt roads. I don't go to the top row, they

1:03:06

do not go up there. I don't do

1:03:09

that. So why did you guys go out there then? We

1:03:11

went to Walmart. What

1:03:14

do you ask me? Like, hey, your truck? Why did

1:03:16

you go out where? Okay. But

1:03:18

you went wrong. You went beyond the back

1:03:20

of the house. Okay, your truck went beyond

1:03:22

Walmart and you guys went west. You

1:03:26

went west of Unserve for

1:03:28

something. Remember? Unserve.

1:03:31

No. Because Annie's

1:03:34

truck was spotted near where Marilyn's

1:03:36

body was found, the cops

1:03:38

decided to search it and

1:03:40

Annie seemed pretty confident that they

1:03:43

wouldn't find anything incriminating. So

1:03:45

we are going to process the vehicle for a

1:03:47

kind of evidence inside the vehicle. Okay. Is

1:03:50

there going to be any reason that

1:03:52

Marilyn's DNA is going to be inside that

1:03:54

vehicle? Unsurprisingly,

1:03:57

the police did find Marilyn's

1:03:59

DNA. in the bed of

1:04:01

Annie's truck along with

1:04:04

a few other things. Court

1:04:06

documents show five days later investigators

1:04:08

find blood in the bed of

1:04:10

that truck along with Marilyn's purse,

1:04:12

medications, pants, and keys to her

1:04:14

car. Obviously Alyssa

1:04:17

and Annie weren't criminal masterminds.

1:04:20

Jesus these people couldn't even figure out how to

1:04:22

pay their fucking rent. They

1:04:24

committed this murder and then did

1:04:27

an absolutely horrible job

1:04:30

of covering it up. Not

1:04:32

only did the cops find Marilyn's blood in

1:04:34

the back of Annie's truck but

1:04:36

they also found a whole bunch of

1:04:38

Marilyn's blood in Annie's bedroom. Specifically

1:04:55

maybe in your bedroom.

1:04:57

And when we do

1:04:59

because we have, what's

1:05:01

going to be the

1:05:03

answer? We've

1:05:06

been together.

1:05:09

Just because you've

1:05:11

been together, you've been in a crime

1:05:14

together. There's

1:05:16

blood in your

1:05:19

room. How

1:05:22

did it get there? I

1:05:24

don't know. Okay.

1:05:26

I've never

1:05:28

bled in my room. Oh no, that's

1:05:30

a lot. Yeah. I

1:05:33

guess I expect people to be leaving easy

1:05:36

but we are moving

1:05:38

out of that place. We're trying

1:05:40

to do it in peace. We're

1:05:42

not doing wrong here. You

1:05:44

guys do what you need to do. When

1:05:48

faced with the facts, Annie

1:05:50

just denied everything which

1:05:53

wasn't exactly a sound strategy.

1:05:56

The physical evidence was just overwhelming.

1:06:01

and detectives made that very

1:06:03

clear. No

1:06:30

way. There's no way

1:06:32

that you don't know what happened. I

1:06:34

mean, you didn't see someone cleaning.

1:06:37

Cleaning up blood. No. Yes.

1:06:40

And then your truck? I didn't see

1:06:42

that. Honey, your truck was... Your truck,

1:06:44

you were on traffic cameras? Where

1:06:47

we found the body? Like

1:06:50

I said, I've seen this. So we need

1:06:52

to explain it. Well, I don't. I can't.

1:06:54

Because I don't... I didn't see anything. If

1:06:58

I'm gonna show this way that you had to try and

1:07:00

switch it up on me, I'm not gonna even

1:07:02

pack at this point. Because I'm telling

1:07:05

you, I'm not lying. I didn't have... I

1:07:07

didn't think I asked you to help me

1:07:09

rid of the body. No. Despite

1:07:13

the evidence, Annie denied

1:07:15

any involvement with the murder.

1:07:18

But in the end, it didn't matter.

1:07:22

The cops had more than enough to

1:07:24

put both Annie and Alyssa behind

1:07:27

bars. And they

1:07:29

started with Alyssa. Anne,

1:07:32

do you know why you're here today? No,

1:07:34

I don't. Okay. So the reason I brought

1:07:36

you down or had you arrested is I

1:07:38

haven't asked a warrant or a arrest warrant

1:07:40

for the murder of Marilyn. Okay.

1:07:43

Okay. So that's gonna take a little

1:07:45

while and then you'll be booked into the

1:07:47

Metropolitan Detention Center. I'm

1:07:49

sorry? I'm not gonna lie. I'm gonna have to pay my

1:07:51

books for murder. I didn't do it

1:07:53

so... Okay. Well, that's what the arrest warrant

1:07:55

is for. Okay. Do

1:07:58

you have any questions for me at this point? I

1:08:00

need to speak to somebody, a

1:08:02

lawyer. In May of 2018,

1:08:05

Alyssa Bickett was officially arrested and

1:08:08

charged with the murder of Marilyn

1:08:10

Gander. A short time

1:08:12

later, detectives also

1:08:14

formally charged her friend, Annie

1:08:17

Rayell. So, do you

1:08:19

know why you're here today? No.

1:08:23

Okay. So the reason you're here today

1:08:25

is I have an active arrest warrant for you

1:08:28

for the murder of Marilyn. Okay? So

1:08:31

at this point, you're being charged

1:08:33

with this, but I cannot defend her. Conspiracy

1:08:36

to commit murder, can bring

1:08:38

evidence, and conspiracy to commit

1:08:40

evidence. Okay. Months

1:08:43

later, and perhaps after

1:08:45

learning the full extent of

1:08:48

the potential consequences they were facing,

1:08:51

both Alyssa and Annie decided

1:08:53

to confess. Though

1:08:56

their respective stories didn't

1:08:58

quite match up. According

1:09:01

to Alyssa, Annie

1:09:03

was the primary aggressor and

1:09:06

the one that set Marilyn's murder into

1:09:09

motion. So Marilyn, you know, she's

1:09:11

sitting in her car, and then she

1:09:13

comes, she's coming in, because she needed to use the rest

1:09:15

of her drink. It's like, look at my mom. This is

1:09:17

our house. Can't we just stay here one more time? She's

1:09:20

in our old beds, and she said no. And

1:09:24

so he was crying, and he left out the

1:09:26

back door. I stayed in my room,

1:09:29

and at that point, I did

1:09:31

hear Marilyn yell. And I went

1:09:33

out there, and Annie's on

1:09:35

her back. She's on

1:09:37

the ground. So Marilyn's on the

1:09:39

ground, and Annie's on the part of her back. Oh,

1:09:41

she's on the in her back. Okay. I

1:09:44

tied up her hands and legs, and

1:09:46

I helped her put this bag

1:09:49

over her head. Do you remember what you did

1:09:51

it with? What you tied her up with?

1:09:53

Yeah, it was like full cords and stuff like that.

1:09:55

Then there's the other one that Annie gets, put

1:09:57

it around her neck. And

1:09:59

I... I hear it's not that I don't know if it's the

1:10:02

court. I'll just think, I gotta

1:10:04

go. Alyssa explained

1:10:06

that during an argument with Marilyn

1:10:08

about the rent money and eviction,

1:10:12

Annie unexpectedly attacked

1:10:14

her. Then

1:10:17

Alyssa and Annie beat, stabbed,

1:10:19

and suffocated Marilyn to

1:10:22

death. After she

1:10:24

was dead, they loaded her

1:10:26

body into the back of Annie's truck

1:10:30

and drove north toward Rio

1:10:32

Rancho. Alyssa

1:10:34

admitted that after they stopped on

1:10:36

a somewhat desolate back road, they

1:10:39

unloaded a mattress and placed Marilyn's body on

1:10:41

top of it. Then

1:10:44

Alyssa poured gasoline on the

1:10:46

body and lit it on

1:10:48

fire. For

1:10:50

detectives, Alyssa's version of events

1:10:53

somewhat aligned with what

1:10:55

they believed happened. Oh

1:11:21

shit, look what we just did. It

1:11:24

got out of control. Now we need

1:11:26

to get rid of the body. The

1:11:29

detectives believed that the murder was

1:11:31

not planned and that

1:11:33

it happened in a moment of desperation and

1:11:36

anger. A moment

1:11:38

where you lose control of your

1:11:41

emotions. A moment where you're

1:11:43

faced with the weight of

1:11:45

the world on your shoulders and you just

1:11:48

snap and do something

1:11:50

really, really, really stupid. And

1:11:52

now there's even more

1:11:54

consequences facing you. There's even

1:11:57

more problems ahead.

1:12:00

Unless you eliminate what

1:12:03

you just did. Unless you

1:12:05

erase it. Unless you

1:12:07

erase this person. It was

1:12:09

salted. It can

1:12:11

happen so very quickly.

1:12:14

And lives are changed forever.

1:12:19

It's an incredible story, but it's

1:12:22

too bad that it's all bullshit. According

1:12:24

to Annie, that is. You

1:12:26

see, when Annie decided to confess, she

1:12:29

revealed that the murder was, in

1:12:31

fact, premeditated. And

1:12:34

then when Drake stopped there, we

1:12:36

all were in a listening room, getting

1:12:39

nice. It was pretty

1:12:42

much when Alyssa,

1:12:45

like, she had brought

1:12:47

it up before about changing

1:12:49

her own. I still didn't think

1:12:51

we were gonna do it, like, and

1:12:54

Marilyn was coming in. And

1:12:57

Drake was like, can you

1:12:59

just let us say, look

1:13:01

at my mom's happy? She was

1:13:03

like, no. Alyssa

1:13:06

looked at me and Drake had

1:13:08

nodded, and I looked at Drake, and

1:13:10

he started, like, walking behind Marilyn. And

1:13:13

I got Marilyn in from

1:13:16

behind and took

1:13:18

her down. She

1:13:20

explained that after she took Marilyn

1:13:22

to the ground, Alyssa and her

1:13:25

son Drake helped to tie Marilyn

1:13:27

up. Then

1:13:29

they wrapped a plastic bag over Marilyn's

1:13:31

head, beat her with a baseball

1:13:34

bat, and stabbed her to death.

1:13:37

One major difference in Alyssa

1:13:39

and Annie's stories involved Drake.

1:13:43

According to Alyssa, Drake left the house

1:13:46

before the murder happened. In

1:13:48

Annie's version, Annie, who, you

1:13:51

know, probably doesn't give a shit about Drake, Drake

1:13:54

was the one that finished Marilyn

1:13:57

off by slitting her throat. like

1:14:00

mother, like son, I guess.

1:14:03

The son doesn't fall far from the murderous mother

1:14:05

tree or something like that. I don't know. Maybe

1:14:07

that should be a shirt. Anyway,

1:14:10

ultimately, the detectives determined that

1:14:12

Annie's confession was a

1:14:15

more accurate telling of the events and

1:14:18

that Alyssa was probably trying to protect

1:14:20

her son from a murder conviction. She

1:14:23

was unsuccessful in that pursuit.

1:14:27

After detectives finalized their investigation

1:14:29

and handed things off to

1:14:31

prosecutors, Drake, Alyssa

1:14:34

and Annie all faced

1:14:36

murder charges. All

1:14:38

three of them decided not

1:14:40

to take their respective cases to trial and

1:14:43

they all pled guilty. Alyssa

1:14:46

was sentenced to 30 years in prison.

1:14:49

Drake got 26 and Annie

1:14:52

was given a reduced sentence of 12 for

1:14:55

her willingness to cooperate. You

1:14:58

could say that justice has been

1:15:00

served, but for Marilyn's

1:15:02

friends and family, and

1:15:05

specifically for her brother, that

1:15:07

justice comes as a small consolation.

1:15:12

Harry Gander continues to live

1:15:15

with the tragic loss of his sister

1:15:18

and the realization that Marilyn's

1:15:20

final moments alive must have

1:15:22

been absolutely horrifying

1:15:25

and incredibly painful. She

1:15:27

was just a very kind person

1:15:31

and she didn't deserve anything like this.

1:15:34

It's a useless thing that my sister

1:15:36

was killed. I mean, that

1:15:38

was for no reason actually. Marilyn

1:15:41

Gander was so

1:15:43

brutally murdered by these three people

1:15:46

that she knew that she

1:15:49

was kind to in

1:15:52

many ways that they probably didn't

1:15:54

deserve. The

1:15:56

mastermind behind that murder, if you

1:15:59

can even call her that was Marilyn's

1:16:02

daughter-in-law, Alyssa

1:16:04

Bickett. For most

1:16:06

of her life, Alyssa was given a place

1:16:08

to live for free. Her

1:16:11

husband and mother-in-law provided that for her,

1:16:14

but when the time came for Alyssa

1:16:17

to provide for herself, she

1:16:19

lashed out and decided to

1:16:21

do something truly horrific. Alyssa

1:16:26

felt entitled. She

1:16:28

felt that Marilyn owed her a home.

1:16:33

When Marilyn refused to give

1:16:35

Alyssa what she wanted, Alyssa

1:16:37

planned and carried out her

1:16:40

murder. And perhaps

1:16:42

worst of all, she

1:16:44

made her own son kill his

1:16:46

grandmother, and now

1:16:48

he's spending decades of his life

1:16:51

behind bars. Ironically,

1:16:54

Alyssa was able to avoid

1:16:57

paying rent, and you

1:16:59

and I are the beneficiary

1:17:01

of that privilege. Beneficiary

1:17:05

or benefactor? What's the right word

1:17:07

for that? Anyway,

1:17:10

Alyssa has a respectable,

1:17:12

decent place to live now.

1:17:16

Still, for the rest of her

1:17:18

life, she still doesn't have to pay rent. For

1:17:21

the next 30 years, she'll have a free

1:17:23

roof over her head. She'll

1:17:26

be given three square meals

1:17:28

a day, and she won't have to pay for

1:17:30

any of it. Though, I

1:17:33

doubt her accommodations are what

1:17:35

she was hoping for. Who

1:17:37

knows? I mean, I hear prisons these

1:17:39

days have free basic cable

1:17:41

and even some restricted internet

1:17:45

access. Doesn't sound quite that bad

1:17:48

compared to the nine to five

1:17:50

cubicle life, if you ask me. If

1:17:54

Alyssa's fate tells us anything, gives

1:17:57

us any sort of lesson, whatsoever,

1:18:01

it proves that a sense of

1:18:04

entitlement can be a

1:18:06

very dangerous thing. As

1:18:08

much as we might not want

1:18:10

to admit it, there is at

1:18:13

least a little bit of entitlement in all

1:18:15

of us. So

1:18:17

try and be sure to keep yours in

1:18:20

check and remember that

1:18:22

nobody owes you anything.

1:18:26

Not your mother-in-law, not some true

1:18:28

crime podcast producer. Nobody

1:18:32

owes you a fucking thing.

1:18:36

So if you want something, you're

1:18:39

going to have to do the work. You're

1:18:41

going to have to go out there and

1:18:44

just like in the old days, you're

1:18:47

going to have to earn it. Oh,

1:19:01

one more thing before we go. If

1:19:04

you want to get any of the

1:19:06

snazzy new merch over at store.sortonscale.com, make

1:19:08

sure you go to sortonscale.com first, log

1:19:11

in with your Plus membership and

1:19:13

click the store link on the top of the

1:19:15

page so that you get your discount. It

1:19:18

will be automatically applied at checkout as long

1:19:20

as you click that link. All

1:19:22

right, that's going to do it. Until next time, stay

1:19:25

safe. Hey

1:19:46

there, this is Jenny from Tacoma. This is

1:19:48

a message for Gertie. Gertie,

1:19:50

you are a goddess. I am appalled

1:19:52

to find that people are giving you

1:19:54

trouble. For all of you out there

1:19:56

who are and you know who you are, this is a

1:19:59

community. those samples, not apples, so

1:20:01

please take her to your room and

1:20:03

please her. Alright, I'm sorry

1:20:05

to say I'm out of the gate. Hey.

1:21:00

Thank you.