We’re excited to welcome Duane Schulz to the Talking Stack this week- not just because he brings decades of perspective from both enterprise and start-up experiences, but also because he is a passionate champion of responsible marketing that creates true brand value. Here’s what we talked about:On Steering the marketing and martech digital transformation at Xerox: Duane highlights a 4 step framework they followed when he led the dual marketing and martech practice there: 1. Discover: identify the tech people had already deployed across a very distributed marketing operation (over 30 different marketing teams globally) and finding the stacks that had been created intentionally - and unintentionally2. Organize: develop a taxonomy that combined the need for a centralised layer and a decentralizes ‘satellite layer’, and give the decentralized marketing organizations the freedom to make their own choices while still governing centrally3. Structure: identify the resources/ skills/ training and funding needed at the centre and on the ground and create a new organizational structure to manage the stack4. Plan: building a multi-year progression model – people tend to underutilise every martech tool they use- so we made a plan to progressively go to higher levels of optimal usage and defined the steps needed to get there- all the while, still rolling out new tools in parallel!On the differences in the way marketers choose martech today versus at a time when the landscape had 1500 logos on itThe biggest development is the level of maturity we have now in tech selection and management, of course. We didn’t have a stack model back then - the big change is the way the (martech) tools are organized by functions and purpose in managing the customer journey versus what they do. Today, we also have a complex ecosystem with tons of plugins versus a few monolithic pieces of technology. On a Brand Value and Lean Surveillance approach to marketingBrands should approach privacy as a human right not a compliance matter- what if we embrace it and make it key part of the marketing function? Today, tracking has become an euphemism for Surveillance, and we are not doing it mindfully. Each tool in our stack is weaponised with tracking- which the vendors of these tools are doing on my behalf. CEOs and CMOs are carrying a lot of risk in their stack that may blow up on them one day- but they are also carrying a lot of opportunity to create brand value – what if we thought about that as the potential value of our stack instead of short term metrics like leads?This thinking is disruptive because marketers don’t want to mess with their demand gen numbers and traffic numbers (in the short term). But building trust and brand value beyond just the privacy and consent conversation needs disruptive thinking such as the concept of Lean Surveillance– a set of principles and practices that Duane elaborates in the conversation. Some of the nuggets include:• Be mindful about the inbound data you collect• Make a decision about buying or sharing data (Duane’s advice is - don’t buy data, don’t share data)• Avoid ‘misdirection’ and dark patterns- they detract from letting people make clear and wilful choices• Seriously consider walking away from lead scoring (highly disruptive but don’t miss Duane’s argument!)• Create a ‘tracking policy’ that sits next to your privacy policy• Audit yourself• Practice privacy by design• And many more….