0:02

Welcome to TCN Talks . The

0:04

goal of our podcast is to provide

0:07

concise and relevant information

0:09

for busy hospice and palliative

0:11

care leaders and staff . We

0:14

understand your busy schedules and believe

0:16

that brevity signals respect

0:19

. And now here's

0:21

our host , Chris Comeaux .

0:24

Hello and welcome to TCNt alks . I'm

0:26

so excited . Today Our guest is

0:28

Julie Kennedy-Oehlert . She's

0:30

a DMP and RN . She's the Chief Experience

0:33

and Brand Officer at ECU Health

0:35

. Welcome , Julie . Hey

0:38

, hi , hi everybody , and what I left out is Julie's

0:40

just a good friend , and so Julie and I worked

0:42

together back in the day at Studer

0:44

Group . And , julie , what I loved about you , I always kind

0:46

of felt like I was a little bit on an island because my

0:49

job was different , working kind of taking

0:51

quents , great approach in

0:53

hospitals , but taking it to the post-acute

0:55

continuum . And I don't know if it's because we're like both

0:58

rebels , but we just kind of we're really kind

1:00

of connected with each other and you were such a great mentor

1:02

and a support for me and I just really

1:04

always appreciate it , you and I appreciate you being on

1:06

the show today .

1:08

Well , and I appreciate you back and I appreciate the

1:10

trailblazing that you did then and you're

1:12

doing now . So well , julie

1:14

, we'll have a great conversation today .

1:16

I'm looking forward to it . Well , first off , tell our audience what do they

1:18

need to know about you All ?

1:20

right . So I

1:23

was raised to work in healthcare

1:25

. I was raised in a rural

1:27

community . I'm one of eight children

1:30

. My mother was a nurse , my

1:32

grandmother was a nurse

1:34

midwife of sorts and

1:37

I think as a number six child

1:39

, I always was trying to take care

1:41

of people . I think I was just like born to be

1:43

a nurse , and when I

1:45

was on this and this shows

1:47

my dedicated nature is

1:50

when I was like 12 or 13, . I use my

1:52

older sister's driver's license so that

1:54

I could look like I was 16 . So I could

1:56

be a nursing assistant at a local

1:58

nursing home which I worked with my mom

2:00

and my sister , and I

2:02

just feel like healthcare is for me

2:05

and I'm for healthcare . I've

2:07

worked in healthcare my whole life and

2:09

I am no less passionate about

2:11

it now as when I wanted

2:13

to be a nursing assistant . So bad I wasn't

2:15

old enough and I just

2:17

I don't see any other place for me but healthcare

2:20

. It's so fulfilling and

2:22

even in these crazy times it's

2:24

just so heartfelt .

2:26

And Julie , just because I've gotten to know you

2:28

better , you actually you left one key part

2:30

out about you . Have a child who actually worked in hospice

2:32

, can just just brag on her a little bit .

2:34

Yes , so I have two children

2:37

I'm blessed and my

2:39

older son works in healthcare

2:41

. He is works in finance

2:43

and healthcare and then my younger daughter

2:45

is a nurse . She

2:47

became a nurse . I'm so proud of her

2:49

and she has a deep love

2:52

for home health and hospice

2:54

and particularly home hospice . She

2:57

left acute care during the pandemic

2:59

. She said I just don't feel like I'm

3:01

using my nursing heart and

3:03

I was surprised because I've been in an acute care

3:05

nurse ER , trauma nurse for most of my career

3:07

and she went to home

3:09

hospice and she fell

3:11

in love and she found herself there and

3:13

I'm very proud of her

3:16

and I think that through her

3:18

I have found my own tribe

3:20

with home hospice and just

3:22

the . You know the heart that's

3:24

in that work .

3:25

That's how we kind of refound each other . And one

3:27

thing I have to tell you that I got the opportunity

3:29

to talk to your daughter recently . We had to zoom with each

3:31

other and something she said about you

3:33

and about , of course , your title has

3:35

chief experience officer in it , and

3:38

she talked about how , even as the family

3:40

, that let's make an experience

3:42

of it we're going to go do this , make an experience of it

3:44

, and that made a cool impression on me , Like it

3:47

made me think about my July 4 celebration

3:49

as a family coming up in a totally

3:51

different way . So I just wanted to pay that forward to you . That felt

3:53

like what a great piece of wisdom . Like

3:55

let's make it an experience with each other . So you

3:58

let that part of who you are trends in every

4:00

part of your life . I thought that was cool .

4:02

The memories , the memories . And you know , when

4:04

you think about people's

4:06

last days or months on this earth , what

4:08

do they have ? But the memories , and the memories

4:11

you help them create .

4:12

Yeah , I mean , memories are powerful

4:14

and memories are the experience you just something

4:16

I picked up years ago was from a talk show host

4:18

when I lived in Houston , texas , and he would say make

4:20

some deposits into the memory bank . So

4:23

every holiday that's my last word to our

4:25

team make some deposits into the memory bank

4:27

. I didn't connect , but that's still just now . It's kind

4:29

of Julie's version of make it an experience . Well

4:32

, well , julie , how we got reconnected , mphi

4:35

called me and they said do you know Julie Kennedy

4:38

? I'm like heck , yeah , Like what do you think

4:40

about her being a keynote speaker at

4:42

our Las Vegas big annual NPHI

4:45

summit ? I'm like that would be awesome

4:47

. I didn't know . Julie was kind of speaking

4:49

in our segment and so that

4:51

was so cool for me to play such a small part

4:54

. And then one of the calls , they said we

4:56

had all the CEOs on and they said hey , chris

4:58

, we , since we're having Julie

5:01

bear keynote speaker , can you say something about

5:03

her ? And so that was just awesome

5:05

because you knocked the ball out of the park , julie

5:07

. You were I think you were absolutely the

5:09

best presentation and you just

5:11

had a great stage presence , and so I'd

5:13

love for you to talk about that a little bit on this podcast

5:16

. The title of your talk was what's Love

5:18

Got to Do with it , and I'd love to

5:20

actually name our podcast that today . So can you share

5:22

just some of the key points , because

5:24

you know people were talking about it afterwards . Our Tilios

5:27

members are like you know , julie , can you introduce

5:29

me to her like you were such a rock star

5:31

. That's so nice , that's so nice .

5:33

It was a great audience . It felt so

5:35

good to be talking to these , these

5:37

wholehearted people . So I

5:39

got a call . I did a podcast with American

5:43

nurse association called See you Now , and

5:45

it wasn't actually a podcast , we were just chatting

5:47

and that

5:49

podcast was their Christmas series a couple of years

5:51

ago and then people

5:54

started hearing it and it was really about love

5:56

. I had written an article called

5:58

"What's Love Got to Do with it , which is really a

6:00

strategic way to look at how

6:03

you run health care , and what's

6:05

really interesting about that article

6:07

is it was one of the top articles

6:10

, downloaded articles , and I got

6:12

asked to speak at the World Nurse Congress

6:14

and I told the story on stage

6:16

and I think people felt me a little because this

6:19

was , you know , right before

6:21

the pandemic ish , and

6:23

I was pretty excited to speak at the World Nurse Congress

6:25

. I was worried and a lot of the articles

6:27

there are very scientific . Well

6:30

, love is an art and a science

6:32

and it's a strategy , and so

6:34

I decided I was going to do my present

6:36

. I was first up , so I was opening the session

6:38

and I decided I'm not going to use graphs

6:40

, I'm going to be true to myself and I'm going to talk

6:43

about love . And

6:45

I got up there , my slides were beautiful

6:48

I love butterflies because they're transformational

6:50

and I got

6:52

done talking about my article and

6:55

the room was silent and

6:58

I picked up my stuff and I

7:00

walked down the front aisle and I wasn't upset

7:02

. I thought to myself they're

7:04

not ready . They're not

7:06

ready to associate love

7:09

with health care . They're not

7:11

ready . So then I stand on the stage

7:13

and I have a whole group of people

7:15

that are so ready . They're like

7:17

yes , love has everything

7:19

to do with the work that we do

7:21

and how we treat our team members . So

7:23

for me it was really uplifting . It

7:26

was just a great day for me so fascinating

7:28

for me .

7:28

I'm reflecting Julie , and so you

7:31

might remember my background . So I worked corporate America

7:33

, fortune 50 , kpmg , pete Marwick and

7:36

it was providential how I

7:38

ended up in hospice . My wife was from Pensacola

7:40

, florida , and she pointed to the help

7:42

wanted ads . Because we really wanted it . We're thinking

7:44

about starting our family , wouldn't it be cool live near family

7:46

? So we live big , houston , texas

7:49

. But basically what happened is she pointed to the

7:51

help wanted ads and she said I don't know why , but you're supposed

7:53

to look at that . So I literally was like Dorothy

7:55

landing in the land of Oz . And

7:57

here I am big , you know accountant , you know

7:59

corporate America , and I'm like where

8:02

the hell have I found myself ? And but you're

8:04

so right , I mean this heartfelt aspect

8:07

. And so when I kind of reflect

8:09

on my career , it's probably

8:11

been doing a bit of both is

8:13

having that head in heart and balancing

8:16

head in heart . And I remember when we

8:18

start working together and Stu to remember

8:20

something that Quint used to always say is that your typical

8:22

hospital is measuring 600

8:24

things . And I took that quote he

8:27

would say and I'd use it in my hospice work

8:29

and I'd say this and I

8:31

said I wonder if hospitals have forgotten

8:33

why they're measuring what they're measuring

8:36

, and almost as a cautionary tale

8:38

for us within hospice , because one

8:40

of the things that the beauty of

8:42

working with you and all the great student coaches , I

8:45

said what's happening in hospitals is coming to hospice

8:47

, we're going to have all this data , we're going to have five star

8:49

ratings . You know , none of that was in hospice

8:51

space and sure enough it

8:53

actually has come . So now we're having to

8:55

measure a lot more stuff , which is much more you

8:58

know , right , cerebral kind of left

9:00

brain , and so anyway

9:02

, I don't know how that kind of it's . I'm just

9:05

reflecting , looking through the rear view mirror of

9:07

, and I think there's a cautionary

9:09

tale for us in hospice as well , because

9:11

I think we've maintained that heart , but

9:13

, boy , there's some trade winds pulling us in that

9:15

direction . Is that as you

9:17

kind of think ? Reflect back on hospital , do

9:20

you think that's kind of part of it is all the data and

9:22

the measurements . Not that those are bad things .

9:24

Yeah , yeah , and I think

9:26

the tactics too . You know

9:29

when you think about processes

9:31

and how I use cultural transformation

9:34

theory and

9:36

it was eye-opening for me . So hospitals

9:39

got very process-driven healthcare did

9:41

processes , interventions

9:44

, measurement , and that's fine

9:46

, with a balance of something else . So

9:48

when I was studying to get my doctorate

9:50

and I have a doctorate in health

9:53

innovation and I studied design

9:55

, thinking and leadership , so that was my studies and my

9:57

doctorate and I was going down a rabbit

10:00

hole about the state of

10:02

healthcare and the state of hospitals

10:04

. Now you've kind of just given us a little

10:06

worry , like , is this where the hospice

10:09

has to be careful ? So , and I was

10:11

looking up , I was down . Have

10:13

you ever been down the rabbit hole ? I was

10:15

so far down this rabbit hole . I was looking

10:17

up all the things that we have put

10:19

into healthcare that didn't work Checklists

10:23

in the OR , customer service

10:25

strategies , nursing interventions

10:28

that they just didn't work , they

10:30

don't , they don't , they're not sustainable and they don't give us

10:33

the results and I kept reading the little

10:35

end of all these scholar articles that said

10:37

, well , it worked except . And I started collecting

10:39

those words and I was really deep

10:41

down the rabbit hole , like I was , like I

10:43

remember I was in a hotel because I was traveling at the time

10:45

and I just had all these articles around me and I kept

10:48

saying , well , we have these great processes

10:50

, why don't they work ? And when they

10:52

don't work , why don't they

10:54

? And what came out of that and

10:56

actually made this word cloud ? What came out

10:59

of that is because when the relationships are

11:01

too structured around fear , hubris

11:04

, power dynamics , and

11:07

when you don't have good purpose

11:09

driven relationships , the

11:11

process won't work , especially

11:13

if it's a human centered process . And

11:16

that was really like for

11:18

me , and really that

11:20

was my epiphany , that we

11:23

have to have a balance of relationships

11:25

. And you can take any great

11:27

process in the world and any great

11:29

tactic in the world and you

11:31

put it in a culture that doesn't have

11:33

love and belonging and human caring . It's

11:37

probably not going to work or it's not going to sustainably

11:39

work . And for me , that was

11:41

beginning of like my journey to

11:44

think about how do you disrupt

11:46

healthcare with love and human caring , not

11:49

with harm and not with fear

11:51

, but with love and human caring

11:54

. And it works .

11:56

So one of the slides that you had , Julie , I

11:58

took a picture of it . I've used it several times . I

12:00

actually need to get the real slide from you , so it's not kind

12:04

of , but you had power with , not

12:06

power over . Can you talk

12:08

about that for a second ?

12:10

Yeah , so this happened

12:13

to me , where I started looking at how

12:15

relationships are structured actually

12:17

decides

12:20

if something works or not in a lot of scenarios

12:22

, and so there's a theory called

12:25

cultural transformation theory . I am blessed

12:27

to have a couple amazing mentors

12:29

Dr Teddy Potter at University of Minnesota

12:32

and Rian Eisler , who has written

12:34

many books on power dynamics

12:36

, and so all cultures

12:39

exist on a continuum , and

12:42

on one end of the continuum is relationships

12:45

who are structured around

12:48

domination , fear

12:50

, hierarchy you

12:52

know the kind of relationships that make your stomach hurt

12:54

when you work in them , right . So

12:56

those are power over cultures , and

12:58

all cultures have power dynamics

13:00

, right . All cultures have relationships in

13:02

them . And then on the other end

13:04

of that continuum are power

13:06

with relationships . So this is dominant

13:09

, fear-based . I call it power over which

13:11

you remember that's the words that I like to use

13:13

and power with which is partnership-based

13:16

. And those are partnerships . Those are

13:18

relationships where both people want to succeed

13:20

, those are relationships that have mentorship

13:22

in them . And all cultures kind of exist

13:24

on this continuum . And , of course , healthcare

13:27

wants to be in the power with

13:29

segment right , they want to have

13:31

their relationships be power with , because that's where all our

13:33

outcomes are . But the problem

13:35

is a lot of our relationships aren't power

13:37

with , they're power over . And

13:40

then this begs us to think about

13:42

how we talk about culture , because

13:44

culture is kind of a unicorn word , kind of buzzy , you

13:47

know . But we used to define culture

13:49

as how we do things around here , like hey

13:51

, I'm just , it's how I do it , it's just like a fish

13:53

in a bowl . But the reality is is

13:56

that I believe culture is structured by how

13:58

we . Culture is defined by

14:00

how we structure our relationships with each other how

14:02

you treat me , how I treat you , how

14:05

you treat the front desk person , how

14:07

I treat the EVS worker , and

14:09

in those relationships lies

14:11

culture , and that's very actionable . So

14:14

we use cultural transformation theory

14:16

in the concept of power over power with

14:18

, to really remind our entire

14:21

organization that those relationships

14:24

we need to be moving to power with and

14:26

what lives in power with is all the outcomes

14:29

we want better quality , better experience

14:31

, better psychological safety , innovation

14:34

, mentorship , and so

14:36

that's the . That's what I like to work on

14:38

, right Is that ? What do you do ? How

14:40

do you operationalize a power with culture

14:42

?

14:43

Thank you to our TCNt alks sponsor

14:46

, Deltacarerx . Deltacarerx

14:48

is also the title sponsor for our May

14:50

and November 2023 Leadership

14:53

Immersion courses . Deltacarerx

14:55

is primarily known as a national hospice

14:58

, PBM and prescription

15:00

mail order company . Deltacarerx

15:02

is a premier vendor of TCN and

15:05

provides not only pharmaceutical care

15:07

, but also niche software

15:09

innovations that save their customers time

15:12

, stress and money . Thank you , Deltacarerx

15:14

, for all the great work end-of-life do in

15:17

and serious illness care

15:19

.

15:20

So you , in

15:22

your presentation in Las Vegas you talked

15:25

about some tactical things . So I'd

15:27

love to tie in what you just said . So

15:29

you talked about some things like organizational listings

15:31

, stay interviews . So can you kind

15:34

of tie the two together , and what you just said to some

15:36

of those tactical things you've shared ?

15:40

Yeah , so there's levers that you can pull and

15:43

you know , what's interesting is is a lot of

15:45

times organizations with really good intent

15:47

will bring in a strategy from somewhere

15:49

else , plunk it down and

15:51

be like , okay , I should get the same results

15:53

as they did . It doesn't

15:56

work that , would it be so simple

15:58

. But it's really not like that , and

16:01

so I like to use , I like

16:03

to pull a variety of levers in different areas

16:05

to try to soften that culture , to

16:08

get to those power with relationships . That

16:10

gets me to all of those outcomes that I

16:12

want , and so some of those things

16:14

like organizational listening . I'm

16:16

all about organizational listening right now , coming

16:18

out of the pandemic , most organizations

16:21

are really good at cascading down

16:23

and I would call that power over . Right

16:25

. I'm just going to cascade information

16:27

down to you in the organization . I

16:29

send a memo , I do a town hall

16:32

, virtually , but I turn off the chat function

16:34

, right , and we need that

16:36

one way communication . But

16:38

what's magical is the two way communication

16:41

. Do you leave your chat function

16:43

on ? Do you have town halls where people can

16:45

talk to you ? Do you have breakfast with your

16:47

team ? Do you also provide

16:49

time where team members can talk to each

16:51

other and design , and

16:54

so organizational listening is very

16:56

power with right . We're all talking about it , we're

16:58

designing , we're thinking about ways to be better

17:00

and again I think it's

17:02

a . I think I think organizations

17:05

think that they're communicating if they just push

17:07

stuff down . And I think right now

17:09

we have to push up and we have to push across

17:11

.

17:11

This is interesting . So , julie , something I used to

17:13

say , actually , again , it was such

17:16

a great privilege working with all the amazing

17:19

coaches like you that were working with hospitals

17:21

. You're trying to move patient

17:23

satisfaction and we didn't have any of that

17:25

within hospice and then predicting this is

17:27

where we're going . So I used to use this kind

17:30

of to shake people a little bit and I'd say

17:32

hospice is like a terrorist network

17:34

and people go what the heck are you talking about ? I'm

17:36

like supposedly , they say , a terrorist

17:38

network . You could cut the head or

17:40

the top off and it still functions

17:42

. And what I saw in hospice hospice

17:45

I am very biased . I

17:47

think it's one of the most brilliant models of healthcare device

17:49

because it embeds great team

17:51

principles at the closest level

17:53

to where the patient is . So you have body

17:56

, mind , spirit , belief about the patient . You've

17:58

got a nurse , social worker , chaplain , cna , the

18:00

whole team and they focus on

18:02

a care plan . So they have to function as a great

18:04

team there and they come around

18:06

the patient and fail me . It is brilliant design

18:08

. That's why even mediocre hospices

18:10

get still pretty good satisfaction

18:13

if you look at it on a distribution chart . But

18:16

what I was predicting is this guys , I

18:18

feel like I see what's coming , like

18:20

hospitals are rated on their prescainee scores

18:22

. That's going to happen to us . We're going

18:24

in a future environment . Maybe Medicare is going

18:27

to be insolvent , so surely we're going to get

18:29

paid less dollars . So is the

18:31

use analogies the whitewater

18:33

rapids get more and more difficult

18:35

. The gravitational pull is

18:37

like we are the leaders guys and

18:39

this is where we need to go . And

18:41

quite often you know I was

18:43

going out doing leadership training at some of these hospices

18:46

and the staff is almost like flicking the leaders

18:48

off their shoulder , like , yeah , you guys go

18:50

do that leadership thing . We're going to do the real work

18:52

for the patient and family . But

18:54

at some point we all have to work together

18:56

. And years ago Stephen Cove used

18:59

to use a beautiful analogy . He'd say leadership

19:01

and management is kind of like bass Management

19:03

. Let's say the job is to clear out the jungle . So

19:06

you got the people clearing out the jungle , you

19:08

got the managers sharpening the machetes

19:10

and giving water and all this stuff

19:13

, and the leader's the one that goes up at the top of the tree

19:15

and says wrong jungle

19:17

. Which is a good analogy

19:19

, because right now what you're seeing

19:21

coming out is so different than what's

19:23

happening today , and so I think

19:25

you're getting my point right . The gravitational pull

19:28

is one way power over

19:30

, because we're trying to steer the ship

19:33

, and so what do you

19:35

do about that ? And especially as it's going

19:37

to get so much more fast , paced

19:39

, complex , all these challenges coming at

19:41

us ? Because I think the

19:43

analogy or not the analogy , but the gravitational

19:46

pull is guys , I'm the leader

19:48

, you got to trust me , we got to do all this stuff .

19:51

Yeah , yeah , you

19:53

know a couple of things about that . The

19:55

first thing I think that we should all agree to

19:57

and anchor ourselves in is

19:59

that patient

20:02

experience of patients , patient experience is

20:04

a lagging indicator . It

20:06

is absolutely based on the

20:08

engagement of the team members and their

20:10

resiliency and their well-being . I think sometimes

20:12

we see them in silos and so

20:15

if we agree to that , then when

20:17

we have issues with our patient experience

20:19

, we're going to turn and say what aren't

20:21

our team members getting ? And that's a very

20:23

different approach than I'm going to punish you

20:25

for patient experience which didn't

20:27

work , by the way . All it did was make

20:29

the team members not love the

20:32

patients . You will never punish

20:34

people into loving . Try as

20:36

you might , you will never punish people

20:38

into loving . I don't know how often I have to say

20:40

that to people . You will not punish them into loving

20:42

, and so I think that's one

20:44

of those pieces . And then the other thing I

20:47

think that's really important about what you said is that

20:49

health care has become so complex

20:51

, all health care systems and the

20:53

leader can't always see what

20:55

needs to be done . They can't see the power dynamics

20:58

. I mean they can't see down into their organization

21:00

. I mean I have so many people I

21:02

have to rely on many , many layers

21:04

, and if they can't see

21:06

, they need the voice of the team members

21:08

to come up to them to help

21:11

them . They need the diversity of thought , they

21:13

need the diversity of thinking , and

21:15

so I think we were structured for

21:17

that top down , power down , because it seemed to

21:19

work . We're too complex for it now . We're

21:22

too complex . And then the other thing that we did is

21:24

we siloed the work . There's

21:27

a culture in your unit , and

21:30

this data shows us really clearly if

21:32

the patients aren't happy , the team

21:34

members aren't either . So now you have

21:36

not two problems , you have one

21:38

relationship problem , and so

21:40

I think it's the shifting to that

21:43

way of thinking that will help that leader

21:45

who's standing on the top say , hey , I

21:47

need all your great thoughts and ideas , give

21:49

them up to send them up

21:51

to me up here because I need you . And

21:53

then say you know what ? We're all interconnected

21:55

and our results are all interconnected . I

21:58

ran I love holistic data Like

22:00

I'm obsessed with it , and when you run

22:03

data on wellness

22:05

, well-being , patient experience

22:07

, team engagement it almost always

22:10

correlates and moves in unison

22:12

and we just have to agree

22:14

that that's the way that it is . We just

22:17

have to stop siloing that work and

22:19

saying you know , you've got a great team and

22:21

they love each other . The patients feel

22:23

it , the quality is good , finance

22:26

is good , we're good .

22:28

But , Julie , you also . You provided a really cool slide

22:31

that was talking about leadership . So where do

22:33

we need to spend time in the future to

22:35

activate our strategy and advance our mission

22:37

? And we'll actually superimpose it on those

22:39

that are actually watching the podcast , but can you

22:41

talk about that ? As far as leadership development

22:43

, yeah , I made that .

22:45

Actually , I made that slide for our executive team

22:48

because I think we slip

22:50

back sometimes and you're very much

22:52

a forever student

22:54

of leadership . I am , too , like I'll study leadership

22:56

forever because it's

22:59

so important . And

23:01

so , when you look at

23:04

what leaders are learning , probably

23:07

85% of it is what we would call

23:09

hard skills . They learn how to do finances . They

23:11

learn how to do , you know

23:13

, read their P&Ls . They learn how

23:16

to manage their capital

23:18

budgets . They learn how to manage their staffing models . They

23:20

learn how to manage their finances

23:22

, how many admissions they get . That's

23:26

what leaders learn . And then there's this little tiny slice

23:28

of a pie that says what

23:30

about what we used to call the soft skills

23:33

, which we now know are the deliverers

23:35

of all of our necessary

23:37

results ? And so we have to start

23:39

thinking about balancing that pie to

23:42

say you know what my leaders need

23:44

to be able to do , change leadership . They

23:46

need to have really good listening . They need to

23:48

have great empathy and empathy can be taught

23:50

. They need to understand equity . They

23:53

need to understand their own well-being , they

23:55

need to understand their team member well-being

23:57

, and then that leadership pie is

23:59

the pie that delivers all of our results

24:02

, and so I think we should stop calling

24:04

them soft skills , because I

24:06

think first of all they're hard and

24:08

, second of all , they probably are

24:10

what is gonna deliver us from

24:12

the healthcare environment

24:15

that we have now , which I think we all kind of agree

24:17

is kind of missing .

24:18

Actually , in my podcast with Quint last

24:20

year he said they're essential , which

24:22

I love . That reframe it's not soft . I've

24:25

made I quit using that term anymore

24:27

.

24:28

Um yeah , professional skills .

24:31

Well , Julie , you're working on a book . Can you talk about

24:33

your book a little bit ? It's going to be coming out later

24:35

, I think this year right , or maybe beginning of 24

24:38

.

24:39

Um , yeah , I think it's spring , uh , 2024

24:41

. So I have to tell you what happened . So

24:44

I'm on the phone with Kathy

24:47

Sitzman Dr Kathy Sitzman , she's I'm

24:49

so lucky to have her as a colleague . She's probably the

24:51

world leader in human caring

24:53

science . Um , and implementation

24:56

of human caring science . I love her . And

24:58

we're on the phone and she's like you should write

25:00

a book . And I'm like , yeah , I'm never writing a book . Like

25:03

I'm so busy now , I'm never writing a book . And

25:05

she's like I think you should . And I'm like I think

25:08

you should not talk to me like this , you

25:10

should not stress me out . And so at

25:12

that moment there's a true story . Her publisher

25:15

because she's written several books , her

25:17

publisher texts her and says

25:20

do you have anything new going on ? And

25:22

Kathy's like , as a matter of fact , I do , I'm talking

25:24

to somebody right now . And and

25:27

I said , yeah , I don't really want to do that . And

25:29

she said just write an outline . Just write

25:31

an outline and send it . And

25:33

I said , all right , but I

25:35

don't see where this is going to go . This is a true

25:37

story . I wrote the outline , we sent it to the

25:40

publisher , cognela , they took it

25:42

and I had a book deal .

25:43

That is awesome .

25:45

And I was freaking

25:47

out , um , but Kathy

25:49

Sisson is my co-author and

25:51

it is called System Innovation

25:54

a holistic approach to

25:56

disrupting with love and human

25:58

caring , and it is

26:01

everything that all my

26:03

experiences have taught me and it's

26:05

got my heart , um , and

26:08

it's a lot about those levers

26:10

. So , to connect the dots , it's about

26:12

those levers that organizations can

26:14

pull to soften their

26:16

culture , to create a culture

26:19

where people can thrive . So things

26:21

like how you use measurement because some

26:23

people use measurement to harm

26:26

and punish people yeah , you agree , red

26:28

and green dashboards are they hurt

26:30

people ? They can hurt people . Um

26:32

, you know how they teach hospitality

26:35

to make sure it's about love and not about

26:37

a punitive approach , how leaders

26:39

respond , how we use

26:41

our communication as a venue

26:44

. I have marketing and comps . How do I use

26:46

my marketing and comps team as literally

26:48

a vessel for culture disruption

26:52

? So how do you use your experience

26:54

team in different ways , and so it's about that

26:56

. It's a innovation book and

26:58

I'm pretty excited about it , but I've never written

27:00

a book before , so , who knows

27:02

, and I think it might be a little right , justly indignant

27:05

too , um , for those of you who have met me , I mean

27:07

, it's a little edgy , I think maybe Not

27:09

from you , julie .

27:11

I'd love the rebel part of you Um

27:13

. Can people pre-order the book , julie ?

27:16

Um , yeah , they can pre-order the book . I'll send you the QR

27:18

code .

27:18

We'll include it whenever we push the podcast

27:20

.

27:21

Yeah , I will . I will tell you

27:23

my favorite , my favorite chapter in the book

27:25

. Well , I love the measurement chapter because

27:27

I love disrupting with measurement . But my favorite chapter

27:30

is how do we deal with

27:32

hospitality in

27:35

a way that is loving

27:37

to team members and patients and

27:39

how do we ensure that our

27:41

team members love our hospitality

27:44

, outline our

27:46

hospitality strategy , as

27:48

much as our patients would , and that really

27:51

I love that chapter . I love that chapter Awesome

27:53

.

27:53

Well , Julie , any final thoughts ?

27:57

Um , I just am grateful that you

27:59

and I got to see each other again

28:01

and that I'm proud of

28:03

all the work you're doing , and I'm grateful to just

28:06

be able to chat with you a little bit

28:08

today , and I , you

28:10

know , never waste a good crisis . Healthcare

28:13

is really messy right now , but

28:15

out of every great crisis

28:17

comes amazing innovations and

28:20

, um , I think that people working healthcare can

28:23

fix everything that comes our way . I am

28:25

extremely optimistic .

28:26

That's awesome , Julie . Well , Julie , I appreciate you , we're

28:29

going to you and I are going to hang on , we're going to do an

28:31

extended play only for Tilly House members and we're

28:33

going to have some further conversation , but

28:35

I want to leave our listeners as a whole , as I always

28:37

do , with a quote . There are two that Julie

28:39

picked and I had to . I couldn't choose between

28:41

them . So one's a Bernay Brown quote

28:43

, who I love , and then a Julie quote

28:46

. So let's go to the Bernay Brown quote first . Love

28:48

is not something we give or we get

28:50

. It is something that we nurture and grow

28:53

, a connection that is cultivated between

28:55

two people when it exists in each

28:57

one of them . We can only love others

29:00

as much as we love ourselves . Bernay

29:02

Brown and this is a Julie

29:04

Kennedy alert quote

29:07

If you love something , you care for it

29:09

, you fight for it , you make sure it

29:11

has what it needs to thrive . Thanks

29:14

for listening to TCNt alks .