0:07

Welcome, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast,

0:09

the longest running sales training podcast, history

0:11

of podcasts. My name is Brian Neal.

0:14

I'm Bill Kasky here every week for your

0:16

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Listeners, we're doing lots of fun stuff. We might,

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we'll see, we kind of left this a little

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0:49

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And we're thrilled you're here with us every week.

0:59

So in the spirit

1:01

of content making, we've been content

1:04

making for a long time, Bill,

1:07

there was something going on in the sales

1:09

world that I want your opinion on that

1:11

has to do with social media. And it's

1:13

it's it's a social media term has jumped

1:16

away from Instagram, Facebook

1:19

and TikTok into LinkedIn.

1:21

It is the word influencer.

1:25

And there was a big sales influencer

1:27

meetup bunch of younger people. It's great.

1:29

They've all gotten a big house 25

1:31

a night. They're all salespeople, a ease

1:33

and maybe whatever. And it's great. They

1:35

did their content stuff. I'm

1:37

a little concerned that the

1:40

persona of an influencer makes

1:43

its way to LinkedIn. I feel

1:45

like it gets away from the meat and

1:47

the goodness and the soul of what LinkedIn

1:49

is really for, which

1:51

is sharing at depth really, really

1:53

good Content, not for content

1:56

sake, but for the sake of the listeners

1:58

and that sort of thing. the

2:00

like sometimes influencers job is to their

2:02

job is to get as many eyeballs

2:04

as possible. That's. The job of

2:07

the influence or get as many followers

2:09

his eyeballs as possible and not to

2:11

produce really great stuff for the right

2:13

people at the right time. So.

2:17

There's. Such a thing now is a sales influence

2:19

or and linked in bill. Do. You

2:21

think we are sales influencers? I'm

2:25

a little how upon it I yeah we are

2:27

trying to be a me to we that the

2:29

person girls are dancing I mean do we do like

2:31

a tic tac here like get it up. Built.

2:34

In Dance On think about own logic

2:36

that he doesn't like you're a cancer.

2:38

Bill does not. Whole buried abrogate. Oh

2:41

it's so you know I feel about

2:44

the word influencer and making it's way

2:46

to like them or that persona. Four.

2:49

Here's. Here's what I

2:52

think about late dinner. I know. Okay, is it?

2:54

There's. There's. Only three

2:56

percent of the people on

2:58

Linked in. That. Are creating

3:00

content for linked them they'll just montana

3:03

thing like an article, a video of

3:05

a even have a quote graphics. the

3:07

rest of I'm A rest of us

3:09

are disliking sharing or commenting on that

3:11

content. So I'm not saying

3:14

people are active on liked and are

3:16

not active creating original content. Yeah.

3:18

The three first three percent are,

3:20

and of the three percent, ninety

3:22

percent of that is garbage. Is

3:25

just awful. It. Doesn't feel you

3:27

said that. The whole purpose of linked

3:29

and was to learn. I don't know.

3:31

I think Lincoln's full of of full

3:33

trash and is just full of garbage.

3:35

I mean ah. It's. It's all

3:37

very picky brain all very pity

3:40

and. And which is

3:42

fine but the algorithm. Surely.

3:44

Doesn't reward pitching us over

3:47

good quality content. So I

3:49

think that. The. Way to

3:51

be influential. On. linked and be

3:53

an influence or even though i'd i'd

3:55

been a crazy about that either is

3:57

to profess to create something original put

3:59

some came out there that is interesting

4:01

and compelling and educational and maybe entertaining

4:03

and maybe all four. Most

4:08

people don't. Most people don't. Would

4:10

you agree with that? Yeah, most people don't.

4:12

And then I think that's what we've jumped,

4:15

there's a gap here. We've jumped over, most

4:17

people don't, but those that do are doing

4:19

it for the attention, not

4:21

for the real strong

4:24

intention of they're looking for

4:26

attention instead of intention. They're

4:29

going after attention instead of intention. Intention

4:31

to me is I create a dialogue

4:33

and a connection with people that I

4:35

operate with on LinkedIn. I

4:37

talk back and forth, I learn, and then

4:39

some of these influencer group people are doing

4:41

that. Just that whole concept of influencer, if

4:44

you kind of look at it in other

4:46

socials, Facebook, Instagram, the others, is

4:49

mostly about eyeballs. Now, you get, you obviously get

4:51

eyeballs from either entertaining and that sort of thing,

4:53

but most of those things are that they're like

4:55

entertaining. They're funny, which is fine. There's a place

4:57

for that. I love corporate bro. He's hilarious. It's

4:59

fantastic. A lot of those guys don't make much

5:02

money. They

5:08

can't monetize because they haven't created

5:11

anything worth selling. They get paid

5:13

by brands. Barbasol

5:17

pays Jocko Willink to

5:19

do a commercial. Okay, well, that's probably

5:22

worth a fair amount of money. I

5:24

don't know. If you're not Jocko Willink

5:26

and don't have 10 million viewers or

5:28

Mr. Beast or Chris

5:31

Paul. Oh yeah. Logan, who

5:33

is it? Logan Paul. Who is it? Nicky

5:35

knows. Jake

5:44

and Logan Paul. I'm

5:46

not sure which one it

5:48

is, but he's got four and a half

5:50

million viewers on the Instagram. I saw the

5:52

other night he did a thing with Vivek,

5:56

kind of a joint thing. I thought,

5:59

Like Vivek, Or not this pretty smart to

6:01

get in front of his. but but what is.

6:04

Again, Logan, Paul, Jay Paul With that many probably

6:06

have figured out a way to monetize it. They

6:08

have the and they get them and thousand people

6:10

you don't have any any a beetle have their

6:12

email addresses. Are you don't have any way to

6:14

convert their from but have you on a week

6:16

and to an email? Yes it's It's not going

6:18

to make any money is no, it's not a

6:21

business, it's and it just it's so much time

6:23

spent trying to do something just to get eyeballs.

6:25

But those eyeballs are there there and then again

6:27

you're talking about if. If. Twenty

6:29

people start. A half of

6:31

a person is gonna get to that level.

6:33

Maybe as right not eat your email. So

6:35

nice of you're looking at what to do

6:37

with your time. I. Would just be

6:39

really careful with that. Is. Esther path

6:41

you're going down and will be an animal who

6:44

you influencing. Your. Name in. And

6:46

what the influence? How like, like learn, teaching, gauge,

6:48

that sorta thing. Maybe I'm just like the L

6:51

Word. I think you're hung up on the word.

6:53

a little bit by up. I don't think it's

6:55

wrong to be hung up on the work is

6:57

that the word itself is the problem breaks. I'm

6:59

not looking to influence people. Yeah, we're going to

7:02

engage and learn and share. I

7:04

don't. There's no part of attorney influence

7:06

anybody. At. All. He. I

7:08

said that's why I like the words personal

7:10

brand better because even though I know some

7:13

people don't like that because it conjures up

7:15

all sorts of weirdness. But personal brand is

7:17

really personal reputation. So how are you building

7:19

your reputation on these platforms? Are you doing

7:21

it by doing funny videos? That's one way

7:24

to build it, and I may not be

7:26

wrong. But. Or

7:28

are you doing it with you know?

7:31

Of intelligent thought and profound wisdom and

7:33

concepts and helping and engaging and having

7:35

a webinar here and there that to

7:38

me as much more useful especially the

7:40

Be a Be space right right? And.

7:42

Era. Okay, Funny.

7:46

Out well I had a funny sort. Ball is

7:48

also metal. next time. yeah

7:51

mike my topic today is you know

7:53

we we live in a world and

7:55

we talked about this we talked about

7:57

late last year were some times where

8:00

a little bit reluctant to say the

8:02

truth, to say what we really feel.

8:05

And that is totally good. It's good

8:07

that we're reluctant because sometimes we just

8:09

shouldn't say what we're thinking. But

8:12

other times, it might get us in trouble by

8:15

holding back and not saying what

8:17

needs to be said. And

8:19

I thought it would be interesting to

8:22

have a conversation about as coaches who

8:24

are consultants and trainers and coaches

8:26

and business owners. I'm

8:29

sure there are times where we

8:31

have things we want to say that we

8:33

don't say. Maybe not as many

8:35

today as there were 30 years ago, but

8:37

even still today, there's things that I

8:40

want to say, but I just don't. Yep.

8:43

And I thought it might be useful because I

8:45

think our listeners also have those things and

8:48

they start to eat at you if you let

8:50

them. If you don't get those out to somebody,

8:52

they can start to take a toll on you,

8:54

especially if it's something you feel really strongly about.

8:56

So I thought we'd go down that path and

8:58

see what's at the end of it. I think

9:00

it's great. And I think in the prep, because

9:02

Bill and I did like hours, days

9:04

worth of prep on this topic before

9:06

pre-show, right? Multiple meetings, multiple

9:09

drafts of the storyboard. That's

9:11

not true. Something did come up though.

9:13

This is not like a back and forth tips episode.

9:16

This is a self exploration episode. This is really

9:18

more in your head, heart and soul than it

9:21

is in your tactics. And I think that

9:23

to me is the driver. And

9:25

all of you, all of us have situations

9:28

like that. If you're a salesperson, you

9:30

have questions that you wanted to ask and the sales

9:32

call ends and you didn't ask them. You

9:36

wanted to bring up the cost or

9:38

say something about the financial side of

9:40

the deal or the economics and you

9:42

didn't. You're like, why didn't I do that? Or

9:44

you wanted to push back and you didn't. That's

9:46

what we're exploring today. Those times when I wanted

9:48

to say something left and felt I

9:51

should have and didn't. And what's the inhibition,

9:53

what's holding us back. What's in the way

9:55

of that. So, um, you just

9:57

brought up, you just brought up two

9:59

or three there. that are problems.

10:02

Absolutely. And that we like the

10:04

money, anything around money or economics

10:07

is one of those things that we're reluctant to bring

10:09

up. And if you're reluctant, you're

10:12

reluctant for a reason and we

10:15

know better when we're reluctant that is something

10:17

we should bring up. Absolutely. Yeah.

10:20

And so I think back

10:22

as we talked about this topic

10:24

going in, I thought about my own career here

10:26

as a sales coach. I was 27 years old

10:29

when I started doing this and I think about

10:31

what I was scared to death to say to

10:34

a leader of a company, to a CEO, I was talking

10:36

to her and she's like, and I think

10:39

something I wouldn't say it cause I was scared of her. I

10:42

was scared of not just her, I was scared of

10:44

losing the deal, scared of pissing her off, those sorts

10:46

of things. There's a much more fear

10:48

based stuff. So I went down the agreeable path.

10:51

Oh, I agree. Oh, totally. Yeah, I agree. And they could,

10:53

she could have changed her mind in the middle of the

10:55

thing and I would have gone right with her. Like it's

10:58

cloudy out. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually sunny. Actually.

11:00

Yeah. The way I think about it,

11:02

I think it, yeah. I see what you're saying there. That was

11:04

my MO. It's all about your, you know what I mean? Preservation

11:07

and over a lot of

11:09

personal work and over years of just

11:13

experience, learn that the

11:15

way more valuable thing to do is to

11:17

hold your own truth and be very comfortable

11:20

in it. No matter what.

11:22

Yeah. Now I feel, and so

11:24

this is the path you're probably on. I feel now a

11:27

duty to share things. If

11:29

a CEO has hired me and entrusted the

11:31

coaching and the operations of his sales or

11:33

her sales team, and I see

11:35

something that's wrong. I have a duty to share that

11:37

with the CEO. Even if, even

11:40

if it's the CEO, that's the problem. Even

11:44

if I had a dinner conversation over

11:46

a year ago with

11:48

one of my longest turning rung and clients, the

11:50

highest revenue client with the CEO and this thing

11:52

had been, you said earlier, it festers if you

11:55

don't say it. This had been festering for

11:57

awhile. We were at dinner together, his

11:59

senior leadership team. The leadership team. And.

12:01

I just that and I'd like to sweat. It just came up.

12:04

Made. It was basically about the way he bleeds.

12:07

And. Are giving people space to say things and

12:09

you say you know And it was like. No.

12:12

One gives a dead silent because everybody knew

12:14

what ever buy new it and he goes.

12:16

Ah, Yes yes think that

12:19

to see leadership team than era goes right? Well

12:21

yes it is also my good man Tell you

12:23

this because I love yet and I will. You

12:25

do well as one person's opinion That's answer as

12:28

my experience as or thing. You know what that

12:30

guy did of the next year. He

12:32

one hundred percent on his own accord seems the

12:34

way that he oled. Yeah, he's a hundred

12:37

percent stepped aside, so that hit a nerve

12:39

with him in a good way, I think.

12:41

At and I was terrified when I said i'm like okay

12:43

to the into this deal. More

12:46

wasn't it wasn't I was a dazzling

12:48

them all together for a celebration of

12:50

your last meal Is uses fifth? Yes,

12:52

Yes of course. Yeah! So Peter, Mark,

12:54

John Paul come over here. Show

12:57

you a topic. Spring Showers Worst. The

12:59

Chalice photo wasn't that. Yeah, But a

13:01

guy is a guy like that. is

13:04

Ceo for a reason is because he's

13:06

got some courage and he's got some

13:08

ability and capability and he wants to

13:10

be better. You don't get to Ceo

13:13

of if you're not improving yourself every

13:15

day or at least some point you

13:17

ever. So the very that that doesn't

13:19

surprise me at all that he said.

13:21

Really okay done next four years, I what's

13:24

our next topic and him, he was going

13:26

to go about doing it and own it,

13:28

but the most of. When. Put

13:30

in that situation, especially in a public

13:32

shaming like you like to do. Whatever

13:34

I can say is to is to

13:36

get defensive. Yeah, well you know

13:38

I did that then. but he got

13:40

ourselves gone on my life and my

13:43

jaw was sacked. I was second covered.

13:45

You know this is so. Don't

13:47

get defensive once. Once when you hire

13:49

a coach like Brian or I or any

13:51

body and they they tell you now.

13:54

I. Wouldn't just take their word

13:56

for it, but. in this

13:58

case he ask other people are the table said,

14:00

is this true? And so he got

14:03

a little bit of confirmation on it.

14:05

Yeah. But listen and everything

14:07

you hear, you know,

14:09

sometimes, okay, I'm sorry, I'll shut

14:11

up here. Okay. Sometimes when I'm

14:14

listening to a speech or a

14:16

YouTube video or a podcast, somebody

14:18

will say something that

14:20

connects it like, Oh

14:23

man, I need to

14:25

hear that. Or I needed to hear that. Or I've

14:27

never thought about that that way. If

14:29

it connects with you and maybe something on

14:31

the advanced selling podcast, 17 years ago, we

14:34

said something, I haven't

14:36

said anything since, connects with that. That's

14:38

a, that's an indication that you

14:41

need work there, or you need

14:43

to explore that further. If it's an idea, Oh my

14:45

God, I never thought about that. Write it down. If

14:48

anything connects with you, when you listen and

14:50

consume, there's something there. And I think it's

14:52

the same thing. What we're talking about here

14:55

is if you hear something today, that

14:57

speaks to you when it comes

14:59

to reluctance, then do

15:01

some diligence on it. Yes. 100%.

15:06

There's another kind of a lane

15:09

of things that I think I know I was

15:11

fearful of. And I think a

15:13

lot of salespeople are fearful of. And

15:15

that is going down the path of

15:18

asking questions or exploring things that may

15:20

feel personal or none of my business

15:22

about my buyer. The

15:24

biggest, easy example for us and where Bill and

15:26

I work is if we're in a privately held

15:28

company and it's doing your last episode, you talked

15:31

about a guy doing a hundred million dollars. He

15:33

wants to come in, you know, one

15:35

of the things that I always wondered, but never

15:37

asked for 20 plus years is

15:40

what does that guy's exit plan? Is

15:42

he looking to sell this business? And if he's going to

15:44

sell it, who's he going to sell it to? Does he

15:46

have kids he wants to sell it to? Is he going

15:48

to sell to his employees, to private equity, to a strategic

15:50

buyer? And I always justify that. It's

15:53

really none of my business. If he wants me to know

15:55

that, he'll tell me. And you

15:57

think, well, why do you want to know that? Well, that's

15:59

a huge motivation. factor for someone if they're in

16:01

that mode. And what

16:03

also I've found is people that are

16:05

in that mode, they are

16:07

looking for people around them to trust and to

16:09

talk about that. And when you're doing something like

16:11

that, there's not many people. You probably have a

16:13

lawyer or maybe a business advisor,

16:16

but it's nice to have someone that's in the weeds with

16:18

them that understands their business. It's also has an ear toward

16:21

or an eye toward getting this thing

16:23

ready for its next generational deal. Either the

16:25

second generation owns it or private equity, whatever,

16:27

it doesn't matter. But

16:29

I was always scared, like things on

16:32

a different level. If you're a salesperson,

16:34

you're calling on someone who is a

16:36

VP title, let's say. I

16:38

was always scared to ask them what their career path was.

16:40

I'm like, wow, none of my business, that's personal. I don't wanna,

16:42

that's kind of intrusive to Bill. But

16:44

I tell you what, you go there, I say,

16:46

so Bill, you're VP for what, three years now.

16:49

So what's your next two career moves

16:52

here? No one

16:54

asked people that. And when you ask people

16:56

that, they're like, oh, thanks for asking. I've

16:59

got my site set, I wanna be the CEO in

17:02

the next five years. And for whatever reason, the timing doesn't

17:04

work for that. My next path is to go buy my

17:06

own business and run it. And

17:08

I bet nobody, no other salesperson

17:10

knows that except you. It's

17:13

an instant connection with the person on a

17:15

human personal level that I think is

17:17

really hard for people to do and very important. Yeah,

17:20

I love that. I love that. And

17:23

even if that person says, I have

17:25

no idea, you've introduced

17:28

the topic. Maybe if

17:31

he or she really does have no idea,

17:33

maybe that's part of the next

17:35

conversation is maybe you have a consultant that you've

17:37

worked with who helps people figure that out that

17:39

you could turn them on to. Or maybe there's

17:41

a book or a podcast. But

17:44

they don't know to go look for it because

17:46

they've never been posed the question before until you

17:48

showed up in their life. Yes.

17:51

That's the thing. Yeah, just because there's no

17:53

answer doesn't mean there's no answer. It's

17:56

not on the surface for them. So I love

17:58

that. Here's a couple of things that. drive

18:01

me nuts and I don't talk about

18:04

them enough. And that

18:06

is sometimes I'll go into

18:08

a company and their branding just

18:10

sucks. It's just awful. It's

18:13

just awful. And the sales people may

18:15

be good, maybe not, but I'm working with them.

18:18

But the company is putting out marketing and

18:20

putting out messaging that just is awful. And

18:23

it's me, me, me, me, me, and the

18:25

color scheme. And again, I'm not a branding

18:27

expert, but I know it when I see

18:29

it. And I know it when it's not

18:32

there. But that's one thing. And so I

18:34

need to get better at saying, hey, I'm

18:37

working with you on this. You need

18:39

to rebrand because it ain't working.

18:42

You guys look like you're desperate because of

18:44

the font you use or because of the

18:46

design or because of the brochures, they don't

18:48

match or nothing matches, that kind of thing.

18:50

Yes, I think that too,

18:52

when you go there, this

18:55

is under the heading of unsolicited advice with good

18:57

intention, unsolicited advice with good intention. You can say

19:00

that to say, hey, I know your harmony and

19:02

thought we're your sales team. I

19:04

have a little slant towards branding and marketing. Would

19:07

you be comfortable if I gave you some just outside

19:09

looking in comment on your marketing?

19:11

Most people go, please do, please do. I'm

19:15

like, here's how it reads to me. One guy's

19:17

opinion, it reads very needy to me. Everything about

19:19

it, it reads neediest. Just say that to people.

19:23

I have a really good friend that you know who

19:25

owns one of the best fitness

19:28

companies here in our hometown of Indianapolis up

19:30

by North Central. His name is Mark. I

19:33

met Mark as a salesperson. I

19:36

love the guy, his drive, his motive. He

19:38

was an awful salesperson. And he will

19:40

tell you the story. We went to, I

19:42

think, a Starbucks and I said, dude, I'm just gonna

19:44

be straight with you. This is not

19:46

your jam. Sales is not your deal, dude. Every

19:49

time you talk about fitness, you light up. You talk

19:51

about sales, you like go into a ditch. And

19:54

So I'm just telling you that because I love you.

19:56

And I Think you should consider what you're doing here

19:58

for a career. He Went, he took... We'll tell you

20:00

those he went out. Did. Some work

20:02

doctor's wife started to finish place. it's enormous

20:04

now and he so Abbey and he's I've

20:06

been a quite as now for ten years.

20:08

Yeah no. The. But what would you

20:11

go there with people that's terrifying. Easy going

20:13

to hurt their feelings. It can be the

20:15

greatest thing that ever happened to them. Gotta

20:17

give out, answer that and are in. I

20:19

think that's part of trusting your instinct. mean

20:21

your instincts had to be trusted by you

20:23

to be able to even conjure up those

20:26

words. Because if you don't have any care

20:28

for people, you're not going to have any

20:30

instinct around them. Ah, so you cared about

20:32

him and therefore there were signals that he

20:34

was sending that you are picking up on.

20:37

And. And you did Some you took

20:39

action on those signals but if you're if

20:41

you're not caring about people viewed as meet

20:43

somebody on first first call, first day i

20:45

you're probably like but you have a relationship

20:47

with him and you could do notice to

20:49

win. Some you can notice when people light

20:51

up and when they're. When. They are. So

20:54

off I like the I think the stop

20:57

adding for listeners you have to ask yourself

20:59

what am I not telling people about me

21:01

and my life and where I want to

21:03

go. What am I not

21:05

saying about our products? That may be should be

21:07

sad. Maybe we should be asking different questions or

21:10

proclaiming the value of our product in a different

21:12

way. Or maybe it's the marketing team when she

21:14

had a really camera on this and you know

21:16

damn well it matter. I don't care about that.

21:18

What all they care about his axe and you

21:21

have to be able to go to your mark

21:23

the pharmacy. I know you guys think this is

21:25

important. Nobody cares. Nobody. Cares you.

21:28

Know. I guess he is. Now you're

21:30

out whatever. Where'd I boarded fight

21:32

those battles and not worth of

21:34

find out what you're afraid to

21:36

say and say it. Now there's

21:39

some that's a good one to

21:41

job. Yeah fan.