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talk to the researchers who are figuring

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the feelings that bookend each and every

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meal. Listen to Gastropod wherever you

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get your podcasts.

0:47

Welcome to In Her Shoes. I'm Lindsay Peoples,

0:50

and I'm editor-in-chief of The Cut. On

0:52

this show, I get to talk to people that we love

0:54

and admire or some that we just find interesting.

0:57

We'll explore how they found their path and

0:59

what maybe have gotten in their way and how they

1:02

brought others along now that they've arrived.

1:09

Asko Okotska is the comedian

1:11

whose videos you've probably shared with many of your

1:13

friends. She has this adorable

1:15

innocence and instant relatability that

1:18

makes her so charming and convincing on stage.

1:21

She's never afraid to make fun of herself and put her

1:23

truth out there, making viewers not only

1:25

laugh but feel a lot less alone. She's

1:28

made some time during her ongoing tour to chat

1:30

about how she got into comedy, Asian-American

1:33

representation in media, and what it's like going

1:35

viral.

1:37

Thank you again for doing this. Thank

1:39

you for having me.

1:41

Okay, so the first question I always

1:43

ask my guests is about their literal shoes

1:45

since this podcast is called In Her Shoes. So

1:48

tell me about what shoes you have on because

1:50

you're not at home, so you do have shoes on. You're

1:53

right. You are insightful.

1:56

I have CVs on. S-E-A-V-E-E-S.

1:59

They gifted these bright yellow.

2:02

Oh, they're like a slip in clog. Yeah,

2:04

slip in clog. I think it's waterproof, too.

2:07

They do look

2:08

waterproof. They look very cool, though. Yeah,

2:11

I'm really into it. I was like free and

2:14

bright colors. That's that's all

2:16

I need. And so, yeah, so

2:18

that's what I'm wearing.

2:19

I love that. I mean,

2:22

I know you have a really unique aesthetic

2:24

and obviously like a lot of opinions about

2:26

style that's so on point with your own

2:29

brand. Very playful, lots

2:31

of color and build prints. How

2:33

did you develop, you know, a sense of style

2:36

and what kind of gave you the courage

2:38

or, you know, the really desire to like dress

2:40

in a way that really is indicative

2:42

of who you really are? Yeah,

2:44

because it does take a moment, you know,

2:46

not for everyone. Some people are like, oh, I've known

2:49

my aesthetic. I've known myself and I've

2:51

been proud of it since I was young, which

2:53

is awesome. I'm always like

2:55

how I'm jealous of those people. Yeah, I'm

2:57

like good for you. Like I am intimidated.

3:00

You are 12 years old and

3:03

so confident. But

3:06

yeah, it's it was truly about like

3:09

embracing my childlike self.

3:12

You know, as a kid, what were the things

3:14

that I was drawn to? Bright colors

3:16

and patterns. And it's

3:20

not stuff I could always wear because, you know,

3:22

we couldn't afford just

3:24

any clothes, you know, when I was a kid.

3:26

So it was about like becoming

3:28

an adult and finally wearing the things I've always wanted

3:30

to as a kid.

3:31

Yeah, so that's sort of how I

3:34

came to my aesthetic. I

3:36

love that. You talked a lot

3:38

about your childhood and growing

3:41

up, specifically how your school teacher

3:43

gave you the name Stacy because she felt

3:45

like your name was too hard to pronounce. Were

3:48

you the kind of kid that actually corrected people?

3:50

Did you feel too shy or intimidated to do

3:52

that? What what was that like for you?

3:54

Yeah, I just wanted to be liked.

3:57

So no, I didn't do. Yeah.

4:00

Yeah. Yeah. So I really went with the flow

4:03

of things. And then years later,

4:05

I would undo it in therapy. So,

4:09

yeah, I. There a moment when you actually

4:12

decided like, you know what? I'm going

4:13

to correct people when they mispronounce my name.

4:16

Gosh, you know, I still as

4:19

a performer, as a standup comedian,

4:23

a woman and you

4:25

know, there weren't a ton of Asian-American

4:27

female standup still, you

4:29

know,

4:31

you kind of have to work that

4:33

line of like, don't upset

4:36

people. You're an entertainer. You

4:38

know, don't upset people too much. So my husband

4:41

actually steps in now for me

4:43

and isn't afraid to be the person that delivers

4:46

that kind of news. So he'll go up to

4:48

the host or, you know, he'll

4:50

he'll correct people

4:52

if they're saying my name weird or different.

4:55

Yeah. So he does that

4:57

dirty work for me so that I don't have to, which is

5:00

so, so great. Yeah, that's very

5:02

sweet.

5:03

Yeah. You've also talked about

5:05

Margaret Cho being an influence for

5:07

you growing up. We've had

5:09

her on the show and talked

5:11

about how difficult it was for her coming

5:13

up in the comedy world as an Asian-American

5:15

woman. What was it specifically about

5:17

her and her comedy that really captured

5:20

you?

5:21

Yeah, I mean, she's a fellow weirdo. She's

5:23

like a true weirdo like me. And

5:26

so I loved that she was authentically

5:29

her. But also was

5:32

talking about some things like about

5:34

her family that I could also relate to.

5:36

And yeah, yeah, I loved the way she

5:40

built worlds with her comedy.

5:43

It wouldn't just be like a joke she's telling.

5:45

Then she goes, OK, can

5:47

you imagine then if like a sword came out

5:49

of the back of me and just I started

5:52

slaying everyone around? You know what I mean? It was like

5:54

she would create these like action films

5:57

sometimes out of just, you know, the flight

5:59

attendant. asking her if

6:01

she wants Asian chicken salad. You

6:03

know, I just love that. And

6:05

so yeah, that's what drew

6:08

me to her.

6:09

Yeah, and her confidence. What would

6:11

you say your experience was

6:13

like when you first started doing

6:15

standup and hiring people like her? Did

6:18

you find a lot

6:19

of similarities or was it difficult? And

6:21

what was that experience like for you? It's

6:24

always scary to put yourself out there.

6:27

And especially if you

6:29

don't know if the world would

6:32

accept it,

6:33

you know, and the industry. Because

6:35

when you say a world, it's like, the world

6:37

is more down to accept you more

6:40

than the industry because there's only

6:42

like 10

6:42

deciders, right? In

6:45

the industry. I mean, there's more than that, but

6:47

you know what I mean? It's a small percentage. Yeah,

6:49

it's a small percentage of what really like the

6:51

world looks like and is actually like.

6:54

So yeah, it

6:56

is scary. I didn't finding that balance, you

6:58

know, of what the people

7:00

actually like

7:02

versus what the smaller percentage

7:04

of people like and finding

7:07

enough confidence in yourself to be like, no,

7:09

people do want to hear

7:12

what I have to say, you know? Yeah.

7:15

That's why I think it took 13 years for me to

7:17

really feel like, ah, I'm really

7:19

in my shoes, in my, of

7:22

CVs, these bright yellows. And

7:25

you were also the second Asian

7:28

woman after

7:28

Margaret to have an HBO comedy

7:31

special. Did you, I'm sure you knew

7:33

that going into it, or did you know and what, what

7:35

did that feel like in the moment? I

7:38

had an inkling because I, you know, have

7:40

kept up with standup and standup specials.

7:44

So I had to ask

7:46

the HBO execs, is that true?

7:50

Because I sort of, I did

7:52

the research and I'm friends with Margaret.

7:55

And I was like, is it true? I'm the second

7:57

one after 23 years.

7:59

And they were like, oh, yeah,

8:02

it is a little, you know, you don't

8:04

want to admit that, you know, but they were like,

8:06

they were like, yeah, actually you are.

8:10

And it wasn't like,

8:12

surprising, because I'm used

8:14

to how

8:14

things go in the industry.

8:17

It just lit a bigger fire in

8:19

me to really, really

8:22

crush it.

8:25

Talk me through at which point,

8:27

you know, in your career, did you feel like

8:29

you're really going for this

8:31

seriously and passionately? Because

8:34

I'm sure doing stand up, there's a lot of waves

8:36

of different emotions.

8:37

But at what point in your career did you feel like,

8:40

okay, like it's this, this or bust,

8:42

like I'm only doing this. So

8:44

like right after art school, which

8:46

is 2015,

8:49

you know, art school, art school

8:51

was a way of me trying to be like,

8:53

maybe I'll have a backup

8:55

option, you know, because I still didn't

8:58

like super believe in myself with stand up comedy.

9:00

And if people would accept me, I was

9:03

still doing it. But I was like, oh, I should

9:05

have other options, which is silly, because

9:07

art school as a second option

9:09

is not safer. You know, yeah, like,

9:12

oh, I'll also learn film, you know,

9:15

not safer at all. So

9:17

after art school, I was like, oh, I didn't learn

9:19

any tangible skills. You know, art school

9:21

is wild, right? There's people

9:23

running around naked and rolling around

9:25

on the ground. And that's their thesis, you know,

9:28

project, you know, that's how they graduate

9:31

or you know what I mean? And I was

9:33

like, oh my gosh, I feel like

9:37

why not wholeheartedly

9:39

do stand up comedy? Because

9:42

I just spent three years, you know,

9:44

making films about trees. You

9:49

know what I mean? Where the trees. Yeah.

9:52

Yeah. Where the trees talk because I did

9:54

a voiceover over it. So yeah,

9:58

that's what I wholeheartedly.

9:59

was like, I have nothing to lose. I love

10:02

it so much. Yeah. Yeah. I

10:05

hear that. It does feel

10:07

like we're in a moment of a lot

10:09

of industries having to, you know, reconcile

10:11

with being a lot more inclusive and

10:14

diverse and equitable. Do

10:16

you feel like in terms of Asian-American

10:19

representation in media and comedy

10:21

that things have gotten better or

10:22

does it feel fleeting still? I

10:25

think it has, you know, the more you

10:28

see of a community it's

10:30

just always better in whatever

10:32

way, even if it's like the

10:35

trashy people that you meet over a

10:37

community or whatever, the reality

10:40

TV version of us where

10:42

we're being our authentic self and maybe

10:44

not great ways to like

10:47

movies about us or podcasts

10:49

or TV shows. I think the more there

10:51

is, is great because it just normalizes that,

10:55

you know, a community is a part of the society.

10:59

I think that,

11:01

you know, as long as like the industry

11:03

keeps doing the research and is out

11:05

there really looking, I think there's

11:08

more hope for even more representation

11:10

because, you know, communities aren't

11:13

all that way. We're not all crazy

11:15

and rich. Yeah.

11:17

Yeah. You know, there were all these shows

11:19

about Asians being rich suddenly coming

11:22

out, like Bling Empire and Crazy Rich Asians

11:24

as the movie. And I was like,

11:26

that's cool. That's one way in, but like

11:28

show the poor people too now. You know?

11:31

Exactly. And to do that, you just have to do the research

11:33

and not be lazy and just keep hiring

11:35

the same 10 people.

11:37

So yeah, it's, I think, but it's still getting

11:40

there. It's getting there. Yeah. For

11:42

sure. We have to talk about your grandmother because you

11:44

have the cutest relationship with her and

11:48

she's famous for sure. Does she know that

11:50

she's famous?

11:52

She knows she's known

11:55

to an extent because like numbers

11:58

are so hard for an older person.

11:59

understand. It's like, oh, okay,

12:02

sure. Our video was seen 20 million

12:05

times or whatever. She's like, what does that even

12:08

mean? And I'm like, girl, I don't really know

12:10

either because I don't

12:12

know how many zeros 20 million

12:14

even has. I've never seen a number

12:17

like that in front of me. You know, I'd

12:19

have to see it in stashes of cash or

12:21

something for me to maybe understand, but still

12:23

I don't because I'm like, what can that buy?

12:26

Yeah, I have no idea.

12:28

We grew up so poor. And so,

12:31

you know, she gets it. She gets

12:32

recognized in the streets, you know, and

12:35

she came to the taping of my HBO special

12:37

in New York, where she saw

12:39

a whole production, a whole crew,

12:41

the director, the audiences.

12:44

There were two shows I did, you know,

12:46

she saw

12:47

all these people working for me. And so

12:50

she does get it.

12:52

She

12:53

does get it. Yeah, she's

12:56

still on EBT and still gets paid

12:58

the SSI, like from

13:00

the government every month of not that much money.

13:03

So she's like, sure, sure. I'm

13:05

famous. But like,

13:07

when is it going to take care of me? Yeah,

13:09

I treat her to stuff and I'm, you

13:12

know, I'm helping out

13:14

in all the glamour. There's

13:16

we're still grounded in reality. And that's okay.

13:18

That's good as I think a comedic

13:21

comedic family, you know. Yeah.

13:49

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15:12

So what did she think about you going

15:15

into

15:15

comedy and what did she think about the special? The

15:17

special, she was like, oh my gosh,

15:19

this is amazing. All the years of work that

15:21

I've put into it, she knows.

15:24

And so it was really cool. It was like a culminating

15:26

moment. And I brought her on stage with me at

15:28

the end, you know, and it was

15:31

cool. It felt like, yes,

15:33

like,

15:34

finally, like a homecoming. Me

15:37

doing stand-up comedy, because she didn't really

15:39

even know what it was, it's not like

15:41

a huge thing in Taiwan where she's from.

15:44

So she was like, I don't know. It's

15:47

kind of like when someone says they're a consultant, I

15:49

bet, is how she felt. She

15:51

was like, that's such a general,

15:53

general

15:55

thing that you're going into, just

15:58

comedy, you know? And

16:00

that's how I feel when someone tells me they're a consultant.

16:02

I'm like, what? What's that? Yeah, that could be literally

16:04

a million things. You give advice generally.

16:08

I could be insurance. I mean, that could be anything. Yes.

16:11

Yes. I hear you. We

16:13

also have to talk about the drop challenge that you created

16:16

a little while back. The grandma was also featured

16:18

in what was that like to have something

16:20

go, you know, viral on the Internet

16:23

and, you know, what is it like after that? Did

16:26

you feel pressure to keep up with engagement?

16:28

Like you feel like you had to post more. What was

16:30

going through your head at the moment?

16:32

Yeah, I mean, I was like

16:34

this silly thing that we just did for

16:37

fun in two minutes. It's

16:40

just us having fun. That's what all our videos

16:42

are. And which is great because

16:45

that's why I got into comedy is so that other

16:47

people can feel seen and

16:50

also have fun. So

16:52

it was cool when people started recreating it

16:54

because I was like, yes, you do it. You you

16:56

do you. It's the people's

16:58

video now. It's the people's

17:00

challenge now because it's not like you get

17:03

paid for starting a viral video or

17:05

anything. It's giving

17:07

it to the people so that they can have fun with

17:09

it. And so it was it was cool. I was like, yeah,

17:12

but it was wild to be like

17:14

this silly thing. You

17:16

know, Serena Williams, the

17:19

cast of Hamilton, cast of S&L, you know. I

17:22

mean, the ultimate. Have you ever met

17:24

Beyonce or anyone has front? Anyone

17:27

has her team ever reached out?

17:31

No, no. Beyonce is

17:34

so can live in her own world. Like,

17:37

I don't think she's on her own, literally

17:39

her own planet,

17:40

like her own air. Yeah, she doesn't

17:42

run her own Instagram. Like,

17:45

she doesn't need to look at social media ever, you

17:47

know. And so strangely, yeah.

17:50

Strangely, yeah. But but I did

17:53

accidentally put the song back into the charts.

17:56

So

17:57

it was like back

17:59

on the billboards. because of the challenge.

18:04

Yeah, I got her

18:06

paid is what I'm saying. I'm

18:10

sure she was happy. I'm sure. And

18:13

similar to the drop

18:14

challenge, though, you're always, you know,

18:16

doing something fun, grooving

18:18

with your grandmother. And

18:20

you talk a lot about being a shy kid.

18:22

But did you always like to dance or

18:24

did you always know how to dance?

18:27

My grandma put me in dance

18:30

classes when I was a kid, but

18:32

it was like ballet and stuff

18:34

like that, like modern or whatever, just

18:38

to try to make sure I had friends.

18:41

And yeah,

18:42

and then in high school, I was

18:44

on the cheerleading squad. So

18:48

yeah, there was always dance in my life and

18:52

physically speaking

18:55

and I express myself

18:57

physically a lot because, you

18:59

know, I didn't always know the language of the

19:01

country that I was living in. So

19:04

like I learned English by watching Scooby

19:06

Doo. And you could probably tell

19:09

when you watch my stand up like, oh, the

19:11

way she who who the way she

19:13

talks with. Oh, my God. Like, you know, always

19:16

sounding like I'm about to cry a little bit.

19:19

Um,

19:20

so dance is a big part of my

19:22

life

19:23

because it is using my body to

19:25

sort of like connect with people. And

19:28

yeah, and it translates into my stand

19:30

up comedy, too, I think. Was

19:33

there a moment or a certain,

19:36

you know, time period in your career

19:38

you felt like people actually started to get you,

19:41

whether you were, you know, emulating a character

19:44

or telling a story, but the people finally

19:46

start to get you as as a comedian?

19:49

Yeah, that's a cool

19:51

question. I'm good at

19:53

improv and improvising

19:55

and making a situation

19:58

that could seem really scary.

19:59

hard and turning it funny,

20:02

you know, and the

20:04

way that

20:05

I was able to showcase that was, you

20:08

know, in 2019,

20:09

I did a stand up set during a 7.1

20:12

magnitude earthquake. And

20:15

I, I

20:16

happened to get video of it.

20:18

So I posted it and that also went

20:20

viral. But I think that's when people

20:22

started understanding, oh my goodness, okay,

20:24

this comedian can really find

20:26

the light in wild situations,

20:29

you know? Yeah.

20:31

And because I was able to make sure the

20:33

audience was okay, but also continue

20:35

making them laugh through it. Yeah. That

20:37

is the true essence of me. I thrive in chaos

20:40

because I grew up in it.

20:44

Since you've been doing this for a while, do

20:47

you feel like there's any differences between,

20:49

you know, making things for the internet versus

20:51

like when you actually go to start writing

20:54

material for stand up?

20:56

Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. Sometimes

20:59

a longer bit might

21:01

be birthed out of something

21:03

I tweeted online or

21:06

like an idea I

21:08

talked to my audience about on Instagram

21:10

or something, then I'll polish

21:12

it later on by, you know, adding

21:15

the punch lines and building

21:17

the world around it more four stage. Yeah.

21:19

So they do go hand in hand sometimes,

21:23

but yeah, the way you deliver

21:25

jokes online sometimes is different

21:28

than in person because,

21:29

you know, you

21:32

have to think, oh, Instagram, TikTok audiences,

21:34

they, they have like a shorter attention span, for

21:36

example, it's gotta be a minute long,

21:38

you know,

21:39

you gotta enter with something that'll hook them,

21:41

you know, so yeah. Now

21:45

I'm curious, since you brought up this earthquake, besides

21:47

that, what's the wildest thing that's ever happened

21:49

during a set? It's

21:52

hard to beat a 7.1 magnitude

21:54

earthquake. I've

21:56

had all kinds of people. I've had people

21:59

from during same.

21:59

Patrick's Day, really, really drunk, you

22:02

know, I've had I mean,

22:04

mostly it's just drunk people. Thankfully,

22:07

no one's really gotten hurt during a comedy

22:09

show that I

22:11

was performing on. Or, you

22:14

know, during my tour. So yeah, probably

22:17

just probably the earthquake topset.

22:19

I mean, that's a very

22:20

big thing. So yeah.

22:23

Yeah, I jinxed it. Next

22:25

time it's going to be a different natural disaster.

22:31

For you and so many other comedians,

22:33

though, I think it feels like a common theme that, you

22:35

know, there's a form of escapism

22:38

that, you know, comes through in comedy, a lot

22:40

of

22:40

the hardships, whether

22:42

obviously, you know, you handling that amazingly

22:44

with the earthquake during set or just,

22:46

you know, life happenings and

22:49

things that occur, and

22:51

turning that into some kind

22:53

of, you know, comedic gold. Does

22:56

a lot of your material still come from that

22:58

place? Or where are you finding new material

23:00

from?

23:01

Yeah, for sure. Like, I feel

23:04

most in, in tune

23:06

with comedy when I'm sad,

23:08

unfortunately. So

23:11

when a ton of stuff is going on,

23:13

like caretaking for my grandma

23:16

the other night, I just took her to the emergency

23:18

room, or I'm trying to get my husband on

23:20

my health insurance. But in

23:23

trying to prove that we're married, getting

23:26

a copy of our marriage certificate, for example,

23:28

we found out that me

23:30

and my husband, because we've been married seven

23:32

years.

23:33

But in trying to do this, for example,

23:36

we found out we're actually not married.

23:39

Oh, wow. Because which

23:41

is so us because we forgot to turn

23:44

in our marriage certificate after

23:46

our wedding. So stuff

23:48

like that, you know, just inherently

23:51

becomes comedy, and I'm able

23:53

to write

23:53

about, but, you know, all these

23:56

things are stressful to be going through, like

23:58

my mom's, my mom's Psychosis

24:00

is off the charts right now. She has

24:02

schizophrenia. But in

24:05

dealing with all the things, like I said, I thrive

24:07

in chaos. I always want to make sure

24:09

everyone's okay. And a big way

24:11

I do that is finding the funnies,

24:14

even during all the

24:16

wild stuff. And so it's

24:19

where a lot of my material comes from,

24:21

is I think empathy for humans

24:24

and trying to take a moment in

24:26

every chaotic or sad situation

24:29

to be like, wait,

24:30

but that is pretty funny. That

24:33

we haven't been married this whole time. This

24:36

whole time we've just been boyfriend and girlfriend. You

24:39

know, our

24:41

sex got hotter for no reason, now

24:44

that we're boyfriend and girlfriend again, things

24:46

like that.

24:48

I love that. So

24:50

tell me what's coming up next for you

24:52

both, professionally

24:54

and just in your own life.

24:56

Yes. So yeah, my new hour

24:59

of stand up I'm touring right

25:01

now. And

25:04

then I'll be doing theater tours in the fall

25:06

with it too. And

25:09

I'm developing a show right now

25:11

with FX. Amazing. Yeah.

25:14

And so I, yeah, you

25:16

know, just

25:17

more ways of putting my

25:18

story out there so that

25:20

hopefully people can also

25:23

feel seen. Yeah. Yeah.

25:25

Thank you so much for doing this. That was so much fun. Thank

25:28

you for having me.

25:32

In Her Shoes is hosted by me, Lindsay Pupils.

25:35

Our lead producer is Taka Zen. Our

25:37

engineer is Brandy McFarland. I'm

25:40

Lindsay Pupils and thank you so much for listening.