0:05

by now, you have probably heard

0:07

the news sunny balwani was

0:10

convicted of 12 counts of criminal

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fraud minutes after the verdict

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came down, i got call from my colleague,

0:16

brad milky, inviting me to come on

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his daily news, podcast, start

0:21

here and talk through the jury's

0:23

decision i want to share a with

0:25

you and well, you're listening click

0:28

the link that are episode description to follow

0:30

start here and get a wrap up

0:32

of the day's headlines each morning

0:35

here's my conversation with brad

0:42

i

0:43

know that we made so many mistakes on

0:46

this front but we were trying

0:48

to take this forward and at that time

0:52

the

0:52

home

0:55

said the downfall of theranos wasn't

0:57

her fault, it was her business partners, that's why

0:59

her mega blood testing company had failed and

1:01

why it's incredible claims of using just a a drop

1:04

blood reliable your

1:06

local drugstore the

1:08

jury did not buy excuse and earlier

1:10

this year convicted, her of fraud will

1:13

of course, at business partner then turned around and said

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none of this was elizabeth holmes the guilty,

1:17

one yesterday, a different

1:19

jury rejected his story as well and

1:22

convicted sunny balwani in one of the biggest

1:24

medical fraud cases in recent history

1:26

nobody has covered story

1:28

and these as closely as abc's, rebecca

1:30

jarvis of the podcast, the

1:33

dropout and rebecca actually since last

1:35

spoke the snow hit series on hulu as

1:37

well so i be plugging that significant

1:39

was this verdict yesterday it's

1:41

really interesting brad, thanks

1:43

for the plug, by way really interesting

1:45

when you look at the

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difference in outcomes of these two

1:49

trials, in the case of sunny bell wanni

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he has been convicted of twelve

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counts all the counts of fraud against him

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but in the case of elizabeth home she was only convicted

1:58

of for and was too

1:59

with the same

2:00

it's a fraud that not only defrauding

2:03

investors nearly a billion dollars but they

2:05

have the patience in harm's way and the north

2:07

me back and she said i

2:09

am so sorry that's not good there could

2:12

be a tumor growing somewhere and

2:14

will never forget that they both of them

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were accused of defrauding both patience

2:18

and investors with their blood testing technologies

2:21

with claims that they lied to

2:23

investors as well as to patience about

2:25

the capacity of their nose blood tests

2:28

well in the case of sunny about one eats

2:30

a jury has now decided that yes

2:32

there was conspiracy to defraud book

2:35

the group don't believe

2:37

the actions intended to hurt

2:39

patients

2:40

the want

2:42

huddle i could not get passed

2:44

on there

2:45

where's my case of elizabeth holmes jurors

2:47

decided that they could only convict

2:49

her on the counts involving investors and

2:51

some of those council or even dropped because

2:53

the jury

2:53

the couldn't come to a conclusion as you

2:55

say so the guy was gonna ask this means

2:57

they were conspiring together or if

3:00

these two different juries are saying these are really two different

3:02

sets of crimes here

3:03

bred originally sunnyvale bonnie and

3:05

elizabeth holmes were charged together as coconspirators

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they were supposed to be tried together as well

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instead their trials were severed

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and they were severed because of these claims

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elizabeth holmes made that she was

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abused by sunny about wanting out be their

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claims that he has firmly denied

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they did not come up at his trial but

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for her during her seven days

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of testimony they were a big portion

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of what she talked about in his

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case he did not take the stand

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he faced the identical case

3:35

from prosecutors the government brought the exact

3:38

same witnesses to the sand to testify

3:40

against him the biggest difference is

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that he didn't take the san to

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say i didn't do this or or

3:46

or to to raise his own objections

3:48

to the claims against him if

3:51

ironic brad if you look at

3:53

these two cases the pointing of the

3:55

fingers that each other because when i spoke

3:57

to just cooper smith the lead

3:59

attorney for bonnie bonnie years

4:01

ago immediately after the charges

4:03

were brought against the to does he feel and

4:05

any way that he was duped by elizabeth

4:07

home

4:08

that's not what is

4:10

going on here

4:11

back then the word was no

4:13

she didn't do something about lonnie

4:16

they were in this together this was a business

4:18

failure and they both were mistaken

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but when you look at how both

4:23

of their attorneys pursuit the trials

4:25

once they were severed it was very

4:28

much a well he

4:30

made the mistake he made the earth he may

4:32

be to our seat at my seats hospital

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you're like they were in on us together and now he sent

4:36

out on are obsolete the whole defense was i

4:38

actually see was the masterminds here he to

4:40

know what was going

4:41

exactly and there were a lot of emails

4:43

that the court read and that will read aloud

4:45

for example there was this one at sunday's

4:47

trials where they presented a text

4:50

message from sony to elizabeth and

4:52

it read i am responsible for everything

4:54

up their nose well that was in

4:56

the context of a lot of

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other text messages but it's very

5:00

likely made a big difference with jurors at

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this trials and when you think

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about these two the ball

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for both charged with be identical

5:09

crimes and you think about a jury

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who is supposed to know nothing

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about any of their backstories and

5:16

they're shown these things like in elizabeth

5:18

holmes case pictures of her so

5:21

much younger than him supposedly having

5:23

to rely on him for his expertise

5:26

you can imagine where the jury

5:28

may have found that presentation

5:31

more sympathetic than sunnyvale bonnie's

5:33

who had experience maybe

5:36

he should have known bad

5:37

and how the outcome could

5:39

be different as a result we've

5:42

made it possible

5:44

the run

5:45

comprehensive laboratory tests from

5:48

a tiny sample there is very likely

5:50

jail time coming brad but there's also these

5:52

appeals and then there's also what it

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says for the broader business world and

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one of the the very important lines

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that has drawn the fan is

6:01

that you can't lie

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yeah so much about this is defrauding investors

6:05

right defrauding people that you legally oh

6:07

money and promises to however he also

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always think of the broader general public here and the patients

6:12

that were counting on the stock to work as well and

6:14

these trials but perhaps not the story rebecca jarvis

6:16

host of the dropout thanks a lot

6:18

the you brad

6:22

by the way dropout fans if you're into a quick

6:24

breakdown today's news with great interviews clarifying

6:27

reporting like this including from our own rebecca

6:29

jarvis on all the biggest business stories

6:31

of the decks to get starts here for

6:33

every listening now i'm bread milky thanks

6:35

for listening