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2:27

Hello everyone and welcome to the

2:29

history of Byzantium episode 270,

2:31

loss, suffering and

2:36

enslavement. Today

2:39

we're going to talk about the very real experience

2:42

of living in a city which was sacked

2:45

by an enemy army.

2:46

It felt only right to address

2:49

this type of suffering in the wake of the

2:51

fall of Constantinople. As

2:54

you can imagine, this is not an episode

2:56

for young ears. As

3:04

we've discussed before, the only real account

3:06

we have

3:07

of the Byzantine experience of the sack

3:09

of their capital comes from

3:12

Niketis Coniates. So

3:14

although we will touch on that today,

3:17

we will be looking further afield at the wider

3:19

Roman story of suffering in

3:21

order to understand the horrors which

3:23

people went through.

3:26

So how do we find people

3:29

who lived through a sack and wrote about

3:31

it?

3:32

Many people were of course killed

3:34

or enslaved in these encounters,

3:37

so we need people who were allowed to

3:40

live, who would be allowed to

3:42

stay behind or who

3:44

would be taken away but then

3:47

found a way back to the empire.

3:49

Sadly we don't have any miraculous

3:52

escape stories to pass on, but

3:55

we do have a certain category of people who

3:57

made it back from their incarceration.

3:59

When Roman cities were sacked,

4:02

high-profile figures were often kept alive

4:05

for the ransom value which they possessed.

4:08

Those sacking a city often tried

4:10

to maximise their profits by selling

4:12

captives back to the Empire.

4:15

Or,

4:16

alternatively, military personnel

4:19

could be swapped in prisoner

4:21

exchanges.

4:23

The problem for us is that soldiers rarely

4:25

write histories, and few letter

4:28

collections survive.

4:31

It wasn't really in a general's interests

4:33

anyway to discuss his failure

4:36

and humiliation. So we

4:38

are looking for administrators or ecclesiastical

4:41

figures who survived and managed to

4:43

put their experience down on paper.

4:47

Historian Adam Goldwyn identified

4:49

three such figures in his book, Witness

4:52

Literature, in Byzantium, narrating

4:55

slaves, prisoners and refugees.

4:59

I'm going to take you through their stories to learn

5:01

about their experience of loss, suffering

5:04

and enslavement.

5:05

And we begin, predictably,

5:08

with Nikitas Kaniates.

5:16

We already know about our historian's

5:19

fate during the sack of 1204. He

5:22

managed to leave with his family, who,

5:24

despite being harassed, got out

5:26

of the city and made their way to safety.

5:30

They came to rest at Selimbria, a

5:32

town about 44 miles west of

5:34

the capital on the Sea of Marmara.

5:37

Either they had some property there,

5:39

or they had friends or relatives who did. The

5:43

Kaniates family would remain there for the next two

5:45

years.

5:47

This doesn't sound like a fate remotely

5:50

comparable to someone dragged from their home into

5:52

a life of slavery in a foreign land. But

5:54

before we get to more distressing tales,

5:57

we should start here and acknowledge the tremendous loss

5:59

of the land.

5:59

loss which Coniartes

6:02

suffered.

6:03

He was from a prosperous provincial

6:05

family, his was not a rags to riches

6:07

story, but he had risen to the highest

6:10

civilian post in the land,

6:12

still an amazing achievement in a highly

6:14

competitive line of work. He

6:17

had whispered in the ears of emperors, he

6:19

was held in high esteem and

6:21

owned at least two mansions in

6:24

Constantinople.

6:26

Now all of that was gone,

6:29

his city was in ruins, his

6:31

career was over,

6:33

his prestige was gone. Perhaps

6:37

it's better not to think about rich, obeying

6:39

Coniartes at this moment, maybe you

6:42

should think about yourself,

6:44

what if tomorrow your world

6:46

fell apart? What

6:49

if you lost your job, not because you were

6:51

fired, but because the company you work

6:53

for ceased to exist

6:55

and there was no prospect of it being replaced

6:59

and your home was taken from you and

7:01

all the social and vocational credit you

7:03

had built up became worthless.

7:07

Where would you go? What

7:08

would you do? It's

7:10

hard for us to comprehend

7:12

the sense of loss that would accompany the obliteration

7:15

of your public identity in this way.

7:19

A man who people had come to for favours

7:21

every day was now dependent

7:24

on the charity of others.

7:27

As you may recall the farmers by the roadside

7:29

mocked him as he went past, his

7:32

misery was a source of amusement to

7:34

those who had watched in horror as the

7:37

Latins laid waste

7:38

their capital.

7:41

Coniartes was filled with despair which

7:44

is reflected in his history, he

7:46

would continue to drift as a refugee

7:48

for the next few years. His home

7:51

in Salimbria was taken from him so

7:53

he returned to Constantinople but

7:55

was not welcomed by the new regime. He

7:58

didn't speak any Western language.

7:59

languages which was pretty much a

8:02

prerequisite for serving the new Latin

8:04

Empire.

8:06

So, Coniates and his family migrated

8:08

to Nicaea where a new Roman

8:11

government was forming and though

8:13

Nicetus was given work by that administration

8:15

it was as a speechwriter

8:18

rather than as an administrator.

8:21

Again,

8:22

people mocked him.

8:23

After all he was in power when

8:25

the greatest disaster in Roman history took place.

8:28

He was discredited and was left

8:31

to write begging letters to old friends

8:33

and acquaintances, none of whom could restore

8:35

him to his former status. His

8:38

family lived in wooden accommodation

8:40

on the lakeside for the rest of his

8:42

days. Again,

8:46

it's hardly the story of immense suffering

8:48

that many others had to bear, but it is

8:50

a story about a man whose certainties were

8:52

all taken away by the sack. We

8:56

have to imagine how we would feel if

8:58

say the banking system collapsed

9:01

tomorrow and our life savings

9:03

were wiped away in a moment. All

9:06

the hard work we had put into building our

9:08

safety net destroyed

9:11

and few are offering sympathy for

9:14

our plight.

9:18

Seeing your home,

9:19

your hometown and the pride of your nation

9:22

destroyed

9:24

is one that leaves an existential sense

9:26

of loss on those it touches.

9:29

Understandably, Coniatis

9:31

was never the same again.

9:40

Our next eyewitness to a sack is

9:43

Eustathius or Eustathios

9:46

of Thessaloniki,

9:48

who you may recall was the Bishop

9:50

of that city when the Normans attacked

9:52

it in 1185. This was in episode 252 of the podcast.

9:54

The Normans sent

9:59

weakness in the power vacuum which followed

10:02

the death of Manuil Comninos, and

10:05

dragging a fake air to the Byzantine throne

10:07

with them, they sailed for the Empire's

10:09

second city. Eustathius

10:12

refused to abandon the city in its hour

10:14

of need and attempted to support

10:16

the defenders.

10:17

But they

10:20

failed and the bishop was forced to watch

10:22

in horror as the enemy army poured

10:24

through the gates.

10:26

This is what he says happened

10:28

next.

10:30

The high-ranking residents of the

10:32

city were all huddled in the citadel

10:35

when the breakthrough happened, but

10:37

realizing that they couldn't survive there, they

10:39

dispersed. As he

10:41

made his way down through the streets, the

10:44

bishop saw citizens committing suicide

10:46

rather than fall into Latin hands.

10:50

People were jumping off buildings or down

10:52

wells as their stunned prelate

10:54

passed by. Eustathius

10:57

headed for his home, the bishop's

11:00

official residence, which was

11:02

only natural but may also have

11:04

been about self-preservation. As

11:07

we discussed earlier, high-ranking Byzantines

11:10

had the potential to avoid being

11:12

killed if they could demonstrate quickly

11:14

to invading soldiers who they were.

11:17

The city's bishop was an obvious figure

11:20

to ransom back to Constantinople and

11:22

so Eustathios was best off at his home

11:25

in his vestments or other easily

11:27

identifiable clothes and

11:30

flanked by his staff.

11:33

Norman troops soon arrived and

11:36

the assembled clergy were taken outside.

11:38

Eustathios flinched at the field

11:41

of raised swords facing him and

11:43

as he moved men jabbed at them, hit

11:45

them and mocked them.

11:47

The soldiers enjoyed pretending

11:49

to rear their weapon for a stab as

11:52

they led the priests to the city's

11:54

Hippodrome.

11:56

There he was handed over to

11:58

one of the Norman captains in the city's who took

12:00

charge of their care and led them down

12:02

to the harbour.

12:03

They were led on horseback, which

12:05

was a mixed blessing. The

12:07

bishop could now see clearly

12:10

over his captors to the immense suffering

12:12

which his flock were experiencing. Dead

12:15

bodies littered the roadside, while

12:18

the beatings and killings taking place

12:20

further away were now visible.

12:25

The clergy were loaded onto one of the Norman

12:27

ships alongside many other

12:29

captives all weeping and wailing.

12:31

They were held there for several

12:33

days, where they could barely sleep

12:36

and had nothing to eat. Eventually,

12:39

as the sack settled down, they were led

12:41

back to the patriarch's residence.

12:45

The Norman commander of the expedition took

12:47

them off the ship because he did not intend to

12:50

sell them back to the Byzantines, not

12:52

yet anyway. The Normans were here

12:54

to occupy the city and they wanted the bishop's

12:56

help in calming the terrified

12:59

populace.

13:00

Eustathius and his staff were forced

13:03

to live in the garden for a week, with

13:05

Latin soldiers using the same location

13:08

as their toilet. Eventually,

13:11

Eustathius managed to negotiate with

13:13

his captors who gave him a large

13:15

amount of money,

13:17

the purpose of which was to buy food

13:19

for the remaining population of the city.

13:22

The Norman occupation would end up

13:24

lasting for three months, and so

13:26

they had to provide for the needs of the

13:28

remaining Roman citizens. Finally

13:31

released from his confinement, Eustathius

13:34

was able to move about the streets, where

13:37

he could now witness the pitiful

13:39

state that his people were left in.

13:42

After securing the city and

13:44

its major buildings, the Latins were

13:46

now going house to house, turfing

13:48

people out and emptying

13:51

their homes of anything of value.

13:53

They tortured people who they suspected

13:55

of having hidden their valuables. They

13:58

killed domestic animals for

13:59

fun and then arranged corpses

14:02

in quote-unquote amusing positions,

14:05

people and animals placed in intimate

14:08

embrace.

14:10

The bishop writes about clergy being killed

14:12

and churches desecrated. He

14:14

concedes that some churches were protected but

14:16

others were targeted by thugs who

14:18

slashed at icons and urinated

14:21

on altars.

14:23

He talks about rape, of

14:25

married women and of nuns, of

14:27

gang rapes.

14:30

He claims that during the day the officers

14:32

could bring their men under control but at night it

14:34

was impossible to keep everyone quiet. The

14:38

shrine of Saint Demetrius, the patron

14:40

saint of the city, was targeted hacked

14:43

to pieces and all its precious ornaments

14:45

looted. As

14:48

he passed through the streets distributing food

14:51

he saw parishioners living in the gutter or

14:54

alleyways,

14:55

malnourished and poorly clothed.

14:58

The Normans were sleeping in their homes.

15:01

Many people were forced to beg their captors

15:03

for coins or crumbs. Some

15:05

had their hair or beards cut off

15:08

as a further humiliation.

15:13

The Normans were gone though

15:15

after three months.

15:17

As you may recall their attempt to advance

15:19

on Constantinople.

15:21

In the wake of Andronicus's death was

15:23

thwarted. The Romans counterattacked

15:26

and swiftly drove the Latins away. The

15:29

Thessalonica was quickly abandoned.

15:32

The few unfortunate Latins who lingered

15:34

too long were beaten to death by

15:37

the revenge hungry citizenry. The

15:42

sack of the city was obviously a grim affair

15:45

but many escaped the worst of its depredations.

15:49

Large numbers of Thessalonians

15:51

had fled the city when news reached them

15:53

of the Normans approach. While

15:55

those who stayed behind avoided being sold

15:58

into slavery because of the way

15:59

the war played out.

16:02

Eustathius, like Coniates before

16:04

him, escaped personal harm

16:08

and as a celibate bishop he had no

16:10

immediate family to fret about.

16:13

But witnessing these horrors did have

16:15

a profound effect on him.

16:17

Like Coniates he

16:19

was humiliated and discredited by

16:22

what had happened.

16:24

He was God's representative in

16:26

the city and the divine powers

16:28

that be had abandoned him in his

16:30

hour of need. He

16:33

had encouraged men to stay and fight and

16:35

then had to come face to face

16:38

with their mourning families whose lives

16:40

were being violated by the enemy. Eustathius

16:45

already had a difficult relationship with many

16:47

important sections of the city's populace.

16:50

That would only get worse after this.

16:54

He wrote up his account of what took place in

16:57

a sort of sermon which he delivered to a crowd

16:59

of people a couple of months

17:01

after the Normans had left. Many

17:04

of those listening had been absent when the worst

17:06

happened and so Eustathius was keen

17:09

to present himself in a positive light.

17:13

How did he explain the immense suffering

17:15

of those he was meant to protect?

17:18

It was their sins which had brought

17:20

this calamity down upon them.

17:23

Not just those who were killed or tormented

17:26

but everyone, all the people of

17:28

the city had sinned repeatedly

17:30

and God had delivered a sharp

17:32

rebuke.

17:34

He warned them that similar punishment

17:36

might come again if this sinful

17:38

behavior remained unchecked

17:41

but one suspects his words

17:44

rang with a certain hollowness around

17:46

the churches of the Empire's Second

17:49

City.

17:56

As you can see we've been moving

17:58

back in time to fight. find our witnesses

18:01

and we now move back a considerable distance

18:04

to the early 10th century.

18:06

We are also escalating in

18:08

terms of horror and our final

18:11

story is more distressing and brings

18:13

us face to face with the really ugly realities

18:16

of enslavement.

18:17

Coincidentally it involves the

18:19

previous sack of Thessaloniki

18:22

which took place in 904

18:25

during the reign of Leo the sixth.

18:29

The Romans had just turned the tide in

18:31

the battle with the Caliphate. Raids

18:34

into Anatolia were starting to become

18:36

easier to repel but

18:39

at sea they were harsher

18:41

than ever. You may recall that Arab

18:44

pirates had seized the island of Crete

18:46

bringing seaborne raids to the shores

18:49

of the Aegean.

18:51

The man who led this particular attack was

18:53

also called Leo, a Roman

18:56

sailor from Atalia who had

18:58

converted to Islam in captivity.

19:01

He knew the Empire's weaknesses

19:03

and was now in charge of the Syrian fleet

19:06

based at Tripoli. In

19:08

the summer of 904 he chased

19:11

the Imperial Navy back towards Constantinople

19:14

after a confrontation at the Hellespont.

19:17

Leo now knew that the coast was

19:20

literally clear. No one

19:22

could stop him from descending on Thessaloniki

19:25

and assaulting the walls.

19:27

This is what he did and

19:29

after a brief siege his Marines broke through

19:32

the gates.

19:33

The unprepared Thessalonians were shocked

19:35

at what was happening.

19:39

An account of what took place was written

19:41

by a certain John Kaminiatis,

19:44

a Chamberlain in the Bishop's household.

19:48

His slightly less exalted

19:50

status and the fact that he recorded his

19:52

thoughts in a letter meant that

19:54

he could be more candid than our previous

19:56

two witnesses.

19:59

scribes with an eloquent horror

20:02

the first few moments of the sack. As

20:05

the gates break open and families

20:07

began to lose control of themselves,

20:11

weeping and wailing,

20:13

but also hugging their children,

20:15

utterly despairing at the thought of being

20:18

separated from them, he

20:20

puts words into the mouths of horrified

20:22

fathers asking aloud, Was

20:25

it for this that I reared you diligently?

20:28

For this that I entrusted you to the care

20:30

of teachers and struggled to make it

20:32

possible for you to distinguish yourself

20:35

among your contemporaries.

20:38

He watched husbands telling their wives

20:40

to run, saying goodbye

20:42

forever.

20:43

Again he imagines the dialogue,

20:46

We can no longer share our lives

20:49

until we end our days.

20:50

Would that we had never set eyes on these

20:53

children who now stand round us?

20:55

Would that our own hands had laid them in

20:57

the grave and that they had not been

20:59

preserved to serve as hapless

21:02

slaves to these wild beasts?

21:06

Brother ran into brother, friend

21:08

saw friend, each crying and

21:10

screaming at the prospect of separation

21:14

or worse. He

21:16

says, Simply by virtue of the

21:18

immense number of individual laments

21:21

the air was filled with a meaningless babble

21:23

of voices as though sheep had

21:25

been penned up for slaughter and were

21:27

crying out in wild confusion.

21:31

Some began to run off in the direction of

21:33

their homes, others leapt inside

21:36

churches hoping for sanctuary.

21:38

Many tried to escape, but

21:40

great crushes took place at

21:43

the city gates as people trampled

21:45

each other in their terror.

21:49

John served the bishop along with his father and

21:52

two brothers and like Eustathius,

21:54

two hundred and eighty years later had

21:57

taken up refuge in the Citadel.

22:00

Two others joined them,

22:02

and they decided as a small group of clergy

22:05

to stick together and attempt to negotiate

22:07

with the first enemy soldiers they encountered.

22:10

They had some cash on them and could offer

22:12

more.

22:14

They huddled in one of the city's defensive

22:16

towers and waited.

22:18

Less fortunate citizens stood

22:20

outside, and when a group of Ethiopian

22:23

soldiers, as he calls them, appeared, everyone

22:27

begged for mercy.

22:28

The Muslim troops were in the first flush

22:30

of excitement, though, and simply hacked away

22:33

at the defenseless crowd who fell

22:35

to the ground dead.

22:37

Horrified, John made a big

22:39

show of the gold he was carrying to the

22:42

soldiers until they calmed down.

22:45

Eventually, through hand gestures,

22:47

the priests convinced the Saracen forces

22:49

not to kill them.

22:51

They handed over all the precious items they

22:53

carried and indicated that there was

22:55

more where that came from, if

22:58

they were allowed to live. The

23:00

enemy troops formed an escort and began

23:02

to lead them down into the city.

23:06

The walk down to the harbour was

23:08

itself a harrowing experience. First,

23:11

another group of Ethiopian, i.e.

23:13

dark-skinned soldiers from somewhere

23:16

in the caliphate, came upon

23:18

them and tried to attack them.

23:20

Their escort had to ward them off, but

23:22

not before they took some nasty blows.

23:26

Next, they were led to a church and thrown in

23:28

with a crowd who was seeking sanctuary, while

23:30

their captors took a breather.

23:33

But again, another group of soldiers came

23:36

running in with their blood up and began

23:38

to slash and slaughter the unarmed civilians.

23:41

Moving swiftly on, the group reached

23:44

the harbour where their captors found a

23:46

comrade who spoke Greek. He

23:49

explained the deal to them,

23:50

take us to where you hid all your money and possessions.

23:54

If they are there, then you will live

23:56

and be ransomed back to your government.

23:58

But if the gold isn't

25:54

and

26:00

drawn.

26:01

Dehydration was a major concern

26:03

for all involved.

26:05

I'm sure we've all been in intense situations,

26:08

even if it's just a sporting contest

26:11

where first builds up quickly. Imagine

26:14

the intensity of what John has just been

26:16

through for hour after hour without a drop

26:19

of water. He describes everyone

26:21

he could see as desperate for

26:23

a single drop. They begged

26:25

their captives to let them drink sewer water,

26:28

even though they knew it might make them sick.

26:31

Wounded captives were thrown into

26:33

their place of confinement, and those

26:35

who made too much noise were simply

26:38

killed to shut them up.

26:42

For ten days, these clergymen remained

26:44

in the same spot, waiting for the Saracens

26:47

to empty the city of its wealth.

26:49

Other men appeared and made promises of

26:51

hidden treasure. Those who failed

26:54

to come up with the goods were killed.

26:58

If you've ever wondered who was targeted

27:00

for slavery during these sieges, Karmaniartis

27:04

provides a very clear answer.

27:07

All the prisoners who were not for

27:09

ransom were children or

27:11

young women. There

27:13

was not a single boy who had grown his first

27:16

beard, nor in all those thousands

27:18

was there even one woman of mature

27:20

years.

27:23

This was who made the best slaves and

27:25

would offer the least resistance.

27:28

The Muslim forces divided up those who

27:30

were related to one another so that they

27:33

couldn't travel together. Perhaps

27:36

to break their resistance or to stop

27:38

people advocating loudly for the needs of

27:40

others,

27:41

perhaps to prepare them for a slave's life,

27:44

John muses.

27:46

Only babies, still breastfeeding,

27:49

were left with their mothers. It

27:53

was impossible for anyone who paused

27:55

to consider them individually not

27:57

to break down at the site of their misfortune.

29:54

Lice

30:02

now spread amongst the prisoners, who

30:04

all cried out for help, but

30:06

received nothing but abuse from their captors.

30:13

Their arrival on occupied Crete

30:15

was the first bit of relief they'd had in weeks.

30:18

They were allowed off the ship and led towards

30:20

a river. They all collapsed on

30:22

its banks, gulping fresh water and washing

30:24

themselves.

30:26

The prisoners were allowed to mingle and

30:29

families tearfully reunited, though

30:32

they all knew it wouldn't be for long.

30:35

The next passage is as significant

30:38

as it is heartbreaking.

30:41

Hapless women were wandering about

30:44

with disheveled hair and tear-stained

30:46

eyes, looking around in every direction

30:48

to see which of their children they would

30:51

come across first.

30:53

The children, those that had survived

30:55

the ordeal at sea, were weeping

30:57

in a piteous and heart-rending

30:59

fashion, like tender young

31:01

calves that bellow piteously when

31:04

they are being weaned.

31:07

But what of the others, whose babies had

31:09

perished at sea and who had no

31:12

idea what had happened? How

31:14

shall I describe their state of physical agitation?

31:17

How unable to restrain the

31:19

tide of their emotions, they tore

31:22

their clothes. How they would not

31:24

keep still for a moment, but wandered aimlessly

31:26

around, completely at the mercy of

31:29

their own irrational impulses and

31:31

casting glances in all directions, in

31:34

the hope that they might somewhere catch

31:36

sight of one of their loved ones, or

31:38

contrive to hear from someone

31:40

with first-hand knowledge of their fate, and

31:42

thus bring some relief to the anxiety

31:45

that was preying on their minds.

31:50

Only later in the text does

31:52

Kaminiyati's reveal that his

31:54

wife and children were there on

31:56

the slave ships.

31:58

He was reunited with the slave ships. them at this

32:00

point, and then mentions

32:03

in one line that his third

32:05

child had perished at sea.

32:09

In her excellent book on gender in

32:11

Byzantium, Leonora Neville

32:13

analyzes this passage.

32:16

Kaminiartes is writing this account in

32:18

a letter to a fellow clergyman. She

32:21

points out that as a Byzantine man, John

32:23

was expected to be in control of his emotions,

32:26

and able to deal with things rationally.

32:29

And so he describes the frantic behavior

32:32

of women who've lost their children, but

32:35

doesn't mention men at all.

32:37

And yet we discover later that most likely

32:40

he was one of those parents

32:42

rushing around the riverbank, searching

32:44

the faces of the thousands of young

32:47

people there, desperately hoping

32:49

to see his own child amongst them.

32:55

The captives spent 10 days on

32:58

Crete, with many being sold off to

33:00

the local Muslim population or

33:02

other slave traders.

33:04

John's brother's wife was

33:07

sold off,

33:08

while his brother was waiting there, unable

33:10

to do anything about it.

33:13

The desperation and hopelessness was

33:15

horrendous. John's own family,

33:18

by luck, were not sold at this point.

33:21

They were destined to be, though.

33:24

They had been taken on board a Syrian ship,

33:26

and so, like John, were headed back

33:29

to Tripoli.

33:31

It's not clear if he ever saw

33:33

his wife and children again.

33:36

The flotilla sailed for Cyprus before

33:38

the final leg of the journey to Syria.

33:41

The Romans were paraded before

33:44

the cheering citizens, and then

33:46

separated for good.

33:49

The important hostages were taken to

33:51

a house to await a prisoner

33:53

exchange.

33:56

To add to his suffering, John's

33:58

father died while they died.

33:59

waited there. Drenched

34:02

in mourning, John, his

34:05

brothers,

34:06

and the other senior officials were finally

34:08

moved to Tarsus,

34:10

where they were held, awaiting an exchange

34:12

with the Romans on the borders of Cilicia.

34:16

It was here that Camaniatis

34:19

briefly met another cleric from Cappadocia,

34:22

who he wrote this letter to.

34:24

In it, he praised the Straticos

34:27

of Thessaloniki and his subordinates

34:29

for their valiant attempts to defend the city.

34:33

It was this detail which probably

34:35

persuaded them to take a copy

34:37

of the letter back to Thessalonica

34:39

with them when they were exchanged

34:42

for Muslim officers that autumn,

34:45

a year after the sack of their

34:47

city.

34:50

But the exchange of prisoners broke

34:53

down after five days, as

34:55

best we can tell, so

34:57

we have no idea if John ever made

34:59

it back to Byzantium,

35:01

or if he was settled within the Caliphate

35:04

or sold into slavery.

35:08

It's very hard to absorb the level

35:10

of suffering which he

35:12

and all those he traveled with were

35:14

forced to endure.

35:26

Well, I hope that's cheered you up if

35:28

you were in a bad mood. It's

35:31

the part of history that we never really discuss.

35:34

We always talk about great men who captured

35:36

cities, but we don't dwell on what happens

35:39

to those trapped inside.

35:41

I hope that that helps balance

35:43

out my coverage of the sack of Constantinople.

35:47

I was keen not to perpetuate the myths of

35:49

its horrors, but I also wanted to

35:51

honor the suffering of those who experienced

35:53

it.

35:54

If this is a subject you'd

35:56

like to explore, then Adam Goldwyn's

35:59

book,

35:59

witness literature in Byzantium contrasts

36:03

these experiences with the literature of

36:05

modern tragedies, including

36:08

modern slavery and the Holocaust.

36:10

It's not light reading, obviously,

36:12

and it's also a very academic book, getting

36:15

into the psychology and serious literary

36:18

analysis of those who wrote about these

36:20

horrendous experiences.

36:23

If you'd prefer just a taste of it then check

36:25

out Antony Kordelis' podcast,

36:27

Byzantium and Friends, where he

36:30

interviews Adam in episode 60. That

36:34

is the end of this century of

36:36

narrative at last.

36:39

Over the next couple of months I will have some interesting

36:41

interviews for you, including one next

36:43

week, and then it will be back

36:45

to the newly minted Latin Empire

36:48

to find out what happens next.

36:51

While you're waiting, if you would like some bonus

36:53

content from the history of Byzantium then

36:55

go to patreon.com forward slash

36:58

history of Byzantium and sign

37:00

up there at the $6 level. This will include

37:05

an episode coming up in a couple of weeks where I discuss

37:08

Game of Thrones, historical

37:11

comparisons to Byzantium, and a little

37:14

bit of TV critic-ing

37:16

as well, which

37:18

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