0:00

Hey, it's Kate. We're off

0:02

for Labor Day, but we wanted to remind

0:04

you of this episode that we made in June

0:07

of last year. It's about PFAS,

0:10

the forever chemicals that are all

0:12

around us, in much of our water

0:14

supply, in our clothing, and

0:16

even in our food wrappers. In

0:19

this episode, we look at one town

0:21

in Wisconsin caught in a battle

0:23

over PFAS. Here

0:25

it is.

0:29

Peshtigo, Wisconsin sits on the shores

0:31

of Green Bay. It's a small place. Just

0:34

about 4,000 people live there. On

0:37

its website, the town promises a

0:39

vibrant rural community full of friendly

0:41

people. Our colleague Chris

0:43

Marr visited the town this spring.

0:46

It's a quite beautiful place.

0:48

There are stands of white pine, and the

0:51

shoreline of the bay is very pretty. It's

0:53

made up of these old summer cabins,

0:56

which have now mostly become permanent homes. And

0:59

it's just in this very peaceful, shady

1:02

grove of trees.

1:06

Just outside of Peshtigo is an industrial

1:08

facility set on a big campus.

1:12

380 acres with low-rise buildings and a

1:14

stretch of tarmac, plopped right in

1:16

the middle of the Wisconsin woods.

1:19

It's one of the main employers in the area.

1:21

The facility is operated by a company

1:24

named Johnson Controls, and

1:26

this was the reason Chris was in town. Since

1:30

the early 60s, this facility

1:32

was used to test a firefighting foam,

1:34

and that foam contained something called

1:37

PFAS.

1:40

And PFAS stands for

1:42

per- and polyfluorosubstances,

1:45

and this is a class of thousands of chemicals

1:48

that have been used in industrial processes. They've

1:50

been used in tons of consumer products, from

1:53

nonstick frying pans to Gore-Tex

1:56

hiking boots and all kinds of things.

1:58

Even your grease. free pizza boxes

2:01

and fast food wrappers. No. Even

2:04

cosmetics and dental floss. So

2:06

they're very pervasive in consumer products

2:09

and in industrial uses. They're pretty much everywhere.

2:13

They may be everywhere, but

2:15

PFAS can be dangerous. Some

2:18

people call them forever chemicals because

2:21

they don't break down in nature and accumulate

2:23

over time. Scientists have

2:25

connected PFAS with health problems from

2:28

various types of cancer to high cholesterol

2:31

and thyroid disease.

2:32

And after decades of using PFAS at its

2:34

facility, Johnson Controls said

2:37

it had leached into drinking water in Pestigo

2:39

and the company has taken

2:41

responsibility for that.

2:44

But many residents believe the company

2:46

is to blame for much more.

2:48

They want Johnson Controls to take

2:50

responsibility for the contamination over

2:53

a bigger area and pay for

2:55

a solution.

2:56

So now Pestigo has a fight

2:58

on its hands. I've never

3:01

had a fight with a multinational

3:03

corporation before. You

3:06

know, I've gotten involved because it's

3:09

just wrong what happened.

3:14

Welcome

3:14

to The Journal, our show about

3:16

money, business and power. I'm

3:18

Kate Limar.

3:26

Coming up on the show, one town's

3:29

fight against forever chemicals.

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4:17

Our colleague Chris went to Peshtigo to

4:19

find out more about the town's PFAS contamination

4:22

and how residents are dealing with it.

4:25

One person he spent a lot of time with was

4:27

Doug Ointinger. He's a city

4:29

council member in the city right next to Peshtigo

4:32

called Marinette.

4:32

So the Bay of Green

4:34

Bay is out there and I'm

4:37

a little set back but I

4:39

can see the water from here. And

4:41

we sat around a wooden table and wooden

4:43

chairs and just a

4:45

kind of a dining room set right off his kitchen.

4:47

Yeah. He has a certain

4:50

gravitas. He has a certain deliberate way of

4:52

speaking and he

4:54

doesn't really mince words. You know he tells it the

4:57

way he sees it.

4:58

I can be pretty blunt and

5:00

it's like you don't want that answer. Don't ask

5:03

me that question.

5:05

Doug told Chris that he first

5:07

heard about the PFAS contamination in 2017. That's

5:11

when Johnson Controls told residents

5:13

of Peshtigo that some groundwater

5:15

in the town was contaminated with PFAS.

5:19

For decades, the company had been

5:21

spraying its firefighting foam on its

5:23

campus, which is located in Marinette.

5:26

When the foam washed off, it

5:28

seeped into the surrounding soil and the groundwater.

5:32

That foam contained PFAS.

5:35

And eventually it reached the wells

5:37

of some people in Peshtigo. At

5:39

the time, a Johnson Controls representative

5:42

said the company had been totally transparent

5:45

and would keep people informed.

5:47

It provided bottled water to people whose

5:49

wells were contaminated and promised

5:51

to test other wells in the area.

5:54

At first, Doug didn't think too much of

5:56

it. He thought the company would take care of it soon.

6:00

the right thing. And they

6:02

were surprised that this happened. I

6:06

always considered them, you know,

6:08

a good corporate citizen, which

6:11

I don't anymore.

6:15

But Doug realized that many people

6:17

in the area had no idea they might

6:19

be exposed to contamination. Around

6:22

that time, Doug and his wife joined a community

6:24

garden through a local church about a

6:26

mile from the Johnson Controls facility.

6:29

Doug noticed a shallow well that

6:31

the church used to water the vegetable patch.

6:34

And he thought of the PFAS contamination. At

6:37

a gathering for the garden, he asked about

6:39

it. And I said, oh, by the way, I don't

6:42

know if you use that for watering the garden,

6:46

but because of the contamination, I

6:48

don't think you should probably do that. Everyone

6:52

in that room, probably about 25 people, said,

6:55

what contamination? And

6:57

that's when I knew my

7:00

community had a problem.

7:04

So Doug decided to look into it. He

7:06

started digging through obscure websites to

7:08

find old environmental reports. He

7:10

looked up filings the company had submitted

7:13

to state regulators,

7:14

and he found documents that showed

7:16

the company had known about the PFAS contamination

7:19

for three years before it told state

7:22

authorities, like the Department of Natural

7:24

Resources.

7:25

The law in the state of Wisconsin says you have

7:28

a hazardous spill. You must immediately

7:30

report it to the DNR.

7:32

You didn't report

7:35

it in 2013. You

7:37

say we didn't think it left our property.

7:40

You didn't look. This isn't

7:43

stuff I made up. This isn't speculation.

7:45

These are just the facts. Is there a conspiracy?

7:48

I don't know. But I can tell you this happened and

7:50

then that happened. You can draw your

7:52

own conclusions.

7:54

This March, the Wisconsin attorney

7:56

general sued Johnson Controls for

7:59

allegedly failing.

7:59

to tell state regulators about the PFAS

8:02

contamination.

8:04

In court filings, Johnson Controls

8:06

said the state regulators acted beyond

8:08

their authority and said PFAS

8:11

was not considered a hazardous substance

8:13

when the contamination occurred. A

8:16

Johnson Controls spokeswoman said

8:18

that when the company found PFAS on the

8:20

border of its property in 2016, it reported

8:23

it to the state.

8:27

Doug

8:27

also found a document from an industry

8:29

group that laid out best practices to

8:32

prevent PFAS from getting out into

8:34

the surrounding environment.

8:35

It tells you three

8:38

things. It says,

8:40

oh, never flush this down the sanitary

8:42

sewer because wastewater treatment

8:45

plants can't take care of it. It

8:48

says, always make sure you have proper

8:50

containment so it doesn't get into

8:52

the environment. And it tells

8:54

you, don't use this for training. Use

8:57

some non-P fast foam for training. Well,

9:00

what did you do at the Fire Technology Center?

9:02

You flushed it down the sanitary sewer, you

9:05

washed it into the

9:05

environment and you used it for training

9:08

exercises.

9:10

I don't get angry at corporations

9:14

who bought something and they

9:16

weren't told it was dangerous. I

9:18

only get mad at them once they know that

9:21

they don't do the right thing. And that's

9:23

where I'm at. But like you knew.

9:31

When we asked Johnson Controls about whether

9:33

it follows industry best practices, a

9:36

company spokeswoman said, quote, we

9:38

are proud of the life-saving work we do and

9:40

we always hold ourselves to the highest standards.

9:44

The company has stopped testing firefighting

9:46

foam containing PFAS on open

9:48

ground. While

9:50

Doug was digging through all these documents

9:53

and finding out more about Johnson Controls

9:55

and the contamination, he was letting

9:57

his neighbors know too.

9:59

residents began asking,

10:02

what impact did PFAS have on them

10:04

and their families? That's

10:08

coming up.

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10:51

As Doug was digging into the history of PFAS

10:54

in the area, he shared his findings

10:56

with one of his friends, a woman named

10:58

Cindy Boyle, who lives in Peshtigo.

11:01

She's a bit of a local historian.

11:09

When

11:15

Cindy heard about the PFAS contamination,

11:18

she started to think about how it could have affected

11:20

her life.

11:21

It's terrifying. So

11:24

for me, it went, immediately think about

11:26

your health, and then you

11:28

start connecting the dots, like, oh yeah, I had

11:30

a full thyroidectomy in my 30s. And

11:34

then you find out it was spread on the farm fields, and

11:36

you think about all your family connections that are kidney

11:38

cancer, thyroid disease, thyroidectomy, right?

11:41

That's freaky.

11:44

While there's no way to know whether PFAS

11:46

exposure is connected to Cindy's health issues,

11:49

Chris says there is research that links

11:52

PFAS to health problems.

11:54

The EPA and the CDC

11:57

have said that they're linked to kid kidney,

12:00

prostate, and testicular cancers. They've

12:02

been linked to high cholesterol, thyroid disease,

12:05

decreased fertility, and high blood pressure

12:07

in pregnant women, and even shown to cause or

12:10

potentially lead to other

12:12

problems, such as low birth weight, reduced

12:14

ability to fight infections, and reduced vaccine

12:16

response.

12:17

But Cindy wasn't just worried about her

12:20

own health. Immediately I went

12:22

to our kids because

12:24

there's a lot of science out there that shows when children

12:27

are exposed to PFAS because of the amount of

12:29

water they consume compared to adults.

12:31

It's apparently a much different ratio. And

12:33

their body, and the fact that it's

12:35

a bioaccumulator and their bodies are developing,

12:38

the consequence that it has to children is that

12:40

much greater.

12:41

But we, in that little log cabin right over there where

12:44

it's the shallower well, so

12:46

the first driveway as you pulled in,

12:48

that's where we raised our

12:50

first and second child. And

12:53

I didn't breastfeed, I fed them on

12:55

bottled formula. And

12:58

then you wrestle with that guilt of that, and

13:01

the fear, and this is what I

13:03

mean. This is the only part of it that I feel

13:05

cowardice about is, ugh,

13:09

I just, I know how angry

13:12

this makes me. You've

13:16

got kids. And if I test

13:19

our middle son, and

13:21

it's high, I know what that

13:23

can mean for him for reproduction. I know what that

13:25

can mean for him. I'm

13:28

life-long, and to know we had a part in that. Cindy

13:32

talked about these fears with her sister. She

13:35

said, Cindy, you have so

13:37

much property there. You're self-employed.

13:39

It's such a big part of your retirement strategy.

13:42

You know the, you know what you know, you know the

13:44

health impacts. You're

13:47

either gonna address this now,

13:50

or you're gonna leave it for your kids to deal with.

13:54

That's all she had to say. And I was like, s***.

13:57

With the encouragement of her sister, Cindy

13:59

ran for... local office and won.

14:01

She's now the town chairperson.

14:03

So it has fallen to Cindy to

14:05

address the drinking water contamination.

14:08

And a big point of contention is how

14:10

many people in Pestigo Johnson Controls

14:13

should be helping.

14:14

The company said it contaminated 169

14:17

wells. It says it will pay for solutions

14:19

for those homes.

14:21

Last year, the company settled a class action

14:23

lawsuit over the contamination for $15

14:26

million. It did not admit

14:28

wrongdoing.

14:30

But the state of Wisconsin did separate testing

14:32

in Pestigo and found about 300

14:34

more contaminated wells.

14:37

Johnson Controls says it's not responsible

14:39

for those.

14:40

Now, Cindy holds town halls

14:43

where residents can debate this issue.

14:45

Chris went to one,

14:46

and a lawyer representing the facility was

14:48

there too.

14:50

So there were about three dozen

14:52

residents from the town of Pestigo in

14:54

this meeting in an older kind of

14:56

looking municipal building. Cindy

14:59

Boyle ran that meeting. And then

15:01

residents,

15:04

you know, there

15:12

was a time for open comment and residents stood up

15:14

and voiced their concerns

15:16

about the contamination on their property. And

15:20

many talked about the dissatisfaction they have

15:22

with how the company is handling things.

15:25

My wealth in Chantalmy

15:27

is double documentation from two tests.

15:31

I have received nothing. I've been paying

15:33

out of pocket for $200

15:35

a month for bottled water. The

15:38

last straw I had was when my baby grandson

15:40

was coming to stay at my house and I could not give

15:43

him a bath in my bathtub because

15:45

I didn't know how to contaminate

15:46

him. There were definitely emotions in the room. I mean,

15:49

there were people, this is a really

15:51

deeply sensitive issue, particularly

15:54

when it comes to the health of your children or grandchildren.

15:56

I think there are probably few

15:59

issues that can be as upsetting to people.

16:02

You tried to get bottled water, or you could get reimbursed

16:04

for our water, and they said nothing.

16:07

J.C.I. wouldn't take my call. Right

16:09

there. Right there. Where

16:11

are you? Right there. This is the drive-thru. Yeah,

16:14

hey, hey, I'm talking to you. Oh, but you put that?

16:16

Why, well how come when I call there, I

16:19

cannot get anybody true in my

16:21

area, how come we never get nothing done on our

16:23

site? I have no idea. Well then why

16:25

are you here?

16:26

To take notes, to learn. All

16:29

right. I'm going to contact my client, so maybe we can

16:31

do a better job if we're not doing it right now. You better start doing a better

16:33

job, you haven't done nothing. Okay.

16:37

Chris reached out to Johnson Controls about

16:39

the PFAS contamination in Pestigo. He

16:42

spoke with Katie McGinty, the company's chief

16:44

sustainability officer. Firstly,

16:46

I'm just going to say again, straight up, we

16:49

take full responsibility for

16:51

any PFAS from our operations. That's

16:54

on us to fix it, that's our job,

16:56

we are fixing it, we're determined to fix it. But

16:59

Katie says Johnson Controls isn't

17:01

responsible for the other wells that the state

17:03

of Wisconsin says are contaminated.

17:06

There's just no correlation

17:09

between our actions

17:12

and the PFAS that has been

17:14

found in the expanded area.

17:16

Are there any other industrial sources there

17:18

nearby? Or could

17:20

it be found? I mean, yes. Oh,

17:23

okay. Yes, and the

17:26

other thing is, because PFAS

17:28

is in just about every consumer

17:30

product,

17:31

certainly

17:33

every industrial process, it genuinely

17:36

is in just about everything,

17:40

your common household products,

17:41

your Scotchgard,

17:44

your Teflon pan,

17:46

your- Gortex jacket. Your

17:49

Gortex jacket. Your dental floss, I

17:51

think. Right, your dentist. It has

17:53

PFAS. And so, especially

17:56

where you have homes,

17:58

as is the case of- in this

18:01

area where you have a

18:03

drinking water well and you have a septic system.

18:06

You know, all

18:09

of that wastewater from

18:11

your dish detergent that has PFAS

18:13

in it, from your bathroom where you

18:15

flossed your teeth with dental floss

18:18

with PFAS, where

18:20

you scrubbed your Teflon pan. That

18:23

all goes into your septic system with

18:25

a drainage field that in many

18:27

cases is very

18:30

close to

18:32

the drinking water wells.

18:35

Chris spoke to PFAS experts who

18:37

questioned whether dental floss and Gore-Tex

18:39

jackets could contaminate water

18:42

at the levels found in Pestigo.

18:47

The federal

18:47

government has growing concerns

18:49

about PFAS contamination. This

18:52

month, the EPA issued a new health

18:54

advisory and it has drastically

18:56

lowered the amount of PFAS that it considers

18:59

safe in drinking water.

19:01

Some environmental groups are estimating

19:03

that more than 100 million people are drinking

19:06

water that has some level of PFAS in

19:08

it. The EPA is requiring much

19:11

greater testing across the whole country for PFAS

19:13

chemicals. And that's gonna happen

19:16

over the next few years. And there's

19:18

in all likelihood gonna be a lot of people concerned

19:20

about whether or not

19:22

my water is safe to drink.

19:25

Back in Pestigo, Doug fears that

19:27

the contamination in his community won't

19:29

be resolved in his lifetime. If

19:32

you have contamination in

19:35

the groundwater on your property today,

19:38

you will still have contamination on your property

19:42

30 years from now. It's not going away.

19:44

It's a hard, hard truth that

19:48

those of us who live, myself

19:50

included, that there's PFAS

19:53

in the groundwater underneath your

19:55

home, it's

19:57

not going away. It's a forever chemical.

20:00

It's still here. None

20:03

of us will live long enough to see it go

20:05

away because they haven't found

20:07

a technology yet that

20:10

can solve that problem.

20:32

This episode originally ran in

20:35

June 2022. Since

20:37

then, the EPA has proposed

20:40

setting federal limits on several

20:42

PFAS compounds in drinking water.

20:45

And some companies are working

20:47

on technology to destroy PFAS.

20:52

Thanks for listening. We'll be back

20:54

tomorrow with a new episode. See

20:57

you then.

20:59

This show is brought to you by BetterHelp. Sometimes

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21:04

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21:09

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