0:00

Previously, on With Great Power.

0:02

Marvel

0:05

had zero value. No one wanted

0:07

Marvel. They had just emerged out of bankruptcy. They had

0:09

no cash. Spiderman was ace

0:12

in the hole.

0:12

Sony had never had that kind of a success before,

0:14

but nobody had. I mean, it was like

0:16

the biggest opening of all time for a very long time.

0:19

So you know, the funny thing is, we

0:21

were so successful that Ikenabi

0:24

sued us. So it was very

0:26

contentious. He developed

0:29

a fire in his belly

0:31

of hatred. I think they were

0:33

willing to do what they needed

0:35

to do in order to claw more of it back.

0:45

In 2003, a young Hollywood

0:47

executive named David Maisel flew

0:50

to Florida for an important meeting at a

0:52

well-known resort.

0:53

It was over lunch at the Mar-a-Lago Country Club.

0:55

I remember Donald Trump came by the

0:57

table to say hi to Ike, and

1:00

Ike introduced me to Mr. Trump

1:02

at the time.

1:03

And I remember Ike saying

1:06

I was from Hollywood. And I think

1:08

this was right before Apprentice started in 2004, and Donald

1:10

saying something about

1:13

his upcoming television show. But

1:15

David wasn't there to rub shoulders with the future

1:18

reality TV star turned president. He

1:21

was there to share an ambitious idea with

1:23

Ike Perlmutter, a member of the

1:25

Mar-a-Lago Country Club and the head

1:28

of Marvel. What was your impression

1:30

of Ike Perlmutter the first time you met him?

1:32

Very positive, actually.

1:34

I respected his directness and his intelligence

1:38

and his frankness. Ike was

1:40

still angry in the aftermath of the Spider-Man

1:42

movie. He felt Sony received

1:44

too much credit and too much money

1:47

for a film based on Marvel's character. And

1:50

he felt that Marvel had gotten screwed.

1:53

For David, Ike's anger was an opportunity.

2:00

David grew up doing theater and reading comics, but

2:02

he ended up going the business route. He

2:05

earned an MBA from Harvard and wrote to

2:07

companies including Disney. He

2:09

dreamed of one day running his own movie

2:11

studio and thought Marvel, which was

2:13

still pursuing licensing deals in the wake of Spider-Man's

2:16

success, could be his vehicle. So

2:19

he made a pitch to Ike. I pitched

2:21

him the idea of Marvel financing

2:24

its own movies, and because

2:26

of that having full green light authority

2:28

and scheduling authority,

2:29

having full financial upside, and

2:33

having full creative control.

2:36

The pitch was simple. If

2:38

Marvel made its own films, it could

2:40

keep all the profits, unlike

2:42

what happened with Spider-Man. And

2:45

it could produce its films with an eye toward maximizing

2:47

toy sales, which was still Ike's favorite

2:49

way to make money. Did

2:52

you think you had a good shot of succeeding in this pitch?

2:55

It's a long time ago, but I think

2:57

overall I had

3:00

a bit of a fortunate delusion

3:02

in thinking that things would

3:05

work out if I knew how wild

3:08

this idea was and how many

3:10

hurdles would have to be overcome. The

3:13

amount of hurdles was tremendous,

3:16

but I felt very passionate

3:19

about this potential. The

3:21

idea of a company like Marvel making its own

3:24

movies may seem obvious now, but

3:26

in 2003 it was unheard

3:29

of. Back then, companies

3:31

that produced comics or books or toys

3:34

always licensed their products to Hollywood studios,

3:37

and those studios made the films. That's

3:40

just the way it was done. It just seemed

3:42

insane to us at the time.

3:46

This is John Terezun, Marvel's

3:48

longtime top lawyer, and a close

3:50

advisor to Ike. And why

3:52

did it seem insane? Because producing

3:54

a movie is such a huge project. Producing

3:56

movies is something that movies studios do.

3:59

small toy company,

4:02

a licensing company, we were

4:04

a nothing company. So the idea that

4:06

we could actually make movies was an

4:08

astounding idea and somewhat unbelievable

4:11

to us.

4:13

But Ike was intrigued. He

4:15

gave David a job and a mission, to

4:18

raise the funds to make it happen.

4:21

After all, producing movies cost

4:23

hundreds of millions of dollars, hundreds

4:26

of millions that Marvel did not have.

4:32

Luckily for David, it was the mid 2000s, a few years before

4:34

the financial collapse. Wall

4:37

Street was booming, and

4:39

banks were loaning money to practically anyone

4:41

who asked. At the time,

4:43

I'd say the environment was very fortunate. A

4:46

lot of loans were made that perhaps should not have

4:48

been made. Probably our loan should not have been made. Meryl

4:52

Lynch agreed to loan Marvel $525

4:54

million to make movies. This

5:01

was a critical moment for Marvel Studios

5:04

and Hollywood.

5:07

For the first time ever, a small comic

5:09

book publisher, with no movie making

5:11

track record, had the money to

5:13

produce its own films.

5:19

Coming up, what it took for Marvel

5:22

to turn this crazy idea into

5:24

reality.

5:30

From the journal, this is, with great

5:32

power, the rise of superhero

5:34

cinema. I'm Ben Fritz. This

5:37

is episode two. Some

5:40

assembly required.

5:46

When

6:00

AI is everywhere, every process can

6:02

be automated and accelerated. Accelerated,

6:05

accelerated, accelerated. UiPath,

6:08

the AI everywhere foundation of

6:10

innovation.

6:15

This episode is brought to you by US Bank.

6:17

Get even more out of your travels with the US

6:19

Bank Altitude Connect Visa Signature Card.

6:22

Earn five times points when you book hotels and

6:24

car rentals through the Altitude Rewards Center,

6:26

and four times points on travel at gas

6:28

stations and EV charging stations. Learn

6:31

more about how you can earn 50,000 bonus

6:33

points worth $500 at usbank.com

6:35

slash altitude connect. Limited time

6:38

offer. The creditor and issuer of this card is US Bank National

6:40

Association pursuant to a license from Visa USA

6:42

Inc. Some restrictions may apply.

6:53

With more than half a billion dollars

6:55

in hand, Marvel jumped into

6:57

the business of moviemaking. The

7:00

first question was, which superhero

7:02

to start with? They didn't have

7:04

the film rights to their most famous characters,

7:06

like Spider-Man and X-Men. Those

7:09

were still licensed to other studios.

7:12

The characters they did control were decidedly

7:15

B-list, maybe even C-list.

7:18

So there wasn't an obvious choice. And

7:20

we were trying to decide which character

7:22

to base the first movie upon.

7:25

We did a focus group with kids, and we described

7:28

the characters to them. We showed them images

7:30

of the characters. We asked them what

7:32

their thoughts were about the characters. And

7:35

we took their opinions throughout the day.

7:38

John Teritsin said the goal of the focus group

7:40

was to ensure that whichever movie Marvel made

7:42

first would essentially be a good toy

7:44

advertisement.

7:46

Our focus was on selling toys. We

7:49

never viewed the movie studio itself as

7:51

a way that we're realistically going

7:54

to generate profits. We thought we would

7:56

use the movies as a vehicle

7:58

to enhance the attraction. and popularity

8:00

of characters. At the end of the day,

8:03

after we described Iron Man to the focus

8:05

group kids and said he could shoot things

8:07

out of his hand, and he could fly, and

8:09

he had these powers, they loved Iron

8:12

Man.

8:14

Somebody suggested to me that they thought, somebody

8:17

who worked at Marvel previously, that some kids thought

8:19

that Iron Man was like a robot, that it sort of was

8:21

like a Transformers kind of a thing. And that was

8:23

part of the appeal. That's right. I mean,

8:25

I think that to the kids in the focus group, they thought

8:27

Iron Man was great. Iron Man was like a robot.

8:30

It had all the attributes and attraction

8:32

of a robot character. The

8:35

kids had spoken.

8:36

Marvel decided to make an Iron Man

8:38

movie.

8:41

It was risky. He wasn't a household

8:43

name like Spider-Man or Superman. Marvel

8:46

also greenlit the Incredible Hulk, its

8:49

most famous property that wasn't licensed to

8:51

another studio.

8:53

The new Marvel Studios set up

8:56

shop in a decidedly non-glitzy

8:58

space above a Mercedes Benz

9:00

dealership in Beverly Hills. The

9:03

executives there focused on making the movies.

9:06

Meanwhile, Ike Perlmutter stayed behind

9:09

in New York,

9:10

where he kept a close eye on budgets. Now

9:13

that Marvel was making its own movies, every

9:16

dollar it spent was potentially a dollar

9:18

less in profit.

9:19

Ike Perlmutter was very hard on costs.

9:22

He was a guy that had made his money by

9:25

dealing with companies that had slid into

9:27

bankruptcy or into financial distress. So

9:31

when Ike began focusing on making movies,

9:33

he brought that mindset over to

9:35

the movie studio and applied it on the

9:37

movie studio.

9:39

Did that cause any pushback or

9:41

difficulties with the producers or filmmakers in

9:43

LA?

9:44

Oh, sure. I mean, it's a completely different mindset.

9:47

The mindset of Hollywood tends

9:50

to be to spend more money to

9:52

make bigger films, to make them more attractive,

9:55

to spend more money on special effects, to

9:57

spend more money on talent. And

10:00

that was the approach. And Ike was inside

10:02

every single detail, challenging every detail

10:05

of making the movie. And it led to a fair

10:07

amount of friction with the studio eventually.

10:11

And for example, when we made Iron Man,

10:14

there was a scene in Iron Man. It's

10:16

the scene in which Tony Stark is hijacked,

10:19

in which his convoy of Humvees

10:21

was attacked and he was

10:23

captured. And the original script

10:25

called for, I think it was 10 Humvees.

10:28

And Ike looked at that and said, why do we need 10

10:31

Humvees? That's too many. Cut the number

10:33

of Humvees. It's too expensive. So we cut it back, I think,

10:35

to three. Avi

10:38

Arad, Marvel's chief creative officer

10:40

who you met in the last episode,

10:41

oversaw the development of Iron

10:44

Man. And he heard a lot from

10:46

Ike. When we made our first

10:48

movie on our own money, Iron

10:51

Man was freaking out. He

10:54

was sending the accounting guys to see what's

10:56

going on. Then I get a call. How

10:58

come they have all this candy around

11:01

the set? We

11:03

pay them. They can buy their own candy.

11:07

It was an education.

11:11

For the record, Ike disputes the candy

11:13

story.

11:14

But he said he did believe the food catering on

11:17

set was excessive. Ike's

11:19

desire to spend as little as possible affected

11:22

all aspects of production on Iron Man.

11:25

So when the team in Los Angeles started hiring

11:27

people to make the movie, they couldn't exactly

11:30

go to the A-list. We

11:32

were newbies. We hadn't done a million

11:34

pitches. But thank God we didn't realize

11:36

what we were pitching for in the grand

11:38

scheme of things, right?

11:40

That's Art Markham, who was hired to write

11:42

the Iron Man script with his writing partner, Matt

11:44

Holloway. Matt said he knew

11:47

Marvel Studios needed a hit. This

11:50

had to succeed. I

11:52

mean, Iron Man or the Hulk both

11:54

really needed to succeed. And Iron Man really

11:56

needed to succeed because it was also

11:58

the question of...

12:00

He doesn't seem like a second tier character

12:02

anymore, but it's like who's

12:04

Iron Man? For the uninitiated

12:08

Iron Man is the alter ego of Tony Stark

12:10

a billionaire businessman playboy and

12:12

inventor in the comics He's

12:14

kidnapped during the Vietnam War and forced

12:17

to build weapons for the Vietcong While

12:19

imprisoned Stark builds a suit that lets

12:21

him fly and shoot lasers He

12:23

used it to escape and becomes a high-tech

12:26

superhero Tony Stark's not

12:28

a teenage boy who gets bitten by

12:30

a spider, right? He's a grown

12:32

adult You know, he's

12:34

a genius, but he that

12:37

genius has been Used

12:40

to do things that have hurt a lot

12:42

of people that serious You

12:44

know when we sort of dove into the source

12:47

material and you sort of realize like my goodness This

12:49

is a sort of alcoholic weapons manufacturer.

12:52

What an amazing character It's so

12:54

intrigued us. But when you say that it sounds

12:57

like a very serious adult movie,

12:59

right? Like it doesn't it

13:01

doesn't sound like a kids

13:03

comic book movie. So I think

13:06

there was

13:07

Fear, I mean there was fear Like

13:10

is this going to work? Marvel

13:14

hired Jon Favreau to direct at

13:17

the time He wasn't exactly the first

13:19

name that came to mind for big summer blockbusters

13:22

He had only three directing credits His

13:25

most famous was elf a Christmas

13:27

comedy with Will Ferrell playing an overgrown

13:29

manchild

13:36

Elf did not scream action

13:38

and his latest release Zathura a

13:40

science fiction adventure film

13:42

had been a flop But Favreau

13:45

had ideas on how to make Iron Man relatable

13:48

and funny Just

13:50

as Sam Raimi had done with spider-man

13:54

To play Iron Man Marvel considered

13:56

numerous actors including Timothy

13:59

Oliphant from Deadwood But

14:01

they kept returning to one name, Robert

14:04

Downey Jr. He

14:08

was an Oscar nominee, skilled at drama and

14:10

comedy. But at the time, he

14:12

was at a low point in his career. Downey

14:15

had struggled for years with addiction and had

14:17

served time in prison. And those weren't

14:20

the only factors that made him risky. I

14:23

asked Marvel's long-time casting director Sarah

14:25

Finn about him.

14:27

Downey was not an obvious choice

14:29

for this because we saw

14:31

this movie and I think everyone perceived it more in the

14:33

action zone. Although he is

14:36

an actor of the highest caliber, he wasn't

14:38

known in the zone. I think he also wasn't at

14:40

that time at a classic age where people

14:42

would have looked to cast an action

14:44

hero, and there were a lot of questions.

14:47

Robert Downey Jr. was in his 40s,

14:49

older than the average action star. But

14:52

Sarah really wanted him. She

14:54

thought he had charisma and was believable

14:56

as the complicated Tony Stark.

14:58

I suggested having screen tests, knowing that that might

15:00

be a cut through because it

15:03

can be a bit abstract, right? When

15:07

you're casting, you're trying to imagine what somebody's gonna be like

15:09

in the part. You're taking that leap in your imagination.

15:11

If you can see it in front of you, it becomes

15:14

undeniable.

15:15

Tell me about what you remember about his audition,

15:18

about his arrival. Downey came

15:20

in absolutely ready

15:22

to go. I believe he was

15:25

singing God I Hope I Get It from Chorus One

15:28

as he walked in the doors. Nice, nice. And

15:32

we were in a big sound stage,

15:34

kind of cavernous, empty space.

15:36

You can watch the screen test yourself

15:38

on YouTube. Done,

15:41

you're still bucking in Palace, what do we got? What,

15:43

I gotta break out the scion?

15:44

But he walked in and just really

15:47

filled the space and he

15:49

was on fire. He was ready to go

15:51

claim this part.

15:52

There it is, there's a smile. It's okay, yeah,

15:54

so it's natural, less muscles to smile. In

15:57

that room, did you feel like, okay, this is

15:59

it, it's right?

18:00

and Corporation distributor.

18:11

That's

18:22

Iron Man director John Favreau at the 2007 San

18:25

Diego Comic Con, giving a sneak

18:28

peek of the movie to a big crowd. Fans

18:40

who had been skeptical about Marvel making its

18:41

own movies were suddenly excited. This

18:45

was the Iron Man they knew and loved

18:47

from the comic books. A blend of action

18:49

and comedy. In the movie,

18:52

Robert Downey Jr. captured the character's struggles,

18:55

charm, and snark.

18:57

Iron Man, Marvel's first self-produced film, opened

18:59

in May of 2008.

19:14

His premiere was such a big deal that Ike Perlmutter

19:16

agreed to fly out from New York. But

19:18

he didn't want to have to talk to the Hollywood crowd, so

19:21

he wore a disguise, a trench

19:23

coat, a hat, and a fake mustache.

19:27

Which, and I'm not making this up, he

19:29

accidentally put on upside down. Critics

19:32

loved Iron Man, and so did moviegoers.

19:45

The film grossed nearly $600 million. Its

19:48

budget was less than $150 million. That

19:51

made a lot of money.

19:55

Things were changing inside Marvel.

19:58

There was increasing tension between Avi or

19:59

Rod and David Maisel.

20:02

Eventually, Avi left to become

20:04

an independent producer.

20:05

Soon after,

20:07

David replaced him as chairman of Marvel

20:09

Studios.

20:11

David said Iron Man was so successful,

20:13

even Ike Perlmutter was willing to spend a little

20:15

money to celebrate. I remember

20:19

calling Ike and saying, I thought

20:21

we should get John Favreau

20:24

and Robert Downey

20:25

presents, get them new cars.

20:28

And he agreed. I

20:30

think Favreau wanted a Mercedes, certain

20:33

Mercedes, and where his wife thought he

20:35

would like it in certain color. And

20:37

Robert wanted a Bentley in

20:39

a certain color. Because I remember when

20:42

I think it was the night we went to Mr. Chow's, we

20:44

played a trick on John and we had

20:46

the

20:48

valet brought up the Mercedes.

20:50

And then he was so happy. And then it was really

20:52

funny because Robert

20:54

was happy too. But then we could tell, he's

20:56

probably wondering like, where's my car? And we

20:58

made him wait a few days, but we brought

21:00

it to his house

21:02

one afternoon where I think he was taking a nap or something.

21:05

And we parked in his driveway so that when he woke up,

21:07

he saw his new car. And

21:09

I think that spirit of

21:11

fun,

21:12

which I think a lot of people might be surprised that Ike supported

21:14

that, but he did.

21:16

The degree of Iron Man's success at the box

21:19

office caught a lot of people at Marvel by surprise,

21:21

including general counsel, John Teretsin.

21:24

When Robert Iron Man was released, we

21:26

were stunned.

21:27

At least we in New York were stunned by

21:30

the success of the movie at the box office. And

21:32

we said, well, these movies are actually going to be

21:34

popular. Popular on their own. It can make

21:36

money on their own. Wow. And did you actually sell

21:39

as many toys as you expected? You know,

21:41

we didn't. It's interesting. We didn't because

21:43

licensees were skeptical

21:46

about Iron Man as a character. And

21:48

it ended up after the movie came out and it was popular,

21:50

those same licensees

21:53

started chasing Iron Man because they

21:55

didn't have enough product on the shelves.

21:59

world. Well, almost

22:02

on top. It was number two,

22:04

actually. Behind this movie,

22:07

a much grittier take on the superhero genre.

22:10

What do you propose? It's

22:12

simple. We kill the Batman. The

22:16

Dark Knight, the second film in Christopher

22:19

Nolan's Batman trilogy, came

22:21

out in July of 2008, two months

22:24

after Iron Man. The DC

22:26

Comics movie grossed $1 billion. It was

22:28

the biggest film

22:29

of the year. And it couldn't be

22:32

more different than Iron Man. It

22:34

wasn't witty and light. It was grounded

22:37

and dealt with intellectual themes. Some

22:39

men aren't looking for anything logical

22:42

like money. They can't be bought,

22:44

bullied, reasoned or negotiated

22:47

with. Some men just

22:49

want to watch the world burn. The

22:52

Dark Knight was nominated for eight Oscars

22:54

and one, two, including Best Supporting

22:56

Actor. The Oscar goes

22:59

to Heath

22:59

Ledger in The Dark Knight.

23:06

Iron Man got two Oscar nominations for

23:08

sound and visual effects. It didn't

23:10

win either.

23:12

Here's David Maisel on how he saw Marvel's

23:14

competition with DC.

23:17

I was afraid of DC and

23:19

their model was hiring Final Cut directors

23:21

and sometimes that works. You get Chris Nolan movie and

23:24

sometimes it doesn't, right? David

23:26

did not want to give too much power to individual

23:28

filmmakers like Nolan. He

23:31

had a different philosophy for Marvel. This

23:34

was a team effort and the

23:37

producers was Marvel Studios and is

23:39

Marvel Studios. And we needed

23:42

directors and writers and

23:44

talent that wanted to be part of a team and

23:46

a culture.

23:48

But handing over the keys to a Final

23:50

Cut director, I

23:51

don't know how as a producer

23:53

that is,

23:55

um, a fiscally

23:57

or creatively responsible decision. Marvel

24:00

Studios would give ultimate power to its executives,

24:03

who also served as producers, like

24:05

David. To compete with

24:07

DC movies like The Dark Knight, Marvel

24:10

would have to build on the success of Iron Man.

24:13

David had an idea of how to do that. He

24:16

decided to explore whether he could sell

24:18

Marvel to the biggest company in

24:20

Hollywood, Disney. It

24:23

turned out Disney had already been thinking

24:25

about Marvel. Tell me

24:27

about the first time to either of your recollections

24:29

that the idea of Marvel as

24:32

a company that Disney could buy came up.

24:34

Marvel had been on Disney's radar, our

24:36

radar screen for quite some time. That's

24:39

Tom Staggs. He and his business

24:41

partner, Kevin Mayer, are former top

24:43

executives at Disney. We actually did

24:45

a study, a strategy piece, called Disney 2015, which

24:47

in 2005, sounded

24:50

very forward looking, but it's a little odd now.

24:53

And part of that was looking

24:55

at what acquisitions would make sense

24:57

for Disney, and Marvel was part of that equation.

25:00

We put together some, I think, pretty compelling analysis

25:02

as to how Marvel would be worth a lot more

25:04

as part of Disney than it was as a standalone company.

25:07

Although interestingly enough,

25:08

Marvel wasn't necessarily seen by everyone

25:10

inside Disney as a natural fit at first. We

25:13

saw it as being highly complimentary, and

25:15

it took a little bit of doing with some of the folks to try to get

25:18

people excited, but- What was their objection or concern?

25:20

I think it had more to do with the nature of the

25:23

content. It was a little more action-oriented.

25:26

Yeah, there's that. Also, there's the notion, which made

25:28

sense a bit, why would you buy a comic

25:30

book company just to get a bunch of characters? You can make up characters,

25:33

you can, or Disney, why can't we

25:35

just develop characters?

25:37

Disney declined to comment. David,

25:40

who used to work at Disney, approached

25:43

its CEO, Bob Iger, in early 2009.

25:48

I remember standing outside the Team Disney building.

25:51

I brought in the Marvel Encyclopedia for Bob.

25:54

So anyone who saw me walking into Team Disney that

25:56

morning could have figured it out, and made

25:58

some money.

25:59

probably in the stock.

26:03

The Marvel Encyclopedia had information on

26:06

thousands of characters, proof

26:08

that there was a lot more than Iron Man that

26:10

Disney could mine. But one

26:12

very important person didn't know what was

26:14

going on yet. David

26:17

hadn't told his boss, Ike Perlmutter, that

26:19

he was having this meeting. After

26:21

finding out Iger might be interested, David

26:24

nervously dialed Ike up. He

26:27

was standing in a parking lot outside Disney's

26:29

executive building, which features huge

26:31

statues of the seven dwarfs holding up the

26:33

roof.

26:33

I remember looking up the seven dwarfs

26:36

and calling Ike and telling him about my meeting. And

26:38

I thought there'd be three answers.

26:40

Either he'd say, you're fired for

26:44

having that meeting without telling me. Two,

26:46

he'd say, go back to work and finish

26:49

up Iron Man 2. Or three,

26:51

come to New York. And he said, come to New York. Come

26:55

to New York, meaning come to Ike's

26:58

office. Because Ike was not mad

27:00

that David had approached Disney about a sale. Ike

27:03

was intrigued. Soon,

27:05

he and Iger had their first meeting in New York in

27:07

the summer of 2009.

27:13

John Tewritzen has a vivid memory of

27:15

the moment.

27:17

I remember, I remember very clearly,

27:20

Ike Perlmutter came, walked down the hall

27:22

to my office. And he said

27:24

he was meeting with Bob Iger. Bob Iger

27:26

wanted to come to his office to meet with him. And

27:29

about possibly buying or doing a

27:31

deal with Marvel. After the

27:33

meeting was over, Ike walked down the hall to

27:35

my office and he opened the door. He said,

27:38

can you believe? He said, can you believe they're

27:41

serious about maybe buying Marvel? And

27:43

Ike had no interest before that time. No

27:45

interest at all in selling Marvel or

27:47

losing control of Marvel. He loved running

27:50

Marvel by himself. But

27:52

he said, I like this man. He

27:54

said, I like him. I think I could

27:56

work with him. Then that night,

27:59

Bob Iger and went to dinner with

28:01

Ike Perlmutter and Ike Perlmutter's wife, and

28:03

they continued the conversation to get comfortable.

28:06

And Ike became very comfortable with Bob Iger.

28:08

Was it also important to Ike that he would retain

28:11

some level of control over Marvel? Yes, it

28:14

was very important. Ike loved

28:16

running Marvel. It was very important for

28:18

him to stay in control and run

28:20

Marvel. And so

28:23

when we negotiated a deal with Disney, we

28:26

had an addendum

28:28

to the merger agreement. It

28:31

wasn't legally binding, but the basic

28:33

idea was that Marvel would remain autonomous

28:36

and that Ike Perlmutter would be able to control

28:39

Marvel.

28:41

Disney agreed to buy Marvel in August of 2009 for $4

28:43

billion. Ike

28:47

Perlmutter received a combination of cash and

28:49

Disney stock worth about $1.6 billion

28:51

at the time. And

28:54

he told us Iger personally promised

28:56

him that he would remain in charge of Marvel

28:58

as part of Disney. Here

29:00

are former Disney executives Tom Staggs

29:03

and Kevin Mayer again. I remember,

29:05

well, we announced it on a Monday, I think. And

29:07

of course, they're stuck. And

29:09

it was a 29 or 30 percent premium to their

29:12

stock price. Their stock obviously

29:14

shot up. Ours actually went down that day. We went

29:16

down 2 or 3 percent. We

29:18

were accused of overpaying dramatically. I got more

29:21

than a few calls actually. Are you kidding me? It's

29:23

a comic book company, $4 billion. And

29:26

we reiterated our mantra and said we

29:28

really think that there's real value here. When

29:31

the deal was closed with more with

29:33

Ike and David, was there some kind

29:35

of celebration or meeting of everybody?

29:39

There was a big all hands meeting in the then

29:41

New York offices they've switched since then. I

29:44

remember the air conditioning wasn't working. It was really hot.

29:47

We had to open the window. I think it was tough. It was a tough

29:49

meeting, but it was fun. I went

29:51

to some Marvel offices a few years ago. I was struck

29:54

by giving them a successful company they are. It was a very

29:57

austere office. Ike's very austere

29:59

and premium.

29:59

He did not spend extra

30:02

dollars at all. I mean, look, he did take it

30:04

out of bankruptcy. He put the company

30:06

on the footing that allowed it to be sold for $4 billion.

30:09

So hats off to Ike.

30:12

David Maisel left Marvel Studios after the Disney acquisition.

30:15

Over $20 million richer. The

30:19

person who stepped into David's shoes was

30:22

Kevin Feige.

30:23

Feige had worked his

30:25

way up at Marvel. First

30:27

as a junior executive who carried Avi Arad's bags to meetings.

30:30

Then as a producer on Iron Man. Now

30:33

Feige was the head

30:35

of the whole studio under Ike Perlmutter. And

30:37

he was tasked with making Marvel's next batch of

30:39

movies.

30:44

With Disney's resources, Feige

30:46

moved forward with a bold strategy that no studio had done

30:48

before. To link

30:52

all Marvel's movies into one connecting

30:54

storyline. A cinematic

30:57

universe.

30:59

And I know that a lot of us, including

31:02

Kevin, that was the goal is can

31:04

we manifest this crazy dream all the

31:06

way to an Avengers movie. Which

31:09

seemed impossible at the moment, both technically

31:11

and just seemed crazy. It

31:14

was a strategy that would fuel superheroes'

31:17

takeover of Hollywood. That's

31:19

next time on With Great Power.

31:22

Out tomorrow.

31:30

With Great Power is part of the journal,

31:32

which is a co-production of Gimlet and The Wall Street

31:34

Journal. I'm Ben Fritz, host

31:37

and reporter. This episode was produced

31:39

by Lisa Wang, with help from Alan

31:42

Rodriguez Espinoza, Matt Kwang,

31:44

John Sanders and Pierre Singhe. The

31:47

series is edited by Catherine Brewer and

31:49

Annie Baxter. Fact checking by

31:51

Nicole Pasulka and Amelia Schonbeck. Sound

31:54

design and mixing by Griffin Tanner. The

31:57

music in this episode is by Bobby Lord, Griffin

31:59

Tanner and

31:59

Peter Leonard, Audio Network,

32:02

and Epidemic Sound. Our theme

32:04

music is by So Wily and remixed by

32:06

Nathan Singapak. Special thanks

32:08

to Maria Byrne, Kate Limebaugh, Jessica

32:11

Mendoza, Sarah Platt, Sarah

32:13

Raebel, Ethan Smith, Catherine Whelan,

32:15

and Veronica Zaragovia.

32:20

Thanks for listening.

32:21

Check out episode 3 tomorrow.

32:28

When did you start to understand, oh, this

32:30

is a cinematic universe, this is something different? Yeah,

32:33

it was around the time that we were doing Cap and Thor.

32:35

Kevin mentioned something about the Avengers. That

32:38

really blew my mind because these

32:40

other films again weren't known characters.