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That's plushcare.com/weight loss. We're

1:19

using the old Roman amphitheatre, but sadly

1:21

our engineer Paul Diderrecki decided it wasn't

1:23

quite up to spec. He wasn't happy

1:25

with the roofless acoustics, and the bear

1:27

pit apparently posed problems for the risk

1:29

assessment. Killjoy. It's health and safety

1:31

gone mad, I tell you. Luckily, though,

1:33

we got an upgrade, as the equally grand and

1:36

historic Upton Village Hall was standing by to welcome

1:38

us with open arms, and we couldn't be happier

1:40

to be here, and it's got a roof. Enticed

1:44

out of their kitchens and ready to blow said

1:46

roof off is our gang of cooks, chefs and

1:48

food experts. It's chefs Robbo and Brown, Nisha Katona,

1:51

Sophie Wright, and with them, someone who could tell

1:53

us exactly what the Romans have done for us.

1:55

It's our food historian, Dr. Annie Gray. Ladies and

1:57

gentlemen, your kitchen cabinet panel. Now

2:06

then, with baying amphitheater crowds and the wild

2:08

spectacles inside them in mind, I'd like to

2:10

hear about a time you've had to cook

2:13

in front of an audience. Nisha? Well,

2:16

I kind of do that for a living, cooking in front

2:18

of crowds and being a curry evangelist,

2:20

you see. And so I would come to crowds,

2:22

I cooked at Chester Food Show a couple

2:24

of years ago, while I still had my mother, and she

2:26

came for moral support. But the Asian parent

2:29

idea of moral support is to

2:31

tanka pong jin at the artisan van outside

2:33

and then come and heckle and shout at

2:35

the audience, not to believe a word I

2:37

said, whilst shaking her walking stick. I kid

2:39

you not. So kind of, yeah, talk about,

2:42

you know, baying crowds. Sophie? One

2:44

I really remember. I was lulled

2:46

into a false sense of security while

2:48

chopping and chatting, being interviewed and using

2:50

a brand new swivel head peeler and

2:53

just casually peeling my carrot and then

2:55

looking down and realised that I'd removed

2:57

the entire top of my finger tip

3:00

using this brand new peeler. When

3:02

you look down, you're like, desperately looking for

3:04

something in a very, very understated way to

3:06

hide the masses of blood that is pouring

3:09

out of the top of my hand. But yeah,

3:11

I mean, it's one of those things. What

3:13

can you do? Never mind. The

3:15

show must go on, eh? I once set fire to six

3:17

pigs at a music festival. What

3:21

do you get up to in your private life? It's entirely right

3:23

of hand. Well,

3:25

let's see if this audience will treat us

3:27

more kindly. Let's take our first question from

3:30

Mandy Tao from Malpus in Cheshire. Hello,

3:32

panel. I'm really not a cook.

3:34

That's what I keep a husband for. When

3:37

I'm forced to cook, I resort back

3:40

to student meals and they involve tins

3:42

of condensed soup. I've got

3:44

two particular recipes, one I'm absolutely banned

3:46

from making and one my family still

3:48

love. So what would

3:50

you make if you have limited ingredients

3:52

and a tin of condensed soup? Mandy,

3:55

the first thing I have to ask you is, what's the

3:57

one you're never allowed to make? chicken

4:00

condensed soup mixed with a

4:02

tin of tuna. Oh wow. Oh Lord. Covered

4:06

in ready salted crisps and

4:08

covered in grated cheese and

4:11

then baked for about half an hour. Where did

4:13

you get this from? I really

4:15

can't remember, but we ate it a lot when I

4:17

was at college. It's a one of honey books.

4:19

Something me and I. I can tell you where you

4:21

got that from and you forgot the tinned tomatoes that

4:23

go in between the ready salted crisps with the cheese.

4:25

Oh, I have to try it again. Yeah, no, I'll

4:27

try it. It

4:30

was from the Good Food magazine in about 1991. Oh,

4:35

I was at college before then. It might be in

4:37

the 80s. I mean, it was a staple in my

4:39

house. Well, there you

4:41

go. I mean, was that the one you were going to

4:43

suggest, Danny? No, I changed my mind

4:45

actually, because I thought I can't actually say that in

4:47

front of this audience that might want to eat. It's all

4:49

right, Mandy already has. So what are you going to suggest? I

4:52

was going to actually do a Victorian tip because

4:55

the Victorians also had various soups. And what they

4:57

said was if you were going to serve soup

4:59

from a tin or a jar as it often

5:01

was, you should try and make it look like

5:03

it wasn't by putting things like a little few

5:05

drops of oil on the top or

5:07

a few bits of herb that you hadn't

5:10

quite managed to sieve out so you could

5:12

fake it. So I would

5:14

say just serve the soup and people would just think

5:16

you've over salted it and it's horrible. I could say

5:18

it. Brilliant tip.

5:21

Rob Owen Brown, what can we make? I'm

5:23

going to use a little bit of condensed mushroom

5:25

soup, get some pork loin,

5:27

nice pork loin steak, batten that out. I'm

5:30

going to put a thin layer of condensed mushroom

5:32

soup onto that with some sage leaves, some salt,

5:34

some pepper, put another layer of battened pork over

5:36

the top. So we've got a lovely little porky

5:39

sandwich. I've got a breadcrumb that and pan

5:41

fry that in some butter with a few capers and

5:43

some freshly chopped sage and parsley and a squeeze of

5:46

lemon at the end. Oh, delicious. Have

5:48

you actually tried to do this? Is

5:50

this a thought experiment? No, that's okay,

5:52

you know. And then put onto a

5:55

really rustic-y sort of crunchy French steak

5:57

with far too much butter on it.

5:59

it. That eats really really well. Okay

6:02

I'm not arguing. Nisha. Tomato

6:04

soup pasta's an easy thing to make

6:06

but have you ever watched The Godfather?

6:08

Do you remember that scene where he's

6:10

teaching Michael Corleone how to make pasta

6:13

and you start with a little bit of garlic and a pan

6:15

and oil and sugar, a little bit of sugar. So

6:17

tin of tomato soup is fine. If you

6:19

can add a tin of tomatoes to that,

6:22

that would be great. Red wine and then

6:24

you get meatballs and sausage. Ideally

6:27

with some senneling because that just makes

6:29

it extraordinary. So you just tip those

6:31

in and poach and honestly it's so

6:33

simple but it's delicious but the soup

6:35

works really well with that. So you're

6:37

saying condensed tomato soup as the base

6:39

for a good tomato sauce? Yeah

6:42

we are slightly scraping the barrel here. I

6:44

mean I'm not robo

6:47

and brown so this is where we

6:49

go but yes I'm saying you can

6:51

enhance that with a few you know

6:53

a bit of tinned tomatoes would be

6:55

great but the soup is a good

6:57

base. The red wine lifts it you

6:59

see. Brilliant and I think that's doubled

7:01

my repertoire. I have to say we are missing

7:04

Tim Anderson and then regular listeners will know

7:06

that the Anderson family

7:08

cookbook is full of

7:11

condensed soup recipes so

7:13

if Tim would like to email

7:16

the show, pkc at bbc.co.uk. You're

7:19

listening to The Kitchen Cabinet which today

7:21

comes from Chester, the county town of

7:23

Cheshire. The surrounding landscape has been heavily

7:25

farmed for millennia with dairy farms in

7:27

particular featuring prominently and where there's dairy

7:29

there's cheese and where there's cheese there's

7:31

Dr. Annie Gray. So

7:33

Annie I think over the course of this show's

7:36

dozen years on the air we fully established that

7:38

you do like cheese. Give

7:40

us a bit of the history behind one of

7:42

our most celebrated cheeses please, the famous Cheshire cheese.

7:44

Oh well Cheshire cheese is probably

7:46

the oldest named cheese in Britain,

7:49

predates the Roman period and it's one of the

7:51

very few cheeses in Britain that was originally made

7:53

with cow's milk not sheep milk because sheep are

7:55

much easier to farm so it's

7:58

relatively unusual cheese and it was

8:00

all always very, very popular regionally. So every region

8:02

at one point would have made its own

8:04

cheese. And then in

8:06

the 17th century, it started to

8:08

gain national renown, largely because London

8:10

was expanding and Londoners ate a

8:12

lot of cheese. So they

8:14

sort of big market developed for Cheshire

8:16

cheese and it became the cheese of

8:18

Britain. You know, people today think cheese,

8:20

Britain, cheddar, but no, it was always

8:22

about the Cheshire. You've heard of

8:25

rhubarb expresses and water expresses. There was a Cheshire

8:27

cheese express to take the cheese down to London

8:29

for the market. But it all

8:31

went a bit wrong because cheddar started to

8:33

get in on the game. So

8:35

Cheshire got a bit cheaper and then in came

8:37

American imports of cheese at the end of the

8:39

19th century. So that eroded the bottom end of

8:42

the market. So Cheshire sort of

8:44

started to lead its way. And then of course,

8:46

the usual things happen within the British cheese market,

8:48

World War II, the end of British

8:50

cheese, basically. Terrible things happening to

8:52

artisan producers until you ended up really in the 1960s

8:54

and 70s with one or

8:57

two farmhouse producers left. But there

8:59

has been a resurgence. So it is good cheese

9:01

again now sometimes, but it's not what it used to

9:03

be, I think it's fair to say. Well,

9:05

joining me now is Anne Faulkner, owner of

9:07

the family run cheese shop here in Chester.

9:10

Thanks for joining us Anne. So that's the

9:12

history, but is Cheshire a popular cheese around

9:14

these parts now? Yes,

9:16

it's our best selling cheese in

9:19

the shop. Thank goodness, because we're

9:21

in Cheshire, but with local people,

9:23

obviously visitors love to come and

9:25

they come in search of traditional

9:27

Cheshire cheese. And are there many

9:29

people making it today? There

9:31

are on their own farms using their

9:33

own milk, only two makers, so Bournes

9:36

and Applebee's. Now you have actually brought some

9:38

cheeses with you. You've been very

9:40

generous and Annie Gray is cutting up the cheese

9:42

for you. So what have they got on that

9:44

board there? So they've got Applebee's

9:47

Cheshire, which is the red-coloured one,

9:49

and then Bournes Cheshire. So they're

9:51

two traditional cloth-bound cheeses. They're

9:54

made traditionally with a cloth that aged in

9:56

the cloth, sort of three, four months

9:58

old. So... bit about what

10:00

type of a cheese Cheshire is for anybody who

10:03

doesn't really know what's what are its characteristics? Well

10:05

crumbly, mild, it's always a mild cheese

10:07

because it's not aged like a cheddar.

10:10

You get that saltiness because we're on the

10:12

Cheshire plain and one of the features of

10:15

the Cheshire plain it's the sandstone salty,

10:17

the grass that the cows eat

10:20

in this area. I've got that saltiness

10:22

to it so it's always got a saltiness,

10:24

crumbly, light but full of flavour and I

10:26

think a lot of this sort of more

10:29

standard Cheshire cheeses people are really surprised

10:31

by oh this is what Cheshire tastes like

10:33

they're like oh I've never had a

10:35

clue it tastes like this which obviously the

10:37

panel nodding there is. Oh they're having a very nice

10:39

time. Not

10:42

what you have in mind I think of what Cheshire

10:44

is when you taste a real Cheshire. You think they're

10:46

turning up for work but really they're just here

10:48

for free cheese. How do you like

10:50

to use it? What's it good for? It's

10:53

great. Cheshire cheese doesn't melt like

10:55

a cheddar or alpine

10:58

cheese it stays in form on top if you

11:00

melt it but it's still great for cheese toasties

11:03

so we have the Harry Bikers came they did

11:05

a cheese toasty they did a Cheshire cheese soup

11:08

so it's really versatile.

11:10

We'll come back to Cheshire in a second I'm just curious are

11:12

there any other local cheeses you'd like to wave the flag for?

11:15

Yes so we've got which is on

11:17

the board is an alpine style cheese

11:19

that's made by Anne Clayton in Malpass

11:22

almost like an Emmentale so it's a cooked cheese

11:24

so that's a really good one for melting then

11:27

we've also got Claire Burt who

11:29

makes the Burt's Blue and the

11:31

Drunken Burt so they're completely different

11:33

cheeses really creamy rich blue and

11:35

then another cheese called Drunken Burt

11:37

which is washed inside her so

11:39

she's from Nutsford so we're

11:42

really lucky to have you know

11:44

those artisan cheesemakers. Excellent stuff what

11:46

do you say despite what Annie was saying about

11:49

you know the decline of cheese after the

11:51

Second World War that it's a good time

11:53

now for British cheeses generally? Yeah Absolutely

11:55

I mean I Look back when my mom

11:57

started the shop 39 years. Go.

12:01

There. Was probably. Ten cent

12:03

of our covenant was British, my

12:05

son Jesus the rest is or

12:08

foreign Now wait, it's completely flipped

12:10

around and ninety central British artist

12:12

and Jesus. Robots he likes to do with

12:14

cheshire. You know I

12:16

think this is such a wonderful wonderful products

12:19

I don't want to cook with it. He

12:21

wants me what I was gonna do in

12:24

up now I would slice or as sick

12:26

as a baby's arm holds up with some

12:28

tests show places put up a lovely the

12:30

alleged his mouth sticker on assume we just

12:33

interview Trunk cook without didn't miss some we

12:35

that he wants to members and. Yeah.

12:37

I'm gonna put on a some, we'll just leave it on

12:39

the trees. Planted some practice. I wish I could find someone

12:42

who would look at me the way you were looking at

12:44

that. I

12:47

want to say large quantities of English, a

12:49

lot of those blue and say you know

12:51

load and the Lancaster bomber of fly over

12:53

from signal that sounded like. A

13:01

second question on T from Manda Thomas

13:03

from Because Cross and. At

13:05

Light Sauce the panel and after

13:07

recently achieving my dream as a

13:09

timely guessing a camper van my

13:11

husband and I at those less

13:13

he said it. Taking a trip

13:15

out li eating alfresco and take

13:18

it a picnic with as left

13:20

chase added to the tunnel suggest

13:22

any great picnic t this is

13:24

at with some tasty accompaniments Place.

13:26

Right? Mesa? Something

13:28

this big smile Hispanic Caucus A you know

13:30

the Greek or Philo parcels with yes and

13:33

the secret there is is a bit of

13:35

deal in with is usually set a cheese.

13:37

And spinach that eaten can use frozen

13:39

that's been drained really dry. And

13:41

then into this lovely see that possible

13:43

they that great cold that sweat cities

13:45

because it doesn't melt would actually work

13:48

really well. so better or something like

13:50

that that holds it's full than a

13:52

nice tomatoes or anything. Anything fruity on

13:54

the side of life just wonderful. The

13:56

tomato chutney that Mr. see through it or

13:58

something like that city mine Well,

14:01

I mean, it's cheesing on your pie screens,

14:03

doesn't it? You know, a nice cold, thick cheesing on

14:05

your pie. But I'm going to go with a bargee.

14:09

Yeah, sliced onions, red and white, soften them first,

14:11

just wilt them with a little bit of salt

14:14

and wash the salty water off, get them all

14:16

nice and clean. Get a

14:18

little bit of egg in there, because that's going to help to

14:20

hold the filling so it doesn't go too soggy. And then we're

14:22

going to get some gram flour in, a little bit of cumin,

14:24

a little bit of coriander, and then we're going to fry them

14:26

in a nice little bargee shape. But just before we do it,

14:28

at the very last minute, we're going to whip a load of

14:31

soft blue cheese through it and

14:33

deep fry those, and then serve those nice and

14:35

cold, obviously, but with a lovely little choc. Rob,

14:38

that's my husband's favourite food, bargees and

14:41

the filling. LAUGHTER As

14:45

you are actually sitting next to one of... I

14:47

know, it's great. ..one of the most foremost Indian

14:49

cooks. Nisha, what are you making

14:51

out? I'm just glad my mother's not here, right?

14:53

LAUGHTER With a stick

14:55

and a head lead. It sounds amazing, though. We

14:57

don't usually put eggs in them, but that's a cracking way to get... Hold

15:00

it up a little. ..hold it up, it

15:02

does. It helps hold those arteries up a bit

15:04

more. LAUGHTER Sophie. Fantastic. I'd

15:07

make a massive batch of cheese straws of

15:09

all varieties. So get yourself

15:11

some shop-bought puff pastry and then get creative.

15:14

So I'd start with cheddar and

15:16

marmite. I'd go stilton

15:19

in a bit of cayenne, perhaps. I'd

15:21

go pesto and parmesan, but go really, really heavy on

15:23

the cheese. And then you can roll them up in

15:25

all different shapes so you know which flavour is what.

15:27

So you could do some twisted, some rolled, some in

15:30

slightly different shapes. Get them in a great big batch,

15:32

take them off with you, make some dips to go

15:34

on the side, and then you can have a little

15:36

snackette before you barge. LAUGHTER

15:39

And a big round of applause for Anne Faulkner from the cheese

15:41

straws. CHEERING APPLAUSE

15:46

Let's take our next question from Sean Jones from Pointon.

15:50

Hi, panel. I recently

15:52

made haggis lasagna. So

15:55

I was wondering if you had some haggis and you wanted

15:57

to do something different with it, what you'd do with it.

16:00

I have to say, I think this is one for Robbo and Brown.

16:03

You like your haggis, don't you? I got haggis for

16:05

breakfast this morning with eggs. Yeah, I love

16:07

the stuff. I think it's like men's books and sounds

16:09

better, isn't it? There's a lot more going on. And

16:12

there's little bits of poulsy in there, so you feel like you're

16:14

doing the right healthy thing. Scotch

16:18

egg it. Yeah, get

16:21

a pickled egg. If you really want to get tricky,

16:24

get a pickled egg. Wrap the

16:26

haggis around that, and then season

16:28

some breadcrumbs with a little bit

16:30

of English mustard powder, some smoke breaker. Try

16:33

that one. Okay. It'll

16:35

change your life, though. Right, I

16:37

lost one. That's not quite the Manchester egg, is it?

16:39

It's not quite the Manchester egg. I have to be honest,

16:41

I mean, we sold a lot of those things, but

16:45

it's really, really very special. Okay, Scotch

16:47

egg made with haggis. Nisha.

16:51

Haggis works brilliantly in a

16:53

pakora, which is what we've been talking

16:56

about earlier. But a pakora, so it's

16:58

like a bhaji, but here's the twist,

17:01

is that the liquid that we use is

17:03

iron brew. And it works very well. Oh,

17:05

you're walking there. I'm not walking there. It's true. So,

17:08

it's a bowl, ground flour,

17:10

iron, it's so easy, ground flour, iron

17:12

brew, and then in with your haggis.

17:14

And the spicing that you would use, because we

17:17

are more of a Western haggis, bit of marjoram

17:19

is fabulous, or a bit of thyme. In

17:21

India, we do something called ajwain, which is the same kind

17:24

of flavour my mouth's actually watering here. And then you mush

17:27

that up, and then

17:29

balls of that, and then you deep fry them. And they are

17:31

defined, because you've got that little bit of sweetness from the iron

17:33

brew, which is just so messed up. And then

17:35

the haggis with all that rubble of

17:37

just wonderfulness, but

17:39

it's a real recipe. It's in my book. It's something that

17:42

I do do. Sophie. So,

17:45

I think I would try something

17:47

like Mexican eggs, which you'd

17:50

normally have, you could either have it veggie, but

17:52

I always put a bit of chorizo in mine.

17:54

So, what I would do is I'd fry up

17:56

the haggis, and into that I would add some

17:58

cumin, smoked paprika, like a chipotle

18:01

chili, get all that happening in the pan,

18:03

get all that fat melting, get all that

18:05

fry off a tortilla over an open flame,

18:08

make a little guacamole or just some diced

18:10

up avocado with a bit of red onion and some

18:12

chopped up jalapeno chilies in there and then fry an

18:14

egg sunny side up and then so

18:16

you put your haggis onto your

18:18

tortilla which you've just charred, then your

18:21

egg, then your little avocado salsa, a

18:23

bit of sour cream and a bit

18:25

of hot sauce over the top that

18:27

is a very delicious breakfast. Yeah, Sean

18:31

does that sound like a very good idea

18:33

to you? Yeah I'd like to try that

18:35

yeah, have some with your haggis. Thank you.

18:38

You're listening to the kitchen cabinet which this

18:40

week comes to you from Chester, we've already

18:42

spent some time talking about one of the

18:44

county's most famous exports in Cheshire cheese, so

18:46

Annie I think it's time to delve into

18:48

the realms of the more obscure now with

18:50

another local dish, what have you got that

18:53

you brought with you? So I made a

18:55

thing called Chester Pudding which

18:58

I don't think really exists. I

19:02

can see it. So I did quite a bit of

19:04

research into Chester Pudding because it seems to crop up

19:06

as a name in newspapers, not a lot

19:08

but a bit and there are loads

19:10

of different Chester Pudding, loads of them. The

19:12

one that seems to be relatively

19:15

common and certainly the one I thought

19:17

sounded most interesting was

19:20

a sort of precursor to the lemon meringue pie in

19:22

some ways. This one

19:24

comes from a book that was published in

19:27

1875 called Worn's Model Cookery which is pudding

19:29

obsessed and has, I don't know, 33 pages

19:32

of puddings or something and it's more

19:34

of a tart, it must

19:36

be said, so there's pastry around the outside

19:38

and then there's a kind of filling which

19:41

is almonds and eggs and butter and

19:43

the juice of one lemon and lemon zest

19:45

so it's quite a lemony almondy custard I

19:47

suppose, sort of crossed between a curd and

19:50

a custard and then there's meringue on top.

19:52

So it's like a lemon meringue pie

19:54

but kind of less sloppy and

19:56

a bit more robust and a bit more kind

19:58

of, you know, know, food to

20:00

go to work on. Annie, the

20:02

meringue element is interesting. When did people

20:05

first start using meringue? 17th

20:07

century, really. So there's a sort of

20:09

precursor to meringue, which is often called

20:11

things like snow, which is whipped cream

20:13

with egg white and sugar. So not

20:16

meringue at all, but it's meringue-like

20:18

in that it's white and whipped and very much food

20:20

for the wealthy. And then meringue,

20:22

as we would know, it's a just egg

20:24

white and sugar, develops probably in France. It's

20:26

first named as meringue by a French chef.

20:28

No one really knows where the name comes

20:30

from in 1691.

20:33

And then it appeared in English in 1706. So it's

20:35

that kind of end of the 17th

20:37

century phase. And it catches on quite

20:39

quickly, because if you're making a lot of custard, which

20:41

people did a lot then, I love the 18th century,

20:43

then you have a lot of egg whites left over.

20:46

So meringues are really useful thing

20:48

to do. And it's quite difficult and it's quite

20:50

faffy. So it's a really good way of showing

20:52

off your wealth. A lot of

20:54

the time meringues were made quite small. And then

20:56

they'd be sandwiched together with cream or another filling.

20:59

And sometimes there'd be almonds on the outside of

21:01

them. Sometimes people would add things to meringue. So

21:03

there's a lovely set of recipes in the late

21:05

18th century where they're called puffs rather than meringues.

21:07

You get a lot of different names. So chocolate

21:09

puffs and lemon puffs, where you've got grated lemon

21:12

rind in the meringue or grated chocolate.

21:14

And then in the 19th century, it gets a lot

21:17

easier to make meringue because up to that point, you

21:19

don't have a whisk. You

21:21

have a bunch of birch twigs. And if you're

21:23

lucky, a copper egg mixing bowl, which does make

21:25

making meringue much easier because the copper reacts with

21:27

the egg white protein. So you can get quite

21:29

a good stiff foam. But until the invention of

21:31

the wire whisk in the 1840s, and then the

21:33

invention of the rotary whisk in the 1860s, basically

21:37

meringue is really quite difficult to make.

21:40

And once it becomes easier to make, and also once

21:42

sugar goes down in price in the 1870s, suddenly everybody's

21:45

at it. And that's when you get the

21:47

development of things like eat mess and later

21:49

on pavlovas in the 1930s, and so on

21:52

and so forth. So it's a story

21:54

really of it being very wealthy for a

21:56

while. And then once you get technological development,

21:58

everybody starts to... Let's

22:01

take a question on meringue from Claire

22:03

Mantel from Holmes Chapel. Hi,

22:06

my mother-in-law uses

22:08

vinegar and cornflowers to make

22:10

meringues, to make it last longer and

22:12

less sticky. Are there any other additives

22:15

that you suggest? So I think you're referring

22:17

to French meringues, as in the Chris ones.

22:20

Sophie, I mean, we ought to get into definitions

22:22

here. What are the different

22:24

types of meringue? OK, so there's

22:26

three main types of meringue, which one

22:28

is French, which is the one that

22:30

I think your mother-in-law probably uses. So

22:33

there's Italian and there's Swiss. Now, the

22:35

two most common ones are French and

22:37

Italian meringue. Swiss meringue is relatively easy

22:39

to make, but it's not really made

22:41

in bulk in many kitchens anymore. And

22:43

I can quickly take you through the

22:46

stages, if that's useful. So French meringue

22:48

is raw eggs and raw sugar. So

22:50

granulated sugar and eggs. So it's the

22:52

one that you probably will most use

22:54

in your kitchens at home. And

22:56

the best way to make it is with

22:58

double the amount of sugar to egg. And

23:01

I would always weigh my eggs, right? So

23:03

if I've got 50 grams of egg white,

23:05

I will use 100 grams of sugar. That's

23:07

the best way to make it really, really

23:09

accurate. And so you start with the egg

23:11

whites, you whisk them up, whisk them up,

23:13

and then you slowly, gradually add your sugar.

23:16

I always use half caster sugar and the second

23:18

half, when I'm adding the last bit, is icing

23:20

sugar. And that gives you a really, really nice

23:22

glossy finish. That then goes into a hot oven

23:24

at about 180 degrees. You

23:26

then turn the oven down to about 120. Cook

23:29

it until it's dried about an hour. Leave it to

23:31

cool with the door open. That's the

23:34

best way to do it. What about adding

23:36

vinegar and cornflour? What's going on there? OK,

23:38

so that makes the meringue more stable. And I

23:40

would do that if I was making something like

23:43

a pavlova, where you want that really chewy, gooey

23:45

finish on the inside, but you don't want it

23:47

dried all the way through. Also, the cornflour and

23:49

the vinegar stops it from bleeding. So it stops,

23:51

you know, sometimes if you add too much sugar,

23:54

you'll get that run. Or if you

23:56

haven't dried it out properly in the oven, you get that run as

23:58

well. You know, the next day it will start to get better. to

24:00

sort of be a bit liquid around the outside. So

24:02

that helps with that as well. Are

24:04

there any other additives that you would suggest? Or is it

24:06

just the vinegar and the cornflour that can do the job?

24:09

Those are the two that are most commonly known. I

24:11

think you could probably use any acid. So probably a lemon

24:13

juice would also do the job, but I would stick

24:15

to the vinegar, yeah. Rob, have you got any

24:17

tips on making meringue? Yeah, I wouldn't do any

24:19

of that anymore. I've

24:22

seen the light. I'm going

24:24

to use aquafaba. I'm not going to

24:27

bash about with eggs anymore. No, don't mess about

24:29

with eggs. Aquafaba is the juice of a can

24:31

of chickpeas. Ooh,

24:34

here we go. Scandalized chicken

24:37

society, right? 200

24:39

grams of the juice of chickpeas,

24:41

yeah, the tinned ones. Don't buy expensive

24:43

ones, just the tinned, into an electric

24:45

mixer. You will need an electric mixer

24:47

for this. Otherwise, the novelty will wear

24:50

off really, really fast. 200

24:53

grams, get that spinning with a whisk attachment

24:55

on it that will very quickly form into

24:57

a foam. You want to

24:59

add 100 grams of caster sugar to keep

25:02

the mixer going, and a quarter of

25:04

a teaspoon of citric acid. You're

25:06

biting most drops, it's dead easy, and it doesn't go

25:08

off in the fridge like a lemon would. Once

25:11

you've got those 100 grams in, you are going

25:14

to have a lovely white, firm meringue. Get another

25:16

100 grams of icing sugar into it. Treat

25:18

it like any other meringue that you would. It's totally

25:21

food safe. It will take any color that you want

25:23

to throw at it. You can put angel delight in

25:25

it. You can put chocolate into it. It doesn't matter,

25:27

you will not hurt this stuff. Bake

25:29

it in an oven, little meringues. If you're

25:31

doing little ones, two hours at 115 degrees, turn

25:35

the oven off, leave the meringue in the oven until

25:37

the oven has gone stone cold. You'll

25:40

never go near an egg again. I

25:42

mean, obviously it has the benefit also of

25:44

being vegan. Is there

25:46

any back toast from its

25:48

origin? I'd defy anybody to

25:51

tell me a taste of chickpeas once you've got a

25:53

little bit of citric acid in it, and

25:55

200 grams of sugar. Let's assume that we've got

25:58

ourselves some lovely whipped meringue. What would you like

26:00

to do with it? Nisha? They're

26:02

just such otherworldly things, aren't they? And what I

26:04

love about many of the meringue dishes across Europe

26:06

is the names that they have. I think they're

26:08

commensurate with how otherworldly they are. So for instance,

26:11

they're the floating islands, which is a French

26:13

dessert. It's actually Julia Charles' favorite

26:15

dessert. And that's, you know, you've got

26:17

stiff egg whites. And you actually poach them

26:19

in milk so that then they expand. They

26:22

remain nice and soft. And then you

26:24

set them on a cold, gourd creme

26:26

anglaise. And that's a fantastic dessert. And

26:29

in Hungarian, which of course is my

26:31

sort of in-laws' backgrounds, they call that

26:33

bird milk. And another French name for

26:35

it was eggs in the snow. It's

26:37

just all of this really diaphanous, wonderful

26:39

wording around meringues. There's also a

26:42

really lovely baked apple dessert, Hungarian

26:44

again, and it's called witches froth.

26:46

So what you do, particularly winter apples, if

26:48

you bake them and then you puree the

26:50

flesh, and then you combine that flesh with

26:53

those soft meringues with a bit of rum,

26:55

a bit of lemon, and

26:57

then you set that, you leave it to cool,

27:00

and then you top it with froth. It's a lovely way

27:02

of treating meringues in quite a different way. There

27:05

you go, Claire. Everything you ever wanted to know about

27:07

meringue. Thank you very much. Thank you. We

27:10

have time for one last question from Bernie

27:12

Flood from Ellesmere Port. Hello

27:14

panel. Would you rather go without

27:16

a starter or a sweet? Right,

27:19

binary answers here. Rob,

27:23

are you going starter savory or are you going

27:25

sweet? You can only have one. It depends on

27:27

the menu, doesn't it? Yeah. Crap,

27:29

that's not fair without looking. Um, today's

27:32

dessert, I'm going with dessert. OK, Nisha?

27:35

I would very often order a starter as

27:37

a dessert, so I'll go without sweet. Sophie?

27:40

Yeah, I'm exactly the same. I'd have

27:42

double starter, one name no food. OK,

27:44

Amy? I don't care about dessert. All I

27:47

care about is whether there's cheese. LAUGHTER I

27:50

think we have to finish this

27:52

with a very important audience poll.

27:55

So, if you are a starter

27:57

person, shout starter after 3. three?

28:00

Starters! And if you are a

28:02

sweet person after three, one, two,

28:05

three? Sweets! I

28:07

think the starters have it. Well

28:10

that's exciting isn't it? It's always

28:12

important that we learn these things

28:14

and in a very scientific and

28:16

democratic way. That's

28:18

it for this first show of the series.

28:20

We'll be back next week when we'll be

28:22

in the world's first garden city which is

28:24

Letchworth. Until then, do stay in touch. We'll

28:26

be gathering your questions, tips and photos, evidencing

28:29

your kitchen trials and disasters for a post-bag

28:31

edition of the programme later in the

28:33

series. Do send them to tkc at

28:35

bbc.co.uk. But for now, it's goodbye from

28:37

me, Jay Rayner, Sophie Wright, Nisha Katona,

28:39

Rob Owen-Brown, Dr Annie Gray and our

28:41

audience here in Chester. Mom

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deserves the best and there's no

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