0:03

Hello and welcome back to another

0:06

episode of the Schneidtsis podcast. This

0:08

week we dive into cheating and we

0:10

talk to a therapist all about cheating,

0:12

why people cheat, the human behavior, why

0:14

people cheat, can we be recovered and

0:17

what we can look out for in someone that is

0:19

a serial cheater. So

0:22

you will know that within this podcast we

0:24

do talk about therapy and about recovering

0:26

from the breakup, recovering

0:29

from cheating within the relationship and

0:31

how impactful therapy can be. And

0:33

if you're someone who has dealt with infidelity in their

0:35

life, whether it be parents,

0:39

yourself or within your own relationship, I

0:41

highly recommend therapy to get you through and get the

0:43

tools you need. And you can

0:46

get 10% off your first month with BetterHelp

0:48

and you can use betterhelp.com slash

0:51

schneid. That is betterhelp.com

0:53

slash schneid. It was something that was

0:55

very, very helpful for me after

0:58

being cheated on and I felt like my self-esteem

1:01

was really, really racked after and

1:03

I felt like I built it up within the therapy. So

1:05

I cannot recommend therapy enough

1:08

for dealing with infidelity in

1:10

all wakes of life.

1:12

Hello and welcome to another episode of

1:14

the Schneidtsis podcast. This week

1:16

we are diving into the topic of cheating.

1:19

You guys have asked for it. Lots

1:21

of people have dealt with it. There is so

1:23

many questions on it. So today we're going to dive right

1:25

in with Dr. Tari Mack, who

1:28

is a clinical psychologist, celebrity love consultant

1:30

and resident therapy on the Open

1:32

House podcast. She's appeared on Access

1:35

Hollywood, Daytime Chicago and in Glamour

1:37

and Cosmopolitan giving relationship advice

1:39

to a global audience. And

1:41

I actually found you on TikTok. I just

1:44

started following you. You were talking about things

1:46

that I was interested in, relationships, cheating,

1:49

human behavior, and I was just started

1:51

to follow you. And then when I

1:53

was following you, then I was just like, I need to get this girl on the podcast

1:56

because she has so much expertise

1:58

on things like relationship. advice and

2:01

especially cheating come up a lot. And I was really, really

2:04

interested in, I've listened to a few of the podcasts. I've open

2:06

house, I really loved it. So if anyone's looking for

2:08

a new podcast, like that was the user diving

2:11

into like loads of things like

2:12

celebrity relationships and

2:15

fighting conflict, cheating, like I was

2:17

just loving it. So if anyone wanted

2:19

to try a new podcast, open house podcast. So

2:21

hello and welcome to the Sinead says podcast.

2:25

We are mostly an Irish basis could be

2:27

a whole different ball game over here for you.

2:29

But, um,

2:30

yeah, like talk us a little bit about what

2:32

you do and, you know, why you got

2:34

into this profession, et cetera. Yeah.

2:37

Well, thanks for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

2:40

Any audience I can speak to about love,

2:42

dating, relationships, healing, I'm

2:45

in. Um, so my name is

2:47

Dr. Terry. I'm a clinical psychologist

2:49

and I've been in private practice for

2:51

over 25 years, but in

2:54

the last 10 years, I've really come to focus on

2:56

dating relationships and

2:58

love because so many

3:00

people struggle to a find a

3:03

healthy partner, be,

3:05

be a healthy partner and see build

3:07

a healthy relationship because

3:09

these are not skills or tools

3:11

that we are taught. And if you

3:14

read anything I've written or watch any

3:16

videos that I've put out

3:19

our adult relationship patterns

3:22

are a result of our childhood,

3:24

right? The templates, the models that

3:26

we learned in childhood, the roles we

3:29

took on then we will continue

3:31

to play all of that out as adults

3:33

until we start to do some of the

3:36

healing work that allows us to grow

3:38

up a lot of our roles,

3:40

behaviors,

3:41

thoughts, patterns. So

3:44

yeah, I could talk about this all day. Yeah.

3:47

And then this week I want to talk about

3:49

cheating and I've actually been looking for someone

3:51

to come on and talk about cheating for a long time because it's

3:53

something that I'm personally passionate about learning,

3:55

like the human behavior behind cheating.

3:58

And like when I looking at the stats, like

4:01

it's crazy how many people deal with

4:03

infidelity in their lives, whether it be with

4:05

a family member, whether it be within their own relationship.

4:08

But I think the last time I looked at was 70%

4:10

of people have dealt with infidelity in their life,

4:12

which is crazy. And if you're the other 30%, he

4:14

never dealt with it. Lucky you. But

4:17

I am someone who personally was affected by

4:19

infidelity to the point where it sort of took

4:22

my sense of self. It was kind of just like

4:24

took over my whole world

4:26

of yeah, it was probably more to do with like me and

4:29

how it affected me. But when

4:31

I got cheated on and was like,

4:34

you're not laughing or anything like that, but

4:36

I personally went into like the

4:38

deaths of despair. And I felt like it was,

4:40

it honestly felt like one of the, it was one of the worst

4:43

feelings I've ever felt in my entire life. And it continued

4:45

on for a year, two years of trying

4:47

to get over that. And

4:50

something that really helped me get over

4:52

it was the, like I had to search

4:54

for my own closure because for

4:56

me, I couldn't understand why a happy relation,

4:59

we were in a happy relationship and we were in love. And

5:01

someone would do that to someone that they are happy

5:03

with and in love with, because for me, it

5:05

felt like we were the perfect couple, everything

5:07

was perfect. And then this just happened out of the blue, which

5:10

later down the line that obviously didn't happen. But,

5:12

you know, the closure that really happened for me was learning

5:15

about the human behavior of why people cheat.

5:18

And it made me look at

5:20

the relationship, the human behavior, maybe look at my

5:22

own behavior, his behavior, and understand

5:24

that it's not me. I like,

5:26

because obviously you go down that spiral of what, what

5:28

did I not give? Was it not my fault? Was it my fault,

5:30

et cetera, et cetera. But I actually

5:33

read that book, State of Affairs.

5:35

Have you ever read that?

5:36

I haven't. No, but no. Is

5:39

that Ester Peril?

5:40

Ester Peril, yeah. Which is a very different

5:42

way to look at things. But she talks about

5:45

all the reasons why people cheat. And

5:47

I started to see, you know, my own behavior,

5:49

my partner's, my ex partner's behavior, et cetera. And

5:52

it started to give me my own closure. Because

5:54

sometimes when you're sitting in that aspect

5:57

of just after being cheated on, you're just like, why?

5:59

like, how could this happen? I think that's kind

6:02

of like the worst state I was in. So learning

6:04

about this, why people cheat. So

6:07

like, what would you... Well, first of all, you

6:09

have sort of defined cheating in your relationship, because

6:11

obviously there's different types of relationships.

6:13

There's, you know, because some people will text me being

6:15

like, I find my boyfriend, taxing

6:17

someone. And, you know, that's

6:19

sort of as same as cheating as well. So it's sort

6:22

of defining what cheating is in your boundaries and

6:24

the relationship, I suppose. And then,

6:26

so

6:26

what would you define as cheating? I suppose it depends

6:29

on the person, I guess.

6:31

I mean, I think it, A, it's up for the couple

6:34

to decide, but B, the

6:36

way that I define cheating is anything

6:38

that you're doing that

6:40

with someone else that

6:42

you wouldn't want your partner to know

6:44

about.

6:45

Because if you're trying to keep something

6:47

a secret like that, you know for yourself

6:50

that it's crossing a line, whether

6:52

it's texting, pictures,

6:55

talking, flirting, you

6:58

know, there's that secrecy,

7:00

I think is a really important piece because

7:02

the one of the most

7:05

painful parts about having

7:07

your partner cheat on you is the

7:09

betrayal,

7:11

right? The not knowing the surprise.

7:14

So again, different

7:16

people can have different boundaries,

7:19

but in general, if you're doing something

7:22

that you know your partner would

7:24

not like or would be disrespectful

7:26

to your partner,

7:28

for me, that's kind of where I draw

7:30

the boundary. Yeah. And

7:33

then can we just dive into like

7:35

all the reasons why people cheat?

7:37

Or what do you think? Yes,

7:40

there are a lot. So, you know,

7:41

some

7:44

people are serial cheaters.

7:46

So there are people that haven't

7:49

just cheated on their partner once or

7:51

haven't just cheated on a partner once,

7:53

but this is a pattern of behavior. And in

7:56

those cases, sometimes

7:59

it can point to to a personality disorder

8:01

like narcissism, sociopathy,

8:04

these personality disorders that are

8:06

characterized by a lack of empathy,

8:08

you know, they're not thinking about

8:11

how this is gonna make you feel or the impact

8:13

on you, lack

8:15

of impulse control, a sense of entitlement,

8:18

like they're gonna get their needs met no matter who

8:21

it hurts. So I like

8:23

to differentiate between repeat

8:25

cheaters and then people who

8:27

maybe cheat, but

8:29

weren't looking to cheat. And

8:31

then in that category,

8:34

some people cheat and they'll

8:36

go on to do it again, if

8:38

they don't understand why they did

8:40

it. And some people just do it once. So one

8:43

of the main reasons that people cheat

8:45

is there's an issue

8:48

in the relationship. And instead of knowing how

8:50

to address it and bring that

8:52

to the surface and talk to their partner about it, they

8:55

go outside of the relationship, right?

8:57

So if they're not, if they feel like their needs aren't getting

8:59

met in the relationship, instead of talking to their

9:02

partner about it, they go get their needs

9:04

met by somebody else, whether that's just validation,

9:07

feeling desirable. The

9:09

second reason people cheat is opportunity.

9:12

So

9:12

maybe you just start out, you start

9:15

flirting with a coworker because it feels

9:17

good. But if the

9:19

opportunity presents itself, that can

9:21

lead to crossing a physical boundary,

9:23

right? Sometimes

9:26

people cheat because again, they

9:28

don't have an internal sense

9:31

of validation. So maybe they're

9:33

not feeling validated in the relationship.

9:35

So they're open to whoever will pay them

9:38

attention. Those are some of the

9:40

major ones. Sometimes

9:43

people cheat because they're emotionally

9:45

immature. They don't

9:48

know how to go to the

9:50

relationship and say, this is how I'm feeling.

9:53

This is what I need. This is bothering

9:55

me.

9:56

In fact, maybe they feel like they can't do that.

9:59

So they seek. out somebody else. Yeah

10:03

and like even when I was like reading books

10:05

on cheating etc like especially that

10:07

when I was reading the book The State of Affairs she talks about

10:09

like her whole job is to help people

10:12

after infidelity to see if they

10:14

reconcile etc and like some of the cases

10:16

are very good because

10:18

the couple firstly are emotionally

10:21

immature in terms of they don't talk about their relationship

10:23

they don't talk about their needs their wants but

10:25

when something massive and drastic and traumatic happens

10:28

there's so much open conversations

10:30

to happen and especially whenever

10:33

they have this fear of loss so when

10:35

they think they're going to lose someone like they start to open

10:37

up they start to have these conversations but

10:39

when I was reading that book like there obviously is this you

10:42

know you're you're looking at it and you're like okay yes it can

10:45

be recovered because all these conversations can

10:47

come out and you can grow and

10:49

become better and you can see in some instance

10:51

that people do grow and become better

10:53

in the relationship because like they're able to open up

10:55

but what about actually having the

10:57

emotional maturity before it happens

11:00

like how do we get to that point where

11:02

we're talking about our needs we're talking about our wants

11:05

like

11:06

in my own personal experience as well with cheating

11:08

when I when I looked back I was like we never talked about

11:10

our needs and wants we were so young we were so immature

11:13

and like you know what I found out later was

11:15

he was very insecure and he didn't know

11:17

how to bring it to me so that

11:19

was his way of self sabotaging like you know I'm

11:22

gonna do it first so so she doesn't hurt

11:24

me and it was all for me it looked

11:26

like was like unconscious um

11:29

so yeah like how do we even like

11:31

when I was reading these books I was like but why can't

11:33

we start now why can't we start the conversations

11:36

before this happens so when I look

11:38

back when I reflected on my own

11:40

relationship where that person cheated I was like did

11:43

I ever ask him is he uh reassured

11:46

did I ever ask him is he secure like I really didn't

11:49

so even like learning from that relationship

11:51

of cheating when I was younger has really

11:54

flooded into my new relationships like we

11:56

always have conversations like do you feel secure is there anything

11:59

I need to do

11:59

But I definitely know that that is such a struggle for

12:02

people. Like, I'm just one of the people that obviously

12:04

likes relationship reviews and will

12:06

have open conversations. Although my boyfriend's

12:08

not massively entirely obsessed with it. He's

12:11

involved. But

12:14

yeah, how do we start these conversations so it

12:16

doesn't go down that road? Yeah,

12:19

I think the first step is really doing

12:21

your own work to understand yourself,

12:24

because, you know, you're talking about your ex having

12:27

these insecurities.

12:28

He may not even have been aware of

12:30

those insecurities enough to bring them

12:33

to you. Right. So before

12:35

we even do a relationship check in,

12:37

we need to start doing self check ins.

12:40

And a lot of work that I do with people is helping

12:43

them

12:44

check in internally, because so much

12:46

of our world is externally focused. We

12:48

think, OK, if we get this car, we wear these

12:50

clothes, we find this person. But

12:52

that's all external to us. We've never

12:55

been taught to say,

12:56

you know, throughout the day, like, how am I

12:59

feeling? What do I need? So

13:01

working on your own self awareness

13:04

and relationship with yourself is going to make

13:06

you a more equipped partner. And

13:09

then when you start dating and you're

13:11

in the dating world,

13:13

you can assess how

13:16

self-aware someone is when you

13:18

bring these things up. Like you could ask questions

13:20

like what's important to you in a partner.

13:23

When you're in a relationship, you can ask, like,

13:26

you know, what are the things I do that make you feel

13:28

loved?

13:29

Are there things I do that don't make you

13:31

feel loved or make you feel insecure?

13:34

You know, and

13:36

some people will be able to engage in those

13:39

conversations and some people will

13:41

just make jokes. So they'll be like, why are we talking

13:43

about this? Or they'll just disengage completely.

13:46

Those people are not ready

13:49

to build a healthy relationship.

13:53

Right. So and the other thing is, I talk

13:55

a lot about pacing, it takes a very long

13:57

time to really get to know who somebody

13:59

is.

13:59

And the problem is we typically

14:02

find someone, and

14:04

if there's mutual attraction, we jump right in. We're

14:06

in, we're like off to the races, and then we get

14:08

disappointed three months in because

14:11

we find out this person doesn't know how to do

14:13

conflict or repair after conflict,

14:16

you know, or they aren't trustworthy. So

14:19

slowing down, taking your time, knowing

14:21

yourself, and then having

14:23

these conversations and paying attention

14:25

to how

14:26

the other person responds are some of

14:28

the things I would say that will help

14:31

you choose a good partner and

14:33

be a good partner. And

14:36

that is easier said than done because

14:38

obviously people do use other

14:40

humans to self-soothe their validations. So

14:43

when they get into a relationship and they're filled with

14:45

being needed and being wanted. But

14:47

I suppose as well, like these are the mistakes that we need to

14:49

make. Like all the mistakes that I've

14:52

ever made in my relationship have brought me to an amazing

14:54

relationship because I've learned from all the mistakes. But

14:56

when someone does actually cheat,

15:00

do you, obviously there is what you call serial cheaters, which

15:03

is like, you know, personality disorders, narcissistic

15:05

tendencies. First of all, actually, how

15:07

could we watch out for those? And,

15:10

you know, the likes of like Tristan Thomas,

15:13

like that's a bit, you know, it

15:16

keeps happening, it's coming back, there's no, and

15:19

it's crazy because they probably have access to so

15:21

much therapists and they're probably in the therapy

15:23

room all the time, but yet it's not really being

15:25

solved. Is that, would that be like

15:28

something that you would say like as a personality disorder, like

15:30

it keeps happening? Yeah,

15:33

I mean, personality disorders are pervasive

15:36

patterns, right? So

15:38

the kind of things you need to watch out for

15:41

when you're dating or in a relationship

15:44

is patterns of behavior. Nobody's

15:47

perfect. But if somebody

15:49

shows a lack of empathy,

15:52

which means when you bring your feelings to them

15:54

or you say, hey, that bothered me,

15:57

how do they respond to that? Are they...

15:59

thankful that you brought it to their attention?

16:02

Do they want to understand more? Or

16:04

are they defensive? Do they blame you

16:06

for having the feelings? And

16:09

does nothing change as a result?

16:12

And again, this is why I say you have to observe

16:14

people over time. People

16:17

with personality disorders, I mean, narcissism

16:20

is not the only personality disorder. There's borderline

16:22

personality disorder, there's dependent personality

16:25

disorder.

16:26

And if you're paying attention, you're

16:28

going to be able to see that

16:31

these patterns of behavior, something's going

16:33

to start to feel off,

16:35

right? But in talking about cheating,

16:38

the narcissist or the sociopath are

16:40

the...

16:41

Sociopathy isn't a personality

16:43

disorder, but it's still a pervasive

16:46

kind of disorder where

16:48

you see these patterns over time, a

16:50

lack of empathy,

16:53

a lack of integrity, dishonesty,

16:57

no accountability. This is huge for

16:59

sociopaths and narcissists.

17:02

They're never going to admit they're wrong about anything.

17:05

And even if you catch them doing

17:07

something wrong, they're not going to own up to it.

17:10

They're going to somehow blame you for it or

17:12

deny it.

17:13

Again, if we're so caught up

17:16

in the chemistry and the attraction of

17:18

someone, we easily just overlook

17:20

these red flags, but then we end up with somebody

17:22

who isn't providing a safe space and won't

17:25

be a safe partner.

17:27

Does that make sense? Yeah, for

17:29

sure.

17:30

Again, easier said than done when you have the chemistry

17:32

and you are in love, it's going to also be very

17:34

difficult. But obviously, if someone is

17:37

cheating over and over and over again, that

17:39

is a sign, do you really want to be constantly

17:42

going through this pain and hurt? I

17:45

just think once,

17:47

yeah, maybe there can be rekindle or

17:50

maybe you can figure it out and like someone's

17:52

done for twice, three times, it's kind of like, where

17:54

do you draw the line with this? And how

17:56

can you...

17:58

I suppose if someone is literally and

18:00

they're being cheated on and

18:02

it's probably more than three times,

18:05

two times. What would your

18:07

advice be to your

18:09

like, your like, Ron? Yeah,

18:13

I would say once. So

18:15

actually at Open House, we make

18:18

therapy guides and one is called, I was

18:20

cheated on now what? Should I stay or should I go? I

18:22

have a very hard stance

18:24

about this because I've worked with

18:26

this so often.

18:28

Sometimes a client that I'm working

18:30

with gets cheated on, right?

18:32

And they're like, what should I do? I don't want to leave.

18:36

Can I trust them? Can we

18:38

rebuild this? And there are very clear

18:40

signals about if this relationship

18:43

can be rebuilt. I won't go through

18:45

all of them, but the biggest one, the biggest

18:48

two, I would say are, does this

18:50

person show remorse

18:53

and admit what they did was wrong?

18:55

And B, are they committed

18:58

to rebuilding trust

19:00

no matter how long that takes? And

19:03

that includes probably going

19:05

to therapy or couples therapy to understand

19:08

why did this happen? Why did I choose

19:11

this? Now, yeah, some

19:13

people will say all the right things, but then

19:15

after a month or two, they're like, oh, can't

19:17

you just get over it? Or they get defensive

19:20

or they're impatient or they stop going to therapy.

19:23

That is not the sign of somebody

19:25

who's really invested in rebuilding

19:27

this relationship and rebuilding

19:29

trust. If somebody's cheated on you twice,

19:32

it is now a pattern of behavior. And

19:34

guess what? What you tolerate will continue.

19:37

This is not going to stop. Yeah.

19:40

That's

19:40

what I would say about that. Yeah.

19:42

And then there is there

19:45

is loads of evidence as well. And

19:47

like these books that I'm reading, et cetera, for,

19:50

you know, it working after

19:52

cheating and like if you've been cheated on. So

19:55

maybe the cheated on ones, et cetera. And like one

19:57

of the obvious things is like actually

19:59

knowing why you.

19:59

cheated. It's like the main

20:02

source so you can

20:04

understand why and then you can rebuild

20:06

the relationship around why this has happened.

20:09

But yeah,

20:10

like how can we like is

20:13

it possible to come back and what are the signs

20:15

it can come back from this? Yeah,

20:18

I think that's one of the major signs

20:20

if somebody cheated and they're,

20:23

and they are open to understanding

20:25

why, why did I choose this?

20:28

How did I let this happen? And

20:31

normally that's only going to be really

20:33

understood through therapy.

20:35

So again, if they're committed to doing

20:38

that healing work, which is not always comfortable,

20:41

but that is the only safeguard.

20:44

If somebody let's say you start dating someone

20:46

and they say, Oh, yeah, I cheated on my last partner,

20:49

or I cheated on my last three partners. I

20:52

would hope that they would say, but you know what, I've

20:54

done some work and I understand this

20:56

is why and I'm committed to never doing

20:59

that again. That's very different than someone saying,

21:01

Yeah, I cheated, but it wasn't a very good relationship.

21:03

And,

21:04

you know, I would never do that to you. There

21:07

has to be some understanding

21:11

of the root cause and

21:14

some new plan of

21:16

action in place, a new skill, a

21:18

new tool, a new self understanding

21:20

or a wound that needs healing

21:23

so that that person knows

21:25

how to make a different choice next time. Otherwise,

21:29

you know, anyone can say, Oh, I didn't mean it, I'll never

21:31

do it again. But

21:33

if you did it once, you

21:35

can do it again. Yeah.

21:37

And also, like, it's, it's actually crazy

21:40

how common cheating is, like, especially

21:42

within the beginning of a relationship, there's a lot of people who, you know,

21:45

aren't in relationships who, you

21:47

know, they sway, etc. But I think sometimes,

21:49

like, they usually the

21:51

fear of loss usually brings them back, etc.

21:54

And I'm someone as well that like, I've been on

21:56

both ends of the spectrum in terms of cheating, like I

21:59

have not but not I've never cheated, but I

22:01

have actually been cheated on and never ever took

22:03

them back, but I've also took somebody back that did cheat.

22:06

And it's

22:07

a funny one because obviously sometimes

22:09

it's completely against your morals and it's against

22:12

everything that you believe in, et cetera. But I

22:15

don't know about you, but learning about

22:17

the human behavior of why

22:20

people cheat, you start to have this compassion. And

22:22

I think that's what happened to me. I think I kind of knew

22:24

that I could rebuild it. And

22:27

to be honest, it's hard

22:29

because there's all different types of cheating. There's

22:31

obviously the full blown sex.

22:34

I've actually just been cheated on like

22:36

a kiss. For

22:39

me, I was like, this is not worth my

22:41

relationship being over. And I know some people might think that

22:44

is crazy to me, is crazy to them

22:46

to think that I would take someone back, but I just

22:48

think I felt like I could

22:50

understand why that happened and I

22:52

could work and rebuild it. And to be honest, it's

22:55

funny because people are like, do you ever regret taking that person

22:57

back? And I was like, well, we're not together

22:59

now, but at the time I don't feel like we broke up because of

23:01

that. I feel like I fully rebuilt

23:03

that relationship. For me, it was very, very

23:05

drunk and insecure of him to

23:07

do that. And I felt like he deserved

23:10

more than, especially within a relationship.

23:13

I feel like there was nothing that

23:14

was ever massively wrong. You never done anything

23:16

wrong. And I felt like I could personally rebuild

23:18

that. And I felt

23:20

like I really did. And I think

23:23

sometimes things come up

23:25

for a reason. That came up for us to talk

23:27

about, to understand, to feel what's actually going

23:30

through his head. But then there's also times

23:32

where

23:33

the excuse for cheating is, I

23:35

was drunk. I have no idea what happened. How

23:38

do we deal with that excuse?

23:40

Because when people ask me this as well,

23:42

he

23:44

just says, he or

23:46

she just says, oh, I was just drunk. I was fucked. I don't

23:48

remember blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, which is very

23:51

hard to rebuild when you don't know the reason why.

23:53

And you have to just feel like, well,

23:55

they're just really, really drunk and don't remember.

23:59

Well, what I say is that what's going to happen the next time

24:01

this person gets drunk? Like for

24:03

me, that would be a real

24:06

emotional safety issue. If this person plans

24:09

to keep drinking, that means it could

24:11

happen again. I personally

24:13

don't think

24:14

being drunk is an

24:17

excuse for cheese. Yeah. Right.

24:19

And if somebody cheats really

24:21

because they're drunk and they, you know,

24:24

had a lack in a lapse of judgment,

24:27

what are they going to do to make

24:30

you feel safe after that? Something

24:32

has to shift, right? Yeah.

24:35

So what kind of like what's

24:38

that? Like what could they do? They

24:42

could maybe look at. I

24:46

mean, that's a tough one. They could look at their drinking behavior.

24:49

Don't put themselves in situations

24:52

where that could happen. I mean, they would have

24:54

to be accommodations made

24:56

that they wholeheartedly want to make,

24:59

because if they're saying, I only cheated

25:01

because I was drunk, that means

25:03

when they get drunk, they're vulnerable to cheat.

25:06

Yeah, they're basically telling you like they

25:09

won't say it, but it could happen

25:11

again next time I get drunk. And

25:13

it's not my fault.

25:15

Yeah. And like I

25:17

it's crazy to think because, you know, if something like that ever

25:19

happened to me and I didn't remember, I would actually

25:21

probably never be able to drink again because I wouldn't be able to deal

25:24

with that. Like I, you know, like if you love someone

25:26

so much and you don't ever want that to happen again,

25:28

you would be so scared. So like you would just literally

25:31

fix the issue of the drinking.

25:33

So, you know what I mean? Like, I really don't want

25:35

people to settle for that excuse. If anyone's listening

25:37

and have cheated, like, you know, I'm just I just got drunk

25:40

and what you have to just sit there and take it and like never

25:42

have to work on it just because they don't

25:45

remember.

25:45

It doesn't seem right. And

25:47

the worst thing is like if I was if I was in my

25:49

mind, get really, really drunk, like

25:51

I don't do things like that. You know, it's not like there

25:54

really is no excuse. No.

25:57

Yeah. Let's just say like someone has cheated and

25:59

they are willing to.

25:59

to rebuild the trust and they're in the

26:02

relationship or they're in the therapy room with

26:04

you as a couple, what

26:07

kind of things do people need to

26:09

hear and do? I know

26:11

that

26:12

there's two different types of questions of when

26:15

you're after being cheated on. I think it's investigative

26:18

questions or detective and detective questions. I

26:20

think detective questions are like the

26:22

bad ones, like were they good in bed?

26:25

Like, things that you just really shouldn't know, like

26:28

when, where, was it in our beds? And

26:30

then you've got like the investigative questions

26:32

that will really get to the record, which is like,

26:35

what did you get from this affair that

26:37

you couldn't get in our relationship? What did you

26:39

need out of the relationship that I can't

26:41

give you?

26:42

Like, I know that there's like these different questions

26:45

that can rebuild, but like,

26:47

what would you do in your therapy room? So

26:50

normally the person who has been cheated

26:52

on, is very emotional.

26:54

They're going through these feelings of betrayal. And

26:57

sometimes they do want to ask those

26:59

detective questions. They want

27:01

the details. I always warn

27:03

them,

27:04

getting the answers may

27:07

make you feel worse. But again,

27:09

sometimes people want to know

27:11

some of those things.

27:13

So I would allow any questions

27:15

to be asked. After

27:18

a certain point, when the details have been

27:20

shared, that's when I would

27:23

encourage us to move to the next questions,

27:26

because

27:27

it's sort of just prolonging the suffering

27:29

if you're staying in that loop

27:32

of like, were they better in bed

27:34

than me? You know, like, what

27:36

was it like to kiss him or her? You know,

27:39

in the beginning, I think those questions

27:42

are completely valid because we're in a very

27:44

emotional state. We've just been betrayed.

27:46

We want to get answers. But

27:48

in order to rebuild a relationship,

27:51

the person who's been cheated on

27:54

at some point has to commit

27:56

to trusting again, right?

27:59

So... the point of

28:01

rebuilding is to rebuild trust.

28:05

So eventually we want to move on

28:07

from those like detail oriented questions

28:09

to the more relationship oriented questions

28:12

that you were talking about, about the relationship

28:15

specifically, why did this

28:17

happen, you know, what does this say

28:19

about like the couple themselves and

28:21

how to move forward.

28:23

I will also say that sometimes

28:26

somebody who has been cheated on,

28:28

the couple will come to me and after

28:31

months of work, even though

28:34

let's say both people are really committed to the process,

28:37

sometimes the person who has been cheated

28:40

on just cannot

28:42

move past it.

28:43

Yeah, the trust is just

28:46

so

28:47

breached. And so,

28:49

you know, and that's okay too. Because

28:52

the person who

28:54

cheated has to understand that

28:57

they caused this

28:59

breach of trust, they're starting at

29:02

ground zero again.

29:04

But really, it's

29:06

just about, I always say

29:08

like once a couple, once there's

29:10

infidelity, the couple is now starting a

29:12

new relationship.

29:14

And so discovering, like you were saying, you know,

29:17

what can we learn from this? How can

29:19

we communicate better? What

29:21

needs do we both have? And how are they going to

29:23

get met? How can we be more

29:25

honest with each other?

29:27

Those are the kinds of questions that are going to help

29:30

rebuild.

29:32

Yeah. And then there obviously

29:34

is a difference between someone who can

29:36

rebuild and someone who can't. And, you

29:38

know, there was one opportunity

29:41

that I rebuilt, but then there's another

29:43

opportunity where the disrespect

29:45

was too bad that it wasn't even, you

29:48

know, to not even...

29:51

Like for me, it was just like, it

29:54

was just too far. Like there was

29:56

no... And it was also really crazy

29:58

because of how the relationship...

29:59

was like, and

30:02

it's like, why do happy people cheat?

30:04

Seems bizarre, doesn't

30:07

it? Like whenever a happy relationship and someone

30:09

usually cheats, you

30:11

know? Well, you mentioned it earlier, self-sabotage.

30:17

Sometimes people can't tolerate

30:20

a happy, healthy, peaceful relationship.

30:25

Again, it goes back to childhood. If our nervous systems

30:27

grew up in a chaotic environment

30:29

and we always had to fight

30:32

for love, work for love, or keep people at a distance

30:34

or protect ourselves. If we haven't done

30:36

any work, if we find ourselves

30:39

in a happy, easy relationship, that's not going

30:43

to feel safe or

30:46

familiar to us. So we find a way

30:48

to screw it up. So

30:51

that is also a very important point. Do

30:54

you think that some cheaters

30:56

are learned patterns? Yeah,

31:01

I think especially

31:03

people that repeatedly cheat, I think they

31:06

are afraid of intimacy. True intimacy

31:08

is deeply being seen by

31:13

another person, letting another person

31:15

really know you. But a lot

31:18

of people

31:19

don't feel lovable, or in

31:21

childhood, if they really

31:23

showed how they felt, they were punished,

31:25

they were ignored or dismissed or

31:27

something bad happened. So they're going

31:29

to make sure that never happens again.

31:32

And sometimes you can learn cheating

31:34

if a parent cheated. If that's

31:36

what you saw your dad doing or your

31:38

mom doing, that's how you,

31:41

you know, again, it might be unconscious,

31:44

but we replay what we know. So

31:46

what about in terms of,

31:48

you know, if you're in therapy, in

31:51

therapy with someone

31:53

who has cheated and they feel the skills

31:56

and, you know, they have these

31:58

learned patterns.

31:59

do you help people deal with the guilt

32:02

of the mistake? Well, I

32:05

guess what I would want to help them understand

32:08

is what are they trying to get

32:11

by this behavior?

32:13

Or what are they trying to avoid by

32:15

this behavior?

32:16

Because

32:17

all of our patterns of behavior are

32:20

for a reason. They're

32:22

trying to get a need met or

32:25

trying to protect us.

32:27

So a person who, if I was working

32:29

with him or her, do

32:32

you mean if they had cheated more than once and they

32:34

feel guilty? Yeah, just like in general,

32:36

if anyone makes a mistake in the relationship

32:39

of the trial in any way, how do

32:41

you help them get over the

32:44

guilt or the mistake?

32:45

Because I get that question in my inbox

32:48

all the time. People who have made really

32:52

mistakes that they feel so bad about

32:54

and they're like, how do I deal with this mistake?

32:56

How do I deal with this guilt? And how do I even

32:59

bring back the people, especially because

33:01

when they do something like this out of maybe

33:03

insecurity, whatever they're doing, I feel like they

33:06

don't realize how many people they're going to hurt. They

33:08

don't just hurt partners. They hurt their family members.

33:10

They hurt their loved ones all around them, all

33:12

their friends that knew them. And I feel like after

33:15

they do it, they're dealing with this guilt of this mistake

33:17

and also the loss of relationships,

33:20

a lot. Yeah, what I

33:22

always tell people, and I truly believe this,

33:25

that we do the best that

33:27

we can with what we know at the time.

33:30

So if somebody cheated and then

33:33

feels guilty about it, lost the relationship,

33:35

I would say, let's understand why this happened,

33:37

why you chose to do this, and we

33:40

can have compassion for that part

33:42

of you.

33:43

And also, the consequences

33:46

of that are that you lost this relationship.

33:50

And it hurts now, but you

33:52

will move on from this. I think sometimes

33:54

it's hard for people to sit with the

33:56

consequences of

33:58

their choices. But that

34:01

is just reality, right? If

34:04

we hurt someone, they might go away.

34:07

Yeah, exactly. And then hopefully

34:09

that is like a learned, you know, you can

34:11

change the behavior pattern and it can never ever

34:13

happen again. And that's, you know, if anyone's

34:16

made a mistake or it's feeling guilt, like this

34:18

whole thing of understanding

34:21

your behavior is where you begin to heal.

34:24

And I think a lot of us do

34:26

deal with insecurities and,

34:29

you know, lack of validation or self validation,

34:31

self-soothing. And sometimes we go

34:33

to,

34:34

you know,

34:35

sex with another person, we go to flirting

34:38

with another person and text with another person to

34:40

like self-soothe and validate. And it's

34:42

and it's mad because when you look at the bigger picture

34:44

and you look at all the behavior, it usually comes

34:47

down to someone who doesn't love themself.

34:49

You know, someone who's insecure

34:51

and who, you know, probably went

34:53

through stuff when they were younger or anything. I mean, it

34:56

usually does like would you say

34:58

it mostly comes down to insecurity? Yeah,

35:00

it always means you can have compassion.

35:03

Yeah. What was that?

35:05

I said like usually like when you realize that

35:07

it's an insecurity of like just someone who

35:09

wants to be loved and needed, it's almost like you

35:11

have this compassion for yourself as well.

35:14

Yes, that I mean, that's always the goal

35:17

is self-understanding self-compassion

35:19

because there's always a reason we

35:21

do what we do. And if we can look at ourselves

35:24

through a lens of compassion instead

35:26

of judgment, that's how we heal

35:28

and learn and grow. And I would

35:31

also say to someone if they cheated

35:33

and, you know, lost the relationship,

35:35

that relationship was not theirs. You

35:38

know, like the book I wrote is called Every

35:40

Relationship is a Test. Every relationship

35:43

is here to teach us something. And

35:46

not all relationships last forever. Sometimes

35:48

people come into our lives to

35:51

shine immediate, like

35:52

reflect back to us how we need to grow

35:55

and heal to help us learn a lesson. And

35:57

so just knowing that a lot of people

35:59

clearly.

35:59

to relationships, even when

36:02

it's the wrong relationship or that person

36:04

doesn't want to be with them anymore. And

36:06

that just creates a lot of suffering. But once

36:08

we understand, you know, some people are going

36:10

to come into our lives and leave and there will

36:12

always be another relationship.

36:14

And then we get to practice what we learned.

36:18

Yeah, I think that as well. I've had many relationships

36:20

that I've had loads of practice. Yeah.

36:23

I feel like this is the Neil in the head. And I feel like

36:25

I have learned all my lessons. I am

36:28

ready to rock, you know?

36:31

Yeah. And I think as well, in

36:34

terms of being cheated on, if

36:37

anyone's been cheated on before, listen to this.

36:40

Have you ever been cheated on?

36:42

Yes. Yeah. Like

36:46

it's the worst feeling. Like

36:48

your blood goes to the bottom of your feet. Your

36:50

heart just stops. Like

36:53

you begin to shake. It's such a like the

36:55

worst feeling in the world because it's so weird because

36:57

someone that you love so much or someone is so

37:00

close to you just betrayed you. And

37:02

you're in full shock, disbelief.

37:05

And it is like, it felt like it was

37:07

like my earth shattering. And it's crazy now

37:09

because I think that ever since like

37:11

that relationship that really like broke me

37:14

like that, like it's like, I've always protected myself.

37:16

Like I've always kept people at arm's length. I've always

37:18

like, I feel like that really was traumatic

37:20

for me as well. And I feel like

37:23

it took me a long, long time to get over that

37:25

and to trust other people. And

37:28

we always have that insecurity that it could just be

37:30

ripped from us. But how

37:33

do we deal with it on the other side? Like the

37:35

person that's been cheated on and how they can survive.

37:39

Honestly, sometimes

37:41

I felt like I couldn't survive. It was horrible.

37:43

So like, I wish I had more tips

37:46

and tricks

37:47

for myself at that time. And I honestly,

37:50

like you are not taught to any of

37:52

us in school. Like you're not taught when

37:54

things like this happen. And I had no tool. I just

37:56

felt awful, awful, awful. And yeah.

37:59

like, what can we tell people, like, after

38:02

this happens and how they can, you know,

38:04

rebuild their own self trust and

38:06

rebuild their life? Yeah,

38:09

well, yes. I mean, I think heartbreak

38:12

on its own is one of the most painful

38:14

things we experienced. But then cheating

38:16

on top of that, knowing that there was another

38:18

person involved, I think

38:20

is even more painful. And it's that betrayal.

38:24

What I would tell people is you will

38:26

get over this, everything in life

38:29

is temporary. And we don't feel that

38:31

way.

38:32

When we've been cheated on or a relationship

38:34

is ending. So I always remind people

38:36

like this is a really dark and

38:39

painful time, but you're not always going to feel

38:41

this way. I would encourage people,

38:44

you know, our thoughts literally

38:47

create our life and our reality. So

38:49

be very mindful of the thoughts

38:52

that you are feeding, right? So you don't

38:55

want to feed thoughts that are like, you know,

38:58

comparing yourself to that other

39:00

person that your partner cheated with, picking

39:03

yourself apart, beating yourself

39:05

up, criticizing yourself, those

39:07

thoughts are going to,

39:09

they're going to stop the healing process.

39:12

So you want to choose thoughts

39:15

that are more loving, like,

39:18

this isn't my fault. I

39:21

did the healthy thing I trusted in

39:23

a relationship, if I want to be in a healthy relationship,

39:25

I have to trust.

39:27

And it wasn't my fault that my

39:30

partner betrayed my trust. I

39:32

can trust again, I will love again. You

39:35

know, healing is a process, I would

39:37

also say, you know, sometimes, like

39:39

you were

39:42

saying, it's hard for people to know

39:45

whether to give that person another chance or not.

39:47

And so

39:47

to look for what that

39:50

other person is doing or saying,

39:52

are they remorseful? Do they understand

39:56

how much they hurt you and what this betrayal

39:58

has done to you?

39:59

Are they committed to doing the work?

40:02

If not, they are not a safe person.

40:05

You can't rebuild. And I know sometimes it's

40:07

hard to let go of a relationship

40:10

because you don't wanna be alone or you feel like you really

40:12

love that person, but every single person

40:14

deserves a partner that is a safe

40:16

place. You can lay your head on your pillow

40:19

at night and not have to worry about what they're

40:21

doing.

40:22

That is like a baseline criteria

40:24

for any relationship. Yeah.

40:28

And always remember, you know, if you've been,

40:31

I always think like if you've been cheated on and then

40:33

this person like laughed you to

40:35

be with this person, it can be so,

40:37

so, so painful. But like also

40:39

remember that this person has not even had

40:41

their, like,

40:43

they haven't even felt the pain of what you're

40:46

feeling because they're already involved in this

40:48

new relationship. So they can never learn or

40:50

understand how much they hurt someone in that other

40:53

relationship. So don't be

40:55

comparing yourself to this other person

40:57

that they're in a relationship with because we all feel sorry

40:59

for them because this person hasn't even learned

41:02

from their mistakes at all. And then, you

41:04

know,

41:05

there's all these different types of definition of love

41:07

as well. But like, I know in the

41:09

road glass traveled, I was reading the definition of

41:11

what he thinks love is. And it was like, there's

41:14

obviously falling in love, which is like all

41:17

the hormones and chemistry and all the attraction

41:19

and everything. And it's so exciting and that's falling in

41:21

love. But then real love

41:23

is being in a committed relationship.

41:26

And that is sometimes doing things that

41:28

you don't want to do. Or do you, like,

41:30

for example, like if you fancy someone or

41:32

you like someone, then the

41:34

real love is choosing

41:36

to not do that. You know what I mean?

41:38

Like you don't need to do that because you really love and

41:41

you have the

41:42

spiritual wellbeing of the other person at

41:44

hand. So that's kind of like what he defines

41:46

real love as. He's just like, you care

41:49

about the spiritual wellbeing of this other person.

41:51

So if this person truly did love,

41:53

then, you know, they would

41:56

sway against this, even though

41:58

sometimes, and sometimes we have the feeling.

41:59

right? Like sometimes we fancy

42:02

someone at work or fancy, it's like it's really

42:05

quite natural and it's about like

42:07

the willpower and also

42:09

if you're finding

42:11

that you're enjoying other people's

42:14

flirtatious or you

42:16

feel like you're swaying, like sometimes it's good to like look

42:19

at your relationship and be like okay what am I missing that I'm enjoying

42:22

this so much? Would

42:23

that be something that like we could bring our awareness to?

42:25

So even if someone's listening to us and they are

42:28

starting to enjoy the flirtatiousness

42:30

of a

42:30

co-worker or a friend or you know

42:33

liking pictures etc. I

42:36

feel like when that comes up in a relationship

42:38

for me I've been like why am

42:40

I enjoying this so much? What am I not getting

42:43

from this other relationship

42:45

that I can fix before I

42:47

can do something so stupid? It's the awareness

42:49

of you know enjoying it I suppose.

42:52

Yeah

42:53

and I think in really healthy

42:55

transparent relationships you can even bring

42:57

that to your partner and say listen

42:59

like I've been thinking about this other person

43:02

or I feel attraction towards the first.

43:04

Absolutely, absolutely

43:07

and saying like I love you

43:09

and

43:10

so

43:11

you know it bugs me and maybe

43:14

you're aware of why like maybe you're aware

43:16

of what's missing in the relationship or

43:18

maybe you're not and again like

43:21

I'm this is pretty high level not all couples

43:23

will be on this level but

43:25

that's what I would aim for couples

43:27

that can be like all right oh because let's

43:30

say your boyfriend came to you and

43:32

said you know there's

43:34

this woman at work and like

43:36

I've been noticing her and it's bothering

43:39

me because I love you and I want to be with you.

43:41

You'd

43:42

probably feel a little insecure

43:44

worried right but

43:46

then the two of you could talk and it's and

43:49

you would know that you could trust him even

43:52

more because he's bringing these things to

43:54

you. I don't know I feel like that's a hard

43:56

one I feel like that would just cause so much insecurity

43:59

like on the

43:59

necessary as well. I've even like,

44:02

you know, I've had times where in past relationships,

44:05

I've like not been attractive, but like I've enjoyed

44:07

the qualities of someone else and being like, Oh, I wish

44:10

my partner did that, etc. And

44:12

then like, that was my opportunity. I suppose

44:15

I'm a bit more emotionally aware

44:17

than my partner would be or anything like that.

44:19

So, but suppose what this is what these podcasts

44:21

are for. So if you're listening and you're feeling like this, this is

44:23

what it's for. You know, I

44:26

looked at that and being like, okay, this person that I'm

44:29

attracted to,

44:29

like, Oh, they like do very

44:32

similar things to me. They're very motivated, etc. So

44:34

like, it's like, okay, maybe I need to talk to my partner

44:37

and be like, can we do more things together that are

44:39

like, you know, like it's like having

44:41

the awareness. Like I don't think I could ever

44:43

go to my partner and be like, Hey, I fancy this guy.

44:45

Um,

44:46

what are you gonna, like, I don't know what I

44:48

suppose that would be so emotionally. Yeah.

44:50

And like, obviously as well, it depends

44:53

on like attachment types. Like, you know, my partner

44:55

is so secure. Like, I don't think he would ever get jealous

44:57

or anything, but like as more of a like

44:59

avoidant, anxious attachment type, I feel like

45:02

I would really like struggle with that.

45:04

I suppose. So I would say, you know,

45:07

yes. So let me caveat that

45:09

by saying if the relationship

45:11

is in trouble and

45:13

I think you need to bring it up, but if

45:15

the relationship isn't in trouble, I agree

45:18

with you. There's

45:19

no reason to sprinkle that in

45:21

if, if there's smooth sailing for

45:24

sure. Your own awareness is good. But

45:26

I guess in these cases I'm thinking of in my

45:28

practice, it's couples that are, you

45:30

know, in a really bad place. And

45:33

one partner isn't putting an effort

45:35

and doesn't understand the relationship

45:37

is in a really bad place. So

45:40

the other person says like, listen, this is how bad

45:42

things are. Like, I need you to pay attention

45:45

to this. So yeah, I agree.

45:48

That makes more sense. Yeah, that's worth some.

45:52

But yeah, so a few people

45:54

did ask in questions, but they are pretty

45:56

much answered. Like, you know, the questions were very

45:58

similar to what we were talking about.

45:59

talking about like, like most of them are like,

46:02

do you think wants to cheat, always to cheat? I

46:04

personally don't think that. I feel like things can be totally

46:06

recovered, especially if they've faced

46:09

loss in the past relationship,

46:12

etc.

46:13

But you don't think that either, no?

46:15

I not necessarily, I would

46:18

have to see how the person who cheated

46:20

is talking about it and reflecting on it and

46:22

what their act, what their words and behaviors

46:24

are saying. I think like most of the questions

46:27

are even like most of them are like, do you think it can be recovered?

46:29

And I think we discussed there that we do think

46:31

things can be recovered if they're willing to work on

46:34

it. And then if they're not willing to build

46:36

the trust and do the therapy and do everything,

46:38

then I

46:39

suppose that's it.

46:41

But what would be, you know, as a relationship

46:43

coach that you are like, I know you have loads

46:46

of books and you have loads of ebooks

46:48

and little things that I've had

46:50

a nosy on as well. But what would be your

46:52

top tips for just like

46:55

normal couples being in a successful relationship?

46:59

Yeah, I would say communication is

47:02

one of the most important things. And

47:04

again, like,

47:05

in order to communicate how you feel and what you

47:07

need, you have to know yourself to some degree.

47:10

Otherwise, you're not, you're

47:11

not going to be tuned into you. I think

47:15

curiosity is one of the most underused

47:18

tools in relationships. So

47:21

when our partner does something that we don't like,

47:23

or we don't understand, typically, we

47:26

create all these stories or assumptions, instead

47:28

of just saying, Hey, why do

47:30

you do that?

47:32

Like, I noticed you do this, or last

47:34

night, you said this, and I'm curious as to why

47:37

to try to understand each

47:39

other on a deeper level, instead

47:42

of expecting the person you're dating to do

47:44

everything just like you do, and to think and feel the

47:46

way you do, you're, you

47:48

should be trying to understand who they are,

47:51

what motivates them, how their

47:53

inner processes work.

47:55

That's how you really get to know somebody you have to be

47:57

willing to know somebody. willing

48:00

to ask questions and understand. And

48:02

don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to

48:04

say the truth. Like,

48:06

whatever it is. I don't know how I feel about that

48:08

or this scares me. A lot of people are

48:10

afraid they tiptoe around.

48:13

And when we tiptoe around in relationships

48:15

because we're scared of the other person leaving

48:17

or judging us, we're never going

48:20

to experience that true intimacy

48:22

of somebody really knowing and seeing us. And

48:25

if that scares you to anyone listening, then

48:27

I would start there.

48:28

Because maybe, as you were saying,

48:31

there is this fear that maybe we're unlovable

48:33

or we don't deserve

48:35

healthy love. And if that belief is

48:37

anywhere in there, it's going to be really hard to

48:40

find, create, and accept healthy

48:42

love from someone else. Yeah.

48:45

And I think as well, like, I think communication can't

48:49

be very tough for people. Like, I always talk about communication

48:51

tools. And it can be hard to get your boyfriend

48:54

to love it. I mean,

48:56

he does it anyway. He doesn't like,

48:59

he's not excited to do it. They

49:01

never love it. And then girls

49:03

always ask me, and I don't know if you don't understand

49:05

how much they get out of it, they get to voice

49:08

what they truly want as well and be left

49:10

alone in the things that they need as well. And

49:13

I know you said as well, getting to know people. But

49:16

at the end of our

49:17

relationship reviews, et cetera, we have this new

49:19

thing called AMA. So it's like, ask me anything.

49:22

So it's a nice way to get to know someone as well. So

49:24

obviously, I don't know if you've ever heard of FANOS.

49:28

It's like a technique that

49:30

I use every week. It's just like feeling affirmation,

49:33

need, ownership, and struggle.

49:35

It's like, yeah, it

49:37

can take five minutes. It can take one hour. Just

49:39

you just never know. But then

49:41

at the end, we do the, like, ask me anything.

49:43

And sometimes it's nice to know what your

49:45

partner expects and needs

49:48

in a relationship. Like, what do you

49:50

expect in a relationship, as some of the questions

49:52

that I would ask. Sometimes

49:55

I would expect hand-holding otherwise he doesn't

49:57

like hand-holding. And sometimes it's nice to know that. So

49:59

that like. you know i don't grab his hand and then

50:01

he feels uncomfortable like just random stuff

50:03

like that or like a good question to ask

50:05

your partner is like what's your biggest fear

50:08

in your relationship that's a really good question i'd

50:10

like to ask and usually like my yeah

50:13

like my fears like like no

50:15

intimacy like no cuddling like sitting on

50:17

opposite ends of the sofa like that's i

50:19

can't deal with that so like so then that's a

50:21

good opportunity for him to always be like

50:23

making sure that there's that intimacy there etc

50:26

and

50:26

so what questions would you

50:29

give to some couples to help them understand

50:32

their partner deeply

50:33

well you named some really good ones um

50:37

i would ask like what is your favorite thing about

50:39

our relationship

50:40

what do you think as a couple

50:43

we could work on or grow in what

50:46

things do i do that make you feel really loved

50:50

and think of one

50:52

more how would you describe

50:54

our relationship to other people and

50:58

we love that i feel like i need to write them down you know

51:01

so i'm like yeah i need

51:02

to just write them down but uh yeah

51:04

like thank you so much i feel like that's so important

51:07

and i really wanted to dive into that topic

51:09

of cheating just to help people overcome

51:11

it and deal with it in a different manner

51:13

rather than just dealing with it on their own so

51:16

i just want to say thank you so much for that and also can

51:18

you let us know where people can find

51:20

you and you know everything that

51:22

you've got going on like

51:24

yes so um you can find me

51:27

my website is dr terry mack terry

51:29

is t-a-r-i-m-a-c-k um

51:33

i am on the open house podcast we have a bunch

51:35

of therapy guides there's actually one that

51:38

anyone listening to this podcast would probably

51:40

really benefit from it's called

51:42

i've been cheated on should i stay or should i go

51:44

and we have another one called am

51:46

i paranoid or are they cheating we also

51:48

have one on anxious attachment emotionally

51:50

unavailable partners and

51:53

you can find all that on my instagram

51:54

which is dr terry mack as well

51:58

oh and your tiktok that's where i find you Yeah,

52:00

Dr. Terry Mack on TikTok. Dr. Terry Mack

52:02

on TikTok as well. Thank you so

52:04

much for coming. Let us know what you think and

52:07

don't forget to subscribe and give us a review.