0:07

From a cocoa puncheon. I heart radio. This

0:09

is the turning I am Erica Lance. Today

0:15

we have a bonus episode. Maybe

0:17

you remember Sister Kathleen Hughes. She

0:19

was the former MC sister who became a consecrated

0:22

virgin after she left, and I wanted

0:24

to learn more about that. If

0:26

your ears also perked up when you first heard

0:28

that Sister Kathleen was a consecrated virgin,

0:31

then this is an episode for you. We

0:34

are called to live a simple life. We

0:36

don't marry, we're chased, we

0:39

don't you know, I

0:41

have intimate relations with a man. I'm sorry

0:43

for sounding like a victorian there. This

0:46

is Jenna Cooper, and she knows a lot about

0:48

consecrated virgins because she is one. Jenna

0:51

is thirty six years old and lives in Minnesota.

0:54

I explain it to people in a practical

0:56

kind of way, as all the love

0:58

I would have given to I

1:01

say, a mortal husband. That's the only way I can really

1:03

describe it. All the love I would

1:05

have given to a mortal spouse and natural

1:08

children. I offer that

1:10

to to Jesus and to his

1:14

children, which is really everyone in

1:16

the church or all humanity. So

1:19

this episode of the turning is a little different than

1:21

most. I'm just going to have a conversation

1:23

with one person, Jenna Cooper, to

1:26

hear about her experience as a consecrated virgin,

1:28

what it is and what it means to her personally.

1:32

Jenna became a consecrated virgin thirteen years

1:34

ago. She's a cannon lawyer in Monona,

1:36

Minnesota. She also writes a blog

1:38

called sponsor Christie where she talks about

1:40

her life is a consecrated virgin. So,

1:45

Jenna, could you just explain, first

1:47

of all, what is consecrated virginity. So

1:51

there are kinds of vocations in the church. We

1:53

call them consecrated life collectively, and that's

1:55

in the same category as like nuns and sisters.

1:58

The spirituality of being a created virgin,

2:00

it's all centered around being a bride of Christ

2:03

and that sometimes people

2:05

say that sounds antiquated or it might

2:07

sound a little weird, but it actually

2:10

there's a lot of very profound

2:12

theology, and it's being available for others

2:15

but being available to the Lord in a more, much

2:17

more radical way. And it

2:19

is hard to explain, but that spousal

2:22

to mention it is really real. I mean, you really

2:24

do open your heart to the Lord, and

2:26

he he makes himself present to

2:28

you. So you know, again it's

2:30

not like, Okay, well Jesus is

2:32

my husband and I'm watching his socks like I would

2:35

for a normal husband. But you know, there really

2:37

is a presence there and a

2:39

sense, you know, that you are walking through life

2:41

with another person. Now

2:43

content created virginity actually existed

2:46

in the early Church. So what was

2:48

it like back then or what was the role back

2:50

then? So their main role

2:52

seems to have been prayer, and we

2:54

talked today about prayer and witness,

2:56

and it seems like they would have had a very similar role that

2:58

way, so you know that witness also

3:01

it extended beyond just the household

3:03

of the family of the church too. You

3:06

know, there is some evidence they would have done

3:08

active works of charity, like taking care

3:11

of the sick and the poor. So

3:13

they probably would have had a role very very

3:15

similar to nons and sisters today.

3:19

Do you feel connected to some of these

3:21

women, you know, from

3:23

early early Christianity.

3:27

It's it's crazy to me to think about this ancient

3:30

tradition that is

3:32

continuing today. Actually

3:34

I really do, and that's part of what made

3:36

me follow this path

3:39

instead of becoming a sister is

3:42

Remember when I was younger, I

3:44

used to love reading stories of the saints,

3:46

and the ones who really spoke to me the most were

3:48

these early Virgin martyr saints like St. Agnes

3:51

or St. Lucy. But I really admired

3:53

their courage and just

3:56

their singleness of purpose, and those

3:58

were the women who were most inspiring to me. And

4:01

when you join a religious community, like if

4:03

you become an on or a sister, you

4:06

know, part of joining a community is you're following

4:08

the first steps of a founder or a foundress,

4:10

and a lot of times that's a saint. And

4:12

I remember, you know, thinking like, Okay,

4:15

St. Francis is great, wonderful saint.

4:17

I don't really see myself as a Franciscan.

4:19

St. Dominic's great wonderful St. Just

4:21

really don't see myself as a daughter or St.

4:24

Dominic. And this was actually

4:26

when I first started thinking about my vocation,

4:28

when I was a teenager, and this was before

4:30

I knew that being a consecrated vision

4:33

was still a thing. But I remember thinking like, wow,

4:35

you know, those early Virgin martyr

4:37

saints, those are the ones I really feel like

4:39

I want as my sisters. But it's too

4:41

bad you can't do that anymore. So

4:44

that connection to the early Church is very important

4:47

to me my own life and spirituality.

4:50

Jenna says consecrated virginity started

4:52

to become less popular in the Middle Ages. Women

4:55

who wanted to dedicate their lives to God started

4:57

entering monasteries, and being a single

4:59

woman not living in a cloistered convent

5:01

became less common. Some

5:03

religious communities continued to consecrate

5:06

virgins so that ritual was preserved, but

5:08

it wasn't until the late twentieth century that the

5:10

vocation really had a resurgence. Today

5:13

there are an estimated five thousand consecrated

5:15

virgins. This boom came

5:18

after an update to Canon law Canon

5:20

six O four. It officially

5:22

included consecrated virginity in the same category

5:24

of religious life as religious sisters and

5:27

nuns, but there are

5:29

some distinct differences. For one,

5:31

consecrated virgins aren't in an order

5:33

or community based around a founder. They're

5:36

associated with the diocese, which is basically

5:38

a religious district. And although

5:40

Jenna says she's called to live a simple life,

5:42

she doesn't take the same vows of poverty and obedience

5:45

that nuns and religious sisters do so

5:47

for religious they don't own anything

5:50

personally. I I can own my own property.

5:53

You know, their way of living out obedience is

5:55

different, and it's different for every community,

5:57

but it's much more an emphasis on you

6:00

see the will of God and the superior as will

6:03

for you and whereas

6:05

you know for us it's a little more open

6:07

ended. So that that's one difference

6:09

as well. What was your path

6:12

to choosing this vocation?

6:15

So for me, I well, I knew well.

6:18

I grew up in a Catholic family, and

6:22

you know, we we went to Mass every Sunday.

6:24

We weren't unusually devout, but I

6:26

always really loved God and really

6:28

loved prayer. Even when I was very very

6:30

young. I remember I used to draw like

6:33

pictures of angels and I put them

6:35

in the collection basket at church because I thought that went

6:37

straight to God and I thought he'd liked my tiyes. So

6:41

I was really very pious as

6:44

a very little girl. And

6:46

when I was twelve, I just started

6:48

having experiences in prayer where I really felt

6:50

like the Lord was asking me to, you

6:53

know, to give him more, or be closer

6:55

to him, or give my life to him in a more radical way.

6:58

Wow, that's really young. Yeah,

7:00

well, you know, young vocations actually aren't that

7:02

uncommon. But you know, and when you're twelve,

7:05

that's you know, you're starting to get

7:07

older. You're seeing the world in a different way. There's

7:09

a lot of you know, identity developmental

7:11

things that are happening. Even

7:14

even at that age, though, I really did see

7:16

myself relating to God in very

7:18

spousal terms. That's obviously deepened

7:21

as I've gotten older, and it's you know, live

7:24

us out in a much more ture way than I did when I was twelve.

7:26

But I really did feel a call

7:29

to that, and I was in sixth grade.

7:31

And when you're in sixth grade, you're not gonna do anything about

7:33

that kind of call. So did

7:36

you tell anyone? Well, I think I well,

7:38

at that point, I assumed, oh, this means I'm called to

7:40

be a nun, and that's what I

7:42

knew was out there. And I think I told my parents,

7:45

and they are good

7:47

Catholics, so they'd probably be a little embarrassed

7:49

about this, but they, um, I

7:51

don't think they were thrilled with that idea. And

7:53

but you know, I was twelve, so I think they might

7:56

have assumed Okay, well she might grow out of

7:58

it. And um, I was Catholic

8:00

school to I was in eighth grade, and then I went to a

8:02

public high school. And you

8:04

know, obviously nobody's going to talk

8:06

to you about being an in a public high school. So

8:09

this is really just this deeply personal thing

8:11

for you know, I did try

8:14

telling people about it, but nobody's

8:17

really going to engage a teenager seriously

8:19

about that kind of thing. So it

8:21

was really just between me and the Lord and for

8:24

yeah, all my teen years. Then

8:26

when I was eighteen, I went

8:28

to college. And most dioceses

8:31

have like a vocation office or priest

8:34

you can call and get put in touch with different communities.

8:37

So sin as I got to college, I did that, and

8:40

I got put in touch with a few different groups of

8:42

sisters, and I went to visit what you do

8:44

when you're thinking you might have this kind

8:47

of call, And so I

8:49

remember feeling like it was a very weird cross

8:51

between dating and looking at colleges

8:53

to go do so oh my gosh,

8:56

interesting, Yeah, you

8:58

would go and stay overnight at these different rent convince.

9:00

Oh. Sometimes sometimes they have like little

9:03

retreats, you know, for like a weekend

9:05

for women who are discerning. Sometimes you

9:07

just call and visit and go for launch or

9:10

pray with the sisters. So I did

9:12

you know a few different things like that, and some communities,

9:15

you know, we're really great, and some you know, maybe

9:17

I didn't feel as interested

9:20

in right away and went away. I

9:23

was with these sisters and it

9:25

just kind of this

9:27

one group in particular. You

9:29

know, they seemed like a healthy community, and

9:32

they seemed like they love Jesus,

9:34

and you know, they were very nice. But

9:37

and I felt like I could have lived their life, but it

9:39

just really wasn't matching the way I felt called

9:41

in my heart. How

10:02

did you end up deciding to become a

10:04

consecrated Virgin? Well, I

10:06

was nineteen actually, and

10:10

I visited several communities and I just realized

10:12

it wasn't clicking, and I wasn't sure.

10:14

Have I just not found the right community yet? Um,

10:17

this is something else. And then

10:19

um, I met a

10:21

priest who was a younger priest

10:23

and he was really excited to give

10:25

me literature on vocations and stuff.

10:27

And I was really excited to get it because this was actually

10:30

I'm only thirty six, so I'm not that old, but this was actually

10:33

kind of pre the Internet getting really

10:35

really big, And at one

10:37

point he said, oh, well, would you be

10:39

interested in the part of Cannon Law on consecrated

10:42

life to read just for your own edification

10:45

And and okay, you can see how cool

10:47

I was when I was a teenager. You're

10:50

reading about consecrated life. Oh yeah, yeah.

10:52

So I was very excited to read Cannon Law

10:54

when I was nineteen so um

10:57

and that's when I stumbled across Cannon

10:59

six so four and I remember thinking, huh, that's

11:02

interesting. You can still it sounds like you

11:04

can still do what st Agnes did back in

11:06

ancient Rome. And you know, but I

11:08

didn't know any consecrated virgins. I never

11:10

really heard of this. So then I told

11:12

the priest that, oh, this is interesting, and he gave

11:14

me a copy of the ritual so the Right of

11:16

Consecration to Life of Virginity, which is the prayer

11:19

for actually consecrating somebody,

11:21

and I read it and instantly I

11:24

even remember the day. It was November

11:26

one, two thousand four, and

11:28

I read it and I just knew. I'm like, okay, this

11:30

is it. It just was so clear to me in that moment.

11:34

It's just everything in the prayers. It just

11:37

it was like a key in a lock. Just it fit

11:39

perfectly for the way I felt called, like every

11:41

little aspect. So

11:43

I was nineteen and we

11:45

went to the archdiocese at

11:47

the time and we were basically I'm

11:50

I was told you're nineteen,

11:52

You're way too young, so no

11:54

way. And there

11:57

was a thought going around that there was a minimum

11:59

age limit was thirty five, and it

12:01

wasn't really the law. It was one

12:04

bishop had an opinion that it should be thirty

12:06

five of them in a magor limit, and that kind

12:08

of just you know, got around and people

12:10

sort of assumed it was law, but it actually wasn't.

12:13

But I was told, okay, well, you know, you come back when you're

12:15

thirty five, and when

12:17

you're nineteen, that is absolutely not what you want to hear.

12:20

That's a long time. So I assumed

12:22

when I was nineteen, okay, well it sounds like the

12:24

churches said no. So I

12:27

assumed, okay, I didn't discern

12:29

this correctly, Let me see what God actually

12:31

wants. So I spent two more years

12:33

visiting more communities, and actually this second

12:36

round, I was much more focused and really

12:39

like not just going where a priest told me to

12:41

check out, but like really reading their materials,

12:44

seeing okay, is this something I can see

12:46

myself being called to? And so I was

12:48

more focused that way, and

12:51

being more focused, I encountered a

12:53

few more communities that I could have really seen myself

12:55

joining, But there was always the sense

12:57

that I it wasn't quite

13:00

it, that God wanted something different, and

13:02

it's it's hard to explain, but it was

13:04

just very clear. So when I was

13:06

twenty two, I I

13:08

was thinking, Okay, well, if this is really going

13:11

to be a no, I need this to be a very,

13:14

very very clear no, so I can set

13:16

this sense that I'm called this aside and then

13:18

and maybe join one of these communities

13:20

with a clear conscience or not conscience,

13:23

but with a more a greater sense of peace

13:25

in my heart and not constantly having this other

13:27

thing in the back of my mind nagging at me. So

13:30

when I was twenty two, I had a meeting with the Vicar

13:32

for religious in the archdioces at the time,

13:34

and I remember starting the meeting

13:37

with him saying, there was a priest, oh,

13:40

well, you know you are kind of young. But

13:42

at the end of the conversation he's like, you know what,

13:45

I think you have a vocation. If we need a dispensation,

13:47

we can talk about that. And of course we didn't need a dispensation.

13:50

So Jenna started the process to become a consecrated

13:53

virgin. She says it was a surprise to her

13:55

parents, but eventually they were supportive.

13:58

The day I was consecrated was January third,

14:00

and my parents wedding anniversaries January seven,

14:03

and my mom was twenty one when she got married. I was

14:05

twenty three and I got consecrated. So it wound

14:07

up working out that I could wear my mother's wedding

14:09

dress. Um, and that was really,

14:11

um, just just a special detail,

14:14

you know, an unimportant detail in the big picture, but

14:16

that was kind of a nice

14:18

symbol to have that day. And

14:21

they've yeah, they've just I think gotten

14:23

more and more supportive as the years go

14:25

on. So at one point I think he still does

14:27

this. My dad had like little business

14:30

cards like printed up with Kennon

14:32

six o four on it on the one side

14:34

on the back that pray for consecrated virgins,

14:37

and he keeps them on him when he travels and

14:39

every time he sees a priest, like if he's traveling and

14:41

goes to a different like traveling for

14:43

work and he goes to different paris, he like hands a priest

14:45

of card and it's like really embarrassing,

14:47

but I can't really be upset, so

14:51

I tell people my parents are like embarrassingly

14:53

supportive. Now. Jenny

14:56

was consecrated in two thousand nine at

14:58

a church near where she grew up, just north

15:00

of New York City. You know, a lot of

15:02

people were very just warm and supportive

15:05

that day, and of course it was a

15:07

big day for me, but I was very touched by that. The

15:10

ceremony feels like this interesting combination

15:13

of a Catholic wedding and the way religious

15:15

sisters professed their vows. At

15:17

one point in the ceremony. Consecrated

15:19

virgins often lie on the floor, belly down

15:22

at the front of the church. Sometimes

15:24

they wear a white wedding dress. They even

15:26

wear a wedding ring. You know, your procession

15:29

kind of with all the priests. You know, they

15:31

come in and it's really

15:33

one really beautiful thing about the ceremony

15:35

of a consecration of virgins. And actually the ceremony

15:38

is very different from a noun making

15:40

vows, and actually you have two

15:42

women with you among consecrated

15:44

virgins. We kind of informally

15:47

called them bridesmaids, but they're attendants, so there.

15:50

I think they're kind of there to make sure you're standing in the right

15:52

place because like it's kind of an overwhelming

15:54

day. And yeah, so

15:56

you're sitting with them in the main

15:58

part of the church and a certain point in

16:00

the mass when you're called forward

16:02

and then you enter into the

16:04

sanctuary, like the part close to the altar.

16:07

So that's a really neat some

16:09

neat isn't the right word. It's really it's a really neat

16:12

symbol of you know, you're

16:15

being called to belong to God's

16:17

exclusively and you're demonstrating

16:19

that by your moving to this more sacred

16:22

part of the church. Do you remember what you were feeling

16:24

when that happened? You

16:26

know when that happened. I remember

16:30

in the whole ceremony around right before

16:32

you're entering into the sanctuary,

16:35

you know, the bishop and the ceremony asks

16:37

you basically asking you

16:39

to state your resolve and you promised to do

16:42

these things, and I remember saying

16:44

I do. And church had good acoustics. I remember

16:46

hearing it, and I remember I had wanted

16:49

to give my life to God since I was twelve,

16:51

so this has been almost half my life at this point, and

16:53

there was a sense of like,

16:55

I can't there's no going back from this now, and

16:59

knowing that I was closing the store, but

17:01

feeling very happy to do it. So

17:04

I knowing that I couldn't go

17:06

back and choose a different path, but doing

17:09

that very joyfully. And

17:12

you know, I, even though I wanted to do this,

17:14

it not marrying was a sacrifice.

17:16

I did experience it that way. But

17:18

I was really very happy to

17:20

give this gift to God.

17:23

It was just a joy to be able to give it. And

17:26

they always say God can't be out on in generosity,

17:28

So it wasn't as one side as I'm

17:30

making it sound, but that was what was going through my mind

17:33

at that moment. That's

17:35

interesting, you know that it did feel

17:38

you felt it sounds like you felt so clearly

17:40

called to this, but it was

17:42

still a decision to make to give

17:44

something up like a part of life. Oh

17:48

absolutely it was. And I

17:52

and I talked to a lot of women who are considering

17:54

this vocation a lot of times, even just through informal

17:57

channels like a priest I know knows somebody,

17:59

And again, everyone has their own walk with the Lord,

18:02

and that can look different for different people. You

18:04

know, God speaks in the circumstances

18:06

of our lives. But if a woman

18:09

doesn't feel that this is a sacrifice,

18:11

I would really discourage her from doing this.

18:13

You know, obviously, if it's a really gut

18:16

wrenching sacrifice that you absolutely can't get over

18:18

or get peace with it. Okay, God's probably not calling

18:20

you to this, But if you don't have a sense that

18:22

you're giving anything up. You know, the

18:24

joy of this vocation and the sacrifice,

18:26

they're not two different things. There two sides of the same

18:29

coin. So if that's not something

18:32

that really a woman feels like applies to her,

18:34

like, if she can't, if it's all sacrifice

18:36

and no joy, or even all joy no sacrifice,

18:39

then I either she doesn't have a call

18:41

to this, which is which is fine because not everybody's

18:44

called to this. This is a relatively unusual call.

18:47

But you know, I even wonder, okay, she even

18:50

doesn't even maybe just need to come to a better understanding

18:52

of this. So yeah, it was

18:55

a very deliberate choice and it was a sacrifice,

18:57

but again, no regrets. What

19:00

are some of the challenges of being a consecrated

19:03

virgin. You know, there's

19:05

a lot of challenges that are I think

19:07

Jenna specific just for my life circumstances,

19:10

and there are challenges in general. And

19:13

one challenge I think as a church,

19:16

as consecrated virgins, were collectively discerning

19:18

this is how do you live a life that's healthy

19:21

and balanced but sufficiently radical

19:24

that your sacrifices makes sense, because

19:26

it doesn't make sense to sacrifice

19:28

the husband and children and family life, which is a

19:30

tremendous sacrifice. And

19:33

then when you sacrifice this, you have this empty

19:35

space in your heart, which the idea is you fill it

19:37

with God. But if you're not filling

19:39

it with God, you're going to fill it with stupid things. So,

19:42

um, like what I

19:45

will kind of a joke. I have a cat,

19:47

I kind of a rescue cat

19:49

I recently adopted, and I was a little worried

19:52

that I'd become like a lady with fifty

19:54

cats and that would be unhealthy. My

19:56

mom said, well, if you have only one cat and you

19:58

don't put her in your Chris his cards, you should

20:00

be Okay. That's

20:03

the that's the border line. I mean, there's

20:05

a lot of different things. I mean, you can fill it

20:07

with really stupid things like not

20:10

that hobbies are bad, but hobbies or

20:12

even like you know, pettiness,

20:16

or you get just too into your

20:18

job or something. I feel like my version

20:20

of that would be binging television. Yes, perfect

20:22

example, That's what I was looking for without

20:26

looking for it. Do you are you? Are You? Do you ever?

20:28

Binge TV? Is that? Yeah?

20:30

Sometimes not?

20:34

Um. I used to when I was in Rome.

20:36

I couldn't watch down to Nabby and I used to binge watch

20:38

that when I come home for the summers. So yeah,

20:41

I'm familiar with that concept. I'm human.

21:04

Jennet Cooper's day to day life is pretty

21:06

similar to any other professionals. She

21:08

works at nine to five as a cannon lawyer

21:10

at the marriage tribunal of her local diocese.

21:13

Part of her job is attacked to couples.

21:16

She examines marriages to determine if a

21:18

marriage can or should be annulled.

21:21

She also answers any cannon law questions that

21:23

come from the parish or from local schools.

21:26

So that's her job. But one

21:28

of the things that really sets her life apart as a

21:30

consecrated virgin is prayer

21:33

and how often she does it. We are

21:35

obligated to pray a certain amount,

21:37

and then you even have extra times

21:39

for private prayer. And that's you

21:41

know, that's to me the most important

21:43

thing I do all day. So that's an absolute

21:46

priority. So for me,

21:48

that looks like I I go to Mass every day

21:51

and unless there's some extraordinary circumstance,

21:54

I mean, I book my flights when I travel

21:56

around, Okay, can I get to Mass on either end? That's

22:00

very, very big priority for me. Jenna

22:02

also praised the liturgy of the hours, their

22:04

prayers from morning, daytime, evening,

22:07

and night. And so that's a series

22:09

of psalms, different ones that have at at different times of

22:11

the day on like a rotating four

22:13

week schedule, so you wound up praying all

22:15

a hundred fifty psalms every month. Jenna

22:18

says that as she gets older, she's

22:20

experiencing a type of joy she didn't expect

22:23

when she was younger in her consecrated life. I

22:25

mean, part of this vocation even

22:28

if you're not you know, obviously we don't have

22:30

natural children, we don't give

22:32

birth physically, but spiritual motherhood

22:34

is a big component. I

22:36

don't know, maybe it sounds like a hokey concept.

22:39

But the idea is, even if you're you're still

22:41

nurturing people, you

22:43

know on a level of their soul, you're you're reading a

22:45

real mother, even if you're not, you

22:48

know, somebody who's given birth.

22:51

And now that I'm I'm not old, but

22:53

older not in my twenties anymore. Um.

22:56

There's been a couple of times when, like

22:59

one of our localminarians asked

23:01

me for prayer, just wanted to talk to me about

23:03

something, and almost feeling like they

23:05

were approaching me in this motherly role and

23:08

very very small little moments and not

23:10

something I sought out. But it's

23:12

a gift to be able to relate to people that

23:14

way. Mm hmm. What

23:17

is it about the concept of virginity

23:19

that is worth preserving

23:21

in this way? So for

23:23

consecrated virgins, it's you're resolving to

23:25

persevere in this virtuous

23:27

state that you've already been persevering in. For

23:30

Catholics, virginity it's it's not just

23:34

like, oh I'm spotless,

23:36

I've I haven't made any mistakes.

23:39

Virginity it's a much more profound concept.

23:42

It's a much richer concept.

23:44

It's full of deep

23:47

theological meaning. On

23:49

a more practical level, I mean, there's healthy

23:51

and unhealthy ways to understand virginity. Like

23:54

I I cringe like with everyone else

23:56

when there's high school chassis talks and they

23:58

compare losing your virginity become used gum

24:00

or something like. Nobody likes that. That's not

24:02

healthy. That certainly wouldn't

24:04

be the church's presentation of virginity.

24:08

You know, on a theological level, virginity

24:10

reflects the nature of the Church, and the Church

24:13

is Christ's bride. So Jesus

24:15

died on the cross for the sake of his

24:18

bride, the Church. So again it's all this this

24:20

mutual love. But we talked about the Church is being a

24:22

virgin, and the Old Testament and

24:25

scriptures, the people of God

24:27

were talked about as a virgin bride to

24:29

God her spouse. So there's

24:31

a lot of imagery with that. But

24:34

what I think is especially relevant today is one

24:36

of my biggest pet peeves ever in

24:39

life is when people talk about early virgin

24:41

martyrs like, oh, it's the patriarchy.

24:43

So this is the exact opposite of

24:45

patriarchy, and the

24:48

ancient world, women were only valued by the

24:50

relationship to a man, so you were really only

24:52

valued as as like if

24:54

you could be a wife to somebody or you know, or God

24:56

forbid, like a slave, being

24:58

a virgin and relating

25:00

to God directly, not I mean

25:03

married women really to God directly, but you

25:05

know, your you could really to God directly. You have

25:07

this human dignity where you could make choices about

25:09

your destiny. You could respond to a call freely,

25:12

and no man had the right to tell you otherwise.

25:15

When you grow up in a society where

25:17

women have dignity, that might not be the first thing on your

25:19

mind when you're choosing virginity as a spirituality,

25:22

but that that is, you know, a very

25:24

important and relevant point.

25:27

I think one thing that

25:29

is really interesting to me too these days

25:31

is in the Catholic Church, the priesthood

25:33

is is male only, and it's always been

25:35

that way and it's not going to change. I'm

25:38

actually fine without on a theological level,

25:40

because the priest suit it's really supposed to be about

25:42

service, not about power. And even

25:45

when there is authority, true authority

25:47

is you know, always about

25:49

service, not just self aggrandizement

25:52

or something. You know, but the priestoos

25:54

all male, And then when I was growing

25:56

up was always oh, but girls can become

25:58

nuns and sisters. But you

26:00

know that's not exactly the same thing because there were

26:02

male religious too, like men can become monks, that's

26:05

basically the equivalent of a nun, but

26:07

consecrated virginity, this vocation,

26:10

this is actually the only state of life in the church

26:12

that's reserved to women, So men

26:15

categorically can't do this. So

26:18

I think it speaks a lot to you

26:21

know, the unique dimity of women that we

26:23

have this role as being an

26:25

icon or an image of the church or reflection of the Church

26:28

and relating to Christ in this very

26:30

privileged way that's that's unique

26:33

to us. So I do find

26:35

that very meaningful for me in my own life.

26:45

Thanks to Jenna Cooper for sharing her story with

26:47

us. You can learn more about her on

26:49

her blog, Sponsa Christie,

26:52

What do you think? Drop us a note at

26:54

the turning at for Cocoa Punch dot com.

26:57

That's r O c O c O pun.

27:01

This episode was written and produced by Andrea

27:03

A. Sway. Our executive producers

27:05

are Jessica Albert and John Parratti at

27:07

Rococo Punch and Getrina Norville

27:09

at iHeart Radio. To see

27:12

a photo from Jenna Cooper's consecration ceremony

27:14

and for more details on this series, follow us

27:16

on Instagram at Rococo Punch. I'm

27:19

America Lands. Thanks for listening.