0:00

Eurovision is here. This

0:04

year's contest gets underway this week in

0:06

Malmö, Sweden. But this year's contest

0:08

comes with a dose of controversy. I'll give you

0:11

one guess as to what people are mad

0:13

about. Yes, correct.

0:16

It's that. Organizers

0:18

of the Eurovision Song Contest say

0:20

they are assessing whether Israel's entry

0:22

breaks the rules of political neutrality.

0:25

I think it's a shame. I think there

0:28

is no way that Israel should

0:30

be able to participate in

0:32

Eurovision. Pro-Palestinian protesters are taking to

0:34

the Swedish streets. More

0:37

than a thousand Swedish artists, including

0:39

Robin, have called for an Israel

0:41

ban. Some European politicians are joining

0:43

them. Charlie Harding from Switched

0:46

On Pop joins us on Today Explained

0:48

to help us figure out if Europe

0:50

can sing its way out of this

0:52

situation. Support

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1:35

Hey, it's Noelle. Before the show starts, I

1:37

want to invite you to take a survey that

1:39

we're running right now. If you

1:41

have a few minutes, we would appreciate

1:44

you going to vox.com/podcast survey and

1:46

telling us what you think. There's also a link

1:48

in the show notes. This

1:52

will really help the show out. So thank you. Today

2:06

I explained

2:08

Sean Ramis from here with a friend of

2:11

the show, host of Switched

2:13

On Pop, musician

2:15

songwriter, professor

2:17

Charlie Harding. Charlie, you're

2:20

a fan of Eurovision, yes? Big

2:23

fan of the Eurovision Song Contest, yes. What

2:27

makes this one different for the people at home? Well,

2:30

this year's Eurovision has been

2:33

embroiled in a controversy. There's

2:35

no way that Israel should be

2:37

able to participate. Many

2:44

countries, broadcasters, participants and fans

2:46

have called for the disqualification

2:48

and boycott of Israel's participation

2:51

because of the ongoing war in Gaza and the

2:54

humanitarian crisis. And

2:56

you might be thinking, Israel, not in Europe, but

2:58

they've actually participated in Eurovision for 50 years. For

3:02

people who don't pay attention to Eurovision,

3:04

Charlie, can you give us the essentials

3:06

here? How did it get started? The

3:08

Eurovision Song Contest is one of the

3:10

biggest international song contests in the world.

3:14

It started

3:18

in the 1950s

3:21

as a post-war institution of

3:25

international cooperation between European

3:28

broadcasters. The Eurovision Song

3:30

Contest is not exclusively a

3:32

European contest. It's actually not

3:34

even a national contest. It's

3:36

a contest of the European

3:38

Broadcasting Union, which is

3:41

an alliance of public broadcasting organizations. It

3:43

represents 56 countries in

3:46

the European broadcasting area,

3:48

which includes parts of

3:50

North Africa and the Middle East. It's

3:53

become one of the most televised non-sporting events

3:55

in the world. Everywhere it seems, but the

3:57

United States where it seems like nobody paid

3:59

attention. That of attention because the event

4:01

is a great deal of fun where

4:04

each country smith a singer or group

4:06

of singers or six people to sing

4:08

a live new original song no longer

4:11

than three minutes frequently song in English.

4:13

For broad musical appeal, you're all kinds

4:15

of Europe half. Was

4:24

a fluke Traditions a lotta kids

4:26

are and then all of the

4:28

different countries have panel of judges

4:30

and a voting public The decide

4:32

on the best song of the

4:34

year and the winning song and

4:36

winning country gets to host the

4:38

next year's competition. Can

4:44

you give us some advise your visions? Greatest hits?

4:46

I mean certainly. We have heard of some of

4:48

the artist who have come out of this competition.

4:50

Some of the songs even. Yeah.

4:52

I mean, there's a lot of

4:54

just mostly national, burgeoning popstars all

4:57

around or your vision participants, but

4:59

big names he might have heard

5:01

of. Ah, who Yoga atheists was

5:04

in the Nineteen Seventy competition representing

5:06

Spain. Probably

5:14

the biggest of all time

5:16

was Nineteen Seventy Four when

5:18

Olivia Newton John competed and

5:20

Arba one for the song

5:22

waterloo. Celine.

5:35

Dion actually has participated as well and

5:37

eighteen eighty eight she represented Switzerland because

5:39

strangely you actually don't have to be

5:41

from the country of origin to represent

5:43

it. Weird and are more more recently

5:46

slow writer actually was under twenty twenty

5:48

one competition representing the Marino. and

5:56

i gotta say some of the world's the

5:58

song writers have also written songs for the

6:00

competition Diane Warren, Andrew Lloyd Webber, Tony

6:03

Iommi of Black Sabbath, and Guy Manuel

6:05

from Daft Punk have all contributed music

6:07

to the competition. Who are the

6:09

front runners in 2024? My

6:12

favorite time of year is Eurovision in pop

6:14

music because I don't do sports and this

6:17

is my sporting event. And

6:19

actually bookies also look at this as a sport.

6:21

You can bet on who's going to win. And

6:23

if we look at the current bookies in

6:26

the top three, Croatia,

6:28

as of this moment, has a

6:31

23 percent chance of winning with

6:33

their song, Rim Tim Tagitim by

6:35

the artist Baby Lasagna, a

6:37

kitsch song about economic

6:39

depravity that is causing

6:42

youth emigration in Croatia. Wow.

6:45

I'm a big boy now, I'm

6:47

going away in a social bank now. I

6:54

mean, is that not amazing? It

7:04

sounds like Ace of Base meets Ramstein. Yeah,

7:06

there's even a little bit of Linkin Park

7:08

going on in it too. Oh,

7:10

there you go. Rest

7:17

in peace, Chester. I know. And

7:20

then at number two, we've got Switzerland. Their

7:23

song is called The Code. The artist

7:25

is Nemo. And it's all about breaking

7:27

through gender binaries. Welcome

7:29

to the show,

7:32

let everybody know. And I'm

7:34

playing the game. I break out

7:36

of the chains. You better fucking

7:38

love, I'm forever the cause. Wow.

7:43

Amazing. Epic.

7:53

Powerful, right? I

7:56

hope that would. I mean, I've only

7:58

heard two songs. Yeah. Can I

8:00

give you one more? Please. Ukraine,

8:03

who won in 2022, has a probably the best rap

8:05

song ever written about

8:08

Mother Teresa and

8:11

Mother Mary. It's from... Is

8:14

this the only rap song written

8:16

about Mother Mary and Mother Teresa?

8:19

Probably and we should listen to it. Let

8:21

me decide the cross first. Mother Teresa, you

8:23

are the best. Mother Teresa,

8:25

you are the best. Mother

8:27

Teresa, you are the best. Wow.

8:32

She was the best. Yeah.

8:54

So this controversy really takes off

8:56

when Israel submitted a song to the

8:58

competition called

9:04

October Rain, with lyrics

9:06

making not veiled allusions

9:09

to the October 7th attack on

9:11

Israel by Hamas, including lyrics about

9:13

the massacre at a music festival

9:15

and metaphors of fallen

9:18

IDF soldiers. And

9:20

they put the song out. Eurovision

9:22

has really strict rules, well, some would

9:24

say not so strict, about

9:27

no politics. And so

9:29

the EBU rejects the song.

9:32

And Israel's broadcaster says, no, we're

9:34

not going to change these lyrics.

9:37

This is our submission. And

9:40

thousands of musicians around the world

9:42

start signing petitions from Sweden, Iceland,

9:44

Denmark, all over the place, asking

9:47

for Israel to be disqualified. And

9:49

it just escalates and escalates and escalates. OK,

9:51

so how do they change this

9:53

song to appease Eurovision? So the

9:56

original lyrics of the song October

9:58

Rain have these not

10:00

very subtle allusions to the conflict. The

10:02

opening line is, those that write

10:05

history stand with me. A call

10:07

to stand up alongside

10:10

Israel. The updated

10:12

lyrics in the song, Hurricane, are

10:15

I ride my symphony, play with

10:17

me We've gone from those that

10:19

write history stand with me, writer

10:21

of my symphony, play with me.

10:23

So they maintain the prosody, the

10:25

rhyme scheme, October rain, even rhymes

10:27

with hurricane. They

10:30

later on in the original have a line

10:32

that says, and I promise you that never

10:34

again, I'm still wet from this October rain,

10:36

a nod to the Holocaust and

10:38

October rain, of course, pointing to the

10:41

attack in October. They changed to

10:43

you. How

10:59

did Israelis feel about changing

11:02

the lyrics to the song, changing the message of

11:04

the song? How did the musicians

11:06

behind the song feel about that? I

11:09

think that the song and its reception

11:11

in Israel is as politically divided as

11:13

the country. Despite these

11:15

changes, many Israelis are supporting their contestant,

11:18

Eden Golan, who will sing the song

11:20

at this year's contest. Do

11:22

these updates appease Eurovision

11:24

and the nations who

11:27

are upset about Israel's

11:29

participation? Yes and no. So

11:32

far, there have been lots

11:34

of threats of countries pulling out, but

11:37

none actually have. It seems as though the show

11:39

is going to go on as usual. Israel is,

11:42

as of today,

11:45

absolutely participating in the show, but

11:48

calls for protests have risen.

11:50

You're not supposed to,

11:52

as a participant, make political statements,

11:55

but artists from Ireland, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Switzerland,

11:57

and the way they're doing it, they're not going

11:59

to have released a

12:01

joint statement making a call for peace,

12:04

a ceasefire, return of hostages, and

12:06

denouncing anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. The

12:10

Irish artist Bambi Thug went further to

12:12

say that as an Irish person with

12:14

a shared history of occupation and a

12:16

queer individual, I cannot and

12:18

will not remain silent. And

12:21

goes on to say that they are a

12:23

pro-Palestinian voice in the contest and that the

12:25

contest shouldn't be stopped. And as of today,

12:27

it does seem as though there's sort of

12:29

no formal change to the competition. The

12:36

host country, Sweden, is

12:38

bringing in extra police forces

12:40

from Denmark and Norway to

12:43

go into Melmo, a city of just 360,000 people

12:45

who are expecting 100,000 folks to show up and

12:51

protests are expected. The country

12:53

has raised their threat level to a

12:55

four out of five and

12:58

they are hoping that the song contest goes

13:00

on without a hitch. Marley

13:10

Harding, switched on pop as the

13:12

podcast. Wouldn't you know they've got an

13:14

episode breaking down this year's Eurovision bots

13:16

waiting for you in their feed right

13:18

now. When we are back on today,

13:20

explain the long political history of this

13:23

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you get your podcasts. Today

16:04

explained Tess Megenson writes

16:07

about European history, including

16:09

Eurovision history, one

16:11

time she did so for the Washington

16:13

Post. And the takeaway from her writing

16:15

is that politics at Eurovision is nothing

16:17

new. Take the 90s, for

16:19

example. I would argue the 1990s are actually

16:22

some of the most political years of the

16:24

contest. And this actually isn't always a bad

16:26

thing. As soon as you

16:28

have the Eastern European countries start joining, hosts

16:30

are talking about, welcome to the rest of

16:33

Europe, and now we're finally unified, and you

16:35

have all these songs about peace and unity

16:37

and breaking down walls. And

16:47

some of these do quite well in the contest, some

16:49

of them don't. So in 1990, which is

16:51

actually the first competition held in Eastern Europe,

16:53

called Telden Zagreb, the

16:55

winning entries Italy with in Siamme 1992.

17:14

That's kind of one of the big ones that we

17:17

see and obviously gets a very good reception and

17:19

wins the competition. Tonight,

17:24

tonight, you

17:27

love. So

17:30

it is a really beautiful time in the contest,

17:32

but then also of course in the 90s

17:34

you have the Yugoslav War. The fragile peace

17:36

in Yugoslavia is more fragile than ever. And

17:39

this is the first time that we actually

17:41

see a country banned from the competition. When

17:44

the Yugoslav War begins in Bosnia,

17:46

Yugoslavia is banned from the contest

17:48

shortly after the 1992 competition. This

17:52

is because of the siege of Sarajevo, which is when

17:55

what remains of Yugoslavia occupies the city and

17:57

puts it under siege. I

18:00

think this is not the war, it's the genocide. I

18:03

think we all face this is

18:05

a genocide. Sarajev is

18:07

dying. So this means

18:09

we and UCU and sanctions come against

18:11

Yugoslavia and Bosnia is actually able to

18:14

participate but Yugoslavia cannot. This

18:21

also plays out in the Eurovision Song

18:23

Contest because they're still able to vote

18:25

in the contest. We'll now go to

18:27

Sarajevo in Bosnia, head for governor. So

18:30

they actually call into the contest while

18:32

under siege. Wow. Good evening Sarajevo, may

18:34

we have your vote to seize? And

18:36

the phone line initially disconnects and it

18:38

goes dead and there's just this silence

18:40

that falls over the audience. Soon

18:45

they're able to reconnect. Hello

18:47

Sarajevo, we're here. And

18:53

this loud applause and cheering from the audience

18:55

as they're able to give their points to

18:57

the contest and it's such a beautiful moment.

19:00

Amazing. I

19:06

watched it, I'm shedding tears watching it,

19:08

right? It's a really

19:10

beautiful moment of like solidarity for people

19:12

who were at war and under occupation.

19:15

And it's something that, you know, even though it's

19:17

a very political moment, it's quite a beautiful moment

19:19

in the contest history. These

19:32

political moments we're talking about, the fall, the

19:34

Berlin Wall, the fall of communism, the genocide

19:37

in Bosnia, they all happened

19:40

on the continent of Europe. But

19:43

here now in 2024, we've got

19:45

this conflict, this controversy, these

19:47

calls for a boycott that relate

19:49

to something happening in the Middle

19:51

East. Is there a precedent for

19:53

something like that at Eurovision? Yeah,

19:56

boycotts in Eurovision are almost as

19:58

old as the contest. So

20:01

we start seeing them in the 1970s. Tanks

20:04

of the Turkish army on the outskirts

20:06

of Famagusta are about to complete their

20:08

victory in Cyprus. 1975,

20:11

Turkey invades Cyprus in Greece boycotts the

20:13

contest. The

20:20

following year, Greece submits a

20:22

song that is a

20:24

very anti-war song and clearly referencing

20:27

Turkey's presence in Cyprus and Turkey

20:29

boycotts the contest. And

20:34

then of course Russia.

20:44

The European Broadcasting Union has banned

20:47

Russia from participating in this year's

20:49

Eurovision Song Contest. Russia is the big one

20:51

that you see a lot in the conversation because

20:53

of its invasion of Ukraine and of course it

20:55

was finally banned from the competition in 2022. So

20:59

you're making it sound like it's kind of par

21:01

for the course to have this kind of level

21:03

of controversy and calls for

21:05

boycotts and tensions between nations

21:08

at Eurovision. Does that make this

21:10

current controversy less exceptional?

21:15

Not necessarily. I think there's also

21:17

been a long history and unique

21:19

history with Israel's participation in the

21:22

contest as the first non-European country

21:24

to participate in the contest. It's

21:27

also had relative success since

21:29

it's joined. It's won the contest four times

21:31

and hosted it three times. And

21:34

all the way back in 1978, we start

21:36

seeing these controversies arise with Israel's

21:39

participation. In

21:43

1978, they actually won the competition.

21:46

Well that's it. This is our Israel

21:48

with song number 18 that is our

21:51

Cohen and Alpha Beta. of

22:00

the EBU, although not participating in the contest,

22:02

they don't air the Israel entry. And when

22:04

it becomes clear Israel is going to win

22:07

the contest, they cut the broadcast short and

22:10

announce Belgium as the winner in Jordan.

22:13

What? They just lied? Yep,

22:15

they just fully lied to people in Jordan,

22:18

said Belgium had won the contest. I

22:20

don't know when they found out that wasn't true. When

22:23

they got Wikipedia. Yeah, before

22:25

pre-internet, it was a lot easier to

22:27

get away with that sort of thing.

22:30

Wow, wow. How does Eurovision

22:34

typically handle the

22:37

boycotts and the tensions between these

22:39

nations? Not very well. Obviously,

22:42

they officially market themselves as an

22:44

apolitical contest. So this means that

22:47

when politics enter the contest, they

22:49

are not happy about it. One

22:52

kind of fun example is in

22:54

2015, they introduced this, what they

22:56

called anti-booing technology, sound-reducing

22:58

technology. So you couldn't

23:01

hear the crowd booing the Russian

23:03

entry during the contest. All

23:06

right, ready? 12

23:09

points, go to Russia. No,

23:12

I think. Multiply

23:15

this. I

23:18

don't think it's been used since then, but I wouldn't

23:20

be surprised if they use a similar thing this year.

23:23

And another thing is fines. They do really

23:25

like to fine their members. So

23:27

in 2019, when Israel hosted

23:29

the contest, there was obviously large calls

23:32

to boycott to move the contest out

23:34

of Israel. And

23:36

the Icelandic performers actually

23:39

held up Palestinian flags. Well,

23:41

we of course hope to see an

23:43

end to the occupation as soon as

23:45

possible and that peace will come.

23:48

We are hopeful. And the Icelandic

23:50

broadcaster ended up getting a huge fine from

23:52

the EBU for doing that. Do

23:54

you think your vision this year will

23:57

end up transcending our current

23:59

geopolitical There

24:01

are a couple signs we

24:04

can look for to see

24:06

how Europeans are reacting to

24:08

Israel's participation. The first is

24:10

going to be the live audience reaction. This

24:13

is going to be more difficult for us to

24:15

see as viewers. We're probably going to have to

24:17

rely on things like social media and journalists on

24:19

the ground to hear how the audience is reacting

24:22

to Israel participating. But we're also

24:24

going to see this maybe with the other

24:26

performers. If they say wave Palestinian flags like

24:28

we saw in 2019, a second thing, of

24:30

course, is a popular vote. Will

24:33

people vote for Israel? Will

24:36

this be maybe a protest vote against

24:38

them? The way we can see this

24:40

is if there's a big difference between the

24:42

jury vote for Israel and the popular

24:44

vote, that's probably a sign that people

24:46

are not voting for Israel because they

24:48

don't agree with what they're doing in

24:50

Gaza. And then the third thing to

24:52

see is viewership, obviously. So if the

24:54

boycott is effective, there'll probably be a

24:56

stark decline in viewership in certain countries.

24:58

Obviously, there's other factors at play here.

25:01

So if a country's participant doesn't make

25:03

the finals, there could be a decline in

25:05

viewership because of that. But if we see

25:07

a significant decline, I would probably argue that

25:09

is the boycott and it's showing how effective it

25:11

can be. Well,

25:19

I guess we're going to have to watch to find

25:21

out. Yeah. Thanks so much, Tess. Thank

25:23

you. Tess Meagansen,

25:25

historian, the University of North

25:27

Carolina at Chapel Hill. Halima

25:44

Shah made the show today. She had

25:46

help from Matthew Collette's Patrick Boyd, Laura

25:49

Bullard and Amanda Llewelyn. Tomorrow

25:51

on Today Explained, we'll have another

25:53

song contest, less political, more petty,

25:56

less European, but still international.

26:00

sentry.